US soldier refuses to report for active duty in Iraq

[actsnoblemartin]

WASHINGTON (AFP) - A month after US army reservist Matthis Chiroux publicly refused to deploy to Iraq, the former sergeant on Sunday set himself up for possible prosecution by failing to report for active duty with his unit in South Carolina.

"Tonight at midnight, I may face further action from the army for refusing to reactivate to participate in the Iraq occupation," Chiroux told reporters in Washington.


I dont agree with his views, but if he will accept the consequences of his actions, then I respect his decision

[Psychoblues]

I am certain he would agree with you taking his place in Iraq, Dynamo. Can you find it in your heart to save the good man?!?!?!??!?!??!??!?!?!?!?

[AFbombloader]

He has the right to choose to do this, and it sounds like he is ready to follow the path that this will take. I also do not agree with him and I do not repect his choice. He was a Sgt, that means he has been in a while, and he accepted the risks. I hope is is prosecuted to the full extent of the law. He will probably get an ACLU lawyer to defend him, for free.

Everybody get ready for rrpearso to put his two cents in on this.

AF:salute:

[Psychoblues]

What has your drawers all up in your ass, afbl?



He has the right to choose to do this, and it sounds like he is ready to follow the path that this will take. I also do not agree with him and I do not repect his choice. He was a Sgt, that means he has been in a while, and he accepted the risks. I hope is is prosecuted to the full extent of the law. He will probably get an ACLU lawyer to defend him, for free.

Everybody get ready for rrpearso to put his two cents in on this.

AF:salute:

Can't you respect a Sergeant for a respectable decision? Where do you get all those assumptions? What did they teach you in basic about assumptions?

[AFbombloader]

What has your drawers all up in your ass, afbl?

Can't you respect a Sergeant for a respectable decision? Where do you get all those assumptions? What did they teach you in basic about assumptions?

No, I cannot respect anyone for not stepping up to the responsibilities they signed up for. If everyone is allowed to bail out when things get tough or you have to do something difficult where will we be as a society? Do you really think I want to be over here in Korea, away from my family? No I do not. But I know my responsibilities. I am a man of my word. I do not feel this man is.

And what assumptions did I make? He served in the active Army for over 4 years before being honorable discharged last summer. So my assumption is correct, he had been in a while. He refused to be called up as part of the ready reserves, which is part of the contract he signed when he enlisted in the Army. So where was I wrong in my assumptions?

http://ivaw.org/node/3484

If you look back in the history of my posts regarding anything even close to this topic, you will see that I feel exactly the same way as I have in the past.

My drawers are just fine. But thanks for being concerned.

AF:salute:

[darin]

I sorta think that Sergeant is being a puss, not 'against the war'. He's simply tired of deploying and using 'being against the war' as an excuse.

[Hagbard Celine]

I sorta think that Sergeant is being a puss, not 'against the war'. He's simply tired of deploying and using 'being against the war' as an excuse.

Isn't it the same thing?

[darin]

Isn't it the same thing?

It's not. perhaps I did a poor job of explaining. :(

[AFbombloader]

I sorta think that Sergeant is being a puss, not 'against the war'. He's simply tired of deploying and using 'being against the war' as an excuse.

I think he used the "against the war" thing to gain support for his actions. Maybe he was tirred of deploying. So am I. But that does not excuse him from his obligation. I hope he serves time for this. Maybe then people will realize there are consequences to their actions.

AF:salute:

[Hagbard Celine]

I think he used the "against the war" thing to gain support for his actions. Maybe he was tirred of deploying. So am I. But that does not excuse him from his obligation. I hope he serves time for this. Maybe then people will realize there are consequences to their actions.

AF:salute:

It doesn't seem like it's fair to me for people to serve time for quitting a volunteer job. (shrug)

[AFbombloader]

It doesn't seem like it's fair to me for people to serve time for quitting a volunteer job. (shrug)

He signed a contract! People go to jail for breach of contract don't they? That is what he is doing. It doesn't matter if he "volunteered" to serve. We don't have conscription or a draft in America, that is why our military is called a volunteer military.

[My Winter Storm]

WASHINGTON (AFP) - A month after US army reservist Matthis Chiroux publicly refused to deploy to Iraq, the former sergeant on Sunday set himself up for possible prosecution by failing to report for active duty with his unit in South Carolina.

"Tonight at midnight, I may face further action from the army for refusing to reactivate to participate in the Iraq occupation," Chiroux told reporters in Washington.


I dont agree with his views, but if he will accept the consequences of his actions, then I respect his decision


I can't believe he is going to be prosecuted because he doesn't want to get himself shot and killed.
Not even the prosecuter would go over there and risk his life, so anyone who prosecutes him is nothing more than a hypocrite.

[actsnoblemartin]

sharon i respect ya, but youre being silly here.

he signed a contract to go and do whatever the military tells him to do, like any other contract, there are consequences for firing that contract


I can't believe he is going to be prosecuted because he doesn't want to get himself shot and killed.
Not even the prosecuter would go over there and risk his life, so anyone who prosecutes him is nothing more than a hypocrite.

[Psychoblues]

Silly?



sharon i respect ya, but youre being silly here.

he signed a contract to go and do whatever the military tells him to do, like any other contract, there are consequences for firing that contract

Silly? Have you really thought about that, mr. non veteran?

[My Winter Storm]

sharon i respect ya, but youre being silly here.

he signed a contract to go and do whatever the military tells him to do, like any other contract, there are consequences for firing that contract

I do believe they should have the right to change their minds. They might sign up thinking they are ready to go to war and fight for their country, but they could change their mind about it and shouldn't be forced to go.

[Psychoblues]

When the mission underwhelms the expectations, for whatever reason, it's time to clock out, don't you know, Sharon?!?!?!???!?!!?!?!?!?!???!?!?



I do believe they should have the right to change their minds. They might sign up thinking they are ready to go to war and fight for their country, but they could change their mind about it and shouldn't be forced to go.

You are correct. They have a RIGHT to disagree. It is the American ideal that many of us have fought to protect!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[AFbombloader]

I do believe they should have the right to change their minds. They might sign up thinking they are ready to go to war and fight for their country, but they could change their mind about it and shouldn't be forced to go.

That is why you have to be absolutely sure you are willing to do whatever you are ordered to do BEFORE you sign up. After you sign up you have to obey.

This guy did serve honorably. He did his active duty time. But there is a requirement to serve as a ready reserve, and he got called back up. Again I will refer to the CONTRACT he signed. This isn't like buying a car, where you can sell it if you don't like it. There is no easy out of this contract he chose to sign. I do respect his opinion, but he needs to be an adult about his responsibilities.

AF:salute:

[Psychoblues]

Not so, afbl. I signed up as all current recruits sign up to defend the constitution of the United States Of America.



That is why you have to be absolutely sure you are willing to do whatever you are ordered to do BEFORE you sign up. After you sign up you have to obey.

This guy did serve honorably. He did his active duty time. But there is a requirement to serve as a ready reserve, and he got called back up. Again I will refer to the CONTRACT he signed. This isn't like buying a car, where you can sell it if you don't like it. There is no easy out of this contract he chose to sign. I do respect his opinion, but he needs to be an adult about his responsibilities.

AF:salute:

When the mission exceeds the authority of the constitution, real or imagined, it's time to clock out. There are many General and Admiral Officers now retired and rethinking that process. Do you read much, afbl?

[actsnoblemartin]

question: do soldiers have the right to refuse to serve, and for what reasons, and how do we know when they are legit?

honest question, my dear friend :salute:


Not so, afbl. I signed up as all current recruits sign up to defend the constitution of the United States Of America.




When the mission exceeds the authority of the constitution, real or imagined, it's time to clock out. There are many General and Admiral Officers now retired and rethinking that process. Do you read much, afbl?

[Psychoblues]

Have you ever heard about the case of Lt. Calley in Viet Nam, Dynamo?



question: do soldiers have the right to refuse to serve, and for what reasons, and how do we know when they are legit?

honest question, my dear friend :salute:

Our soldiers have a constitutional obligation to refuse orders they believe, for whatever reason, are unconstitutional. The safest way is to let the courts, military and civilian, work out the difference of opinion. The conscience will be better served in that environment, I hope and believe. Otherwise, all that this old vet ever fought for and against is pretty much moot, or do you disagree?

[actsnoblemartin]

Have you ever heard about the case of Lt. Calley in Viet Nam, Dynamo?

Yeah, he was the guy who ordered u.s. troops to kill 10,000 innocent vietnamese. I believe he got a life sentence for that



Our soldiers have a constitutional obligation to refuse orders they believe, for whatever reason, are unconstitutional. The safest way is to let the courts, military and civilian, work out the difference of opinion. The conscience will be better served in that environment, I hope and believe. Otherwise, all that this old vet ever fought for and against is pretty much moot, or do you disagree?

actually, i do agree. I think that does make that most sense

[AFbombloader]

Not so, afbl. I signed up as all current recruits sign up to defend the constitution of the United States Of America.

When the mission exceeds the authority of the constitution, real or imagined, it's time to clock out. There are many General and Admiral Officers now retired and rethinking that process. Do you read much, afbl?

Yes I do read quite a bit. Why?

My mission is to manage my troops while they fix airplanes. I'm not paid to worry about the politics or the reasons behing what I do. How do I, as an E-6, know if the mission exceeds the authority. Last I checked, I do what my boss says to do, my boss does what our Chief says to do, who does what our Capt. says to do, etc. That is how the chain of command works. I don't need to worry about the links at the start of the chain.

And how exactly does this war exceed the authority of the Constitution? Didn't Congress AUTHORIZE it?

AF:salute:

[Psychoblues]

The war is based on bullshit, afbl. You admit that your mission will be over in a couple of months as you separate from the USAF. I hope the images of dead, burned, mutilated and otherwise politically disenfranchised Iraqi's that are so due to the bombs you loaded or supervised loading don't haunt you in your sleep.




Yes I do read quite a bit. Why?

My mission is to manage my troops while they fix airplanes. I'm not paid to worry about the politics or the reasons behing what I do. How do I, as an E-6, know if the mission exceeds the authority. Last I checked, I do what my boss says to do, my boss does what our Chief says to do, who does what our Capt. says to do, etc. That is how the chain of command works. I don't need to worry about the links at the start of the chain.

And how exactly does this war exceed the authority of the Constitution? Didn't Congress AUTHORIZE it?

AF:salute:

I did my fuckin' job as well, afbl. I earned medals/ribbons, about 24 of them, and I wore them proudly. I never got a bad or even close to bad APR. I was promoted to E-5 Staff Sergeant under 4 years. You ain't got a goddamned clue about me as I don't have much of a clue about you.

I can't stand any liar that would exploit my ignorance or patronize my patriotism. You can live with yourself and I can certainly live with myself. Good luck, Airman.

:salute:

[actsnoblemartin]

I respect the fact this man, this soldier is willing to stand up and accept the consequences of his actions, i.e. not serving, however. I believe his reasons for refusing to serve are not valid, I do not believe this is an occupation, i do not believe is an un-just war, as saddam killed 400,000 of his own people, had rape and torture rooms, had people starving, and without health care

I believe this young man, should get a stiff sentence, so others who decide they think they know which wars are legal and not legal, realize, their will be serious consequences for their insubordination.

were not talking about refusing to kill innocent civilians, like in vietnam, but someone, who is arrogant (in my opinion) who doesnt wanna serve while his buds fight and die for their country.

did this young man sign up and think, he would agree with every order/every war he might be involved in.

does he think every soldier agrees with every order/war they are sent too?


Yes I do read quite a bit. Why?

My mission is to manage my troops while they fix airplanes. I'm not paid to worry about the politics or the reasons behing what I do. How do I, as an E-6, know if the mission exceeds the authority. Last I checked, I do what my boss says to do, my boss does what our Chief says to do, who does what our Capt. says to do, etc. That is how the chain of command works. I don't need to worry about the links at the start of the chain.

And how exactly does this war exceed the authority of the Constitution? Didn't Congress AUTHORIZE it?

AF:salute:

[Psychoblues]

Who gives a fuck what you believe, martin? The young man lives within himself and I don't imagine you are a part of his life.




I respect the fact this man, this soldier is willing to stand up and accept the consequences of his actions, i.e. not serving, however. I believe his reasons for refusing to serve are not valid, I do not believe this is an occupation, i do not believe is an un-just war, as saddam killed 400,000 of his own people, had rape and torture rooms, had people starving, and without health care

I believe this young man, should get a stiff sentence, so others who decide they think they know which wars are legal and not legal, realize, their will be serious consequences for their insubordination.

were not talking about refusing to kill innocent civilians, like in vietnam, but someone, who is arrogant (in my opinion) who doesnt wanna serve while his buds fight and die for their country.

did this young man sign up and think, he would agree with every order/every war he might be involved in.

does he think every soldier agrees with every order/war they are sent too?

He has done what he has done. You or I are not a substantial part of the disposition of his case. I suspect he will do his best to protect his self interests. Are you a witness?

[actsnoblemartin]

I respect the hell outta ya, but I still gotta challenge you brother :salute:


The war is based on bullshit, afbl.

With all due respect why?, saddam murdered 400,000 of his own people, he had his own people raped, tortured, let them starve, many without health care, how is that un-just?

You admit that your mission will be over in a couple of months as you separate from the USAF. I hope the images of dead, burned, mutilated

The U.S. military is not going around murdering innocent iraqi's, al queda in iraq is,

and otherwise politically disenfranchised Iraqi's that are so due to the bombs you loaded or supervised loading don't haunt you in your sleep.

so, the u.s. military are nazi's, genocidal maniacs, who have nothing better to do then kill people, where are you getting this from?

we go after al queda, yes, but you think we go after innocent iraqi's?







I did my fuckin' job as well, afbl.

I know :salute:

I earned medals/ribbons, about 24 of them,

and you are a great man, I will never , nor allow anyone to question your patriotism


and I wore them proudly. I never got a bad or even close to bad APR. I was promoted to E-5 Staff Sergeant under 4 years. You ain't got a goddamned clue about me as I don't have much of a clue about you.

I know this war brings out emotions from many, and i will NEVER lose respect for you my friend

I can't stand any liar that would exploit my ignorance or patronize my patriotism. You can live with yourself and I can certainly live with myself. Good luck, Airman.

:salute:

[actsnoblemartin]

I understand that my dear friend, but dont we both have a right to our own opinions?


Who gives a fuck what you believe, martin? The young man lives within himself and I don't imagine you are a part of his life.





He has done what he has done. You or I are not a substantial part of the disposition of his case. I suspect he will do his best to protect his self interests. Are you a witness?

[Psychoblues]

I'm sorry I blew off at you, Dynamo. Please respect me with a challenge that is genuine and not something you think or simply heard, OK?

[actsnoblemartin]

I'm sorry I blew off at you, Dynamo. Please respect me with a challenge that is genuine and not something you think or simply heard, OK?

I dont feel you blew me off, and im sorry you feel i wasnt genuine.

I will try to be be more genuine, and more researched ok :cheers2:

[Psychoblues]

Meet me in the Lounge, Dynamo. I've got a cold sprite, no ice waitin' for you!!!!!!



I dont feel you blew me off, and im sorry you feel i wasnt genuine.

I will try to be be more genuine, and more researched ok :cheers2:

Thanks for the pm's, pal. You are indeed special.

[actsnoblemartin]

I apologize for being so judgmental.

I have no idea, whats going on in that kids mind, ( i think everyone my age is a kid)

and i realize, sometimes i can be mean spirited.

He has big balls, to stand up for what he believes in

I see how me, a civilian, who has never had to worry about going to war, is being a prick, by being so harsh against someone i dont even know


Meet me in the Lounge, Dynamo. I've got a cold sprite, no ice waitin' for you!!!!!!




Thanks for the pm's, pal. You are indeed special.

[AFbombloader]

The war is based on bullshit, afbl. You admit that your mission will be over in a couple of months as you separate from the USAF. I hope the images of dead, burned, mutilated and otherwise politically disenfranchised Iraqi's that are so due to the bombs you loaded or supervised loading don't haunt you in your sleep.

I did my fuckin' job as well, afbl. I earned medals/ribbons, about 24 of them, and I wore them proudly. I never got a bad or even close to bad APR. I was promoted to E-5 Staff Sergeant under 4 years. You ain't got a goddamned clue about me as I don't have much of a clue about you.

I can't stand any liar that would exploit my ignorance or patronize my patriotism. You can live with yourself and I can certainly live with myself. Good luck, Airman.

:salute:

First off, why that hostility toward me? My comments have not been negative in any way to you. I have said nothing about your service, so don't throw it in my face like I should know anytihng about it. I have never questioned your patriotism, nor would I. You are correct, I do not have a clue about you, but show me where I said I do? I didn't claim to anywhere. Where did this come from on a post where I explained my part in the mission? And how I look at it?

In responce to the last couple of remarks. Are you saying I am a liar or am exploiting you in some way? I don't see it, please explain it to me, I don't understand where you arecoming from. All I do is my job, and that is what I replied about. Where does that say anyting about you?

As to my sleeping at night, I do quite well. I am an aircraft mechanic, I loaded bombs and missiles that when utilized by the pilot could have killed the enemy. That is all I need to know to have peace in my mind. I know of no missions that any of the munitions I loaded that went against civilians, either by accident or by design. I worked air to air for the majority of my career, so it was us vs. their aircraft. I have never loaded a bomb that went on a combat mission. But I understand your point. It just doesnt't apply to me.

AF:salute:

[Psychoblues]

I'm an old guy, martin. And a veteran, a PROUD VETERAN. I don't make light of the troubles of any man, especially any brother TROOP!!!!!!!!!!

Sometimes having been there and done that just isn't enough to grasp the emotion. Ain't that what us humans are all about? Aren't our emotions what separate us from the animals?




I apologize for being so judgmental.

I have no idea, whats going on in that kids mind, ( i think everyone my age is a kid)

and i realize, sometimes i can be mean spirited.

He has big balls, to stand up for what he believes in

I see how me, a civilian, who has never had to worry about going to war, is being a prick, by being so harsh against someone i dont even know

[Psychoblues]

I apologize, afbl. You got caught up between these posts and a series of pm's that I got and I got emotional. I have no hostility towards you or any troop that is doing the job this country gave them to do.



First off, why that hostility toward me? My comments have not been negative in any way to you. I have said nothing about your service, so don't throw it in my face like I should know anytihng about it. I have never questioned your patriotism, nor would I. You are correct, I do not have a clue about you, but show me where I said I do? I didn't claim to anywhere. Where did this come from on a post where I explained my part in the mission? And how I look at it?

In responce to the last couple of remarks. Are you saying I am a liar or am exploiting you in some way? I don't see it, please explain it to me, I don't understand where you arecoming from. All I do is my job, and that is what I replied about. Where does that say anyting about you?

As to my sleeping at night, I do quite well. I am an aircraft mechanic, I loaded bombs and missiles that when utilized by the pilot could have killed the enemy. That is all I need to know to have peace in my mind. I know of no missions that any of the munitions I loaded that went against civilians, either by accident or by design. I worked air to air for the majority of my career, so it was us vs. their aircraft. I have never loaded a bomb that went on a combat mission. But I understand your point. It just doesnt't apply to me.

AF:salute:

Please forgive me.

[actsnoblemartin]

I'm an old guy, martin. And a veteran, a PROUD VETERAN. I don't make light of the troubles of any man, especially any brother TROOP!!!!!!!!!!



Sometimes having been there and done that just isn't enough to grasp the emotion. Ain't that what us humans are all about? Aren't our emotions what separate us from the animals?

I understand, and thats why I took a step back and realized I dont get it, I dont know him, I could use a little kindness, instead of a little meanness.

Im glad you got me to be a bit more compassionate, and that compassion has nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing

[actsnoblemartin]

If you deal with psychoblues for more then 5 seconds, as i have, you see what a genuinely caring, high character, fine human being he is.

I hope you do forgive him, he is a fine man, and a great person


First off, why that hostility toward me? My comments have not been negative in any way to you. I have said nothing about your service, so don't throw it in my face like I should know anytihng about it. I have never questioned your patriotism, nor would I. You are correct, I do not have a clue about you, but show me where I said I do? I didn't claim to anywhere. Where did this come from on a post where I explained my part in the mission? And how I look at it?

In responce to the last couple of remarks. Are you saying I am a liar or am exploiting you in some way? I don't see it, please explain it to me, I don't understand where you arecoming from. All I do is my job, and that is what I replied about. Where does that say anyting about you?

As to my sleeping at night, I do quite well. I am an aircraft mechanic, I loaded bombs and missiles that when utilized by the pilot could have killed the enemy. That is all I need to know to have peace in my mind. I know of no missions that any of the munitions I loaded that went against civilians, either by accident or by design. I worked air to air for the majority of my career, so it was us vs. their aircraft. I have never loaded a bomb that went on a combat mission. But I understand your point. It just doesnt't apply to me.

AF:salute:

[AFbombloader]

I apologize, afbl. You got caught up between these posts and a series of pm's that I got and I got emotional. I have no hostility towards you or any troop that is doing the job this country gave them to do.




Please forgive me.

No problem.

[AFbombloader]

If you deal with psychoblues for more then 5 seconds, as i have, you see what a genuinely caring, high character, fine human being he is.

I hope you do forgive him, he is a fine man, and a great person

I know, and figured it was something like it was.

I don't hold grudges and forget quite quickly.

AF.:salute:

[actsnoblemartin]

I am enjoying reading your posts, and think your a nice person

:cheers2:


I know, and figured it was something like it was.

I don't hold grudges and forget quite quickly.

AF.:salute:

[Psychoblues]

Holy shit, martin.



I am enjoying reading your posts, and think your a nice person

:cheers2:

I would've never imagined that you would go in that particular direction!!!!!!!!