AP IMPACT: Leaky New Orleans Levee Alarms Experts

[Pale Rider]

AP IMPACT: Leaky New Orleans Levee Alarms Experts



2008-05-21 14:47:31
By CAIN BURDEAU Associated Press Writer

NEW ORLEANS (AP) — Despite more than $22 million in repairs, a levee that broke with catastrophic effect during Hurricane Katrina is leaking again because of the mushy ground on which New Orleans was built, raising serious questions about the reliability of the city's flood defenses.

Outside engineering experts who have studied the project told The Associated Press that the type of seepage spotted at the 17th Street Canal in the Lakeview neighborhood afflicts other New Orleans levees, too, and could cause some of them to collapse during a storm.

The Army Corps of Engineers has spent about $4 billion so far of the $14 billion set aside by Congress to repair and upgrade the metropolitan area's hundreds of miles of levees by 2011. Some outside experts said the leak could mean that billions more will be needed and that some of the work already completed may need to be redone.

"It is all based on a 30-year-old defunct model of thinking, and it means that when they wake up to this one — really — our cost is going to increase significantly," said Bob Bea, a civil engineer at the University of California at Berkeley.

Article continues here... (http://charter.net/news/news_reader.php?storyid=14654941&feedid=14&storyid=14654941&feedid=14)

[manu1959]

lets see......they placed dirt on top of mud to hold the water back.......someone should ask the dutch for the proper way to do this......

[Abbey Marie]

Very clever of President Bush to get all that mud in there. Diabolical...

(Do you doubt he will be blamed?)

[manu1959]

Very clever of President Bush to get all that mud in there. Diabolical...

(Do you doubt he will be blamed?)

he tricked them into building their city back on top of the marsh and below sea level......anyone know who originally designed the city and built it.....

[mundame]

he tricked them into building their city back on top of the marsh and below sea level......anyone know who originally designed the city and built it.....


The French, Cherie.........

A leaky levee.

I think this is where I came in.

[manu1959]

The French, Cherie.........

A leaky levee.

I think this is where I came in.

who exactly was the question.....

Jean-Baptiste Le Moyne de Bienville

Father of New Orleans

Bienville wrote to the Directors of the Company in 1717 that he had discovered a crescent bend in the Mississippi River which he felt was safe from tidal waves and hurricanes and proposed that the new capital of the colony be built there. Permission was granted, and Bienville set off in 1718 to start construction. By 1719, a sufficient number of huts and storage houses had been built that Bienville began moving supplies and troops from Mobile. Following disagreements with the chief engineer of the colony, Le Blond de la Tour, Bienville ordered an assistant engineer, Adrien de Pauger, to draw up plans for the new city in 1720. In 1721, Pauger drew up the eleven-by-seven block rectangle now known as the French Quarter or the Vieux Carre. After moving into his new home on the site of what is now the Custom House, Bienville named the new city "La Nouvelle-Orléans" in honor of Philippe II, Duke of Orléans, the Prince Regent of France. New Orleans became the capital of French Louisiana by 1723, during Bienville's 3rd term.

so yet again the french are really responsible.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Baptiste_Le_Moyne_de_Bienville

[glockmail]

who exactly was the question.....

Jean-Baptiste Le Moyne de Bienville

Father of New Orleans

Bienville wrote to the Directors of the Company in 1717 that he had discovered a crescent bend in the Mississippi River which he felt was safe from tidal waves and hurricanes and proposed that the new capital of the colony be built there. Permission was granted, and Bienville set off in 1718 to start construction. By 1719, a sufficient number of huts and storage houses had been built that Bienville began moving supplies and troops from Mobile. Following disagreements with the chief engineer of the colony, Le Blond de la Tour, Bienville ordered an assistant engineer, Adrien de Pauger, to draw up plans for the new city in 1720. In 1721, Pauger drew up the eleven-by-seven block rectangle now known as the French Quarter or the Vieux Carre. After moving into his new home on the site of what is now the Custom House, Bienville named the new city "La Nouvelle-Orléans" in honor of Philippe II, Duke of Orléans, the Prince Regent of France. New Orleans became the capital of French Louisiana by 1723, during Bienville's 3rd term.

so yet again the french are really responsible.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Baptiste_Le_Moyne_de_Bienville

That is the only portion of NO that did not get flooded during Katrina.

The fact is that the remainder of the city is below normal flood elevation, and much of it is built on soft alluvial deposits (deposited naturally by water), and that alluvium was deposited on organic materials that made up prehistoric marshlands.

Another way to look at it is that the original French city is built on a large sand bar at the end of a river, and is essentially in the middle of the Gulf of Mexico. Geologically this entire area is not even part of the North American continent. The rest is built on marshes and tidal flats formed by smaller storm-shifted sand bars.

Most of the City was built by violating what are now common wetland laws. I'm sure before they put shovel in the ground the entire are was a vibrant estuary, probably with more fish producing habitat than 1000 miles of shoreline in both directions.

The US lost a tremendous opportunity with Katrina. With the money that is budgeted they could have easily abandoned these low-lying areas, demolished the structures, buried the debris on site and move the residents out to wherever they wanted to go. A few key breaches of some remaining levees, and the area would have reverted back to its natural splendor within a relatively short amount of time.

[Yurt]

That is the only portion of NO that did not get flooded during Katrina.

The fact is that the remainder of the city is below normal flood elevation, and much of it is built on soft alluvial deposits (deposited naturally by water), and that alluvium was deposited on organic materials that made up prehistoric marshlands.

Another way to look at it is that the original French city is built on a large sand bar at the end of a river, and is essentially in the middle of the Gulf of Mexico. Geologically this entire area is not even part of the North American continent. The rest is built on marshes and tidal flats formed by smaller storm-shifted sand bars.

Most of the City was built by violating what are now common wetland laws. I'm sure before they put shovel in the ground the entire are was a vibrant estuary, probably with more fish producing habitat than 1000 miles of shoreline in both directions.

The US lost a tremendous opportunity with Katrina. With the money that is budgeted they could have easily abandoned these low-lying areas, demolished the structures, buried the debris on site and move the residents out to wherever they wanted to go. A few key breaches of some remaining levees, and the area would have reverted back to its natural splendor within a relatively short amount of time.

but its a liberal city -- save the caribou, not the liberal marsh lands

[glockmail]

but its a liberal city -- save the caribou, not the liberal marsh lands
Yes. That's why the decision to rebuild was made emotionally, rather than systematically and logically.

[Pale Rider]

The other problem is N.O. is sinking. Has been since they built it. Pull the plug on it, let it flood and move the people. Because sooner or later, there'll be catastrophic flood failure, and there won't be any saving it at ANY cost. Why fight the inevitable?

[Little-Acorn]

The US lost a tremendous opportunity with Katrina. With the money that is budgeted they could have easily abandoned these low-lying areas, demolished the structures, buried the debris on site and move the residents out to wherever they wanted to go. A few key breaches of some remaining levees, and the area would have reverted back to its natural splendor within a relatively short amount of time.

Hey, George Bush blew up all the levees he could, remember? Al Sharpton or somebody said so. I guess we've come full circle now. Time to blame Bush for NOT BLOWING UP ENOUGH LEVEES in New Orleans!!!!

[ranger]

I'm with Pale Rider. Pull the plug on New Orleans and let it circle down the drain like the large turd that it is.

[KitchenKitten99]

The article reminds me of a part in "Monty Python & The Holy Grail" where the guy whose son is getting married, tells about how many castles he built that sank into the ground before he actually had a home that didn't sink, despite what everyone told him would happen. Ironic.

[glockmail]

The other problem is N.O. is sinking. Has been since they built it. Pull the plug on it, let it flood and move the people. Because sooner or later, there'll be catastrophic flood failure, and there won't be any saving it at ANY cost. Why fight the inevitable?
It is sinking because the organic material degrades over time and settles. The alluvium on top of that settles as well, due to natural compaction over time. You're exacly right that there will be another huge failure. Its only a matter of time, and its stupid to deny that.

[Yurt]

It is sinking because the organic material degrades over time and settles. The alluvium on top of that settles as well, due to natural compaction over time. You're exacly right that there will be another huge failure. Its only a matter of time, and its stupid to deny that.

and if a republican is in pres office, he/she will be blamed so long as the local polis are dems

[Pale Rider]

and if a republican is in pres office, he/she will be blamed so long as the local polis are dems

It just amazes me how the inevitable can be completely ignored by the so called "experts."

N.O. sooner or later will be under water, and there's not a damn thing anyone can do about it, so why even spend another dime on trying to stop it?

Stupid fucking people man.... STUPID!