Let's Be Realistic Here

[NATO AIR]

Has anyone seen the Democratic turn-out numbers in places like Ohio, PA, AZ and NC?

Next month's Atlantic has a story about how Silicon Valley liberals helped Obama overturn the Clinton fundraising machine by combining George Bush's "Rangers" fundraising program with a revamped Dean-ish internet organization strengthened by self-sustaining field offices in more than 40 states (so far!), cell phone alerts, social networking and student associations, unions and 527's in numbers never seen before

Also how Obama has 1.5 million individual donors (Thus far!) contributing small amounts of money to his campaign that add up (240 million or so thus far).

There are so many worrying trends for the GOP in this race and beyond that it boggles the mind to consider some of these numbers. My question is, being realistic here, what can the GOP do to regroup and regain the advantage in the next ten years?

- 25 years ago, Reagan had most young people trending Republican. Now most young people trend Democratic.

- The GOP is so far behind on internet fundraising and networking that I don't see how we are going to catch up in 6 months.

- Can anyone imagine McCain or the GOP in general getting 1/2 Obama's individual donor numbers, like 1 million or so (provided Obama only adds half a million to his total thus far by November, a highly dubious assertion, it will more than likely be 3 million by November)?

- Does anyone envision some hidden turn-out group we're not getting right now? Because as it is, the normally fractured Dems will look awfully united even if some of the white vote trends towards McCain.

Consider 1.2 million people in Indiana came out in the Democratic primary last week... granted 10% of them were Republicans and we'll be ultra generous and say 90% of those Republicans were part of Operation Chaos, that's still more than a million people voting Democratic in a state Kerry got a little over 900K in 2004.

SO again, just being realistic here, how are we not screwed as a party in these elections? Combine that with the serious competition in the Senate and House seats that hold a lot more vulnerable Republicans than Democrats and I am beginning to think the furor over Obama the liberal is more like self-deluded reassurance. I think he won't be successfully painted as liberal or anti-American, especially with McCain's pastor gaffes yet to get major airplay in the media.

Granted, I'd be voting Ron Paul if he was there (and there's another 5-10% of the Republican base that will not be voting McCain in 08) or more likely for Bob Barr in November, so this shouldn't concern me but it does. How bad will our party lose in 08 and who will we have in 2012 (Romney, Jindal, Sanford) to pick up the pieces?

[red states rule]

Alot of conservatives have changed over to Dem so they vote for Hillary to keep her in the race. They will not vote for Obama

Meanwhile, Obama, Hilary, and the DNC are spending large amounts of money

The Dem party is at war within itself. They are hard feeling all around.

Obama will probably be the Dems choice, but he is a weak candidate and his inexperience and credibility are in question

McCain is sittng back watching the Dems rip each other apart, and is raising money as he enjoys the Dems uncivil war

[NATO AIR]

Alot of conservatives have changed over to Dem so they vote for Hillary to keep her in the race. They will not vote for Obama

Meanwhile, Obama, Hilary, and the DNC are spending large amounts of money

The Dem party is at war within itself. They are hard feeling all around.

Obama will probably be the Dems choice, but he is a weak candidate and his inexperience and credibility are in question

McCain is sittng back watching the Dems rip each other apart, and is raising money as he enjoys the Dems uncivil war

The polling data from Real Clear Politics estimates the Republican vote in the Dem primaries at around 10% or so in each primary We also don't know how many of those were Op Chaos vanguard or not. I'd say it was 50-60%. That's really not a lot. There were far more libs and Democrats who voted in Republican primaries and stuck us with John McCain.

Further, when did Operation Chaos start? Was it in February after Super Tuesday?

The turnout numbers for the Dems are incredible, record-breaking by far in almost every state. That's with 2-3 competing organizations, imagine how much higher they can get with 1 disciplined organization in every state.

Its at war with itself, but the GOP was at war with itself back in January and look at how quickly its come back together since then. Still, McCain is not getting 20-25 of the GOP vote, but I think that relates more to his position on immigration and Iraq and I don't believe those voters are going to return to him in November. The Dems are in a personality conflict, those tend to subside over time (they did in '80 for the GOP, in '60 for the Democrats, in '00 in for the GOP, in '80 for the Democrats (and they didn't win but they competed and lost to an extraordinary political talent, John McCain is not that).

Granted, Obama's credibility and inexperience are in question. What about McCain's though? I'm not of the mind he's a strong candidate. I see his pastors coming in the media in the next few months as well as some of his positions on the economy, Iraq and immigration coming back to haunt him.

We will see. The main thing I ask is how do we catch up for the future? The Dems are on a new model that is quite impressive and we need to get our own.

[red states rule]

The Obama capaign sent out an email blaming Operation Chaos for their loss. Operation Chaos was started becauee McCain would not take on Obama.

The main goal was to keep Hillary in the race, so the Clintons would beat up Obama. It has exceeded that goal

McCain has his issues with conservatives, and he has alot of work to do with mending those wounds. His VP choice will be a big factor

While Obama gets a pass when it come to Wright, Resko, Ayers, bitter gate, and the comments by his wife in the primaries - they will be issues in the general election

Obama wanting to jack up taxes will be another issue. $2 trillion in new taxes and about $900 billion in new spending will not play well with most voters

In a year where Dems were to take the WH without breaking a sweat, they are having a hell of a time just picking their candidate to run against the Republicans

[Classact]

My guess is that the Democrats will win the presidency and both houses of congress and the economy and world affairs will go to hell. Within days of the election gas will be at $10 a gallon and the majority of Americans will be in the street demanding their ousting. They will be thrown out so quick when reality bites the "hope" BS that your head will spin.

[red states rule]

My guess is that the Democrats will win the presidency and both houses of congress and the economy and world affairs will go to hell. Within days of the election gas will be at $10 a gallon and the majority of Americans will be in the street demanding their ousting. They will be thrown out so quick when reality bites the "hope" BS that your head will spin.

While I do not think Obama will win, if he does, the economic policies the Dems are demanding will give us another Peanut Carter economy

We will need another Ronald Reagan conservative to step forward and clean up the mess

[Classact]

While I do not think Obama will win, if he does, the economic policies the Dems are demanding will give us another Peanut Carter economy

We will need another Ronald Reagan conservative to step forward and clean up the messI don't think Obama will be the nominee, Hillary will be the nominee and win with a majority in congress, and yes America will be sorry!!!

[red states rule]

I don't think Obama will be the nominee, Hillary will be the nominee and win with a majority in congress, and yes America will be sorry!!!

What is the difference between Hillary and Obama? Besides race and gneder - they are the same

Higher taxes on workers, and business

Surrender and appeasement to terrorists

Liberal Judges that make law from the bench

More government handouts to the lazy

Kissing the ass of the enviro wackos


I think it will be Barry VS McCain, and McCain will win.

We will still have a liberal in the WH - not a liberal moonbat like we would have with Obama or Hillary

[Classact]

What is the difference between Hillary and Obama? Besides race and gneder - they are the same

Higher taxes on workers, and business

Surrender and appeasement to terrorists

Liberal Judges that make law from the bench

More government handouts to the lazy

Kissing the ass of the enviro wackos


I think it will be Barry VS McCain, and McCain will win.

We will still have a liberal in the WH - not a liberal moonbat like we would have with Obama or HillaryI agree if Obama is the nominee he will lose but I think the Democrats will find their senses and nominate Hillary. Regardless who wins things are going to be rough.

But, if a Dem wins the WH the ME will go up in flames and gas will be $10 or more within days of the swearing in.

[retiredman]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/11/us/politics/11strategy.html?_r=2&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&adxnnlx=1210518360-0h4eL3rjwlwHxUFvWusShg&oref=slogin

looks like it will be an interesting campaign!

[red states rule]

I agree if Obama is the nominee he will lose but I think the Democrats will find their senses and nominate Hillary. Regardless who wins things are going to be rough.

But, if a Dem wins the WH the ME will go up in flames and gas will be $10 or more within days of the swearing in.

No matter what libs are pushing for a fucking nanny state. More taxes, more redistribution of wealth, and more people dependent on government

It amazes me that currently the top 50% of wage earners are paying 97% of Federal income taxes - and libs say it is not enough

[retiredman]

No matter what libs are pushing for a fucking nanny state. More taxes, more redistribution of wealth, and more people dependent on government

It amazes me that currently the top 50% of wage earners are paying 97% of Federal income taxes - and libs say it is not enough

and in spite of your moaning, the numbers of democrats goes up and the number of republicans goes down. Fred Barnes had a classic piece earlier this week about how deep in shit McCain and the GOP really is.

[red states rule]

and in spite of your moaning, the numbers of democrats goes up and the number of republicans goes down. Fred Barnes had a classic piece earlier this week about how deep in shit McCain and the GOP really is.


Not moaning - pointing out what Dems are for

and how many of those "new" Dems are Operation Chaos folks? Even Barry whined how those voters cost him IN

Chances are the liberal media will not be so quick to report the numbers when they reregister to Republican

[retiredman]

Not moaning - pointing out what Dems are for

and how many of those "new" Dems are Operation Chaos folks? Even Barry whined how those voters cost him IN

Chances are the liberal media will not be so quick to report the numbers when they reregister to Republican

the democratic party rolls have been growing for years...and the republican party rolls have been declining. Go read the Barnes article. It paints a pretty gloomy picture for the GOP.

[red states rule]

the democratic party rolls have been growing for years...and the republican party rolls have been declining. Go read the Barnes article. It paints a pretty gloomy picture for the GOP.

Still ducking the facts I see. The huge recent increase is due in large part to Operation Chaos

I also see you did not comment of the fucking nanny state agenda your racist boy is calling for

[Pale Rider]

This country needs hussein to win. This country won't be satisfied until we're deep in a depression, and our country is a third world shit hole full of legal, illegal aliens, and our military couldn't take on Cuba.

People have too short of memories. They need to be refreshed. Hussein will fuck this country up bad, and then all those young people that have no idea how bad a racist, liberal, shit bag like hussein could fuck things up, will be reeducated, and dems will lose all the races for another 8 to 12 years. Then the cycle will repeat.

[red states rule]

This country needs hussein to win. This country won't be satisfied until we're deep in a depression, and our country is a third world shit hole full of legal, illegal aliens, and our military couldn't take on Cuba.

People have too short of memories. They need to be refreshed. Hussein will fuck this country up bad, and then all those young people that have no idea how bad a racist, liberal, shit bag like hussein will be reeducated, and dems will lose all the races for another 8 to 12 years. Then the cycle will repeat.

Barry wants to include illegals in his health care plan Pale. He bellowed how his plan will cover the 40 million who do not have health ins. The number includes 20 million illegals

That should be a real winner for him Pale

[Pale Rider]

Barry wants to include illegals in his health care plan Pale. He bellowed how his plan will cover the 40 million who do not have health ins. The number includes 20 million illegals

That should be a real winner for him Pale

Just think... the nasty little, lop eared, racist, bastard in your avatar dressed like a suicide bomber is going to be the next President.

Makes me lose ALL FAITH in this country.

[red states rule]

Just think... the nasty little, lop eared, racist, bastard in your avatar dressed like a suicide bomber is going to be the next President.

Makes me lose ALL FAITH in this country.

I do not think we will win Pale. It could be a repeat of 2000

Barry gets the popular vote but loses the Electoral College

The reaction from the Obama supporters will be a joy to behold

[Pale Rider]

I do not think we will win Pale. It could be a repeat of 2000

Barry gets the popular vote but loses the Electoral College

The reaction from the Obama supporters will be a joy to behold

I think he will win. mcamnesty just won't be able to get the conservative vote. He'll lose.

We're in for some rough times rsr.

[red states rule]

I think he will win. mcamnesty just won't be able to get the conservative vote. He'll lose.

We're in for some rough times rsr.

We have to agree to disagree. McCain will get enough votes from independents and conservatives to pull it out

On one on one debates Barry will not be able to defend the insane tax increases and spending

Lets see him explain how Judges are to "stand up for the little huy" and not rule on the law

Those are just a few of his shortcomings Pale

[Pale Rider]

We have to agree to disagree. McCain will get enough votes from independents and conservatives to pull it out

On one on one debates Barry will not be able to defend the insane tax increases and spending

Lets see him explain how Judges are to "stand up for the little huy" and not rule on the law

Those are just a few of his shortcomings Pale

I think you're being hopeful rsr... but I still think hussein will win. Not that I want him to.... but he'll win.

We'll have faggots destroying the holy sanctity of marriage, we'll have third trimester abortion on demand, our military will be gutted to the point Cuba could take us over, our country will be overrun by sick, uneducated, criminal aliens that want to take a chunk off America, you'll have to turn in ALL your guns, and you'll have to work until July every year just to pay your taxes.

Sounds great don't it? maggotfrommaine thinks so.

[red states rule]

I think you're being hopeful rsr... but I still think hussein will win. Not that I want him to.... but he'll win.

We'll have faggots destroying the holy sanctity of marriage, we'll have third trimester abortion on demand, our military will be gutted Cuba could take us over, our country will be overrun by sick, uneducated, criminal aliens that want to take a chunk off America, you'll have to turn in ALL your guns, and you'll have to work until July every year just to pay your taxes.

Sounds great don't it? maggotfrommaine thinks so.

On those issues you are right Pale

But in a one on one debate, lets see Barry sell the surrender and appeasemnt plan the Dems have (I know we disagree on this one as well)

Lets see him defend nearly doubling the capital gains tax, which will hit anyone with an investment account

Or taking the cap off SS which will nail anyone making over $90,000/yr (I think that is the current cap)

So his lie he will raise taxes on only thonse making over $200,00/yr will be exposed again

Or explain how billions in new taxes on oli companies will lower the price of gas
Barry is another Mondale Pale, and I can't see him winning on a tax and spend nanny state aganda

[retiredman]

Still ducking the facts I see. The huge recent increase is due in large part to Operation Chaos

I also see you did not comment of the fucking nanny state agenda your racist boy is calling for

no. operation chaos is responsible for the marginal party swapping in a few late primary states. The trend discussed by Barnes has little to do with Limbaugh's "operation". The trend has been discussed for several years now....

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_2008/other_election_2008/party_affiliation_trends_show_democratic_momentum

http://harrisdealerpoll.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=727


http://pewresearch.org/pubs/813/gen-dems

now...are you going to duck those facts?

and the "nanny state agenda" is your negative spin on the democratic party platform... the well publicized platform of the party that people are moving TO. If you are unhappy with the direction the country is moving, you can always move.:laugh2:

[red states rule]

no. operation chaos is responsible for the marginal party swapping in a few late primary states. The trend discussed by Barnes has little to do with Limbaugh's "operation". The trend has been discussed for several years now....

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_2008/other_election_2008/party_affiliation_trends_show_democratic_momentum

http://harrisdealerpoll.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=727


http://pewresearch.org/pubs/813/gen-dems

now...are you going to duck those facts?

and the "nanny state agenda" is your negative spin on the democratic party platform... the well publicized platform of the party that people are moving TO. If you are unhappy with the direction the country is moving, you can always move.:laugh2:

The liberal media has been in a tizzy over Operation Choas. Over at DNCTV, Chris Matthews and Keith Overbite are foaming at the mouth over it. The NY SLimes and Washington Compost are in a tizy over it

As far as your fucking nanny state, I know you are for it - but a majority of voters wil reject it when they see the price tag. I want to see your boy expalin why the US taxpayer needs to pay for illegals health care ins

And I thought Dems were going to CUT spending :laugh2:

[retiredman]

The liberal media has been in a tizzy over Operation Choas. Over at DNCTV, Chris Matthews and Keith Overbite are foaming at the mouth over it. The NY SLimes and Washington Compost are in a tizy over it

As far as your fucking nanny state, I know you are for it - but a majority of voters wil reject it when they see the price tag. I want to see your boy expalin why the US taxpayer needs to pay for illegals health care ins

And I thought Dems were going to CUT spending :laugh2:

the point of my links - facts that you avoid like the plague - is that the movement away from the republican party and towards the democratic party has been widespread and pervasive and has little to do with Rush's operation. Your predictions about voter reaction to the democratic platform are merely predictions. The fact that an overwhelming majority of Americans are sick of the current administration and the direction it has taken our country is yet another fact that you avoid.

[red states rule]

the point of my links - facts that you avoid like the plague - is that the movement away from the republican party and towards the democratic party has been widespread and pervasive and has little to do with Rush's operation. Your predictions about voter reaction to the democratic platform are merely predictions. The fact that an overwhelming majority of Americans are sick of the current administration and the direction it has taken our country is yet another fact that you avoid.

The fact is your boy only tosses out bumber sticker slogans and no specifics. When pressed to give specifics - like in the Philly debate - he gets the deer in the headlights look. His numbers drop

You are drunk on the Obama Kool Aid and will never try to defend his lame liberalism - like US taxpayers paying for illegals health care coverage. or his big lie how only those making over $200,000/yr will see their taxes go up

When the voters listen to your boy try and thell them why they need to - he will be another Mondale and swept into the dustbin of political history

[retiredman]

The fact is your boy only tosses out bumber sticker slogans and no specifics. When pressed to give specifics - like in the Philly debate - he gets the deer in the headlights look. His numbers drop

You are drunk on the Obama Kool Aid and will never try to defend his lame liberalism - like US taxpayers paying for illegals health care coverage. or his big lie how only those making over $200,000/yr will see their taxes go up

When the voters listen to your boy try and thell them why they need to - he will be another Mondale and swept into the dustbin of political history

again... your predictions are just that. I predict a different outcome!

and I have never seen anything from Obama saying he will include illegal aliens in his health care proposal. got a link for that?

And let me remind you that I have only come to support Obama as the alternative to Clinton. He was not my first or second or even third choice for our nomination. I am hardly drunk on his koolaid.

[red states rule]

again... your predictions are just that. I predict a different outcome!

and I have never seen anything from Obama saying he will include illegal aliens in his health care proposal. got a link for that?

And let me remind you that I have only come to support Obama as the alternative to Clinton. He was not my first or second or even third choice for our nomination. I am hardly drunk on his koolaid.

What predictions?

Your boy did stumble around when confronted with economic facts that goes against his tax and spend plans

Obama has bragged many times his "health plan" will cover all 40 million people who do not have health ins. Either he is saying he will cover illegals, or he is tossing out an inflated number for political reasons

On your boys web site it states companies must make a "meaningful" contribution to employee health care will be taxed. What the hell is meaningful?

From your boys site:
Employers that do not offer or make a meaningful contribution to the cost of quality health coverage for their employees will be required to contribute a percentage of payroll toward the costs of the national plan. Small employers that meet certain revenue thresholds will be exempt.


This is just like the Wal Mart bill Dems passed in MD,a nd was ruled unconstitutional by the Courts. It also cost MD a huge Wal Mart distribution center in Baltimore. Yes, libs tried to stick to a big corporation, and it cost them a couple of thousand jobs, huge tax revenues, and economic growth for the state

Looks like your boy wants to do to the US what libs did for MD

[actsnoblemartin]

9.5 million according the our own government are illegals, thats great too, because we can offer vacations for more mexicans to come get free gringo money

gotta love white guilt.

hate myself, hate my country, hate you


The fact is your boy only tosses out bumber sticker slogans and no specifics. When pressed to give specifics - like in the Philly debate - he gets the deer in the headlights look. His numbers drop

You are drunk on the Obama Kool Aid and will never try to defend his lame liberalism - like US taxpayers paying for illegals health care coverage. or his big lie how only those making over $200,000/yr will see their taxes go up

When the voters listen to your boy try and thell them why they need to - he will be another Mondale and swept into the dustbin of political history

[red states rule]

9.5 million according the our own government are illegals, thats great too, because we can offer vacations for more mexicans to come get free gringo money

gotta love white guilt.

hate myself, hate my country, hate you

None of the candidates will do much on illegals. Barry at least admits he wants us to pay gor their health care, or he knows he is using an inflated numbers to sell his government run health care plan

[retiredman]

What predictions?

Your boy did stumble around when confronted with economic facts that goes against his tax and spend plans

Obama has bragged many times his "health plan" will cover all 40 million people who do not have health ins. Either he is saying he will cover illegals, or he is tossing out an inflated number for political reasons



so...when you claim that Obama will cover illegal aliens under his health care proposal, you have no links for that whatsoever. is that right? that's what I thought.

and the "predictions" you made had to do with how the voters will vote in November. Those are not facts...but we both know you have a tough time discerning fact from opinion.

[actsnoblemartin]

yeah, he will just ship them back to mexico and elsewhere?

and la raza will be cool with himnot covering them

:lol:


so...when you claim that Obama will cover illegal aliens under his health care proposal, you have no links for that whatsoever. is that right? that's what I thought.

and the "predictions" you made had to do with how the voters will vote in November. Those are not facts...but we both know you have a tough time discerning fact from opinion.

[retiredman]

yeah, he will just ship them back to mexico and elsewhere?

and la raza will be cool with himnot covering them

:lol:

did he claim he would cover illegal aliens under his health care proposal or not? simple question, martin. can you answer it?

[actsnoblemartin]

I dont know.

You cant say im not honest. :laugh2:

Incase im not clear.

my personal opinion is: he would cover them

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/immigration/

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/

My understanding from a government report ive seen is that 9.5 million of the 47 million un-insured americans are illegal aliens




did he claim he would cover illegal aliens under his health care proposal or not? simple question, martin. can you answer it?

[actsnoblemartin]

http://www.freemarketproject.org/articles/2007/20070718153509.aspx

http://www.nchc.org/facts/coverage.shtml

The large majority of the uninsured (80 percent) are native or naturalized citizens.

so 20% are illegal aliens?

[red states rule]

so...when you claim that Obama will cover illegal aliens under his health care proposal, you have no links for that whatsoever. is that right? that's what I thought.

and the "predictions" you made had to do with how the voters will vote in November. Those are not facts...but we both know you have a tough time discerning fact from opinion.

I see you ignored Obama's employer contribution policy

Your boy has said he will cover the 40 million without health ins, that number does include illegals

So which is it? IS your boy using an inflated number, or will he cover illegals. If you take Barry at his word, he will cover illegals

[actsnoblemartin]

the government figures, put it at 9.5 million illegals.

does obama think, the so called 47 million americans, have no illegals, oh im so un compassionate, undocumented criminal fuck nuts :laugh2:


I see you ignored Obama's employer contribution policy

Your boy has said he will cover the 40 million without health ins, that number does include illegals

So which is it? IS your boy using an inflated number, or will he cover illegals. If you take Barry at his word, he will cover illegals

[red states rule]

the government figures, put it at 9.5 million illegals.

does obama think, the so called 47 million americans, have no illegals, oh im so un compassionate, undocumented criminal fuck nuts :laugh2:

The number Obama tosses out there is greatly inflated

It includes illegals, those folks who decide not to buy health ins, and those who are eligible for a government program but choose not to apply

Will Barry force them to buy his government ins? Will he tax them if they don't? How much of a tax increase will he put on companines who do not make a "meaningful" contribution to their employees health care plan?

[retiredman]

Your boy has said he will cover the 40 million without health ins, that number does include illegals


:link:

[retiredman]

the CDC disputes your figures:lol:

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/PRESSROOM/07newsreleases/insurance.htm

In 2006, there were 43.6 million Americans of all ages who did not have health insurance (at the time of the interview), or 14.8% of the population.

[red states rule]

:link:

Taking on MFM is like shooting fish in a barrel


Healthcare Costs for Illegals Are Staggering

Monday, April 21, 2008 10:27 AM

By: James H. Walsh Article Font Size


Politicians, urged on by radical liberals, bemoan the lack of healthcare for more and more millions of Americans.


In recent years, their guestimates have ranged from 35 million to 45.8 million uninsured. In time for the 2008 elections, they have settled on 47 million uninsured men, women, and children (equal to 16 percent of the total U.S. population).


No distinction is made among uninsured U.S. citizens, legal immigrants, and illegal aliens. While the Democratic candidates for the presidency insist that their proposed healthcare plans do not cover illegal aliens, they fail to mention the existing federal laws that do. If the federal estimate of 12 million illegal aliens residing in the United States turns out to be a gross undercount, and the actual number is more like 30 million, then the number of uninsured U.S. citizens, rather than 47 million, may be down to 15 million, many of whom are uninsured by choice.


Many opt out of health plans, because they simply do not want to pay the premiums, considering themselves young, healthy, and indestructible. Others opt out because they expect the government to take care of them, even when they engage in high-risk behavior; this group has bought into a welfare state mentality. Others, for cultural reasons, frown on healthcare and mistrust healthcare systems.

Healthcare advocates have at their finger tips endless statistics to support their contention that the nation really needs socialized medicine.


None dare question the underlying data for these escalating numbers of the uninsured or the methodology used to obtain these numbers. If illegal aliens form the largest part of the estimated 47 million uninsured, it is a fact glossed over by healthcare advocates and politicians

http://www.newsmax.com/us/healthcare_illegals/2008/04/21/89656.html

[retiredman]

Taking on MFM is like shooting fish in a barrel


Healthcare Costs for Illegals Are Staggering

Monday, April 21, 2008 10:27 AM

By: James H. Walsh Article Font Size


Politicians, urged on by radical liberals, bemoan the lack of healthcare for more and more millions of Americans.


In recent years, their guestimates have ranged from 35 million to 45.8 million uninsured. In time for the 2008 elections, they have settled on 47 million uninsured men, women, and children (equal to 16 percent of the total U.S. population).


No distinction is made among uninsured U.S. citizens, legal immigrants, and illegal aliens. While the Democratic candidates for the presidency insist that their proposed healthcare plans do not cover illegal aliens, they fail to mention the existing federal laws that do. If the federal estimate of 12 million illegal aliens residing in the United States turns out to be a gross undercount, and the actual number is more like 30 million, then the number of uninsured U.S. citizens, rather than 47 million, may be down to 15 million, many of whom are uninsured by choice.


Many opt out of health plans, because they simply do not want to pay the premiums, considering themselves young, healthy, and indestructible. Others opt out because they expect the government to take care of them, even when they engage in high-risk behavior; this group has bought into a welfare state mentality. Others, for cultural reasons, frown on healthcare and mistrust healthcare systems.

Healthcare advocates have at their finger tips endless statistics to support their contention that the nation really needs socialized medicine.


None dare question the underlying data for these escalating numbers of the uninsured or the methodology used to obtain these numbers. If illegal aliens form the largest part of the estimated 47 million uninsured, it is a fact glossed over by healthcare advocates and politicians

http://www.newsmax.com/us/healthcare_illegals/2008/04/21/89656.html

so the CDC is now defined as a "radical liberal" organization and their reports are only "guesstimates"???

LOL

what color is the sky in your world?

[PostmodernProphet]

the CDC disputes your figures:lol:

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/PRESSROOM/07newsreleases/insurance.htm

In 2006, there were 43.6 million Americans of all ages who did not have health insurance (at the time of the interview), or 14.8% of the population.

sorry, but the census bureau disputes yours.....

http://www.census.gov/prod/2007pubs/p60-233.pdf

on page 21, as of 2006 there were 46.996 million people uninsured in the US....this is broken down as 34.3 million native born, 2.38 million naturalized citizen, and 10.2 million "not a citizen"......

[red states rule]

so the CDC is now defined as a "radical liberal" organization and their reports are only "guesstimates"???

LOL

what color is the sky in your world?

So you are saying illegals are NOT included in your boys unisured number?

Nice tap dance you are doing today YOu must be aking dance lessons Barry, as well as posting his talking points

You can never bring yourself to admit the truth can you?

[red states rule]

sorry, but the census bureau disputes yours.....

http://www.census.gov/prod/2007pubs/p60-233.pdf

on page 21, as of 2006 there were 46.996 million people uninsured in the US....this is broken down as 34.3 million native born, 2.38 million naturalized citizen, and 10.2 million "not a citizen"......

No matter what the number is, Barry wants the US taxpayer to pay for their health care ins

[retiredman]

So you are saying illegals are NOT included in your boys unisured number?



That is what I am saying. what proof do you have that they are?

[red states rule]

That is what I am saying. what proof do you have that they are?

Are you really this stupid, or are you just lying for your boy?

I posted a link and PMP posted another

[retiredman]

sorry, but the census bureau disputes yours.....

http://www.census.gov/prod/2007pubs/p60-233.pdf

on page 21, as of 2006 there were 46.996 million people uninsured in the US....this is broken down as 34.3 million native born, 2.38 million naturalized citizen, and 10.2 million "not a citizen"......

"not a citizen" does not equate to illegal alien. sorry

[retiredman]

Are you really this stupid, or are you just lying for your boy?

I posted a link and PMP posted another

you posted a link to an oped piece..and PMP posted a link that did not say diddly about illegal aliens. I posted a link from the CDC.

try again, loser.:laugh2:

[red states rule]

"not a citizen" does not equate to illegal alien. sorry

OMG are you fucking desperate :laugh2:

I should have know the biggest Obama ass kisser on the board, would find a way to ingore his desire for US taxpayer funded health care for illegals

[red states rule]

you posted a link to an oped piece..and PMP posted a link that did not say diddly about illegal aliens. I posted a link from the CDC.

try again, loser.:laugh2:

Both based on numbers from the US Census Bureau - who does the counting of the population, and comes up with the uninsured number

[retiredman]

Both based on numbers from the US Census Bureau - who does the counting of the population, and comes up with the uninsured number

again..."not a citizen" does not equate to "illegal alien"

keep trying.:laugh2:

[red states rule]

again..."not a citizen" does not equate to "illegal alien"

keep trying.:laugh2:

You ares hwoing once again what a liberal hack you are. You will never disagree with your boy, or your party regardless of the facts presented

You are still ignoring Barry's desire for the nationwide Wal Mart law

[retiredman]

You ares hwoing once again what a liberal hack you are. You will never disagree with your boy, or your party regardless of the facts presented

You are still ignoring Barry's desire for the nationwide Wal Mart law

are you suggesting that when the census bureau says "not a citizen" that they mean "illegal alien"?

yes or no

[glockmail]

are you suggesting that when the census bureau says "not a citizen" that they mean "illegal alien"?

yes or no What else would they be?

[red states rule]

What else would they be?

With MFM they are a new untapped voting block. So what if they are US citizens? He will have them register to vote when they get a drivers license and then have them sign up for Obama care

[retiredman]

What else would they be?

so you think that every non-citizen in America is here illegally?

[PostmodernProphet]

are you suggesting that when the census bureau says "not a citizen" that they mean "illegal alien"?


whether they are illegal or not, why should Americans be providing health insurance for people who aren't citizens......can you tell me of any other country that does?......do the British cover the Norwegians?....does Canada cover Americans?.......

[Roomy]

whether they are illegal or not, why should Americans be providing health insurance for people who aren't citizens......can you tell me of any other country that does?......

The UK provides free health care.

[glockmail]

so you think that every non-citizen in America is here illegally? Again, what else would they be?

[retiredman]

Again, what else would they be?

legal aliens, of course. what a ridiculous question.

[retiredman]

whether they are illegal or not, why should Americans be providing health insurance for people who aren't citizens......can you tell me of any other country that does?......do the British cover the Norwegians?....does Canada cover Americans?.......

the point is: RSR claimed that Obama wants to cover ILLEGAL aliens under his health program. Your link does diddly toward supporting his allegation.

what else ya got?

[red states rule]

legal aliens, of course. what a ridiculous question.

and they are inculded in the uninsured number, abd Obama wants US taxpayers to cover them


The Heritage Foundation Responds to Uninsured Numbers in New U.S. Census Bureau Report

WASHINGTON, AUG. 28, 2007 — Look closely behind the Census Bureau numbers of the uninsured, now estimated at 47 million, or 15.8 percent of the population. How one diagnoses the problem will largely determine how one prescribes the remedy. For those in Congress who want a government health care monopoly, the answer is simple: progressively expand government control over the entire health care sector of the economy, and push persons out of private health coverage, beginning with a robust expansion of the State Childrens' Health Insurance Program(SCHIP). For Americans who want to take personal control over their health care decisions, a more sophisticated policy is required. Meanwhile, in reading the Census Bureau numbers, policymakers should bear three things in mind:

The Census Bureau data is misleading. The Census Bureau's Current Population Survey (CPS) is a misleading measure of those who lack health insurance in America and an imprecise tool for analyzing the dimensions of the problem. Analysis of data from earlier Census Bureau and other government reports shows that roughly 7 million are illegal immigrants; roughly 9 million are persons on Medicaid; 3.5 million are persons already eligible for government health programs; and approximately 20 million have, or live, in families with incomes greater than twice the federal poverty level, or $41,300 for a family of four.

Most of the uninsured are in and out of health coverage. The professional literature also shows that, overwhelmingly, the vast majority of the uninsured are persons who are in and out of coverage, largely as a result of job changes. Only a small number of the uninsured are chronically uninsured. For most of the uninsured, the problem is fixable if policymakers simply take steps to make health insurance portable, so the insurance policy sticks to the person, not the job.

http://www.heritage.org/Press/NewsReleases/nr082807a.cfm

[red states rule]

the point is: RSR claimed that Obama wants to cover ILLEGAL aliens under his health program. Your link does diddly toward supporting his allegation.

what else ya got?

You do have a problem with what your boy has said. He has said his plan would cover all of the uninsured - that includes illegals

[retiredman]

You do have a problem with what your boy has said. He has said his plan would cover all of the uninsured - that includes illegals


no. it doesn't and you have yet to show where it does. He said he would cover most all uninsured AMERICANS . Illegal aliens are not americans.

[red states rule]

no. it doesn't and you have yet to show where it does. He said he would cover most all uninsured AMERICANS . Illegal aliens are not americans.

I have sen your boy on TV bragging how he would cover the 40 million uninsured

But don't let what he has said get in the way of your defense of him

[glockmail]

legal aliens, of course. what a ridiculous question.


….. 10.2 million "not a citizen"......


….. Analysis of data from earlier Census Bureau and other government reports shows that roughly 7 million are illegal…

Not all that ridiculous when 70% are illegal. :slap:

[red states rule]

Not all that ridiculous when 70% are illegal. :slap:

Libs like Barry and MFM love to be generous with other peoples money

[retiredman]

I have sen your boy on TV bragging how he would cover the 40 million uninsured

But don't let what he has said get in the way of your defense of him

it does not include illegal aliens. there are 40 million uninsured americans.

[glockmail]

no. it doesn't and you have yet to show where it does. He said he would cover most all uninsured AMERICANS . Illegal aliens are not americans.



Easy enrollment. The new public plan will be simple to enroll in and provide ready access to coverage. ...
Mandatory Coverage of Children: Obama will require that all children have health care coverage..... http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/#coverage-for-all

I don't see how illegals will be denied coverage under this plan.

[red states rule]

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/#coverage-for-all

I don't see how illegals will be denied coverage under this plan.

The point is Glock - they won't

First drivers licenses, health ins, then voting rights. That is the Dems plan for illegals

[actsnoblemartin]

glock, barrack wont ask kids if their parents or them are illegal, so if they dont see it, it doesnt exist :laugh2:

[glockmail]

The point is Glock - they won't

First drivers licenses, health ins, then voting rights. That is the Dems plan for illegals


glock, barrack wont ask kids if their parents or them are illegal, so if they dont see it, it doesnt exist :laugh2:
I'd like to see buggeredbyhisoldmanlivinginshame explain that.

[PostmodernProphet]

The UK provides free health care.

sweet, I think I will get a plane ticket and go for some elective surgery....

[PostmodernProphet]

the point is: RSR claimed that Obama wants to cover ILLEGAL aliens under his health program. Your link does diddly toward supporting his allegation.

what else ya got?

I could care less if I have....now, please answer the question, if Obama is going to provide health care for 40 million, and there are only 33 million American citizens uninsured, who does he intend to provide health care to?......

[retiredman]

I could care less if I have....now, please answer the question, if Obama is going to provide health care for 40 million, and there are only 33 million American citizens uninsured, who does he intend to provide health care to?......

two "if's" I do not accept as fact. I am under the impression that Obama's health plan does not even cover ALL Americans, let alone any non-Americans.

[retiredman]

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/#coverage-for-all

I don't see how illegals will be denied coverage under this plan.

I don't see where they will be offered coverage under this plan.

[glockmail]

two "if's" I do not accept as fact. I am under the impression that Obama's health plan does not even cover ALL Americans, let alone any non-Americans.
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/#coverage-for-all

How will he deny coverage to illegals and their children under this plan?

[retiredman]

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/#coverage-for-all

How will he deny coverage to illegals and their children under this plan?

where does that plan state it will cover illegals?

[red states rule]

where does that plan state it will cover illegals?

Not only do you ignore facts, you also ignore what your own boy says

[retiredman]

Not only do you ignore facts, you also ignore what your own boy says

a link to something where Obama said he would cover illegal aliens with his healthcare proposal would be something you should be producing about now!:link:

[red states rule]

a link to something where Obama said he would cover illegal aliens with his healthcare proposal would be something you should be producing about now!:link:

Your boy has bellowed how he will cover all 40 million uninsured. Once again I ask (and once again you will run away from answering) is he using an inflated number, or is he including illiegals?

There is no third choice

[retiredman]

Your boy has bellowed how he will cover all 40 million uninsured. Once again I ask (and once again you will run away from answering) is he using an inflated number, or is he including illiegals?

There is no third choice

why? because you say so?

I think that 40 million is a reasonable estimate for uninsured Americans.

He has never said he would insure illegals and you can't escape that fact...if you could, you'd be showing that link.

[red states rule]

why? because you say so?

I think that 40 million is a reasonable estimate for uninsured Americans.

He has never said he would insure illegals and you can't escape that fact...if you could, you'd be showing that link.

and the number includes illegals

MNow libs want the US taxpayer to pay for their health care. Is that why you idiots are so hot to jack up our taces?

[retiredman]

and the number includes illegals

MNow libs want the US taxpayer to pay for their health care. Is that why you idiots are so hot to jack up our taces?

no. it does not. now find a quote where Obama says he'll cover illegal aliens or shut the fuck up.

[red states rule]

no. it does not. now find a quote where Obama says he'll cover illegal aliens or shut the fuck up.

Ahm getting testy over the fact your boy stepped in it again? He says he will cover the unincured, and illlegals are in the number he usues

Like it or not that is a fact. So keep lying for your boy, it is all you can do

[retiredman]

Ahm getting testy over the fact your boy stepped in it again? He says he will cover the unincured, and illlegals are in the number he usues

Like it or not that is a fact. So keep lying for your boy, it is all you can do

not testy at all. Illegals are not in that number. you keep making a claim and refusing to back it up. you say that Obama has said that he will include illegal aliens in his healthcare program. provide the quote.

I'll wait.

[red states rule]

not testy at all. you keep making a claim and refusing to back it up. you say that Obama has said that he will include illegal aliens in his healthcare program. provide the quote.

I'll wait.

You are a moron, Now you do not beleive what your boy says. Thats OK, alot of voters have the same reacation to him

[retiredman]

You are a moron, Now you do not beleive what your boy says. Thats OK, alot of voters have the same reacation to him

so...you can't back up your claim that Obama wants to cover illegal aliens?

why didn't you just say so?

[retiredman]

so...you can't back up your claim that Obama wants to cover illegal aliens?

why didn't you just say so?

maybe you want to retract it?

[red states rule]

so...you can't back up your claim that Obama wants to cover illegal aliens?

why didn't you just say so?

You will ignore what your boy (and his racist and America hating inner circle) says, and keep spreading the lies how he never says what he said

[retiredman]

You will ignore what your boy (and his racist and America hating inner circle) says, and keep spreading the lies how he never says what he said

show me where he said he wanted to cover illegal aliens.

you are the one who made the claim....just back it up.

if you can't, it is pretty clear who is the one spreading lies, isn't it?

[red states rule]

show me where he said he wanted to cover illegal aliens.

you are the one who made the claim....just back it up.

if you can't, it is pretty clear who is the one spreading lies, isn't it?

You are one dense asshole. Your boy has said over and over he will cover the 40 million with ins - illegals are in that number

You are so drunk of both Scotch and Obama Kool Aid you can't admit the truth about your biy

[actsnoblemartin]

calling him an asshole is a slur against assholes.


You are one dense asshole. Your boy has said over and over he will cover the 40 million with ins - illegals are in that number

You are so drunk of both Scotch and Obama Kool Aid you can't admit the truth about your biy

[red states rule]

calling him an asshole is a slur against assholes.

Well if I slured Obama, well, I am not sorry :laugh2:

[actsnoblemartin]

what part of all americans dont you get.

you think he is gonna go in every home, school, clinic and hospital and say show me your green card.

my god, your not only an asshole, youre an idiot


show me where he said he wanted to cover illegal aliens.

you are the one who made the claim....just back it up.

if you can't, it is pretty clear who is the one spreading lies, isn't it?

[retiredman]

what part of all americans dont you get.

you think he is gonna go in every home, school, clinic and hospital and say show me your green card.

my god, your not only an asshole, youre an idiot

what part of "Americans" don't YOU get?

illegal aliens are not Americans.

moron.

[red states rule]

what part of all americans dont you get.

you think he is gonna go in every home, school, clinic and hospital and say show me your green card.

my god, your not only an asshole, youre an idiot

He is a typical bitter liberal Obama supporter :laugh2:

[actsnoblemartin]

what part of reading and comprehension dont you understand.

If you love on obama anymore youll be kissing his balls :laugh2:


what part of "Americans" don't YOU get?

illegal aliens are not Americans.

moron.

[actsnoblemartin]

He is a typical bitter liberal Obama supporter :laugh2:

guess which one is mfm

:suck:

[retiredman]

what part of reading and comprehension dont you understand.

If you love on obama anymore youll be kissing his balls :laugh2:

illegal aliens are not americans, martin. that is a fact.

[red states rule]

illegal aliens are not americans, martin. that is a fact.

but Barry boy wants the US taxpayer to fund their health care anyway

[actsnoblemartin]

9.5 million of the 47 million uninsured in america are illegal aliens.

do you understand?

ill say it slower :poke:, nine point five million illegal aliens are uninsured according to the government and they are part of the 47 million uninsured.

its like youre trying to argue who's on first, when im talking about second


illegal aliens are not americans, martin. that is a fact.

a perfect example of maineman's thinking

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/sShMA85pv8M&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/sShMA85pv8M&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

[retiredman]

but Barry boy wants the US taxpayer to fund their health care anyway

you make that claim, but somehow can't quite seem to find a quote from him that says that.

:lol:

but hey.... you must be excited about Bob Barr, eh? someone for you muscular conservatives to vote for!

[retiredman]

9.5 million of the 47 million uninsured in america are illegal aliens.

do you understand?

ill say it slower :poke:, nine point five million illegal aliens are uninsured according to the government and they are part of the 47 million uninsured.

its like youre trying to argue who's on first, when im talking about second

:link:

and where did Obama say he wanted to insure 47 million?

[red states rule]

9.5 million of the 47 million uninsured in america are illegal aliens.

do you understand?

ill say it slower :poke:, nine point five million illegal aliens are uninsured according to the government and they are part of the 47 million uninsured.

its like youre trying to argue who's on first, when im talking about second

MFM lying for Barry reminds of this Martin

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[actsnoblemartin]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2008-01-21-immigrant-healthcare_N.htm

One thing is clear: Undocumented immigrants are driving up the number of people without health insurance. The Pew Hispanic Center estimates that 59% of the nation's illegal immigrants are uninsured, compared with 25% of legal immigrants and 14% of U.S. citizens. Illegal immigrants represent about 15% of the nation's 47 million uninsured people — and about 30% of the increase since 1980.


:link:

and where did Obama say he wanted to insure 47 million?

[actsnoblemartin]

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2004/12/06/news/top_stories/19_56_5812_5_04.txt

California's nearly 3 million illegal immigrants cost taxpayers nearly $9 billion each year, according to a new report released last week by the Federation for American Immigration Reform, a Washington, D.C.-based group that promotes stricter immigration policies.

Educating the children of illegal immigrants is the largest cost, estimated at $7.7 billion each year, according to the report. Medical care for illegal immigrants and incarceration of those who have committed crimes are the next two largest expenses measured in the study, the author said.

[glockmail]

where does that plan state it will cover illegals? Third and final time: How will he deny coverage to illegals and their children under this plan?

[retiredman]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2008-01-21-immigrant-healthcare_N.htm

One thing is clear: Undocumented immigrants are driving up the number of people without health insurance. The Pew Hispanic Center estimates that 59% of the nation's illegal immigrants are uninsured, compared with 25% of legal immigrants and 14% of U.S. citizens. Illegal immigrants represent about 15% of the nation's 47 million uninsured people — and about 30% of the increase since 1980.


and where did Obama say he wanted to insure 47 million?

and since when is 15% of 47M = 9.5M

[Yurt]

In response to a question on whether he would support giving driver's licenses to undocumented workers, Mr. Obama started off by saying, "When I was a state senator in Illinois, I voted to require that illegal aliens get trained, get a license, get insurance to protect public safety. That was my intention."

http://www2.nysun.com/national/obama-falters-over-illegal-immigrants/

[actsnoblemartin]

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20070909/news_lz1e9blog.html

Based on Census Bureau statistics, 22 percent of those without health insurance are noncitizens.

[red states rule]

and where did Obama say he wanted to insure 47 million?

Still stuck on stupid and repeat - both at the same time

[glockmail]

http://www2.nysun.com/national/obama-falters-over-illegal-immigrants/
He's done it in the past, what makes anyone think he won't do it again, especially when his own website doesn't address the issue?

[retiredman]

Still stuck on stupid and repeat - both at the same time

you can't come up with a quote yet?

and YOU talk about being stuck on stupid?:laugh2:

[actsnoblemartin]

I dont know, his website :coffee:

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/


and where did Obama say he wanted to insure 47 million?

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20070909/news_lz1e9blog.html

Based on Census Bureau statistics, 22 percent of those without health insurance are noncitizens.

[retiredman]

http://www2.nysun.com/national/obama-falters-over-illegal-immigrants/

car insurance. :laugh2:

[retiredman]

I dont know, his website :coffee:

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/



http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20070909/news_lz1e9blog.html

Based on Census Bureau statistics, 22 percent of those without health insurance are noncitizens.


martin:

does non-citizen equal illegal alien?

yes or no?

[actsnoblemartin]

speaking of illegals how does barracks plan look?

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/immigration/

[Yurt]

car insurance. :laugh2:

all his support for illegals leads to only one conclusion --> he will give health insurance to them as well

[actsnoblemartin]

yes it does.

Its just a code word, for illegal alien.


martin:

does non-citizen equal illegal alien?

yes or no?

[retiredman]

yes it does.

Its just a code word, for illegal alien.

so non-citizens in america are illegal aliens?

[retiredman]

all his support for illegals leads to only one conclusion --> he will give health insurance to them as well


I disagree. car insurance to help protect public safety does not lead to that sole conclusion.

[red states rule]

I disagree. car insurance to help protect public safety does not lead to that sole conclusion.

They are illegals - that seems to be lost on you and your boy Obama

[actsnoblemartin]

Yes, like how some say, undocument workers, or migrants :laugh2:

non citizens a.k.a. illegals are part of that 47 million, obama will give them health insurance.

seriously, am i talking to a :bang3: with you?




so non-citizens in america are illegal aliens?

[Kathianne]

I disagree. car insurance to help protect public safety does not lead to that sole conclusion.

I really don't issuing licenses and insurance for those that cannot 'prove' they belong here solves diddly. Anyone that wishes to have those services should be here legally.

[PostmodernProphet]

I think we can summarize the thread so far as follows: all of us, including MFM, think it would be insane to provide health insurance to illegal aliens....MFM believes that Obama has no intention to provide health insurance for illegal aliens, and should Obama, in the future, propose providing health insurance for illegal aliens, he would not vote for him.......do I have it covered so far, MFM?.....(though for some reason he wants to give them free college tuition - see next thread)......

[glockmail]

I disagree. car insurance to help protect public safety does not lead to that sole conclusion. You are unable to answer my question proving that you have no idea what you are talking about.

[actsnoblemartin]

no, they are misplaced foreigners :laugh2:

you can lead the horse to water, but if he's an ass let him drown


They are illegals - that seems to be lost on you and your boy Obama

[red states rule]

You are unable to answer my question proving that you have no idea what you are talking about.

That should not come as a surprise to you Glock. In fact you should be used to it by now

[actsnoblemartin]

you just figured this out :laugh2:


You are unable to answer my question proving that you have no idea what you are talking about.

[actsnoblemartin]

its about as common as breathing :coffee:


That should not come as a surprise to you Glock. In fact you should be used to it by now

[red states rule]

no, they are misplaced foreigners :laugh2:

you can lead the horse to water, but if he's an ass let him drown

Or in MFM's case, you can lead a jackass to the truth, but you can't make him accept it

[retiredman]

Yes, like how some say, undocument workers, or migrants :laugh2:

non citizens a.k.a. illegals are part of that 47 million, obama will give them health insurance.

seriously, am i talking to a :bang3: with you?

what do you call people with green cards, martin?

are they citizens or non-citizens?

[retiredman]

You are unable to answer my question proving that you have no idea what you are talking about.


I was responding to yurt...what question did you ask? I must have missed it

[actsnoblemartin]

ok im lost :poke:

obama wants to cover 47 million americans without health insurance, but even if only 100,000 were illegals, THEIR STILL ILLEGALS.

how is that not clear? :poke:

obama Wants to cover illegals

obama IS going to cover illegals

two people cant see this picture, a blind man and mfm


I think we can summarize the thread so far as follows: all of us, including MFM, think it would be insane to provide health insurance to illegal aliens....MFM believes that Obama has no intention to provide health insurance for illegal aliens, and should Obama, in the future, propose providing health insurance for illegal aliens, he would not vote for him.......do I have it covered so far, MFM?.....(though for some reason he wants to give them free college tuition - see next thread)......

[actsnoblemartin]

dont get cute with me.

People with green cards, are NOT illegals.

non citizens is a sly code word, like farm workers, undocumented immigrants

non citizen, that is so ambigous and means nothing

thats like trying to set up youre best male friend with a woman who likes people

what the fuck does like people mean, is she gay or straight.

my god, we dont have the balls to call a spade a spade


what do you call people with green cards, martin?

are they citizens or non-citizens?

[red states rule]

ok im lost :poke:

obama wants to cover 47 million americans without health insurance, but even if only 100,000 were illegals, THEIR STILL ILLEGALS.

how is that not clear? :poke:

obama Wants to cover illegals

obama IS going to cover illegals

two people cant see this picture, a blind man and mfm

Hell, Barry now wants College aid for illegals

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=14284

[retiredman]

I think we can summarize the thread so far as follows: all of us, including MFM, think it would be insane to provide health insurance to illegal aliens....MFM believes that Obama has no intention to provide health insurance for illegal aliens, and should Obama, in the future, propose providing health insurance for illegal aliens, he would not vote for him.......do I have it covered so far, MFM?.....(though for some reason he wants to give them free college tuition - see next thread)......

I am not now, nor have I ever been a single issue voter. I have never agreed with every policy position of the presidential candidate that I voted for. I do not believe that Obama has any intention of providing health insurance coverage to illegal aliens. If it turned out that he did, that issue alone would certainly not be enough to lose my vote. Have I answered you question, PMP?

[Kathianne]

I am not now, nor have I ever been a single issue voter. I have never agreed with every policy position of the presidential candidate that I voted for. I do not believe that Obama has any intention of providing health insurance coverage to illegal aliens. If it turned out that he did, that issue alone would certainly not be enough to lose my vote. Have I answered you question, PMP?

Question for you, is there anything Obama could do or say that would stop you from voting for him, if he were the Democratic nominee?

[actsnoblemartin]

well, i severely doubt la raza is gonna sit back and say, oh sure u dont have to cover illegals.

they wont put pressure on the next president for universal healthcare and amnesty, oh no.


I am not now, nor have I ever been a single issue voter. I have never agreed with every policy position of the presidential candidate that I voted for. I do not believe that Obama has any intention of providing health insurance coverage to illegal aliens. If it turned out that he did, that issue alone would certainly not be enough to lose my vote. Have I answered you question, PMP?

[red states rule]

I am not now, nor have I ever been a single issue voter. I have never agreed with every policy position of the presidential candidate that I voted for. I do not believe that Obama has any intention of providing health insurance coverage to illegal aliens. If it turned out that he did, that issue alone would certainly not be enough to lose my vote. Have I answered you question, PMP?

Yep you have. You are a liberal hack and it does not matter to you what your boy stands for, what he says, who he associates with, or the polices he wants passed into law - he has your vote

[actsnoblemartin]

the only way mfm doesnt vote for him, is if obama tells him not too :laugh2:


Yep you have. You are a liberal hack and it does not matter to you what your boy stands for, what he says, who he associates with, or the polices he wants passed into law - he has your vote

[glockmail]

I was responding to yurt...what question did you ask? I must have missed it

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=243408&postcount=110

[Kathianne]

Question for you, is there anything Obama could do or say that would stop you from voting for him, if he were the Democratic nominee?

bump.

[actsnoblemartin]

double bump

[glockmail]

:popcorn:

[PostmodernProphet]

If it turned out that he did, that issue alone would certainly not be enough to lose my vote. Have I answered you question, PMP?

just one more....how many insane things would he have to do before he DID lose your vote.....

[retiredman]

just one more....how many insane things would he have to do before he DID lose your vote.....

insane? I'll disregard the hyperbolic rhetoric and say that he would have to turn his back on the democratic platform for me to turn my back on him.

[Kathianne]

insane? I'll disregard the hyperbolic rhetoric and say that he would have to turn his back on the democratic platform for me to turn my back on him.

Let's try English, not platforms. What would he have to do for you to say, 'no way.'

[Dilloduck]

Yep you have. You are a liberal hack and it does not matter to you what your boy stands for, what he says, who he associates with, or the polices he wants passed into law - he has your vote

and you are his republican counterpart

[retiredman]

Question for you, is there anything Obama could do or say that would stop you from voting for him, if he were the Democratic nominee?


as previously stated, he would need to step off of the democratic platform.

really.

Our two political parties STAND for things. If you believe in the things that the republican party stands for, you are a republican and want the nominee of your party elected. I am a democrat. I believe in the things that the democratic party stands for. I want the nominee of my party to be elected.

The presidency isn't some silly popularity contest. We aren't elected the fucking homecoming king here. Politics in America is a team sport and it is about believing in your team and what they hope to accomplish.

[Dilloduck]

as previously stated, he would need to step off of the democratic platform.

really.

Our two political parties STAND for things. If you believe in the things that the republican party stands for, you are a republican and want the nominee of your party elected. I am a democrat. I believe in the things that the democratic party stands for. I want the nominee of my party to be elected.

The presidency isn't some silly popularity contest. We aren't elected the fucking homecoming king here. Politics in America is a team sport and it is about believing in your team and what they hope to accomplish.

and what is sad is that we seem to believe that we are stuck with two teams. At least that's what the two teams try to make us think.

[gabosaurus]

How can you expect realism in a forum full of conservative Republicans?

[retiredman]

Let's try English, not platforms. What would he have to do for you to say, 'no way.'
he would have to disavow the principles of the democratic party. He would have to say, let's stay in Iraq for 100 years. He would have to say, I don't give a shit about poor people or sick people, He would have to say, survival of the fittest is the law he wanted America to live by. He would have to say that a woman's place was in the home, barefoot and pregnant. He would have to say that he thought global warming was a joke and that we ought to build cars that burned MORE gas not less. et cetera et cetera et cetera.

[Kathianne]

he would have to disavow the principles of the democratic party. He would have to say, let's stay in Iraq for 100 years. He would have to say, I don't give a shit about poor people or sick people, He would have to say, survival of the fittest is the law he wanted America to live by. He would have to say that a woman's place was in the home, barefoot and pregnant. He would have to say that he thought global warming was a joke and that we ought to build cars that burned MORE gas not less. et cetera et cetera et cetera.

Without that, he can do no wrong. Even if lying, cheating, etc., are part and parcel of his campaign. Thank you for your honesty. I'm sure he'll live down to your standards.

[retiredman]

and what is sad is that we seem to believe that we are stuck with two teams. At least that's what the two teams try to make us think.

we are stuck with two teams.... just not necessarily the same two teams forever. The Whigs were a presence for most of the first half of the 19th century. If either the democrats or the republicans fails to support the beliefs of a significant number of Americans, some other party will rise up and take their place.

[Dilloduck]

How can you expect realism in a forum full of conservative Republicans?

Why do you insist on being wrong ?

[retiredman]

Without that, he can do no wrong. Even if lying, cheating, etc., are part and parcel of his campaign. Thank you for your honesty. I'm sure he'll live down to your standards.

as I am sure McCain will live down to yours.

[Dilloduck]

we are stuck with two teams.... just not necessarily the same two teams forever. The Whigs were a presence for most of the first half of the 19th century. If either the democrats or the republicans fails to support the beliefs of a significant number of Americans, some other party will rise up and take their place.

Bullshit---nothing constrains us to being on one of two teams.

[Silver]

Well theres no chance he will turn his back on the Dem. platform...
He is even further left than the Dem platform in general and that only works in his favor and to the radicals that support the Dems.
Most Dems I know are unaware of a Dem platform....

They support the Dems only in the most general terms....
Like "its the party of the working man"
"Its the party of the underdog"
"Its the party of the union movement"
"They only tax the rich"
"They will tax the evil corporations"

They make these innane statements and cling to them as proof positive that the Dems are somehow on their side...
You can't reason with them. No matter what job they do, they believe 'they' are the working man and anyone in a position above them or making more money is the rich guy...

To claim the majority of the Dems are politically ignorant and unaware of the goals of the left is giving them more credit than they deserve in reality, they are in general even more ignorant .

Their collective hate for Bush along with gov. welfare, (taking many forms,) more than makes up for their ignorance, and keeps them in line.

[retiredman]

Bullshit---nothing constrains us to being on one of two teams.

of course not. but the political realities do constrain you from being an effective political force outside of those two teams.

go ahead and vote Green this time and see how much your vote matters.

[Kathianne]

we are stuck with two teams.... just not necessarily the same two teams forever. The Whigs were a presence for most of the first half of the 19th century. If either the democrats or the republicans fails to support the beliefs of a significant number of Americans, some other party will rise up and take their place.

You're correct, they BOTH Suck.

[retiredman]

You're correct, they BOTH Suck.

go green, then...or libertarian....take your pick. take a stand. be irrelevant, or be involved and get into the mudpit and try to create some degree of change. your choice.

[red states rule]

and you are his republican counterpart

You do suffer from selective memory loss. I have spoken out againt Pres Bush and Republicans on many issues

Case in point where we were debating illegals. You wanted to blame only business and American consumers

I was blaming the illegals and both parties for not doing their job and locking down the borders

Does that help refresh your poor memory?

[red states rule]

he would have to disavow the principles of the democratic party. He would have to say, let's stay in Iraq for 100 years. He would have to say, I don't give a shit about poor people or sick people, He would have to say, survival of the fittest is the law he wanted America to live by. He would have to say that a woman's place was in the home, barefoot and pregnant. He would have to say that he thought global warming was a joke and that we ought to build cars that burned MORE gas not less. et cetera et cetera et cetera.

Dem platform as you stated

surrendner to terrorists

continue with failed social program handouts that have not worked in 40 years

do nothing to stop the slaughter of the unborn

waste more money on global warming (or is it global cooling, or climate change?)

have all us drive around in golf carts with bucket seats - while the libs keep their SUV's and limos

Yep, that sounds like the Dem platform - pure bullshit liberalism

Oh, and lets not forget free goodies to illegals

[Dilloduck]

You do suffer from selective memory loss. I have spoken out againt Pres Bush and Republicans on many issues

Case in point where we were debating illegals. You wanted to blame only business and American consumers

I was blaming the illegals and both parties for not doing their job and locking down the borders

Does that help refresh your poor memory?

no--show me, Mr all i can do is bash liberals

[red states rule]

no--show me, Mr all i can do is bash liberals

Here ya go hotshot

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=13470

[Dilloduck]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=228482&postcount=18

right back at ya

[red states rule]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=228482&postcount=18

right back at ya

The point is, I called Republcians on their failures - something you screamed I have not done

MFM is a hack who will never say anyhting bad about his side - I have done so, and will do so, when they deserve it

[Dilloduck]

The point is, I called Republcians on their failures - something you screamed I have not done

MFM is a hack who will never say anyhting bad about his side - I have done so, and will do so, when they deserve it

Actually about 99% of what you post can be summed up by saying "liberals are evil". Is that all you got?

[red states rule]

Actually about 99% of what you post can be summed up by saying "liberals are evil". Is that all you got?

I never said libs are evil. Again selective memory is showing again

I am a Ronald Reagan conservatiove. I do not hate liberals. I only want them defeated politically

Libs on the other hand, are the ones who spread hate. I will call libs on their hate, their failed policies, their defeatest attitude toward terrorism, and their never ending hypocrisy

To you, that means I am a political hack, I call it being honest

You do like to put words in other peoples mouth, and post things that never happened. You should work on those issues

[glockmail]

....He would have to say, I don't give a shit about poor people or sick people, He would have to say, survival of the fittest is the law he wanted America to live by. He would have to say that a woman's place was in the home, barefoot and pregnant. He would have to say that he thought global warming was a joke and that we ought to build cars that burned MORE gas not less. et cetera et cetera et cetera. Is this what you are told is the GOP platform?

Still no answer to my other question, by the way.

[retiredman]

Is this what you are told is the GOP platform?

Still no answer to my other question, by the way.

the question, nor my reply had nothing to do with the GOP platform.

I have no idea what question YOU are talking about. Care to restate it?

[glockmail]

I have no idea what question YOU are talking about. Care to restate it?

Attempt #5.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=243408&postcount=110

[red states rule]

Attempt #5.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=243408&postcount=110

You are a paiient man Glock. You must be dizzy watching him do the Liberal 2 Step

[retiredman]

Attempt #5.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=243408&postcount=110


because they are not covered. period. Obama's plan provides health insurance for americans. Please show me otherwise.

[red states rule]

because they are not covered. period. Obama's plan provides health insurance for americans. Please show me otherwise.

Several people have, and you still lie how illeagls wil not be covered by your boy's plan

[retiredman]

Several people have, and you still lie how illeagls wil not be covered by your boy's plan


no. nobody has. and you still cannot show me otherwise. anytime you have a link to any quote from Obama showing his intention to cover illegal aliens under his health plan, please bring it forward. I'll wait.

YOu are the one saying that he has said this. You should have the quote at your fingertips.

[red states rule]

no. nobody has. and you still cannot show me otherwise. anytime you have a link to any quote from Obama showing his intention to cover illegal aliens under his health plan, please bring it forward. I'll wait.

YOu are the one saying that he has said this. You should have the quote at your fingertips.

So when be promises to cover the 40 million who do not have health ins - when illegals are included in that number (As well as folks who choose not to take out ins) he is lying?

Or is he tossing out an inflated number?

[retiredman]

So when be promises to cover the 40 million who do not have health ins - when illegals are included in that number (As well as folks who choose not to take out ins) he is lying?

Or is he tossing out an inflated number?

you have yet to show me where illegals are included in the 40M figure.

non-citizen does not equal illegal alien.

sorry.

[glockmail]

because they are not covered. period. Obama's plan provides health insurance for americans. Please show me otherwise.
"Because" ain't an answer. Asking me to prove otherwise is not an answer.

This is attempt #6: How will he deny coverage to illegals and their children under this plan?

I'm not looking for a dissertation, but many voters need to know at least some minor details on how this will be done in order to responsibly assess this candidate. Especially in light of his campaign statements that the process to sign up will be easy.

[retiredman]

"Because" ain't an answer. Asking me to prove otherwise is not an answer.

This is attempt #6: How will he deny coverage to illegals and their children under this plan?

I'm not looking for a dissertation, but many voters need to know at least some minor details on how this will be done in order to responsibly assess this candidate. Especially in light of his campaign statements that the process to sign up will be easy.


yes. it is an answer. illegal aliens are not covered. neither are extraterrestrials. neither are pets. neither are the citizens of Sydney Australia. YOU posted his plan. Show me where he states that he will cover illegal aliens. He doesn't.

[red states rule]

you have yet to show me where illegals are included in the 40M figure.

non-citizen does not equal illegal alien.

sorry.

So the Census Bureau does not know their own numbers, and are not good enough for you?

Once again you lie to cover for your boy

[retiredman]

So the Census Bureau does not know their own numbers, and are not good enough for you?

Once again you lie to cover for your boy

the census bureau speaks about non-citizens..... those are different from illegal aliens, aren't they.

[glockmail]

yes. it is an answer. illegal aliens are not covered. neither are extraterrestrials. neither are pets. neither are the citizens of Sydney Australia. YOU posted his plan. Show me where he states that he will cover illegal aliens. He doesn't. Your examples are absurd. My question is completely legitimate and being asked by many concerned voters. The fact that you can't answer it, and neither will your boy, brings up a big red flag. I'm not surprised that you won't admit that.

[red states rule]

the census bureau speaks about non-citizens..... those are different from illegal aliens, aren't they.

Once again you are busted in another lie. Illegals are included in the uninusred number as well as other who chose not to pay for ins

The Heritage Foundation Responds to Uninsured Numbers in New U.S. Census Bureau Report

WASHINGTON, AUG. 28, 2007 — Look closely behind the Census Bureau numbers of the uninsured, now estimated at 47 million, or 15.8 percent of the population. How one diagnoses the problem will largely determine how one prescribes the remedy. For those in Congress who want a government health care monopoly, the answer is simple: progressively expand government control over the entire health care sector of the economy, and push persons out of private health coverage, beginning with a robust expansion of the State Childrens' Health Insurance Program(SCHIP). For Americans who want to take personal control over their health care decisions, a more sophisticated policy is required. Meanwhile, in reading the Census Bureau numbers, policymakers should bear three things in mind:

The Census Bureau data is misleading. The Census Bureau's Current Population Survey (CPS) is a misleading measure of those who lack health insurance in America and an imprecise tool for analyzing the dimensions of the problem. Analysis of data from earlier Census Bureau and other government reports shows that roughly 7 million are illegal immigrants; roughly 9 million are persons on Medicaid; 3.5 million are persons already eligible for government health programs; and approximately 20 million have, or live, in families with incomes greater than twice the federal poverty level, or $41,300 for a family of four.

Most of the uninsured are in and out of health coverage. The professional literature also shows that, overwhelmingly, the vast majority of the uninsured are persons who are in and out of coverage, largely as a result of job changes. Only a small number of the uninsured are chronically uninsured. For most of the uninsured, the problem is fixable if policymakers simply take steps to make health insurance portable, so the insurance policy sticks to the person, not the job.

http://www.heritage.org/Press/NewsRe.../nr082807a.cfm

[retiredman]

Your examples are absurd. My question is completely legitimate and being asked by many concerned voters. The fact that you can't answer it, and neither will your boy, brings up a big red flag. I'm not surprised that you won't admit that.

show me where his plan does NOT cover pets.

I cannot show you where his plan does not cover illegal aliens because it makes no mention of illegal aliens. He will not cover illegal aliens. he will not cover brits or norwegians either. He will cover uninsured americans.

[retiredman]

Once again you are busted in another lie. Illegals are included in the uninusred number as well as other who chose not to pay for ins

The Heritage Foundation Responds to Uninsured Numbers in New U.S. Census Bureau Report


"The Census Bureau data is misleading."

and just a minute ago, you were touting the census bureau. pick an editorial and stick with it...but don't pass it off as fact.

[red states rule]

show me where his plan does NOT cover pets.

I cannot show you where his plan does not cover illegal aliens because it makes no mention of illegal aliens. He will not cover illegal aliens. he will not cover brits or norwegians either. He will cover uninsured americans.

He wants to cover illegals and Americans who have decided not to buy ins

Another governemnt run health care plan that will bankrupt the taxpayers but expand the power and size of government

Which is the real goal in the first place

[retiredman]

He wants to cover illegals


of course, you cannot show me anything that SAYS that.

[red states rule]

of course, you cannot show me anything that SAYS that.

Keep lying for your boy - I hope he keep repeating his desires to cover illegals and jack up taxes to pay for it

and I see you editied the part about forcing people to take out his governement health care plan

[glockmail]

show me where his plan does NOT cover pets.

I cannot show you where his plan does not cover illegal aliens because it makes no mention of illegal aliens. He will not cover illegal aliens. he will not cover brits or norwegians either. He will cover uninsured americans. I know of no one who is concerned that your boy's plan would cover pets or people who live elsewhere. Many like me, though, are concerned that it will cover illegal aliens. Doesn't that concern you? It doesn't seem to concern Obama enough to mention it on his web site.

Again, that raises a red flag to many potential voters. Any smart candidate would want to clear that up. It should be easy enough to do.

[retiredman]

I know of no one who is concerned that your boy's plan would cover pets or people who live elsewhere. Many like me, though, are concerned that it will cover illegal aliens. Doesn't that concern you? It doesn't seem to concern Obama enough to mention it on his web site.

Again, that raises a red flag to many potential voters. Any smart candidate would want to clear that up. It should be easy enough to do.

If Obama had said he was planning on covering illegal aliens, it would concern me. He didn't say any such thing.

[glockmail]

I just searched Obama's site again. Any search with "heathcare" in it brings me to the same page. That page does not contain the words illegal, alien, or immigrant. There is nothing to explain my question.

[retiredman]

I just searched Obama's site again. Any search with "heathcare" in it brings me to the same page. That page does not contain the words illegal, alien, or immigrant. There is nothing to explain my question.

gosh I'm sorry.

Imagine how befuddled you could be when you really start to consider the entire scope of words in the english language that is NOT contained in that page.

[glockmail]

gosh I'm sorry.

Imagine how befuddled you could be when you really start to consider the entire scope of words in the english language that is NOT contained in that page.

I just emailed his campaign to get an answer. Maybe they'll be more responsive.

[CockySOB]

While I haven't seen anything which indicates that Obama intends to provide health insurance to illegals, his platform DOES include amnesty for current illegals, which would then make them eligible under his health insurance plan.

It's a nice two-step. On one hand Obama talks about providing insurance to all Americans, and then in another breath talks about amnesty for illegals "in good standing."

[retiredman]

I just emailed his campaign to get an answer. Maybe they'll be more responsive.

be sure and share their response! I'm dying to know!

[red states rule]

I just emailed his campaign to get an answer. Maybe they'll be more responsive.

You really expect MFM to say anything the least bit critical of his boy? He would be branded a racist and tossed out of the Dem party, and be removed from the DNC talking points fax list

[glockmail]

be sure and share their response! I'm dying to know!
Here it is:


Thank you for contacting Obama for America. The volume of messages we’re receiving has gone up since Barack’s victory in Iowa. While we cannot respond individually to over a thousand messages per day, the level of interest and thoughtfulness of the comments reflected in these communications are very gratifying. Your thoughts on our campaign and America's future are greatly appreciated.

Individual citizens like you are the foundation of this campaign.



Since his February 10 announcement speech in Springfield, Illinois, Barack has spoken consistently of working together to reclaim the meaning of citizenship, restore our sense of common purpose and rally the power of millions of voices to demand long overdue change. We hope you will explore our website, www.BarackObama.com, to view that speech in its entirety and learn more about Barack, his record and his plans.

If you’re writing because you want change, we need you to help us fight for it. Please sign up here to volunteer:



http://my.barackobama.com/acvolunteer



And you can get started from home right now. We've built a set of easy-to-use web tools that empower you to get further involved right now. Click My.BarackObama.com, where you can find events near you, connect with neighbors who support Barack, create your own blog, and do much, much more.

And if you're not sure you want to get involved, and are writing to express a concern or disagreement, we appreciate that as well. The open discussion we want to facilitate cannot take place without hearing from people expressing a wide range of views.

Thank you again for writing.

Sincerely,

The Correspondence Team
Obama for America

---

Here are some more useful links to help you get started:

Learn more about Barack’s policy positions: http://my.barackobama.com/acissues

See Barack in person or attend a campaign event: view the Events section toward the bottom of the front page www.BarackObama.com.

Invite Senator Obama or Michelle to an event: http://invite.barackobama.com

Donate: http://my.barackobama.com/acdonate



Buy Obama Gear: http://my.barackobama.com/acstore





--------------------------------
Paid for by Obama for America

Doesn't say much about the issue raised. In fact it doesn't even say that they'll get back to me about it.

[retiredman]

Here it is:



Doesn't say much about the issue raised. In fact it doesn't even say that they'll get back to me about it.


keep your fingers crossed!

and in the meantime, you can get yourself some Obama gear!:laugh2:

[red states rule]

Here it is:



Doesn't say much about the issue raised. In fact it doesn't even say that they'll get back to me about it.

Nothing but double talk, and bumper sticker talking points

MFM could have wrote it

[glockmail]

keep your fingers crossed!

and in the meantime, you can get yourself some Obama gear!:laugh2:

I'm not exactly holding my breath. And I won’t be contributing to a candidate who appears to be willing to use tax dollars to provide heath care coverage to non-Americans.

[glockmail]

keep your fingers crossed!

and in the meantime, you can get yourself some Obama gear!:laugh2: It looks like your boy has confirmed that he will be covering illegals.

His response to my email (bold/ large font emphasis mine).


Dear Friend,

Thank you for contacting me about our health care crisis. When 47 million Americans have no health insurance and families and businesses are strained to the breaking point, we know it's time for a change. This must be a top national priority, and that's why I have introduced a plan to provide every American with comprehensive, affordable, and portable coverage during my first term as President.

I encourage you to read more about my plan, and watch the video of my health care speech here:

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/

I have the experience of bringing people together that's needed to accomplish this goal. But it will take millions of voices united for change to overcome the forces that have prevented meaningful health care reform in Washington for so long. So take action. Thousands of Americans have sent in their ideas and stories on health care and other policy issues through the My Policy web tool, and I hope you will do the same through the link above.

To see more details of the plan, click here:

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/pdf/HealthCareFullPlan.pdf

I am committed to covering everyone, and I hope you will join me in this fight.

Sincerely,

Barack Obama



-------------------------------------

Paid for by Obama for America

[red states rule]

It looks like your boy has confirmed that he will be covering illegals.

His response to my email (bold/ large font emphasis mine).

Looks like Pedro is going to get his Barrycare

[Yurt]

what was the question you asked? did it specifically mention illegals?

[red states rule]

what was the question you asked? did it specifically mention illegals?

I gues MFM has left this thread in shame

[glockmail]

what was the question you asked? did it specifically mention illegals? The same one that I asked MFM 6 times and he couldn't answer: http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=243708&postcount=183

[glockmail]

I gues MFM has left this thread in shame
You mean mannoshame?

[Yurt]

The same one that I asked MFM 6 times and he couldn't answer: http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=243708&postcount=183

since you asked that same question, there can be no doubt that obama did not know what you were asking and his reply "everyone" clearly shows his plan would support illegals.

no wonder he ran....

[GW in Ohio]

Doesn't matter how you slice it, or how you spin it.....

America is dumping the GOP like a bad habit.

[retiredman]

since you asked that same question, there can be no doubt that obama did not know what you were asking and his reply "everyone" clearly shows his plan would support illegals.
no wonder he ran....


the bolded word makes the sentence nonsensical. Did you mean to say that "there can be no doubt the Obama did know..."?

I answered glock (the scourge or young skiers everywhere) several times.

I ran nowhere. My daughter just came home from college.

[retiredman]

Doesn't matter how you slice it, or how you spin it.....

America is dumping the GOP like a bad habit.

I agree.

[Yurt]

the bolded word makes the sentence nonsensical. Did you mean to say that "there can be no doubt the Obama did know..."?

I answered glock (the scourge or young skiers everywhere) several times.

I ran nowhere. My daughter just came home from college.

your post is nonsensical....i merely pointed out that since i now know exactly what was asked, you or obama, can't later say....well i didn't really know "that" is what he was asking.

so you now admit obama supports health care and retract where you say he does not?

[glockmail]

....

I answered glock (the scourge or young skiers everywhere) several times.

.....

Fuck you asshole- where?

You're too busy talking to your pshrink about your childhood trauma.

[retiredman]

Fuck you asshole- where?

You're too busy talking to your pshrink about your childhood trauma.

touched a nerve, did I? :laugh2:

I have no childhood trauma.... and neither do my kids!

[actsnoblemartin]

did you not see the approval ratings for the democrat controlled congress :poke:



I agree.

[actsnoblemartin]

did you not see the approval ratings for the democrat controlled congress :poke:


Doesn't matter how you slice it, or how you spin it.....

America is dumping the GOP like a bad habit.

[glockmail]

touched a nerve, did I? :laugh2:

I have no childhood trauma.... and neither do my kids!

Not really. The fact that you were sexually abused by your father as a young boy explains why you'd accuse me of queer pedophiliac incest. You think that behavior is common. Let’s hope that your pshrink caught this in time and your kids have escaped that cycle.

Still can't answer the question?

[retiredman]

Not really. The fact that you were sexually abused by your father as a young boy explains why you'd accuse me of queer pedophiliac incest. You think that behavior is common. Let’s hope that your pshrink caught this in time and your kids have escaped that cycle.

Still can't answer the question?


your "facts" are fiction.

your children are in danger.

and I answered your question several times. Your acting as if I didn't won't change that.

[glockmail]

your "facts" are fiction.

your children are in danger.

and I answered your question several times. Your acting as if I didn't won't change that.

Since our identities are unknown to you they are safe.

You're really going all out to deflect form answering the question. Why not simply provide a link to where you supposedly answered it?

[retiredman]

Since our identities are unknown to you they are safe.

You're really going all out to deflect form answering the question. Why not simply provide a link to where you supposedly answered it?

your kids were never in danger from me.... it's their daddy they need to fear.

and like I said. asked and answered. I have no desire to do your research for you.

[red states rule]

your post is nonsensical....i merely pointed out that since i now know exactly what was asked, you or obama, can't later say....well i didn't really know "that" is what he was asking.

so you now admit obama supports health care and retract where you say he does not?

Obama's own words show he intends to cover illegals with US taxpayer money

[retiredman]

Obama's own words show he intends to cover illegals with US taxpayer money

a deliberately flawed interpretation by you. Obama has NEVER said he would cover illegal aliens.

[glockmail]

your kids were never in danger from me.... it's their daddy they need to fear.

and like I said. asked and answered. I have no desire to do your research for you.

My kids aren't in danger of you because you don't know where we live.


Unfortunately for you, your old man knew exactly where you lived, and took full advantage of the situation: "oh daddy- it hurts..."

[red states rule]

a deliberately flawed interpretation by you. Obama has NEVER said he would cover illegal aliens.

Well, you have done it. You have exceeded Bill Clinton as the biggest liar I have ever seen

Comgrats

[glockmail]

a deliberately flawed interpretation by you. Obama has NEVER said he would cover illegal aliens.


Wrong-o:
http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=244357&postcount=206

[red states rule]

Wrong-o:
http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=244357&postcount=206

Now even what his boy says does not matter to MFM. He is the ultimate polictical hack. He should (if he does not already) write articles for the Daily Kook Kos and Dem Underground

[retiredman]

Wrong-o:
http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=244357&postcount=206

the "everyone" to which he refers are Americans. Illegal aliens are not Americans. try again.

[retiredman]

Now even what his boy says does not matter to MFM. He is the ultimate polictical hack. He should (if he does not already) write articles for the Daily Kook Kos and Dem Underground

I take that as a tacit admission from you that I can, indeed, write...and you can only cut and paste!:laugh2:

[glockmail]

Barry keeps sending me shit, and thanking me for what I'm doing. :lol:


[glockmail] --

I have some very exciting news.

My good friend John Edwards is endorsing our campaign and joining our movement for change.

We're here in Grand Rapids, Michigan -- and if you receive this message in time, you can probably turn on your TV and be part of the moment.

I'm deeply honored by John's support. He is a true leader who dedicated his career to improving the lives of ordinary Americans.

John ran a strong, principled campaign for president, focusing on a number of important issues where we share common ground -- universal health care, bringing our troops home from Iraq, and eliminating poverty in America.

The way he ran his campaign was also important. He ran in a way that reflected our shared conviction that we need to fundamentally change politics.

Like our campaign, John's campaign never accepted donations from Washington lobbyists or special interest PACs.

Let's welcome John Edwards to the campaign with an outpouring of the kind of grassroots support that is bringing our political process back to the people.

Make a donation of whatever you can afford now, and if you choose, include your own note to Senator Edwards. I'll make sure he gets them:

https://donate.barackobama.com/johnedwards

Thank you for all that you're doing,

Barack

[retiredman]

Well, you have done it. You have exceeded Bill Clinton as the biggest liar I have ever seen

Comgrats

don't call me a liar, baldy.

[red states rule]

the "everyone" to which he refers are Americans. Illegal aliens are not Americans. try again.

DP's version of Baghdad Bob tries to cover for his boy once again :laugh2:

[red states rule]

don't call me a liar, baldy.

It is your #1 attribute. Lying is all you can do when it comes to your boy

[retiredman]

It is your #1 attribute. Lying is all you can do when it comes to your boy

That is false.

I'm not lying. And I'm not dying.

[glockmail]

the "everyone" to which he refers are Americans. Illegal aliens are not Americans. try again.

Wrong-o again. That was Barry's response to a specific question: How will he deny coverage to illegals and their children under this plan? Barry’s answer: “I am committed to covering everyone…” http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=244357&postcount=206

By the way, that was the same question that was posed to you several times and you can’t answer.

[red states rule]

That is false.

I'm not lying. And I'm not dying.

Like Bubba, you just keep tossing out the whoppers, while ignoring reality

[glockmail]

... And I'm not dying.
Have some salt.

[retiredman]

Like Bubba, you just keep tossing out the whoppers, while ignoring reality

Wrong. I have never said anything I knew to be false.

If you had the quote from Obama that said he was going to cover illegal aliens, you would have produced it by now. I know I have never heard or read any statement by Obama where he said he intended to cover illegal aliens with his health care plan.... only that he intended to cover all AMERICANS.

[red states rule]

Wrong. I have never said anything I knew to be false.

If you had the quote from Obama that said he was going to cover illegal aliens, you would have produced it by now. I know I have never heard or read any statement by Obama where he said he intended to cover illegal aliens with his health care plan.... only that he intended to cover all AMERICANS.

Bull. All you do is lie, spin, deflect, and dodge

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[retiredman]

Bull. All you do is lie, spin, deflect, and dodge




no. I don't. I have NEVER written anything on here that I knew was false. never.

You, on the other hand, are content to repeat the same tired old lies day after day and consistently dodge any questions that are posed to you in clarification.

[glockmail]

no. I don't. I have NEVER written anything on here that I knew was false. never.

You, on the other hand, are content to repeat the same tired old lies day after day and consistently dodge any questions that are posed to you in clarification. You wrote that my Mum had dentures. You knew that to be false.

[red states rule]

[QUOTE=manfrommaine;244933]no. I don't. I have NEVER written anything on here that I knew was false. never.

QUOTE]

Bill said the same thing for years. The Clinton legacy lives on in you

[Yurt]

no. I don't. I have NEVER written anything on here that I knew was false. never.

You, on the other hand, are content to repeat the same tired old lies day after day and consistently dodge any questions that are posed to you in clarification.

you kept calling me jewish after you knew i am not...

[Yurt]

your post is nonsensical....i merely pointed out that since i now know exactly what was asked, you or obama, can't later say....well i didn't really know "that" is what he was asking.

so you now admit obama supports health care and retract where you say he does not?


a deliberately flawed interpretation by you. Obama has NEVER said he would cover illegal aliens.


the "everyone" to which he refers are Americans. Illegal aliens are not Americans. try again.

mfm, that is exactly why i asked glock the question he asked obama...and exactly why i said you cannot say that obama did not know everyone meant illegals too. glock specifically asked about illegals, obama said yes...everyone.

[retiredman]

mfm, that is exactly why i asked glock the question he asked obama...and exactly why i said you cannot say that obama did not know everyone meant illegals too. glock specifically asked about illegals, obama said yes...everyone.

yeah.."Obama" said it.:lol:

I bet he personally banged out that response to glock on his laptop in between campaign appearances!

I will bet that, oddly enough, he took the time to write the exact same email four hundred other times that very morning in response to four hundred other emails that were sent to him asking him questions about his health care plan.

[Yurt]

yeah.."Obama" said it.:lol:

I bet he personally banged out that response to glock on his laptop in between campaign appearances!

I will bet that, oddly enough, he took the time to write the exact same email four hundred other times that very morning in response to four hundred other emails that were sent to him asking him questions about his health care plan.


I am committed to covering everyone, and I hope you will join me in this fight.

Sincerely,

Barack Obama

are you saying then that someone on obama's staff is a liar and that you do not accept the email because you believe it was only a staff member who signed obama's name? so everytime a staff member signs his name, the words are not true?

[retiredman]

are you saying then that someone on obama's staff is a liar and that you do not accept the email because you believe it was only a staff member who signed obama's name? so everytime a staff member signs his name, the words are not true?

no. I am saying that it is a canned pre-written email that is sent to anyone who asks a question about healthcare.

Oh yeah...and I am also saying that you are intentionally obtuse and obsessively argumentative.

which of your "clients" do you bill for all the time you spend on here, btw?:lol: