Legal Lies

[Hobbit]

In the world political correctness is creating, common sense flies out the window. We have companies unable to fire incompetant employees because it would violate racial quotas. We also have idiots growing up thinking they're smart because their teachers won't tell them otherwise. Now, we have the courts ruling in favor of a biological impossibility, that a child's mother's lesbian partner is also her mother.

About five years ago, Lisa Miller and Janet Jenkins, joined by a Vermont civil union, went to a fertility clinic, where Lisa Miller was artificially inseminated. Nine months later, Isabella was born. Time went on, and Lisa had an enormous change of heart. She turned her back on the lesbian lifestyle and returned to the church of her childhood, taking her daughter with her. Janet Jenkins, however, is now suing for maternal rights.

Janet Jenkins never adopted Isabella, but a judge in Vermont has ruled that, by virtue of the civil union, she is considered to be the natural parent. What comes next? A judge ruling that the sky is legally green?

http://www.breakpoint.org/listingarticle.asp?ID=6173&zbrandid=420&zidType=CH&zid=1256674&zsubscriberId=111128682

[Mr. P]

In the world political correctness is creating, common sense flies out the window. We have companies unable to fire incompetant employees because it would violate racial quotas. We also have idiots growing up thinking they're smart because their teachers won't tell them otherwise. Now, we have the courts ruling in favor of a biological impossibility, that a child's mother's lesbian partner is also her mother.

About five years ago, Lisa Miller and Janet Jenkins, joined by a Vermont civil union, went to a fertility clinic, where Lisa Miller was artificially inseminated. Nine months later, Isabella was born. Time went on, and Lisa had an enormous change of heart. She turned her back on the lesbian lifestyle and returned to the church of her childhood, taking her daughter with her. Janet Jenkins, however, is now suing for maternal rights.

Janet Jenkins never adopted Isabella, but a judge in Vermont has ruled that, by virtue of the civil union, she is considered to be the natural parent. What comes next? A judge ruling that the sky is legally green?

http://www.breakpoint.org/listingarticle.asp?ID=6173&zbrandid=420&zidType=CH&zid=1256674&zsubscriberId=111128682

Non-issue, lots of folks do the fertility clinic thing. It's not a gay issue.
The court ruled properly, IMO.

[Hobbit]

Non-issue, lots of folks do the fertility clinic thing. It's not a gay issue.
The court ruled properly, IMO.

Yeah, but the issue starts with the fertility clinics. People today are so obsessed with living out their fantasies that infertile husbands have been legally ruled the biological fathers of their wives' artificially inseminated children. Now, I'm not against the process, but let's get the facts straight. The husband is not the biological father. He should instead adopt the kid. Now, because biological lies have been ruled legal truths, the courts have now ruled a biological impossibility to be true. It's madness.

[Mr. P]

Yeah, but the issue starts with the fertility clinics. People today are so obsessed with living out their fantasies that infertile husbands have been legally ruled the biological fathers of their wives' artificially inseminated children. Now, I'm not against the process, but let's get the facts straight. The husband is not the biological father. He should instead adopt the kid. Now, because biological lies have been ruled legal truths, the courts have now ruled a biological impossibility to be true. It's madness.

Lets. It's a family law issue.

[Hobbit]

Lets. It's a family law issue.

I never said it wasn't. I simply claimed is was a 'legal' issue. I do believe family law falls under that category.

[Mr. P]

I never said it wasn't. I simply claimed is was a 'legal' issue. I do believe family law falls under that category.

Nahhh ...
Now, we have the courts ruling in favor of a biological impossibility, that a child's mother's lesbian partner is also her mother.

You're arguing something else.

[Hobbit]

Nahhh ...

You're arguing something else.

So, because I point out that it's been extended beyond the point of ludicrous, and that that point happens to be a girl being legally granted two biological mothers, I'm arguing that it's solely a gay issue, rather than a legal one? I fail to follow your logic.

[Mr. P]

So, because I point out that it's been extended beyond the point of ludicrous, and that that point happens to be a girl being legally granted two biological mothers, I'm arguing that it's solely a gay issue, rather than a legal one? I fail to follow your logic.

As I fail to follow yours. Plain and simple it's not a gay issue, it is a family law issue.

[Hobbit]

As I fail to follow yours. Plain and simple it's not a gay issue, it is a family law issue.

Isn't that what I just conceded was true? It's a legal issue. Family law fall under the catagory of 'legal.' You're trying to argue with me over something I'm not disagreeing with.

As for my logic, I'm arguing that the courts have been ruling biological lies to be truths for so long in an effort to let people live in a fantasy world that they have now ruled a biological impossibility true.

[Nienna]

As I fail to follow yours. Plain and simple it's not a gay issue, it is a family law issue.

Seems to me that what he is arguing is that you shouldn't be able to rule something "legally" true if it just isn't so. The lesbian lover or the husbands of in vitro fertilized women should be ruled "legal" parents, not "biological" parents.

[Hobbit]

Seems to me that what he is arguing is that you shouldn't be able to rule something "legally" true if it just isn't so. The lesbian lover or the husbands of in vitro fertilized women should be ruled "legal" parents, not "biological" parents.

Exactly. Thank you.

[trobinett]

Well, I don't know that its a "family issue", or a "law issue", what I DO know is that its about the stupidest fuck'n thing I ever heard of.

Mom got her head on "straight", and came back into the fold.

Fuck her lesbo girlfriend.

[Mr. P]

Seems to me that what he is arguing is that you shouldn't be able to rule something "legally" true if it just isn't so. The lesbian lover or the husbands of in vitro fertilized women should be ruled "legal" parents, not "biological" parents.

And that's what the court ruled. I think the biological came from the link. Obviously opposed to the ruling. Parental rights are not all based on biology in the law. This is an attempt to gay bash, IMO. Not by Hobbit but the author of the articale at the link.

[5stringJeff]

Fuck her lesbo girlfriend.

She already did. :laugh2: Sorry... totally out of character but I couldn't resist.


I agree with Nienna on this one.

[5stringJeff]

Parental rights are not all based on biology in the law.

They ought to be at least primarily based on biology.

[Nienna]

They ought to be at least primarily based on biology.

Especially when the other "guardian" never legally adopted the child in the first place.

[Mr. P]

They ought to be at least primarily based on biology.

Maybe, but with good reason they're not.

[Hobbit]

And that's what the court ruled. I think the biological came from the link. Obviously opposed to the ruling. Parental rights are not all based on biology in the law. This is an attempt to gay bash, IMO. Not by Hobbit but the author of the articale at the link.

Actually, the court has ruled that she's a biological mother. Because of how it's done, I don't think a judge would be out of line by granting some custody rights to the other woman, but even the birth certificate has her listed as a biological parent. There was no adoption. There was no legal process whatsoever. She was just declared mother number 2.

[Mr. P]

Especially when the other "guardian" never legally adopted the child in the first place.

Why? They had that evil civil union. Same in the eyes of the law as a marrage.

[Nienna]

Why? They had that evil civil union. Same in the eyes of the law as a marrage.

So, say a woman and man are married. The woman has an affair and conceives. Is her lover the biological father or is her husband?

[Mr. P]

So, say a woman and man are married. The woman has an affair and conceives. Is her lover the biological father or is her husband?

Come on ma..of course he the lover is the biological father..so what?
Now go to court and prove it.

Like I said the biological thing was a lame gay bashing tactic in the link in the first post.

[Nienna]

Come on ma..of course he the lover is the biological father..so what?
Now go to court and prove it.

Like I said the biological thing was a lame gay bashing tactic in the link in the first post.

So even though she was married to her husband, her husband does or does not have legal custody of the child?


I did not read the actual ruling so, I don't know if the judge used the word "biological" or not.

[Mr. P]

So even though she was married to her husband, her husband does or does not have legal custody of the child?


I did not read the actual ruling so, I don't know if the judge used the word "biological" or not.

Legal custody will be determined by the court.

[Nienna]

Legal custody will be determined by the court.

Legal "parenthood," then?

[Mr. P]

Legal "parenthood," then?

Legal custody.

[Nienna]

Legal custody.

No... the quote from the ruling (Which I finally checked out) was

[Janet (the lesbian partner)] “without question is presumed to be the natural parent . . . by the basis of the civil union.”

So, although a heterosexual husband would not be considered the "natural parent" of the child he did not take part in conceiving, the homosexual woman is supposed to be considered the "natural parent" on the basis of the civil union.

Doesn't sound like equal rights to me.

[Mr. P]

No... the quote from the ruling (Which I finally checked out) was


So, although a heterosexual husband would not be considered the "natural parent" of the child he did not take part in conceiving, the homosexual woman is supposed to be considered the "natural parent" on the basis of the civil union.

Doesn't sound like equal rights to me.

You too are mixing family/parent with biological. If a sperm donor wants to claim parental rights they could go to court and claim such and maybe gain custody. Must be why that stuff is kept secret, don’t ya think? The lover can do the same. So could the husband. This article is simply anti gay stuff.

Who said a thing about equal rights?
What is equal in this case is the law, like it or not it excludes religious beliefs..
Thank Gawd.

[trobinett]

Me thinks your playing the devil's advocate on this one Mr. P.

[Nienna]

You too are mixing family/parent with biological. If a sperm donor wants to claim parental rights they could go to court and claim such and maybe gain custody. Must be why that stuff is kept secret, don’t ya think? The lover can do the same. So could the husband. This article is simply anti gay stuff.

Who said a thing about equal rights?
What is equal in this case is the law, like it or not it excludes religious beliefs..
Thank Gawd.

Who said anything about "religious beliefs"?

The key word here is "natural." According to "Nature," there are two genetic parents of a child. Therefore, a "natural parent" seems like it should mean one who donated half the chromosomes.

If the lover wants to claim custodial rights or visitation rights, she may have a basis to sue, but the judge claiming that this woman is the "natural parent" is just false.

[Mr. P]

Who said anything about "religious beliefs"?

The key word here is "natural." According to "Nature," there are two genetic parents of a child. Therefore, a "natural parent" seems like it should mean one who donated half the chromosomes.

If the lover wants to claim custodial rights or visitation rights, she may have a basis to sue, but the judge claiming that this woman is the "natural parent" is just false.

Not in the blind eyes of the law it isn't. You're taking it out of context IMO.

[Hobbit]

Not in the blind eyes of the law it isn't. You're taking it out of context IMO.

Justice is blind, not stupid.

[Mr. P]

Justice is blind, not stupid.

Yup. Tis what they say.

[Hobbit]

Yup. Tis what they say.

I'm tempted to take it back. After seeing the legal case of a schoolyard insult, I'm starting to think justice is stupid.

[Nienna]

I'm tempted to take it back. After seeing the legal case of a schoolyard insult, I'm starting to think justice is stupid.

Or maybe it isn't really "justice."