Pentagon warns of June pay crunch for troops

[LiberalNation]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080506/pl_afp/usmilitarybudgetiraqafghanistan;_ylt=Ao6DS5hc9RMkg bU3cSmuV.IDW7oF

WASHINGTON (AFP) - The Pentagon warned Tuesday the US Army will not be able to pay its soldiers beyond June 15 unless Congress acts soon on a stalled request from the administration for war funding.

It was the latest salvo in a long-running impasse between the Democratic-controlled Congress and the administration over a 108-billion dollar request to fund US military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan in the 2008 fiscal year.

The pay crunch would be eased if Congress authorized funds to be moved from other accounts to pay soldiers, but the Pentagon is pressing for approval of the full budget request.

"We run out of money in order to pay soldiers after June 15 unless the Congress acts to pass the supplemental or provide us with the reprogramming authorities to move money within accounts," said Pentagon press secretary Geoff Morrell.

"We do not have the authorities right now to pay soldiers beyond June the 15," he told reporters.

US Defense Secretary Robert Gates last week sent a letter to members of Congress saying he was encouraged to hear they planned to act on the 2008 war funding bill by the Memorial Day holiday on May 26.

Morrell said congressional staffers were briefed on the budget situation earlier Tuesday.

"I know we have raised concerns about this issue before, but we are once again getting down to crunch time," he said.

"And unless Congress appropriates the 108 billion dollars in the next few weeks, most of our troops fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan could go without pay, and the critical progress they have achieved will be in jeopardy."

[rppearso]

I hope they dont pass it, you will see how much the executive branch really cares about its troops on what happens after it doesnt pass. This will teach alot of people a lesson that the american people dont support this war.

[DragonStryk72]

I hope they dont pass it, you will see how much the executive branch really cares about its troops on what happens after it doesnt pass. This will teach alot of people a lesson that the american people dont support this war.

Actually, it will simply destroy alot of innocent lives, and drive a bigger wedge. but it's good that you like that thought so much, cause that means they can't pay you either, jackass. Get ready for the unemployment line.

[Pale Rider]

I hope they dont pass it, you will see how much the executive branch really cares about its troops on what happens after it doesnt pass. This will teach alot of people a lesson that the american people dont support this war.

Whether executive branch does or doesn't care makes no difference. Why in the HELL punish the troops with no pay because the politicians want to use them as pawns in their power game?

Wrong... wrong... wrong.

[glockmail]

What Democrat Congressman is holding this back?

We should double soldier's pay, immediately.

[PostmodernProphet]

I hope they dont pass it, you will see how much the executive branch really cares about its troops on what happens after it doesnt pass. This will teach alot of people a lesson that the american people dont support this war.

why liberals should not be allowed to run a government.....

[rppearso]

Actually, it will simply destroy alot of innocent lives, and drive a bigger wedge. but it's good that you like that thought so much, cause that means they can't pay you either, jackass. Get ready for the unemployment line.

I am not in the military so I will keep on with the status quo. Technically the govenment does not have to pay troops but because alot of soldiers are hypocrites by nature they whine and cry about this issue and slam people like me. Who signed the dotted line, who is government issue, all this crap was touted before and now you change your tune, what a bunch of hypocrites you are. You signed the dotted line, they can stop loss you and stop your pay if they want to. Hey you guys are the ones who tout the signed on the dotted line argument not me and you have the nerve to bitch and cry about this issue. This really is quite commical.

[rppearso]

Whether executive branch does or doesn't care makes no difference. Why in the HELL punish the troops with no pay because the politicians want to use them as pawns in their power game?

Wrong... wrong... wrong.

Bush is the king and soldiers are the pawns, congress is just doing there job (half assed anyways because it will probably pass) to stop the american people from being rail roaded by a bad economy created by this war. Hey you signed the dotted line remember.

[Missileman]

I am not in the military so I will keep on with the status quo. Technically the govenment does not have to pay troops but because alot of soldiers are hypocrites by nature they whine and cry about this issue and slam people like me. Who signed the dotted line, who is government issue, all this crap was touted before and now you change your tune, what a bunch of hypocrites you are. You signed the dotted line, they can stop loss you and stop your pay if they want to. Hey you guys are the ones who tout the signed on the dotted line argument not me and you have the nerve to bitch and cry about this issue. This really is quite commical.

You have got to be the most ignorant person I've seen on this board...and let me tell you that surpassing some of totally clueless fucktards that have come and gone is a feat I thought impossible.

Military members sign a contract that includes payment for service. And if it comes to pass that the gutless politicians in DC drag their feet on the funding, the military, professionals that they are will continue to take care of business. They don't have and likely don't want the option of going on strike. So go right ahead and wish hardship on those who defend your right to be a stupid asshole! :fu:

[DragonStryk72]

I am not in the military so I will keep on with the status quo. Technically the govenment does not have to pay troops but because alot of soldiers are hypocrites by nature they whine and cry about this issue and slam people like me. Who signed the dotted line, who is government issue, all this crap was touted before and now you change your tune, what a bunch of hypocrites you are. You signed the dotted line, they can stop loss you and stop your pay if they want to. Hey you guys are the ones who tout the signed on the dotted line argument not me and you have the nerve to bitch and cry about this issue. This really is quite commical.

Actually, you heartless jackass, they can't. Yes, they can dock your pay for violating the UCMJ, but they cannot stop paying just cause. Also, the stop-lossing is illegal, as well, since we already "won" the war in Iraq, according to our own government. You claim you work on contract with the military, tell me, do you think they'll pay you when they can't even pay their own troops? Dig your head out of your ass, then post.

[82Marine89]

I am not in the military so I will keep on with the status quo. Technically the govenment does not have to pay troops but because alot of soldiers are hypocrites by nature they whine and cry about this issue and slam people like me. Who signed the dotted line, who is government issue, all this crap was touted before and now you change your tune, what a bunch of hypocrites you are. You signed the dotted line, they can stop loss you and stop your pay if they want to. Hey you guys are the ones who tout the signed on the dotted line argument not me and you have the nerve to bitch and cry about this issue. This really is quite commical.

Didn't you supposedly sign the dotted line? Did you accept a paycheck from Uncle Sam before you wet your panties and asked to go home to momma? Does that make you a hypocrite?

[Kathianne]

I am not in the military so I will keep on with the status quo. Technically the govenment does not have to pay troops but because alot of soldiers are hypocrites by nature they whine and cry about this issue and slam people like me. Who signed the dotted line, who is government issue, all this crap was touted before and now you change your tune, what a bunch of hypocrites you are. You signed the dotted line, they can stop loss you and stop your pay if they want to. Hey you guys are the ones who tout the signed on the dotted line argument not me and you have the nerve to bitch and cry about this issue. This really is quite commical.

Interesting coming from someone who 'signed up' and failed, in every way imaginable. Seriously, you win the fuktard of the decade. I'd hope you choke on a chicken or fishbone or something, but realize you probably will outlive Abraham.

[Mr. P]

You have got to be the most ignorant person I've seen on this board...and let me tell you that surpassing some of totally clueless fucktards that have come and gone is a feat I thought impossible.

Military members sign a contract that includes payment for service. And if it comes to pass that the gutless politicians in DC drag their feet on the funding, the military, professionals that they are will continue to take care of business. They don't have and likely don't want the option of going on strike. So go right ahead and wish hardship on those who defend your right to be a stupid asshole! :fu:

Thanks MM, you saved me the typing.

[Mr. P]

Didn't you supposedly sign the dotted line? Did you accept a paycheck from Uncle Sam before you wet your panties and asked to go home to momma? Does that make you a hypocrite?

He used disappearing ink to sign and then his makeup "ran" cuz of the tears.

[rppearso]

Wow what a string of red neck posts. Our sole coustomers are not the military, I work in oil and gas and everyone in the world needs it so im not to worried. As far as all the other mindless remarks whatever, no one wants to debate they just want to be idiot rednecks and maybe pretty soon you can be an idiot redneck with no paycheck because you signed on the dotted line. It doesnt matter if I signed the dotted line because I dont tout that as an excuse to have to put up with bull shit from idiots.

[rppearso]

Didn't you supposedly sign the dotted line? Did you accept a paycheck from Uncle Sam before you wet your panties and asked to go home to momma? Does that make you a hypocrite?

I dont tout the dotted line argument, you do. The dotted line does not mean anything to me. Yes I signed it but I dont support that anyone should have to honor it, you do. So now you guys are whining and crying, guess what you signed the dotted line so why dont you practice what you preach. Im not the one preaching about the dotted line. A contract has to involve both parties walking away happy, if not its a bogus contract. The answer to your question does not get any clearer than that.

[Gaffer]

I dont tout the dotted line argument, you do. The dotted line does not mean anything to me. Yes I signed it but I dont support that anyone should have to honor it, you do. So now you guys are whining and crying, guess what you signed the dotted line so why dont you practice what you preach. Im not the one preaching about the dotted line. A contract has to involve both parties walking away happy, if not its a bogus contract. The answer to your question does not get any clearer than that.

A contract is a contract. Makes no difference who's happy. You can only walk away if the other sides says its alright for you to do that. If they wanted to press the issue your fucked.

Once again your ignorance is showing.

[rppearso]

A contract is a contract. Makes no difference who's happy. You can only walk away if the other sides says its alright for you to do that. If they wanted to press the issue your fucked.

Once again your ignorance is showing.

You have really failed to address my main point which was I dont tout the dotted line argument thats what makes you the hypocrite and not me.

[Mr. P]

You have really failed to address my main point which was I dont tout the dotted line argument thats what makes you the hypocrite and not me.

Have a mortgage contract? Financed a car? Credit Card perhaps? Did you sign on the dotted line? Don't follow those "contracts" that YOU sign on that nasty dotted line and you'll be in court or declaring bankruptcy were you get to sign more contracts. IDIOT!

[Gaffer]

You have really failed to address my main point which was I dont tout the dotted line argument thats what makes you the hypocrite and not me.

Just how am I a hypocrite? Do you even understand what a hypocrite is? Do you understand what a legally binding contract is?

[rppearso]

Just how am I a hypocrite? Do you even understand what a hypocrite is? Do you understand what a legally binding contract is?

Yes I do, and its one that you signed and now your type are bitching and moaning about pay cuts. You want to throw the book at me because I got out but now your type are bitching, your bitching about the very thing you are so willing to throw the book at me for but oh its different now that it sucks for you thats what makes you a hypocrite (and I got out legitimately with a legitimate discharge BTW, so all this wash out AWOL bull shit does not even apply but I expect nothing less from military hardliners, if I dont take a bite of the cherrios out of the skull with you im a 2 bit piece of crap and you reach at straws to discredit people like me and where there are no straws to reach at you just flat make stuff up like with kerry your a schmuck and thats all there is to it). You only care about one thing, that everyone thinks like you and stays in the military until they die and support all military action as soon as someone decides to be a democrat or anti-war they could have been a medal of honor recipient with a bullet proof military record and you would spit on them and thats what makes you a piece of shit. Your type do not even deserve to be citizens and your the type that make the military shitty for everyone else. I had no problem with running 2 miles or anything else, it was dealing with pieces of shit like you combined with the mentally retarded president sending people to pointless war that I got out. Why dont you try throwing your clan uniform away and joining the discussion instead of shooting off at the mouth with posts that add no value to anything.

[Pale Rider]

Wow what a string of red neck posts. Our sole coustomers are not the military, I work in oil and gas and everyone in the world needs it so im not to worried. As far as all the other mindless remarks whatever, no one wants to debate they just want to be idiot rednecks and maybe pretty soon you can be an idiot redneck with no paycheck because you signed on the dotted line. It doesnt matter if I signed the dotted line because I dont tout that as an excuse to have to put up with bull shit from idiots.

YOU are the IDIOT, you worthless piece of ungrateful dog shit. What in the FUCK are you doing living in this country?

[Gaffer]

Yes I do, and its one that you signed and now your type are bitching and moaning about pay cuts. You want to throw the book at me because I got out but now your type are bitching, your bitching about the very thing you are so willing to throw the book at me for but oh its different now that it sucks for you thats what makes you a hypocrite (and I got out legitimately with a legitimate discharge BTW, so all this wash out AWOL bull shit does not even apply but I expect nothing less from military hardliners, if I dont take a bite of the cherrios out of the skull with you im a 2 bit piece of crap and you reach at straws to discredit people like me and where there are no straws to reach at you just flat make stuff up like with kerry your a schmuck and thats all there is to it). You only care about one thing, that everyone thinks like you and stays in the military until they die and support all military action as soon as someone decides to be a democrat or anti-war they could have been a medal of honor recipient with a bullet proof military record and you would spit on them and thats what makes you a piece of shit. Your type do not even deserve to be citizens and your the type that make the military shitty for everyone else. I had no problem with running 2 miles or anything else, it was dealing with pieces of shit like you combined with the mentally retarded president sending people to pointless war that I got out. Why dont you try throwing your clan uniform away and joining the discussion instead of shooting off at the mouth with posts that add no value to anything.

This has nothing to do with this thread. It's just a rant because your pissed off. You knew nothing about kerry until you brought it up here and were told about him. And you didn't like what you heard. So your into you name calling military bashing again. You know nothing about contracts. You know nothing about anything, except how to whine and complain. You hate the military, you hate America and deep down inside you hate yourself.

Your a loser and a quitter. So I'm not worried about you wanting to take my citizenship away. Quitters are never a threat to anyone.

[rppearso]

This has nothing to do with this thread. It's just a rant because your pissed off. You knew nothing about kerry until you brought it up here and were told about him. And you didn't like what you heard. So your into you name calling military bashing again. You know nothing about contracts. You know nothing about anything, except how to whine and complain. You hate the military, you hate America and deep down inside you hate yourself.

Your a loser and a quitter. So I'm not worried about you wanting to take my citizenship away. Quitters are never a threat to anyone.

So its ok for your type to bitch and moan about the contract you signed but its different when others do? Your right I dident know much about kerry before this thread, but the comments you said the swift boat veterans made against kerry is the same old shit degenerate military members did every day when I was in the military, there hate of democrats far far out weights there respect for there fellow service member even if he pulled a navy seal out of the water and kept him from being killed by the enemy, let me guess he becomes a traitor to the country by becoming anti-war and a democrat and so all his metals are down the toilet. Do you see why so many people are anti military and dont give people like you any credibility other than your cronies. I would even go so far to say people like you dont give two shits about freedom, your just a crazy asshole who gets off on killing people (or power trips and control) and the military lets you do it legally on a much more regular basis than being a police officer I met plenty of your type in basic training, you just use the fight for freedom argument to try to give yourself credibility in an open forum debate.

[rppearso]

YOU are the IDIOT, you worthless piece of ungrateful dog shit. What in the FUCK are you doing living in this country?

Why dont you back up your neg reps and put me in my place, I have already admitted I signed the contract and that I majorly fucked up and that signing up was one of the stupidest things I have done in my entire life. But you wont own up to it, in fact you are at a point where all you can do is name call. You want to talk about being a man why dont you own up.

[82Marine89]

Why dont you back up your neg reps and put me in my place, I have already admitted I signed the contract and that I majorly fucked up and that signing up was one of the stupidest things I have done in my entire life. But you wont own up to it, in fact you are at a point where all you can do is name call. You want to talk about being a man why dont you own up.

You are a spineless fuck. Plain and simple. You have no idea what the words Honor and Integrity mean. You signed a contract and you didn't honor it. You ran away and now because you weren't man enough to be and stay a member of the United Stated military you try to demean it and all that have served. Your words are meaningless. You are a worthless piece of crap that has no idea of what it takes to keep your word.

[Missileman]

So its ok for your type to bitch and moan about the contract you signed but its different when others do? Your right I dident know much about kerry before this thread, but the comments you said the swift boat veterans made against kerry is the same old shit degenerate military members did every day when I was in the military, there hate of democrats far far out weights there respect for there fellow service member even if he pulled a navy seal out of the water and kept him from being killed by the enemy, let me guess he becomes a traitor to the country by becoming anti-war and a democrat and so all his metals are down the toilet. Do you see why so many people are anti military and dont give people like you any credibility other than your cronies. I would even go so far to say people like you dont give two shits about freedom, your just a crazy asshole who gets off on killing people (or power trips and control) and the military lets you do it legally on a much more regular basis than being a police officer I met plenty of your type in basic training, you just use the fight for freedom argument to try to give yourself credibility in an open forum debate.

Military contractor who deals also with gas/oil industry my ass! You aren't literate enough.

You clerk at a 7/11 outside a military base maybe! Lemme guess...was the best job you could find after you got the big chicken dinner.

[Kathianne]

rppearso's posts try my patience, but what I've figured out when drawn by other's postings, is he joined the military, found a way out, knew he couldn't cut it, blames the military that he couldn't cut it, now posts on messageboards prodigiously, trying to prevent any others from perhaps succeeding where he failed. It makes him feel good about himself.

I must 2nd MB, there is no way he is a contractor.

[rppearso]

Yea it must be impossible for people with other view points to also be successful. All democrats must clerk at the 7/11 except for the ones in office of course. All comments posted since myn :lame2: Can no one answer a simple question. BTW not honoring stupid contracts is not dishonorable.

[Nukeman]

Yea it must be impossible for people with other view points to also be successful. All democrats must clerk at the 7/11 except for the ones in office of course. All comments posted since myn :lame2: Can no one answer a simple question. BTW not honoring stupid contracts is not dishonorable.Who getws to determine if they are stupid contract or not... It isn't just one sided as to how you "feel", it is how BOTH parties feel.

You obviously couldn't cut it you got out we fully understand that but you than continuosly BITCH about anything military. i suppose if you had a bad experience at the doctors office you would tell everyone NOT to go to the doctor????? Get over it!!!!!!!!!

[rppearso]

Who getws to determine if they are stupid contract or not... It isn't just one sided as to how you "feel", it is how BOTH parties feel.

You obviously couldn't cut it you got out we fully understand that but you than continuosly BITCH about anything military. i suppose if you had a bad experience at the doctors office you would tell everyone NOT to go to the doctor????? Get over it!!!!!!!!!

You really showed me there, :lame2:

[Nukeman]

You really showed me there, :lame2:

AS your so fond of saying answer the freaking question..... Or are you going to quit the board as well and tell everyone you know to stay away because we dont play to YOUR rules....

WHO GETS TO DETERMINE IF THE CONTRACT IS STUPID...... Only you? or both parties? is only your opinion the one that matters????? Or do you NOT want to debate your stance......:poke:

[rppearso]

AS your so fond of saying answer the freaking question..... Or are you going to quit the board as well and tell everyone you know to stay away because we dont play to YOUR rules....

WHO GETS TO DETERMINE IF THE CONTRACT IS STUPID...... Only you? or both parties? is only your opinion the one that matters????? Or do you NOT want to debate your stance......:poke:

Yes I do, and its one that you signed and now your type are bitching and moaning about pay cuts. You want to throw the book at me because I got out but now your type are bitching, your bitching about the very thing you are so willing to throw the book at me for but oh its different now that it sucks for you thats what makes you a hypocrite.

This is what I am debating period.

[Gaffer]

Yes I do, and its one that you signed and now your type are bitching and moaning about pay cuts. You want to throw the book at me because I got out but now your type are bitching, your bitching about the very thing you are so willing to throw the book at me for but oh its different now that it sucks for you thats what makes you a hypocrite.

This is what I am debating period.

Your wrong. Whether the contract is good or bad is a courts decision, not yours. And there aren't any pay cuts. There is only the usual dems trying to tell Bush what to do and trying to be commanders in chief. They will fail like they always have. And you will fail like you always have.

[rppearso]

Your wrong. Whether the contract is good or bad is a courts decision, not yours. And there aren't any pay cuts. There is only the usual dems trying to tell Bush what to do and trying to be commanders in chief. They will fail like they always have. And you will fail like you always have.

That does not answer anything :lame2:

[rppearso]

Your wrong. Whether the contract is good or bad is a courts decision, not yours. And there aren't any pay cuts. There is only the usual dems trying to tell Bush what to do and trying to be commanders in chief. They will fail like they always have. And you will fail like you always have.

BTW thats the job of the legislative branch, thats why this is not a dictator ship or an empire. Thats what makes america so great is the balance of power and that is all the legislative branch is doing is balancing the power, if the troops suffer oh well, there blood will be on bushs hands for not executing the will of the people, the people put democrats in office for a reason and that reason was to stop the war. But you dont care about any of this you just want to flame.

[Gaffer]

BTW thats the job of the legislative branch, thats why this is not a dictator ship or an empire. Thats what makes america so great is the balance of power and that is all the legislative branch is doing is balancing the power, if the troops suffer oh well, there blood will be on bushs hands for not executing the will of the people, the people put democrats in office for a reason and that reason was to stop the war. But you dont care about any of this you just want to flame.

You really need to learn how the branches of government work.

:flameth:

[jimnyc]

Wow what a string of red neck posts. Our sole coustomers are not the military, I work in oil and gas and everyone in the world needs it so im not to worried. As far as all the other mindless remarks whatever, no one wants to debate they just want to be idiot rednecks and maybe pretty soon you can be an idiot redneck with no paycheck because you signed on the dotted line. It doesnt matter if I signed the dotted line because I dont tout that as an excuse to have to put up with bull shit from idiots.


I dont tout the dotted line argument, you do. The dotted line does not mean anything to me. Yes I signed it but I dont support that anyone should have to honor it, you do. So now you guys are whining and crying, guess what you signed the dotted line so why dont you practice what you preach. Im not the one preaching about the dotted line. A contract has to involve both parties walking away happy, if not its a bogus contract. The answer to your question does not get any clearer than that.

That is absolutely INCORRECT. All that is necessary for a contract to exist is a "meeting of the minds". Hell, you wouldn't even need to sign, verbal would have sufficed. The military offered you training, pay and a career - you're initial showing up to serve would have been your acceptance. Any court in the land would see your signature to that contract as a "meeting of the minds" and that a valid contract existed that you became a party of. The time to contest said contract or argue about it would have been BEFORE you signed it. I tell everyone this who buy a used car "as is" without having it inspected first. When it dies 2 weeks later, enjoy your car! The time to fight over a contract is before you sign, you can't very well complain much later when things don't work out to your liking.

[Yurt]

Yea it must be impossible for people with other view points to also be successful. All democrats must clerk at the 7/11 except for the ones in office of course. All comments posted since myn :lame2: Can no one answer a simple question. BTW not honoring stupid contracts is not dishonorable.

so contracts are meaningless to you...

[gabosaurus]

The truth is now known! The Pentagon hates our troops and hates America.

[rppearso]

You really need to learn how the branches of government work.

:flameth:

I understand how thing traditionally work. The issue here is since the judicial branch wont empeach bush and are not electable the only thing the people can do is vote in legislators that will stone wall the president. Since the legislative branch does not have a quarm to all out stone wall the president through over riding his veto they have to take the back door which is cutting off his funding. The will of the people will be done, the troops are not the people, you are a small percentage of the over all population. The hardliner, hearlessness of the republican party as well as the total fiscal irrisponsibility is what totally sunk you, and I see nothing changes with republicans as they sit on this forum and spew out hard talk, swear words, inflamitory remarks and the like, the people are tired of this crap.

BTW no one anwsered the original question, people just said a bunch of words.

[Kathianne]

I understand how thing traditionally work. The issue here is since the judicial branch wont empeach bush and are not electable the only thing the people can do is vote in legislators that will stone wall the president. Since the legislative branch does not have a quarm to all out stone wall the president through over riding his veto they have to take the back door which is cutting off his funding. The will of the people will be done, the troops are not the people, you are a small percentage of the over all population. The hardliner, hearlessness of the republican party as well as the total fiscal irrisponsibility is what totally sunk you, and I see nothing changes with republicans as they sit on this forum and spew out hard talk, swear words, inflamitory remarks and the like, the people are tired of this crap.

BTW no one anwsered the original question, people just said a bunch of words.

I wonder. Do you have awareness of just how lame you reveal yourself? Is it only us that you choose to do so with? Has your family a clue to how damaged you are?

[theHawk]

I hope they dont pass it, you will see how much the executive branch really cares about its troops on what happens after it doesnt pass. This will teach alot of people a lesson that the american people dont support this war.

The executive branch doesn't control the money, Congress does. If Congress doesn't pay the troops, they'll get kicked out of office the next election. A vast majority wouldn't put up with playing politics with troops and their families. Only shitbag cowards like yourself who couldn't hack it in boot camp and hate everyone else that did make it through would want to see that happen.

[Nukeman]

Yes I do, and its one that you signed and now your type are bitching and moaning about pay cuts. You want to throw the book at me because I got out but now your type are bitching, your bitching about the very thing you are so willing to throw the book at me for but oh its different now that it sucks for you thats what makes you a hypocrite.

This is what I am debating period.You didn't answer my question! Are you retarded or what? I have to ask due to your absolute lack of spelling and grammer and also how you completely go off on a different tangent to the QUESTION I asked YOU.... Will you answer or not? If not, why not?:poke:

[rppearso]

Who getws to determine if they are stupid contract or not... It isn't just one sided as to how you "feel", it is how BOTH parties feel.

You obviously couldn't cut it you got out we fully understand that but you than continuosly BITCH about anything military. i suppose if you had a bad experience at the doctors office you would tell everyone NOT to go to the doctor????? Get over it!!!!!!!!!

What it boils down to is I agree with contracts regarding financial commitments but I strongly disagree with contracts involving indentured servituded, the contract just by its nature is null and void as soon as either party no longer wants to hold to it, the constitution superceeds these contracts. The only reason the military gets away with these contracts and the draft is because of a single supreme court precedence which I think is total BS.

This is a new human rights act that applies to forign laborers but could easily be applied to the military: http://www.theorator.com/bills110/text/hr1763.html

The 13th ammedment protects us from indentured servitude. Even though the supreme court ruled in favor of military servitude, I dont agree with a single court presidence over riding the constitution.

That being said I believe you should have to repay any monitary bonuses you receive to satisfy your financial end of the contract but not physical presence as that is servitude (whether you signed up for it or not).

So now that also being said your type are the ones touting the signed on the dotted argument and now you bitch and cry about the book being thrown back at you.

[jimnyc]

What it boils down to is I agree with contracts regarding financial commitments but I strongly disagree with contracts involving indentured servituded, the contract just by its nature is null and void as soon as either party no longer wants to hold to it

You wouldn't make it very far in the legal world! If you felt this way about the contract, why did you sign it in the first place? And you can't simply decide you don't wanna hold yourself to it and declare it null and void! You do realize the whole point of a contract is for one party to protect themselves from people who think like you?

[rppearso]

You wouldn't make it very far in the legal world! If you felt this way about the contract, why did you sign it in the first place? And you can't simply decide you don't wanna hold yourself to it and declare it null and void! You do realize the whole point of a contract is for one party to protect themselves from people who think like you?

You should read my post to nukeman, it has my full explaination. There is a difference between holding someone captive and holding someone to financial responsibility. You cant compare military contracts to any other contracts. I do agree that you ought to be held accountable to pay back any bonuses or money you recieve if you quit your military contract because that is part of your financial responsibility. As far as the cost of training that is just the cost of doing buisness, if you send someone to basic and they quit half way through oh well welcome to the real world.

[AFbombloader]

The will of the people will be done, the troops are not the people, you are a small percentage of the over all population.

I have stayed out of this because it is just a rehashing of every thread we have ever had with rrpearso. He has not said anything new,until this. What exactly are you saying? When did I become not one of the people? Yes we are a small percentage of the population, but how does that make us not American citizens who diserve everything all other citizens get? If anything, I think the members of the armed forces ARE the real people. We work long hours, under austere conditions, for pay that is less than we could get elsewhere. Why do we do this? Because we are true Americans, and we do it for everybody else, even you.

I feel pity for you rrpearso, I really do. Your views on America are so twisted and wrong. I think it is unhealthy.

AF:salute:

[jimnyc]

You should read my post to nukeman, it has my full explaination. There is a difference between holding someone captive and holding someone to financial responsibility. You cant compare military contracts to any other contracts. I do agree that you ought to be held accountable to pay back any bonuses or money you recieve if you quit your military contract because that is part of your financial responsibility. As far as the cost of training that is just the cost of doing buisness, if you send someone to basic and they quit half way through oh well welcome to the real world.

They would be holding you "captive" within the law, and to the obligations that you agreed to. And yes, I can compare contracts, as that's exactly what it boils down to. There's a reason even the military calls it a contract and a reason they have you sign.

The cost of training is all part of the contract and something you are responsible for. If you just "quit" then you are not honoring the contract, or your "word". That's why they have prisons and dishonorable discharges. See how America and 99% of employers feel about someone who gets a dishonorable from the military.

Serious question - did you really not know what you were getting into when you joined and signed your contract? Did you think those in charge were going to be pleasant with you in basic? WHY did you join to begin with?

[rppearso]

They would be holding you "captive" within the law, and to the obligations that you agreed to. And yes, I can compare contracts, as that's exactly what it boils down to. There's a reason even the military calls it a contract and a reason they have you sign.

The cost of training is all part of the contract and something you are responsible for. If you just "quit" then you are not honoring the contract, or your "word". That's why they have prisons and dishonorable discharges. See how America and 99% of employers feel about someone who gets a dishonorable from the military.

Serious question - did you really not know what you were getting into when you joined and signed your contract? Did you think those in charge were going to be pleasant with you in basic? WHY did you join to begin with?

I fully understand how things ARE, I simply disagree with the single supreme court precidence that allows the military to do what it does which is contrary to the constitution. Also even if someone were drafted your opinion of them for dodging the draft would not change which invalidates your signed on the dotted line argument because a draftee never signed anything yet you still denigarte him which makes you inconsistant in your argument and mentally unstable. If you agree that people have a right to not be drafted then your arguemnt is more credible.

Skit: drill sgt: You signed the dotted line maggot your dishonorable for not honoring your contract!
Draftee:uh no I dident I was drafted.
drill sgt: oh well your still dishonorable because your a pussy.

Do you see the hypocricy in this.

If I signed a contract to be someones slave for 4 years and then decided I dident want to do it anymore do you think the courts would uphold that contract, no way, they would probably say you have a mental disorder and have no buissness entering into such contracts, for some reason the supreme court decided the miltiary should get special exceptions from all logical thought. You can maintain a standing army without contracts if you pay people enough, but why do that if you can get a supreme court rulling, you just pray on young people by passing legislation to ensure you have access to them and go from there. The whole thing is a total sham. If you were really savy you could also say you were drunk when you signed your military contract making it null and void, entry into a contract is invalid if you are intoxicated.

[Mr. P]

I fully understand how things ARE, I simply disagree with the single supreme court precidence that allows the military to do what it does which is contrary to the constitution. Also even if someone were drafted your opinion of them for dodging the draft would not change which invalidates your signed on the dotted line argument because a draftee never signed anything yet you still denigarte him which makes you inconsistant in your argument and mentally unstable. If you agree that people have a right to not be drafted then your arguemnt is more credible.

Skit: drill sgt: You signed the dotted line maggot your dishonorable for not honoring your contract!
Draftee:uh no I dident I was drafted.
drill sgt: oh well your still dishonorable because your a pussy.

Do you see the hypocricy in this.

If I signed a contract to be someones slave for 4 years and then decided I dident want to do it anymore do you think the courts would uphold that contract, no way, they would probably say you have a mental disorder and have no buissness entering into such contracts, for some reason the supreme court decided the miltiary should get special exceptions from all logical thought. You can maintain a standing army without contracts if you pay people enough, but why do that if you can get a supreme court rulling, you just pray on young people by passing legislation to ensure you have access to them and go from there. The whole thing is a total sham. If you were really savy you could also say you were drunk when you signed your military contract making it null and void, entry into a contract is invalid if you are intoxicated.

There is no draft and you indeed have a mental disorder. Your ramblings are moot.

[AFbombloader]

I have stayed out of this because it is just a rehashing of every thread we have ever had with rrpearso. He has not said anything new,until this. What exactly are you saying? When did I become not one of the people? Yes we are a small percentage of the population, but how does that make us not American citizens who diserve everything all other citizens get? If anything, I think the members of the armed forces ARE the real people. We work long hours, under austere conditions, for pay that is less than we could get elsewhere. Why do we do this? Because we are true Americans, and we do it for everybody else, even you.

I feel pity for you rrpearso, I really do. Your views on America are so twisted and wrong. I think it is unhealthy.

AF:salute:

Care to reply to my question? You have issues when you are not answered...who is the hypocrite now??? I think I diserve a fair reply since you have said I am not one of the people.

AF:salute:

[rppearso]

Care to reply to my question? You have issues when you are not answered...who is the hypocrite now??? I think I diserve a fair reply since you have said I am not one of the people.

AF:salute:

There is nothing to debate with your question, your question stems from an insignificant portion of my overall point, if you want to debate the main point thats fine but going down this rabit hole is boring. Do you like talking about boring stuff, do you sit around with your buddies and talk about the weather or watch paint dry or grass grow. This site has become increasingly boring, I come by from time to time to see if anyone has anything fun to debate. There were some strong topics that had potential for fun debate but fizzeled out quick due to the fact everyone dodged main issues and turned the debate boring.

[Mr. P]

There is nothing to debate with your question, your question stems from an insignificant portion of my overall point, if you want to debate the main point thats fine but going down this rabit hole is boring. Do you like talking about boring stuff, do you sit around with your buddies and talk about the weather or watch paint dry or grass grow. This site has become increasingly boring, I come by from time to time to see if anyone has anything fun to debate. There were some strong topics that had potential for fun debate but fizzeled out quick due to the fact everyone dodged main issues and turned the debate boring.

Fizzled, insignificant? That's a perfect description of you...such a MORON!

[rppearso]

Fizzled, insignificant? That's a perfect description of you...such a MORON!

Whatever :lame2:

[AFbombloader]

There is nothing to debate with your question, your question stems from an insignificant portion of my overall point, if you want to debate the main point thats fine but going down this rabit hole is boring. Do you like talking about boring stuff, do you sit around with your buddies and talk about the weather or watch paint dry or grass grow. This site has become increasingly boring, I come by from time to time to see if anyone has anything fun to debate. There were some strong topics that had potential for fun debate but fizzeled out quick due to the fact everyone dodged main issues and turned the debate boring.

I didn't ask you to debate, only to explain your position. If you answer, and I reply, it may lead to debate...that is how things work right? Care to? Thank you for informing me what I should think about your post, but I disagree. I think it is the only thing you said in that post that made me want to reply, so it is not insignificant. As far as the boring topic issue, don't come back if we cannot keep with your high intellictual standards. I only want your answer to my question. And I do like to sit peacefully and do nothing from time to time, it is called relaxing.

AF:salute:

[rppearso]

I didn't ask you to debate, only to explain your position. If you answer, and I reply, it may lead to debate...that is how things work right? Care to? Thank you for informing me what I should think about your post, but I disagree. I think it is the only thing you said in that post that made me want to reply, so it is not insignificant. As far as the boring topic issue, don't come back if we cannot keep with your high intellictual standards. I only want your answer to my question. And I do like to sit peacefully and do nothing from time to time, it is called relaxing.

AF:salute:

I believe it is a dicy area, you get a right to vote but at the same time are government issue, you do not have all of your constitutional rights as is implied by being a US citizen. When you go in the military you are in part temporarily throwing away your US citizenship. You do not have the liberty of a US citizen which is debatably one of the most important constitutional rights to uphold.

[82Marine89]

I believe it is a dicy area, you get a right to vote but at the same time are government issue, you do not have all of your constitutional rights as is implied by being a US citizen. When you go in the military you are in part temporarily throwing away your US citizenship. You do not have the liberty of a US citizen which is debatably one of the most important constitutional rights to uphold.

Temporarily throwing away your US citizenship? Do not have the liberty of a US citizen? How so?

[rppearso]

Temporarily throwing away your US citizenship? Do not have the liberty of a US citizen? How so?

Because you dont have a choise in what you do, what if you dont want to go to iraq, to bad your going or go to jail, I would hardly call that liberty. You can also be forced to work extra hours without compensation which is illegal in the civilian world.

[Missileman]

Because you dont have a choise in what you do, what if you dont want to go to iraq, to bad your going or go to jail, I would hardly call that liberty. You can also be forced to work extra hours without compensation which is illegal in the civilian world.

Damned if that's not the stupidest fucking argument I've ever read. In your military, soldiers wouldn't have to follow any order...what an imbecile!

[dread]

Because you dont have a choise in what you do, what if you dont want to go to iraq, to bad your going or go to jail, I would hardly call that liberty. You can also be forced to work extra hours without compensation which is illegal in the civilian world.




Yes you DO have a choice. When entering the military you understand that you MAY or MAY not go to Iraq. It is pretty simple. If you dont want to go to Iraq DONT go into the military. If you DONT want to work extra hours DONT go into the military.

No one goes into the military thinking they are going to get rich. The pay is low and the hours are long. If one DOESNT understand that when entering the military then they get what they deserve for NOT being better informed prior to their decision making.

[82Marine89]

Because you dont have a choise in what you do, what if you dont want to go to iraq, to bad your going or go to jail, I would hardly call that liberty. You can also be forced to work extra hours without compensation which is illegal in the civilian world.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Spell-check and intelligence are your friends. Use them.

Now to address your lame retort...

Every member of the military joined or re-enlisted after the war started. They knew they would face combat or at a minimum be sent to a war zone. Wars aren't fought 9-5, nor is training. I'm salaried. I work approximately 45-55 hours a week. No compensation except for a paycheck every Friday. That is not illegal. I signed the contract to work for a certain amount of money. The folks in the military signed a contract knowing that they wouldn't work 9-5. Marines are Marines 24/7 as are other service members with their respective branches. Panty wastes like you couldn't hack it so you went back home to suck on mommas nipple and get the comfort you need.

[5stringJeff]

To the original topic of the thread:

I just had the "pleasure" of sitting through a week full of briefings in DC as part of the master's program I'm going through. I have heard a few generals and high-ranking civilains talk about the current game of Budget Chicken that's going on. What is currently happening is that the Navy and Air Force are going to "loan" the Army enought money so that all three services will run out of money at about the same time. This will allow the services to keep operating for a while.
We also heard from some Congressional staffers (professional, not partisan) who said that the reason for this is that the Democrat majority wants to have the debate on Iraq policy, troop levels, etc., and is using the FY08 supplemental funding bill to have that debate. The chances of any soldier missing any paycheck is slim to none, because the Democrats know that soldiers going without pay is a political millstone around the neck.
It's all a political game, which is sadly being played with the troops' salaries.

[rppearso]

To the original topic of the thread:

I just had the "pleasure" of sitting through a week full of briefings in DC as part of the master's program I'm going through. I have heard a few generals and high-ranking civilains talk about the current game of Budget Chicken that's going on. What is currently happening is that the Navy and Air Force are going to "loan" the Army enought money so that all three services will run out of money at about the same time. This will allow the services to keep operating for a while.
We also heard from some Congressional staffers (professional, not partisan) who said that the reason for this is that the Democrat majority wants to have the debate on Iraq policy, troop levels, etc., and is using the FY08 supplemental funding bill to have that debate. The chances of any soldier missing any paycheck is slim to none, because the Democrats know that soldiers going without pay is a political millstone around the neck.
It's all a political game, which is sadly being played with the troops' salaries.

The congress has to use what they have to get the job done, they dont have the power to straight up pull troops to they have to do it in a round about way, they are looking out for Americas best interests not the troops. And this war is bankrupting us. Bush is the one perpetuating this war not congress.

[rppearso]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Spell-check and intelligence are your friends. Use them.

Now to address your lame retort...

Every member of the military joined or re-enlisted after the war started. They knew they would face combat or at a minimum be sent to a war zone. Wars aren't fought 9-5, nor is training. I'm salaried. I work approximately 45-55 hours a week. No compensation except for a paycheck every Friday. That is not illegal. I signed the contract to work for a certain amount of money. The folks in the military signed a contract knowing that they wouldn't work 9-5. Marines are Marines 24/7 as are other service members with their respective branches. Panty wastes like you couldn't hack it so you went back home to suck on mommas nipple and get the comfort you need.

You truely are a complete idiot, if you want to live in a ditch and cover up with a tarp I dont care, but you look like an idiot when you lash out at people who live in a house because there not stupid.

[Kathianne]

You truely are a complete idiot, if you want to live in a ditch and cover up with a tarp I dont care, but you look like an idiot when you lash out at people who live in a house because there not stupid.

Where is stupid? It isn't there, or is it?

Seriously, you have no reply.

[Missileman]

You truely are a complete idiot, if you want to live in a ditch and cover up with a tarp I dont care, but you look like an idiot when you lash out at people who live in a house because there not stupid.

Where's your explanation of how the military will function properly if soldiers don't have to follow orders?

[Mr. P]

You truely are a complete idiot, if you want to live in a ditch and cover up with a tarp I dont care, but you look like an idiot when you lash out at people who live in a house because there not stupid.

It's time, Jim. How long will you allow this prick to insult and degrade the vets and active duty folks on this board!??? Free speech is great and all that...but there are limits...right?

[Yurt]

You truely are a complete idiot, if you want to live in a ditch and cover up with a tarp I dont care, but you look like an idiot when you lash out at people who live in a house because there not stupid.

he is an idiot because his service, among many others service, continued to work towards your freedom to write hate fillled garbage and live in a house under the AMERICAN roof??? people like you make me sick.

[Yurt]

It's time, Jim. How long will you allow this prick to insult and degrade the vets and active duty folks on this board!??? Free speech is great and all that...but there are limits...right?

no, we need to see how the far left truly thinks....

[Kathianne]

It's time, Jim. How long will you allow this prick to insult and degrade the vets and active duty folks on this board!??? Free speech is great and all that...but there are limits...right?

I agree, perhaps a 'new rule' in effect retroactively. One may only criticize the military 100 times without acknowledging something good? Seems fair considering what they sacrifice for the rest of us.

[Mr. P]

no, we need to see how the far left truly thinks....

Yurt, believe me..I have more respect for the far left than this ass-hole!

[Yurt]

fair enough K and Mr. P, but i don't want this place to become anti free speech. there are rules regarding personal insults, which are fair because they help keep the board from becoming WWF. but this turds opinions, are just that, opinions. the more he talks the more people will see how cracked those on the left are.

i do understand your point though.

[Mr. P]

fair enough K and Mr. P, but i don't want this place to become anti free speech. there are rules regarding personal insults, which are fair because they help keep the board from becoming WWF. but this turds opinions, are just that, opinions. the more he talks the more people will see how cracked those on the left are.

i do understand your point though.

I also understand your point..the problem is insult after insult directed at honorable men and women amounts to nothing but a TROLL and has no place in any board..IMO.

[Pale Rider]

I also understand your point..the problem is insult after insult directed at honorable men and women amounts to nothing but a TROLL and has no place in any board..IMO.

And our board trolls have ALWAYS, historically been, *LIBERALS*!

They come here to talk their CRAP because they know if they talked like that to our FACE they'd get their fucking ASS BEAT!

Neg the dumb fucker and move on.

[Mr. P]

And our board trolls have ALWAYS, historically been, *LIBERALS*!

They come here to talk their CRAP because they know if they talked like that to our FACE they'd get their fucking ASS BEAT!

Neg the dumb fucker and move on.

Pale, he's -16500 rep..what's the point? :laugh2:

This is way beyond rep for me. You know how I feel about those who served and are serving. This is not tolerable...for me anyway...it's NOT fun nor games, it honest respect on my part and total disrespect on his...for Jim..i donno, but I assure you I don't wanna hear the FREE Speech thing in this case.

[82Marine89]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Spell-check and intelligence are your friends. Use them.

Now to address your lame retort...

Every member of the military joined or re-enlisted after the war started. They knew they would face combat or at a minimum be sent to a war zone. Wars aren't fought 9-5, nor is training. I'm salaried. I work approximately 45-55 hours a week. No compensation except for a paycheck every Friday. That is not illegal. I signed the contract to work for a certain amount of money. The folks in the military signed a contract knowing that they wouldn't work 9-5. Marines are Marines 24/7 as are other service members with their respective branches. Panty wastes like you couldn't hack it so you went back home to suck on mommas nipple and get the comfort you need.

You truely are a complete idiot, if you want to live in a ditch and cover up with a tarp I dont care, but you look like an idiot when you lash out at people who live in a house because there not stupid.

Hey retard. That would be "they're".

[rppearso]

Wow thats like 10 posts with nothing really useful or entertaining said. Anyways im not liberal, I believe in fiscal responsibility and I collect guns. I believe in the constitution and this nation, I just dont condone the f**k stick actions of most US soldiers, so many military members are the most pea brained idiots I have ever met, most have no honor and they use there uniform/association as a shield. I dont care if you are a gunny sgt in the marine core, if you act like a piece of s**t then thats all you are with fancy shaped patches on your uniform. As far as going to iraq, if governors and NG generals had any honor whatso ever they would shield there troops from bush's idiocy. None of the states have the balls to stand up against the president. I grew a tree I guess that makes me responsible for the wood in your house, idiots, just becasue you joined the military does not mean you are protecting my freedom nor does it mean you have any honor.

[rppearso]

Hey retard. That would be "they're".

Way to keep it interesting. :lame2:

[manu1959]

Wow thats like 10 posts with nothing really useful or entertaining said. Anyways im not liberal, I believe in fiscal responsibility and I collect guns. I believe in the constitution and this nation, I just dont condone the f**k stick actions of most US soldiers, so many military members are the most pea brained idiots I have ever met, most have no honor and they use there uniform/association as a shield. I dont care if you are a gunny sgt in the marine core, if you act like a piece of s**t then thats all you are with fancy shaped patches on your uniform. As far as going to iraq, if governors and NG generals had any honor whatso ever they would shield there troops from bush's idiocy. None of the states have the balls to stand up against the president. I grew a tree I guess that makes me responsible for the wood in your house, idiots, just becasue you joined the military does not mean you are protecting my freedom nor does it mean you have any honor.

and you purpose for being and oxygen bandit would be what......

[5stringJeff]

The congress has to use what they have to get the job done, they dont have the power to straight up pull troops to they have to do it in a round about way, they are looking out for Americas best interests not the troops. And this war is bankrupting us. Bush is the one perpetuating this war not congress.

Incorrect. At any time, Congress could repeal the 2002 authorization to have troops in Iraq, and the military would be forced to withdraw. There is a direct way to accomplish what the Dems want to do, they just won't do it.

[rppearso]

And our board trolls have ALWAYS, historically been, *LIBERALS*!

They come here to talk their CRAP because they know if they talked like that to our FACE they'd get their fucking ASS BEAT!

Neg the dumb fucker and move on.

Is that because you cant have discussions and disagree with people, you just fly off the handle in a fit of rage, wacko. Before you go flying off the handle and assaulting someone be aware that sort of crap could get you shot. If someone broke into my house in a craze they will likely get killed with whatever gun for the room im in.

[5stringJeff]

Wow thats like 10 posts with nothing really useful or entertaining said. Anyways im not liberal, I believe in fiscal responsibility and I collect guns. I believe in the constitution and this nation, I just dont condone the f**k stick actions of most US soldiers, so many military members are the most pea brained idiots I have ever met, most have no honor and they use there uniform/association as a shield. I dont care if you are a gunny sgt in the marine core, if you act like a piece of s**t then thats all you are with fancy shaped patches on your uniform. As far as going to iraq, if governors and NG generals had any honor whatso ever they would shield there troops from bush's idiocy. None of the states have the balls to stand up against the president. I grew a tree I guess that makes me responsible for the wood in your house, idiots, just becasue you joined the military does not mean you are protecting my freedom nor does it mean you have any honor.

After a few weeks away from the board, I was forgetting why everyone can't stand you. Thanks for reminding me. :rolleyes:

[rppearso]

Incorrect. At any time, Congress could repeal the 2002 authorization to have troops in Iraq, and the military would be forced to withdraw. There is a direct way to accomplish what the Dems want to do, they just won't do it.

The problem is the congress is just barely majority democrat they dont have a quorum so the only way to accomplish what the PEOPLE put them in there for is what they are doing right now, as the next round of votes comes up for congress and house you may see more and more republicans thrown out of office. Idealy McCain will win the presidency and the congress will have a quorum democrat. If Obama gets in we will have a whole new set of problems this nation has not yet seen unless of course congress goes back to the republicans, you need to have the congress be the oposite of the executive branch otherwise major problems start in one way or another.

[rppearso]

After a few weeks away from the board, I was forgetting why everyone can't stand you. Thanks for reminding me. :rolleyes:

Thanks for not participating.

[5stringJeff]

The problem is the congress is just barely majority democrat they dont have a quorum so the only way to accomplish what the PEOPLE put them in there for is what they are doing right now, as the next round of votes comes up for congress and house you may see more and more republicans thrown out of office. Idealy McCain will win the presidency and the congress will have a quorum democrat. If Obama gets in we will have a whole new set of problems this nation has not yet seen unless of course congress goes back to the republicans, you need to have the congress be the oposite of the executive branch otherwise major problems start in one way or another.

It's not a quorum the Dems need, it's a supermajority. And the Dems could do one of two things: 1. Force the GOP to debate and/or filibuster, or 2. convince some GOP senators to join their side. Since they don't have the balls for the first or the brains for the second, they're stuck with their current strategy.

[Mr. P]

Wow thats like 10 posts with nothing really useful or entertaining said. Anyways im not liberal, I believe in fiscal responsibility and I collect guns. I believe in the constitution and this nation, I just dont condone the f**k stick actions of most US soldiers, so many military members are the most pea brained idiots I have ever met, most have no honor and they use there uniform/association as a shield. I dont care if you are a gunny sgt in the marine core, if you act like a piece of s**t then thats all you are with fancy shaped patches on your uniform. As far as going to iraq, if governors and NG generals had any honor whatso ever they would shield there troops from bush's idiocy. None of the states have the balls to stand up against the president. I grew a tree I guess that makes me responsible for the wood in your house, idiots, just becasue you joined the military does not mean you are protecting my freedom nor does it mean you have any honor.

I was about to post an apology to Jim for not going PM with him...Now, I rest my case.

[dread]

just becasue you joined the military does not mean you are protecting my freedom nor does it mean you have any honor.




You are talking right now arent you? Because last time I checked you werent hailing hilter. So yeah your freedoms are secure because of vets....And yes my daughter has alot of honor. She is a medic and loves her job and has signed up for a tour at GITMO. So she could help others.

[5stringJeff]

Thanks for not participating.

I'm on staff, so you get my participation, like it or not.

[Mr. P]

Thanks for not participating.

So someone that bails after just making it through basic is going to say "Thanks for not participating" to a West Point Graduate? You are a FUCKING LUNATIC IDIOT!

[jimnyc]

Wow thats like 10 posts with nothing really useful or entertaining said. Anyways im not liberal, I believe in fiscal responsibility and I collect guns. I believe in the constitution and this nation, I just dont condone the f**k stick actions of most US soldiers, so many military members are the most pea brained idiots I have ever met, most have no honor and they use there uniform/association as a shield. I dont care if you are a gunny sgt in the marine core, if you act like a piece of s**t then thats all you are with fancy shaped patches on your uniform. As far as going to iraq, if governors and NG generals had any honor whatso ever they would shield there troops from bush's idiocy. None of the states have the balls to stand up against the president. I grew a tree I guess that makes me responsible for the wood in your house, idiots, just becasue you joined the military does not mean you are protecting my freedom nor does it mean you have any honor.

I'm afraid I'm going to side with Mr. P on this one.

Look, rppearso, I think you need to lighten up on the rhetoric about our troops and veterans. You can voice your displeasure and disdain without being outright disrespectful. Any of the regulars here that know me well know just how much I value freedom of speech. They also know how much I admire our troops and veterans. But you're using the freedoms to disrespect those who fought and many died to give you those very freedoms. Whether an unfriendly decision or not, I am asking respectfully that you control what rhetoric you pile onto your posts. It should be quite easy to express yourself, even in a mammoth amount of disagreement, without having to ridicule and/or show disrespect to. Just as you stated an officer can still be an asshole if he acts like one (or something like that), there are 1,000 more honorable men and women in our military to take their place. So if you want to speak "shit" of the specific bad personnel with facts, be my guest, but please stop bashing those that served and gave their lives for the freedoms I RESPECT.

[AFbombloader]

I believe it is a dicy area, you get a right to vote but at the same time are government issue, you do not have all of your constitutional rights as is implied by being a US citizen. When you go in the military you are in part temporarily throwing away your US citizenship. You do not have the liberty of a US citizen which is debatably one of the most important constitutional rights to uphold.

I have read the next few posts and see where you are trying to come from, but you are wrong. I have not given up any of my constitutional rights because I have joined the military. Yes, I have more restrictions on my conduct and behavior, yes I have restrictions on a lot of things, but I still have the same rights as you. I have the liberty you speak of, and by doing my job I allow you to have yours.
Can you not go on a business trip if you are told to by your boss? Yes you can, but you will be fired. I cannot be fired, therefore I am prosecuted. Do I work long hours, yes but I still get paid. Not everyone in the civilian workforce gets overtime. My wife gets salary, if she works late it doesn't increase her pay.
Your initial arguments are weak, do you have better?

AF:salute:

[rppearso]

I have read the next few posts and see where you are trying to come from, but you are wrong. I have not given up any of my constitutional rights because I have joined the military. Yes, I have more restrictions on my conduct and behavior, yes I have restrictions on a lot of things, but I still have the same rights as you. I have the liberty you speak of, and by doing my job I allow you to have yours.
Can you not go on a business trip if you are told to by your boss? Yes you can, but you will be fired. I cannot be fired, therefore I am prosecuted. Do I work long hours, yes but I still get paid. Not everyone in the civilian workforce gets overtime. My wife gets salary, if she works late it doesn't increase her pay.
Your initial arguments are weak, do you have better?

AF:salute:

The vast restrictions you speak of are your loss of liberty, that would suck to go to jail for refusing to go on a business trip which is what would happen to you if you dident want to go on your business trip (iraq, korea, etc). I am also salary but I get comp time and can cash it out so while its not time and a half I still get paid for my time or can use it for extra paid vacation, you dont see that happening in the military. I wont deny there are good people in the military but from my experience the shit bags out weighed the good ones, just like I will admit there were a few good drill sgts but the shitty nastyness of the bad ones made it like the good ones (the good ones yelled and did there job, but it was very easy to know which ones got off on it to make others suffer) did not exist because I did not have the liberty of association. The stuff you are trying to minimize is the big deal.

[Mr. P]

The vast restrictions you speak of are your loss of liberty, that would suck to go to jail for refusing to go on a business trip which is what would happen to you if you dident want to go on your business trip (iraq, korea, etc). I am also salary but I get comp time and can cash it out so while its not time and a half I still get paid for my time or can use it for extra paid vacation, you dont see that happening in the military. I wont deny there are good people in the military but from my experience the shit bags out weighed the good ones, just like I will admit there were a few good drill sgts but the shitty nastyness of the bad ones made it like the good ones (the good ones yelled and did there job, but it was very easy to know which ones got off on it to make others suffer) did not exist because I did not have the liberty of association. The stuff you are trying to minimize is the big deal.

The stuff you are trying to sensationalize is not a big deal. Hundreds of thousands that have served understand military life is different than civilian life, all but a few accept it, those that can't whine and get out at the end of their contract, fewer bail from their contract before completion. Those who bail are immature, have no sense of commitment and will have difficulty even in civilian life.

[AFbombloader]

The vast restrictions you speak of are your loss of liberty, that would suck to go to jail for refusing to go on a business trip which is what would happen to you if you dident want to go on your business trip (iraq, korea, etc). I am also salary but I get comp time and can cash it out so while its not time and a half I still get paid for my time or can use it for extra paid vacation, you dont see that happening in the military. I wont deny there are good people in the military but from my experience the shit bags out weighed the good ones, just like I will admit there were a few good drill sgts but the shitty nastyness of the bad ones made it like the good ones (the good ones yelled and did there job, but it was very easy to know which ones got off on it to make others suffer) did not exist because I did not have the liberty of association. The stuff you are trying to minimize is the big deal.

I don't minimize anything. I know that I have restrictions, but to categorize them as loosing my liberty is incorrect. I see them as part of the contract I signed almost 20 years ago. I knew at the time what I was getting into and I chose to accept it. I have the same freedom as you do to do or not do what I please. The only difference is the consequences for doing it. We both have them and to say you don't is a lie.
As to the comp time. You have no idea how much time off I get, and the best thing about it is I always get paid. I have been on a "business trip" to Singapore for the last 14 days and have had a 3 and 4 day weekend. That is half the time I have been here. We get every Federal holiday off, that works out to about 13 a year. With most of those we will get a family day, another 5-7 a year. All with pay. Plus we earn 30 days of leave a year, all with pay. If I am sick, I can get the time off, with pay. If I get injured, I get time off, with pay. Nobody in the military, in their right mind, should complain about the time off we get. Yes, there are long hours to go along with it, but they balance out in my mind.

AF:salute:

[Psychoblues]

Good shot, jimmy!!!!!!!!



I'm afraid I'm going to side with Mr. P on this one.

Look, rppearso, I think you need to lighten up on the rhetoric about our troops and veterans. You can voice your displeasure and disdain without being outright disrespectful. Any of the regulars here that know me well know just how much I value freedom of speech. They also know how much I admire our troops and veterans. But you're using the freedoms to disrespect those who fought and many died to give you those very freedoms. Whether an unfriendly decision or not, I am asking respectfully that you control what rhetoric you pile onto your posts. It should be quite easy to express yourself, even in a mammoth amount of disagreement, without having to ridicule and/or show disrespect to. Just as you stated an officer can still be an asshole if he acts like one (or something like that), there are 1,000 more honorable men and women in our military to take their place. So if you want to speak "shit" of the specific bad personnel with facts, be my guest, but please stop bashing those that served and gave their lives for the freedoms I RESPECT.

That's why I continue to respect you!!!!!!!!!!!!

[rppearso]

The stuff you are trying to sensationalize is not a big deal. Hundreds of thousands that have served understand military life is different than civilian life, all but a few accept it, those that can't whine and get out at the end of their contract, fewer bail from their contract before completion. Those who bail are immature, have no sense of commitment and will have difficulty even in civilian life.

Not a big deal in your mind and more than a few people bail before there contract an 8 year contract is almost a decade that is beyond just "sucking it up" if you hate being there, no one in there right mind would do something for 8 years if they hated it (people do it but they are not in there right mind in my opinion), you will forget who you even are after a decade of patronizing people and be lucky to get your mind right and live your life as you see fit. There are tons of people who go AWOL not just a few here and there. I dont have a problem in civilian life and im not immature because I refuse to be bullyed and I bailed early in the miltiary, I go to work from 8 to 5 and I dont have to ask for permission to live my life as I see fit but most importantly I can refuse to perform "extra duty" and I cant be fired for it by law there are no consequences, consequences to refusal to perform "extra duty" in the miltiary can be harsh and that is your lack of liberty, people understand you need to work to make a living but liberty is being able to spend your free time as you see fit with 0 infringment.

[rppearso]

I don't minimize anything. I know that I have restrictions, but to categorize them as loosing my liberty is incorrect. I see them as part of the contract I signed almost 20 years ago. I knew at the time what I was getting into and I chose to accept it. I have the same freedom as you do to do or not do what I please. The only difference is the consequences for doing it. We both have them and to say you don't is a lie.
As to the comp time. You have no idea how much time off I get, and the best thing about it is I always get paid. I have been on a "business trip" to Singapore for the last 14 days and have had a 3 and 4 day weekend. That is half the time I have been here. We get every Federal holiday off, that works out to about 13 a year. With most of those we will get a family day, another 5-7 a year. All with pay. Plus we earn 30 days of leave a year, all with pay. If I am sick, I can get the time off, with pay. If I get injured, I get time off, with pay. Nobody in the military, in their right mind, should complain about the time off we get. Yes, there are long hours to go along with it, but they balance out in my mind.

AF:salute:

Thats good for you, the problem is not your individual situation its what the miltiary is allowed to do, you might get lots of vacation but the military has the option to make you pull extra duty and cut your vacation thats really the issue here, if it were outside of the miltiarys authority to strip your liberty that would be a different story. Liberty is not that you happen to have a nice slave master who lets you come in the house and have a soda, liberty is stripping the authority away from the slave master and making the slave free, you are not free in the military the military can jack up your life at any time for any reason, they may not but they CAN and that is the problem. There is no liberty in having to patronize someone in order to "earn" my human rights, if I think your a douch bag or I dont want to do something I should be able to come right out and say it and there should not be a damn thing you can do about it other than fire me.

[Missileman]

Thats good for you, the problem is not your individual situation its what the miltiary is allowed to do, you might get lots of vacation but the military has the option to make you pull extra duty and cut your vacation thats really the issue here, if it were outside of the miltiarys authority to strip your liberty that would be a different story. Liberty is not that you happen to have a nice slave master who lets you come in the house and have a soda, liberty is stripping the authority away from the slave master and making the slave free, you are not free in the military the military can jack up your life at any time for any reason, they may not but they CAN and that is the problem. There is no liberty in having to patronize someone in order to "earn" my human rights, if I think your a douch bag or I dont want to do something I should be able to come right out and say it and there should not be a damn thing you can do about it other than fire me.

You've yet to answer just how this fantastic military of your design would function if soldiers could just blow off orders. I'd say it past time for you to get over being unsuitable for service and face the fact that the failing was yours, not the military's.

[Monkeybone]

your pay gotten cut yet AF?

[AFbombloader]

your pay gotten cut yet AF?

nope, I even got some back pay this paycheck. So much for us being out of money.

[AFbombloader]

Thats good for you, the problem is not your individual situation its what the miltiary is allowed to do, you might get lots of vacation but the military has the option to make you pull extra duty and cut your vacation thats really the issue here, if it were outside of the miltiarys authority to strip your liberty that would be a different story. Liberty is not that you happen to have a nice slave master who lets you come in the house and have a soda, liberty is stripping the authority away from the slave master and making the slave free, you are not free in the military the military can jack up your life at any time for any reason, they may not but they CAN and that is the problem. There is no liberty in having to patronize someone in order to "earn" my human rights, if I think your a douch bag or I dont want to do something I should be able to come right out and say it and there should not be a damn thing you can do about it other than fire me.

Do you even pay attention to what we write? I guess not, becuse you don't make any sense. I am not a unique individual in the military, my situation is not special.

I am done trying to get you to see anything. I know I am free to do what I want, if you cannot see it that is great for you.

AF:salute:

[5stringJeff]

To the original topic of the thread:

I just had the "pleasure" of sitting through a week full of briefings in DC as part of the master's program I'm going through. I have heard a few generals and high-ranking civilains talk about the current game of Budget Chicken that's going on. What is currently happening is that the Navy and Air Force are going to "loan" the Army enought money so that all three services will run out of money at about the same time. This will allow the services to keep operating for a while.
We also heard from some Congressional staffers (professional, not partisan) who said that the reason for this is that the Democrat majority wants to have the debate on Iraq policy, troop levels, etc., and is using the FY08 supplemental funding bill to have that debate. The chances of any soldier missing any paycheck is slim to none, because the Democrats know that soldiers going without pay is a political millstone around the neck.
It's all a political game, which is sadly being played with the troops' salaries.

Hey, guess what? This happened! This week! Told you so! :D

[Nukeman]

Thats good for you, the problem is not your individual situation its what the miltiary is allowed to do, you might get lots of vacation but the military has the option to make you pull extra duty and cut your vacation thats really the issue here, if it were outside of the miltiarys authority to strip your liberty that would be a different story. Liberty is not that you happen to have a nice slave master who lets you come in the house and have a soda, liberty is stripping the authority away from the slave master and making the slave free, you are not free in the military the military can jack up your life at any time for any reason, they may not but they CAN and that is the problem. There is no liberty in having to patronize someone in order to "earn" my human rights, if I think your a douch bag or I dont want to do something I should be able to come right out and say it and there should not be a damn thing you can do about it other than fire me.
OK I bolded this little part here because I really don't want to over burden your mind with too much at one time.

ANY place of business can MAKE you pull extra duty (longer hours, overtime) they can also SHORTEN or REVOKE your vacation at any time. NOW if YOU dint want to play by their rules, be them a company or the military they will be happy to remove you from the roster and NOT pay you one damn cent.

I would like to see you go into your boss and tell him to "shove it up his ass" when your asked to stay late to meet a deadline or someone calls in sick and shifts need to be covered.

I am betting your so self centered YOU wouldn't volunteer to help out your fellow employees, then bitch and piss-and-moan when its finally forced upon you because everyone else has already done it. Than you would come back on here crying like a little baby about how unfair life is and how you were FORCED to work overtime or shorten your *gasp* vacation. :poke:

Get over yourself and heed the advice of "Missileman"


I'd say it past time for you to get over being unsuitable for service and face the fact that the failing was yours, not the military.

[Psychoblues]

Well, it's June 16, 2008 and I haven't heard any complaints from soldiers and/or troops about missing their checks. Have you? Who is more scared? You or them?

[rppearso]

OK I bolded this little part here because I really don't want to over burden your mind with too much at one time.

ANY place of business can MAKE you pull extra duty (longer hours, overtime) they can also SHORTEN or REVOKE your vacation at any time. NOW if YOU dint want to play by their rules, be them a company or the military they will be happy to remove you from the roster and NOT pay you one damn cent.

I would like to see you go into your boss and tell him to "shove it up his ass" when your asked to stay late to meet a deadline or someone calls in sick and shifts need to be covered.

I am betting your so self centered YOU wouldn't volunteer to help out your fellow employees, then bitch and piss-and-moan when its finally forced upon you because everyone else has already done it. Than you would come back on here crying like a little baby about how unfair life is and how you were FORCED to work overtime or shorten your *gasp* vacation. :poke:

Get over yourself and heed the advice of "Missileman"

The problem with the military is that extra duty is without pay, I get over time so I willingly work when I can get it because I have extra stuff I want to buy that my regular pay checks wont cover, but in the military you dont get an extra check if you had to pull extra duty for any reason. Soldiers should not be able to blow off reasonable orders within the scope of there MOS and if they are forced to do extra duty should be compensated for it.

I have listened to what others have said but we choose to focus on different aspects of the discussion, if we brush under the rug what some of you consider to be a sensationalization of minor points then yea everything is hunky dorry but thats not reality.

[AFbombloader]

If you are a salaried worker, you do not get extra compensation for extra work. My wife gets the same check every week, even if she stays late to set up parent conferences or training for her teachers. I could be wrong, but I think that is fairly standard. Now if you are an hourly worker, or have it set that you get additional compensation for extra time, then you are correct. But not in every situation.
As far as the military is concerned, we are salaried also. We get a set paycheck. So we fall under the same situation. They do not pay us on an hourly scale. Yes, I have worked 70-80 hour weeks, but they are very rare. Yes, I have been deployed, but I did recieve additional pay for that, just not additional salary. We do get compensated for the time we put in., They do not make us work without pay.

AF:salute:

[rppearso]

If you are a salaried worker, you do not get extra compensation for extra work. My wife gets the same check every week, even if she stays late to set up parent conferences or training for her teachers. I could be wrong, but I think that is fairly standard. Now if you are an hourly worker, or have it set that you get additional compensation for extra time, then you are correct. But not in every situation.
As far as the military is concerned, we are salaried also. We get a set paycheck. So we fall under the same situation. They do not pay us on an hourly scale. Yes, I have worked 70-80 hour weeks, but they are very rare. Yes, I have been deployed, but I did recieve additional pay for that, just not additional salary. We do get compensated for the time we put in., They do not make us work without pay.

AF:salute:

I mostly take issue with extra duty as a form of punishment, that is a stripping of your liberty. Also docking pay as a form of punishment is stripping of liberty that the service member should not have to tolerate. If you are non conformist or not working out you should be let go like at a normal job but instead they strip your liberty which is the equivalent to a master slave arrangement, do well and the slave master rewards you, do poorly or rub the wrong way with the slave master and your liberty is stripped this is 100% contrary to the constitution. So while you may be on the slave masters good side many others are not, and that is not even to say that they dont get there job done they just may not take shit from anyone and the sgt or CO does not like that so now that sgt or CO can invoke there slave master privileges. It is not really clear how drafts are not considered involuntary servitude and thus unconstitutional, not because you are defending your nation but because of how the military is ran internally which is mostly contradictory to the constitution, you have no free speech, no free press (ie cant tell the press anything you want), no free association/assembly, at least you have a right to redress and religion so I guess 2 out of 5 aint bad. You also do not have a right to bare arms (concealed on your person in civilian or military attire) acting as an individual for self defense.

[Missileman]

I mostly take issue with extra duty as a form of punishment, that is a stripping of your liberty. Also docking pay as a form of punishment is stripping of liberty that the service member should not have to tolerate. If you are non conformist or not working out you should be let go like at a normal job but instead they strip your liberty which is the equivalent to a master slave arrangement, do well and the slave master rewards you, do poorly or rub the wrong way with the slave master and your liberty is stripped this is 100% contrary to the constitution. So while you may be on the slave masters good side many others are not, and that is not even to say that they dont get there job done they just may not take shit from anyone and the sgt or CO does not like that so now that sgt or CO can invoke there slave master privileges.

JUST STFU ALREADY...what you "know" about the military could be written on a postage stamp with a crayon. Extra duty as a punishment is not a denial of liberty, it's a punishment. Every post of yours further justifies your removal from the military. You are too fucking stupid to wear the uniform.

[AFbombloader]

I mostly take issue with extra duty as a form of punishment, that is a stripping of your liberty. Also docking pay as a form of punishment is stripping of liberty that the service member should not have to tolerate. If you are non conformist or not working out you should be let go like at a normal job but instead they strip your liberty which is the equivalent to a master slave arrangement, do well and the slave master rewards you, do poorly or rub the wrong way with the slave master and your liberty is stripped this is 100% contrary to the constitution. So while you may be on the slave masters good side many others are not, and that is not even to say that they dont get there job done they just may not take shit from anyone and the sgt or CO does not like that so now that sgt or CO can invoke there slave master privileges. It is not really clear how drafts are not considered involuntary servitude and thus unconstitutional, not because you are defending your nation but because of how the military is ran internally which is mostly contradictory to the constitution, you have no free speech, no free press (ie cant tell the press anything you want), no free association/assembly, at least you have a right to redress and religion so I guess 2 out of 5 aint bad. You also do not have a right to bare arms (concealed on your person in civilian or military attire) acting as an individual for self defense.

Lets look at your first statement, you think it is wrong to get extra duty as a form of punishment. Ok, should I throw the book at a young man because he over-slept? Technally it is being AWOL. Or should I repremand him and have him make up the time by working a 12 hour shift? Docking pay is a form of punishment also. They just don't do it arbitrarily. The individual has committed a crime. Do you see my point? In your world there are no repercussions for anything. Anyone can do anything they want, that would be anarcy.
I still think you are wrong about my giving up any of my liberties. I have the right to free speech, freedom af religion, etc. I can assemble for political rallies and such, just not in uniform. I can own a gun, if I choose. I can hold a concealed permit if the state allows. I cannot carry it on a military installation and yes, I can't take it to work, but can you? How would your employer feel about that?
I'm not going to debate the slave/master thing because I think it is so far off base it doesn't warant debate. You can have that opinion if you choose. You are wrong, and I am ok with that. As far as the draft, we don't have one and it isn't coming back, so I don't think that is debateable either.

AF:salute:

[rppearso]

Lets look at your first statement, you think it is wrong to get extra duty as a form of punishment. Ok, should I throw the book at a young man because he over-slept? Technally it is being AWOL. Or should I repremand him and have him make up the time by working a 12 hour shift? Docking pay is a form of punishment also. They just don't do it arbitrarily. The individual has committed a crime. Do you see my point? In your world there are no repercussions for anything. Anyone can do anything they want, that would be anarcy.
I still think you are wrong about my giving up any of my liberties. I have the right to free speech, freedom af religion, etc. I can assemble for political rallies and such, just not in uniform. I can own a gun, if I choose. I can hold a concealed permit if the state allows. I cannot carry it on a military installation and yes, I can't take it to work, but can you? How would your employer feel about that?
I'm not going to debate the slave/master thing because I think it is so far off base it doesn't warant debate. You can have that opinion if you choose. You are wrong, and I am ok with that. As far as the draft, we don't have one and it isn't coming back, so I don't think that is debateable either.

AF:salute:

Yet the civilian world operates just fine without the lock step atmoshphere, I understand there are consequences to negitive actions but in the military you can be "punished" for much more things than in the civilian world creating a slave/master atmosphere.

[Nukeman]

Yet the civilian world operates just fine without the lock step atmoshphere, I understand there are consequences to negitive actions but in the military you can be "punished" for much more things than in the civilian world creating a slave/master atmosphere.
Are you really this stupid??? In the real world there are ALWAYS consequences to your actions this includes being fired for insubordination. YOU are soo full of yourself and so ANTI MILITARY that you refuse to see that anything that can happen to you in the military can happen to you in civilian life.

I will go one better for you, YOU fuck up good on your job in the civilian market you will be hard pressed to get another job in your same field. Get caught smoking pot or doing drugs while working in health care you can Kiss you career GOOD BY. I personally would be happy to take some type of punishment for wrong deeds instead of having my ENTIRE FUCKING CAREER ruined because I did something wrong.

You are so quick to see the wrong with the military yet you refuse to see how they can do things RIGHT....

[AFbombloader]

Yet the civilian world operates just fine without the lock step atmoshphere, I understand there are consequences to negitive actions but in the military you can be "punished" for much more things than in the civilian world creating a slave/master atmosphere.

We need to hold ourselves to a higher standard than the majority of the civilian market, so I have no issues with the way we handle punishment. It is because of what we do for a living.
Tha whole slave thing is completely idiotic, it really is. Yes, I do have to obey a lawful order of a senior individual. The key work is "lawful". If it is a bullshit order, I don't have to do it. Even if it is a good order, I can respectfully discuss other opions with the person, just like anyone can in the civilian market. You also have to follow the orders of your superiors, and if you are rude in your responce you will be fired. It really is quite the same situation, and if you are honest with yourself you will see this. But I imagine you will not, because of your complete and unwavering anti-military stance.

AF:salute:

[Psychoblues]

I think we need to especially tax the republicans and even more especially tax the supporters of the WAR ON IRAQ. I know they can afford it!!!!!!!!!!

[rppearso]

We need to hold ourselves to a higher standard than the majority of the civilian market, so I have no issues with the way we handle punishment. It is because of what we do for a living.
Tha whole slave thing is completely idiotic, it really is. Yes, I do have to obey a lawful order of a senior individual. The key work is "lawful". If it is a bullshit order, I don't have to do it. Even if it is a good order, I can respectfully discuss other opions with the person, just like anyone can in the civilian market. You also have to follow the orders of your superiors, and if you are rude in your responce you will be fired. It really is quite the same situation, and if you are honest with yourself you will see this. But I imagine you will not, because of your complete and unwavering anti-military stance.

AF:salute:

You are correct in these things, however I will not get fired for standing with my hands in my pockets using casual speech with a supervisor, "hey how are you", "whats up". Also if a supervisor is being abusive I can immediately walk away and remove myself from the situation and go higher I don't have to take the BS like you do in the military. Maybe that is also the case in the military but that was defiantly not the sentiment in basic, I could not even imagine what would have happened if I stepped out of formation and told the drill sgt I am calling bull shit and going to JAG, its the small things that make all the difference, maybe these rights did in fact exist without fear of any retribution (ie being recycled) but we defiantly were not briefed on it, we were briefed that we could go through a convoluded paper work process and a bunch of hoop jumping to get JAG involved but were never told we could walk over to the JAG sit down grab a cup of coffee and fill out paper work because I would have been in JAG more than in training and I would have demanded to be sent home after my 9 weeks regardless of training progress because its not my fault I had to constantly go to JAG, but thats not how it works now is it and im also not going back to my nice house im going to some run down barracks.

Also the biggest thing I was unable to flat out walk away with 0 consequences, there are no jail time consequences to quiting a job and if you quit becasue the job just wasent working out there will be no social stigma like there is with an OTH.

Also as far as the freedom of speech and assembly, its not truly free because you will be treated differently if you sgt finds out you were in an anti war anti military rally in civilian clothes and you will be persecuted for it and that is not free speech.

But the biggest issue is you cant walk away therefore you are not free and that is what it really boils down to.

[Psychoblues]

Compare the posts, rp. Spelling and grammer is important.



You are correct in these things, however I will not get fired for standing with my hands in my pockets using casual speech with a supervisor, "hey how are you", "whats up". Also if a supervisor is being abusive I can immediately walk away and remove myself from the situation and go higher I don't have to take the BS like you do in the military. Maybe that is also the case in the military but that was defiantly not the sentiment in basic, I could not even imagine what would have happened if I stepped out of formation and told the drill sgt I am calling bull shit and going to JAG, its the small things that make all the difference, maybe these rights did in fact exist without fear of any retribution (ie being recycled) but we defiantly were not briefed on it, we were briefed that we could go through a convoluded paper work process and a bunch of hoop jumping to get JAG involved but were never told we could walk over to the JAG sit down grab a cup of coffee and fill out paper work because I would have been in JAG more than in training and I would have demanded to be sent home after my 9 weeks regardless of training progress because its not my fault I had to constantly go to JAG, but thats not how it works now is it and im also not going back to my nice house im going to some run down barracks.

Also the biggest thing I was unable to flat out walk away with 0 consequences, there are no jail time consequences to quiting a job and if you quit becasue the job just wasent working out there will be no social stigma like there is with an OTH.

Also as far as the freedom of speech and assembly, its not truly free because you will be treated differently if you sgt finds out you were in an anti war anti military rally in civilian clothes and you will be persecuted for it and that is not free speech.

But the biggest issue is you cant walk away therefore you are not free and that is what it really boils down to.

Just whose do you think will garner the most respect? I fully understand and respect what you have to say but a simple spellcheck would make your argument much more informative and convincing for the jerks that generally abide in this repose of reichwing ideolgy. Don't 'cha think?

[rppearso]

Compare the posts, rp. Spelling and grammer is important.




Just whose do you think will garner the most respect? I fully understand and respect what you have to say but a simple spellcheck would make your argument much more informative and convincing for the jerks that generally abide in this repose of reichwing ideolgy. Don't 'cha think?

I do what I can Mozilla does not catch it all though.

[Psychoblues]

Sweet!!!!!!!!



I do what I can Mozilla does not catch it all though.

No control like self control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Kiss Mozilla on the cheek for me, OK?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?

[AFbombloader]

You are correct in these things, however I will not get fired for standing with my hands in my pockets using casual speech with a supervisor, "hey how are you", "whats up". Also if a supervisor is being abusive I can immediately walk away and remove myself from the situation and go higher I don't have to take the BS like you do in the military. Maybe that is also the case in the military but that was defiantly not the sentiment in basic, I could not even imagine what would have happened if I stepped out of formation and told the drill sgt I am calling bull shit and going to JAG, its the small things that make all the difference, maybe these rights did in fact exist without fear of any retribution (ie being recycled) but we defiantly were not briefed on it, we were briefed that we could go through a convoluded paper work process and a bunch of hoop jumping to get JAG involved but were never told we could walk over to the JAG sit down grab a cup of coffee and fill out paper work because I would have been in JAG more than in training and I would have demanded to be sent home after my 9 weeks regardless of training progress because its not my fault I had to constantly go to JAG, but thats not how it works now is it and im also not going back to my nice house im going to some run down barracks.

Also the biggest thing I was unable to flat out walk away with 0 consequences, there are no jail time consequences to quiting a job and if you quit becasue the job just wasent working out there will be no social stigma like there is with an OTH.

Also as far as the freedom of speech and assembly, its not truly free because you will be treated differently if you sgt finds out you were in an anti war anti military rally in civilian clothes and you will be persecuted for it and that is not free speech.

But the biggest issue is you cant walk away therefore you are not free and that is what it really boils down to.


I think your largest issue is the fact that you didn't really experience the military. Your entire experience was BMT. That is a totally different world, from the active military. The things that you say you wish you could do, you can do once you are out of BMT, within reason.

AF:salute:

[rppearso]

I think your largest issue is the fact that you didn't really experience the military. Your entire experience was BMT. That is a totally different world, from the active military. The things that you say you wish you could do, you can do once you are out of BMT, within reason.

AF:salute:

I spent almost 2 years at my guard unit after basic waiting to go to OCS and was out of the BMT enviorment and the BS was all the same. It was less intense only becasue I was only going one weekend a month otherwise nothing was really different. I had a lt col chew me out like a drill sgt becasue of my casual way of addressing people and that is what im talking about.

[emmett]

I spent almost 2 years at my guard unit after basic waiting to go to OCS and was out of the BMT enviorment and the BS was all the same. It was less intense only becasue I was only going one weekend a month otherwise nothing was really different. I had a lt col chew me out like a drill sgt becasue of my casual way of addressing people and that is what im talking about.

This guy at OCS, that is scary!

[Mr. P]

This guy at OCS, that is scary!

My guess is they had this fool tagged in basic as not being officer material...so he never would have gone to OCS. Then again he says he didn't want it anyway...cuz they scream at you and are not kind...and stuff.

WHAT A PUSS!!! :laugh2:

[AFbombloader]

I spent almost 2 years at my guard unit after basic waiting to go to OCS and was out of the BMT enviorment and the BS was all the same. It was less intense only becasue I was only going one weekend a month otherwise nothing was really different. I had a lt col chew me out like a drill sgt becasue of my casual way of addressing people and that is what im talking about.

Like I said, you did not experience the active duty military. In my experience the Army National Guard is as far away from the milirtary as you can get and still wear a uniform. That is in my experience. I had to deal with the recruiters and people at a few units while I was in recruiting and was not impressed.

AF:salute:

[Nukeman]

Like I said, you did not experience the active duty military. In my experience the Army National Guard is as far away from the milirtary as you can get and still wear a uniform. That is in my experience. I had to deal with the recruiters and people at a few units while I was in recruiting and was not impressed.

AF:salute:All you have to do is look at the caliber of person who couldn't hack it there *cough* *cough*.... rppearso......

[rppearso]

All you have to do is look at the caliber of person who couldn't hack it there *cough* *cough*.... rppearso......

What exactly are the benifits to "hacking it" anyways other than you have a job. It is pretty tough to have a reasonable discussion when only portions of your comments are quoted.

[rppearso]

My guess is they had this fool tagged in basic as not being officer material...so he never would have gone to OCS. Then again he says he didn't want it anyway...cuz they scream at you and are not kind...and stuff.

WHAT A PUSS!!! :laugh2:

If this was the case I should have been involuntarily discharged but that did not occure so I must not have been "pegged", if they had "pegged me" as early as basic I would have been given an ELS but that did not happen either so now you are just making things up, I would have prefered to been ELSed but thats not what happened.

[rppearso]

My guess is they had this fool tagged in basic as not being officer material...so he never would have gone to OCS. Then again he says he didn't want it anyway...cuz they scream at you and are not kind...and stuff.

WHAT A PUSS!!! :laugh2:

Oh how your tone would change if someone came into your home and started yelling at you or slamming your stuff around and harrasing your kids and wife. Its no differernt just because you are in "basic training", its intolerable, but the one who mistakes intolerance of poor behavior for weakness is a fool, if you came to my home and started that shit you would see a quick end to it.

[Psychoblues]

The congress approved the funding. The troops need not heed the fear instigated in them by the Republicans. Will they ever forgive you?