Worst president

[midcan5]

Often when debates discuss worst presidents Carter is mentioned, since I was of voting age starting with Nixon .... I always found the Reagan Administration to be the worst till now. (Bush Jr hands down is the worst.) The reason I labeled Reagan the worst was he started the decline of the middle class and reinvented the imperial, aka military, presidency. But Reagan didn't seem to grasp his flag waving would lead to the hubris that made war too easy for some. He did realize quickly his tax policies were voodoo economics. It was the background ideology that grew out of the decline of Russia, Granada, and a Gulf War with a foolish dictator that made so many in power so naive. So it is with interest I read other people's take on this same period and who is the worst. Full disclosure: I voted for Nixon.

http://myrhaf.blogspot.com/2007/05/worst-american-president-in-history.html

"At home Nixon imposed wage and price controls, a purely socialistic intervention in the economy that bumbling Jimmy Carter never could have attempted. He created the Environmental Protection Agency and Occupational Health and Safety Administration, two assaults on liberty that to this day create anti-capitalist regulations that violate rights and hamper the economy. He expanded the welfare state, creating Supplemental Security Income and indexing Social Security to inflation. He created the Drug Enforcement Agency, probably the biggest move in America’s idiotic war on drugs.

But none of these evils is Nixon’s worst moment. He is responsible for the single most destructive act in the history of the American presidency, an act that has destroyed more wealth and worsened more lives than anything before or since. In 1971, as Wikipedia puts it, he “eradicated the last remnants of the gold standard.” This created the inflation crises of the 1970’s and affects us with “moderate” inflation to this day. The high interest rates that Republicans blame Carter for are actually the result of Nixon’s policies."

[82Marine89]

So your opinion is based solely on personal experience? None of the other 39 were worse than those you mentioned?

[namvet]

Carter. he introduced us to terrorists. and ran the prime interst rate to 21%.


Klinton. he brought terrorists to the USA. responsible for the 9-11 attack.

so it should be the worst presidents. no just one.


Carter was not the worst president in history, not even close. Being a typical Democrat, he was just incompetent, and mere incompetence cannot get really bad things done. :laugh2::laugh2:

[ranger]

I would have to agree with Namvet. Carter and Clinton are responsible for the mess the US is today. With their weak willed, poll driven responses to major events when having a bit of a spine would have saved us a lot of trouble.

Most events quoted by Bin Laden to show we are a paper tiger were events that happened during the Carter and Clinton years.

[midcan5]

So your opinion is based solely on personal experience? None of the other 39 were worse than those you mentioned?

That's a funny question for me especially after you read the two subsequent replies. Talk about not knowing a blessed thing! I often wonder at the reading comprehension of the likes of Namvet and Ranger, clearly Reagan/Bush set precedents for terrorism if one only wants to point fingers.

Bush should thanks Clinton for the wonderful military force he is now hurting just as his economic policies have hurt this nation.


In terms of American values, Bush is the worst, he has a ticker tape of wrongs against our democratic republic.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/01/AR2006120101509.html

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/profile/story/9961300/the_worst_president_in_history

http://harpers.org/archive/2008/04/hbc-90002804

“It would be difficult to identify a President who, facing major international and domestic crises, has failed in both as clearly as President Bush,” concluded one respondent. “His domestic policies,” another noted, “have had the cumulative effect of shoring up a semi-permanent aristocracy of capital that dwarfs the aristocracy of land against which the founding fathers rebelled; of encouraging a mindless retreat from science and rationalism; and of crippling the nation’s economic base.”

[April15]

The Iranians and Iraq were both fed by raygun and ollie north. The al quaida in Afghanistan was backed by the raygun machine. The tactics and methods used by al quaida are gratis from our military.
The theory of the enemy of my enemy is my friend should be cast aside as it is a false truism like so many of the republican mantras.

[ranger]

Carter set the stage by allowing a two bit country with no military to hold the country hostage for 444 days. That reduced the US from a superpower to a super joke. Reagan helped by pulling the Marines out of Beirut after the embassy bombing. That also made us look weak. Clinton had the 1st Tower bombing, two embassy bombings, the USS Cole bombing, Kosovo, Bosnia and Somalia. All of these made us look like weak willed simpletons who would run at the first sign of trouble.

So number wise, Clinton wins.

[April15]

Raygun did a good job of training them!

[ranger]

The Iranians and Iraq were both fed by raygun and ollie north. The al quaida in Afghanistan was backed by the raygun machine. The tactics and methods used by al quaida are gratis from our military.
The theory of the enemy of my enemy is my friend should be cast aside as it is a false truism like so many of the republican mantras.

blah, blah, blah.............Have you finished reading the DNC talking points yet? Going to try to have an original thought of your own sometime this century. Go slow, you might sprain something.

[ranger]

Raygun did a good job of training them!

YAWN!

[namvet]

That's a funny question for me especially after you read the two subsequent replies. Talk about not knowing a blessed thing! I often wonder at the reading comprehension of the likes of Namvet and Ranger, clearly Reagan/Bush set precedents for terrorism if one only wants to point fingers.

Bush should thanks Clinton for the wonderful military force he is now hurting just as his economic policies have hurt this nation.


In terms of American values, Bush is the worst, he has a ticker tape of wrongs against our democratic republic.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/01/AR2006120101509.html

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/profile/story/9961300/the_worst_president_in_history

http://harpers.org/archive/2008/04/hbc-90002804

“It would be difficult to identify a President who, facing major international and domestic crises, has failed in both as clearly as President Bush,” concluded one respondent. “His domestic policies,” another noted, “have had the cumulative effect of shoring up a semi-permanent aristocracy of capital that dwarfs the aristocracy of land against which the founding fathers rebelled; of encouraging a mindless retreat from science and rationalism; and of crippling the nation’s economic base.”

and I often wonder at the reading comprehension of the likes of tincan. why don't you tell us why Klinton took a pass on taking out Bin Laden. the only thing you can thank Klinton for is the 3000 he murdered on 9-11. your moot

[gabosaurus]

You people need to look at this from a historical standpoint and not just use the topic to grind your respective political axes.

Many history buffs believe it is tough to find a more inept and corrupt president than Warren G. Harding.
Jimmy Carter is listed as one of the least prepared presidents of the modern era.

Bill Clinton actually gets fairly high marks. Simply because he had to survive a lot of scrutiny and criticism.

Before the Nixon era, the president's personal life was rarely mentioned. Some have had indiscretions that would have the modern media drooling non-stop.

[midcan5]

and I often wonder at the reading comprehension of the likes of tincan. why don't you tell us why Klinton took a pass on taking out Bin Laden. the only thing you can thank Klinton for is the 3000 he murdered on 9-11. your moot

Do you mean Clinton? Last I checked bin laden didn't do 911 or he wouldn't be here - you do realize that much I hope. The BS Clinton could have taken out OBL has been gone over enough that most fifth graders know the circumstances better than you.

Carter inherited the incredible mess Nixon/Ford left. Please google stagflation etc. The original post gives an argument against Nixon. Funny, the author of that piece is obviously conservative/libertarian but most of the things he faults Nixon with are Ok with this me.


http://www.studien-von-zeitfragen.de/Weltfinanz/Stagflation/stagflation.html

http://thejunction.net/justfacts/2008/02/29/stagflation-recounting-nixons-price-controls/

[Dilloduck]

Do you mean Clinton? Last I checked bin laden didn't do 911 or he wouldn't be here - you do realize that much I hope. The BS Clinton could have taken out OBL has been gone over enough that most fifth graders know the circumstances better than you.

Carter inherited the incredible mess Nixon/Ford left. Please google stagflation etc. The original post gives an argument against Nixon. Funny, the author of that piece is obviously conservative/libertarian but most of the things he faults Nixon with are Ok with this me.


http://www.studien-von-zeitfragen.de/Weltfinanz/Stagflation/stagflation.html

http://thejunction.net/justfacts/2008/02/29/stagflation-recounting-nixons-price-controls/

If bin laden didn't "do" 9/11 why is everyone bent out of shape that American troops havent captured him yet ?

[avatar4321]

James Buchanan

[namvet]

If bin laden didn't "do" 9/11 why is everyone bent out of shape that American troops havent captured him yet ?

he did. tincan is to stupid to use the net.

[namvet]

Do you mean Clinton? Last I checked bin laden didn't do 911 or he wouldn't be here - you do realize that much I hope. The BS Clinton could have taken out OBL has been gone over enough that most fifth graders know the circumstances better than you.

Carter inherited the incredible mess Nixon/Ford left. Please google stagflation etc. The original post gives an argument against Nixon. Funny, the author of that piece is obviously conservative/libertarian but most of the things he faults Nixon with are Ok with this me.


http://www.studien-von-zeitfragen.de/Weltfinanz/Stagflation/stagflation.html

http://thejunction.net/justfacts/2008/02/29/stagflation-recounting-nixons-price-controls/


Last I checked bin laden didn't do 911

congrads. your clearly the only 5 year old on here and the planet that dosen't know


A man described as one of Osama bin Laden's closest aides, Abu 'Ubeid Al-Qurashi, has acknowledged that the terrorist network al-Qaida carried out the Sept. 11 attacks against the U.S.

link (link)

story (story)

let me guess. Bush did it. right???? you are pathetic. actually Klinton did it.

[April15]

blah, blah, blah.............Have you finished reading the DNC talking points yet? Going to try to have an original thought of your own sometime this century. Go slow, you might sprain something.I do not need or use anyone elses talking points. I do however remember Iran-Contra and the violation of law that was involved in raygun and norths actions.

Iran-contra affair, in U.S. history, secret arrangement in the 1980s to provide funds to the Nicaraguan contra rebels from profits gained by selling arms to Iran. The Iran-contra affair was the product of two separate initiatives during the administration of President Ronald Reagan. The first was a commitment to aid the contras who were conducting a guerrilla war against the Sandinista government of Nicaragua. The second was to placate “moderates” within the Iranian government in order to secure the release of American hostages held by pro-Iranian groups in Lebanon and to influence Iranian foreign policy in a pro-Western direction.

Despite the strong opposition of the Reagan administration, the Democratic-controlled Congress enacted legislation, known as the Boland amendments, that prohibited the Defense Dept., the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), or any other government agency from providing military aid to the contras from Dec., 1983, to Sept., 1985. The Reagan administration circumvented these limitations by using the National Security Council (NSC), which was not explicitly covered by the law, to supervise covert military aid to the contras. Under Robert McFarlane (1983–85) and John Poindexter (1985–86) the NSC raised private and foreign funds for the contras. This operation was directed by NSC staffer Marine Lt. Col. Oliver North. McFarlane and North were also the central figures in the plan to secretly ship arms to Iran despite a U.S. trade and arms embargo.

That is not a talking point but recorded history! Treason is what repukes would call it if a white boy did it.

[ranger]

I do not need or use anyone elses talking points. I do however remember Iran-Contra and the violation of law that was involved in raygun and norths actions.

Iran-contra affair, in U.S. history, secret arrangement in the 1980s to provide funds to the Nicaraguan contra rebels from profits gained by selling arms to Iran. The Iran-contra affair was the product of two separate initiatives during the administration of President Ronald Reagan. The first was a commitment to aid the contras who were conducting a guerrilla war against the Sandinista government of Nicaragua. The second was to placate “moderates” within the Iranian government in order to secure the release of American hostages held by pro-Iranian groups in Lebanon and to influence Iranian foreign policy in a pro-Western direction.

Despite the strong opposition of the Reagan administration, the Democratic-controlled Congress enacted legislation, known as the Boland amendments, that prohibited the Defense Dept., the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), or any other government agency from providing military aid to the contras from Dec., 1983, to Sept., 1985. The Reagan administration circumvented these limitations by using the National Security Council (NSC), which was not explicitly covered by the law, to supervise covert military aid to the contras. Under Robert McFarlane (1983–85) and John Poindexter (1985–86) the NSC raised private and foreign funds for the contras. This operation was directed by NSC staffer Marine Lt. Col. Oliver North. McFarlane and North were also the central figures in the plan to secretly ship arms to Iran despite a U.S. trade and arms embargo.

That is not a talking point but recorded history! Treason is what repukes would call it if a white boy did it.

And I could counter with Clinton making deals with Chinese intelligence agents to get money for his reeelection, Travelgate, Whitewater, Filegate, Monica and a bunch of other scandals involving the Clinton adminstration. What's the point?

Face facts, Clinton did more harm to the security interests of the United States then any other recent President, closely followed by Jimmy C. Reagan made have blundered when he left Beirut, but he also had the Navy shoot down Libyan fighters and he forced terrorists flying away from a hijacking to land in Italy and be taken in custody.

[April15]

The real fact is raygun did more to the detriment of this nation by accident then any other, even bush, has done on purpose.

[82Marine89]

That's a funny question for me especially after you read the two subsequent replies. Talk about not knowing a blessed thing! I often wonder at the reading comprehension of the likes of Namvet and Ranger, clearly Reagan/Bush set precedents for terrorism if one only wants to point fingers.


I read the blog and it made no comparisons of earlier presidents, so my question stands.

[ranger]

The real fact is raygun did more to the detriment of this nation by accident then any other, even bush, has done on purpose.

:bsflag:


I'm calling BS on this, show some evidence or shut up.

[AFbombloader]

Carter set the stage by allowing a two bit country with no military to hold the country hostage for 444 days. That reduced the US from a superpower to a super joke. Reagan helped by pulling the Marines out of Beirut after the embassy bombing. That also made us look weak. Clinton had the 1st Tower bombing, two embassy bombings, the USS Cole bombing, Kosovo, Bosnia and Somalia. All of these made us look like weak willed simpletons who would run at the first sign of trouble.

So number wise, Clinton wins.

You forgot the Khobar Towers bombing in Saudi Arabia that killed many Air Force Airmen.

AF:salute:

[ranger]

You forgot the Khobar Towers bombing in Saudi Arabia that killed many Air Force Airmen.

AF:salute:

There's just so many of them on Clinton's watch it was hard to remember them all.

[AFbombloader]

Bush should thanks Clinton for the wonderful military force he is now hurting just as his economic policies have hurt this nation.


Really? All Americans should be thankful that we can perform anything as a military after what the Clinton presidency did to us! I lived through it as a young Air Force member. I remember not having enough people, not having enough parts, not having enough of almost anything because he cut our finding so dramatically. The fact that we have recovered says a lot about the military members and that we have adjusted how we do business because of what he did. He cut military spending by 1/3, and reduced the AF squadrons by 1/3. And we still had to do the same missions, or more because of the humanitarian missions that became commonplace.

In 1992, the year before Bill Clinton took office the end strengths were:
Army: 610,450
Navy: 541,883
Marines: 184,529
Air Force: 470,315

In 2000, the year before George W. Bush took office:
Army: 481,669
Navy: 373,692
Marines: 173,371
Air Force: 354,321

Before anyone says it, yes these cuts did start in the Bush 1 administration, but they came to a climax (bad pun) in the Clinton years.

AF:salute:

[ranger]

:bsflag:


I'm calling BS on this, show some evidence or shut up.

The silence from the left is deafening. Guess there isn't any evidence that Reagan did all that much damage. Splat and run back to DU for more "talking" points seems to be the MO.

[April15]

:bsflag:


I'm calling BS on this, show some evidence or shut up.Deregulation has now come home to bite America with the economic problems of corporate profit at the expense of American soverignty.

[midcan5]

If bin laden didn't "do" 9/11 why is everyone bent out of shape that American troops havent captured him yet ?

I should have made that clearer, I meant he wasn't on the planes. How much he was involved is actually hard to know. Is he bragging, whose idea was it, and this was the second attempt which should have kept our national security teams on high alert. What motivates terrorists is a difficult issue, I still remember the day McVeigh blew up the Oklahoma building, do you recall who they first thought did it?

[manu1959]

you could be listening him speak right now.............

[ranger]

Do you mean Clinton? Last I checked bin laden didn't do 911 or he wouldn't be here - you do realize that much I hope. The BS Clinton could have taken out OBL has been gone over enough that most fifth graders know the circumstances better than you.

Carter inherited the incredible mess Nixon/Ford left. Please google stagflation etc. The original post gives an argument against Nixon. Funny, the author of that piece is obviously conservative/libertarian but most of the things he faults Nixon with are Ok with this me.


http://www.studien-von-zeitfragen.de/Weltfinanz/Stagflation/stagflation.html

http://thejunction.net/justfacts/2008/02/29/stagflation-recounting-nixons-price-controls/

Damn, you truly are drinking the koolaid. Carter was a fucking village idiot put in charge of one of two superpowers and by the time he was done we were the worldwide laughing stock. We're still hearing about decisions he made 30 fucking years later. How fucked up is that?

[April15]

Damn, you truly are drinking the koolaid. Carter was a fucking village idiot put in charge of one of two superpowers and by the time he was done we were the worldwide laughing stock. We're still hearing about decisions he made 30 fucking years later. How fucked up is that?And what Bush has done to the integrity and world standing of the USA is not a joke? Not to mention the policies implemented that have harmed nations and people.

[hjmick]

But none of these evils is Nixon’s worst moment. He is responsible for the single most destructive act in the history of the American presidency, an act that has destroyed more wealth and worsened more lives than anything before or since. In 1971, as Wikipedia puts it, he “eradicated the last remnants of the gold standard.” This created the inflation crises of the 1970’s and affects us with “moderate” inflation to this day. The high interest rates that Republicans blame Carter for are actually the result of Nixon’s policies."

He was just finishing what Franklin D. Roosevelt started in 1933.

I'm curious as to how anyone today could think the gold standard would work. The total amount of gold mined is valued at about $4 trillion, using $1,000 an ounce as a base, while the total amount of currency in circulation is estimated to be almost $8 trillion.

[midcan5]

I'm curious as to how anyone today could think the gold standard would work. The total amount of gold mined is valued at about $4 trillion, using $1,000 an ounce as a base, while the total amount of currency in circulation is estimated to be almost $8 trillion.

Psychological question. I am puzzled too but economics makes little sense sometimes, the point is the so called experts floundered for a bit while real life behavior gave them some ideas. FDR was probably our greatest contemporary president, his work keep fascism away, and laid the groundwork for a society where destitution was less a fear. I still view SS as one of the greatest things we have done for each other.

[Hagbard Celine]

Psychological question. I am puzzled too but economics makes little sense sometimes, the point is the so called experts floundered for a bit while real life behavior gave them some ideas. FDR was probably our greatest contemporary president, his work keep fascism away, and laid the groundwork for a society where destitution was less a fear. I still view SS as one of the greatest things we have done for each other.

With the success of SS, it makes you wonder why opposition to universal healthcare is so widespread.

[ranger]

And what Bush has done to the integrity and world standing of the USA is not a joke? Not to mention the policies implemented that have harmed nations and people.

What Bush has done is make the world scared of us. That's not a bad thing. Where is it written that the world has to love us. Because I tell you, the world only loves us when we do good things for them. Usually good things for them is bad things for us.

[April15]

What Bush has done is make the world scared of us. That's not a bad thing. Where is it written that the world has to love us. Because I tell you, the world only loves us when we do good things for them. Usually good things for them is bad things for us.
The nations of the world can see that we are stretched so thin militarily that fear is the last thing they are thinking. They are wondering what happened to the noble nation that was the lighthouse for the oppressed and holder of moral high ground.
Ranger, these are the reasons we are laughed at. We have given over to unethical, power mad leaders. Leaders whose vision of the future ends at their nose.

[Classact]

Often when debates discuss worst presidents Carter is mentioned, since I was of voting age starting with Nixon .... I always found the Reagan Administration to be the worst till now. (Bush Jr hands down is the worst.) The reason I labeled Reagan the worst was he started the decline of the middle class and reinvented the imperial, aka military, presidency. But Reagan didn't seem to grasp his flag waving would lead to the hubris that made war too easy for some. He did realize quickly his tax policies were voodoo economics. It was the background ideology that grew out of the decline of Russia, Granada, and a Gulf War with a foolish dictator that made so many in power so naive. So it is with interest I read other people's take on this same period and who is the worst. Full disclosure: I voted for Nixon.

http://myrhaf.blogspot.com/2007/05/worst-american-president-in-history.html

"At home Nixon imposed wage and price controls, a purely socialistic intervention in the economy that bumbling Jimmy Carter never could have attempted. He created the Environmental Protection Agency and Occupational Health and Safety Administration, two assaults on liberty that to this day create anti-capitalist regulations that violate rights and hamper the economy. He expanded the welfare state, creating Supplemental Security Income and indexing Social Security to inflation. He created the Drug Enforcement Agency, probably the biggest move in America’s idiotic war on drugs.

But none of these evils is Nixon’s worst moment. He is responsible for the single most destructive act in the history of the American presidency, an act that has destroyed more wealth and worsened more lives than anything before or since. In 1971, as Wikipedia puts it, he “eradicated the last remnants of the gold standard.” This created the inflation crises of the 1970’s and affects us with “moderate” inflation to this day. The high interest rates that Republicans blame Carter for are actually the result of Nixon’s policies."While I disagree with your conclusion I agree that the gold standard is a good thing that the founders emphasised http://www.svpvril.com/OACL.html for details go to the sub link here to read details http://www.svpvril.com/OACL.html#StolenGold

I think the worst president was JFK, he started his administration with an invasion of Cuba that he then abandoned leaving the warriors to be killed and captured to spend decades in Castro's dungeons leaving Cuba in the hands of a dictator. Then because he was so liberal like Obama he was seen weak to the USSR and held direct talks that resulted with USSR concluding that JFK was a weak moron so they put nukes on Cuba. Oh, but that wasn't enough... when President Eisenhower left office he told Kennedy not to add one man to the force in Vietnam but dumb ass Kennedy did the opposite and caused the Vietnam War with the millions of casualties. Now that's a fucked up president!

[ranger]

The nations of the world can see that we are stretched so thin militarily that fear is the last thing they are thinking. They are wondering what happened to the noble nation that was the lighthouse for the oppressed and holder of moral high ground.

We have numerous units that have not even seen combat so the stretched thin is an illusion. And they do fear us because even "stretched" like we are, we still have more combat power available then most other countries in the world. Add to that, most of our forces have experienced combat, making them better then those who haven't.



Ranger, these are the reasons we are laughed at. We have given over to unethical, power mad leaders. Leaders whose vision of the future ends at their nose.

Whatever. In case you haven't noticed, the world is full of tinpot dictators who only respect strength. These are the same people that are screaming the loudest (well right behind the democrats) at our supposed occupations of places. Why are they upset? Because we got there before them (how dare we!).

[midcan5]

What Bush has done is make the world scared of us. That's not a bad thing. Where is it written that the world has to love us. Because I tell you, the world only loves us when we do good things for them. Usually good things for them is bad things for us.

LOL - now we are the school yard bullies, very Christian sentiment, in this so called Christian nation.

[Psychoblues]

gwb, no doubt about it. John McCain will be the next worst, don't you know?

[actsnoblemartin]

Im not convinced mccain is as bad as bush, and im not convinced obama is the Saviour either, neither has my vote yet


gwb, no doubt about it. John McCain will be the next worst, don't you know?

[Psychoblues]

You ain't seen flip flopping 'till you've seen McCain. Let the debates commence!!!!!!!!!!

[actsnoblemartin]

i have seen some flip flopping from mccain, take illegal immigration, he thinks he's gonna convince me, he is sheriff arpaio, or he is gonna get tough on illegal immigration

HIS PARTY, and the other party, both benefit from it, and dont give a shit, about the illegals or us.

:laugh2:


You ain't seen flip flopping 'till you've seen McCain. Let the debates commence!!!!!!!!!!

[actsnoblemartin]

dont get me wrong, i may not be an obama enthusiast, but like i said to my liberal best friend in scotland, i am un-decided, and will give obama a fair shake at this point


You ain't seen flip flopping 'till you've seen McCain. Let the debates commence!!!!!!!!!!

[Psychoblues]

Shake it and bake it, martin. I'm glad to know you are paying attention!!!!!!!!

[fj1200]

“It would be difficult to identify a President who, facing major international and domestic crises, has failed in both as clearly as President Bush,” concluded one respondent. “His domestic policies,” another noted, “have had the cumulative effect of shoring up a semi-permanent aristocracy of capital that dwarfs the aristocracy of land against which the founding fathers rebelled; of encouraging a mindless retreat from science and rationalism; and of crippling the nation’s economic base.”

:laugh2: I'm sorry, I just had to laugh at that. :laugh2:

[Dilloduck]

:laugh2: I'm sorry, I just had to laugh at that. :laugh2:


I still view SS as one of the greatest things we have done for each other

I'm still laughing at this one. :laugh2:

[avatar4321]

With the success of SS, it makes you wonder why opposition to universal healthcare is so widespread.

Did SS succeed when I wasnt looking?

[theHawk]

Often when debates discuss worst presidents Carter is mentioned, since I was of voting age starting with Nixon .... I always found the Reagan Administration to be the worst till now. (Bush Jr hands down is the worst.) The reason I labeled Reagan the worst was he started the decline of the middle class and reinvented the imperial, aka military, presidency. But Reagan didn't seem to grasp his flag waving would lead to the hubris that made war too easy for some. He did realize quickly his tax policies were voodoo economics. It was the background ideology that grew out of the decline of Russia, Granada, and a Gulf War with a foolish dictator that made so many in power so naive. So it is with interest I read other people's take on this same period and who is the worst. Full disclosure: I voted for Nixon.

http://myrhaf.blogspot.com/2007/05/worst-american-president-in-history.html

"At home Nixon imposed wage and price controls, a purely socialistic intervention in the economy that bumbling Jimmy Carter never could have attempted. He created the Environmental Protection Agency and Occupational Health and Safety Administration, two assaults on liberty that to this day create anti-capitalist regulations that violate rights and hamper the economy. He expanded the welfare state, creating Supplemental Security Income and indexing Social Security to inflation. He created the Drug Enforcement Agency, probably the biggest move in America’s idiotic war on drugs.

But none of these evils is Nixon’s worst moment. He is responsible for the single most destructive act in the history of the American presidency, an act that has destroyed more wealth and worsened more lives than anything before or since. In 1971, as Wikipedia puts it, he “eradicated the last remnants of the gold standard.” This created the inflation crises of the 1970’s and affects us with “moderate” inflation to this day. The high interest rates that Republicans blame Carter for are actually the result of Nixon’s policies."


You make some good points there. The EPA is an abomination and needs to be scrapped (Rush and other conservatives are calling for that).
And the gold standard is something we should be getting back to.

[Kathianne]

You make some good points there. The EPA is an abomination and needs to be scrapped (Rush and other conservatives are calling for that).
And the gold standard is something we should be getting back to.

The gold standard is way beyond a lost cause. On the other issues, well take each as they come.

[gabosaurus]

How can any president be worse than Warren Harding?

[Silver]

Often when debates discuss worst presidents Carter is mentioned, since I was of voting age starting with Nixon .... I always found the Reagan Administration to be the worst till now. (Bush Jr hands down is the worst.) The reason I labeled Reagan the worst was he started the decline of the middle class and reinvented the imperial, aka military, presidency. But Reagan didn't seem to grasp his flag waving would lead to the hubris that made war too easy for some. He did realize quickly his tax policies were voodoo economics. It was the background ideology that grew out of the decline of Russia, Granada, and a Gulf War with a foolish dictator that made so many in power so naive. So it is with interest I read other people's take on this same period and who is the worst. Full disclosure: I voted for Nixon.

http://myrhaf.blogspot.com/2007/05/worst-american-president-in-history.html

"At home Nixon imposed wage and price controls, a purely socialistic intervention in the economy that bumbling Jimmy Carter never could have attempted. He created the Environmental Protection Agency and Occupational Health and Safety Administration, two assaults on liberty that to this day create anti-capitalist regulations that violate rights and hamper the economy. He expanded the welfare state, creating Supplemental Security Income and indexing Social Security to inflation. He created the Drug Enforcement Agency, probably the biggest move in America’s idiotic war on drugs.

But none of these evils is Nixon’s worst moment. He is responsible for the single most destructive act in the history of the American presidency, an act that has destroyed more wealth and worsened more lives than anything before or since. In 1971, as Wikipedia puts it, he “eradicated the last remnants of the gold standard.” This created the inflation crises of the 1970’s and affects us with “moderate” inflation to this day. The high interest rates that Republicans blame Carter for are actually the result of Nixon’s policies."

I'll leave grading the best and worst Presidents up to the historians...those that will see what policies caused what events and how they resulted in good or bad effects on this country and the world....

but I can grade you as an informed poster, and you, clown, show an ignorance of currents events and recent history that is astounding....to question the EPA, DEA and OSHA as 'assaults on liberty' could be symptoms of serious brain damage....you can't possibly be familiar with the Carter years and how truly alarming they were...

Normally I don't even bother addressing your inane rants and I suppose that was the correct action to take

[Silver]

Often when debates discuss worst presidents Carter is mentioned, since I was of voting age starting with Nixon .... I always found the Reagan Administration to be the worst till now. (Bush Jr hands down is the worst.) The reason I labeled Reagan the worst was he started the decline of the middle class and reinvented the imperial, aka military, presidency. But Reagan didn't seem to grasp his flag waving would lead to the hubris that made war too easy for some. He did realize quickly his tax policies were voodoo economics. It was the background ideology that grew out of the decline of Russia, Granada, and a Gulf War with a foolish dictator that made so many in power so naive. So it is with interest I read other people's take on this same period and who is the worst. Full disclosure: I voted for Nixon.

http://myrhaf.blogspot.com/2007/05/worst-american-president-in-history.html

"At home Nixon imposed wage and price controls, a purely socialistic intervention in the economy that bumbling Jimmy Carter never could have attempted. He created the Environmental Protection Agency and Occupational Health and Safety Administration, two assaults on liberty that to this day create anti-capitalist regulations that violate rights and hamper the economy. He expanded the welfare state, creating Supplemental Security Income and indexing Social Security to inflation. He created the Drug Enforcement Agency, probably the biggest move in America’s idiotic war on drugs.

But none of these evils is Nixon’s worst moment. He is responsible for the single most destructive act in the history of the American presidency, an act that has destroyed more wealth and worsened more lives than anything before or since. In 1971, as Wikipedia puts it, he “eradicated the last remnants of the gold standard.” This created the inflation crises of the 1970’s and affects us with “moderate” inflation to this day. The high interest rates that Republicans blame Carter for are actually the result of Nixon’s policies."

[b]I'll leave grading the best and worst Presidents up to the historians...those that will see what policies caused what events and how they resulted in good or bad effects on this country and the world....

but I can grade you as an informed poster, and you, clown, show an ignorance of currents events and recent history that is astounding....to question the EPA, DEA and OSHA as 'assaults on liberty' could be symptoms of serious brain damage....you can't possibly be familiar with the Carter years and how truly alarming they were...

Normally I don't even bother addressing your inane rants and I suppose that was the correct action to take

[red states rule]

How can any president be worse than Warren Harding?

Peanut Carter. Double digit inflation. Double digit interest rates. Near double digit unemployment

but Obama will take the title away from him should he win in November

[April15]

Peanut Carter. Double digit inflation. Double digit interest rates. Near double digit unemployment

but Obama will take the title away from him should he win in NovemberRichard Nixon was the one who had price caps and WIN buttons. The United States was paying too heavy a price to prop up the Shah of Iran. But we needed the oil and an ethical man was elected and stopped the payoff to prop up the Shah.
Then we got no ethics raygun and it has been down hill ever since!

[red states rule]

Richard Nixon was the one who had price caps and WIN buttons. The United States was paying too heavy a price to prop up the Shah of Iran. But we needed the oil and an ethical man was elected and stopped the payoff to prop up the Shah.
Then we got no ethics raygun and it has been down hill ever since!

Pity a liberal who spens his days trying to rewrite history, and blaming others for his problems

Peanut Carter was fired in a humilating defeat. Pres Reagab was reelected with 49 states

and libs like you have been pissed of about it for 24 years

[April15]

Pity a liberal who spens his days trying to rewrite history, and blaming others for his problems

Peanut Carter was fired in a humilating defeat. Pres Reagab was reelected with 49 states

and libs like you have been pissed of about it for 24 yearsI can understand why raygun was elected. Mob mentality and a guy named Rove. Americans have lost their self reliance and are afraid of anything that goes boo in the night. And as the history goes it supports my words.

[red states rule]

I can understand why raygun was elected. Mob mentality and a guy named Rove. Americans have lost their self reliance and are afraid of anything that goes boo in the night. And as the history goes it supports my words.

Try people rejected liberalism. I know facing facts is something new for you - but try it sometime

http://www.presidentelect.org/images/e1980_ecmap.GIF


http://www.presidentelect.org/images/e1984_ecmap.GIF

[April15]

Thank you for proving my point of mob mentality.

[red states rule]

Thank you for proving my point of mob mentality.

Libs can't admit when the voters reject their liberalism. Your is one of the more lame excuses :laugh2:

[April15]

Libs can't admit when the voters reject their liberalism. Your is one of the more lame excuses :laugh2:Republican talking point # 956401.

[red states rule]

Republican talking point # 956401.

I remember well how Dems cried in 1984. They said the voters did not reject their message, but were taken in by slick marketing and packaging

They lost 49 states but they were not wrong on the issues. A mind is a terrible thing to waste on a liberal :laugh2:

[manu1959]

I remember well how Dems cried in 1984. They said the voters did not reject their message, but were taken in by slick marketing and packaging

They lost 49 states but they were not wrong on the issues. A mind is a terrible thing to waste on a liberal :laugh2:


yep all those libs of superior intelect fell for roves talking point......

[red states rule]

yep all those libs of superior intelect fell for roves talking point......

All Rove did for Pres Reagan was direct mail. I guess that is what turned the 1984 election into a 49 state landslide win for Pres Reagan :laugh2:

[Hobbit]

http://www.mflmarmac.k12.ia.us/School%20Website/high_school/faculty/simonam/jimmy-carter.jpg

Stagflation? Seriously?

http://www.stpetetimes.com/2005/02/01/images/medium/FLO_1_td01comic_206137_0201.jpg

Worst...president...ever.

[red states rule]

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i320/lokithetricksterphotos/photo%20july%20funny/politicians%20drag/jimmycrtr.jpg

Yep, the worst President ever

(Unless Obama wins in Nov)

[Abbey Marie]

Want to hear something scary? Yesterday at lunch I saw a woman who looked exactly like Jimmah. Poor dear.

[red states rule]

Want to hear something scary? Yesterday at lunch I saw a woman who looked exactly like Jimmah. Poor dear.

I would have tossed a stick on the floor to see if she fetches

[April15]

yep all those libs of superior intelect fell for roves talking point......Ronnie promised the moon while sitting on a desk representative of the oval office. The truth was there just no one heard the little voice that spoke. Set this nation on the long downward spiral to oblivion. Lost ethics, lost American principles, lost compassion. Adios MF USA.

[Yurt]

Ronnie promised the moon while sitting on a desk representative of the oval office. The truth was there just no one heard the little voice that spoke. Set this nation on the long downward spiral to oblivion. Lost ethics, lost American principles, lost compassion. Adios MF USA.

i bet you blame Reagan for the runs you had in 83 too

[April15]

i bet you blame Reagan for the runs you had in 83 tooDidn't get the runs. Hard to do when you can't afford food.

[gabosaurus]

Forget the red-vs.-blue histronics and try looking at history. There are American presidents who were far worse than anyone in the last 50 years. Even Nixon.

[fj1200]

Ronnie promised the moon while sitting on a desk representative of the oval office. The truth was there just no one heard the little voice that spoke. Set this nation on the long downward spiral to oblivion. Lost ethics, lost American principles, lost compassion. Adios MF USA.

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

[red states rule]

Forget the red-vs.-blue histronics and try looking at history. There are American presidents who were far worse than anyone in the last 50 years. Even Nixon.

Peanut Carter has that title Gabby. You were not around during his 4 year term, I was

And Obama is trying to give us a second term of the Peanut farmer from GA

[midcan5]

Having lived through those times I marvel at the misinformation the wingnut corporate tools present as history today. Carter inherited a mess, does anyone ask why Ford lost to a farmer from Georgia? That in itself should be telling. But the revisionist history of pointing fingers at the other guy, and not at one's party, is art form today. Read a bit and learn.

http://www.studien-von-zeitfragen.net/Weltfinanz/Stagflation/stagflation.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stagflation

Does this sound familiar or what - we never learn it seems. Carter faced this on a larger scale.

"Factors beyond Nixon's control undermined his economic policies. In 1973 the war between Israel, Egypt and Syria prompted Saudi Arabia to impose an embargo on oil shipped to Israel's ally, the United States. Other member nations of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) quadrupled their prices. Americans faced both shortages and rapidly rising prices. Even when the embargo ended the next year, prices remained high. Higher energy prices affected all areas of American economic life: in 1974 inflation reached 12 percent, causing disruptions that led to even higher unemployment rates. This era of recession and inflation ("stagflation") brought an end to the unprecedented economic boom America had enjoyed since 1948."

http://countrystudies.us/united-states/history-126.htm


I still rate Reagan (in modern times) as the worst president until Bush junior. We started to forget about all the citizens and we became a social/economic darwinist nation. Reagan may have realized his mistakes but what he did by allowing the market rather than the people control has stagnated wages for working people all these years with only a slight increase under Clinton. Think only of minimum wage and you quickly see republicans care not for America but for money.

[red states rule]

Having lived through those times I marvel at the misinformation the wingnut corporate tools present as history today. Carter inherited a mess, does anyone ask why Ford lost to a farmer from Georgia? That in itself should be telling. But the revisionist history of pointing fingers at the other guy, and not at one's party, is art form today. Read a bit and learn.

http://www.studien-von-zeitfragen.net/Weltfinanz/Stagflation/stagflation.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stagflation

Does this sound familiar or what - we never learn it seems. Carter faced this on a larger scale.

"Factors beyond Nixon's control undermined his economic policies. In 1973 the war between Israel, Egypt and Syria prompted Saudi Arabia to impose an embargo on oil shipped to Israel's ally, the United States. Other member nations of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) quadrupled their prices. Americans faced both shortages and rapidly rising prices. Even when the embargo ended the next year, prices remained high. Higher energy prices affected all areas of American economic life: in 1974 inflation reached 12 percent, causing disruptions that led to even higher unemployment rates. This era of recession and inflation ("stagflation") brought an end to the unprecedented economic boom America had enjoyed since 1948."

http://countrystudies.us/united-states/history-126.htm


I still rate Reagan (in modern times) as the worst president until Bush junior. We started to forget about all the citizens and we became a social/economic darwinist nation. Reagan may have realized his mistakes but what he did by allowing the market rather than the people control has stagnated wages for working people all these years with only a slight increase under Clinton. Think only of minimum wage and you quickly see republicans care not for America but for money.

I lived throught the Peanut yeares - and he did the same things Obama wants to do

Rqaise taxes on the workers and companies. Increase government spending. As gas lines went around the block, this idiot raised taxes on oil companies and told us to conserve

As interest rates and inflation went up into double digits, Peanut Carter told us to lower our standrard of living and pay more in taxes

Now onder the voters soundly fired his ass in a Reagan landslide

[April15]

Having lived through those times I marvel at the misinformation the wingnut corporate tools present as history today. Carter inherited a mess, does anyone ask why Ford lost to a farmer from Georgia? That in itself should be telling. But the revisionist history of pointing fingers at the other guy, and not at one's party, is art form today. Read a bit and learn.

http://www.studien-von-zeitfragen.net/Weltfinanz/Stagflation/stagflation.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stagflation

Does this sound familiar or what - we never learn it seems. Carter faced this on a larger scale.

"Factors beyond Nixon's control undermined his economic policies. In 1973 the war between Israel, Egypt and Syria prompted Saudi Arabia to impose an embargo on oil shipped to Israel's ally, the United States. Other member nations of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) quadrupled their prices. Americans faced both shortages and rapidly rising prices. Even when the embargo ended the next year, prices remained high. Higher energy prices affected all areas of American economic life: in 1974 inflation reached 12 percent, causing disruptions that led to even higher unemployment rates. This era of recession and inflation ("stagflation") brought an end to the unprecedented economic boom America had enjoyed since 1948."

http://countrystudies.us/united-states/history-126.htm


I still rate Reagan (in modern times) as the worst president until Bush junior. We started to forget about all the citizens and we became a social/economic darwinist nation. Reagan may have realized his mistakes but what he did by allowing the market rather than the people control has stagnated wages for working people all these years with only a slight increase under Clinton. Think only of minimum wage and you quickly see republicans care not for America but for money.I still have my WIN button from Nixon's era. I remember price caps to control inflation. What you describe is accurate history.

[red states rule]

I still have my WIN button from Nixon's era. I remember price caps to control inflation. What you describe is accurate history.

How about a Gritz and Fritz button? That about all the Peanut administartion had to offer the voters

BTW inflation soared under Pres Peanut - but to you, it was not Peanut's fault

You blame Republicans who were not in power for the long 4 years of Peanut power

[fj1200]

Having lived through those times I marvel at the misinformation the wingnut corporate tools present as history today. Carter inherited a mess, does anyone ask why Ford lost to a farmer from Georgia? That in itself should be telling. But the revisionist history of pointing fingers at the other guy, and not at one's party, is art form today. Read a bit and learn.

http://www.studien-von-zeitfragen.net/Weltfinanz/Stagflation/stagflation.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stagflation

Does this sound familiar or what - we never learn it seems. Carter faced this on a larger scale.

"Factors beyond Nixon's control undermined his economic policies..."

http://countrystudies.us/united-states/history-126.htm


I still rate Reagan (in modern times) as the worst president until Bush junior. We started to forget about all the citizens and we became a social/economic darwinist nation. Reagan may have realized his mistakes but what he did by allowing the market rather than the people control has stagnated wages for working people all these years with only a slight increase under Clinton. Think only of minimum wage and you quickly see republicans care not for America but for money.

Carter was a failure because he had absolutely no clue how to deal with the situation. His only saving grace was appointing Volcker, after his first pick of Miller was run out, who would finally put the clamps on inflation. Even Volckers actions had little effect until the stimulative tax cuts pulled the string.

Reagan inherited in essence the same situation as Carter although he knew it was government action that kept the lid on economic activity, he proposed a radical, at the time, solution of tax cuts to stimulate the economy. Once the full implementation of the tax cuts in '83 were put in place the economy took off.

[red states rule]

Carter was a failure because he had absolutely no clue how to deal with the situation. His only saving grace was appointing Volcker, after his first pick of Miller was run out, who would finally put the clamps on inflation. Even Volckers actions had little effect until the stimulative tax cuts pulled the string.

Reagan inherited in essence the same situation as Carter although he knew it was government action that kept the lid on economic activity, he proposed a radical, at the time, solution of tax cuts to stimulate the economy. Once the full implementation of the tax cuts in '83 were put in place the economy took off.

The lasting legacy of the Peanut adminiatration will be the creation of the Misery Index. Things were so bad under his failed liberal policies the Misery Index was created to track how awful things were for the America people

[Abbey Marie]

The lasting legacy of the Peanut adminiatration will be the creation of the Misery Index. Things were so bad under his failed liberal policies the Misery Index was created to track how awful things were for the America people

That, and his cowardice and ineptitude in dealing with the hostage situation.

[April15]

That, and his cowardice and ineptitude in dealing with the hostage situation.Do you even know what the Iranians were asking for? Did you know that the profit from oil exported from their country was the issue? Carter asked the oil cos to pay the ransom. Why? Because the ransom was the profitfrom the oil TAKEN from Iran by the US oil cos under the US supported Shah.

[manu1959]

Do you even know what the Iranians were asking for? Did you know that the profit from oil exported from their country was the issue? Carter asked the oil cos to pay the ransom. Why? Because the ransom was the profitfrom the oil TAKEN from Iran by the US oil cos under the US supported Shah.

now explain carter's proxy war in afganistan against the soviets....

[April15]

now explain carter's proxy war in afganistan against the soviets....Why don't you?!

[Abbey Marie]

Do you even know what the Iranians were asking for? Did you know that the profit from oil exported from their country was the issue? Carter asked the oil cos to pay the ransom. Why? Because the ransom was the profitfrom the oil TAKEN from Iran by the US oil cos under the US supported Shah.

Why am I not surprised that you would feel for the hostage takers, and be supportive of Jimmuh's cowardice in dealing with them?
Paying ransom? Good lord, what capitulators you folks are.

[manu1959]

Why don't you?!

come on....carter is your hero.....tell me about his proxy war with the soviets....

[April15]

come on....carter is your hero.....tell me about his proxy war with the soviets....Carter is not my hero but I do know why he did things. I also know why others made diplomatic treaties in violation of the constitution.

[April15]

Why am I not surprised that you would feel for the hostage takers, and be supportive of Jimmuh's cowardice in dealing with them?
Paying ransom? Good lord, what capitulators you folks are.Abby,
You are aware that for 20 or so years the US supported the Shah of Iran and were paid with oil. I don't know about you but in my thinking that is theft.

[Abbey Marie]

Abby,
You are aware that for 20 or so years the US supported the Shah of Iran and were paid with oil. I don't know about you but in my thinking that is theft.

So, in your thinking, the hostage-taking was acceptable?

And regardless of your answer to that question, Carter handled it like the spineless bumbler that he was.

[April15]

So, in your thinking, the hostage-taking was acceptable?

And regardless of your answer to that question, Carter handled it like the spineless bumbler that he was.Taking hostages is never acceptable. You may believe of Carter what you want. The facts will be available in 2020 and then he will be exonerated for his supposed lack of action.

[Abbey Marie]

Taking hostages is never acceptable. You may believe of Carter what you want. The facts will be available in 2020 and then he will be exonerated for his supposed lack of action.

I wasn't aware of that. Okey doke, we'll post about it then, God willing. :salute:

[avatar4321]

With the success of SS, it makes you wonder why opposition to universal healthcare is so widespread.

Yeah. What a shock there!

(Yes i know its old but i dont think I read through this before).

PS (Okay so it looks like I did. but that statement just had to be addressed again)

[avatar4321]

Ronnie promised the moon while sitting on a desk representative of the oval office. The truth was there just no one heard the little voice that spoke. Set this nation on the long downward spiral to oblivion. Lost ethics, lost American principles, lost compassion. Adios MF USA.

What ethics have been lost?

What princples have been lost?

What compassion has been lost?

I know you arent used to substance, but id like to see some here.

[avatar4321]

Taking hostages is never acceptable. You may believe of Carter what you want. The facts will be available in 2020 and then he will be exonerated for his supposed lack of action.

Carter wasnt just blamed for not acting, he was blamed for his poor choices in office. And they were indeed poor choices.

[April15]

What ethics have been lost?

What princples have been lost?

What compassion has been lost?

I know you arent used to substance, but id like to see some here.Deceitful is what raygun showed Americans with Iran Contra. That is the begining of the ethics going out the window.
The principle of fair and equitable laws have been lost with money showing who is punished and who isn't.
I am surprised you know the word, compassion. From my vantage point in society I can't say as any republican has that quality arising from the heart. For gain or notoriety, yes.

[red states rule]

Deceitful is what raygun showed Americans with Iran Contra. That is the begining of the ethics going out the window.
The principle of fair and equitable laws have been lost with money showing who is punished and who isn't.
I am surprised you know the word, compassion. From my vantage point in society I can't say as any republican has that quality arising from the heart. For gain or notoriety, yes.

Libs like you hate Pres Reagan because he ran rings around the Dems and beat them on so many issues

He also proved how wrong they were on the main issues of the day

Pres Regan showed what a total failure liberalism is - and Obama and the Dems are out to prove how wrong they still are on the issues

[April15]

Libs like you hate Pres Reagan because he ran rings around the Dems and beat them on so many issues

He also proved how wrong they were on the main issues of the day

Pres Regan showed what a total failure liberalism is - and Obama and the Dems are out to prove how wrong they still are on the issuesI started to dislike raygun when he was Governor of California. That is when I first realized conservatism is a failure waiting to happen.

"The Democrats are the party of government activism, the party that says government can make you richer, smarter, taller, and get the chickweed out of your lawn. Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work, and then get elected and prove it."

P. J. O'Rourke

[red states rule]

I started to dislike raygun when he was Governor of California. That is when I first realized conservatism is a failure waiting to happen.

"The Democrats are the party of government activism, the party that says government can make you richer, smarter, taller, and get the chickweed out of your lawn. Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work, and then get elected and prove it."

P. J. O'Rourke

You are like Gabby and MFM - you simply hate conservatives

[April15]

You are like Gabby and MFM - you simply hate conservativesI don't hate them I just can't figure out why they are so stupid!

[red states rule]

I don't hate them I just can't figure out why they are so stupid!

To libs people are stupid to want to keep more of the money they earn, not to slaughter thier unborn children, to stand up to evil and defeat them, to enpower people and not the government, to own guns to protect their families and property, not to burn the US flag, and not to have the government decide how they should live their lives

[April15]

To libs people are stupid to want to keep more of the money they earn, not to slaughter thier unborn children, to stand up to evil and defeat them, to enpower people and not the government, to own guns to protect their families and property, not to burn the US flag, and not to have the government decide how they should live their livesYour post is a tad incorrect. Conservatives are EVIL personified. I do want to defeat them. With all the tax preparers out there you should be able to just about nullify any liability. Burning the flag of the United States is the only allowed way to retire a flag. The patriot act has made me change the way I live my life, but I'm sure you just love it.

[red states rule]

Your post is a tad incorrect. Conservatives are EVIL personified. I do want to defeat them. With all the tax preparers out there you should be able to just about nullify any liability. Burning the flag of the United States is the only allowed way to retire a flag. The patriot act has made me change the way I live my life, but I'm sure you just love it.


Libs consider conservatives evil because we dare to tell the truth about them, and counter their rants with facts that piss them off. Since libs can't compete in the arena of ideas, they have to try and smear and attacks their political opponents

I remember an article which stated Americans spend hundreds of billions of dollars doing their tax returns - with a simple flat tax people and companies could spend that money on other things

The tax code keeps growing while our taxes keep rising

Libs do not burn the flag to retire it -they burn it to show how much they hate this country

How did the Patriot Act change your life. Planning a terrorist attack?

[April15]

Libs consider conservatives evil because we dare to tell the truth about them, and counter their rants with facts that piss them off. Since libs can't compete in the arena of ideas, they have to try and smear and attacks their political opponents

I remember an article which stated Americans spend hundreds of billions of dollars doing their tax returns - with a simple flat tax people and companies could spend that money on other things

The tax code keeps growing while our taxes keep rising

Libs do not burn the flag to retire it -they burn it to show how much they hate this country

How did the Patriot Act change your life. Planning a terrorist attack?

First of all republicans couldn't tell a fact from a man hole. Liberals are the ones who keep getting patents for new and innovative ideas.

A flat tax would cause people to become poor faster than they do now just for a different reason. And the biggest tax increase was under the reign of RR.

Fanatics burn things to show displeasure, the flag being one of them.

I suggested Bush be assassinated back before it was the rage. Homeland Security didn't think it was funny. No passport and no fly list. Seems draconian to me.

[red states rule]

First of all republicans couldn't tell a fact from a man hole. Liberals are the ones who keep getting patents for new and innovative ideas.

A flat tax would cause people to become poor faster than they do now just for a different reason. And the biggest tax increase was under the reign of RR.

Fanatics burn things to show displeasure, the flag being one of them.

I suggested Bush be assassinated back before it was the rage. Homeland Security didn't think it was funny. No passport and no fly list. Seems draconian to me.

I have blown your liberal ass out of the water many times with facts. A flat tax would make things easier, and would increase revenues with massive economic growth (like what happened under JFK, Reagan, and Pres Bush)

Fanatics burn the US flag because they are assholes

After saying how the US President should be murdered you are damn lucky not to be seting in a prison cell. Of course that is a typical example of liberal tolerance that I have come to expect from the likes of you

[April15]

I have blown your liberal ass out of the water many times with facts. A flat tax would make things easier, and would increase revenues with massive economic growth (like what happened under JFK, Reagan, and Pres Bush)

Fanatics burn the US flag because they are assholes

After saying how the US President should be murdered you are damn lucky not to be seting in a prison cell. Of course that is a typical example of liberal tolerance that I have come to expect from the likes of youYou have not blown anything up with facts. RR was a miserable time in this nation and same with Bush. The wealthy are the only ones who make that claim.

[red states rule]

You have not blown anything up with facts. RR was a miserable time in this nation and same with Bush. The wealthy are the only ones who make that claim.

Under Pres Reagan we enjoyed the biggest peace time economic growth in the nations history

He did something I do not see any Presidental candidate doing again - winning 49 states

BTW, the average unemployment rate under Pres Bush is LOWER then it was under Pres Clinton

A US Treasury study showed all incomes (except the top 1%) have increased undr pres Bush

[avatar4321]

Deceitful is what raygun showed Americans with Iran Contra. That is the begining of the ethics going out the window.
The principle of fair and equitable laws have been lost with money showing who is punished and who isn't.
I am surprised you know the word, compassion. From my vantage point in society I can't say as any republican has that quality arising from the heart. For gain or notoriety, yes.

So Ethics was never a problem before Reagan?
Who do you think should be punished that isnt?

As for your compassionate personal attacks, I have to ask, how much have given this year? I've likely done more for people in need today than you've done in a month. And I am not saying that to brag. I am saying it because it's probably true.

Giving away other peoples money isnt compassionate.

[April15]

Under Pres Reagan we enjoyed the biggest peace time economic growth in the nations history

And at what cost to the American taxpayer?

He did something I do not see any Presidental candidate doing again - winning 49 states

At least he did it honestly, I hope.

BTW, the average unemployment rate under Pres Bush is LOWER then it was under Pres Clinton

Clinton did not have a war to suck up the unemployable.

A US Treasury study showed all incomes (except the top 1%) have increased undr pres BushFrom what year?

[manu1959]

From what year?

clinton waged three wars......

[red states rule]

From what year?

Movin' On Up
November 13, 2007
If you've been listening to Mike Huckabee or John Edwards on the Presidential trail, you may have heard that the U.S. is becoming a nation of rising inequality and shrinking opportunity. We'd refer those campaigns to a new study of income mobility by the Treasury Department that exposes those claims as so much populist hokum.

OK, "hokum" is our word. The study, to be released today, is a careful, detailed piece of research by professional economists that avoids political judgments. But what it does do is show beyond doubt that the U.S. remains a dynamic society marked by rapid and mostly upward income mobility. Much as they always have, Americans on the bottom rungs of the economic ladder continue to climb into the middle and sometimes upper classes in remarkably short periods of time.

http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/ED-AG672_1incom_20071112184844.gif

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119492157951090886.html?mod=djemITP

[April15]

Treasury is good source.

[red states rule]

Treasury is good source.

and it blows your doom and gloom talking points about declining wages out of the water