The Low Road to Victory

[red states rule]

The DNC Times (NY Times) which one endorsed Hillary for President, is in a tizzy over the results of the PA primary

The Times is also ignoring the facts. The Times claims nothing has changed, Hillary's win was not huge, and go into more Bush bashing



Editorial
The Low Road to Victory

snip

Mrs. Clinton did not get the big win in Pennsylvania that she needed to challenge the calculus of the Democratic race. It is true that Senator Barack Obama outspent her 2-to-1. But Mrs. Clinton and her advisers should mainly blame themselves, because, as the political operatives say, they went heavily negative and ended up squandering a good part of what was once a 20-point lead.

On the eve of this crucial primary, Mrs. Clinton became the first Democratic candidate to wave the bloody shirt of 9/11. A Clinton television ad — torn right from Karl Rove’s playbook — evoked the 1929 stock market crash, Pearl Harbor, the Cuban missile crisis, the cold war and the 9/11 attacks, complete with video of Osama bin Laden. “If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen,” the narrator intoned.

If that was supposed to bolster Mrs. Clinton’s argument that she is the better prepared to be president in a dangerous world, she sent the opposite message on Tuesday morning by declaring in an interview on ABC News that if Iran attacked Israel while she were president: “We would be able to totally obliterate them.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/23/opinion/23wed1.html?_r=1&ref=opinion&oref=slogin

[OCA]

55-45 is not a huge victory in your eyes? It was in the eyes of political experts across the country.

Its over, Hillary will roll from here on out and that momentum will swing the superdelegates in her favor come convention time and then its on to a landslide over Demo Johnny.

When will people acknowledge its going just as I predicted? lol

[red states rule]

55-45 is not a huge victory in your eyes? It was in the eyes of political experts across the country.

Its over, Hillary will roll from here on out and that momentum will swing the superdelegates in her favor come convention time and then its on to a landslide over Demo Johnny.

When will people acknowledge its going just as I predicted? lol

Can you read OCA - I am taking the DNC Times to task by trying to deny her win was huge

[Dilloduck]

55-45 is not a huge victory in your eyes? It was in the eyes of political experts across the country.

Its over, Hillary will roll from here on out and that momentum will swing the superdelegates in her favor come convention time and then its on to a landslide over Demo Johnny.

When will people acknowledge its going just as I predicted? lol

I've been right there with ya and I still believe she will pull it off. There are an awful lot of wishful predictions being made here that are gonig down the tubes.

[retiredman]

single digit win. more than I thought she would get, but still not big enough to overtake Obama.

[OCA]

Can you read OCA - I am taking the DNC Times to task by trying to deny her win was huge

My apologies RSR, but your harping on the fact that her only hope is the V.P. slot when she has the support of a majority of Demos makes one puzzle at your inconsistency sometimes.

[OCA]

single digit win. more than I thought she would get, but still not big enough to overtake Obama.

MFM you simply are in denial, momentum will be the biggest factor going into the convention in terms of superdelegates and the heart and soul of the Demos, middle class blue collars, have left Obama in droves to support Hillary and they won't be returning after he has disrespected them. Simply put no Demo can win without their support, Hillary has their support and for that will receive the support of the superdelegates.

[retiredman]

MFM you simply are in denial, momentum will be the biggest factor going into the convention in terms of superdelegates and the heart and soul of the Demos, middle class blue collars, have left Obama in droves to support Hillary and they won't be returning after he has disrespected them. Simply put no Demo can win without their support, Hillary has their support and for that will receive the support of the superdelegates.

that is your opinion. time will tell if it is accurate. I doubt it will be.

[red states rule]

My apologies RSR, but your harping on the fact that her only hope is the V.P. slot when she has the support of a majority of Demos makes one puzzle at your inconsistency sometimes.

I never said her only hope was the VP slot - I have said she would never take it

With Hillary it is all or nothing

Apology accepted OCA - no offense taken

[OCA]

that is your opinion. time will tell if it is accurate. I doubt it will be.

Yes it is my opinion but its being played out before our very eyes. She was supposed to be done in Texas and Ohio, I said no, she would win both*OCA correct*, I said she would win big in PA *OCA correct*.......now you see articles on superdelegates rethinking their support of Osama because they know he has fucked himself with the Demo base.

[retiredman]

Yes it is my opinion but its being played out before our very eyes. She was supposed to be done in Texas and Ohio, I said no, she would win both*OCA correct*, I said she would win big in PA *OCA correct*.......now you see articles on superdelegates rethinking their support of Osama because they know he has fucked himself with the Demo base.


time will tell. I wonder if you will bother to eat a giant bowl of humble pie with a side of crow if Obama is nominated?

[OCA]

time will tell. I wonder if you will bother to eat a giant bowl of humble pie with a side of crow if Obama is nominated?


Well maybe, more likely i'll laugh because in an election cycle where basically Demos had the oval office just sitting there on a platter you will have blown it.

[retiredman]

Well maybe, more likely i'll laugh because in an election cycle where basically Demos had the oval office just sitting there on a platter you will have blown it.
and when Obama takes the oath of office, then what?

[Hobbit]

and when Obama takes the oath of office, then what?

I'll bolt upright screaming, then realize that it wasn't real and go back to sleep.

[OCA]

and when Obama takes the oath of office, then what?


:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

Like that has a chance in hell of happening! Lets deal in reality only.

[Pale Rider]

Dick Morris just now on the Suan Hannity show, saying that there is no possible way Hillary can win the nomination, period. Hussein has got it. The only way Hillary will get the nomination will be if the super delegates give it to her, and if that happens, the democrat party will erupt in utter civil war, a total melt down. Course that may happen if hussein gets the nomination too. So either way, the dems are in a world of hurt right now.

[OCA]

Dick Morris just now on the Suan Hannity show, saying that there is no possible way Hillary can win the nomination, period. Hussein has got it. The only way Hillary will get the nomination will be if the super delegates give it to her, and if that happens, the democrat party will erupt in utter civil war, a total melt down. Course that may happen if hussein gets the nomination too. So either way, the dems are in a world of hurt right now.

Dick Morris? The same Dick Morris who got caught on tape with a whore? He don't know shit, if he did he's have a real job instead of just running his piehole on Fox.

By the time the convention rolls around it will be clear that the majority of Demos support Hillary, the supers will go to her and she will get the nomination. Now if Osama is a party guy he will take the V.P. slot and the Demos will sweep into office, if not it will be the end of his political career, they will crush him.

[DragonStryk72]

55-45 is not a huge victory in your eyes? It was in the eyes of political experts across the country.

Its over, Hillary will roll from here on out and that momentum will swing the superdelegates in her favor come convention time and then its on to a landslide over Demo Johnny.

When will people acknowledge its going just as I predicted? lol

I don't think so, honestly, because Hilary went the fear monger's route, and that won't sit well with a hell of alot of people. When she used 9/11, I think that slapped a large number of people in the face, and this whole thing is going to blow up in her own face, by her own actions.

[DragonStryk72]

My apologies RSR, but your harping on the fact that her only hope is the V.P. slot when she has the support of a majority of Demos makes one puzzle at your inconsistency sometimes.

majority of Dems in PA, not the country. She's losing alot of the support base that she originally built, in large part to her own tactics of running a campaign.

[Kathianne]

IF Hillary should win, I think it will fracture the Democratic Party for years to come. I can't see them letting that happen, but then again, 'they never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.'

It would be historic, this election is their's and they are destroying themselves, at least so far.

[OCA]

IF Hillary should win, I think it will fracture the Democratic Party for years to come. I can't see them letting that happen, but then again, 'they never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.'

It would be historic, this election is their's and they are destroying themselves, at least so far.

How do you figure? She is the only one NOW that I believe can whoop Johnny boy and that is all Demos care about. I used to think Osama could too but after the last two weeks and the Dem base deserting him he doesn't stand a chance in a general election.

No, Demos will bicker for about a week then unite and steam roll with Hillary in the general election after they hang Iraq around Johnny boy's neck like a nosse.

[OCA]

majority of Dems in PA, not the country. She's losing alot of the support base that she originally built, in large part to her own tactics of running a campaign.

Not really, according to most polls(and i'm not a big poll person but after I see about 10 different and they all say the same thing......) Hillary has pulled ahead nationally among Dems so i'd say her base is growing.

In regards to tactics...they are working if you consider victories to be a positive result, if they weren't working the victories wouldn't come.

[OCA]

I don't think so, honestly, because Hilary went the fear monger's route, and that won't sit well with a hell of alot of people. When she used 9/11, I think that slapped a large number of people in the face, and this whole thing is going to blow up in her own face, by her own actions.

Not really. Remember her campaign team, which consists of alot of people from Bill's old campaign staff are the best the business has ever known, they won't let things blow up, come convention time it will be all wine and roses for Hillary.

[glockmail]

How do you figure? She is the only one NOW that I believe can whoop Johnny boy and that is all Demos care about. I used to think Osama could too but after the last two weeks and the Dem base deserting him he doesn't stand a chance in a general election.

No, Demos will bicker for about a week then unite and steam roll with Hillary in the general election after they hang Iraq around Johnny boy's neck like a nosse.
Oh, man. The only time I've seen you more wrong is when you suggested that ass sex was OK as long as it was with a woman. Since you're a filthy Greek bastard I let that slide.

92% of blacks voted for Obama in PA. That means that EVERY black Democrat, and about 20% of black Republicans voted for him. He is their guy. The Democrats have been pandering to the blacks since the 60's and have never delivered on their promise of equality. Now they have a chance to not just be equal but superior to their white masters. If Hillary steals this away from them all hell will break loose. I'm predicting riots, looting, gunshots, fire- shit-fire! as we say here.

[red states rule]

majority of Dems in PA, not the country. She's losing alot of the support base that she originally built, in large part to her own tactics of running a campaign.

Hillary has been carrying blue color workers, white women, and Catholics

Obama won only about 4 counties in the entire ztate of PA, BArrry is showing the SD's what a weak candidate he will be in Nov

The SD's are Hillary's only chance - and she is starting to make her case

[OCA]

Oh, man. The only time I've seen you more wrong is when you suggested that ass sex was OK as long as it was with a woman. Since you're a filthy Greek bastard I let that slide.

92% of blacks voted for Obama in PA. That means that EVERY black Democrat, and about 20% of black Republicans voted for him. He is their guy. The Democrats have been pandering to the blacks since the 60's and have never delivered on their promise of equality. Now they have a chance to not just be equal but superior to their white masters. If Hillary steals this away from them all hell will break loose. I'm predicting riots, looting, gunshots, fire- shit-fire! as we say here.


Blacks are 13% of the population and of that 13% percent i'd say that less than 1% are Republicans so do the math.....there are not enough of them to give a shit about, plus the fact Dems already don't give a shit about Blacks, you get the picture.

No Demos care about 1 thing, getting back to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave and they will know come convention time Hilary is their only chance so they will kick Osama to the curb, riots or no fucking riots.

[retiredman]

Hillary has been carrying blue color workers, white women, and Catholics

Obama won only about 4 counties in the entire ztate of PA, BArrry is showing the SD's what a weak candidate he will be in Nov

The SD's are Hillary's only chance - and she is starting to make her case

at issue, of course is whether blue COLLAR workers ( are there really people who are actually colored blue who work in your area?) white women and catholics would prefer another four years of Bush-o-nomics, and 100 more years of Iraq to the idea of having a negro in the white house, eh?

[OCA]

at issue, of course is whether blue COLLAR workers ( are there really people who are actually colored blue who work in your area?) white women and catholics would prefer another four years of Bush-o-nomics, and 100 more years of Iraq to the idea of having a negro in the white house, eh?

Speaking of that..............did anyone hear that they've been tearing up the west lawn of the White House lately?

[red states rule]

at issue, of course is whether blue COLLAR workers ( are there really people who are actually colored blue who work in your area?) white women and catholics would prefer another four years of Bush-o-nomics, and 100 more years of Iraq to the idea of having a negro in the white house, eh?

Oh my, the Lyin King caught an error

Feel warm and fuzzy now?

[retiredman]

Oh my, the Lyin King caught an error

Feel warm and fuzzy now?

no. I wonder if you might answer the question.

And DON'T call me a liar, baldy.

[OCA]

And DON'T call me a liar, baldy.

Oh shit! Not even I would go there!

[red states rule]

no. I wonder if you might answer the question.

And DON'T call me a liar, baldy.

Yes, the truth does hurt you everytime

It is such a foreign object to you

[OCA]

Speaking of that..............did anyone hear that they've been tearing up the west lawn of the White House lately?

Fuck Glock, hook me up with a "really, why are they tearing it up OCA?", will ya for the love of christ?

[retiredman]

Yes, the truth does hurt you everytime

It is such a foreign object to you

I have never lied on this or any other online site....

unlike you....

[retiredman]

Fuck Glock, hook me up with a "really, why are they tearing it up OCA?", will ya for the love of christ?

I will

Why are they tearing it up, OCA?

[OCA]

I will

Why are they tearing it up, OCA?


In case there is a need to have a big watermelon patch in the summer of 2009.

[red states rule]

I have never lied on this or any other online site....

unlike you....

Well, add another one to your growing list

[retiredman]

Well, add another one to your growing list

fuck you baldy. I don't lie and I hate bald motherfuckers like you who say I do. The only good thing is that I won't have to worry about it for all that much longer.

[red states rule]

fuck you baldy. I don't lie and I hate bald motherfuckers like you who say I do. The only good thing is that I won't have to worry about it for all that much longer.

now to a temper tamtrum :laugh2:

[retiredman]

now to a temper tamtrum

not at all. MY temper is completely under control.... baldy.:lol:

[Yurt]

not at all. MY temper is completely under control.... baldy.:lol:

shows class to make fun of someone going through chemo therapy, real class....amen "preacher"... your jesus obviously never healed the sick

[retiredman]

shows class to make fun of someone going through chemo therapy, real class....amen "preacher"... your jesus obviously never healed the sick

as I said, you insult me repeatedly, even after I have asked nicely for you to refrain, you really open yourself up to a wide range of responses. And MY Jesus is clearly different than yours.... Jews don't really believe in Jesus as the messiah, do they, yarmulke boy?

[Yurt]

as I said, you insult me repeatedly, even after I have asked nicely for you to refrain, you really open yourself up to a wide range of responses. And MY Jesus is clearly different than yours.... Jews don't really believe in Jesus as the messiah, do they, yarmulke boy?

see, your lies continue unabaited. you know full well i am not jewish, it has been proven to your sorry self over and over, yet you continue with your lies.

you refuted that you said i was not an attorney, lie again:


I did address the thread. you are a whiny petulant little child, and certainly ain't no attorney.

that is only one example. care to apologize now or do you solely want to continue your petty nonsense?

[retiredman]

see, your lies continue unabaited. you know full well i am not jewish, it has been proven to your sorry self over and over, yet you continue with your lies.

you refuted that you said i was not an attorney, lie again:



that is only one example. care to apologize now or do you solely want to continue your petty nonsense?

like I said, if you are an attorney, you certainly aren't a very good one. Aren't you 30+ years old, still not a partner, getting ready to have your "hours" cut back by the return of some other lawyer from maternity leave? Methinks that you might be a lawyer in name only, but clearly, son, you need to find a different line of work. My father left a successful partnership at your age to go serve in the Army Air Corps in WWII and he came back to found a firm which now has over 40 attorneys and still has his name at the top of the masthead. Really. Have you thought about insurance sales or maybe used cars?

[Yurt]

like I said, if you are an attorney, you certainly aren't a very good one. Aren't you 30+ years old, still not a partner, getting ready to have your "hours" cut back by the return of some other lawyer from maternity leave? Methinks that you might be a lawyer in name only, but clearly, son, you need to find a different line of work. My father left a successful partnership at your age to go serve in the Army Air Corps in WWII and he came back to found a firm which now has over 40 attorneys and still has his name at the top of the masthead. Really. Have you thought about insurance sales or maybe used cars?

i've been an attorney for less than a year moron. i also think you are lying about your father like you lie about everything else. so you can keep your opinions, i don't need them.

for someone who whines and moans about people insulting him, you sure like to get very personal in your insults. not sure what made you such a bitter old man who gets his rocks off pissing on and pissing off people on the internet, but you should get some professional help.

[retiredman]

i've been an attorney for less than a year moron. i also think you are lying about your father like you lie about everything else. so you can keep your opinions, i don't need them.

for someone who whines and moans about people insulting him, you sure like to get very personal in your insults. not sure what made you such a bitter old man who gets his rocks off pissing on and pissing off people on the internet, but you should get some professional help.

and look at all the people that I don't insult on this board. what do they all have in common? they all have not insulted me. I dish out what is given to me.... nothing less. wanna play nice and cordial with me, watch me respond in kind.

[red states rule]

and look at all the people that I don't insult on this board. what do they all have in common? they all have not insulted me. I dish out what is given to me.... nothing less. wanna play nice and cordial with me, watch me respond in kind.

It could also be they never respond to your posts :laugh2:

[red states rule]

I will now try to bring this thread back on topic

The Dem party is in big trouble, and it will only get worse.

Deepening Democratic Dilemma
By Robert Novak

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- When exit polls for the Pennsylvania primary came out late Tuesday afternoon showing a puny lead of 3.6 points for Hillary Clinton against Barack Obama, Democratic leaders who desperately wanted her to end her candidacy were not cheered. They were sure that this overstated Sen. Obama's strength, as exit polls nearly always have in urban, diverse states. How was it possible, then, that Sen. Clinton, given up for dead by her party's establishment, won Pennsylvania in a 10-point landslide? The answer is the dreaded Bradley Effect.

Prominent Democrats only whisper when they compare Obama, the first African-American with a serious chance to be president, with what happened to Los Angeles' black Mayor Tom Bradley a quarter of a century ago. Exit polls in 1982 showed Bradley ahead for governor of California, but he actually lost to Republican George Deukmejian. Pollster John Zogby (who correctly predicted Clinton's double-digit win Tuesday) said what practicing Democrats would not. "I think voters face-to-face are not willing to say they would oppose an African-American candidate," Zogby told me.

If there really is a Bradley Effect in 2008, Zogby sees November peril ahead for Obama in blue states. John McCain is a potential winner not only in Pennsylvania but also Michigan, Wisconsin and Minnesota, and can retain Ohio. But there seems no way Clinton can overtake Obama's lead in delegates and the popular vote. For unelected super-delegates to deprive Obama of the nomination would so depress African-American general election votes that the nomination would be worthless. In a year when all normal political indicators point to Republican defeat on all fronts, the Democratic Party faces a deepening dilemma.

for the complete article
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/04/the_deepening_democratic_dilem.html

[glockmail]

Speaking of that..............did anyone hear that they've been tearing up the west lawn of the White House lately?Really, why are they tearing it up OCA? :lol:

[glockmail]

not at all. MY temper is completely under control.... baldy.:lol: What's wrong with being bald, limp dick? :poke:

[red states rule]

What's wrong with being bald, limp dick? :poke:

MFM has a nose like Jimmy Durante which he uses to look down upon people. He really can't help it :laugh2:

[glockmail]

MFM has a nose like Jimmy Durante which he uses to look down upon people. He realy can't help it :laugh2: That red shine on top of my head in the avatar looks like a helmet, but I just had a really bad sunburn that day, and was sweating. :laugh2:

[red states rule]

That red shine on top of my head in the avatar looks like a helmet, but I just had a really bad sunburn that day, and was sweating. :laugh2:

I can tell from the pic, global wamring has really devestated the area you were vacationing at :laugh2:

[glockmail]

I can tell from the pic, global wamring has really devestated the area you were vacationing at :laugh2: Yeah it really has. They had the longest season since their opening in the early 70's. :coffee:

[red states rule]

Yeah it really has. They had the longest season since their opening in the early 70's. :coffee:

Where is Uncle Al when you need him? Probably buzzing the area in his private jet :laugh2:

[glockmail]

Where is Uncle Al when you need him? Probably buzzing the area in his private jet :laugh2: No doubt he's never drove through our beautiful flyover country, never mind sampled its delights. Thank God for that.

[retiredman]

What's wrong with being bald, limp dick? :poke:


not a thing. I shave my head every morning.:laugh2:

[red states rule]

Fear and panic are setting in with the liberal media. they can see the train wreck that is Obama

If they can see it, why not the rank anf file left?


The Incredibly Shrinking Democrats
JOE KLEIN

snip

But that was nothing compared with the damage done to Obama, who entered the primary as a fresh breeze and left it stale, battered and embittered — still the mathematical favorite for the nomination but no longer the darling of his party. In the course of six weeks, the American people learned that he was a member of a church whose pastor gave angry, anti-American sermons, that he was "friendly" with an American terrorist who had bombed buildings during the Vietnam era, and that he seemed to look on the ceremonies of working-class life — bowling, hunting, churchgoing and the fervent consumption of greasy food — as his anthropologist mother might have, with a mixture of cool detachment and utter bemusement. All of which deepened the skepticism that Caucasians, especially those without a college degree, had about a young, inexperienced African-American guy with an Islamic-sounding name and a highfalutin fluency with language. And worse, it raised questions among the elders of the party about Obama's ability to hold on to crucial Rust Belt bastions like Pennsylvania, Michigan and New Jersey in the general election — and to add long-suffering Ohio to the Democratic column.

Yes, yes, the bulk of the sludge was caricature, and some of it, especially the stuff circulating on the Internet, was scurrilous trash. But there is an immutable pedestrian reality to American politics: you have to get the social body language right if you want voters to consider the nobler reaches of your message. In his 1991 book, The Reasoning Voter, political scientist Samuel Popkin argued that most people make their choice on the basis of "low-information signaling" — that is, stupid things like whether you know how to roll a bowling ball or wear an American-flag pin. In the era of Republican dominance, the low-information signals were really low — how Michael Dukakis looked in a tanker's helmet, whether John Kerry's favorite sports were too precious (like wind-surfing), whether Al Gore's debate sighs over his opponent's simple obfuscations were patronizing. Bill Clinton was the lone Democratic master of low-information signaling — a love of McDonald's and other assorted big-gulp appetites gave him credibility that even trumped his evasion of military service.

The audacity of the Obama campaign was the belief that in a time of trouble — as opposed to the peace and prosperity of the late 20th century — the low-information politics of the past could be tossed aside in favor of a high-minded, if deliberately vague, appeal to the nation's need to finally address some huge problems. But that assumption hit a wall in Pennsylvania. Specifically, it hit a wall at the debate staged by ABC News in Philadelphia — viewed by an audience of 10 million, including a disproportionate number of Pennsylvanians — that will go down in history for the relentless vulgarity of its questions, with the first 40 minutes focused exclusively on so-called character issues rather than policy. Obama was on the defensive from the start, but gradually the defensiveness morphed into bitter frustration. He kept his cool — a very presidential character trait — and allowed his disdain to show only when he was asked a question about his opponent's Bosnia gaffe. "Senator Clinton deserves the right to make some errors once in a while," he said. "What's important is to make sure that we don't get so obsessed with gaffes that we lose sight of the fact that this is a defining moment in our history."

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1734643,00.html

[red states rule]

not a thing. I shave my head every morning.:laugh2:

I thought a nurse did that before you went into surgery

[OCA]

Really, why are they tearing it up OCA? :lol:

As I stated early they are preparing the grounds in case there is need for a watermelon patch in the summer of 2009.

[glockmail]

As I stated early they are preparing the grounds in case there is need for a watermelon patch in the summer of 2009. Ba-ba-boom-ttsssshhhhh....

[glockmail]

not a thing. I shave my head every morning.:laugh2: I bet you lather cream over both of them. :laugh2: