Canada fines Christian pastor

[avatar4321]

http://nlsngrc.blogspot.com/2008/06/canada-tells-anti-gay-pastor-to-shut-up.html

For speaking up against homosexuality.

[Yurt]

the devil has ACLU counsel, be careful

[darin]

Won't be too long before MOST christians are jailed/fined/killed for their beliefs.

[hjmick]

I'm waiting for the first lawsuits that will arise when a church refuses to marry a gay couple. It will happen.

[crin63]

Most of the rest of you are safe for the time being and will have a heads up that its on the way because it will start here in California first.

[actsnoblemartin]

NOOOOOOOOOOO

bend over and accept homosexuality :laugh2:


http://nlsngrc.blogspot.com/2008/06/canada-tells-anti-gay-pastor-to-shut-up.html

For speaking up against homosexuality.

[Dilloduck]

NOOOOOOOOOOO

bend over and accept homosexuality :laugh2:

Cmon dude! Are you forgetting the "teaching moments" ?:laugh2:

[crin63]

I'm waiting for the first lawsuits that will arise when a church refuses to marry a gay couple. It will happen.

The churches need to rewrite their constitutions to avoid that. My pastor isn't obligated to perform any marriages or funerals. Its strictly his choice and he does say no.

[My Winter Storm]

The church should have to marry gay people if they do not wish to. It isn't really fair for a gay couple to expect them to ignore their beliefs - even I know that, lol.

[My Winter Storm]

As for the pastor in question, he compared gays to drug dealers and pedophiles. I'd be offended if someone even suggested I was a pedophile.
I'm happy he got fined, he really needs to tone his opinions down a little.

[hjmick]

The church should have to marry gay people if they do not wish to. It isn't really fair for a gay couple to expect them to ignore their beliefs - even I know that, lol.

While common sense would lead one to think this concept obvious, past events lead me to believe that it will take a lawsuit to make the point clear.

As a side bar, should a devoutly Christian photographer be forced to photograph a gay wedding?

[avatar4321]

The church should have to marry gay people if they do not wish to. It isn't really fair for a gay couple to expect them to ignore their beliefs - even I know that, lol.

Well, if you go by the actual definition of marriage, its impossible for anyone to marry gay people. But language appears to be changing.

However, I think its foolish to think much of this isnt being done explicitly for people to use the government and force people to "ignore their beliefs"

[avatar4321]

As for the pastor in question, he compared gays to drug dealers and pedophiles. I'd be offended if someone even suggested I was a pedophile.
I'm happy he got fined, he really needs to tone his opinions down a little.

If you believe all of those are immoral, how is it wrong to compare them? And why should he be fined for his statements?

[My Winter Storm]

If you believe all of those are immoral, how is it wrong to compare them? And why should he be fined for his statements?

Possibly his comments could lead to people believing homosexuals are also pedophiles and doing a little pedo bashing. It's possible this guy could incite people to attack homosexuals because they wrongly assume they are also child molesters.
There is no link between homosexuality and pedophila, and suggesting such a thing is dangerous - especially to homosexuals themselves.

[My Winter Storm]

While common sense would lead one to think this concept obvious, past events lead me to believe that it will take a lawsuit to make the point clear.

As a side bar, should a devoutly Christian photographer be forced to photograph a gay wedding?

No, Christian photographers should not have to photograph a gay marriage if they do not wish to. It isn't fair of a gay couple to expect a Christian photographer to take pictures of their wedding, just as it isn't fair to expect the church to marry gay couples when they are against the union of gays.

[crin63]

While common sense would lead one to think this concept obvious, past events lead me to believe that it will take a lawsuit to make the point clear.

I went to a legal seminar for churches a couple years ago. They went over the particulars about how to avoid a lawsuit and what tactics the homosexual community was employing to provoke someone to do something at a church so they could sue the church. I think 2 points need to be made here. Its obviously not all homosexuals and he was an attorney that had represented churches in these type of lawsuits.


If you believe all of those are immoral, how is it wrong to compare them? And why should he be fined for his statements?

I think wherein the problem might lie is the comparison to other sins not just mentioning it along with other sins. I absolutely believe its a sin, I have made that very clear and the ultimate consequence for it will be the same as the other sins mentioned. You cant claim that the sin of homosexuality is the same as extortion except to claim that they are both sins and both will have the same outcome if the person does not repent and come to Christ.
I would have to read the text of the sermon and see the context to determine what I think.
The pastor should have every right to preach directly against homosexuality and would not be executing his duties as a pastor if he didn't.


No, Christian photographers should not have to photograph a gay marriage if they do not wish to. It isn't fair of a gay couple to expect a Christian photographer to take pictures of their wedding, just as it isn't fair to expect the church to marry gay couples when they are against the union of gays.

I have to give you some credit here for your personal opinion on this.

[hjmick]

No, Christian photographers should not have to photograph a gay marriage if they do not wish to. It isn't fair of a gay couple to expect a Christian photographer to take pictures of their wedding, just as it isn't fair to expect the church to marry gay couples when they are against the union of gays.

I would agree, not because I am against gay marriage, I am indifferent. I agree for exactly the reasons you noted. To force that photographer to take the pictures goes against his or her core beliefs. While they may not be beliefs I agree with, I respect them.

This now brings me to the reason I posed the question.

Earlier this year, the New Mexico Human Rights Commission ruled that an evangelical Christian photographer discriminated against a lesbian couple by refusing a job to photograph the couple's same-sex commitment ceremony. The commission ordered the owners of the photgraphy business to pay the lesbian couple $6,600 in attorney fees. The state of New Mexico does not recognize same sex marriage or unions.

This is why I predict a church will be someday be sued for refusing to perform a same sex ceremony. I may ultimately be wrong, but I certainly think it is in the realm of possibility.

[crin63]

This is why I predict a church will be someday be sued for refusing to perform a same sex ceremony. I may ultimately be wrong, but I certainly think it is in the realm of possibility.

If I were still a gambling man I put alot of money down on that one happening. Give it a year or two and it will happen in California.

[Missileman]

If I were still a gambling man I put alot of money down on that one happening. Give it a year or two and it will happen in California.

I'd take that wager. It would be the same thing as a Jewish couple demanding that a Baptist preacher perform a Jewish wedding ceremony and suing because he refused. Any such suit would be laughed out of court.

Now, a justice of the peace will have to perform the civil ceremonies despite any personal objections he might have.

[My Winter Storm]

This now brings me to the reason I posed the question.

Earlier this year, the New Mexico Human Rights Commission ruled that an evangelical Christian photographer discriminated against a lesbian couple by refusing a job to photograph the couple's same-sex commitment ceremony. The commission ordered the owners of the photgraphy business to pay the lesbian couple $6,600 in attorney fees. The state of New Mexico does not recognize same sex marriage or unions.


I heard the same story, and read it in the newspapers. I thought it was incredibly selfish of the gay couple to expect the photographer to put aside his beliefs and take their photos.
They could have easily hired another photographer, but instead chose to push their agenda by taking him to court.
Not fair, IMO.

[hjmick]

I heard the same story, and read it in the newspapers. I thought it was incredibly selfish of the gay couple to expect the photographer to put aside his beliefs and take their photos.
They could have easily hired another photographer, but instead chose to push their agenda by taking him to court.
Not fair, IMO.

That's what I thought as well. It's a shame not everyone is as reasonable as we are Sharon. If that were the case, things would make a whole lot more sense. It's incidents like this one in N.M. that lead me to believe there will one day be a lawsuit against a church because it refuses to perform a same sex wedding.

The church may win, but I do think it will happen.

[My Winter Storm]

That's what I thought as well. It's a shame not everyone is as reasonable as we are Sharon. If that were the case, things would make a whole lot more sense. It's incidents like this one in N.M. that lead me to believe there will one day be a lawsuit against a church because it refuses to perform a same sex wedding.

The church may win, but I do think it will happen.

I wouldn't be surprised if it does happen, but the curch will win, and the gay community will be made out to look like they are pushing their agenda, which in this case, they would be.
It's not fair for gay people to claim discrimination, and unfairness for having heterosexuality forced upon them, yet get angered when you fail at pushing your homosexuality upon someone else.
There must be respect from both sides.

[hjmick]

I wouldn't be surprised if it does happen, but the curch will win, and the gay community will be made out to look like they are pushing their agenda, which in this case, they would be.
It's not fair for gay people to claim discrimination, and unfairness for having heterosexuality forced upon them, yet get angered when you fail at pushing your homosexuality upon someone else.
There must be respect from both sides.

We seem to be on the same page on this one.