How do Nam vets feel about Hanoi John?

[gabosaurus]

You should read up on his views about veterans' rights (or lack of them), withholding of information about POW/MIA info, funding cuts and disdain for his fellow vets.

[namvet]

You should read up on his views about veterans' rights (or lack of them), withholding of information about POW/MIA info, funding cuts and disdain for his fellow vets.

see what happens when you get your ass swift boated?????

[Gaffer]

You should read up on his views about veterans' rights (or lack of them), withholding of information about POW/MIA info, funding cuts and disdain for his fellow vets.

I have read his views and seen his actions. Actions speak louder than words. The man's a traitor and has no business being a senator or anything else.

I'll gladly piss on his grave.

[theHawk]

Which John? LOL.

[gabosaurus]

McCain, of course. Kerry is irrelevant at this point.

[Gaffer]

McCain, of course. Kerry is irrelevant at this point.

But kerry is hanoi john.

[gabosaurus]

McCain is the new Hanoi John. He betrayed his country by collaborating with the enemy.

[manu1959]

McCain is the new Hanoi John. He betrayed his country by collaborating with the enemy.

really.....what information or actions helped the enemy win the war.....

[gabosaurus]

really.....what information or actions helped the enemy win the war.....

Why don't you ask him? Only McCain knows what he told them.
Shouldn't McCain be held accountable for the same type of dire actions that Kerry was? Even though the allegations against Kerry were proven to be false.

[Gaffer]

Why don't you ask him? Only McCain knows what he told them.
Shouldn't McCain be held accountable for the same type of dire actions that Kerry was? Even though the allegations against Kerry were proven to be false.

So your speculating that McCain told them anything. How much talking would you do if you were tortured for years?

kerry was never tortured he voluntarily met with the enemy in another country, Conspired with them and gave false testimony to the congress. It's all documented fact.

I don't care if McCain sold them the George Washington Bridge. He was under constant duress and pain, as were his fellow prisoners. McCain is some one to look up too in that respect. kerry is just something to be stepped on and kicked aside.

[Pale Rider]

I'm no mccain lover, and no I'm not voting for him either, but all these allegations against him and not one shred of evidence?

How about maybe a link to something... :dunno:

[rppearso]

what exactly did kerry do? I never heard anything about him consipiring with the enemy during the last election, all I heard about was "swift boat veterans" and something about a hand full of people who think he dident deserve some metal he got. What is the key issue here with kerry, I always thought this was smear tactics by staunch republicans or did he actually sell secrets to the enemy?

The problem with McCain is he will perpetuate Bush's policy and this nation can not handle another 4-8 years without going bankrupt and ending up like Russia. If Ron Paul is not on the ballot, as much as I dont want to I will probably vote for Obama (assuming Hilary looses the primary) because at least he will stop the war and get the military under control and hopefully point our economy in the right direction.

[Gaffer]

what exactly did kerry do? I never heard anything about him consipiring with the enemy during the last election, all I heard about was "swift boat veterans" and something about a hand full of people who think he dident deserve some metal he got. What is the key issue here with kerry, I always thought this was smear tactics by staunch republicans or did he actually sell secrets to the enemy?

The problem with McCain is he will perpetuate Bush's policy and this nation can not handle another 4-8 years without going bankrupt and ending up like Russia. If Ron Paul is not on the ballot, as much as I dont want to I will probably vote for Obama (assuming Hilary looses the primary) because at least he will stop the war and get the military under control and hopefully point our economy in the right direction.

First off he played himself as a hero. He finagled 3 purple hearts in order to get out of finishing his tour in Vietnam. None of the woulds were serious enough to warrant a purple heart. And its questionable whether they were combat related.

He lied about his actions there. Claiming to be in Cambodia on Christmas 1968 under orders from Nixon when Nixon didn't take office until Jan 1969. His boat was actually at their base near the coast.

He met with NV officials in Paris while the peace talks were underway. He had no authority to do so and its not clear what all was discussed. He was clearly fraternizing with the enemy.

He went before congress with his infamous defaming of the troops and lied about what he saw and what he participated in.

That's just a few off the top of my head. There's much more.

If we pull out of iraq tomorrow the war will still be going on. islam is not going to stop fighting us just because we leave one front. It's not iraq, it's islam.

[rppearso]

First off he played himself as a hero. He finagled 3 purple hearts in order to get out of finishing his tour in Vietnam. None of the woulds were serious enough to warrant a purple heart. And its questionable whether they were combat related.

He lied about his actions there. Claiming to be in Cambodia on Christmas 1968 under orders from Nixon when Nixon didn't take office until Jan 1969. His boat was actually at their base near the coast.

He met with NV officials in Paris while the peace talks were underway. He had no authority to do so and its not clear what all was discussed. He was clearly fraternizing with the enemy.

He went before congress with his infamous defaming of the troops and lied about what he saw and what he participated in.

That's just a few off the top of my head. There's much more.

If we pull out of iraq tomorrow the war will still be going on. islam is not going to stop fighting us just because we leave one front. It's not iraq, it's islam.

Isent it convient that all of this came out as soon as he ran for president. The navy inspector general confirmed all the metals to be lagit and the navy seal rescued from the water confirmed kerrys story, it was the other swift boat veterans that said he was lying, and why wait 35 years until he runs for president why dident they speak up when the paper work was being done to get his metals. After reading up on this, I just think some military members have sand in there vagina becasue kerry is a democrat and anti-war which proves my point that regardless of prior service GI's with sand in there vagina wont give you the time of day if your opinion differs from theres which just makes them idiots and the fact that the swift boat veterans were given any credibility at all is sad. What this really boils down to is not his metals or actions but the fact that they were able to sensationalize some swift boat idiots testimony 35 year after the fact and hype it up just enough to sway the uneducated and lazy Americans vote. Its really the american peoples own fault we have bush.

I kinda suspected this from the start just based off my own experience with these type of people in the military (which make up way to high of a percentage, which is why the military sucks in my opinion these people that live there life to the tune of eating there cherrios out of a skull and every other word out of there mouth is a swear word or some other form of hostile speach) but I wanted to give gaffer the benefit of the doubt.

[82Marine89]

Isent it convient that all of this came out as soon as he ran for president. The navy inspector general confirmed all the metals to be lagit and the navy seal rescued from the water confirmed kerrys story, it was the other swift boat veterans that said he was lying, and why wait 35 years until he runs for president why dident they speak up when the paper work was being done to get his metals. After reading up on this, I just think some military members have sand in there vagina becasue kerry is a democrat and anti-war which proves my point that regardless of prior service GI's with sand in there vagina wont give you the time of day if your opinion differs from theres which just makes them idiots and the fact that the swift boat veterans were given any credibility at all is sad. What this really boils down to is not his metals or actions but the fact that they were able to sensationalize some swift boat idiots testimony 35 year after the fact and hype it up just enough to sway the uneducated and lazy Americans vote. Its really the american peoples own fault we have bush.

Spell check and intelligence can be your friends. You just have to use them.

[namvet]

Isent it convient that all of this came out as soon as he ran for president. The navy inspector general confirmed all the metals to be lagit and the navy seal rescued from the water confirmed kerrys story, it was the other swift boat veterans that said he was lying, and why wait 35 years until he runs for president why dident they speak up when the paper work was being done to get his metals. After reading up on this, I just think some military members have sand in there vagina becasue kerry is a democrat and anti-war which proves my point that regardless of prior service GI's with sand in there vagina wont give you the time of day if your opinion differs from theres which just makes them idiots and the fact that the swift boat veterans were given any credibility at all is sad. What this really boils down to is not his metals or actions but the fact that they were able to sensationalize some swift boat idiots testimony 35 year after the fact and hype it up just enough to sway the uneducated and lazy Americans vote. Its really the american peoples own fault we have bush.

I joined the swift boats.............

[retiredman]

I joined the swift boats.............
did you observe Lt Kerry in action?

[namvet]

Kerry's biggest mistake was running for prez on his war record. dumb. he threw the gauntlet in front of a lot of vets. including some who served with him.
he wanted no part of Nam. but he was being groomed for prez by the Kennedy's. so he needed a war record. and some medals. he got em and left for conus.
hey this all really just sour grapes................

[rppearso]

I joined the swift boats.............

So....

[namvet]

did you observe Lt Kerry in action?

no. he was in the brown water and i was in the blue............

[namvet]

So....

so what ????

[rppearso]

Kerry's biggest mistake was running for prez on his war record. dumb. he threw the gauntlet in front of a lot of vets. including some who served with him.
he wanted no part of Nam. but he was being groomed for prez by the Kennedy's. so he needed a war record. and some medals. he got em and left for conus.
hey this all really just sour grapes................

Can you prove any of that and why dident you say something 35 years ago when he was being awarded the metals, a silver star is a big deal they dont give those out willie nilly. And even if what you say is true kennedy was a good president and if he endorsed Kerry, Kerry probably would have done a lot of good for this country. Where Bush has flushed our economy down the toilet, im just hoping that by being in the oil and gas industry I will be able to ride this out with out to much of a reduction in quality of life.

[retiredman]

no. he was in the brown water and i was in the blue............

then why would you join the SBVT crowd?

[namvet]

then why would you join the SBVT crowd?

to castrate Kerry

[rppearso]

so what ????

Exactly, im glad you agree.

[namvet]

Can you prove any of that and why dident you say something 35 years ago when he was being awarded the metals, a silver star is a big deal they dont give those out willie nilly. And even if what you say is true kennedy was a good president and if he endorsed Kerry, Kerry probably would have done a lot of good for this country.

still sore he didn't win son??? get a grip..................

[rppearso]

to castrate Kerry

mmm mee's like corn bread, lol.

[retiredman]

to castrate Kerry
so you are neither a swift boat veteran or give a shit about the truth?

you sound like every other SBVT member.

[rppearso]

still sore he didn't win son??? get a grip..................

It doesnt matter as much to me as it should to the rest of you in Conus especially being in oil and gas my quality of life will not go down to much if at all. So if you want to vote for a war monger you can pay for it dont expect me to help and dont ever claim you are defending my freedom, the last time our freedom was actually defended through forign hostile action was WW2 all the other wars were pissing matchs. Defending our freedom now would be weeding out all the burecrates in government that are not elected and sneek around like rats eroding our nation from within, like the guy who came up with the idea that ammo should be declaired "hazourdus material" ought to be executed because its back door gun control maybe we should manifest household cleaners too assholes

[namvet]

so you are neither a swift boat veteran or give a shit about the truth?

you sound like every other SBVT member.

listen. the swift boats were formed when kerry ran for office. you didn't have to serve in PBR's ok ???? got it???? huh????

[namvet]

It doesnt matter as much to me as it should to the rest of you in Conus especially being in oil and gas my quality of life will not go down to much if at all. So if you want to vote for a war monger you can pay for it dont expect me to help and dont ever claim you are defending my freedom, the last time our freedom was actually defended through forign hostile action was WW2 all the other wars were pissing matchs. Defending our freedom now would be weeding out all the burecrates in government that are not elected and sneek around like rats eroding our nation from within, like the guy who came up with the idea that ammo should be declaired "hazourdus material" ought to be executed because its back door gun control maybe we should manifest household cleaners too assholes

wow. im getting aroused.............

[retiredman]

listen. the swift boats were formed when kerry ran for office. you didn't have to serve in PBR's ok ???? got it???? huh????


so the term "swift boat veterans for truth" means nothing?

I thought as much.

the guy got a silver star. you piss on that, you piss on EVERY Navy recipient of that medal.

politics over country. it makes me sick.

[Psychoblues]

John McCain and John Kerry are both American Heroes much unlike gwb. You all can fuss all you want about the records of either but the record that counts most for me is that they served as admirably as they could at the time. The Swift Boat Liars and the Hanoi Shitheads can kiss this old veterans ass.

[namvet]

so the term "swift boat veterans for truth" means nothing?

I thought as much.

the guy got a silver star. you piss on that, you piss on EVERY Navy recipient of that medal.

politics over country. it makes me sick.

you should be ill after posting this crap. your a lying sack a sh** libtard

[namvet]

John McCain and John Kerry are both American Heroes much unlike gwb. You all can fuss all you want about the records of either but the record that counts most for me is that they served as admirably as they could at the time. The Swift Boat Liars and the Hanoi Shitheads can kiss this old veterans ass.

I have no doubt you kiss a lot a ass !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[namvet]

I honor vets. Kerry dosen't qualify. medals. my ass................

[Gaffer]

Wow namvet, you got to run into the three biggest asswipes on the board in one thread. I'll warn you that none of them have any reading comprehension skills and will ignore all facts presented.

mfm will begin cursing you shortly. rr is a wash out loser and psycobabble is a drunk who can't spell or type cohesive sentences. In other words the cream of the democrat party.

You notice they never defended kerry on the meetings with NV reps or his lying to congress. They just want to spout about his medals.

[Psychoblues]

Thanks for the blowjob, namvet!!!!!!!!!!!


I have no doubt you kiss a lot a ass !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You're a hero in my book!!!!!!!!!! When did such a sweetie 'lil chick like you ever find a place like this?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

[rppearso]

you should be ill after posting this crap. your a lying sack a sh** libtard

ahuck, would you like some tatar tots with your corn bread before you go have sex with your sister. Statements like this show your intelligence. I may not be able to spell but you cant even express rational thought or reasoning.

[rppearso]

Wow namvet, you got to run into the three biggest asswipes on the board in one thread. I'll warn you that none of them have any reading comprehension skills and will ignore all facts presented.

mfm will begin cursing you shortly. rr is a wash out loser and psycobabble is a drunk who can't spell or type cohesive sentences. In other words the cream of the democrat party.

You notice they never defended kerry on the meetings with NV reps or his lying to congress. They just want to spout about his medals.

The reason I did not mention his selling of secrets to vietnam is because there was 0 information on it so if you can provide a link that PROVES he sold secrets to vietnam I would probably reconsider my stance. I believe you will not provide anything that is more than circumstantial if you can find anything at all.

[Gaffer]

The reason I did not mention his selling of secrets to vietnam is because there was 0 information on it so if you can provide a link that PROVES he sold secrets to vietnam I would probably reconsider my stance. I believe you will not provide anything that is more than circumstantial if you can find anything at all.

I won't do your research for you. If you were able to find the defense of kerry stuff you can find all the rest of it. But being a quitter you won't bother.

[retiredman]

you should be ill after posting this crap. your a lying sack a sh** libtard


no lie whatsoever. the fact remains: a silver star means something. piss on Kerry's silver star, you piss on every navy silver star recipient. you may be a navy vet, but no one I'd ever want on MY ship.

[Psychoblues]

Somehow I don't believe namvet is anything other than an illusion.



no lie whatsoever. the fact remains: a silver star means something. piss on Kerry's silver star, you piss on every navy silver star recipient. you may be a navy vet, but no one I'd ever want on MY ship.

It's been going on for years, don't you know?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

[Gaffer]

no lie whatsoever. the fact remains: a silver star means something. piss on Kerry's silver star, you piss on every navy silver star recipient. you may be a navy vet, but no one I'd ever want on MY ship.

pissing on kerry's silver star is the same as pissing on kerry. I can do that. And no one in their right mind would want to serve on the same ship as you. The silver star is irrelevant. His actions and lies are what count. He thought so highly of medals he threw someone else's over the wall at the white house.

Leaving the service aside, he secretly met with north vietnam officials in paris and lied to congress about what he saw and participated in. That is fact. He fucked over you and everyone else in the military and you want to defend him. You should be ashamed of your self.

[rppearso]

I won't do your research for you. If you were able to find the defense of kerry stuff you can find all the rest of it. But being a quitter you won't bother.

I wont play fetch for you thats for sure. I just did a general search and it never came up so if you want to make claims you need to back it up not me. What the swift boat idiots are doing is no different from the what all the other 2 bit pieces of shit in the military do. His selling secrets to vietnam is about as plausable as UFO's. BTW watching stuff on UFO's is fun, watching the swift boat veterans add was like watching a military recruiting video a bunch of bull shit and not entertaining like UFO's.

[retiredman]

pissing on kerry's silver star is the same as pissing on kerry. I can do that. And no one in their right mind would want to serve on the same ship as you. The silver star is irrelevant. His actions and lies are what count. He thought so highly of medals he threw someone else's over the wall at the white house.

Leaving the service aside, he secretly met with north vietnam officials in paris and lied to congress about what he saw and participated in. That is fact. He fucked over you and everyone else in the military and you want to defend him. You should be ashamed of your self.

the fact remains: if you piss on one navy recipient of the silver star, you piss on all navy recipients of the silver star.

[rppearso]

pissing on kerry's silver star is the same as pissing on kerry. I can do that. And no one in their right mind would want to serve on the same ship as you. The silver star is irrelevant. His actions and lies are what count. He thought so highly of medals he threw someone else's over the wall at the white house.

Leaving the service aside, he secretly met with north vietnam officials in paris and lied to congress about what he saw and participated in. That is fact. He fucked over you and everyone else in the military and you want to defend him. You should be ashamed of your self.

Was he taken to paris in a UFO and escorted to the secret meeting place by the KGB. Maybe kerry and the aliens colaberated together to help the viet cong. PROVE it

[rppearso]

pissing on kerry's silver star is the same as pissing on kerry. I can do that. And no one in their right mind would want to serve on the same ship as you. The silver star is irrelevant. His actions and lies are what count. He thought so highly of medals he threw someone else's over the wall at the white house.

Leaving the service aside, he secretly met with north vietnam officials in paris and lied to congress about what he saw and participated in. That is fact. He fucked over you and everyone else in the military and you want to defend him. You should be ashamed of your self.

"pissing on kerry's silver star is the same as pissing on kerry. I can do that." Can you even read dude?

This is what was said "piss on Kerry's silver star, you piss on every navy silver star recipient."

[Psychoblues]

I knew you had it in you, guffy!!!!!!! how does it feel?

Psssssssssssssssssssssss all over you!!!!! Pssssssssssssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!





pissing on kerry's silver star is the same as pissing on kerry. I can do that. And no one in their right mind would want to serve on the same ship as you. The silver star is irrelevant. His actions and lies are what count. He thought so highly of medals he threw someone else's over the wall at the white house.

Leaving the service aside, he secretly met with north vietnam officials in paris and lied to congress about what he saw and participated in. That is fact. He fucked over you and everyone else in the military and you want to defend him. You should be ashamed of your self.

Why did you fuck over all the military?!!?!?!?!??!?!?!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Psssssssssssss!!!!!!!!!! Pssssssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Glad to hear that you like piss so well, gaffer.

[namvet]

no lie whatsoever. the fact remains: a silver star means something. piss on Kerry's silver star, you piss on every navy silver star recipient. you may be a navy vet, but no one I'd ever want on MY ship.

why do i need to piss on YOUR scared Kerry's medal???? he did throw them over the fence at the wite house retard. he pissed on his self so go fuck yourself. me on YOUR ship???? don't you mean YOUR ship a faggots and fools????

[namvet]

the fact remains: if you piss on one navy recipient of the silver star, you piss on all navy recipients of the silver star.

your right. xcept scary kerry bought his. ziiiiiiiippppppppppppp............PISS

[namvet]

Wow namvet, you got to run into the three biggest asswipes on the board in one thread. I'll warn you that none of them have any reading comprehension skills and will ignore all facts presented.

mfm will begin cursing you shortly. rr is a wash out loser and psycobabble is a drunk who can't spell or type cohesive sentences. In other words the cream of the democrat party.

You notice they never defended kerry on the meetings with NV reps or his lying to congress. They just want to spout about his medals.

every board got em. nothing new to me. but for them to pick up a shovel and go digging in grave yards is flat funny. maybe i should order both of them a silver star on ebay.

[Gaffer]

the fact remains: if you piss on one navy recipient of the silver star, you piss on all navy recipients of the silver star.

No I piss on one recipient.

[namvet]

Thanks for the blowjob, namvet!!!!!!!!!!!



You're a hero in my book!!!!!!!!!! When did such a sweetie 'lil chick like you ever find a place like this?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

you wanna a blow job???? your daddy's available. and so is kerry. he loves aids infected faggot bastards like you

[Gaffer]

Was he taken to paris in a UFO and escorted to the secret meeting place by the KGB. Maybe kerry and the aliens colaberated together to help the viet cong. PROVE it

He flew to paris the same way everybody else does. You know airlines. That's a mode of transportation used in the real world.

[Gaffer]

"pissing on kerry's silver star is the same as pissing on kerry. I can do that." Can you even read dude?

This is what was said "piss on Kerry's silver star, you piss on every navy silver star recipient."

By that logic when you say you hate Bush you hate every president that ever live. Calling mfm a fool is calling every man in maine a fool. mfm just likes to be offended. Gives him an excuse to cuss at people and call them names. It's the only thing he comes on this board for.

[namvet]

here's a really good kerry game. go for it !!!!!!!

medal toss (medal toss)

[namvet]

By that logic when you say you hate Bush you hate every president that ever live. Calling mfm a fool is calling every man in maine a fool. mfm just likes to be offended. Gives him an excuse to cuss at people and call them names. It's the only thing he comes on this board for.

would it be fair to say they eat gun powder for breakfast then go around shooting their mouth off all day??????:lol:

[retiredman]

your right. xcept scary kerry bought his. ziiiiiiiippppppppppppp............PISS

you piss on every silver star recipient when you assert that Kerry did not earn his but was awarded one nonetheless. I find that reprehensible.

[retiredman]

No I piss on one recipient.


it doesn't work that way. If you claim that the navy hands them out when they are not deserved, then every navy silver star becomes suspect.

[namvet]

you piss on every silver star recipient when you assert that Kerry did not earn his but was awarded one nonetheless. I find that reprehensible.

like I said. I honor vets. Kerry dis honored his self. throwing the medals at the white house??? obviously they meant nothing to him. also a tour in nam was 12 mons. why did he leave in 4????? they handed out medals to almost anyone who wanted one. even for a shaving nick like he did. he wanted his medals then to get out fast. he was NOT there to serve. except the kennedys.
i am finished with you. if you want to pursue ghost and phantoms in the night thats your business.

[retiredman]

like I said. I honor vets. Kerry dis honored his self. throwing the medals at the white house??? obviously they meant nothing to him. also a tour in nam was 12 mons. why did he leave in 4????? they handed out medals to almost anyone who wanted one. even for a shaving nick like he did. he wanted his medals then to get out fast. he was NOT there to serve. except the kennedys.
i am finished with you. if you want to pursue ghost and phantoms in the night thats your business.


again...to suggest that the navy handed out siler stars to anyone who wanted one dishonors and devalues every navy silver star recipient. that's a fact.

[namvet]

again...to suggest that the navy handed out siler stars to anyone who wanted one dishonors and devalues every navy silver star recipient. that's a fact.

you on ignore idiot.

[retiredman]

you on ignore idiot.

I can understand how someone who claims to be a nam vet would not enjoy another veteran pointing out how his statements dishonor all navy medal winners. No doubt you would not have the courage to stand up at any American Legion hall and tell the gathered veterans that their medals from Nam were worthless and that the government gave them away to anyone who wanted one. now run away.:lol:

[gabosaurus]

Go read my other threads about Hanoi John McCain. There are Nam veterans who served with McCain who are willing to testify that he collaborated with the North Vietnamese.
And to say that McCain talked simply because he was tortured demeans all the POWs who endured harsh treatment and didn't talk. McCain simply wanted preferential treatment for himself.

[namvet]

Go read my other threads about Hanoi John McCain. There are Nam veterans who served with McCain who are willing to testify that he collaborated with the North Vietnamese.
And to say that McCain talked simply because he was tortured demeans all the POWs who endured harsh treatment and didn't talk. McCain simply wanted preferential treatment for himself.

that's an outright fucking lie

[retiredman]

that's an outright fucking lie


are you suggesting that every American POW from Nam signed a "confession" like McCain did?

[namvet]

Go read my other threads about Hanoi John McCain. There are Nam veterans who served with McCain who are willing to testify that he collaborated with the North Vietnamese.
And to say that McCain talked simply because he was tortured demeans all the POWs who endured harsh treatment and didn't talk. McCain simply wanted preferential treatment for himself.


ill wait for your proof. otherwise this is just hear say. and im certain of that

[Mr. P]

Go read my other threads about Hanoi John McCain. There are Nam veterans who served with McCain who are willing to testify that he collaborated with the North Vietnamese.
And to say that McCain talked simply because he was tortured demeans all the POWs who endured harsh treatment and didn't talk. McCain simply wanted preferential treatment for himself.

You're over your head on this topic, believe me..they all talked.

[namvet]

Go read my other threads about Hanoi John McCain. There are Nam veterans who served with McCain who are willing to testify that he collaborated with the North Vietnamese.
And to say that McCain talked simply because he was tortured demeans all the POWs who endured harsh treatment and didn't talk. McCain simply wanted preferential treatment for himself.

as i thought. no proof. just lies. im finished with you

[Gaffer]

I already asked her for proof. She didn't have any.

As for medals. mfm, who was not in Vietnam, makes a lot of assumptions about what went on. Every officer who served over there was basically guaranteed at least one medal. Bronze Stars being the most prominent. It was critical to get them if you wanted to be promoted. So they were handed out like candy for almost anything. There were many handed out to those that didn't earn them. A silver star on an officer just meant he probably did see some action. But they were usually awarded the medals for what their men did, not what they did. If members of a platoon were awarded Bronze Stars for valor you can bet the Lt in charge of that platoon got a Silver. Whether he earned it or not.

I knew lots of good officers and I knew lots of bad ones. They all walked away with medals. So kerry's silver star does not impress me. What I really find aggravating about him is his purple hearts. Only one of which I feel he was half way qualified for. He used the three purple hearts and you go home rule to get out of there as fast as he could.

Did you get a silver star during your service mfm?

[namvet]

I already asked her for proof. She didn't have any.

As for medals. mfm, who was not in Vietnam, makes a lot of assumptions about what went on. Every officer who served over there was basically guaranteed at least one medal. Bronze Stars being the most prominent. It was critical to get them if you wanted to be promoted. So they were handed out like candy for almost anything. There were many handed out to those that didn't earn them. A silver star on an officer just meant he probably did see some action. But they were usually awarded the medals for what their men did, not what they did. If members of a platoon were awarded Bronze Stars for valor you can bet the Lt in charge of that platoon got a Silver. Whether he earned it or not.

I knew lots of good officers and I knew lots of bad ones. They all walked away with medals. So kerry's silver star does not impress me. What I really find aggravating about him is his purple hearts. Only one of which I feel he was half way qualified for. He used the three purple hearts and you go home rule to get out of there as fast as he could.

Did you get a silver star during your service mfm?

no he didn't. his job is to stay home with the women and children. in combat he would cost a lot of lives.

[manu1959]

Go read my other threads about Hanoi John McCain. There are Nam veterans who served with McCain who are willing to testify that he collaborated with the North Vietnamese.
And to say that McCain talked simply because he was tortured demeans all the POWs who endured harsh treatment and didn't talk. McCain simply wanted preferential treatment for himself.

listen to you.....all cozy in so cal at the beach .....passing judgement on shit you know nothing about.....

[retiredman]

I already asked her for proof. She didn't have any.

As for medals. mfm, who was not in Vietnam, makes a lot of assumptions about what went on. Every officer who served over there was basically guaranteed at least one medal. Bronze Stars being the most prominent. It was critical to get them if you wanted to be promoted. So they were handed out like candy for almost anything. There were many handed out to those that didn't earn them. A silver star on an officer just meant he probably did see some action. But they were usually awarded the medals for what their men did, not what they did. If members of a platoon were awarded Bronze Stars for valor you can bet the Lt in charge of that platoon got a Silver. Whether he earned it or not.

I knew lots of good officers and I knew lots of bad ones. They all walked away with medals. So kerry's silver star does not impress me. What I really find aggravating about him is his purple hearts. Only one of which I feel he was half way qualified for. He used the three purple hearts and you go home rule to get out of there as fast as he could.

Did you get a silver star during your service mfm?

I did not get a silver star during my service. your anti-officer bias is revealing, I think. My point stands. If you denigrate John Kerry's silver star, you denigrate all navy silver star winners. that is just a fact.

[manu1959]

I did not get a silver star during my service. your anti-officer bias is revealing, I think. My point stands. If you denigrate John Kerry's silver star, you denigrate all navy silver star winners. that is just a fact.

no you don't........if one then all......bullshit......

[Mr. P]

I did not get a silver star during my service. your anti-officer bias is revealing, I think. My point stands. If you denigrate John Kerry's silver star, you denigrate all navy silver star winners. that is just a fact.

I think you're missing that it's not the Silver Star being denigrated, it's JF Kerry.

[Gaffer]

I think you're missing that it's not the Silver Star being denigrated, it's JF Kerry.

That's exactly what he's missing.

[manu1959]

That's exactly what he's missing.

nah......he is missing way more than that.....

[Gaffer]

I did not get a silver star during my service. your anti-officer bias is revealing, I think. My point stands. If you denigrate John Kerry's silver star, you denigrate all navy silver star winners. that is just a fact.

I denigrate kerry. Not the medal. Somehow I knew you would have got a silver star. It's necessary for officer promotions. I don't have an officer bias. I just know how the officer corp works. And the politics involved. Apparently things didn't change much in the 80's.

[Silver]

Kerry looks in the mirror and sees Audie Murphy, and thinks we should see that image too, the 90 wonderboy--picking up medals like popcorn from a theater floor

[retiredman]

I denigrate kerry. Not the medal. Somehow I knew you would have got a silver star. It's necessary for officer promotions. I don't have an officer bias. I just know how the officer corp works. And the politics involved. Apparently things didn't change much in the 80's.

can you read? I do not have a silver star nor never claimed to have one.

Silver stars are not necessary for officer promotions. no medals are. And trust me.... I was in from 68-93 and they never were... and trust me, you really don't know how the officer corps works. I do.

[rppearso]

can you read? I do not have a silver star nor never claimed to have one.

Silver stars are not necessary for officer promotions. no medals are. And trust me.... I was in from 68-93 and they never were... and trust me, you really don't know how the officer corps works. I do.

And they don't really know what they are talking about, they just like to swear a lot and make inflammatory remarks and when someone pushes them into a corner with logic they lash out like children. You cant have a real debate with them because as soon as they are pushed in a corner they just talk about how you don't know what you are talking about without backing anything up, I met tons of people like this in the military, some cant cope in the civilian world, some have duel personalities because they want a good job and know they cant act like a shit bag on the job without getting fired and others are just normal people who did there time and function well in society and there are very few on this forum that are the later, mfm you seem to be one of the few, you may not agree with everything I say but at least you can articulate yourself and have a sensible discussion. People on this forum like to claim they are intelligent yet display acts of stupidity every time they post and im the one who works at the 7/11 lol.

Also you can only post one or 2 max points in any given post because if you write to much it confuses them and they lash out becasue a full blown paragraph just blows there mind, they may cobble together a few of your words to string together a point you never made and then argue something you never said which is actually libel and is a shitty dishonorable thing to do.

[Nukeman]

And they don't really know what they are talking about, they just like to swear a lot and make inflammatory remarks and when someone pushes them into a corner with logic they lash out like children. You cant have a real debate with them because as soon as they are pushed in a corner they just talk about how you don't know what you are talking about without backing anything up, I met tons of people like this in the military, some cant cope in the civilian world, some have duel personalities because they want a good job and know they cant act like a shit bag on the job without getting fired and others are just normal people who did there time and function well in society and there are very few on this forum that are the later, mfm you seem to be one of the few, you may not agree with everything I say but at least you can articulate yourself and have a sensible discussion. People on this forum like to claim they are intelligent yet display acts of stupidity every time they post and im the one who works at the 7/11 lol.

Also you can only post one or 2 max points in any given post because if you write to much it confuses them and they lash out becasue a full blown paragraph just blows there mind, they may cobble together a few of your words to string together a point you never made and then argue something you never said which is actually libel and is a shitty dishonorable thing to do.And here comes the penut gallary!!! You are such a moron!!!!!!:poke:

[theHawk]

I can't believe I've missed this doozy of a thread!

mfm, how can you say that anyone questioning a silver star or other medal is the equivlant to "pissing" on all those medals given to all other soldiers, yet you give a free pass to John Kerry himself for throwing them out? Is that not disrespectful? Your partisan double standards never cease to amaze. I'd say that physically throwing them out is alot more disrespectful than simplying pointing out that that person himself may had never deserved it in the first place. He pissed all over the honor of nam vets with his actions, why else do you think so many vets rose up to expose him during his campaign?

[retiredman]

I can't believe I've missed this doozy of a thread!

mfm, how can you say that anyone questioning a silver star or other medal is the equivlant to "pissing" on all those medals given to all other soldiers, yet you give a free pass to John Kerry himself for throwing them out? Is that not disrespectful? Your partisan double standards never cease to amaze. I'd say that physically throwing them out is alot more disrespectful than simplying pointing out that that person himself may had never deserved it in the first place. He pissed all over the honor of nam vets with his actions, why else do you think so many vets rose up to expose him during his campaign?
I don't give Kerry a free pass on anything. I think he did a terrible thing by throwing his medals away. I understand that there were strong feelings about the Vietnam war.... there still are....but that does not excuse throwing away his medals. Nonetheless... the Navy has a strict process for determining eligibility for decorations. To suggest that Kerry's silver star somehow was given to him undeservedly certainly calls into question the integrity of that process. That's a fact.

[glockmail]

.... And trust me.... .... and trust me, ......:lol: :lol:

[retiredman]

:lol: :lol:

isn't that what YOU tell the young boys on the ski slope?:laugh2:

[theHawk]

I don't give Kerry a free pass on anything. I think he did a terrible thing by throwing his medals away. I understand that there were strong feelings about the Vietnam war.... there still are....but that does not excuse throwing away his medals. Nonetheless... the Navy has a strict process for determining eligibility for decorations. To suggest that Kerry's silver star somehow was given to him undeservedly certainly calls into question the integrity of that process. That's a fact.

So I take it you will defend John McCain when they come out swinging against his war record.

Then again, that wouldn't benefit your goldenboy would it?

[retiredman]

So I take it you will defend John McCain when they come out swinging against his war record.

Then again, that wouldn't benefit your goldenboy would it?

I will most certainly defend John McCain's war record and his service to our country in and out of uniform. He absolutely deserves the gratitude of our nation for that service.

I would not be surprised, however, to see former vietnam pow's for truth or some such organization rise up to attack him, and while I would never condone such an attack, I can understand how some might feel that the republican party deserves to have their candidate given the same Rovian style treatment that Kerry or Cleland got. What goes around comes around.

[jimnyc]

I don't give Kerry a free pass on anything. I think he did a terrible thing by throwing his medals away. I understand that there were strong feelings about the Vietnam war.... there still are....but that does not excuse throwing away his medals. Nonetheless... the Navy has a strict process for determining eligibility for decorations. To suggest that Kerry's silver star somehow was given to him undeservedly certainly calls into question the integrity of that process. That's a fact.

Your premise is that the military has a strict process for determining who gets their medals - as they do in determining who has completed their active duty. Have you ever bashed Bush for supposedly not completing his active duty obligation to the military, on this very board? And if so, would you not be denigrating every man or woman who has successfully completed their active duty by calling into question the integrity there as well?

[theHawk]

I will most certainly defend John McCain's war record and his service to our country in and out of uniform. He absolutely deserves the gratitude of our nation for that service.

I would not be surprised, however, to see former vietnam pow's for truth or some such organization rise up to attack him, and while I would never condone such an attack, I can understand how some might feel that the republican party deserves to have their candidate given the same Rovian style treatment that Kerry or Cleland got. What goes around comes around.

You seem to be contradicting yourself. You say you will defend them but turn around and say "I can understand" why some would want to do unto the Republicans what they did to Kerry.

You're already making excuses for the attackers. :poke:

[retiredman]

You seem to be contradicting yourself. You say you will defend them but turn around and say "I can understand" why some would want to do unto the Republicans what they did to Kerry.

You're already making excuses for the attackers. :poke:


not so.

I will find such attacks despicable...

Unfortunately, I also find them inevitable

[jimnyc]

not so.

I will find such attacks despicable...

Unfortunately, I also find them inevitable

You apparently skimmed right by my post, so I'll ask again...

Your premise is that the military has a strict process for determining who gets their medals - as they do in determining who has completed their active duty. Have you ever bashed Bush for supposedly not completing his active duty obligation to the military, on this very board? And if so, would you not be denigrating every man or woman who has successfully completed their active duty by calling into question the integrity there as well?

[retiredman]

You apparently skimmed right by my post, so I'll ask again...

Your premise is that the military has a strict process for determining who gets their medals - as they do in determining who has completed their active duty. Have you ever bashed Bush for supposedly not completing his active duty obligation to the military, on this very board? And if so, would you not be denigrating every man or woman who has successfully completed their active duty by calling into question the integrity there as well?

first... there is a significant difference between the procedural integrity of the United States Navy and state run national guards.

second... it is a matter of FACT that Bush did not receive his flight physical AS ORDERED, and thus lost his flight status and wasting the enormous costs of training him...it is a matter of FACT that he was let out of his national guard obligation EARLY in order to attend Harvard Business School while his peers were being sent to serve - and die - in Vietnam.

third... I would call into question the patriotism of ANY american who dodged a flight physical purposely lost flight status and then skipped out of their obligated service early while our country was at war... not merely Bush.

[theHawk]

not so.

I will find such attacks despicable...

Unfortunately, I also find them inevitable

You're full of shit. Why is it that you didn't find gabby's attack so despicable? And then you even go onto to attack the namvet that sticks up for McCain. -



Go read my other threads about Hanoi John McCain. There are Nam veterans who served with McCain who are willing to testify that he collaborated with the North Vietnamese.
And to say that McCain talked simply because he was tortured demeans all the POWs who endured harsh treatment and didn't talk. McCain simply wanted preferential treatment for himself.


that's an outright fucking lie


are you suggesting that every American POW from Nam signed a "confession" like McCain did?



Not once have you called out Gabby for her bullshit about McCain.

[glockmail]

isn't that what YOU tell the young boys on the ski slope?:laugh2:
What young boys?

[jimnyc]

first... there is a significant difference between the procedural integrity of the United States Navy and state run national guards.

second... it is a matter of FACT that Bush did not receive his flight physical AS ORDERED, and thus lost his flight status and wasting the enormous costs of training him...it is a matter of FACT that he was let out of his national guard obligation EARLY in order to attend Harvard Business School while his peers were being sent to serve - and die - in Vietnam.

third... I would call into question the patriotism of ANY american who dodged a flight physical purposely lost flight status and then skipped out of their obligated service early while our country was at war... not merely Bush.

Well, since you apply different standards, you will have to accept my standards. Kerry is a lying piece of dog shit and didn't deserve his medal. I denigrate his medal without thinking twice. I think the Navy must obviously have had a few drunkards passing out medals during Kerry's short stint.

[retiredman]

Well, since you apply different standards, you will have to accept my standards. Kerry is a lying piece of dog shit and didn't deserve his medal. I denigrate his medal without thinking twice. I think the Navy must obviously have had a few drunkards passing out medals during Kerry's short stint.

Kerry's short stint was contemporaneous with my service and with at least one of my decorations. I most certainly do not have to accept your denigration of the branch of our military in which I served.

[glockmail]

I just read John Kerry's Silver Star citation and almost fell out of my chair. Having served at one time as an "awards and decorations officer", which is an additional duty assignment for staff officers, I know full well how these citations can be colored and worded to change an "oh no!" into a "attaboy." That is what happened with Kerry's situation. He probably would have been disciplined for endangering his boat and crew, but instead, because of his political connections, they gave him what is known as a "coverup award." One of the oldest tricks in the military book is that if you have a "favorite son" or coat-tail hangar and he screws up, rewrite the reports and give him an award before he gets court-martialed. That appears to be what happened here.http://www.newswithviews.com/Craig/roberts1.htm

[Gaffer]

http://www.newswithviews.com/Craig/roberts1.htm

Bingo.

[jimnyc]

Kerry's short stint was contemporaneous with my service and with at least one of my decorations. I most certainly do not have to accept your denigration of the branch of our military in which I served.

Umm, actually, you do! Just like I have to accept your opinions about GWB, you have little alternative but to accept the fact that I think Kerry is a liar, a fraud and didn't deserve ANY of his medals.

[glockmail]

Bingo. Kerry must have shit his pants so bad that he steered the boat the wrong way and beached it. :laugh2:

[retiredman]

Umm, actually, you do! Just like I have to accept your opinions about GWB, you have little alternative but to accept the fact that I think Kerry is a liar, a fraud and didn't deserve ANY of his medals.

you can think what you want about Kerry... when you denigrate the navy itself, I can take issue, and do.

[jimnyc]

you can think what you want about Kerry... when you denigrate the navy itself, I can take issue, and do.

The fact that you see it as an insult to the ENTIRE navy and ALL medal recipients is YOUR problem. He is a proven liar and a proven fraud.

[Gaffer]

you can think what you want about Kerry... when you denigrate the navy itself, I can take issue, and do.

Neither kerry nor you represent the Navy. So no one is denigrating the Navy. We are denigrating you and kerry. You can take issue with it all you want. There's nothing you can do about it.

[theHawk]

you can think what you want about Kerry... when you denigrate the navy itself, I can take issue, and do.

Thats funny how if someone denigrates you or Kerry, its an issue. Yet you have zero problems lambasting Bush or any of the many conservative vets (like myself).

Your acting as if no one in the uniform has ever disgraced the uniform. We all know there have been many who disgraced the uniform. There are troops that have broken laws and been dishonorably discharged, there are shitbags who have betrayed our country that have worn the uniform. Calling those asswipes out for what they are is in no way disrespectful the vast majority that served with integrity. In fact, not separating those individuals out would tarnish the military as a whole.

[retiredman]

Thats funny how if someone denigrates you or Kerry, its an issue. Yet you have zero problems lambasting Bush or any of the many conservative vets (like myself).

Your acting as if no one in the uniform has ever disgraced the uniform. We all know there have been many who disgraced the uniform. There are troops that have broken laws and been dishonorably discharged, there are shitbags who have betrayed our country that have worn the uniform. Calling those asswipes out for what they are is in no way disrespectful the vast majority that served with integrity. In fact, not separating those individuals out would tarnish the military as a whole.


I have never denigrated your service.

I do not consider being awarded the silver star as "disgracing the uniform". I am sorry that you do.

[retiredman]

Neither kerry nor you represent the Navy. So no one is denigrating the Navy. We are denigrating you and kerry. You can take issue with it all you want. There's nothing you can do about it.

when you suggest that the navy gives away silver stars to folks who don't deserve them, you are denigrating the navy. that's a fact. I realize that there is little I can do other than hold you in disdain for such an opinion and to devalue the rest of your opinions accordingly.

[theHawk]

I do not consider being awarded the silver star as "disgracing the uniform". I am sorry that you do.

When did I ever say being awarded a silver star is "disgracing the uniform"?

Don't put words in my mouth you sack of shit.


The act of receiving any medal or award is not a disgrace.
The way a person himself ACTS is a reflection on whether or not he is a "disgrace" to the uniform. What John Kerry did was an absolute disgrace, to the uniform, to the medals he got, and to this country. Its been documented, and its on film. No medal is going to erase that truth, no matter how much you'd like it to.

The way YOU act, with your lies and trash you spew, is a reflection of how much of a disgrace you are. You have absolutely no integrity.

[glockmail]

when you suggest that the navy gives away silver stars to folks who don't deserve them, you are denigrating the navy. that's a fact. ..... How do you justify Kerry's Silver Star when thousands of Marines, Soldiers and Sailors did similar acts on a daily basis?


Looking at Kerry's citation it appears we grunts were short-changed by Zumwalt and his staffers. If we went back into unit diarys and radio logs, perhaps we could now start issuing those long-deserved Silver Stars to all the Marines and Soldiers and Sailors who have successfully fought in an ambush! http://www.newswithviews.com/Craig/roberts1.htm

[retiredman]

How do you justify Kerry's Silver Star when thousands of Marines, Soldiers and Sailors did similar acts on a daily basis?

http://www.newswithviews.com/Craig/roberts1.htm

thousands of marines, soldiers, sailors and coasties were awarded the silver star for valor in Vietnam.

There were undoubtedly some who served and performed feats of great heroism that went unnoticed. That should not detract from those who were noticed.

What Kerry did was worthy of a silver star or the Navy wouldn't have given him one. period. To piss on Kerry's silver star because of what he did after he came back from Vietnam is, nonetheless, pissing on all the other silver star winners. that is a fact.

[rppearso]

When did I ever say being awarded a silver star is "disgracing the uniform"?

Don't put words in my mouth you sack of shit.


The act of receiving any medal or award is not a disgrace.
The way a person himself ACTS is a reflection on whether or not he is a "disgrace" to the uniform. What John Kerry did was an absolute disgrace, to the uniform, to the medals he got, and to this country. Its been documented, and its on film. No medal is going to erase that truth, no matter how much you'd like it to.

The way YOU act, with your lies and trash you spew, is a reflection of how much of a disgrace you are. You have absolutely no integrity.

So is the way you are acting now the way of honor, maybe thats where I went wrong when I was in the military, I dident call people sacks of shit enough or spew out a bunch of swear words.

[retiredman]

When did I ever say being awarded a silver star is "disgracing the uniform"?

Don't put words in my mouth you sack of shit.


The act of receiving any medal or award is not a disgrace.
The way a person himself ACTS is a reflection on whether or not he is a "disgrace" to the uniform. What John Kerry did was an absolute disgrace, to the uniform, to the medals he got, and to this country. Its been documented, and its on film. No medal is going to erase that truth, no matter how much you'd like it to.

The way YOU act, with your lies and trash you spew, is a reflection of how much of a disgrace you are. You have absolutely no integrity.

what Kerry did after he got back has ZERO to do with whether he deserved his silver star.

[Yurt]

thousands of marines, soldiers, sailors and coasties were awarded the silver star for valor in Vietnam.

There were undoubtedly some who served and performed feats of great heroism that went unnoticed. That should not detract from those who were noticed.

What Kerry did was worthy of a silver star or the Navy wouldn't have given him one. period. To piss on Kerry's silver star because of what he did after he came back from Vietnam is, nonetheless, pissing on all the other silver star winners. that is a fact.

So my question is what did Kerry do that was above and beyond what all of us Marine grunts did as an everyday course of business? Or our Army infantrymen for that matter?

Now let's write up this same action as it may have appeared in a charge sheet of "charges and specifications" for court martial if someone at the time decided to prosecute Kerry for endangering his boat and crew:

For haphazardly endangering a US Naval vessel and crew while in action while serving with Coastal Division ELEVEN. While engaged in armed conflict with Viet Cong insurgents in An Xuyen Provence, Republic of Vietnam on 28 February, 1969, Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY was serving as Officer in Charge of Patrol Craft Fast 94 and Officer in Tactical Command of a three boat mission. As the force approached the target area on the narrow Dong Chung River, all units came under intense automatic weapons and small arms fire from an entrenched enemy force less that fifty-feet away. Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY, instead of following standard operating procedures by withdrawing from the area as quickly as possible, instead ordered his boat to attack as all units opened fire. Further, he beached his vessel directly in front of the enemy ambushers, endangering both his boat and his crew.


http://www.newswithviews.com/Craig/roberts1.htm

[retiredman]

So my question is what did Kerry do that was above and beyond what all of us Marine grunts did as an everyday course of business? Or our Army infantrymen for that matter?



I didn't know you were a marine grunt yurt or were old enough to have served in Vietnam.

but regardless of that new information about your vietnam service, I answered your question already. Many heroic acts by "you Marine grunts" were deserving of awards.... that does not diminish the heroism of those who WERE recognized.

Do tell us about what all of you grunts did in Nam.... I'd love to hear about it.

[Silver]

Kerry is and was a political opportunist....he picked up medals like a child picks up seashells on a beach....
That fact alone makes his record suspect.
He had others take movies of him "in action" for our future viewing as he ran for President, how convenient...

How many true war heroes boast of their exploits...???

He didn't have one or two or 5 or 10 come out and speak against him, he had over a hundred--over a hundred of his shipmates question his 90 days of spectacular duty in collecting medals

His medals rewritten up for no particular reason we know of..and embellished alittle each time???

[retiredman]

Kerry is and was a political opportunist....he picked up medals like a child picks up seashells on a beach....
That fact alone makes his record suspect.
He had others take movies of him "in action" for our future viewing as he ran for President....how convenient...

How many true war heroes boast of their exploits...???

He didn't have one or two or 5 or 10 come out and speak against him, ....he had over a hundred....over a hundred of his shipmates question his 90 days of spectacular duty in collecting medals.....

he didn't have a "hundred shipmates" in Nam... His crew remans devoted to him.

if you claim that the navy gives away silver stars, you piss on every navy man who won one. period.

[namvet]

Kerry's Silver Star? John Kerry does not want to address the serious charges about his "hero" status because there are BIG holes in his embellished service record
source (source)

3 medals in 4 months???? ah come on. Audie Murphy and SGT York combined were not that good. its proof he went over for just 1 purpose. politics for the Kennedys. grab those medals then beat it back home. this had nothing at all to do with serving the country. its was serving kerry.
and what about his discharge. we demaned it be made public. he refused. then realizing his tits in a ringer he goes to Klinton and gets him to change it. to what???? from what????

kerry's discharge (kerry's discharge)


According to the secretary of the Navy's document, the "authority of reference" this board was using in considering Mr. Kerry's record was "Title 10, U.S. Code Section 1162 and 1163. "This section refers to the grounds for involuntary separation from the service. What was being reviewed, then, was Mr. Kerry's involuntary separation from the service. And it couldn't have been an honorable discharge, or there would have been no point in any review at all. The review was likely held to improve Mr. Kerry's status of discharge from a less than honorable discharge to an honorable discharge.

[glockmail]

....

if you claim that the navy gives away silver stars, you piss on every navy man who won one. period. The claim here is that Kerry used his political contacts to get one. The Navy is just like any other federal organization- heavily influenced by politics and political power brokers.

[Silver]

In my opinion, its Kerry that denigrates those brave soldiers that actually earned their awards and HAVE THE SCARS and lost limbs and deformed bodies to prove it.....maybe his actions after he returned tainted my opinions some, that could be....he just seems like a phony from the start...and his actions do nothing to erase that impression....on the contrary, they seem to reinforce that image...

[Yurt]

I didn't know you were a marine grunt yurt or were old enough to have served in Vietnam.

but regardless of that new information about your vietnam service, I answered your question already. Many heroic acts by "you Marine grunts" were deserving of awards.... that does not diminish the heroism of those who WERE recognized.

Do tell us about what all of you grunts did in Nam.... I'd love to hear about it.

dumbass...read the link

[retiredman]

The claim here is that Kerry used his political contacts to get one. The Navy is just like any other federal organization- heavily influenced by politics and political power brokers.
how would you know?

I disagree and I was in the organization for 25 years.

[retiredman]

dumbass...read the link

put it in quotes.

[Yurt]

put it in quotes.

piss off moron...its not my fault you can't see the context even after glock posted the same link

[retiredman]

piss off moron...its not my fault you can't see the context even after glock posted the same link


I have never put you in the same league as glock. I guess I should.

[glockmail]

how would you know?

I disagree and I was in the organization for 25 years. I know because I was very involved with extracting records from the Naval hospital and the VA for my uncle.

You have a very weak argument claiming that the Navy would not be subject to political pressure from a non other than a Kennedy. :laugh2:

[glockmail]

I have never put you in the same league as glock. I guess I should.
Yes, we both see the plain truth.

[Yurt]

I have never put you in the same league as glock. I guess I should.

you being intellectually dishonest, again...you knew right away that i am not old enough to have served in nam, yet you acted like a was making the claim i did :poke:

[actsnoblemartin]

you know mfm would talk out of both sides of his mouth, the problem is he only has one side: stupidity

[theHawk]

So is the way you are acting now the way of honor, maybe thats where I went wrong when I was in the military, I dident call people sacks of shit enough or spew out a bunch of swear words.

Yes, I call on bullshit when I see it, and call it as such. I didn't know you were so sensitive to swear words. I'll try to keep a lid on it to make you feel more comfortable.

[retiredman]

I know because I was very involved with extracting records from the Naval hospital and the VA for my uncle.

You have a very weak argument claiming that the Navy would not be subject to political pressure from a non other than a Kennedy. :laugh2:

OK...So I served as a commissioned officer for 21 years after attending the Naval Academy....and you... you helped your uncle get his records from the VA hospital.

yeah...those are comparable levels of experience with the Navy.

NOT!:laugh2:

and what is a "non other than a Kennedy"? For that matter, what is a "non", and who do they(it) exert political pressure?

[Silver]

OK...So I served as a commissioned officer for 21 years after attending the Naval Academy....and you... you helped your uncle get his records from the VA hospital.

yeah...those are comparable levels of experience with the Navy.

NOT!:laugh2:

and what is a "non other than a Kennedy"? For that matter, what is a "non", and who do they(it) exert political pressure?

All right-----you never disappoint

It this doesn't work go for his use of Upper case letters and inappropriate punctuation and mis-spellings__ go man go!

[retiredman]

All right-----you never disappoint

It this doesn't work go for his use of Upper case letters and inappropriate punctuation and mis-spellings__ go man go!

I do not understand what he was trying to say.... and still don't.

please enlighten me - and feel free to misspell and poorly punctuate your attempt at enlightenment

[Psychoblues]

Those that post about Viet Nam and show absolutely they have no experience in the theatre are nothing more than poots in the wind.

Viet Nam was an experiment in American wrong headedness. Sad, very sad.

[glockmail]

OK...So I served as a commissioned officer for 21 years after attending the Naval Academy....and you... you helped your uncle get his records from the VA hospital.

yeah...those are comparable levels of experience with the Navy.

NOT!:laugh2:

and what is a "non other than a Kennedy"? For that matter, what is a "non", and who do they(it) exert political pressure?
You have a very weak argument claiming that the Navy would not be subject to political pressure from a none other than a Kennedy.:finger3:

[glockmail]

[P]lease enlighten me - and feel free to misspell and poorly punctuate your attempt at enlightenment[.] :finger3:

[retiredman]

You have a very weak argument claiming that the Navy would not be subject to political pressure from a none other than a Kennedy.:finger3:
and you have a very silly argument claiming that your trip to the VA to get records for your uncle gives you a comparable understanding of the Navy to someone who served an entire career. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that the sole surviving Kennedy brother - a junior senator from MA - exerted any influence on the career of a young LTJG from his state.

[glockmail]

and you have a very silly argument claiming that your trip to the VA to get records for your uncle gives you a comparable understanding of the Navy to someone who served an entire career. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that the sole surviving Kennedy brother - a junior senator from MA - exerted any influence on the career of a young LTJG from his state.

On political influence:


The Personal Casualty Report from that day indicates that Kerry suffered from a slight shrapnel wound to the buttocks and a bruise on his right forearm, but the citation report claims Kerry suffered a wound to his forearm that was bleeding and in pain. Kerry's skipper, Lt. Commander Grant Hibbard, told the Boston Globe that Kerry's "wounds" were too minor to qualify for a Purple Heart. Nor was it clear to him that Kerry's boat had even come under direct enemy fire. Hibbard refused to submit Kerry's name, but Kerry went around him. Hibbard told the Globe he received some correspondence about it, and rather than take the heat, he stopped resisting. "I finally said," Hibbard told the Globe, "if that's what happened...okay. Do whatever you want...Obviously he got [the medals]. I don't know how."

…

The American people need to decide in their own minds whether or not Lt. jg John F. Kerry deserved the citations he received in Vietnam; or if he created—as his critics claim—a citation mill specifically de designed to recommend medals for himself and his crew. Clearly, Kerry's superiors seemed to think well of him. But it must be noted that Kerry, as a member of a Bay State blueblood family with important political connections, had enough clout through his family to impact the careers of his superior officers—even as a lowly junior grade lieutenant. There is no doubt his commanding officers knew that as well. So, the endorsements of his superior officers may be discounted as politically biased.

http://www.newswithviews.com/Ryter/jon34.htm

On Kerry’s affiliation with the Kennedy family:

In the summer after his graduation from boarding school at St. Paul's in New Hampshire, he had kept a date with an occasional girlfriend, Janet Auchincloss, Jacqueline Kennedy's half-sister, at Hammersmith Farm, the Auchincloss estate in Rhode Island.
There Mr. Kerry met John F. Kennedy, his political idol; a few weeks later, he watched the America's Cup race with the president's party aboard the Navy destroyer Joseph P. Kennedy.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0DE7DF173BF935A35754C0A9629C8B 63

[retiredman]

oh...I see. YOu belong to the RSR school of evidence. Editorials are fact in your world.

But it must be noted that Kerry, as a member of a Bay State blueblood family with important political connections, had enough clout through his family to impact the careers of his superior officers—even as a lowly junior grade lieutenant. There is no doubt his commanding officers knew that as well.

that is unsupported bullshit. the navy simply does not work that way. senior officers in the navy would not fake awards documentation for a young JO for fear of attacks on their own careers by politicians...

[PostmodernProphet]

Holy Time Warp, Batman....why is this thread about Kerry and Bush?

[glockmail]

oh...I see. YOu belong to the RSR school of evidence. Editorials are fact in your world.

But it must be noted that Kerry, as a member of a Bay State blueblood family with important political connections, had enough clout through his family to impact the careers of his superior officers—even as a lowly junior grade lieutenant. There is no doubt his commanding officers knew that as well.

that is unsupported bullshit. the navy simply does not work that way. senior officers in the navy would not fake awards documentation for a young JO for fear of attacks on their own careers by politicians...

The portions of the article cited includes quotes from Kerry's skipper, Lt. Commander Grant Hibbard. Any editorializing comes later in that article.

Apparently the Navy is subject to the same political shenanigans as any other government agency that I have been involved with. Or am I supposed to believe not, simply because you say otherwise?

[glockmail]

Holy Time Warp, Batman....why is this thread about Kerry and Bush?
manlivesinshame simply can't get away from defending his boy Kerry.

[retiredman]

The portions of the article cited includes quotes from Kerry's skipper, Lt. Commander Grant Hibbard. Any editorializing comes later in that article.

Apparently the Navy is subject to the same political shenanigans as any other government agency that I have been involved with. Or am I supposed to believe not, simply because you say otherwise?

and yet Hibbard claims absolutely no political pressure was put on HIM by the Kennedys.

odd

[glockmail]

and yet Hibbard claims absolutely no political pressure was put on HIM by the Kennedys.

odd

Only the most naïve would think it to be odd for a CO to avoid having to “take the heat” on an obvious political maneuver that he has no hope of preventing.


Hibbard refused to submit Kerry's name, but Kerry went around him. Hibbard told the Globe he received some correspondence about it, and rather than take the heat, he stopped resisting.

Who do you suppose Kerry contacted to get “around” Hibbard? It would be interesting to see the correspondence that Hibbard received about the issue.

Of course, Kerry could unseal his records and shed some light on this if he wanted to.

[retiredman]

Only the most naïve would think it to be odd for a CO to avoid having to “take the heat” on an obvious political maneuver that he has no hope of preventing.

Who do you suppose Kerry contacted to get “around” Hibbard? It would be interesting to see the correspondence that Hibbard received about the issue.

Of course, Kerry could unseal his records and shed some light on this if he wanted to.

all baseless suppositions.

Kerry's SF 180 was signed.

[glockmail]

all baseless suppositions.

Kerry's SF 180 was signed. SF 180 merely gets the records to Kerry. When will the public be allowed to see them?

[retiredman]

SF 180 merely gets the records to Kerry. When will the public be allowed to see them?
he released them to his newspaper of record. you'll need to ask them.

[glockmail]

he released them to his newspaper of record. you'll need to ask them.
Looks like he cleaned out the file cabinet before releasing the record: "The file includes a previously reported reference to Kerry being treated for the wound and that he was awarded the Purple Heart, but it does not address the details of the combat that night. No after-action report for the incident has been found." http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2005/06/07/kerry_allows_navy_release_of_military_medical_reco rds/

[retiredman]

Not even close. "Kerry refuses to release more records" http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/articles/2004/04/20/kerry_refuses_to_release_more_records/

you story is from april 2004. :lame2:

He signed his SF180 after that.

[glockmail]

Try again. :lol:

[retiredman]

Try again. :lol:


why? your lame story is from april 2004. Kerry signed his SF180 a year later and released his military records to his newspaper of record. if you would like a look, ask them.

[glockmail]

why? your lame story is from april 2004. Kerry signed his SF180 a year later and released his military records to his newspaper of record. if you would like a look, ask them. The "lame" Globe article is from June 2005. "No after-action report for the incident has been found." :pee:

[retiredman]

from your link:

"Kerry refuses to release more records
By Michael Kranish, Globe Staff | April 20, 2004"

[glockmail]

from your link:

"Kerry refuses to release more records
By Michael Kranish, Globe Staff | April 20, 2004"

That's your link. Here's more on Kerry:


"Many took exception to the Purple Hearts awarded to Kerry. His 'wounds' were suspect, so insignificant as to not be worthy of the award of such a medal. That Kerry would seek the Purple Heart for such 'wounds' is a mockery of the intent of the Purple Heart and an abridgement of the valor of those to whom the Purple Heart had been awarded with justification."

WILLIAM FRANKE

Swift Boat veteran
http://johnkerry-08.com/war/unfit_for_command_03.php

[retiredman]

Looks like he cleaned out the file cabinet before releasing the record: "The file includes a previously reported reference to Kerry being treated for the wound and that he was awarded the Purple Heart, but it does not address the details of the combat that night. No after-action report for the incident has been found." http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2005/06/07/kerry_allows_navy_release_of_military_medical_reco rds/

from your second link:
"On May 20, Kerry signed a document called Standard Form 180, authorizing the Navy to send an ''undeleted" copy of his ''complete military service record and medical record" to the Globe."

I like how you edited your post when I shoved the april 04 date in your face! :lol:

like I said... the Navy sent the entire package to the Globe. If you'd like to examine those records personally, fly on up to Boston and ask them

[glockmail]

this is priceless:
WHAT REALLY HAPPENED

The truth is that at the time of this incident Kerry was an officer in command (OinC) under training, aboard the skimmer using the call sign "Robin" on the operation, with now-Rear Admiral William Schachte using the call sign "Batman," who was also on the skimmer. After Kerry's M-16 jammed, Kerry picked up an M-79 grenade launcher and fired a grenade too close, causing a tiny piece of shrapnel (one to two centimeters) to barely stick in his arm. Schachte berated Kerry for almost putting someone's eye out. There was no hostile fire of any kind, nor did Kerry on the way back mention to PCF OinC Mike Voss, who commanded the PCF that had towed the skimmer, that he was wounded. There was no report of any hostile fire that day (as would be required), nor do the records at Cam Ranh Bay reveal any such hostile fire. No other records reflect any hostile fire. There is also no casualty report, as would have been required had there actually been a casualty.

Following "the most frightening night" of his life, to the surprise of both Schachte and the treating doctor, Louis Letson, Kerry managed to keep the tiny hanging fragment barely embedded in his arm until he arrived at sickbay a number of miles away and a considerable time later, where he was examined by Dr. Letson. Dr. Letson, who has never forgotten the experience, reported it to his Democratic county chairman early in the 2004 primary campaign. When Kerry appeared at sickbay, Dr. Letson asked, "Why are you here?" in surprise, observing Kerry's unimpressive scratch. Kerry answered, "I've been wounded by hostile fire." Accompanying crewmen then told Dr. Letson that Kerry had wounded himself. Dr. Letson used tweezers to remove the tiny fragment, which he identified as shrapnel like that from an M-79 (not from a rifle bullet, etc.), and put a small bandage on Kerry's arm.

The following morning Kerry appeared at the office of Coastal Division 14 Commander Grant Hibbard and applied for the Purple Heart. Hibbard, who had learned from Schachte of the absence of hostile fire and self-infliction of the "wound" by Kerry himself, looked down at the tiny scratch (which he said was smaller than a rose thorn prick) and turned down the award since there was no hostile fire.13
http://johnkerry-08.com/war/unfit_for_command_03.php

[glockmail]

Holy Time Warp, Batman....why is this thread about Kerry and Bush? How ironic. :laugh2:

On the night of December 2-3, we conducted one of these operations, and Lt. (jg) Kerry accompanied me. Our call sign for that operation was "Batman." I have no independent recollection of the identity of the enlisted man, who was operating the outboard motor. Sometime during the early morning hours, I thought I detected some movement inland. At the time we were so close to land that we could hear water lapping on the shoreline. I fired a hand-held flare, and upon it bursting and illuminating the surrounding area, I thought I saw movement. I immediately opened fire with my M-60. It jammed after a brief burst. Lt. (jg) Kerry also opened fire with his M-16 on automatic, firing in the direction of my tracers. His weapon also jammed. As I was trying to clear my weapon, I heard the distinctive sound of the M-79 being fired and turned to see Lt. (jg) Kerry holding the M-79 from which he had just launched a round. We received no return fire of any kind nor were there any muzzle flashes from the beach. I directed the outboard motor operator to clear the area.

Upon returning to base, I informed my commanding officer, Lt. Cmdr. Grant Hibbard, of the events, informing him of the details of the operation and that we had received no enemy fire. I did not file an "after action" report, as one was only required when there was hostile fire. Soon thereafter, Lt. (jg) Kerry requested that he be put in for a Purple Heart as a result of a small piece of shrapnel removed from his arm that he attributed to the just-completed mission. I advised Lt. Cmdr. Hibbard that I could not support the request because there was no hostile fire. The shrapnel must have been a fragment from the M-79 that struck Lt. (jg) Kerry, because he had fired the M-79 too close to our boat. Lt. Cmdr. Hibbard denied Lt. (jg) Kerry's request. Lt. (jg) Kerry detached our division a few days later to be reassigned to another division. I departed Vietnam approximately three weeks later, and Lt. Cmdr. Hibbard followed shortly thereafter. It was not until years later that I was surprised to learn that Lt. (jg) Kerry had been awarded a Purple Heart for this night.

I did not see Lt. (jg) Kerry in person again for almost 20 years. Sometime in 1988, while I was on Capitol Hill, I ran into him in the basement of the Russell Senate Office Building. I was at that time a Rear Admiral and in uniform. He was about 20 paces away, waiting to catch the underground subway. In a fairly loud voice I called out to him, "Hey, John." He turned, looked at me, came over and said, "Batman!" We exchanged pleasantries for a few minutes, agreed to have lunch sometime in the future, and parted ways. We have not been together since that day.
[/quote]http://johnkerry-08.com/war/schachte.php

[Gaffer]

Damn, eyewitnesses are such a pain when your trying to convince people your a hero. Good find Glock, I gotta spread the rep.