McCain or Obama? Obama or McCain?

[Hagbard Celine]

I know it's early in the race, but I haven't been able to make up my mind about who to vote for. Honestly I like both candidates. I even liked Hillary well enough.
I like Obama a lot. He's young, idealistic and smart, but I also like McCain. He seems like a good guy and a year or two ago before Obama came into the fray I'd have jumped at the chance to vote for McCain. I've heard him say a lot of things I agree with, especially on energy policy.
Both candidates also have a few minor downsides. I don't like all that business about Obama's hootinanny church. Part of me thinks that something's wrong with a guy who would sit through that crap for 20 years. Then again, he seems very docile and seemingly un-divisive when he speaks--not like his radical pastor at all and his education and professional backgrounds are very impressive.
And as for McCain, he's a lobbyist lapdog, bought and paid for and I hate lobbyists. Not to mention he's ancient and seemingly out of touch on a lot of social issues and he's a Bush apologist.
I think both candidates are impressive and it'll be a while until I throw my chicken into one ring or the other.

[glockmail]

I know it's early in the race, but I haven't been able to make up my mind about who to vote for. Honestly I like both candidates. I even liked Hillary well enough.
I like Obama a lot. He's young, idealistic and smart, but I also like McCain. He seems like a good guy and a year or two ago before Obama came into the fray I'd have jumped at the chance to vote for McCain. I've heard him say a lot of things I agree with, especially on energy policy.
Both candidates also have a few minor downsides. I don't like all that business about Obama's hootinanny church. Part of me thinks that something's wrong with a guy who would sit through that crap for 20 years. Then again, he seems very docile and seemingly un-divisive when he speaks--not like his radical pastor at all and his education and professional backgrounds are very impressive.
And as for McCain, he's a lobbyist lapdog, bought and paid for and I hate lobbyists. Not to mention he's ancient and seemingly out of touch on a lot of social issues and he's a Bush apologist.
I think both candidates are impressive and it'll be a while until I throw my chicken into one ring or the other.
You fool no one with this stab at open mindedness. You like the socialist agenda of Obama, and you can rid yourself of some of the white guilt at the same time: You're an Obamite. :slap:

[Hagbard Celine]

You fool no one with this stab at open mindedness. You like the socialist agenda of Obama, and you can rid yourself of some of the white guilt at the same time: You're an Obamite. :slap:

I really am open-minded about the candidates. You've said yourself that McCain is a "liberal" republican. He's got years of experience. A military background. And some good ideas. I could definately see myself voting for him if Obama loses all the debates and ends up being an empty suit.

[stephanie]

Hag is so into the boy king, I would expect to read that he was one who fainted at one of his rallies...:coffee:

[Hagbard Celine]

Hag is so into the boy king, I would expect to read that he was one who fainted at one of his rallies...:coffee:

Hardy har har. I was hoping this thread would turn into an ernest discussion about the pros and cons of both candidates, but I see that you guys are way too partisan for that to ever happen.

[glockmail]

I really am open-minded about the candidates. You've said yourself that McCain is a "liberal" republican. He's got years of experience. A military background. And some good ideas. I could definately see myself voting for him if Obama loses all the debates and ends up being an empty suit.
Why does he have to lose all the debates? who decides the winner, the ACLU? Gimme a break man.

You're in the tank for Obama- no question. Here's how I can prove it, if you can be honest:

Think about wearing an Obama ball cap as you walk through the retail areas of your town. You know, where the Starbucks is, the used CD shops, the alternative clothing stores that thrive in any college town. Stop and talk to anyone who comments. The next day, do the same thing, but wear a McCain cap instead.

Which one makes you more uncomfortable?

[glockmail]

Hardy har har. I was hoping this thread would turn into an ernest discussion about the pros and cons of both candidates, but I see that you guys are way too partisan for that to ever happen.
I'm not afraid to admit that I'm partisan, because I don't believe that its a bad thing.

[Hagbard Celine]

Why does he have to lose all the debates? who decides the winner, the ACLU? Gimme a break man.

You're in the tank for Obama- no question. Here's how I can prove it, if you can be honest:

Think about wearing an Obama ball cap as you walk through the retail areas of your town. You know, where the Starbucks is, the used CD shops, the alternative clothing stores that thrive in any college town. Stop and talk to anyone who comments. The next day, do the same thing, but wear a McCain cap instead.

Which one makes you more uncomfortable?

All hats make me uncomfortable. All I can think of is the hat hair I'll have after I take it off. (shrug)
I get what you're saying, but all you've done is assume that I only hang out in "liberal" areas around other "liberals." Granted, I don't go to honkytonks or the Baptist Student Union or anything like that, but I think it's kinda funny that you think liberals are everywhere as if I wouldn't encounter anyone who would appreciate me in my support for McCain. Some of my best friends are conservatives. I also think it's funny that you think I hang out in vintage clothing shops and at Starbucks. I'm not a latte lib. :coffee:
And I don't know where the comment about the ACLU came from. What I meant was that the debates are really where you see the differences between the candidates. If Obama lost debate after debate or didn't impress me, it would be a big factor in deciding my vote--it wouldn't be the only one, but you get the idea.

[Hagbard Celine]

I'm not afraid to admit that I'm partisan, because I don't believe that its a bad thing.

Being extreme in anything is always a bad thing. Moderation is your fwiend.

[stephanie]

Being extreme in anything is always a bad thing. Moderation is your fwiend.

who's your fwiend, you silly wabbit..:laugh2:

[glockmail]

All hats make me uncomfortable. All I can think of is the hat hair I'll have after I take it off. (shrug)
I get what you're saying, but all you've done is assume that I only hang out in "liberal" areas around other "liberals." Granted, I don't go to honkytonks or anything like that, but I think it's kinda funny that you think liberals are everywhere as if I wouldn't encounter anyone who would appreciate me in my support for McCain.
And I don't know where the comment about the ACLU came from. What I meant was that the debates are really where you see the differences between the candidates. If Obama lost debate after debate or didn't impress me, it would be a big factor in deciding my vote--it wouldn't be the only one, but you get the idea.The ACLU comment came from the fact that the press is in the tank for Obama, and he would have to scream "fuck whitey" not just once, but over and over again, in order to lose a debate in their view.

The only thing that I assumed about that last post was that College Park was a liberal town, and, that being the case, you would be considered a "friend" with the Obama cap, and an "enemy" with the McCain cap. But I admit that wasn't quite fair or accurate a test.

So try this: envision wearing opposing Tee shirts on successive days and go wherever you want, then answer the same question.

[glockmail]

Being extreme in anything is always a bad thing. Moderation is your fwiend. Wrong- it means that you are passionate about your beliefs. Just like the Founders of this country, guys that volunteer for the military, people who build habitat homes, religious leaders, or the great actors, athletes, business tycoons and yes, a few politicians, that we all look up to, or hate. Moderates are boring losers that drive little brown sedans, eat KFC 4 times a week and watch network TV 5 hours a day. They don’t have a moral compass or a defensible opinion about anything.

[5stringJeff]

McCain or Obama? Obama or McCain?

Neither.

[Hagbard Celine]

Wrong- it means that you are passionate about your beliefs. Just like the Founders of this country, guys that volunteer for the military, people who build habitat homes, religious leaders, or the great actors, athletes, business tycoons and yes, a few politicians, that we all look up to, or hate. Moderates are boring losers that drive little brown sedans, eat KFC 4 times a week and watch network TV 5 hours a day. They don’t have a moral compass or a defensible opinion about anything.

I agree that moderates are lame and that network tv sucks, but there's a big difference between being passionate and being an extremist. "Everything in moderation."

[Silver]

If your opening post was sincere...(I'm suspect about that)...your post reveals to me that you are indeed an Obomite at heart....you do agree with the liberal social agenda and its just alittle more important to you than you want to let on...
So you will go the Obama route....

You should keep in mind that he has absolutely no experience to be chief exec. of the US ...most Mayors of decent size cities have more experience than him....

He also has no credentials that would lead anyone to believe that he knows or identifies with the military and can fill the role of CIC to the degree necessary.......

Even his legislative experience is somewhat suspect....voting present more often than not is not showing adequate leadership at all....

Hes spent most of his Senate time on the road campaigning instead of attending to the duties of being a Senator....

From his campaigning, I find I cannot agree with his social agenda either....I believe him to be even further left than Hillary, and I could not condone her positions on social issues...and she comes across as moderate compared to Obama....I thought I could at least hold my nose and vote for her if worse came to worse.....

His explanations about Rev. Wright were akin to outright lies...saying what he thought was necessary at any given time.....I can't believe Wright just recently went off the deep end...and to subject your children to that kind of anti-American, hate-filled bigotry is unforgivable....and the insane rants of that priest was just more nails in Obama political coffin....

For all of these reasons, he does not merit my trust or my vote.

[Hagbard Celine]

If your opening post was sincere...(I'm suspect about that)...your post reveals to me that you are indeed an Obomite at heart....you do agree with the liberal social agenda and its just alittle more important to you than you want to let on...
So you will go the Obama route....

You should keep in mind that he has absolutely no experience to be chief exec. of the US ...most Mayors of decent size cities have more experience than him....

He also has no credentials that would lead anyone to believe that he knows or identifies with the military and can fill the role of CIC to the degree necessary.......

Even his legislative experience is somewhat suspect....voting present more often than not is not showing adequate leadership at all....

Hes spent most of his Senate time on the road campaigning instead of attending to the duties of being a Senator....

From his campaigning, I find I cannot agree with his social agenda either....I believe him to be even further left than Hillary, and I could not condone her positions on social issues...and she comes across as moderate compared to Obama....I thought I could at least hold my nose and vote for her if worse came to worse.....

His explanations about Rev. Wright were akin to outright lies...saying what he thought was necessary at any given time.....I can't believe Wright just recently went off the deep end...and to subject your children to that kind of anti-American, hate-filled bigotry is unforgivable....and the insane rants of that priest was just more nails in Obama political coffin....

For all of these reasons, he does not merit my trust or my vote.

Good points all. And yes, I am being sincere. I also agree that Obama isn't really qualified. It's always better imo if presidents have had military experience--it just seems natural. But keep in mind that Abraham Lincoln and FDR--two of the nation's most respected wartime leaders ever--had no military experience, so that's not really an issue with me. However, it is one of McCain's strengths imo.
I don't really see the whole church thing as too big of a deal. Honestly I don't think Obama's religious beliefs influence his professional life very much.

[theHawk]

I don't really understand how anyone could be considering both candidates.
Either you're a shitbag liberal who does not object to socialism and marxism, and doesn't care that Obama thinks its OK for local governments to restrict constitutional rights, or you have a little bit of common sense and reject socialism and any attack on the constitution.
I also think its a cop out for anyone to say they'd vote for Obama because he is a great speaker and can restore our image to the rest of the world. Its just an attempt by the liberals and media to try to get people to ignore his voting record and his policies.
Then there is his proposed liberal foreign policy. Regardless of what he is promosing, Obama is not going to pull us out of Iraq entirely. Historically liberal foreign policy has been disastrous for our country. Clinton's apathetic approach to radical Islam leading to 9/11, Carter's mess with Iran, Kennedy's blunders like the Bay of Pigs, Vietnam, and of course bringing the country to the verge of nuclear annihilation.

[Silver]

Good points all. And yes, I am being sincere. I also agree that Obama isn't really qualified. It's always better imo if presidents have had military experience--it just seems natural. But keep in mind that Abraham Lincoln and FDR--two of the nation's most respected wartime leaders ever--had no military experience, so that's not really an issue with me. However, it is one of McCain's strengths imo.
I don't really see the whole church thing as too big of a deal. Honestly I don't think Obama's religious beliefs influence his professional life very much.

Well, I didn't expressly say Obama needed to have served in the military, but he has nothing in his past that would lead one to think of him as a leader in any capacity....(other than being a savvy politician)
No bills ... no speeches...no nothing to give us a clue.....
You just don't vote for him to be the President of US and hope for the best....

And ..I don't question his religious beliefs either.....the rants of Rev. Wright and that lunatic priest have nothing to do with religious beliefs....they were political and anti-American, with a good dose of hate-filled anti-white innuendo...
making claims that the US gov. was killing blacks with HIV is over the top....

Even Oprah couldn't stay in that congregation....whats that reveal about Obama's character.....?

[Hagbard Celine]

I don't really understand how anyone could be considering both candidates.
Either you're a shitbag liberal who does not object to socialism and marxism, and doesn't care that Obama thinks its OK for local governments to restrict constitutional rights, or you have a little bit of common sense and reject socialism and any attack on the constitution.
I also think its a cop out for anyone to say they'd vote for Obama because he is a great speaker and can restore our image to the rest of the world. Its just an attempt by the liberals and media to try to get people to ignore his voting record and his policies.
Then there is his proposed liberal foreign policy. Regardless of what he is promosing, Obama is not going to pull us out of Iraq entirely. Historically liberal foreign policy has been disastrous for our country. Clinton's apathetic approach to radical Islam leading to 9/11, Carter's mess with Iran, Kennedy's blunders like the Bay of Pigs, Vietnam, and of course bringing the country to the verge of nuclear annihilation.

Clinton's policies aren't what caused 9/11 man. Osama Bin Laden began his vendetta against the US during the first Gulf War when G. Bush Sr. used Saudi Arabia as his staging ground for pushing Saddam's forces back into Iraq. Bin Laden vowed vengeance against us for setting foot on and "soiling" Saudi soil and for interfering in Arab affairs. There was nothing that could've been done to prevent 9/11. Even if someone had gotten suspicious about one of the hijackers when they were taking their flying lessons, it would've taken an in-depth investigation by federal authorities to even find his links to Al Qaeda. And that would only be one of them. They took their lessons at different facilities. We didn't even have the infrastructure to investigate them until after 9/11 and the homeland sec. dept. was set up.
I've never heard the "speaker" argument for Obama and I agree it's lame.
And for the record, I don't object to socialist programs being used in gov't. We already have social security, government pensions, medicare, etc. These policies have problems because conservatives here won't commit to them so they always end up being half-assed and either fail or don't work properly. Socialist programs work very well in almost all of Europe and select Asian nations--and guess what, most of them have capitalist economies. I don't know why you can't look at those examples where these programs work and not come to the conclusion that they could work here.

[Trigg]

If your opening post was sincere...(I'm suspect about that)...your post reveals to me that you are indeed an Obomite at heart....you do agree with the liberal social agenda and its just alittle more important to you than you want to let on...
So you will go the Obama route....

You should keep in mind that he has absolutely no experience to be chief exec. of the US ...most Mayors of decent size cities have more experience than him....

He also has no credentials that would lead anyone to believe that he knows or identifies with the military and can fill the role of CIC to the degree necessary.......

Even his legislative experience is somewhat suspect....voting present more often than not is not showing adequate leadership at all....

Hes spent most of his Senate time on the road campaigning instead of attending to the duties of being a Senator....

From his campaigning, I find I cannot agree with his social agenda either....I believe him to be even further left than Hillary, and I could not condone her positions on social issues...and she comes across as moderate compared to Obama....I thought I could at least hold my nose and vote for her if worse came to worse.....

His explanations about Rev. Wright were akin to outright lies...saying what he thought was necessary at any given time.....I can't believe Wright just recently went off the deep end...and to subject your children to that kind of anti-American, hate-filled bigotry is unforgivable....and the insane rants of that priest was just more nails in Obama political coffin....

For all of these reasons, he does not merit my trust or my vote.

You beat me to it. I would say the bolded parts are my biggest problem with Obama.

As far as McCain. I don't like his stance on illegal immigration, I believe he is still in favor of amnesty which has been proven to encourage more illegals to sneak into the country.

As far as lobbyists Obama doesn't have FEDERAL lobbyists on his campain, he does have state lobbyists which IMO are the same thing. Why is one better than the other????? McCain has fired ALL lobbyists on his campain and challenged Obama to do the same.

[Silver]

Clinton's policies aren't what caused 9/11 man. Osama Bin Laden began his vendetta against the US during the first Gulf War when G. Bush Sr. used Saudi Arabia as his staging ground for pushing Saddam's forces back into Iraq. Bin Laden vowed vengeance against us for setting foot on and "soiling" Saudi soil and for interfering in Arab affairs. There was nothing that could've been done to prevent 9/11. Even if someone had gotten suspicious about one of the hijackers when they were taking their flying lessons, it would've taken an in-depth investigation by federal authorities to even find his links to Al Qaeda. And that would only be one of them. They took their lessons at different facilities. We didn't even have the infrastructure to investigate them until after 9/11 and the homeland sec. dept. was set up.


Excellent....absolutely excellent and absolutely the truth....
I dare say you are the first, the very first, left leaning poster I've ever seen to understand those FACTS you've posted.....kudos...


I've never heard the "speaker" argument for Obama and I agree it's lame.
And for the record, I don't object to socialist programs being used in gov't. We already have social security, government pensions, medicare, etc. These policies have problems because conservatives here won't commit to them so they always end up being half-assed and either fail or don't work properly. Socialist programs work very well in almost all of Europe and select Asian nations--and guess what, most of them have capitalist economies. I don't know why you can't look at those examples where these programs work and not come to the conclusion that they could work here.

Most, if not all, what you might refer to as a "socialist" program really is not...
Pensions? Soc. Sec...?

We have programs to address a distinct group of people that either cannot care for themselves due to some personal problem or our older citizens that need special care and certainly deserve it from their government....

These are not 'socialist' at all....
but....
Some have evolved into ... and lean to socialism more than they did at their conception due to Democratic influence and tinkering....

[Hagbard Celine]

Most, if not all, what you might refer to as a "socialist" program really is not...
Pensions? Soc. Sec...?

We have programs to address a distinct group of people that either cannot care for themselves due to some personal problem or our older citizens that need special care and certainly deserve it from their government....

These are not 'socialist' at all....
but....
Some have evolved into ... and lean to socialism more than they did at their conception due to Democratic influence and tinkering....

Thanks? I saw a PBS special on Bush Sr.'s presidency and it went over all that business about Osama and the Gulf War. Bush Sr. was a great president--the reason he didn't get re-elected is because he was arrogant about having to campaign again and he ended-up being pretty out of touch with voters at the end of his term. He thought his achievements (and they were great) would stand on their own, but he misjudged the fickle and forgetful nature of the American public. That, plus the Clinton political machine was pretty much unstoppable.
And I agree wholeheartedly with what you're saying about our social programs, but you have to admit that they're still "social" programs--i.e. "socialist" programs. We don't have a purely capitalist system here and my main point is that true socialist programs like universal healthcare work really well in other countries and those countries haven't sacrificed their capitalist marketplaces to get it. My point is that could be us, but we're so concerned with bickering with each other over wedge issues like abortion and gay marriage that it gets pushed under the rug and when it does get brought up again some yahoo shouts "socialism!" and everybody pretends like he has a point. It's really frustrating if you ask me.

[theHawk]

Clinton's policies aren't what caused 9/11 man. Osama Bin Laden began his vendetta against the US during the first Gulf War when G. Bush Sr. used Saudi Arabia as his staging ground for pushing Saddam's forces back into Iraq. Bin Laden vowed vengeance against us for setting foot on and "soiling" Saudi soil and for interfering in Arab affairs. There was nothing that could've been done to prevent 9/11. Even if someone had gotten suspicious about one of the hijackers when they were taking their flying lessons, it would've taken an in-depth investigation by federal authorities to even find his links to Al Qaeda. And that would only be one of them. They took their lessons at different facilities. We didn't even have the infrastructure to investigate them until after 9/11 and the homeland sec. dept. was set up.
Clinton could of done alot to prevent 9/11. His blantant disregard and cowardice after multiple attacks against US targets across the globe during his Presidency went unanswered. Osama himself said that the inaction of the US in response to those attacks emboldened him and his followers to start planning major attacks in the US.



I've never heard the "speaker" argument for Obama and I agree it's lame.
And for the record, I don't object to socialist programs being used in gov't. We already have social security, government pensions, medicare, etc. These policies have problems because conservatives here won't commit to them so they always end up being half-assed and either fail or don't work properly. Socialist programs work very well in almost all of Europe and select Asian nations--and guess what, most of them have capitalist economies. I don't know why you can't look at those examples where these programs work and not come to the conclusion that they could work here.
How are we only commiting to these socialist programs "half-assed"? We're being taxed in huge amounts to support these broken systems. The problem is they are managed by the government and they are mandatory. If they were privatized and voluntary I think they'd be fine programs. And I am sorry if I can't look at Euro countries that have socialist programs because they are very small countries with usually just a few large cities, whereas we are almost an entire continent with a huge amount of immigrants (legal and illegal). I am not totally against social programs, but I think they are better done at the state level.

[Hagbard Celine]

Clinton could of done alot to prevent 9/11. His blantant disregard and cowardice after multiple attacks against US targets across the globe during his Presidency went unanswered. Osama himself said that the inaction of the US in response to those attacks emboldened him and his followers to start planning major attacks in the US.

I'm going to have to disagree with you here man. You can make a case that Bush dropped the ball just as much as Clinton supposedly did. You remember the "Bin Laden determined to strike in US" memo that sat on Bush's desk for the first year of his presidency? The truth is that nobody could have stopped 911 from happening unless God himself had reached down and laid it out piece by piece for some CIA guy to see it. The awful truth that we have to acknowledge is that anybody can attack us at any time if they are secretive and determined enough to do so and it's nobody's fault, it's just the human condition.

[gabosaurus]

Hanoi John McCain = continuation of the War in Iraq; escalation of hostilities with other Middle East nations; increased risk of a major terrorist attack, due to his harsh views; continued pandering to illegal aliens; increased visibility by special interest groups.
If you have forgiven Jane Fonda, vote for McCain.

[stephanie]

typical liberal-blaming their own country for the terrorist attacking us..

Funny we were attacted even when Democrats were Presidents..How the hell did that happen?

Don't Forget-vote the boy wonder in and all will be GREAT WITH THE WHOLE WORLD...yeehaaaaaaaa:cheers2:

[gabosaurus]

The United States was attacked by a foreign adversary. Who was not only never punished, but pretty much disregarded by our elected leader.
Instead, our leader used the attack as an excuse to dispose of a hated rival, who had nothing at all to do with the attack.
This was the policy of G.W. Bush. This is what you will continue to get with Hanoi John McCain.
Unless he decides to collaborate with the terrorists.

[Silver]

Koolade kickin' in pretty good there Gabber....

Actually, your post is too silly and stupid to warrant a reply...if you believe what you post, you're already a lost cause and rational debate is lost on you....

Shows you definitely do swallow....

[manu1959]

The United States was attacked by a foreign adversary. Who was not only never punished, but pretty much disregarded by our elected leader.
Instead, our leader used the attack as an excuse to dispose of a hated rival, who had nothing at all to do with the attack.
This was the policy of G.W. Bush. This is what you will continue to get with Hanoi John McCain.
Unless he decides to collaborate with the terrorists.

i actually hope obama wins just so i can see your reaction when he can't pull the troops out after he gets his first national security briefing.....

[midcan5]

I really am open-minded about the candidates. You've said yourself that McCain is a "liberal" republican. He's got years of experience. A military background. And some good ideas. I could definately see myself voting for him if Obama loses all the debates and ends up being an empty suit.

McCain was liberal until he had to sell his soul to the republican church. It would be curious to see how he operates as prez, as once in, he can throw out the temporary pass. Only his war stance bothers me, we are not a nation who imposes its will on another sovereign nation just because they are different.

[Sitarro]

I know it's early in the race, but I haven't been able to make up my mind about who to vote for. Honestly I like both candidates. I even liked Hillary well enough.
I like Obama a lot. He's young, idealistic and smart, but I also like McCain. He seems like a good guy and a year or two ago before Obama came into the fray I'd have jumped at the chance to vote for McCain. I've heard him say a lot of things I agree with, especially on energy policy.
Both candidates also have a few minor downsides. I don't like all that business about Obama's hootinanny church. Part of me thinks that something's wrong with a guy who would sit through that crap for 20 years. Then again, he seems very docile and seemingly un-divisive when he speaks--not like his radical pastor at all and his education and professional backgrounds are very impressive.
And as for McCain, he's a lobbyist lapdog, bought and paid for and I hate lobbyists. Not to mention he's ancient and seemingly out of touch on a lot of social issues and he's a Bush apologist.
I think both candidates are impressive and it'll be a while until I throw my chicken into one ring or the other.

Obama's a lawyer, they are paid to defend murderers and rapist, to lie to get them off and basically are professional bullshitters. Take a trip to the South side of Chicago, the place where Obama promised to CHANGE. You'll be able to pick up plenty of BMW spare parts on the side of the road, they may be burnt to a crisp but it's full of them there. I wouldn't have sat through a sermon by that illiterate, dip shit racist......... not to mention the awful gospel singing that went on ad nauseam, what intelligent person would? And Barrack gave a lot of money, his and the taxpayers to that shit's church and that other fag priest's church, he's an idiot and a rube and only a fool would vote for him.

[glockmail]

...we are not a nation who imposes its will on another sovereign nation just because they are different.
You're really completely clueless, aren't you?