Soldiers risk ruin while awaiting benefit checks

[LiberalNation]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080616/ap_on_re_us/waiting_wounded;_ylt=At1N4Iwo0ddQGbSMQ2NdyetvzwcF

SAN ANTONIO - His lifelong dream of becoming a soldier had, in the end, come to this for Isaac Stevens: 28, penniless, in a wheelchair, fending off the sexual advances of another man in a homeless shelter.

Stevens' descent from Army private first-class, 3rd Infantry Division, 11 Bravo Company, began in 2005 — not in battle, since he was never sent off to Iraq or Afghanistan, but with a headfirst fall over a wall on the obstacle course at Fort Benning, Ga. He suffered a head injury and spinal damage.

The injury alone didn't put him in a homeless shelter. Instead, it was military bureaucracy — specifically, the way injured soldiers are discharged on just a fraction of their salary and then forced to wait six to nine months, and sometimes even more than a year, before their full disability payments begin to flow.

"When I got out, I hate to say it, but man, that was it. Everybody just kind of washed their hands of me, and it was like, `OK, you're on your own,'" said Stevens, who was discharged in November and was in a shelter by February. He has since moved into a temporary San Antonio apartment with help from Operation Homefront, a nonprofit organization.

Nearly 20,000 disabled soldiers were discharged in the past two fiscal years, and lawmakers, veterans' advocates and others say thousands could be facing financial ruin while they wait for their claims to be processed and their benefits to come through.

[darin]

...what about all the money he got paid while in? Didn't he save anything? Where's his family? Why doesn't he get another job?

however, this is just one painful example of how the Gov't really only does a couple things well - Defend us and fix potholes. Folks calling for National Healthcare need to look long and hard at the VA system as something which will allow things like this to happen because it just does.

[rppearso]

This is just another example of the military chewing people up and spitting them out. I was not about to be chewed up. The miltiary pays you squat, I make more in a month than an E-4 makes in 3-4 months even if he did save money how the hell is he suppost to live on that pitance. The military does not care, and these are the things that always get swept under the rug, I am starting to truely believe that people in the miltiary are callious heartless thugs, they talk the talk but when shit goes awry they start to sweeping and justifying because the miltiary can never be wrong :lame2:

By staying in the miltiary you are showing your support for the system and everything that happens in that system and that is the bottom line.

[Nukeman]

This is just another example of the military chewing people up and spitting them out. I was not about to be chewed up. The miltiary pays you squat, I make more in a month than an E-4 makes in 3-4 months even if he did save money how the hell is he suppost to live on that pitance. The military does not care, and these are the things that always get swept under the rug, I am starting to truely believe that people in the miltiary are callious heartless thugs, they talk the talk but when shit goes awry they start to sweeping and justifying because the miltiary can never be wrong :lame2:

By staying in the miltiary you are showing your support for the system and everything that happens in that system and that is the bottom line.

In your narrow minded view of the military IT CAN NEVER BE RIGHT! You are a broken record that just keeps repeating the same thing over and over.

I knew that when LN posted this YOU would be all over it with your SAME spiel. Get a new line would you????

[darin]

FWIW, E4's can make $2135/month, Plus $1200/month (Tax Free) housing Allowance Pay (Tacoma, WA rate), Plus $295 (tax free) for substinence.

So....$3600/month (and only 2/3 is taxed while home station)...43,000 per year?

that's not Squat. That aint half bad :)

[rppearso]

FWIW, E4's can make $2135/month, Plus $1200/month (Tax Free) housing Allowance Pay (Tacoma, WA rate), Plus $295 (tax free) for substinence.

So....$3600/month (and only 2/3 is taxed while home station)...43,000 per year?

that's not Squat. That aint half bad :)

Not when you are handicap for months.

[rppearso]

In your narrow minded view of the military IT CAN NEVER BE RIGHT! You are a broken record that just keeps repeating the same thing over and over.

I knew that when LN posted this YOU would be all over it with your SAME spiel. Get a new line would you????

What would you have me say, wow that is awesome that the military was directly responsible for his debilitating injury and kicked him to the curve, hooorah. This is not an isolated incident, and the military does very very little to deal with cases like this, if the civilian leadership put on the iorn glove and dealt swiftly with the sgts and officers responsible for this my tune would change, but as it stands this is just business as usual. You should be seeing sweeping demotions and jail sentences for all the crap that goes on in the military. Military officers and sgts are just like bureaucrats, they are entrenched in the system until they retire and it takes extreme deplorable behavior to dethrone them, even when that marine drill sgt killed that recruit he lost a strip and I think he may have lost his drill sgt status, he should have been persecuted for murder, but he was probably a good ole boy and the recruit was some sub human bum. The military always finds some lame way to justify it until it becomes so bad they can no longer protect one of there good ole boys and have to cut him loose, but it has to get pretty bad before that happens

[darin]

Not when you are handicap for months.

so, I successfully countered your claim that E4s don't make squat and you come up with something that really has nothing to do with anything. Who was handicapped for months? Why would a soldier stop getting paid while handicapped? Wha??

You need to learn how to multiple-quote..

[Psychoblues]

Some just don't get and others will never get it. They're called Republicans.

[rppearso]

so, I successfully countered your claim that E4s don't make squat and you come up with something that really has nothing to do with anything. Who was handicapped for months? Why would a soldier stop getting paid while handicapped? Wha??

You need to learn how to multiple-quote..

I agree that if he had remained in E-4 pay can make ends meet but the fact is he was med discharged and E-4 is not enough to save up and survive on for months and months and months.

[AFbombloader]

I agree that if he had remained in E-4 pay can make ends meet but the fact is he was med discharged and E-4 is not enough to save up and survive on for months and months and months.

The article pretty plainly states that the majority of the blame here falls on the VA. Yes the Army initially was responsible, but after the first few months it became a VA issue. You should make sure you are slinging your crap at the correct target.

AF:salute:

[darin]

I agree that if he had remained in E-4 pay can make ends meet but the fact is he was med discharged and E-4 is not enough to save up and survive on for months and months and months.

That's a load of crap. E4 Pay is PLENTY - in fact, the dude EATS free. I bet there are E4's with more money in the bank than I make in a year. If he CHOSE not to save, that's on him.

You just like making the Military the enemy.

[Hagbard Celine]

The whole army pay system is screwed up. My mom went almost two months without pay after she switched units and the army wouldn't pay her because there was a paperwork mixup due to them not being able to get her orders signed by this one Colonel's office. It's a bureacratic nightmare.
She even works in veteran's affairs, basically doling-out benefits to all those who need them, so she knows the system fairly well and she still went almost two months without pay. She started to worry at one point because bill collectors started calling her everyday. She couldn't even buy groceries.
If that can happen to her, I can only imagine what kinds of situations some of the enlisted guys can get into with their pay. The system is totally in need of reform.

[AFbombloader]

The whole army pay system is screwed up. My mom went almost two months without pay after she switched units and the army wouldn't pay her because there was a paperwork mixup due to them not being able to get her orders signed by this one Colonel's office. It's a bureacratic nightmare.

I'm sure no private sector company ever messed up someone's pay.

AF:salute:

[Hagbard Celine]

I'm sure no private sector company ever messed up someone's pay.

AF:salute:

Yeah right. :rolleyes:

Sorry. I violated the "never say anything negative about the military" rule. My bad. Didn't mean to offend anyone's delicate sensibilities. I hope I didn't give you the vapors. :poke:

[hjmick]

The whole army pay system is screwed up. My mom went almost two months without pay after she switched units and the army wouldn't pay her because there was a paperwork mixup due to them not being able to get her orders signed by this one Colonel's office. It's a bureacratic nightmare.


Well then, by all means let's turn control of the nation's oil industry and health care over to the federal government. Perhaps in another 232 years they'll have worked out the kinks. :coffee:

[AFbombloader]

Yeah right. :rolleyes:

Sorry. I violated the "never say anything negative about the military" rule. My bad. Didn't mean to offend anyone's delicate sensibilities. I hope I didn't give you the vapors. :poke:

You can say what you wish about the military. It won't make me feel bad one bit. If you took the entire miliraty, active + dod civilian, you have the largest company in the world. There are going to be clerical errors. Pay is going to be screwed up sometimes. The wrong parts are going to be ordered sometimes. It takes a lot to make it run. I am sorry your Mom had the problem she had. But they correced it and she did get back pay right? I know the collectors don't care about that. She also had avenues to go to for assistance.

One question, is my point still valid?

AF:salute:

[darin]

The whole army pay system is screwed up. My mom went almost two months without pay after she switched units and the army wouldn't pay her because there was a paperwork mixup due to them not being able to get her orders signed by this one Colonel's office. It's a bureacratic nightmare.
She even works in veteran's affairs, basically doling-out benefits to all those who need them, so she knows the system fairly well and she still went almost two months without pay. She started to worry at one point because bill collectors started calling her everyday. She couldn't even buy groceries.
If that can happen to her, I can only imagine what kinds of situations some of the enlisted guys can get into with their pay. The system is totally in need of reform.

...imagine a national health care system...talk about a nightmare.


BUT - re: Army Pay/Defense Pay.

Could it be better? Yup. "Totally in need of reform" - to what? How so? Where or how would you start?

The pay system works. Not always perfectly, but it works.

[5stringJeff]

...imagine a national health care system...talk about a nightmare.


BUT - re: Army Pay/Defense Pay.

Could it be better? Yup. "Totally in need of reform" - to what? How so? Where or how would you start?

The pay system works. Not always perfectly, but it works.

Word.

[actsnoblemartin]

double word :laugh2:

:clap:


...imagine a national health care system...talk about a nightmare.


BUT - re: Army Pay/Defense Pay.

Could it be better? Yup. "Totally in need of reform" - to what? How so? Where or how would you start?

The pay system works. Not always perfectly, but it works.

[rppearso]

I'm sure no private sector company ever messed up someone's pay.

AF:salute:

in my experence civilian companies never let pay issues slide for that long, you may have a pay issue but it will always be resolved in the next pay period.

[rppearso]

The article pretty plainly states that the majority of the blame here falls on the VA. Yes the Army initially was responsible, but after the first few months it became a VA issue. You should make sure you are slinging your crap at the correct target.

AF:salute:

The military and the VA are the same thing, there may be different management but its all part of the military. My crap is pretty accuratly slung, you just dont like it when crap is slung at the military. I am grateful that our nation is defended but thats as far as it goes, a vast majority of the internal working of the military is a joke and this is caused because upper ranking individuals all the way from sgts to officers are similar to beauricrates, they have created for themselves a good ole boy system and the only way to break the system is to make rank but the only way to make rank is to become a good ole boy so its really a catch 22. The only way to reform the military is from the top down from public election of civilian leadership, the problem with that is the civilian leadership is so high up they cant see sgt ass hole slap/haze some joe because he is on a power trip and the internal punishment is a joke because they are all good ole boys the only way for reform is if civilian leadership extended all the way into the ranks. After this war is over the military is going to have a long road ahead of it to regaining there credibility and honor of the civilian population because of the numerous back stabing and deception (stop loss, multipule deployments, poor standard of living, etc). You might have a pretty cush position AF bomb but what about that guy pulling security in iraq I would hardly call that quality of life.

[theHawk]

I always love how liberals use these types of stories to blame "the military" for these stories. It has nothing to do with the agency in question being a military one, its that its government, pure and simple. Government is the most inept and incompetent entity to deal with people's well being. The military just happens to be the part of the government which has to deal with its own people getting hurt on a regular basis because of the nature of the job. If anything, this should just exemplify why government needs to keep its incompetent hands out of everyone's health care. There are mistakes and bad decisions made in government everyday, sometimes it costs us millions of tax dollars, other times it screws over people's lives. When you have employees that are nearly impossible to fire if they are incompetent, and managers thats don't give a shit, you end up with a workforce that could really care less if your paperwork didn't get processed in time or ended up in the wrong stack.

That kind of incompetence and stupidity has nothing to do with men and women who swear an oath to serve this country and wear the uniform.

[crin63]

The same thing happens in the private sector as well. Its not just the military.

Someone I am very close to was injured in 2003 and it took 2 law firms almost 15 months to get the guys workers comp. State disability took 6 weeks to get and was canceled without warning 6 months later while he was still waiting for workers comp. The workers comp just stopped on him twice without warning as well and took weeks to resolve. He burned up his savings trying to make ends meet as well.

[darin]

The military and the VA are the same thing, there may be different management but its all part of the military. My crap is pretty accuratly slung, you just dont like it when crap is slung at the military. I am grateful that our nation is defended but thats as far as it goes, a vast majority of the internal working of the military is a joke and this is caused because upper ranking individuals all the way from sgts to officers are similar to beauricrates, they have created for themselves a good ole boy system and the only way to break the system is to make rank but the only way to make rank is to become a good ole boy so its really a catch 22. The only way to reform the military is from the top down from public election of civilian leadership, the problem with that is the civilian leadership is so high up they cant see sgt ass hole slap/haze some joe because he is on a power trip and the internal punishment is a joke because they are all good ole boys the only way for reform is if civilian leadership extended all the way into the ranks. After this war is over the military is going to have a long road ahead of it to regaining there credibility and honor of the civilian population because of the numerous back stabing and deception (stop loss, multipule deployments, poor standard of living, etc). You might have a pretty cush position AF bomb but what about that guy pulling security in iraq I would hardly call that quality of life.

I'm starting to get the idea you don't know shit. In fact,

what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever (read). At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this (forum) is now dumber for having (read) it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

[AFbombloader]

The military and the VA are the same thing, there may be different management but its all part of the military. My crap is pretty accuratly slung, you just dont like it when crap is slung at the military. I am grateful that our nation is defended but thats as far as it goes, a vast majority of the internal working of the military is a joke and this is caused because upper ranking individuals all the way from sgts to officers are similar to beauricrates, they have created for themselves a good ole boy system and the only way to break the system is to make rank but the only way to make rank is to become a good ole boy so its really a catch 22. The only way to reform the military is from the top down from public election of civilian leadership, the problem with that is the civilian leadership is so high up they cant see sgt ass hole slap/haze some joe because he is on a power trip and the internal punishment is a joke because they are all good ole boys the only way for reform is if civilian leadership extended all the way into the ranks. After this war is over the military is going to have a long road ahead of it to regaining there credibility and honor of the civilian population because of the numerous back stabing and deception (stop loss, multipule deployments, poor standard of living, etc). You might have a pretty cush position AF bomb but what about that guy pulling security in iraq I would hardly call that quality of life.

No, your crap is off target this time. The VA is not the military. It is a civilian run organization that serves the military.

You are right, I do not like it when people bad mouth the military. Just like I don't like it when they bad mouth Christianity or any number of things. You and I seen to clash specifically about this type of thing because you refuse to even remotely open your mind to anything positive in regards to the military.

And yes, my situation at this time is better than the guy pulling security in Iraq. But that could be me, it just isn't at this time. One of my best friends, Dereck, is over there and has been for almost a year. And he is a Civil Engineering Airman, not a security forces Airman. He is a career airman, and his family has a great quality of life. He is not 100% happy to be there, but he is more of a man than you are, he is stepping up and doing his duty without complaining.

AF:salute:

[rppearso]

No, your crap is off target this time. The VA is not the military. It is a civilian run organization that serves the military.

You are right, I do not like it when people bad mouth the military. Just like I don't like it when they bad mouth Christianity or any number of things. You and I seen to clash specifically about this type of thing because you refuse to even remotely open your mind to anything positive in regards to the military.

And yes, my situation at this time is better than the guy pulling security in Iraq. But that could be me, it just isn't at this time. One of my best friends, Dereck, is over there and has been for almost a year. And he is a Civil Engineering Airman, not a security forces Airman. He is a career airman, and his family has a great quality of life. He is not 100% happy to be there, but he is more of a man than you are, he is stepping up and doing his duty without complaining.

AF:salute:

So people that choose not to be put in thoes situations are less of men? I say they are just smarter. Also even though the VA is under different management they primarily serve if not exclusivly serve the military and the military knew what he would be up against when they discharge him. The military took a "not our problem" approach which is no different from what I did or anyone else did by getting out, but somehow im a schmuck for it and the military can do no wrong, whatever.

[Nukeman]

So people that choose not to be put in thoes situations are less of men? I say they are just smarter. Also even though the VA is under different management they primarily serve if not exclusivly serve the military and the military knew what he would be up against when they discharge him. The military took a "not our problem" approach which is no different from what I did or anyone else did by getting out, but somehow im a schmuck for it and the military can do no wrong, whatever.Soooo your saying ANYONE who stays in the military must be dumber than you!!!! I gotta say most on here are more articulate than you will ever be. I would also add that a vast number of the poster's on here with military experience are some of the more intelligent people I have come across..... Your just mad and a cry baby!!! :poke:

[Monkeybone]

So people that choose not to be put in thoes situations are less of men? I say they are just smarter. Also even though the VA is under different management they primarily serve if not exclusivly serve the military and the military knew what he would be up against when they discharge him. The military took a "not our problem" approach which is no different from what I did or anyone else did by getting out, but somehow im a schmuck for it and the military can do no wrong, whatever.

no, not at all. Some people want to be in the service, some don't hear that calling. nothing wrong with that.

It's guys that couldn't handle it and quit. Not guys that just couldn't hack it even though they were trying or got injured in BMT and got out. It that ones that when they had to work a little or got yelled at, or had to show respect for a superior or broke a nail while getting sweaty and quit.It's those people. And then apparently they have a massive ship on their shoulder that they can't see past.

There is a big difference.

and to D
what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever (read). At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this (forum) is now dumber for having (read) it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul. but...it was the Little puppy that could! (or at least that is as close to the name that i can remember:laugh2:)

[AFbombloader]

So people that choose not to be put in thoes situations are less of men? I say they are just smarter. Also even though the VA is under different management they primarily serve if not exclusivly serve the military and the military knew what he would be up against when they discharge him. The military took a "not our problem" approach which is no different from what I did or anyone else did by getting out, but somehow im a schmuck for it and the military can do no wrong, whatever.

No, not them, just you. My comment was refering to you only.

AF:salute:

[Hagbard Celine]

...imagine a national health care system...talk about a nightmare.


BUT - re: Army Pay/Defense Pay.

Could it be better? Yup. "Totally in need of reform" - to what? How so? Where or how would you start?

The pay system works. Not always perfectly, but it works.

Universal healthcare systems work in every country they're tried in. (shrug)

And AFbombloader proved that these types of errors also occur in the private sector.

I'd start by sending an army of efficiency experts into every clerical of the military and laying-off or reassigning every worker doing an unnecessary job. Then I'd streamline the pay process. Instead of having a convoluted chain of command process dependent on orders and officer sign-offs, I'd set it up more like a corporation.

[theHawk]

Universal healthcare systems work in every country they're tried in. (shrug)


That would depend on what the definition of "work" is. Do they provide some type of health care to everyone, yes. Do they provide quality health care in a short amount of time? Probably not. Many of those countries with universal health care are only as big as a few of our states. Implementing that same system in our country with a much bigger population not to mention a huge illegal alien population isn't going to have the same results.

What I don't understand is why libs believe that government will do things better than private industry. A private industry needs to perform a service well enough to ensure that customer will return, and recommend it to their friends. They have to do a good job or they go out of business. Government has no such worries, it will never go out of business no matter how bad their service is. When costs become so bad that it would drive any private business into bankruptcy, government just taxes to make up for it. A government run service has absolutely no inclination to better the way it conducts its 'business'. In fact, the worse it does and the more it makes costs go up, they can just demand more money in the next fiscal budget.

[Hagbard Celine]

That would depend on what the definition of "work" is. Do they provide some type of health care to everyone, yes. Do they provide quality health care in a short amount of time? Probably not. Many of those countries with universal health care are only as big as a few of our states. Implementing that same system in our country with a much bigger population not to mention a huge illegal alien population isn't going to have the same results.

What I don't understand is why libs believe that government will do things better than private industry. A private industry needs to perform a service well enough to ensure that customer will return, and recommend it to their friends. They have to do a good job or they go out of business. Government has no such worries, it will never go out of business no matter how bad their service is. When costs become so bad that it would drive any private business into bankruptcy, government just taxes to make up for it. A government run service has absolutely no inclination to better the way it conducts its 'business'. In fact, the worse it does and the more it makes costs go up, they can just demand more money in the next fiscal budget.

They do.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/view/main.html

[darin]

Universal healthcare systems work in every country they're tried in. (shrug)


Works? How well? Better or worse than our VA or Military admin/pay/care systems?

Why are Canadians STREAMING into the states for MRIs, etc?

[Hagbard Celine]

Works? How well? Better or worse than our VA or Military admin/pay/care systems?

Why are Canadians STREAMING into the states for MRIs, etc?

They aren't. Where do you get this stuff? Limbaugh?

[darin]

They aren't. Where do you get this stuff? Limbaugh?

...from actual canadians...naive? or do you really think the Canadian health care system is dandy?

[Hagbard Celine]

...from actual canadians...naive? or do you really think the Canadian health care system is dandy?
It's a better value than ours is.
http://www.photius.com/rankings/who_world_health_ranks.html

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

[rppearso]

No, not them, just you. My comment was refering to you only.

AF:salute:

Ok so this is no change from the useless name calling. BTW the military likes to "pretend" to be hard because if they were truely "hard" dueling would be ok and yelling could be escelated to a full blown fist fight without any fear of retribution (ie drill sgt yells and screams and corners a private and private can retaliate at a time advantagious to the private, like if the private is smaller and less skilled he may need to take out the drill sgt in the back of the head when he is not looking or if he thinks he can take him he can go at it right there) or I could load my .308 and shoot him while he is eating a meal with his family legally, its just escalation of "hardness" right).

[rppearso]

This whole thing is such a crock, you will see how "hard" someone really is when the rank is off and the round hat is gone. Its all about power trips and control not about manning up or honor or even "hardness".

[theHawk]

They do.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/view/main.html


All tiny countries compared to ours. You didn't address any issue I brought up...:poke:

[Psychoblues]

Oh yes, Hawk, the subject was adequately considered.



All tiny countries compared to ours. You didn't address any issue I brought up...:poke:

You just are selectively deaf, aren't you? Follow the links, cowgirl!!!!!!!!!!