Christians face arrest for preaching gospel

[dread]

Two American-born pastors handing out gospel leaflets in a predominantly Muslim area of Birmingham, England, were threatened with arrest and warned of being beaten for committing what an officer called a "hate crime."

Arthur Cunningham, 48, and Joseph Abraham, 65, were handing out the leaflets and talking with local youths when they were approached and questioned by a police community support officer, or PCSO.

When the officer discovered the two Birmingham pastors were born in the U.S., he began a heated criticism of President Bush and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Cunningham explained that the gospel message was not linked to American foreign policy, but the officer reportedly became belligerent.

"He said we were in a Muslim area and were not allowed to spread our Christian message," Cunningham told the London Telegraph. "He said we were committing a hate crime by telling the youths to leave Islam and said that he was going to take us to the police station."



http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=65922



Britians politics will bring her to her knees...But then I guess England would love to suck muslim dick?

[Gaffer]

You can bet the "policeman" was a muslim.

[avatar4321]

freedom of religion is a hate crime now? how ridiculous.

[dread]

Not freedom of religion...Just freedom FROM christianity is a hate crime...That seems to be where international politics is going.

[crin63]

America is only a few years away from the very same things happening here unless we turn things around quickly.

Preaching against specific sins, not just sin in general and proclaiming the gospel of Jesus Christ will be hate crimes. Pointing out what The Bible says is sin without interpreting it will land you in jail.

I fully expect my church to come under attack soon here in the Peoples Republic of California. Saturday night my church and school took a very strong stand against the homosexual agenda in California schools on a television program.

[dread]

America is only a few years away from the very same things happening here unless we turn things around quickly.

Preaching against specific sins, not just sin in general and proclaiming the gospel of Jesus Christ will be hate crimes. Pointing out what The Bible says is sin without interpreting it will land you in jail.

I fully expect my church to come under attack soon here in the Peoples Republic of California. Saturday night my church and school took a very strong stand against the homosexual agenda in California schools on a television program.



Yup! That is a hate crime.

[Hagbard Celine]

Britians politics will bring her to her knees...But then I guess England would love to suck muslim dick?

"Imbecile" isn't a strong enough word.

[dread]

"Imbecile" isn't a strong enough word.

I noticed you couldnt even dispute the facts nor offer up any solution. But then you probably WANT the world to become Islamizised.

[Hagbard Celine]

I noticed you couldnt even dispute the facts nor offer up any solution. But then you probably WANT the world to become Islamizised.

Again, I'm trying to find a word stronger than "imbecile" but I just can't.

And since you're apparently so dense that you actually need me to teach you why your opinion here is stupid, here you go:


Christians 'told not to preach'
Two Christians claim a police community support officer told them to stop leafleting in an area of east Birmingham where many Muslims live.

The Christian Institute has complained to West Midlands Police the men were told to leave Alum Rock Road.

The US Christians said they were advised they were committing a hate crime by trying to convert Muslims.

West Midlands Police has investigated the complaint and said the officer intervened to defuse a row.

Arthur Cunningham and Joseph Abraham, a pastor at Grace Bible Fellowship Church, in Saltley, Birmingham, had been distributing leaflets in nearby Alum Rock on 19 February when the police support officer (PCSO) intervened.

Apology demanded

They claimed he warned them to leave the area, saying: "If you come back here and get beat up, well you have been warned."

Mr Cunningham and Mr Abraham then agreed to leave.

The men, backed by the Christian Institute, have complained to the force, saying their human rights were infringed.

They have also demanded an apology and damages.

A West Midlands Police spokeswoman said the complaint had been investigated by the force.

She said: "The investigation concluded that the PCSO acted with the best of intentions when he intervened to diffuse a heated argument between two groups of men."

The spokeswoman added that following the investigation the PCSO had been offered "guidance around what constitutes a hate crime as well as his communication style".
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/7430085.stm

If you would read something other than ludicrously biased dredge your worldview just might become what professionals refer to as "rational."
The two idiots involved in this "row" were told to leave for their own safety. Apparently Muslims don't enjoy being harrassed about leaving their religion. Wow. I know that may be news to you, but the next time Christians get arrested in the Middle East for handing-out Bibles in the middle of Baghdad or told to leave after hassling Muslims into leaving Islam, try not to be so surprised.

[dread]

Again, I'm trying to find a word stronger than "imbecile" but I just can't.

Keep trying...I know it is hard for that puny brain of yours to come up with a nastier name AND STILL no debate that my conclusion is way off base.

[Hagbard Celine]

Keep trying...I know it is hard for that puny brain of yours to come up with a nastier name AND STILL no debate that my conclusion is way off base.

Apparently you're incapable of reading my post. No wonder--it all makes sense now. :laugh:

[midcan5]

In the fine print of Worldnetdaily, there is a disclaimer:

WND is meant for dimwits, dolts, dumbbells, dummies, dunces, fools, idiots, jerks, morons, nitwits, simpletons, asses, jackasses, nincompoops, brainless people, and other semi conscious people. All others may experience laughing spasms that can be serious dependent on how heavy the baloney is that day.

[Hagbard Celine]

In the fine print of Worldnetdaily, there is a disclaimer:

WND is meant for dimwits, dolts, dumbbells, dummies, dunces, fools, idiots, jerks, morons, nitwits, simpletons, asses, jackasses, nincompoops, brainless people, and other semi conscious people. All others may experience laughing spasms that can be serious dependent on how heavy the baloney is that day.

I even posted the real story from the BBC and he/she/it accused me of "having no debate." Honestly I don't even know why I try anymore. Talking sense into these yahoos is like pushing against a brick wall--you get absolutely nowhere and all you have to show for it at the end is a dull headache.

[PostmodernProphet]

Apparently you're incapable of reading my post. No wonder--it all makes sense now. :laugh:


I read your post and it made no sense.....nowhere does the article say anything that should lead you to conclude they were asked to leave for their own safety....in fact, the OP says that when they were approached by the police officer they were "talking with local youths"...not "being threatened" by local youths, not "being chased by" local youths, not even "in danger of" local youths.....

so basically, your argument is based on something you just made up......

[Hagbard Celine]

I read your post and it made no sense.....nowhere does the article say anything that should lead you to conclude they were asked to leave for their own safety....in fact, the OP says that when they were approached by the police officer they were "talking with local youths"...not "being threatened" by local youths, not "being chased by" local youths, not even "in danger of" local youths.....

so basically, your argument is based on something you just made up......

Except that in the article I posted the officer is said to have warned the youths in question and is quoted as saying, "If you come back here and get beat up, well you have been warned."
So apparently you can't read either. I'm not surprised. Illiteracy and conservatism seem to go hand-in-hand on this board. Not that there aren't exceptions to the rule, it just seems to be a trend.

[stephanie]

here's an article from their newspaper on it, with comments..

You can't preach the Bible here, this is a Muslim area
(What a community policeman told two Christians)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1023483/You-preach-Bible-Muslim-area.html

[crin63]

My personal opinion is, "Way To Go Guys" for preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ to Muslims. The Muslims need to hear the truth, no matter many Liberals or Muslims it offends.

[Hagbard Celine]

My personal opinion is, "Way To Go Guys" for preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ to Muslims. The Muslims need to hear the truth, no matter many Liberals or Muslims it offends.

Hey, if these morons want to march up and down the streets of the Muslim ghetto and piss Arabs off then by all means, they should do it. I can live with the consequences, it's just that I don't think they can. :laugh:

[Trigg]

Hey, if these morons want to march up and down the streets of the Muslim ghetto and piss Arabs off then by all means, they should do it. I can live with the consequences, it's just that I don't think they can. :laugh:

He may or may not have been acting in their best interrest in advising them to leave.

This line in the article is suspect through
A statement added: 'Following this investigation, the PCSO has been offered guidance about what constitutes a hate crime and advice on communication style.'

Obviously the men being guilty of a hate crime was mentioned by the officer other wise they wouldn't be offering him guidance on what constitutes a hate crime. Sounds like the men were being threatened by the cop IMHO.

[Hagbard Celine]

He may or may not have been acting in their best interrest in advising them to leave.

This line in the article is suspect through

Obviously the men being guilty of a hate crime was mentioned by the officer other wise they wouldn't be offering him guidance on what constitutes a hate crime. Sounds like the men were being threatened by the cop IMHO.

I think he was just trying to diffuse a difficult situation so he said what he needed to to get a couple of rabble rousers out of the neighborhood.

[Trigg]

I think he was just trying to diffuse a difficult situation so he said what he needed to to get a couple of rabble rousers out of the neighborhood.

By threatening them with a hate crime???????????

That's way out of line. From the article the men didn't feel threatened by anyone other than the officer.

[Hagbard Celine]

By threatening them with a hate crime???????????

That's way out of line. From the article the men didn't feel threatened by anyone other than the officer.

He was obviously trying to get them out of the area before any conflict between them and the Muslims escalated. He may have been technically wrong in his wording, but he did the right thing imo. As good intentioned as they might be (which is debatable imo--I think they do things like this to make some ill-conceived political point), you're asking for trouble when you go into a Muslim neighborhood knowing full-well what their beliefs are and trying to convert them to a different religion. They were there to get in the news and rabble rouse. Now they've got themselves a nice juicy controversy to salivate over for a little while. :rolleyes:

[stephanie]

Remember that tolerance..........we are suppose to show it, but they don't have to..Enjoy:cheers2:

[Hagbard Celine]

Remember that tolerance..........we are suppose to show it, but they don't have to..Enjoy:cheers2:

Oh please stop it. Saying what you've said only works when you're tolerant to begin with and we all know you're not. Inane smarmy remarks are fine as long as they're well thought-out. The thing with yours is that they usually don't make any sense.
You have to employ logic here. Of course Muslims are supposed to be just as tolerant as we are, but there are common sense limits. We do live in reality after all. You wouldn't expect anyone to tolerate it if a Muslim group came to a Christian area to try and convert them to Islam so get off your high horse.
And from what I've seen, the Muslims WERE tolerating them, it wasn't until this officer showed-up that the controversy began.
I think the officer had the right instinct. The Christians had the right to do what they were doing, but the officer should have handled it differently and should not have use the words "hate crime."

[stephanie]

Oh please stop it. Saying what you've said only works when you're tolerant to begin with and we all know you're not. Inane smarmy remarks are fine as long as they're well thought-out. The thing with yours is that they usually don't make any sense.
You have to employ logic here. Of course Muslims are supposed to be just as tolerant as we are, but there are common sense limits. We do live in reality after all. You wouldn't expect anyone to tolerate it if a Muslim group came to a Christian area to try and convert them to Islam so get off your high horse.
And from what I've seen, the Muslims WERE tolerating them, it wasn't until this officer showed-up that the controversy began.
I think the officer had the right instinct. The Christians had the right to do what they were doing, but the officer should have handled it differently and should not have use the words "hate crime."

Oooooooo, you are so bright and TOLERANT..:dance:

[Trigg]

You have to employ logic here. Of course Muslims are supposed to be just as tolerant as we are, but there are common sense limits. We do live in reality after all. You wouldn't expect anyone to tolerate it if a Muslim group came to a Christian area to try and convert them to Islam so get off your high horse.

Actually I would expect people to tolerate Muslim groups coming into Christian areas. I do see Mormons all the time trying to convert people. Your either receptive to their views or your not and you ask them to leave. Beating a person up because they're trying to introduce a different religion is backwards.

And from what I've seen, the Muslims WERE tolerating them, it wasn't until this officer showed-up that the controversy began.
Exactly, there was no problem according to the article until the police officer arived and threatened them with a hate crime. The people were tolerating them, again from the article, the officer should have left them alone or stood at a distance in case a problem did arise.



The Muslim officer wanted them out of the area IMO and it had less to do with how others were reacting to the men and more to do with his beliefs.

[Kathianne]

Again, I'm trying to find a word stronger than "imbecile" but I just can't.

And since you're apparently so dense that you actually need me to teach you why your opinion here is stupid, here you go:


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/7430085.stm

If you would read something other than ludicrously biased dredge your worldview just might become what professionals refer to as "rational."
The two idiots involved in this "row" were told to leave for their own safety. Apparently Muslims don't enjoy being harrassed about leaving their religion. Wow. I know that may be news to you, but the next time Christians get arrested in the Middle East for handing-out Bibles in the middle of Baghdad or told to leave after hassling Muslims into leaving Islam, try not to be so surprised.

Do you think a pair of Muslims passing out literature should face censure where I live

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheaton,_Illinois) because it's primarily evangelical?


Religion

Wheaton has 63 churches within its limits, with an additional thirty in the bordering unincorporated areas, and according to the Genus Edition of Trivial Pursuit, there are "more churches per capita than any other town in America".

...Higher education
Wheaton College

Wheaton College is located not far from downtown Wheaton. Its campus features the Billy Graham Center, named for the college's most famous alumnus, which contains a museum dedicated to both the history of American evangelism and the international ministry of Billy Graham. It features conceptual exhibits intended to convey Christian ideas.

Well-known graduates of Wheaton include Wes Craven, Dennis Hastert, John Wesley Powell, Billy Graham, and Todd Beamer. Wheaton's science building exhibits the remains of a mastodon,known as the Perry Mastadon, which were discovered in nearby Glen Ellyn.

Wheaton College is also home to the Marion E. Wade Center, which is a major research collection of materials by and about several British authors, some of whom were part of the group known as the Inklings: Owen Barfield, G. K. Chesterton, C. S. Lewis, George MacDonald, Dorothy L. Sayers, J. R. R. Tolkien, and Charles Williams. Overall, the Wade Center has more than 11,000 volumes including first editions, critical works, personal letters, manuscripts, audio and video tapes, artwork, dissertations, periodicals, photographs, and related materials.[10]...

[Hagbard Celine]

Do you think a pair of Muslims passing out literature should face censure where I live

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheaton,_Illinois) because it's primarily evangelical?

No, but if the 'gelicals and the 'rabs started debating each other and things started to get heated, I think an officer would be wise to step-in and advise them to leave before the situation escalated--which is I think what happened in this case.
I know here it's illegal to ignore an order from an officer. I assume it's the same in England.