War No More The world according to B. Hussein Obama

[82Marine89]

How can liberal-progressives believe that Senator Obama will change human nature sufficiently to bring everybody together in domestic political harmony and world peace?The implicit belief of liberal-progressives is that their socialist religion will, by equally redistributing income and wealth, fundamentally change human nature. Eliminating socialism’s version of original sin - private property - theoretically will eliminate aggression, crime, and war.

Only capitalist greed, in that religious conception, stands in the way of a harmonious, one-world socialism.

One-worldism, however, leads to moral relativism, because necessarily it both rejects the spiritual dimension of the individual human soul in favor of political collectivism, and it demands rejection of patriotism and pride in one’s own nation and culture. This dogma is hammered into college students today, accounting for the disparagement of American business and the rampant anti-Americanism on campuses. The latter was evidenced in a minor way by the remark of Senator Obama’s wife that in the past she had seen nothing of which to be proud in the United States.

Socialist one-worldism accounts for Senator Obama’s presumably sincere, but utterly naive, belief that talking face to face with our national enemies without preconditions will magically defuse their burning desires to destroy the United States. It leads to Senator John Kerry’s foreign policy “sensitivity” and liberals’ apotheosis of the UN and a non-existent “thing” called the international community. It requires giving the UN a veto over our own national security interests. It requires a faith that diplomacy alone can forestall international conflicts. And it dictates a diminution of our military strength and pulling immediately out of Iraq.

Liberal-progressive philosophical speculation necessitates that history be a tangible “thing” moving along a discernible, predictable, progressive path, inexorably toward a single world government. A single world government, of course, would require the ultimate in collectivist, iron-fisted power, unless it is possible, as liberal-progressive-socialists believe, to change human nature fundamentally, using materialistic means.

This possibility first was articulated in the early 1800s by socialism’s founders, Henri de Saint-Simon and Auguste Comte, then taken up 20 years later by Karl Marx. Different ends of history were postulated, but the underlying principle is that the “thingness” of history exists and can be predicted. All three saw the increased productivity of science applied to industrialization as the engine of historical progress.

Comte articulated his Religion of Humanity, in which the entirety of the human race, as evolved by the progress of history, was to be the object of human veneration in a godless world.

Marx, of course, saw the end of history as the socialistic state in which transformed human nature would result in gradual withering away of formal government, with political power in the benevolent hands of the workers of the world, united by the Socialist International.

Thus liberal-progressives can denounce Judeo-Christianity and fervently embrace the mythology of their socialist religion that under a President Obama our nation and the world would become peaceful and harmonious, with plenty for all.

Despite Senator Obama’s 20-plus years’ embrace of the heretical Black Liberation Theology variant of Christianity that he now rejects, his method of change is not the spirit of Divine love preached by Jesus Christ. Instead he proposes to harmonize society with sharply higher taxes, greater Federal deficit spending, and massively expanded regulation of business and personal activity. This also rests upon the doctrine of Saint-Simon, Comte, and Marx, who saw the laws of history as driven by atheistic, material factors.


Click for full text... (http://www.therealitycheck.org/2008/05/16/war-no-more/)

[Yurt]

Despite Senator Obama’s 20-plus years’ embrace of the heretical Black Liberation Theology variant of Christianity that he now rejects

i was not aware he rejected his church...

[retiredman]

i was not aware he rejected his church...

nor was I. TUCC is a vibrant successful church with many positive ministries. I would be disappointed if Obama were to reject his CHURCH because of the failings of his PREACHER.

[red states rule]

nor was I. TUCC is a vibrant successful church with many positive ministries. I would be disappointed if Obama were to reject his CHURCH because of the failings of his PREACHER.

If Barry grew a pair, and left the "church" he would lose some of the black vote. So we will never do what is right - only what helps him politically

[retiredman]

If Barry grew a pair, and left the "church" he would lose some of the black vote. So we will never do what is right - only what helps him politically


As I said, I would be very disappointed if Obama left his church and abandoned all of the vibrant and relevant missions that TUCC is involved with simply because of a disagreement with his pastor. UCC churches are about the congregations, not the ministers.

[red states rule]

As I said, I would be very disappointed if Obama left his church and abandoned all of the vibrant and relevant missions that TUCC is involved with simply because of a disagreement with his pastor. UCC churches are about the congregations, not the ministers.

With barry, it is all about politics and the hell with everything else

Here is more on Barry's "church"

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[retiredman]

I would beg to differ. Barack Obama is a member of a vibrant UCC congregation with many successful and vital missions to the people of Chicago and beyond.

[red states rule]

I would beg to differ. Barack Obama is a member of a vibrant UCC congregation with many successful and vital missions to the people of Chicago and beyond.

Like spreading hate?

[retiredman]

Like spreading hate?


no...like addressing hunger and homelessness and teen pregnancy and drug abuse and domestic violence, to name a few.

Aren't those all worthwhile and appropriate missions for a church?

[red states rule]

no...like addressing hunger and homelessness and teen pregnancy and drug abuse and domestic violence, to name a few.

Aren't those all worthwhile and appropriate missions for a church?

Again, more liberal double standards. I remember well what libs had to say about Pastors like Jerry Falwell; and when Pres Bush spoke at Bob Jones

Libs played the race card where none exists

But they give Barry and his "church" a pass

[retiredman]

Again, more liberal double standards. I remember well what libs had to say about Pastors like Jerry Falwell; and when Pres Bush spoke at Bob Jones

Libs played the race card where none exists

But they give Barry and his "church" a pass


I am a member of the United Church of Christ. My denomination is quite proud of the TUCC and their inspired work in the community. Cna you answer my question about the relevance and appropriateness of their missions?

[red states rule]

I am a member of the United Church of Christ. My denomination is quite proud of the TUCC and their inspired work in the community. Cna you answer my question about the relevance and appropriateness of their missions?

I am not surprised in the least you are a memeber of such a hate driven "church"

You could have written Wright's "sermons"

[retiredman]

I am not surprised in the least you are a memeber of such a hate driven "church"

You could have written Wright's "sermons"

can you answer my questions about the relevance and importance and appropriateness of TUCC's missions in the community?

[red states rule]

can you answer my questions about the relevance and importance and appropriateness of TUCC's missions in the community?

The only contribution I see coming from Barry's "church" is they are making sure racism, and hate is passed down to the next generation of blacks

[retiredman]

The only contribution I see coming from Barry's "church" is they are making sure racism, and hate is passed down to the next generation of blacks

you really need to learn a bit more about the wide variety of mssions that TUCC participates in. You seem to be willfully ignorant of anything about the church beyond that which you get in campaign soundbites.

[red states rule]

you really need to learn a bit more about the wide variety of mssions that TUCC participates in. You seem to be willfully ignorant of anything about the church beyond that which you get in campaign soundbites.

Not willfully ignorant - your liberal side is coming out now

I see hate and racism being preached from the pulpit. Barry claims he never heard those rants. Yet the video shown of TV is from the church's own DVD, and he knew this racist bastard for 20 years

You on the other hand are doing what you do best - giving a pass and making excuses for your boy strictly for political reasons

[retiredman]

Not willfully ignorant - your liberal side is coming out now

I see hate and racism being preached from the pulpit. Barry claims he never heard those rants. Yet the video shown of TV is from the church's own DVD, and he knew this racist bastard for 20 years

You on the other hand are doing what you do best - giving a pass and making excuses for your boy strictly for political reasons


as I said, a UCC church is about its congregation and its mission(s), not its pastor. I suggested that you perhaps make yourself aware of all of the good works that have been done and are being done by the TUCC in Chicago in such areas as homelessness, hunger, teen pregnancy, domestic violence and drug abuse. Do you NOT consider those to be worthwhile missions for a church?

[red states rule]

as I said, a UCC church is about its congregation and its mission(s), not its pastor. I suggested that you perhaps make yourself aware of all of the good works that have been done and are being done by the TUCC in Chicago in such areas as homelessness, hunger, teen pregnancy, domestic violence and drug abuse. Do you NOT consider those to be worthwhile missions for a church?

The point is - and the one you are ignoring - is the racist pastor sprewing his hate - and your boy sitting there and never speaking out until the video hit

Even then, Barry did not toss Wright undr the bus until Wright attacked Barry

[theHawk]

I would beg to differ. Barack Obama is a member of a vibrant UCC congregation with many successful and vital missions to the people of Chicago and beyond.

"Vibrant"? Is that the new codeword for racist?

[red states rule]

"Vibrant"? Is that the new codeword for racist?

Yep, as is "vital missions"

[retiredman]

The point is - and the one you are ignoring - is the racist pastor sprewing his hate - and your boy sitting there and never speaking out until the video hit

Even then, Barry did not toss Wright undr the bus until Wright attacked Barry

I have never ignored that. I point out to you that, as a member of a UCC church myself for many years, my continued affiliation with my church has a great deal to do with the things that my church does in the community and has very little to do with the sermons from the minister. You refuse to acknowledge that TUCC has many wonderful community outreach missions and that those missions would be, and should be all that any member of TUCC needs as justification of their continued membership and participation.

[retiredman]

"Vibrant"? Is that the new codeword for racist?

if you consider addressing hunger and homelessness and domestic violence and drug abuse and teen pregnancy to be racist missions....

[red states rule]

I have never ignored that. I point out to you that, as a member of a UCC church myself for many years, my continued affiliation with my church has a great deal to do with the things that my church does in the community and has very little to do with the sermons from the minister. You refuse to acknowledge that TUCC has many wonderful community outreach missions and that those missions would be, and should be all that any member of TUCC needs as justification of their continued membership and participation.


I am looking at a liberal politican who waited until the last minute to denounce racist comments he never heard

and his supporters defending both Wright's and Barry's own blatant racism

[retiredman]

I am looking at a liberal politican who waited until the last minute to denounce racist comments he never heard

and his supporters defending both Wright's and Barry's own blatant racism


I am well aware of what you are "looking at". I only point out those issues that you are NOT looking at... but clearly, that is because you wish to remain ignorant on the issue. I understand, RSR. I really do.

[red states rule]

I am well aware of what you are "looking at". I only point out those issues that you are NOT looking at... but clearly, that is because you wish to remain ignorant on the issue. I understand, RSR. I really do.

Your excuses for your boy is understandable. No matter what the issue, you put your party above all else

You ignore his racism, his hate, his bimbo wifes rants, all for politcal reasons

Here is the excuses all rolled into one

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[retiredman]

why do you avoid my simple questions, rsr?

[red states rule]

why do you avoid my simple questions, rsr?

Not avoiding it at all. You seem to want to excuse liberal racism on all fronts

[retiredman]

Not avoiding it at all. You seem to want to excuse liberal racism on all fronts


if you aren't avoiding it, when will you answer it?

[red states rule]

if you aren't avoiding it, when will you answer it?

What does your spin have to do with the issue that Barry is pleading ignorance about Wrights rants, and the fact he has not left that "church" since Wrights replacement is a racist as well?

Again, party above else with you

[Yurt]

as I said, a UCC church is about its congregation and its mission(s), not its pastor. I suggested that you perhaps make yourself aware of all of the good works that have been done and are being done by the TUCC in Chicago in such areas as homelessness, hunger, teen pregnancy, domestic violence and drug abuse. Do you NOT consider those to be worthwhile missions for a church?

you have no room to talk about ignoring questions in people's posts, you do it quite frequently....

let us see the mission/vision statement of TUCC:

The vision statement of Trinity United Church of Christ is based upon the systematized liberation theology that started in 1969 with the publication of Dr. James Cone’s book, Black Power and Black Theology. (emphasis original)


--further, if you play RSR's video, the 10 point [The Pastor as well as the membership of Trinity United Church of Christ is committed to a 10-point Vision] statement read then has been changed. interesting.

[retiredman]

you have no room to talk about ignoring questions in people's posts, you do it quite frequently....

let us see the mission/vision statement of TUCC:

The vision statement of Trinity United Church of Christ is based upon the systematized liberation theology that started in 1969 with the publication of Dr. James Cone’s book, Black Power and Black Theology. (emphasis original)


--further, if you play RSR's video, the 10 point [The Pastor as well as the membership of Trinity United Church of Christ is committed to a 10-point Vision] statement read then has been changed. interesting.

my question had to do with the validity of the myriad of community outreach missions that TUCC supports.

[red states rule]

my question had to do with the validity of the myriad of community outreach missions that TUCC supports.

Of course. the last thing you want to talk about is your boys judgement, credibility, and honesty.

Or lack thereof

[retiredman]

Of course. the last thing you want to talk about is your boys judgement, credibility, and honesty.

Or lack thereof

I would refer you to my signature line for a quote from you which is particularly "on point". The ONLY things you ever "debate" are the things that YOU want to talk about. YOu NEVER show the courage to answer someone else's questions.

My point was: UCC Churches are primarily about the congregations themselves and the missions that they choose to carry out. They are not about a cult of the personality surrounding ministers. I have remained a faithful member of my church through the ministries of five different pastors. Some were good...some, not so good. They NEVER were the reason I came to church and they certainly would not be the reason that I would leave my church.

I asked you if the various community missions that TUCC was involved with were, from your perspective, appropriate missions for a church and missions that would inspire dedication to those missions on the part of congregants.

[red states rule]

I would refer you to my signature line for a quote from you which is particularly "on point". The ONLY things you ever "debate" are the things that YOU want to talk about. YOu NEVER show the courage to answer someone else's questions.

My point was: UCC Churches are primarily about the congregations themselves and the missions that they choose to carry out. They are not about a cult of the personality surrounding ministers. I have remained a faithful member of my church through the ministries of five different pastors. Some were good...some, not so good. They NEVER were the reason I came to church and they certainly would not be the reason that I would leave my church.

I asked you if the various community missions that TUCC was involved with were, from your perspective, appropriate missions for a church and missions that would inspire dedication to those missions on the part of congregants.


The point you are trying to avoid is the lies of Obama saying he was unaware of the racist rants, and why he defended Wright (until Wirght attacked him)

I understand how you want to ignore the issues of Barry's judgement, and credibility - even you can't spin those shortcomings

To you Obama worshippers like you, racism is fine when it comes from the left

[Yurt]

my question had to do with the validity of the myriad of community outreach missions that TUCC supports.

so their vision statement is invalid?

[red states rule]

so their vision statement is invalid?

You mean the mission statement where it is all black all the time?

[retiredman]

so their vision statement is invalid?

my question had to do with the validity of the myriad of community outreach missions that TUCC supports.

Care to answer it?

[Yurt]

my question had to do with the validity of the myriad of community outreach missions that TUCC supports.

Care to answer it?

so what? the KKK also did some good in their respective communities, so did the nazis.

is their mission statement invalid?

[red states rule]

my question had to do with the validity of the myriad of community outreach missions that TUCC supports.

Care to answer it?

So in your liberal moonbat world, the rabid racism is swept under the rug while trying to put makeup of the pigs face by saying what good they are are doing

How typical of liberals

[retiredman]

So in your liberal moonbat world, the rabid racism is swept under the rug while trying to put makeup of the pigs face by saying what good they are are doing

How typical of liberals


care to answer the question?

[retiredman]

so what? the KKK also did some good in their respective communities, so did the nazis.

is their mission statement invalid?

quite valid.

[red states rule]

care to answer the question?

You keep trying to duck the real issue. How about the "churchs" all black mission statement?

More racism for you to excuse MFM

[red states rule]

quite valid.

I doubt if you would be "tolerant" if a church stood for WHITE vaules, and the WHITE community

[Yurt]

quite valid.

so what about the KKK and nazis doing some good in their communities? why did you ignore that point? typical

[red states rule]

so what about the KKK and nazis doing some good in their communities? why did you ignore that point? typical

Not surprising at all Yurt

[retiredman]

so what about the KKK and nazis doing some good in their communities? why did you ignore that point? typical

It was a statement from you. I answered your question. Are you suggesting that you have addressed every statement I have ever made in all the posts we have written back and forth to one another?

I thought - and still think - that comparing the United Church of Christ to the nazis and the KKK is insulting, so I chose not to address it.

[red states rule]

I thought - and still think - that comparing the United Church of Christ to the nazis and the KKK is insulting, so I chose not to address it.

Both are fucking racists, and both blame a race for their problems

The comparison is dead on

[Pale Rider]

nor was I. TUCC is a vibrant successful church with many positive ministries. I would be disappointed if Obama were to reject his CHURCH because of the failings of his PREACHER.

Yeah that would be a disappointment if he left that "RACIST" church.... :uhoh:

By the way, what amount black are you?

[red states rule]

Yeah that would be a disappointment if he left that "RACIST" church.... :uhoh:

By the way, what amount black are you?

Barry would lose some of the black racist vote. Which seems to be a big voter block in Chicago

[retiredman]

Yeah that would be a disappointment if he left that "RACIST" church.... :uhoh:

again...I don't think you quite understand the priorities of a UCC church. It is congregation and mission first and foremost. ministers ought not to be reasons to abandon fellowship and mission.

[Pale Rider]

again...I don't think you quite understand the priorities of a UCC church. It is congregation and mission first and foremost. ministers ought not to be reasons to abandon fellowship and mission.

Oh I know fully well what that "RACIST" church is about.... BLACK first this, BLACK first that, BLACK, BLACK, BLACK!

If that isn't racist, NOTHING is.

You buy into it lemming. I'll view it as the racist entity it is.

[red states rule]

again...I don't think you quite understand the priorities of a UCC church. It is congregation and mission first and foremost. ministers ought not to be reasons to abandon fellowship and mission.

We understand the priorities of BArry's church just fine

Spreading hate, and racial bigotry. Obama sat there for 20 years and took it all in

Now we know why Ms Obama is filed with hate toward Amercia and white folks

[retiredman]

We understand the priorities of BArry's church just fine




clearly, you don't. but just as clearly is the fact that you really have no desire to understand...

that's fine.

[red states rule]

clearly, you don't. but just as clearly is the fact that you really have no desire to understand...

that's fine.

I understand them fine

We understand the priorities of BArry's church just fine

Spreading hate, and racial bigotry. Obama sat there for 20 years and took it all in

Now we know why Ms Obama is filed with hate toward Amercia and white folks

And we all know you condone liberal racism and will ignore the facts about Barry, his wife,a nd their inner circle

Party above all else with you

[retiredman]

I understand them fine

We understand the priorities of BArry's church just fine



no...RSR....you really don't. But then, I understand why you would not want to.

and who is this "we" you keep referring to? do you have a mouse in your pocket or were you elected DP celebrity spokesmodel while I was away in Mexico....if so, you need to talk with Palerider, because he is clearly under the impression that HE speaks for the entire board.

[red states rule]

no...RSR....you really don't. But then, I understand why you would not want to.

and who is this "we" you keep referring to? do you have a mouse in your pocket or were you elected DP celebrity spokesmodel while I was away in Mexico....if so, you need to talk with Palerider, because he is clearly under the impression that HE speaks for the entire board.

The WE is the majority of the board, and the voters in the polls :laugh2:

[retiredman]

The WE is the majority of the board, and the voters in the polls :laugh2:

really? a "majority"? did you have a big meeting.... take votes.... how many voted for you as spokesmodel?

a majority would be 264 members. that's impressive, if you've got a link, I'd love to see it!

[red states rule]

really? a "majority"? did you have a big meeting.... take votes.... how many voted for you as spokesmodel?

You can deny what the majority of posters ave to say about your racist boy and his racist church - that is all you have left to try and defend him

The voters are speaking lound and clear. The liberal media is playing the race card, and Barry is blaming Fox News for the huge loss he wil suffer in KY :laugh2:

[retiredman]

You can deny what the majority of posters ave to say about your racist boy and his racist church - that is all you have left to try and defend him

The voters are speaking lound and clear. The liberal media is playing the race card, and Barry is blaming Fox News for the huge loss he wil suffer in KY :laugh2:

264 members of DP think Obama is a racist and his church is racist?

I doubt you can back that up.

and imagine this: after all the mud thrown about Wright and Lesko and Ayers...Obama STILL leads McSame in the national polls.

[red states rule]

264 members of DP think Obama is a racist and his church is racist?

I doubt you can back that up.

and imagine this: after all the mud thrown about Wright and Lesko and Ayers...Obama STILL leads McSame in the national polls.

The majority of those who post think so

Barry is dioing his best to show what a wacko he is

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=14465

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=14458

BTW, in the latest polls, McCain is UP on Barry by 1 point :laugh2:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/national.html

[retiredman]

The majority of those who post think so :link:

BTW, in the latest polls, McCain is UP on Barry by 1 point
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/national.html

I thought you placed a great deal of value on the realclearpolitics format...where they averaged the latest polls to eliminate bias? That is what you used to say all the time...RCP was your favorite source. RCP has Obama up by 3.4%

[Yurt]

again...I don't think you quite understand the priorities of a UCC church. It is congregation and mission first and foremost. ministers ought not to be reasons to abandon fellowship and mission.

do you have link where TUCC says that? all i see from their webiste is that they are first and foremost a black afro centered church committed to the black community first and foremost. nothing on the website supports your assertions.

and it insults you? oh, you got your feelings hurt....basically you i proved your point wrong and you can't handle it. your point was that we should not focus on what "we" not you, perceive to be negative aspects of the church and instead focus on the good, as if the good outweighs the bad. i showed you that bad groups on the past did some good, thus your point is wrong.

:)

[Yurt]

really? a "majority"? did you have a big meeting.... take votes.... how many voted for you as spokesmodel?

a majority would be 264 members. that's impressive, if you've got a link, I'd love to see it!

it is his personal experience, he does not need an internet link to prove you wrong :laugh2:

[red states rule]

I thought you placed a great deal of value on the realclearpolitics format...where they averaged the latest polls to eliminate bias? That is what you used to say all the time...RCP was your favorite source. RCP has Obama up by 3.4%

You are the one who said in the "current polls" I am pointing out you are wrong - as usual

The average is still with the margin of error

So no matter how you slice it - your boy is NOT ahead of Mccain

No copmment on more of your boy's rants?

I understand why you are ducking those threads

[retiredman]

do you have link where TUCC says that? all i see from their webiste is that they are first and foremost a black afro centered church committed to the black community first and foremost. nothing on the website supports your assertions.

and it insults you? oh, you got your feelings hurt....basically you i proved your point wrong and you can't handle it. your point was that we should not focus on what "we" not you, perceive to be negative aspects of the church and instead focus on the good, as if the good outweighs the bad. i showed you that bad groups on the past did some good, thus your point is wrong.



again... comparing the united church of christ to the kkk or the nazis is insulting to me.... considering that I am a member of that church. for you not to understand that is incomprehensible to me. I suggest you go to the national UCC website where you can gain a better understanding of how congregational churches across the country operate and what their priorities are.

and I do not feel that the vision statement of TUCC, even when taken alone and not in context, deserves such insulting comparisions.

[retiredman]

it is his personal experience, he does not need an internet link to prove you wrong :laugh2:

he didn't say anything about his personal experience. he used the term "majority". that has a specific meaning that I asked him to justify.

[Pale Rider]

again... comparing the united church of christ to the kkk or the nazis is insulting to me.... considering that I am a member of that church. for you not to understand that is incomprehensible to me. I suggest you go to the national UCC website where you can gain a better understanding of how congregational churches across the country operate and what their priorities are.

and I do not feel that the vision statement of TUCC, even when taken alone and not in context, deserves such insulting comparisions.


And heeeeeeeeeerrrrrrreeees your picture.....

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2116/2093273754_4fb7884b81_o.jpg

[retiredman]

You are the one who said in the "current polls" I am pointing out you are wrong - as usual

The average is still with the margin of error

So no matter how you slice it - your boy is NOT ahead of Mccain

No copmment on more of your boy's rants?

I understand why you are ducking those threads


"current polls" would indicate more than one.

I am NOT wrong.

[Yurt]

he didn't say anything about his personal experience. he used the term "majority". that has a specific meaning that I asked him to justify.

well then, it is my personal experience that what he says is true and you are wrong.

[Yurt]

again... comparing the united church of christ to the kkk or the nazis is insulting to me.... considering that I am a member of that church. for you not to understand that is incomprehensible to me. I suggest you go to the national UCC website where you can gain a better understanding of how congregational churches across the country operate and what their priorities are.

and I do not feel that the vision statement of TUCC, even when taken alone and not in context, deserves such insulting comparisions.

again, i am not making a direct comparison (you are putting words in my mouth), simply showing that other bad organizations do good as well.

i see you cannot link to anything on their website that backs up your assertions. more "personal" experience :rolleyes:

[retiredman]

well then, it is my personal experience that what he says is true and you are wrong.

how can I argue with that? your personal experiences are so wide ranging.

[red states rule]

"current polls" would indicate more than one.

I am NOT wrong.

So even though McCAin is up by one point in 2 polls - you say Barry is ahead of him

Hmmm, liberal spin at its "best"

The bords baghdad bob lies again

[retiredman]

again, i am not making a direct comparison (you are putting words in my mouth), simply showing that other bad organizations do good as well.

i see you cannot link to anything on their website that backs up your assertions. more "personal" experience :rolleyes:

http://www.tucc.org/ministries.htm
http://www.tucc.org/mission.htm

they have a vibrant ministry and multiple missions. One of the articles that you supposedly debunked from The Christian Century was ALL about how TUCC is a congregational mission based organization.

[retiredman]

So even though McCAin is up by one point in 2 polls - you say Barry is ahead of him

Hmmm, liberal spin at its "best"

The bords baghdad bob lies again

what is the RCP average?

[red states rule]

what is the RCP average?

The average is within the margon of error

So you are giddy over your boy having a 3 point lead over McCain? To listen to your rants, Barry should be up by double digits :laugh2:

Seems Wright, Resko, Ayers, Barry telling people they can't drive their SUV's, or how people can't eat all they want is starting to come home to roost

[Yurt]

http://www.tucc.org/ministries.htm
http://www.tucc.org/mission.htm

they have a vibrant ministry and multiple missions. One of the articles that you supposedly debunked from The Christian Century was ALL about how TUCC is a congregational mission based organization.

fair enough, let us see what those ministries are really about:

We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian... Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community.

that supports my assertions more than it does yours. the weight of their ministries, mission, vision are focused on black people, not all people as you have claimed.

[Yurt]

how can I argue with that? your personal experiences are so wide ranging.

:dance:

[retiredman]

So even though McCAin is up by one point in 2 polls - you say Barry is ahead of him

Hmmm, liberal spin at its "best"

The bords baghdad bob lies again

I told you before. I don't lie and I have asked you to refrain from insulting me by saying so.

http://www.pollingreport.com/wh08gen.htm

Gallup has Obama up, Quinnipiac has Obama up, ABC/Washington Post has Obama up, NPR has Obama up, LA Times/Bloomberg has Obama up, Ipsos has Obama up, CBS/NYT has Obama up, Diageo/Hotline has Obama up, CNN/Opinion Research has Obama up, Fox News/Opinion Dynamics has Obama up, NBC/WSJ has Obama up, Pew has Obama up, Newsweek has Obama up, Cook Political Report has Obama up.

spin away that!

[retiredman]

fair enough, let us see what those ministries are really about:

We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian... Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community.

that supports my assertions more than it does yours. the weight of their ministries, mission, vision are focused on black people, not all people as you have claimed.


their ministries are focused on their community.

but I know you choose to disregard that. I understand.

[red states rule]

I told you before. I don't lie and I have asked you to refrain from insulting me by saying so.

http://www.pollingreport.com/wh08gen.htm

Gallup has Obama up, Quinnipiac has Obama up, ABC/Washington Post has Obama up, NPR has Obama up, LA Times/Bloomberg has Obama up, Ipsos has Obama up, CBS/NYT has Obama up, Diageo/Hotline has Obama up, CNN/Opinion Research has Obama up, Fox News/Opinion Dynamics has Obama up, NBC/WSJ has Obama up, Pew has Obama up, Newsweek has Obama up, Cook Political Report has Obama up.

spin away that!

Ok Bob

I see a trend here. BAry was up by 7 now he is down by one point. That is an 8 point swing Bobby


Election 2008 National Head-to-Head Polls

General Election: McCain vs. Obama
Poll Date Sample Obama (D) McCain (R) Spread
RCP Average 05/07 - 05/18 -- 47.2 43.4 Obama +3.8

Gallup Tracking 05/14 - 05/18 4444 RV 46 45 Obama +1.0

Rasmussen Tracking 05/15 - 05/18 1600 LV 44 45 McCain +1.0

Quinnipiac 05/08 - 05/12 1475 RV 47 40 Obama +7.0

ABC News/Wash Post 05/08 - 05/11 1122 A 51 44 Obama +7.0

POS/GQR 05/07 - 05/08 800 LV 48 43 Obama +5.0

[retiredman]

Ok Bob

I see a trend here.


so do I!

Gallup has Obama up, Quinnipiac has Obama up, ABC/Washington Post has Obama up, NPR has Obama up, LA Times/Bloomberg has Obama up, Ipsos has Obama up, CBS/NYT has Obama up, Diageo/Hotline has Obama up, CNN/Opinion Research has Obama up, Fox News/Opinion Dynamics has Obama up, NBC/WSJ has Obama up, Pew has Obama up, Newsweek has Obama up, Cook Political Report has Obama up.

[red states rule]

so do I!

Gallup has Obama up, Quinnipiac has Obama up, ABC/Washington Post has Obama up, NPR has Obama up, LA Times/Bloomberg has Obama up, Ipsos has Obama up, CBS/NYT has Obama up, Diageo/Hotline has Obama up, CNN/Opinion Research has Obama up, Fox News/Opinion Dynamics has Obama up, NBC/WSJ has Obama up, Pew has Obama up, Newsweek has Obama up, Cook Political Report has Obama up.

Ok Bob, delete the part of the post that shows your boy slipping in the polls. Like the war on terror, libs like you stick your fingers in your ears and go on blindly :laugh2:

[retiredman]

Ok Bob, delete the part of the post that shows your boy slipping in the polls. Like the war on terror, libs like you stick your fingers in your ears and go on blindly :laugh2:in many polls, his lead has increased. I really am not worried too much.

and there was no "8 point swing"...those were two different polls. Like I said... he's up in nearly all of them.

[red states rule]

in many polls, his lead has increased. I really am not worried too much.

An 8 point swing - I am sure Barry is.

He is blaming everyone else but his own stupidity and liberalism for his losses

[retiredman]

An 8 point swing - I am sure Barry is.

He is blaming everyone else but his own stupidity and liberalism for his losses


again...it is not an 8 point negative swing...it was comparing two different polls...apples and oranges.

Obama has increased his lead in Gallup... increased his lead in Quinnipiac. increased his lead in ABC/WP...increased his lead in NPR...increased his lead in LA Times/Bloomberg... increased his lead in Ipsos...increased his lead in CBS.... increased his lead in Diageo/Hotline....

those are the facts.

[red states rule]

again...it is not an 8 point negative swing...it was comparing two different polls...apples and oranges.

Obama has increased his lead in Gallup... increased his lead in Quinnipiac. increased his lead in ABC/WP...increased his lead in NPR...increased his lead in LA Times/Bloomberg... increased his lead in Ipsos...increased his lead in CBS.... increased his lead in Diageo/Hotline....

those are the facts.

Whatever you say Bob :rolleyes:

Keep cherrypicking what polls you want - after going with RCP list of polls,a nd they show the 8 point drop for your boy

[retiredman]

Whatever you say Bob :rolleyes:

Keep cherrypicking what polls you want - after going with RCP list of polls,a nd they show the 8 point drop for your boy

they show no such drop. They show ONE poll with him having a seven point lead and another poll entirely showing a one point lead for McCain...that is not an eight point drop. It is apples and oranges...and I showed you the page from pollingreport which shows poll after poll after poll with Obama leading and his lead increasing.... run away from that if you can.

[red states rule]

they show no such drop. They show ONE poll with him having a seven point lead and another poll entirely showing a one point lead for McCain...that is not an eight point drop. It is apples and oranges...and I showed you the page from pollingreport which shows poll after poll after poll with Obama leading and his lead increasing.... run away from that if you can.

Hey Bob. the polls you listed had Barry up by 7

Now the most recent polls show McCain up by 1

That is an 8 point drop for your boy.

[retiredman]

Hey Bob. the polls you listed had Barry up by 7

Now the most recent polls show McCain up by 1

That is an 8 point drop for your boy.


one poll has him up by 7

another poll entirely has him down by 1.

that is not an 8 point drop.

it is apples and oranges.

go look at all the polls listed on the polligreport page.... nearly every one shows him ahead now, and his lead is BIGGER than it was the last time the same poll was taken.

[theHawk]

if you consider addressing hunger and homelessness and domestic violence and drug abuse and teen pregnancy to be racist missions....

I've never heard progams that help the homeless and teens described as "vibrant". Its usually a word to describe something like an exciting performance. Kind of like Rev. Wrights racists and hate filled rants on the pulpit. :laugh2:

[red states rule]

Sorry Bob. a one point lead is nothing to crow aboit in one poll. when others show Barry falling

BTW, the polls showing the 8 point drop were dated 5/15

Keep spining Bob. it is good comic relief

[theHawk]

one poll has him up by 7

another poll entirely has him down by 1.

that is not an 8 point drop.

it is apples and oranges.

go look at all the polls listed on the polligreport page.... nearly every one shows him ahead now, and his lead is BIGGER than it was the last time the same poll was taken.

National polls are worthless. McCain is going to win the red states, Obama the blue. Its all about the swing states and the electorial vote.

[retiredman]

Sorry Bob. a one point lead is nothing to crow aboit in one poll. when others show Barry falling

BTW, the polls showing the 8 point drop were dated 5/15

Keep spining Bob. it is good comic relief

no poll shows an 8 point drop. different polls have different figures. the RCP average is 3.4. On polligreport, a dozen or so polls are listed and in nearly every one, Obama leads and his lead is increasing. run away from that.

[red states rule]

National polls are worthless. McCain is going to win the red states, Obama the blue. Its all about the swing states and the electorial vote.

and those bitter voters will vote, and a big chunk of Hillary supporters will vote for McCain or stay home

[red states rule]

no poll shows an 8 point drop. different polls have different figures. the RCP average is 3.4. On polligreport, a dozen or so polls are listed and in nearly every one, Obama leads and his lead is increasing. run away from that.

Baghdad Bob bellows again :laugh2:

[retiredman]

National polls are worthless. McCain is going to win the red states, Obama the blue. Its all about the swing states and the electorial vote.

thanks for your opinion.

[retiredman]

Baghdad Bob bellows again :laugh2:

RSR...are you really trying to suggest that when one polling firm issues the results of their poll one day and another firm issues theirs the next, that if there is a difference between the two polling firm's numbers that that difference represents a DROP in the polls? really?

[red states rule]

RSR...are you really trying to suggest that when one polling firm issues the results of their poll one day and another firm issues theirs the next, that if there is a difference between the two polling firm's numbers that that difference represents a DROP in the polls? really?

I am looking at the numbers Bobby. You can ignore them and lie about the math all you want

[retiredman]

I am looking at the numbers Bobby. You can ignore them and lie about the math all you want

you are looking at numbers from two different polls. comparing those and attempting to announce trends based upon them is really apples and oranges.

I have a hard time believing you can carry on such a weak argument with a straight face...

but then, I consider the source and it really isn't that hard to believe after all!

[red states rule]

you are looking at numbers from two different polls. comparing those and attempting to announce trends based upon them is really apples and oranges.

I have a hard time believing you can carry on such a weak argument with a straight face...

but then, I consider the source and it really isn't that hard to believe after all!

MFM picture is hanging in Obama's HQ. You must be so proud :laugh2:

[retiredman]

gratuitous insult....

[red states rule]

gratuitous insult....

Libs like you do consider the truth hate speech and insulting :laugh2:

[retiredman]

Libs like you do consider the truth hate speech and insulting

comparing me to an Iraqi baathist is insulting...and adds nothing of any intellectual substance to the "debate".

[red states rule]

comparing me to an Iraqi baathist is insulting...and adds nothing of any intellectual substance to the "debate".

I stand corrected

Bob has more credibility then you ever will