Happiness in Marriage

[Nienna]

Thought this was a good article...

http://www.breakpoint.org/listingarticle.asp?ID=8004

[midcan5]

This was interesting to me as I have discussed happiness often as many today feel happiness (aka self interest) is the primary motivating value in our behavior. Some have even asked me to define an activity that does not at its root have my personal happiness as its cause. Since I have been married forever I think I know a bit about this topic. Here's my reply to query above.

There are a lot of things each of us do that are not strictly in our self interest. I think the problem you have is you assume because the actor (me,I) is part of the act, all actions must reflect back on me,I. I need to define self interest again to make my argument.

Feeling better is not self interest and often if you help someone you do not always feel better. In your own words you contradict self interest and make every actions about how 'I' feel. Self interest - what each of us has the most reason to do is best for himself; carried to its extreme one would never do what is self denying. (Parfit's definition in Reasons and Persons.)

examples:

Suppose two people have to make a single decision, either can do it, one or the other can do, but both can't do it. One has to act not in their self interest if they agree that only one can do the act. I assume in this argument equality of all aspects. This can happen in so simple an action as "I'll drive you home."

John works long hours. John is constantly tired and rundown. He need for his long term health to work less hours. John's son needs special care. The long hours pay for that care. John continues to work long hours.

On a rainy night a stranger asked X for help, X is a atheist free thinker, X gives the man money for food. (This type of example is repeated often in life. I have often helped jump or push cars for instance.)

Maria loves Tony, they have a child, Tony is jealous, Maria wants badly to stay married, Maria finally decides Tony Jr. needs to be away from his father. Maria leaves Tony.


Q "I would think that being responsible and moral is in your own self interest..."

A Why if self interest is the motivating factor? You can't think of a time that would not be true?

Q "Tell me one time you made a decision and you purposely choose a route that will make you knowingly unhappy."

A My wife loves to shop, she is a sharp dresser and still gets hit on. But if you think I like standing in macy's or kohl's while she wanders through the clothing racks you are crazy - but I do it - sometimes.


discussion is here if you need a sedative some night and starts 4/30/07
http://fullpolitics.com/viewthread.php?tid=26136


Infantile love follows the principle: "I love because I am loved."
Mature love follows the principle: "I am loved because I love."
Immature love says: "I love you because I need you."
Mature love says: "I need you because I love you."

Erich Fromm

[darin]

I sorta thing Godless folk are so focused on self and "happiness" because they think this life is all they have. They think it's their 'one chance' at existence.

Midcan? Most of your reply make little sense to me - I completely miss the point you're going for.

[midcan5]

Midcan? Most of your reply make little sense to me - I completely miss the point you're going for.

The original piece implies our (my) desire for happiness is a major cause of trouble in marriage etc, happiness is about doing what makes us (me) happy, self interest in other words. The author is right if only what suits me and makes me happy guides my actions. My post was about whether self interest is the only motivating factor in happiness. Consider if it were, then all marriages would have lots of unhappiness -lol. And the author seems to say that in so many words. This is complicated and hard to easily nail down.

[darin]

I think most marriages DO have lots of unhappiness. I'd say just about everybody 'settles'.

[Trinity]

Thought this was a good article...

http://www.breakpoint.org/listingarticle.asp?ID=8004


Oh my....... is this who I think it is........you should call me. I am off work today.:coffee:

[actsnoblemartin]

I dont believe I can have happiness and marriage, which is why ill always be single (not married) :laugh2:

[hjmick]

What have you learned about marriage?

"Have low expectations and you will be OK." - Jimmy Buffett

[actsnoblemartin]

only negative stuff really, divorce, cheating, murder, violence, arguing, money problems,

maybe its my fault, for being so negative myself

or my disabilities are part of it, i dont know

but excellent post on your part none the less :)


What have you learned about marriage?

"Have low expectations and you will be OK." - Jimmy Buffett

[hjmick]

What do I know about marriage…

My first marriage failed. For a myriad of reasons. We were too young when we married, over a period of a few years, things changed. We grew, separately. We had a child, while I do not and never would blame my oldest daughter for the failure, I do blame my ex-wife’s inability to focus on more than the child. She was unable to share herself with the two of us and I was unable to explain my needs successfully. I was as much to blame for the demise of that marriage as my ex. To her credit, the ex did a spectacular job raising our daughter, the credit owed me is minimal as I was a weekend dad. She is beautiful, confident, funny, and smart. By way of evidence to her intelligence I offer four “A”-s last semester at our local Cal State facility. What I learned from this failed attempt at happiness is simple: It takes two to make a marriage work. It takes compromise and acceptance. It takes communication.

The relationship in between my marriages, though it did result in another daughter, taught me nothing. That one was all on her, and I’m not just saying that.

For eleven years I have been married, each year better than the last with no signs of that pattern changing. I have never been happier, and, as far as I can tell, neither has she. Why is this one different? Why does it work? As near as I can figure it is because we were very, very good friends for a few years before we fell in love. We knew each other quite well; we knew each other’s secrets, quirks, habits, and personalities. We talk. We tell each other what we’re thinking, how we’re feeling, and what we want. We share similar values; we have the similar hopes and goals. We like each other. She makes me a better person.

Bottom line, to succeed in a marriage, you must communicate. It helps if you marry your best friend. I got lucky. Too few do.

[Roomy]

Allowing each other room to breathe is the secret to a happy marriage providing the other prerequisites are in place...lust, friendship, trust, love, relative financial security, kids reaching a certain age, dinner on the table and beer.

[5stringJeff]

Excellent article. Marriage does have selflessness at its roots.

[Yurt]

I think most marriages DO have lots of unhappiness. I'd say just about everybody 'settles'.

isn't settling about "self"...

what midcan was talking about... i disagree with him on almost everything, but he raised interesting point(s) ... i think he misses the boat because he discounts spiritual things and looks only to humanistic or relative morality for answers. i am actually interested (a bit shocked given i think he is an idiot, but me thinks he is educated in psychology or someting close) in his opinion on those who believe marital happiness comes not from self, but from God. supposing God does not exist, then the belief in God must be an external or internal factor that offers a well-being, a sense of "this thing/marriage is greater than I." midcan offered no answers, nor do i expect any, his questions are very good and that is all i ask.

it is an interesting concept - marriage. my thoughts are known about manmade legal certificates called "marriage." marriage in terms of spiritual sense are about a man becoming ONE with a woman. this was known thousands of years before Christ came to earth as the messiah, yet, He still spoke to us about being ONE.

this "ONE" is what i have yet to grasp, even by a thread. peripherally, it makes sense, personally, it does not, because self rises up. Christ, the only person able, lost self, that, IMO, must be the answer. i think.




What do I know about marriage…

My first marriage failed. For a myriad of reasons. We were too young when we married, over a period of a few years, things changed. We grew, separately. We had a child, while I do not and never would blame my oldest daughter for the failure, I do blame my ex-wife’s inability to focus on more than the child. She was unable to share herself with the two of us and I was unable to explain my needs successfully. I was as much to blame for the demise of that marriage as my ex. To her credit, the ex did a spectacular job raising our daughter, the credit owed me is minimal as I was a weekend dad. She is beautiful, confident, funny, and smart. By way of evidence to her intelligence I offer four “A”-s last semester at our local Cal State facility. What I learned from this failed attempt at happiness is simple: It takes two to make a marriage work. It takes compromise and acceptance. It takes communication.

The relationship in between my marriages, though it did result in another daughter, taught me nothing. That one was all on her, and I’m not just saying that.

For eleven years I have been married, each year better than the last with no signs of that pattern changing. I have never been happier, and, as far as I can tell, neither has she. Why is this one different? Why does it work? As near as I can figure it is because we were very, very good friends for a few years before we fell in love. We knew each other quite well; we knew each other’s secrets, quirks, habits, and personalities. We talk. We tell each other what we’re thinking, how we’re feeling, and what we want. We share similar values; we have the similar hopes and goals. We like each other. She makes me a better person.

Bottom line, to succeed in a marriage, you must communicate. It helps if you marry your best friend. I got lucky. Too few do.

you are a deep individual. it is too bad we did hook up before i left SLO...do you come this way? if not, i will still be heading south, and who knows, i may move back....

[hjmick]

Excellent article. Marriage does have selflessness at its roots.

There is a good deal of merit to this statement. I can safely say that there is nothing, absolutely nothing I wouldn't do for my wife. She has but to ask.


isn't settling about "self"...

what midcan was talking about... i disagree with him on almost everything, but he raised interesting point(s) ... i think he misses the boat because he discounts spiritual things and looks only to humanistic or relative morality for answers. i am actually interested (a bit shocked given i think he is an idiot, but me thinks he is educated in psychology or someting close) in his opinion on those who believe marital happiness comes not from self, but from God. supposing God does not exist, then the belief in God must be an external or internal factor that offers a well-being, a sense of "this thing/marriage is greater than I." midcan offered no answers, nor do i expect any, his questions are very good and that is all i ask.

it is an interesting concept - marriage. my thoughts are known about manmade legal certificates called "marriage." marriage in terms of spiritual sense are about a man becoming ONE with a woman. this was known thousands of years before Christ came to earth as the messiah, yet, He still spoke to us about being ONE.

this "ONE" is what i have yet to grasp, even by a thread. peripherally, it makes sense, personally, it does not, because self rises up. Christ, the only person able, lost self, that, IMO, must be the answer. i think.

This is interesting to me, perhaps especially so since I do not consider myself a "spiritual" person. The idea of two people becoming one strikes a chord with me. When explaining the relationship my wife and I share, I frequently explain that she is my other half, that because of her I feel complete. She is, quite literally my better half. She makes the same claims about me. I am sure that these feelings are great contributors to the success and happiness we share in our relationship.



you are a deep individual. it is too bad we did hook up before i left SLO...do you come this way? if not, i will still be heading south, and who knows, i may move back....

Thank you for the kind words, though I am not sure how deep I might be. There certain topics which strike certain chords, my love for my wife and the happiness I have found being one of them. The simple truth is, I really do like her. You know how people say, "I thought I knew what love was, then I met you?" Well, that's me. There is no one I would rather spend time with, it's fun.

As for getting up north, not as often as I used to, and not as often as I'd like to. Next time you find yourself heading south, drop a line and we'll make it a point to meet and pop a top or two. I'll do the same should my travels take to points north.

[Dilloduck]

Thought this was a good article...

http://www.breakpoint.org/listingarticle.asp?ID=8004

A plan is mentioned in the article that very plainly instructs women to submit to the man in a marriage. Is this a cornerstone in making a marriage "holy" which the article suggests should be the goal as opposed to happiness ?

[Said1]

Life has a lot to do with doing things you don't wantt to do......unless your mom does it all for you.

In my opinion, one of the biggest causes of unhappieness in an otherwise normal marriage (I use the 'normal' word very losely) is trying to find happieness through someone else ie spouse.