Proper Use Of An Evolution Text Book

[crin63]

They save me money on targets.

Just like evolution this book is shot full of holes.

[diuretic]

Did the big bad book scare you, you had to shoot it to stop it scaring you? :laugh2:

[hjmick]

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/hjmc3rd/naziBB.gif

[DragonStryk72]

Wow, just.... wow. I mean, seriously, what scares you so much about evolution?

Now understand, I am a main of faith, but if you're looking at the bible and believing it to be 100% accurate, you're out of your mind. 6 years of catholic school talking here, the bible was written by men and women, it does not have all the answers, and there is no reason for both not to exist together. science in no way proves or disproves religion, so what is this hard on you have for tearing down evolution?

[bullypulpit]

Wow, just.... wow. I mean, seriously, what scares you so much about evolution?

Now understand, I am a main of faith, but if you're looking at the bible and believing it to be 100% accurate, you're out of your mind. 6 years of catholic school talking here, the bible was written by men and women, it does not have all the answers, and there is no reason for both not to exist together. science in no way proves or disproves religion, so what is this hard on you have for tearing down evolution?

Anything which threatens to undermine a dogmatic view, whether it be religious as in the case of evolution or secular as in the case of fascism, is regarded a threat and must therefore be eliminated.

[bullypulpit]

They save me money on targets.

Just like evolution this book is shot full of holes.

Ignoring the anti-evolution BS, what were you shooting...? Rifle/scope make and model...Ammo...?...Factory or hand loads?

[crin63]

Did the big bad book scare you, you had to shoot it to stop it scaring you? :laugh2:

Nah, just doing my part for the environment by shooting at trash instead of new paper targets.

[crin63]

Wow, just.... wow. I mean, seriously, what scares you so much about evolution?

Now understand, I am a main of faith, but if you're looking at the bible and believing it to be 100% accurate, you're out of your mind. 6 years of catholic school talking here, the bible was written by men and women, it does not have all the answers, and there is no reason for both not to exist together. science in no way proves or disproves religion, so what is this hard on you have for tearing down evolution?

I'm not scared of evolution. Why are people scared of creation? I'm willing to allow both to be taught side by side. But the evolutionist only want their faith taught and no other. Evolution is as much by faith as creation is.

[Noir]

They save me money on targets.

Just like evolution this book is shot full of holes.

Unlike creationism which is water tight....right?

[crin63]

Ignoring the anti-evolution BS, what were you shooting...? Rifle/scope make and model...Ammo...?...Factory or hand loads?

I was shooting an FN Special Police .308 with Leupold Mark 4 4.5x14 Mil-Dot scope and Winchester Match ammo. The Winchester ammo doesn't get very good reviews but I liked it alright. I really have to give Pachmayr credit on their new generation recoil pads also, man their sweet. I spent a little time behind my M1A also.

That was actually one of the few moments I got to shoot yesterday. I spent most of the day instructing on its use. There was about 25 of us in our group. I think the best was a 65 year old Chinese friend of mine that had not shot a gun in 50 years. He was so excited, he was hitting everything he was shooting at.

[avatar4321]

Im not one to promote destrucion of books. However, I can't help but notice those protesting so much are usually the first ones who will attempt to shut down debate by calling others names and marginalizing them. Those complaining about people being dogmatic are the most dogmatic people on the board.

People hold differing opinions. Get over it.

[Immanuel]

Wow, just.... wow. I mean, seriously, what scares you so much about evolution?

Now understand, I am a main of faith, but if you're looking at the bible and believing it to be 100% accurate, you're out of your mind. 6 years of catholic school talking here, the bible was written by men and women, it does not have all the answers, and there is no reason for both not to exist together. science in no way proves or disproves religion, so what is this hard on you have for tearing down evolution?

I agree with most of this. I suppose where we disagree is the 100% accuracy of the Bible. For it to be God's word it must be 100% accurate and true! I believe it to be absolutely accurate and true. The problem stems from our inability to translate and understand it.

If man wrote it as you say, then where does God fit in? If man wrote it without the inspiration of God, then it would be nothing more than a book of fantasy and your faith would be no more valuable than dust on a shelf.

Immie

[crin63]

I agree with most of this. I suppose where we disagree is the 100% accuracy of the Bible. For it to be God's word it must be 100% accurate and true! I believe it to be absolutely accurate and true. The problem stems from our inability to translate and understand it.

If man wrote it as you say, then where does God fit in? If man wrote it without the inspiration of God, then it would be nothing more than a book of fantasy and your faith would be no more valuable than dust on a shelf.

Immie

I'm confused, which part do you agree with.

[Immanuel]

I'm confused, which part do you agree with.

What scares you about evolution?

There is no reason the two theories cannot co-exist or rather neither (man's understandings of creation) be totally accurate. There are questions left unanswered by both theories. The Bible says God created all things... that he spoke them into existence... or at least that is the religious point of view of creationism. But does God really say HOW he created?

I see no reason why Science and Faith cannot lead in the same direction or rather to the same answers.

Immie

[Missileman]

Evolution is as much by faith as creation is.

What a crock...comparing the belief in ancient Jewish mythology to belief in a theory based on scentific observations.

[crin63]

What scares you about evolution?

There is no reason the two theories cannot co-exist or rather neither (man's understandings of creation) be totally accurate. There are questions left unanswered by both theories. The Bible says God created all things... that he spoke them into existence... or at least that is the religious point of view of creationism. But does God really say HOW he created?

I see no reason why Science and Faith cannot lead in the same direction or rather to the same answers.

Immie

Evolution doesn't scare me. I already said that. I'm willing to allow both sides to be heard, but creationists aren't allowed to let their side be heard.

Evolutionists are the ones who are afraid otherwise they wouldn't protest creation being taught. Both sides only have faith in their belief not hard factual evidence.

One side is trying to interpret all that they see around them without a historical record and the other side is using a historical record to view what they see.

I agree that science rightly understood and faith can reach the same conclusion.

Your arguing against yourself. You said that God said how He created the world and then you say that God did not say how He did it.

The problem is that the evolutionist don't want there to be a God outside of themselves. Thats why they refuse to allow creation to be taught. If there is a God then they're in trouble and they don't like that.

[Missileman]

Evolution doesn't scare me. I already said that. I'm willing to allow both sides to be heard, but creationists aren't allowed to let their side be heard.

This is inaccurate. Creationists are free to preach their theory in their churches...right where it belongs. Creationism is not science, it's Genesis wrapped up in pseudo-science.

[avatar4321]

This is inaccurate. Creationists are free to preach their theory in their churches...right where it belongs. Creationism is not science, it's Genesis wrapped up in pseudo-science.

The only pseudo-science allowed is yours. got it.

[midcan5]

I sometimes wonder if people opposed to evolutionary theory have ever looked at themselves nude in front of a mirror and then took a look at the natural world. Jeez, you look alot alike. LOL

http://www.noahsarkzoofarm.co.uk/img/apes2mencomparisons.jpg

Which one is Crin?

[DragonStryk72]

I'm not scared of evolution. Why are people scared of creation? I'm willing to allow both to be taught side by side. But the evolutionist only want their faith taught and no other. Evolution is as much by faith as creation is.

No, no, no, this isn't about evolution vs. creation, buddy, you put that nowhere in the OP. What you put in was that evolution was worthy only as target practice, that's hate, not "I don't believe in it", hate. I don't believe in Buddhism, but it's not hate, because I do not take any time out of my day, busy or not, to take a swipe at it. You did, apparently, and are even willing to pay for ammunition.

I'm not afraid of creationism, but given that we are only missing one link in the chain to prove it, hence why it is still a theory.

Now, which Creationism are you talking about anyhow? Because, from my perspective, every single religion on the planet has their own mutually exclusive one, and no, schools do not have time to cover them all, it just wouldn't work. If you are so worried about your children's education, either put them in catholic school, where they'll have a theology course, or, if that's not an option, there's homeschooling, or, just a thought here, being active with your local church, and leading by example. None of these however, require you shooting perfectly good textbooks, which is the only thing you brought to this debate.

[manu1959]

This is inaccurate. Creationists are free to preach their theory in their churches...right where it belongs. Creationism is not science, it's Genesis wrapped up in pseudo-science.

evolution is not creationism ..... just to be clear.....

[manu1959]

I sometimes wonder if people opposed to evolutionary theory have ever looked at themselves nude in front of a mirror and then took a look at the natural world. Jeez, you look alot alike. LOL

http://www.noahsarkzoofarm.co.uk/img/apes2mencomparisons.jpg

Which one is Crin?

i am not opposed to evolution and survival of the fittest.....i do continue to wonder when the left is going to let nature take its course though.....

[Missileman]

The only pseudo-science allowed is yours. got it.

That's right...biology, anatomy, astronomy, geology...all pseudo-science. You should consider converting to Islam as they actually live in the dark ages. You'd be extremely comfortable. Got it?

[Missileman]

evolution is not creationism ..... just to be clear.....

I don't buy into the arguments that evolution and creationism aren't mutually exclusive. Evolution describes a process that turned single cell creatures into the myriad of life on the planet today. Creationism makes no such allowance...just to be clear...

[diuretic]

It's the fundamentalist mindset that's threatened by scientific observation.

Don't panic! You can always go to the first cause argument. Just don't think that creationism is in any way remotely scientific rather than a theological concept.

[bullypulpit]

I was shooting an FN Special Police .308 with Leupold Mark 4 4.5x14 Mil-Dot scope and Winchester Match ammo. The Winchester ammo doesn't get very good reviews but I liked it alright. I really have to give Pachmayr credit on their new generation recoil pads also, man their sweet. I spent a little time behind my M1A also.

That was actually one of the few moments I got to shoot yesterday. I spent most of the day instructing on its use. There was about 25 of us in our group. I think the best was a 65 year old Chinese friend of mine that had not shot a gun in 50 years. He was so excited, he was hitting everything he was shooting at.

Sweeeeet.

But creationism doesn't deserve equal time in the classroom vis-a-vis evolution anymore than astrology vis-a-vis astronomy. Creationism is little more than religious dogma dressed up in pseudo-scientific verbiage...It's not science.

[avatar4321]

That's right...biology, anatomy, astronomy, geology...all pseudo-science. You should consider converting to Islam as they actually live in the dark ages. You'd be extremely comfortable. Got it?

none of those have any bearing on this discussion and you know it.

It was faith that developed science. It was faith that urged man to learn set laws in nature. It was faith that provided the techniques used to determine truth.

And as faith is removed from the equation, so does the reliability of what we call science.

You are returning us to a dark age. I rather like indoor plumbing, so im going to remain with the faith that was able to produce all these modern marvels.

[midcan5]

I agree with most of this.

Immie

Hi Immie, how's it going, haven't seen you here before.

[Missileman]

none of those have any bearing on this discussion and you know it.

They have everything to do with the discussion as it's those disciplines that fortify the theory of evolution.


It was faith that developed science. It was faith that urged man to learn set laws in nature. It was faith that provided the techniques used to determine truth.

Science has flourished despite religion. The church wanted and still wants to quell anything which might contradict a literal interpretation of the Bible.

[Hagbard Celine]

Nah, just doing my part for the environment by shooting at trash instead of new paper targets.

(shrug) The world needs ditch diggers and sanitation workers too I guess.

[darin]

My observations:

I like guns - so shooting things is cool.

Evolution (Darwinism, etc, Macro Evolution) is pathetically lame in terms of "science". It's a religion not unlike global warming. Huge massive Holes - it's a theory...it's something never observed nor ever measured as far as I can recall. It simply takes more faith than I can muster to believe in 'accidental life' on this planet. :)

As testamony of the Faith required and zeal of it's followers look in this very thread, as Avatar observed. There are plenty of Pro-Evolution yokels here ranting and raving and hooting and holering. Of couse, I honestly feel there'd be some well-meaning christians doing the same if THEIR holy book was the subject of Target Practice.

Neither this book (in the OP), nor the bible, nor the Koran, nor the yellow pages would stir me to emotion. It's 'just' paper.

:)

[Hagbard Celine]

My observations:

I like guns - so shooting things is cool.

Evolution (Darwinism, etc, Macro Evolution) is pathetically lame in terms of "science". It's a religion not unlike global warming. Huge massive Holes - it's a theory...it's something never observed nor ever measured as far as I can recall. It simply takes more faith than I can muster to believe in 'accidental life' on this planet. :)

As testamony of the Faith required and zeal of it's followers look in this very thread, as Avatar observed. There are plenty of Pro-Evolution yokels here ranting and raving and hooting and holering. Of couse, I honestly feel there'd be some well-meaning christians doing the same if THEIR holy book was the subject of Target Practice.

Neither this book (in the OP), nor the bible, nor the Koran, nor the yellow pages would stir me to emotion. It's 'just' paper.

:)

Aye, just as the flag is just cloth.

However, you can't ignore the blatant parallel between this and Nazi book burning rallies. While I am in no way making a direct corrolation between the two, meaning I'm not calling crin a Nazi, it is still the same profound ignorance and deliberate hebetude that was behind fascism, that's also behind Crin's actions. It's that, the purposeful destruction, censorship and disregard for knowledge, that I find offensive. Which book he's destroying is a non-issue.

[darin]

Aye, just as the flag is just cloth.

However, you can't ignore the blatant parallel between this and Nazi book burning rallies. While I am in no way making a direct corrolation between the two, meaning I'm not calling crin a Nazi, it is still the same profound ignorance and deliberate hebetude that was behind fascism, that's also behind Crin's actions. It's that, the purposeful destruction, censorship and disregard for knowledge, that I find offensive. Which book he's destroying is a non-issue.


I think you're reading into things. The shooter was just doing something 'funny'...was Art, if you will...making commentary. The only thing I can't ignore is now, not only is macro evolution full of holes, so is the text book :)

And you've made the assumption the book HAS knowledge contained therein. I suppose it does - like most any other book of mostly-fiction would contain. :D


And the flag IS different than a book. :D

[hjmick]

Just in case anyone is wondering, I would have posted the same picture had Crin shot up a Bible. I would have posted the same picture had he shot up a copy of The Hobbit. It isn't the subject matter that offends me, though "offend" is probably too harsh an adjective, it is the destruction of the book itself. I am vehemently opposed to such activities as I feel they are the first step in stifling free speech, something we should all hold dear. With very few exceptions, I do not believe that there is any subject matter whose discussion should scare or worry anyone. It is only through the free exchange of ideas and opinions, both pro and con, that change will occur.

I suppose one could argue that, by shooting the text book, Crin was exercising his right to free speech. In that respect I guess my posting the picture of the book burning was a tad extreme, but in my defense, it was a gut reaction.

[Hagbard Celine]

I think you're reading into things.
Not anymore, there are bullet holes where the words used to be.


The shooter was just doing something 'funny'
I don't think Larry the Cable Guy is funny. I think he's a troglodyte.


...was Art, if you will...making commentary.
Opinions are like assh*les: Everybody has one and most of them stink. :D


The only thing I can't ignore is now, not only is macro evolution full of holes, so is the text book :)
Said the religious man whose creation story relies upon the presumptive existence of a being no one has ever seen, heard from or witnessed evidence of.


And you've made the assumption the book HAS knowledge contained therein. I suppose it does - like most any other book of mostly-fiction would contain. :D
Said the guy who held the BIBLE, a book pieced together by committee in the second century from the oral traditions of twelve tribes of goat herders, up as the alternative.


And the flag IS different than a book. :D
How so? Or is this another episode of every conservatives favorite show? "Let's acknowledge context when it suits us!" :D

[darin]

Said the guy who held the BIBLE, a book pieced together by committee in the second century from the oral traditions of twelve tribes of goat herders,

...which never contradicts itself in context...Miraculous? :)


up as the alternative.

Science points towards intelligent design...not just the bible. The bible confirms what science tells us about our world. neat huh? :)

[Missileman]

...which never contradicts itself in context...Miraculous? :)



Science points towards intelligent design...not just the bible. The bible confirms what science tells us about our world. neat huh? :)

Puff puff pass...that's some pretty good dope you're smoking. If science pointed toward intelligent design, scientists would embrace it. That's the nature of science.

[Hagbard Celine]

Puff puff pass...that's some pretty good dope you're smoking. If science pointed toward intelligent design, scientists would embrace it. That's the nature of science.

No, no, no Missilemayne! You're forgetting about the vast liberal media conspiracy to thwart Christianity by ignoring all the hard evidence in the book of Genesis. The "scientific community" is in on it! :eek:

[Missileman]

No, no, no Missilemayne! You're forgetting about the vast liberal media conspiracy to thwart Christianity by ignoring all the hard evidence in the book of Genesis. The "scientific community" is in on it! :eek:

The case for creationism is so weak, the only recourse for it's advocates is the destruction of science books...next thing you know, the laws of motion will be listed as heresy.

[darin]

Puff puff pass...that's some pretty good dope you're smoking. If science pointed toward intelligent design, scientists would embrace it. That's the nature of science.


http://www.expelledthemovie.com/

Scientists embrace ID. Some Secularists fear it.

[Missileman]

http://www.expelledthemovie.com/

Scientists embrace ID.

Which one? :poke:

[LOki]

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/hjmc3rd/naziBB.gifYou must spread some Reputation around before giving it to hjmick again.

[darin]

The SMART one(s) :p Those not blinded by their desire to produce and create "evidence" which supports and fuels their fear of God.

:D

:beers: to ya, heathen.

[Missileman]

The SMART one(s) :p Those not blinded by their desire to produce and create "evidence" which supports and fuels their fear of God.

:D

:beers: to ya, heathen.

So now evolutionists are manufacturing their evidence? How many bales of hay to the mile does your wagon get, caveman? :lmao:

[LOki]

I'm not scared of evolution.

Sure you are.


Why are people scared of creation?

No-one is.


I'm willing to allow both to be taught side by side.

In Sunday School? In Church?


But the evolutionist only want their faith taught and no other.

What faith?


Evolution is as much by faith as creation is.

Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence? (http://www.bartleby.com/61/84/F0018400.html) Nonsense.

[DragonStryk72]

I agree with most of this. I suppose where we disagree is the 100% accuracy of the Bible. For it to be God's word it must be 100% accurate and true! I believe it to be absolutely accurate and true. The problem stems from our inability to translate and understand it.

If man wrote it as you say, then where does God fit in? If man wrote it without the inspiration of God, then it would be nothing more than a book of fantasy and your faith would be no more valuable than dust on a shelf.

Immie

God didn't hold the pen, we know this because Psalms was mainly written by Solomon, again, six years of theology to back this up, it was written by man, even if the inspiration is divine.

[Missileman]

God didn't hold the pen, we know this because Psalms was mainly written by Solomon, again, six years of theology to back this up, it was written by man, even if the inspiration is divine.

Isn't it amazing that the likes of the Reverend Jim Jones also claimed divine inspiration.

[darin]

So now evolutionists are manufacturing their evidence? How many bales of hay to the mile does your wagon get, caveman? :lmao:

You should know, the answer is zero...because Cavemen (like, evolutionary cavemen) likely never existed. Not to say folk were'nt uneducated and primitive and stuff - but they never was a 'sub-human, post-primate' 'race' of folk like in the geico ads. :D

[Hagbard Celine]

You should know, the answer is zero...because Cavemen (like, evolutionary cavemen) likely never existed. Not to say folk were'nt uneducated and primitive and stuff - but they never was a 'sub-human, post-primate' 'race' of folk like in the geico ads. :D

Your claims are not supported by fossil evidence (shrug)

[crin63]

No, no, no, this isn't about evolution vs. creation, buddy, you put that nowhere in the OP. What you put in was that evolution was worthy only as target practice, that's hate, not "I don't believe in it", hate. I don't believe in Buddhism, but it's not hate, because I do not take any time out of my day, busy or not, to take a swipe at it. You did, apparently, and are even willing to pay for ammunition.

I'm not afraid of creationism, but given that we are only missing one link in the chain to prove it, hence why it is still a theory.

Now, which Creationism are you talking about anyhow? Because, from my perspective, every single religion on the planet has their own mutually exclusive one, and no, schools do not have time to cover them all, it just wouldn't work. If you are so worried about your children's education, either put them in catholic school, where they'll have a theology course, or, if that's not an option, there's homeschooling, or, just a thought here, being active with your local church, and leading by example. None of these however, require you shooting perfectly good textbooks, which is the only thing you brought to this debate.

It has nothing to do with hate. I just was out shooting and why shoot at something of value. I also shot at some clay pigeons with my rifle. That was kinda fun. I shot at the narrow side and not the wide side while they were spinning. It's more challenging that way.

You make a very good point. Evolution is only theory its not backed up by facts including observational science. Show me the facts if it is.

I've been very active in my local church for 13 years. I'm there 4 times a week or about 15 hours a week. I've been studying the Bible for 13 years and my kids do go to a Christian school.

I would beg to differ that they are perfectly good text books. Since they teach a lie and promote a secular humanist religion how is that good.

[Yurt]

Sure you are.



No-one is.



In Sunday School? In Church?



What faith?


Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence? (http://www.bartleby.com/61/84/F0018400.html) Nonsense.

why not. the religion of athiesm is taught in schools. the belief/faith that god does not exist and did not create our universe is taught, so why not have both side by side if people are not afraid of creationism?

[diuretic]

Atheism - and agnosticism for that matter - isn't a religion, it's a state of mind. Having a personal belief in that there is no supernatural creator being is a personal conviction, it's not a religion.

Creationism is religion and it's best taught in a religous context. It isn't science and that's been proven. You could call woodworking science and you'd be closer to proving it a science than proving creationism is science.

I must say I'm surprised at some of the posts in this thread. I wasn't taking them seriously but reading through I really do think you blokes actually believe this stuff. It's a bit of a worry, otherwise apparently intelligent people making absured and plain wrong claims.

[Missileman]

why not. the religion of athiesm is taught in schools. the belief/faith that god does not exist and did not create our universe is taught, so why not have both side by side if people are not afraid of creationism?

No problem...mind if I choose which version of Creationism gets taught, or does it have to be your version?

[LOki]

why not. the religion of athiesm is taught in schools.

What schools teach that there is no God? I have not heard of this.


the belief/faith that god does not exist and did not create our universe is taught,...

Where is this taught? Exactly where.

Not teaching that God created the world IS NOT the same thing as teaching that God did not create the world.

[Hagbard Celine]

What schools teach that there is no God? I have not heard of this.



Where is this taught? Exactly where.

Not teaching that God created the world IS NOT the same thing as teaching that God did not create the world.

By Jove it's true!
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d110/josh_1413/amazed.jpg