Florida Democrats file suit against Dean

[red states rule]

The Dems are imploding, and now this screwed up primary goes to court




Florida Democrats file suit against Dean, DNC for cutting delegates
By Sam Youngman
Posted: 10/05/07 06:52 PM [ET]
Sen. Bill Nelson (D-Fla.) rarely put down his pocket copy of the U.S. Constitution Thursday morning as he lambasted the Democratic National Committee (DNC) and its chairman, Howard Dean, for stripping Florida of its delegates in next year’s presidential election.

We believe the right to vote, and to have that vote count, is — in fact — the cornerstone of our democracy,” Nelson told reporters. “Without it, nothing else will work.”

Nelson, with Rep. Alcee Hastings (D-Fla.), made it official Thursday they are suing Dean and the DNC for a declaratory relief injunction to prevent the party from going through with harsh penalties against the state that went into effect automatically Sept. 29. The lawmakers said those penalties effectively will negate the votes of almost 4.5 million voters.

http://thehill.com/campaign-2008/florida-democrats-file-suit-against-dean-dnc-for-cutting-delegates-2007-10-05.html

[avatar4321]

problem is Republicans are just as much in the toilet as the Dems. Im not sure they can effectively check the Dems.

[red states rule]

problem is Republicans are just as much in the toilet as the Dems. Im not sure they can effectively check the Dems.

If Hillary somehow pulls it off and gets the nomination - I would be concerned

With Barry as the Dems choice - McCain will win in November. Barry is damaged goods and it will get worse as time passes

[retiredman]

Barry is damaged goods and it will get worse as time passes

odd.... your favorite polling site, RCP, the one you used to SWEAR by, continues to show that Obama's numbers against McSame continue to go UP.

What about that?:laugh2:

[red states rule]

odd.... your favorite polling site, RCP, the one you used to SWEAR by, continues to show that Obama's numbers against McSame continue to go UP.

What about that?:laugh2:

He is damaged goods. He has LOST 5 of the last 7 primaries - and with FL and MI he is losing the popular vote

Care to comment about your fellow Dems taking the party and Dean to court?

[Kathianne]

odd.... your favorite polling site, RCP, the one you used to SWEAR by, continues to show that Obama's numbers against McSame continue to go UP.

What about that?:laugh2:

It's an aggregate poll, those numbers are all over the place. Quinnipac has Obama ahead, though of the big 3 'must wins', Barack only gets Pennsylvania.

[semi liberal girl]

It's an aggregate poll, those numbers are all over the place. Quinnipac has Obama ahead, though of the big 3 'must wins', Barack only gets Pennsylvania.

Obama has already lost me. I know many friends who will not vote for him, but will vote for McCain as I will

[theHawk]

odd.... your favorite polling site, RCP, the one you used to SWEAR by, continues to show that Obama's numbers against McSame continue to go UP.

What about that?:laugh2:

You're golden boy is nothing but the same old same old....his numbers are nearly identical to Kerry's.


But it appears that the way Obama stacks up against McCain at this point is similar to the way in which Kerry performed against Bush in 2004 within several key racial, educational, religious, and gender subgroups. That is, the basic underlying structure of the general-election campaign this year does not appear to be markedly different from that of the 2004 election. This conclusion is based on an analysis of exit-poll data from 2004 compared to the Obama-McCain matchup in 4,000 Gallup Poll Daily tracking interviews conducted during the first five days of May.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/107110/Obamas-Support-Similar-Kerrys-2004.aspx


The media has been and will continue to hype Obama up as drawing in all these numbers never before seen, like the percentage of college graduates that go for him. The problem is this was the case for Kerry too. History is going to repeat itself.

[semi liberal girl]

You're golden boy is nothing but the same old same old....his numbers are nearly identical to Kerry's.



http://www.gallup.com/poll/107110/Obamas-Support-Similar-Kerrys-2004.aspx


The media has been and will continue to hype Obama up as drawing in all these numbers never before seen, like the percentage of college graduates that go for him. The problem is this was the case for Kerry too. History is going to repeat itself.

Before coming here, I read the posts of MFM. He does not use facts or the truth in his posts, so he is not interested in how Obama is really doing.

No matter what what the numbers say, no matter how badly things are going for the Democrat party, and no matter how many stupid blunders Obama makes - MFM will march in lockstep with Sen Obama and attack anyone who dares to offer up facts that prove him wrong

Right now Obama is loing the key states of FL and Ohio to McCain

[retiredman]

You're golden boy is nothing but the same old same old....his numbers are nearly identical to Kerry's.



http://www.gallup.com/poll/107110/Obamas-Support-Similar-Kerrys-2004.aspx


The media has been and will continue to hype Obama up as drawing in all these numbers never before seen, like the percentage of college graduates that go for him. The problem is this was the case for Kerry too. History is going to repeat itself.


that is certainly your opinion. Kerry was running against an incumbent who had yet to fall of the edge of the public approval cliff. Obama is running against a man who fully supported that incumbent in the major issues facing this country. Obama can run against a defacto Bush third term. In my opinion, he will be successful.

[retiredman]

Before coming here, I read the posts of MFM. He does not use facts or the truth in his posts, so he is not interested in how Obama is really doing.

No matter what what the numbers say, no matter how badly things are going for the Democrat party, and no matter how many stupid blunders Obama makes - MFM will march in lockstep with Sen Obama and attack anyone who dares to offer up facts that prove him wrong

Right now Obama is loing the key states of FL and Ohio to McCain

oh really? Here is a fact for ya:

Ohio: McCain vs. Obama
Poll Date 05/13 - 05/20
McCain (R) 42.7
Obama (D) 44.0
RCP Spread Obama +1.3

[semi liberal girl]

oh really? Here is a fact for ya:

Ohio: McCain vs. Obama
Poll Date 05/13 - 05/20
McCain (R) 42.7
Obama (D) 44.0
RCP Spread Obama +1.3

Which is within the margin of error

Obama was losing 2 other polls by as much as 4 points in Ohio

Obama is going to be another Gore, Kerry, and Mondale all rolled into one

[retiredman]

Which is within the margin of error

Obama was losing 2 other polls by as much as 4 points in Ohio

Obama is going to be another Gore, Kerry, and Mondale all rolled into one

actually, there is no MOE in an average of several other polls. RCP averages... I thought you knew that.

And I understand your predictions about Obama. As a self declared democrat, can you tell me what democrats you have ever voted FOR? Did you approve of Clinton's DLC based moderation and triangulation? If you really are a democrat, you should have a history that shows support for SOMEONE in the democratic party.

And please realize that your predictions are just that...

I have not read enough of your prognosticating yet to get a handle on your skill in that endeavor, but if it is anything like your friend RSR, you'll need to work on it.

[semi liberal girl]

actually, there is no MOE in an average of several other polls. RCP averages... I thought you knew that.

And I understand your predictions about Obama. As a self declared democrat, can you tell me what democrats you have ever voted FOR? Did you approve of Clinton's DLC based moderation and triangulation? If you really are a democrat, you should have a history that shows support for SOMEONE in the democratic party.

And please realize that your predictions are just that...

I have not read enough of your prognosticating yet to get a handle on your skill in that endeavor, but if it is anything like your friend RSR, you'll need to work on it.

So you ignore the poll that was conducted over the same days as your because it shows Obama losing to McCain? Or do you just ramble on like a typical Obam supporter?

It is a fact Hillary is doing much better then Obama - but you have shown the ability to chuck aside facts, reason, logic, and the truth

[retiredman]

So you ignore the poll that was conducted over the same days as your because it shows Obama losing to McCain? Or do you just ramble on like a typical Obam supporter?

It is a fact Hillary is doing much better then Obama - but you have shown the ability to chuck aside facts, reason, logic, and the truth


the RCP is an average of many polls. It is a fact that nationally, Obama is doing better against McCain than Hillary is. There are states where Hillary is running better against McCain that Obama is...there are states where Obama is running better against McCain than Hillary is. Those are the facts. Do you intend to discuss them, or chuck them aside?

http://www.pollingreport.com/wh08gen.htm

as of today, there is some degree of disparity among polls, however, a few common themes are shown: McCain leads Obama in NO polls. Both Obama and Clinton are tied or lead McCain is ALL polls. Obama does better against McCain in MORE polls than Clinton does. Obama's lead over McCain in nearly every poll has increased since the previous data point.

Those are the facts. Do you intend to discuss them or chuck them aside as well?

[semi liberal girl]

I have seen youi either going with the average, or you cherypick a poll that you like

Bottom line is, Democrats are going to go with the weaker candidate, only as not o piss off their black voting block. Meanwhile they tell FL and MI to shut up and piss off

[retiredman]

I have seen youi either going with the average, or you cherypick a poll that you like

Bottom line is, Democrats are going to go with the weaker candidate, only as not o piss off their black voting block. Meanwhile they tell FL and MI to shut up and piss off

I linked to pollingreport.com which shows the results of multiple polls.


As I said:

"the RCP is an average of many polls. It is a fact that nationally, Obama is doing better against McCain than Hillary is. There are states where Hillary is running better against McCain that Obama is...there are states where Obama is running better against McCain than Hillary is. Those are the facts. Do you intend to discuss them, or chuck them aside?

http://www.pollingreport.com/wh08gen.htm

as of today, there is some degree of disparity among polls, however, a few common themes are shown: McCain leads Obama in NO polls. Both Obama and Clinton are tied or lead McCain is ALL polls. Obama does better against McCain in MORE polls than Clinton does. Obama's lead over McCain in nearly every poll has increased since the previous data point.

Those are the facts. Do you intend to discuss them or chuck them aside as well?"


I guess it is clear that you have no intention of discussing those points whatsoever.

[semi liberal girl]

I linked to pollingreport.com which shows the results of multiple polls.


As I said:

"the RCP is an average of many polls. It is a fact that nationally, Obama is doing better against McCain than Hillary is. There are states where Hillary is running better against McCain that Obama is...there are states where Obama is running better against McCain than Hillary is. Those are the facts. Do you intend to discuss them, or chuck them aside?

http://www.pollingreport.com/wh08gen.htm

as of today, there is some degree of disparity among polls, however, a few common themes are shown: McCain leads Obama in NO polls. Both Obama and Clinton are tied or lead McCain is ALL polls. Obama does better against McCain in MORE polls than Clinton does. Obama's lead over McCain in nearly every poll has increased since the previous data point.

Those are the facts. Do you intend to discuss them or chuck them aside as well?"


I guess it is clear that you have no intention of discussing those points whatsoever.


Keep telling yourslf that MFM. Meanwhile McCain is doing bteter in the Electoral College - which is what elects the President

You and your ilk will be crying and screaming once again how another election was stolen

[retiredman]

Keep telling yourslf that MFM. Meanwhile McCain is doing bteter in the Electoral College - which is what elects the President

You and your ilk will be crying and screaming once again how another election was stolen

keep telling myself that the facts that I derived from reading every available poll are facts?

Why can't you take the points that I made and try to address each one.

Why can't you try to debate me on anything?

[semi liberal girl]

keep telling myself that the facts that I derived from reading every available poll are facts?

Why can't you take the points that I made and try to address each one.

Why can't you try to debate me on anything?

You can't admit Obama is doing worse in the Electoral College the Hillary. She is the stronger candidate but you are hooked on Obama

[retiredman]

"Meanwhile McCain is doing bteter in the Electoral College - which is what elects the President"


http://www.270towin.com/2008_polls/mccain_obama/

Obama leads in that one.

http://www.trendlines.ca/electusa.htm

Obama leads in that one

http://www.electionprojection.com/elections2008.html#president

Obama leads in that one

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/02/2008_electoral_college_maps/

that one gives the edge to Obama

care to discuss those?

[semi liberal girl]

"Meanwhile McCain is doing bteter in the Electoral College - which is what elects the President"


http://www.270towin.com/2008_polls/mccain_obama/

Obama leads in that one.

http://www.trendlines.ca/electusa.htm

Obama leads in that one

http://www.electionprojection.com/elections2008.html#president

Obama leads in that one

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/02/2008_electoral_college_maps/

that one gives the edge to Obama

care to discuss those?


Going back to Feb?

Oh well, old wornout 60"s peace niks like youi live in the past - you might as well go by old and expired polls to try and make your lame case

No wonder you are not aken seriously here

[retiredman]

Going back to Feb?

Oh well, old wornout 60"s peace niks like youi live in the past - you might as well go by old and expired polls to try and make your lame case

No wonder you are not aken seriously here

toss out the last one if you like. the first three are all from this month. care to discuss them or run away from them?

[semi liberal girl]

toss out the last one if you like. the first three are all from this month. care to discuss them or run away from them?

I have seen polls on TV that shows Obama losing the Electoral College. Maybe you are so conditioned to follw the party you will support a racist, hate filled, terrorist codling, tax and spend liberal - the majority will not

For the sake of keeping blacks happy my party is todding out the votes from 2 states, ignoring the popular vote, and SD's are ignoring the will of their on states voters

You do not have a problem with this - but alot of us Democrats do

[retiredman]

I have seen polls on TV that shows Obama losing the Electoral College. Maybe you are so conditioned to follw the party you will support a racist, hate filled, terrorist codling, tax and spend liberal - the majority will not

For the sake of keeping blacks happy my party is todding out the votes from 2 states, ignoring the popular vote, and SD's are ignoring the will of their on states voters

You do not have a problem with this - but alot of us Democrats do

you have seen polls on television. good for you. I showed you links to a bunch of polls that go the other way. Do you have any links to the polls you saw on television or is that really all you have - an assertion that you saw something and that is supposed to "proove" something.

If you had a problem with the superdelegate format for national conventions, have you ever voiced your concerns at your local, county, or state democratic committee meetings?

[semi liberal girl]

you have seen polls on television. good for you. I showed you links to a bunch of polls that go the other way. Do you have any links to the polls you saw on television or is that really all you have - an assertion that you saw something and that is supposed to "proove" something.

If you had a problem with the superdelegate format for national conventions, have you ever voiced your concerns at your local, county, or state democratic committee meetings?

Thank you for proving my point

You are such a hack - the party can do no wrong

[retiredman]

Thank you for proving my point

You are such a hack - the party can do no wrong


some people don't like things, and all they can do is bitch about it.

others actually try to do something to create change.

If you didn't like the superdelegate format, why didn't you complain about it back when you were a democrat?

oh...and any links to those polls you "saw" on television?

[semi liberal girl]

and now HBO is doing a hit piece on Fl 2000 (from a Democrat POV) and the liberal media is still whining about it

Yet, they are not saying a word about FL and MI being screwed over

'Recount': Still Too Close for Comfort
But 8 Years Later, There's A Clear Winner: Viewers

By Tom Shales
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, May 25, 2008; Page M01

There's something especially satisfying about a can't-miss proposition that doesn't -- partly because so many hugely ballyhooed "sure things" instead land with ignominious splats. A splat is precisely what does not happen with HBO's "Recount," an electrifying slapstick tragedy about a mad moment in American politics, a moment that must never happen again but easily could.

An estimable assemblage of talents come together to revisit the bangs and whimpers that brought the 2000 presidential election to a herky-jerky, ludicrous close and installed George W. Bush rather than Al Gore in the White House. It was a flash that went by in a blur, so stupefyingly surrealistic that it seemed it couldn't really be happening. But it was, it really was, and the results still reverberate.

Placed under a figurative high-def microscope and examined studiously but at a riveting pace, "Recount" recounts in brisk and crisp docudrama style how Gore was pushed aside even after winning the national popular vote -- a defeat marked by bungling, bumbling and seemingly malicious mischief in the state of Florida. The film is a clarifying cautionary tale that concedes both that full clarification is probably impossible and that cautionary warnings could well go unheeded as early as November.

There are so many lessons to be learned, but there is so little precedent for the proverbial powers that be actually learning them.

Here was a pivotal, crucial event in the life of the country and yet, the film ruefully relates, it was handled with all the finesse and expertise of the Keystone Kops working for Barnum & Bailey. At the end, Bush honcho James Baker declares that all's well and that "the system works," and what's obviously lacking is a voice from the throng shouting out a rhetorical, "You call that working ?!"

If the mess in Florida had been resolved with as much skill and savvy as went into the making of the movie, the world might be a different place today -- presumably a better one, although no one can say for sure.

Little or nothing is ever accomplished by games of what-if, but it's hard to resist speculating how history, and not just political history, might have been different since the year 2000 with regard to such monumental events as the reaction to the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11; response to the devastation of Hurricane Katrina; and the war in Iraq, including whether there would have been one and whether a single American life would have been lost.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/23/AR2008052300652.html

[semi liberal girl]

some people don't like things, and all they can do is bitch about it.

others actually try to do something to create change.

If you didn't like the superdelegate format, why didn't you complain about it back when you were a democrat?

oh...and any links to those polls you "saw" on television?

You are showing what a total ass you are. You never say anything bad about the party, you go along with the party screwing over 2 states, you have no problem with the candidate who is losing the popular vote geting the nomination - and if you speak out you atack (not the party - the one speaking out against the party)

[retiredman]

You are showing what a total ass you are. You never say anything bad about the party, you go along with the party screwing over 2 states, you have no problem with the candidate who is losing the popular vote geting the nomination - and if you speak out you atack (not the party - the one speaking out against the party)

Like I said, if you really are a democrat, why didn't you speak up abnout the superdelegate process before?

FL and MI knew the rules and they chose to break them. If Iwere a democrat in those states, I would be pissed at my state committee members who screwed me over. It is not Howard Dean's fault that those state committees were so stupid.

[semi liberal girl]

Like I said, if you really are a democrat, why didn't you speak up abnout the superdelegate process before?

FL and MI knew the rules and they chose to break them. If Iwere a democrat in those states, I would be pissed at my state committee members who screwed me over. It is not Howard Dean's fault that those state committees were so stupid.

Again, to you the party comes before all else. Truth, reason, logic, comon sense

As long as you boy Obama wins - you do give a damn how he does it, or how many votes are not counted

So what if the popular vote getter is not the choice to run against McCain - hell all that matters is keeping the blacks happy and in line

Yet, liberals are STILL WHINING about FL 2000 8 years later

[retiredman]

Again, to you the party comes before all else. Truth, reason, logic, comon sense

As long as you boy Obama wins - you do give a damn how he does it, or how many votes are not counted

So what if the popular vote getter is not the choice to run against McCain - hell all that matters is keeping the blacks happy and in line

Yet, liberals are STILL WHINING about FL 2000 8 years later

no it doesn't. I believe in truth, reason, logic and common sense much more than I do my p arty. I happen to be fairly ambivalent about the superdelegate process...which is why I did not speak up at any committee meetings on the subject.

And I think that the only way that Hillary is the popular vote leader is if you count MI and FL, and their stte committees screwed up.

[semi liberal girl]

no it doesn't. I believe in truth, reason, logic and common sense much more than I do my p arty. I happen to be fairly ambivalent about the superdelegate process...which is why I did not speak up at any committee meetings on the subject.

And I think that the only way that Hillary is the popular vote leader is if you count MI and FL, and their stte committees screwed up.

So you continue with your lies to justify the party. You have shown a blind following to the will of the party. Seting aside hate, racism, anti America rants, and out and out lies to defend the party and Obama

You are no longer atken seriously here, and with good reason. Nothing maters to but the party and power

You are a sad, pathitic, and pitiful case

[semi liberal girl]

As I have said, the same liberals who are STILL pissed over FL 2000 are not saying a word about FL 2008

This hit piece HBO is putting out is slanted and bias toward the Democrates - yet I wonder if HBO is gioing to do a film about FL 2008 and blame Pres Bush for that as well


Truth and Chads Hang In the Balance Of 'Recount'

By Howard Kurtz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, May 24, 2008; Page C01

Things are not going well for Al Gore's team, as chronicled in the HBO film "Recount," when his longtime aide Ron Klain turns to a Democratic colleague in a bar and says: "I'm not even sure I like Al Gore."

A nice cinematic moment, and a total fabrication. Klain says -- and HBO acknowledges -- that it never happened.

The movie, which premieres tomorrow, is the latest docudrama to pledge allegiance to the facts of a historical event, but with fingers crossed. The director says he concocted certain details -- the technical term, I believe, is "making stuff up" -- in search of a larger truth.

Filmmakers love to toss around phrases such as "larger truth." But it's hard to argue that you're trafficking in nonfiction if you use people's real names -- James Baker, Warren Christopher, Katherine Harris -- and have them doing and saying things that never happened.

There's an obvious need for compression -- there were two Supreme Court hearings, not one -- in telling the tangled tale of the 36-day Florida court battle that gave the 2000 election to George W. Bush. And dialogue can't be verbatim when there's no way of knowing everything that was said in back rooms. But while dramatic license might support exaggeration, it can hardly justify some of the wholesale creation in which the movie indulges.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/23/AR2008052302887.html?sub=AR

[semi liberal girl]

You can't make this stuff up when it comes to the looney left. Democrats have a habit of making Hollywood liberals "experts"


Dern 'Devastated' by Florida 'Because There Were Uncounted Votes'
By Brent Baker | May 25, 2008 - 15:48 ET

Asked by Howard Kurtz on Sunday's Reliable Sources how she felt, “as a citizen,” when “the Supreme Court stepped in and essentially made George W. Bush President?”, actress Laura Dern, who plays Katherine Harris in HBO's Recount film to premiere tonight at 9 PM EDT/PDT, replied that “as a citizen, I felt devastated because there were uncounted votes” and “I left the experience with a real disillusionment about the process.”

Dern's personal view echoing the liberal/Democratic spin on what occurred matches the take expressed Wednesday by actor Kevin Spacey, who plays Gore operative Ron Klian in the movie: “It does seem that on the one hand the Bush people were trying to stop votes from being counted and the Gore people were just trying to get votes counted.”

The exchange, in the pre-taped interview, aired Sunday morning on CNN where Dern appeared with the director of the movie, Jay Roach:

HOWARD KURTZ: Let me take you back to 2000. As a citizen, how did you feel when th Supreme Court stepped in and essentially made George W. Bush President?

LAURA DERN: As a citizen, I felt devastated because there were uncounted votes. And I feel so proud as an American to consider my country being a place where voice always heard and that is what was so devastating about this recount was that I left the experience with a real disillusionment about the process and really waited for my country to show me this remarkable turn of voter reform so that we'd never have to experience that again and I'm still waiting.

[retiredman]

So you continue with your lies to justify the party. You have shown a blind following to the will of the party. Seting aside hate, racism, anti America rants, and out and out lies to defend the party and Obama

You are no longer atken seriously here, and with good reason. Nothing maters to but the party and power

You are a sad, pathitic, and pitiful case

Are you capable of arguing substance or is attacking the messenger the only thing you know how to do?

YOu claim to be a democrat. Did you EVER speak up to object to the superdelegate process? Did you speak up to object to the rules concerning primary dates? Can you show me how Hillary can be ahead in the popular vote count without FL and MI?

[semi liberal girl]

Are you capable of arguing substance or is attacking the messenger the only thing you know how to do?

YOu claim to be a democrat. Did you EVER speak up to object to the superdelegate process? Did you speak up to object to the rules concerning primary dates? Can you show me how Hillary can be ahead in the popular vote count without FL and MI?

I insult because you deserve it and you are nothing more then a spinless bootlicker

Like most hacks as long as the party wins, ypu could care less how the win is achieved. Now the party leaders are tossing out the votes and are going with the black guy so the black vote is secured

I find it funny HBO is airing as a hit piece on the 2000 election while the Dem party is telling Fl to fuck off - and so are you

[retiredman]

I insult because you deserve it and you are nothing more then a spinless bootlicker

Like most hacks as long as the party wins, ypu could care less how the win is achieved. Now the party leaders are tossing out the votes and are going with the black guy so the black vote is secured

I find it funny HBO is airing as a hit piece on the 2000 election while the Dem party is telling Fl to fuck off - and so are you

so...let me get this straight:

personal insults are perfectly acceptable behavior as long as the person doing the insulting feels that the person being insulted "deserves" it.

Have I got that about right?

[semi liberal girl]

so...let me get this straight:

personal insults are perfectly acceptable behavior as long as the person doing the insulting feels that the person being insulted "deserves" it.

Have I got that about right?

Wil you please STFU and stop whining!

You have insulted nearly everyone who has ever disagreed with you, issued death wishes, brought in family members, and insulted the mods when they will not roll over for you

You do deserve everything you are getting - you brought in on yourself

So again, STFU and grow up

[retiredman]

Wil you please STFU and stop whining!

You have insulted nearly everyone who has ever disagreed with you, issued death wishes, brought in family members, and insulted the mods when they will not roll over for you

You do deserve everything you are getting - you brought in on yourself

So again, STFU and grow up


I am trying to carry on an intelligent conversation with you. Are you capable of debating someone who disagrees with your point of view or are you not?

[semi liberal girl]

I am trying to carry on an intelligent conversation with you. Are you capable of debating someone who disagrees with your point of view or are you not?

Sorry if pointing out what a lar, hack, and hypoicrite you are is starting to get to you

You must not be man enough to take the truth when presented. Looking at how you glefuly bend over, grab the ankles, and take it for the party is a disgusting site to behold

But that is what Democrats have in store for all of us if the racist America hating Obama wins the WH (with the support of only 48 states in the nomination process and with less popular viotes then Hillary)

[retiredman]

Sorry if pointing out what a lar, hack, and hypoicrite you are is starting to get to you

You must not be man enough to take the truth when presented. Looking at how you glefuly bend over, grab the ankles, and take it for the party is a disgusting site to behold

But that is what Democrats have in store for all of us if the racist America hating Obama wins the WH (with the support of only 48 states in the nomination process and with less popular viotes then Hillary)

so...I guess that means you agree that you are NOT capable, nor have any desire to intelligently debate this, or any other issue with me. Have I got that about right?

[semi liberal girl]

so...I guess that means you agree that you are NOT capable, nor have any desire to intelligently debate this, or any other issue with me. Have I got that about right?

I guess I will have to stop with the facts and truth about Democrats, Obama, and the screwing of Fl and MI - and then you will consider it an inteligent debate

I know all about how you operate.

[retiredman]

I guess I will have to stop with the facts and truth about Democrats, Obama, and the screwing of Fl and MI - and then you will consider it an inteligent debate

I know all about how you operate.


I consider intelligent debate a discussion where points are raised and answered...arguments are made and refuted.

I understand full well that democrats will need to find a way to seat the delegations from MI and FL, but the truth of the matter is that their problems are self inflicted. They knew the rules going in... the candidates knew the rules going in. I don't feel that those states should be rewarded for willfully breaking the rules.

Now... you claim to be a democrat of long standing, yet you refuse to validate that claim by pointing out what planks of the democratic platform you have historically supported, other than "gay marriage" which isn't even a plank.

You claim to be a democrat of long standing yet you do not indicate that you have been upset with the democrat's superdelegate process which has been in effect for 26 years. Have you always objected, and if you did, and were a democrat, did you ever complain about the superdelegate process during those years?

[retiredman]

oh.. and did you notice?

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/election_2008_electoral_college_update

[Gaffer]

Speaking of rules. In Fl the legislature sets the date for the primaries. Not the DNC. So what gives the DNC the right to penalize their own party members for voting too early when it was a repub led legislature set the date? It's the states business when primaries are held, not the party hierarchy. The Mi and Fl argument should not even be an issue.

[red states rule]

Speaking of rules. In Fl the legislature sets the date for the primaries. Not the DNC. So what gives the DNC the right to penalize their own party members for voting too early when it was a repub led legislature set the date? It's the states business when primaries are held, not the party hierarchy. The Mi and Fl argument should not even be an issue.

It is something watching Democrats lie, cheat, and screw over their own voters to get the black guy the nomination

[retiredman]

It is something watching Democrats lie, cheat, and screw over their own voters to get the black guy the nomination


Hillary and Obama both knew and understood and accepted the ruling concerning MI and FL. Hillary - and unconcerned republicans - should quit whining.

[glockmail]

Speaking of rules. In Fl the legislature sets the date for the primaries. Not the DNC. So what gives the DNC the right to penalize their own party members for voting too early when it was a repub led legislature set the date? It's the states business when primaries are held, not the party hierarchy. The Mi and Fl argument should not even be an issue.
That's why I call them the Democrat Party instead of the Democratic Party. It is a top-down organization populated by union thugs and party bosses. Democracy has nothing to do with it. The Superdelegates are chosen by the bosses and they are able to subvert the will of the usefull idiots that make up their voting base.

[red states rule]

That's why I call them the Democrat Party instead of the Democratic Party. It is a top-down organization populated by union thugs and party bosses. Democracy has nothing to do with it. The Superdelegates are chosen by the bosses and they are able to subvert the will of the usefull idiots that make up their voting base.

At least the party bosses treat their voters like they treat the rest of the country. They consider them to stupid to make the right decision, so they will make it for them

[retiredman]

again...if you two fellows don't care for the process by which the democratic party comes up with its nominee, you are free to vote for someone else!

As I said earlier: Hillary and Obama both knew and understood and accepted the ruling concerning MI and FL.

Hillary - and unconcerned republicans - should quit whining. :laugh2:

[glockmail]

At least the party bosses treat their voters like they treat the rest of the country. They consider them to stupid to make the right decision, so they will make it for them
Be fair now Red, these bosses are smarter than us, since the went to Harvard and Priceton and Berkley. We should be happy to serve them in whatever capacity that they ask.

[red states rule]

Be fair now Red, these bosses are smarter than us, since the went to Harvard and Priceton and Berkley. We should be happy to serve them in whatever capacity that they ask.

I guess they are bitter libs clinging to their copy of "The Audacity of Hope" in one hand, and a white flag in the other

[glockmail]

I guess they are bitter libs clinging to their copy of "The Audacity of Hope" in one hand, and a white flag in the other Yes, just like I'm a bitter conservative clutching my gun in one hand a bible in the other. If only I had been better bred and edumcated I could be more like them.

By the way, is there a fly in here?

[red states rule]

Yes, just like I'm a bitter conservative clutching my gun in one hand a bible in the other. If only I had been better bred and edumcated I could be more like them.

By the way, is there a fly in here?

Then you could have been a typical blue nosed liberal and graduated from the Main Institute of Snobbery

[glockmail]

Then you could have been a typical blue nosed liberal and graduated from the Main Institute of Snobbery Do they have schools in Maine?

[red states rule]

Do they have schools in Maine?

Based on the interactions I have had with libs from Maine, the "schools" are more like liberal indoctrination centers

For example, they teach you change is good as long as it change to liberal principals (and I use that term loosely) from all other principals