It's About Time Someone Made This Proposal

[Kathianne]

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2008/apr/29/alexander-calls-manhattan-project-clean-energy/?printer=1/


Alexander calls for 'Manhattan Project' on clean energy

Michael Collins
Originally published 11:04 a.m., April 29, 2008
Updated 11:04 a.m., April 29, 2008

WASHINGTON - With gas prices hitting $4 a gallon, U.S. Sen. Lamar Alexander said today he will call for a five-year effort similar to the Manhattan Project to put the country on the path to clean-energy independence...

[retiredman]

bravo!

[gabosaurus]

I am more in favor of conservation. Gas prices will continue to rise as long as there is an excessive demand for it.
I would rather see gas rationing.

[82Marine89]

I am more in favor of conservation. Gas prices will continue to rise as long as there is an excessive demand for it.
I would rather see gas rationing.

Then why don't you sell your car and ride a bike?

[glockmail]

Lamar's a good guy but he's not high up enough to call for this. As I wrote earlier today we need the Prez to do it. Also I expect that ten years would be a more achievable goal due to all the hoops that have to be jumped through, and liberals have put in the way.

[Dilloduck]

The other side of the story :

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/viewpoints/articles/0730schulz0730.html

[avatar4321]

Not that i don't like the idea of being energy independent in 5 years. but havent we supposedly been trying to get energy independent for decades?

[avatar4321]

I am more in favor of conservation. Gas prices will continue to rise as long as there is an excessive demand for it.
I would rather see gas rationing.

Conservation doesnt exactly put more oil in the market.

[Kathianne]

Not that i don't like the idea of being energy independent in 5 years. but havent we supposedly been trying to get energy independent for decades?

It's the idea of the resources behind it, with the promise of reward at the end.

[PostmodernProphet]

I am more in favor of conservation. Gas prices will continue to rise as long as there is an excessive demand for it.
I would rather see gas rationing.

I agree....here's your gallon, the rest of us will split what's left.....conservation was the solution tried after the 70s crisis....it worked so well we are currently free of any need for foreign oil.....oops!

[Dilloduck]

Conservation doesnt exactly put more oil in the market.

The Manhattan Project however was sucessfull at giving humans the ability to destroy humanity several times over. Additionally it taught us much about peaceful uses of nuclear energy which America refuses to use. What will Americans get this time for a massive investment such as this ? A non-petroleum source of energy that will be sold back to us at a price similar to what we already pay to say nothing of the fact that every vehicle (investment) on the road will probably become obsolete ? No thanks.

[mundame]

The Manhattan Project however was sucessfull at giving humans the ability to destroy humanity several times over. Additionally it taught us much about peaceful uses of nuclear energy which America refuses to use. What will Americans get this time for a massive investment such as this ?


The Manhattan Project took place during World War II.

There won't be another such Project until there is another war and we seriously need the energy because the oil tankers are being torpedoed on the high seas. It's too big to do without a war; for one thing, all the vested interests will resist, as Dilloduck points out.

During war time, there can be paradigm shifts even if people with vested interests resist: the government enforces it and sponsors research as it did with the original Manhattan Project.

I saw the sculptor Henry Moore supervise the placing of his famous statue at the commemorative site of the Manhattan Project in Hyde Park, at the University of Chicago. I was riding by on my bike; it's been awhile. He smiled at me. The statue looks like three things at once, a skull, a helmet and a mushroom cloud.

That about covers the ground.

[avatar4321]

The Manhattan Project took place during World War II.

There won't be another such Project until there is another war and we seriously need the energy because the oil tankers are being torpedoed on the high seas. It's too big to do without a war; for one thing, all the vested interests will resist, as Dilloduck points out.

During war time, there can be paradigm shifts even if people with vested interests resist: the government enforces it and sponsors research as it did with the original Manhattan Project.

I saw the sculptor Henry Moore supervise the placing of his famous statue at the commemorative site of the Manhattan Project in Hyde Park, at the University of Chicago. I was riding by on my bike; it's been awhile. He smiled at me. The statue looks like three things at once, a skull, a helmet and a mushroom cloud.

That about covers the ground.

if we dont do something to get energy independence now, we may see another major war.

[Hobbit]

With gas prices this high, I imagine the free market will eventually take care of this. There was a time in the 80s when gas prices shot up, so a privately owned, for-profit company was opened (I think with the help of the government, but I'm not sure) that made synthetic oil for, counting inflation, a mere fraction of the cost per barrel as the oil we're getting today. Why don't we have that thing anymore? OPEC saw us pulling away from their nozzle and bottomed out the price until those guys went out of business.

Right now, there's a huge demand for a cheaper alternative. Give the invisible hand time to move, and somebody will make a supply.

[glockmail]

With gas prices this high, I imagine the free market will eventually take care of this. There was a time in the 80s when gas prices shot up, so a privately owned, for-profit company was opened (I think with the help of the government, but I'm not sure) that made synthetic oil for, counting inflation, a mere fraction of the cost per barrel as the oil we're getting today. Why don't we have that thing anymore? OPEC saw us pulling away from their nozzle and bottomed out the price until those guys went out of business.

Right now, there's a huge demand for a cheaper alternative. Give the invisible hand time to move, and somebody will make a supply.


What happenes when the private market here finally does do all that, and OPEC does the same thing?

[DragonStryk72]

What happenes when the private market here finally does do all that, and OPEC does the same thing?

Well, hopefully, we learn from our previous mistake, and finish up the conversion, so that we can just let OPEC crash and burn like we should have last time.

[glockmail]

Well, hopefully, we learn from our previous mistake, and finish up the conversion, so that we can just let OPEC crash and burn like we should have last time. How do we do that? A tariff on OPEC oil?

[Hobbit]

What happens when the private market here finally does do all that, and OPEC does the same thing?

Won't happen. Certain members of OPEC (namely Iran) have antagonized the developed world so much that their drilling equipment is horrendously outdated and inefficient. That being the case, it becomes unprofitable if oil drops below $X/barrel, and enough Americans with money to burn and no love of OPEC that I think the industry would stay afloat longer than drilling for a loss would last in the Middle East.

If that's not the case, I think it's one of the few times a tariff would actually be justifiable, as it would remove OPEC's reward for collusion.

[DragonStryk72]

How do we do that? A tariff on OPEC oil?

Well, if we could finish the conversion to energy independence, we don't really need OPEC now do we? Screw a tariff, why would I pay for gas from the Middle East, when all the energy I need is sitting right here in the US?

[glockmail]

Won't happen. Certain members of OPEC (namely Iran) have antagonized the developed world so much that their drilling equipment is horrendously outdated and inefficient. That being the case, it becomes unprofitable if oil drops below $X/barrel, and enough Americans with money to burn and no love of OPEC that I think the industry would stay afloat longer than drilling for a loss would last in the Middle East.

If that's not the case, I think it's one of the few times a tariff would actually be justifiable, as it would remove OPEC's reward for collusion.


I agree. In fact I'd like to see a tariff now on OPEC that would offset the cost of the war, and any other BS that we do to create stability in the Middle East, including propping up Israel. Heck, while where at it, raise it more to pay for maintenance of our roads. Of course, it should be offset with reduced gas taxes and income taxes in order to make it revenue nuetral.

[glockmail]

Well, if we could finish the conversion to energy independence, we don't really need OPEC now do we? Screw a tariff, why would I pay for gas from the Middle East, when all the energy I need is sitting right here in the US? A tariff would be needed, otherwise OPEC will cut prices, and American investment would be worth less.