why rural Americans might be bitter

[midcan5]

It's the Wal-Marts, Stupid by Jordan Stancil

My town's sad spiral shows why rural Americans might be "bitter".

"Barack Obama's clumsy remarks on the links between culture and economics in small-town America have unleashed the predictable charges of "elitism" from his opponents. In a typical example, William Kristol wrote in his New York Times column that Senator Obama was "disdainful of small-town America--one might say, of bourgeois America."

The problem is that small-town America can no longer be characterized as "bourgeois." Bourgeois people are supposed to own things. But over the past few decades, rural Americans have seen their ownership of their communities hollowed out by relentless consolidation in the retail and financial sectors--to say nothing of agriculture. While Obama is right to emphasize the fact that rural areas are hurting financially, the problem is not just cyclical changes in the economy but a deeper crisis of ownership."

http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=aafd91f9-3162-4ece-892c-be78f45d1b1a

[Dilloduck]

It's the Wal-Marts, Stupid by Jordan Stancil

My town's sad spiral shows why rural Americans might be "bitter".

"Barack Obama's clumsy remarks on the links between culture and economics in small-town America have unleashed the predictable charges of "elitism" from his opponents. In a typical example, William Kristol wrote in his New York Times column that Senator Obama was "disdainful of small-town America--one might say, of bourgeois America."

The problem is that small-town America can no longer be characterized as "bourgeois." Bourgeois people are supposed to own things. But over the past few decades, rural Americans have seen their ownership of their communities hollowed out by relentless consolidation in the retail and financial sectors--to say nothing of agriculture. While Obama is right to emphasize the fact that rural areas are hurting financially, the problem is not just cyclical changes in the economy but a deeper crisis of ownership."

http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=aafd91f9-3162-4ece-892c-be78f45d1b1a

Small town bitterness comes from not owning things ? They probably lost their sense of what's important first.

[manu1959]

Small town bitterness comes from not owning things ? They probably lost their sense of what's important first.

the liberal mantra.......materialism makes you happy.....

[avatar4321]

can't imagine rural people are bitter. nor that they've been unemployed. Cause obviously if they were they would move someplace there was a job and wouldnt be rural.

[Yurt]

the liberal mantra.......materialism makes you happy.....

since you have more happiness and materialism than I, we should tax you more than others so I can have what you have, or as close to it as possible. your wealth makes me unhappy, envious, that is not good for the state, if you happen to make over 200,000 a year, i propose we raise your taxes and no one else's.

[Dilloduck]

since you have more happiness and materialism than I, we should tax you more than others so I can have what you have, or as close to it as possible. your wealth makes me unhappy, envious, that is not good for the state, if you happen to make over 200,000 a year, i propose we raise your taxes and no one else's.

It's the only fair thing to do.

[midcan5]

Most people who are bitter are bitter by personality but having things tough can make one more bitter, not sure why that is so hard for some to understand. If the Danish are the happiest people there must be some reason. I'll leave that open to discussion.

[Said1]

Most people who are bitter are bitter by personality but having things tough can make one more bitter, not sure why that is so hard for some to understand. If the Danish are the happiest people there must be some reason. I'll leave that open to discussion.

Apparently, they have low expectations and lots of subsized childcare. Who could ask for more?

[DragonStryk72]

the liberal mantra.......materialism makes you happy.....

No, but having a home that is yours, really yours, does make life a bit easier all around.

[Yurt]

No, but having a home that is yours, really yours, does make life a bit easier all around.

not always, you own it, you fix it, taxes, etc... sometimes, especially in this market, renting makes sense

[82Marine89]

not always, you own it, you fix it, taxes, etc... sometimes, especially in this market, renting makes sense

I thought only Cheese Whiz actually owned his house?

[Yurt]

I thought only Cheese Whiz actually owned his house?

how could i forget the greatness hisself... owning 3 trailors worth a total of 25K outright takes mad skills

[DragonStryk72]

not always, you own it, you fix it, taxes, etc... sometimes, especially in this market, renting makes sense

Right, but it is this exact market that is so discouraging. Unless you are making some really good money, you are either renting, or you are using an interest only loan that you can never really pay off. It really wasn't always like this either, and nor does it have to be like this.

We simply do not have the people in power on either side, who are going to make a difference in this.

[Yurt]

Right, but it is this exact market that is so discouraging. Unless you are making some really good money, you are either renting, or you are using an interest only loan that you can never really pay off. It really wasn't always like this either, and nor does it have to be like this.

We simply do not have the people in power on either side, who are going to make a difference in this.

i don't follow...if renting is not bad...then what are you saying?

[DragonStryk72]

i don't follow...if renting is not bad...then what are you saying?

I am saying that, in general, most people do want ownership. Would you rather own your own home, or rent one from someone else your whole life? Most people in this country want the former, and especially in rural towns, that has been the way of things for most of their lives.

[Yurt]

I am saying that, in general, most people do want ownership. Would you rather own your own home, or rent one from someone else your whole life? Most people in this country want the former, and especially in rural towns, that has been the way of things for most of their lives.

i've already discussed this. it can be bad at times to own outright, like now. you seem like a pretty smart guy, so what do you think about the hundreds of thousands of people who tried to own their home outright and lost hundreds of thousands of dollars?

lets say you own your home outright... the value of that property is now 1 mill, but when you bought it the value was 50K. you have no income, you are elderly and rely on a fixed income and the county/state says your property taxes are a "mere FIVE PERCENT" of your property value.

[DragonStryk72]

i've already discussed this. it can be bad at times to own outright, like now. you seem like a pretty smart guy, so what do you think about the hundreds of thousands of people who tried to own their home outright and lost hundreds of thousands of dollars?

lets say you own your home outright... the value of that property is now 1 mill, but when you bought it the value was 50K. you have no income, you are elderly and rely on a fixed income and the county/state says your property taxes are a "mere FIVE PERCENT" of your property value.

You're misunderstanding what I'm saying, Yurt. The housing market is part of the problem, had there been steadier, more reliable jobs that paid decently, such as factory work, a big business in rural areas, you would not have seen nearly as much of people trying to flip houses, which also added in to the overall cluster fuck that is the current housing market.

Separate of that, most people, regardless of circumstance, do want to own their own home. When that is denied, or worse, when they achieve it only to lose the house to bankruptcy because the house market burst, and all the jobs at the factory dried up to go overseas, they do get angry, but who at? The banks? the government? the corporations? The foreign country? These people have an anger that they can't actually unleash, really, and so, for many, it turns inward.

[red states rule]

You're misunderstanding what I'm saying, Yurt. The housing market is part of the problem, had there been steadier, more reliable jobs that paid decently, such as factory work, a big business in rural areas, you would not have seen nearly as much of people trying to flip houses, which also added in to the overall cluster fuck that is the current housing market.

Separate of that, most people, regardless of circumstance, do want to own their own home. When that is denied, or worse, when they achieve it only to lose the house to bankruptcy because the house market burst, and all the jobs at the factory dried up to go overseas, they do get angry, but who at? The banks? the government? the corporations? The foreign country? These people have an anger that they can't actually unleash, really, and so, for many, it turns inward.

Do you have any idead what the main reason is for people losing their home?

It is not the ARM's they signed for. It is the increase in theor payment when their taxes and h/o ins increase - is causing their monthly escrow payment to go up

DO you know the top states with insane property taxes?

They are NY, NJ, MI, CA, nd FL 4 out 5 are heavy blue states that tax the hell out of the producers

[Hobbit]

This jackass of a columnist has the wrong crowd pegged. Small town America, first of all, isn't bitter. Second of all, the only people who don't like Wal-Mart are the crappy, overpriced specialty (i.e. 'mom and pop') stores that used to provide terrible service and shoddy products because they were the only spot in town. Sam Walton saw this, and saw how the big retailers who could do a better job wrote off everything between the coasts as unprofitable. He saw a vast, untapped market, and he went after it. Now, even people living in Earl, AR or Poteau, OK can drive down the street to a Wal-Mart and get decent products at low prices, rather than having to go to the high-priced specialty stores. Living in rural America as I do, I've seen this in effect. The good stores that the people truly liked stayed in business, usually through higher quality and better service. However, there are a lot of people who used to be on the chamber of commerce and hold all kinds of power and didn't care about the quality of their businesses because they didn't have to and blame Wal-Mart, rather than themselves, for their failures. It's all so retarded, and I get sick of hearing about it.

[red states rule]

This jackass of a columnist has the wrong crowd pegged. Small town America, first of all, isn't bitter. Second of all, the only people who don't like Wal-Mart are the crappy, overpriced specialty (i.e. 'mom and pop') stores that used to provide terrible service and shoddy products because they were the only spot in town. Sam Walton saw this, and saw how the big retailers who could do a better job wrote off everything between the coasts as unprofitable. He saw a vast, untapped market, and he went after it. Now, even people living in Earl, AR or Poteau, OK can drive down the street to a Wal-Mart and get decent products at low prices, rather than having to go to the high-priced specialty stores. Living in rural America as I do, I've seen this in effect. The good stores that the people truly liked stayed in business, usually through higher quality and better service. However, there are a lot of people who used to be on the chamber of commerce and hold all kinds of power and didn't care about the quality of their businesses because they didn't have to and blame Wal-Mart, rather than themselves, for their failures. It's all so retarded, and I get sick of hearing about it.

I get nearly everything from Wal Mart, Clothes, pet food, my groceries, and tolitries. The prices are good, and I get what I want quick and easy

Wal Mart has done more for working people then ay damn government program ever has

[midcan5]

I get nearly everything from Wal Mart, Clothes, pet food, my groceries, and tolitries. The prices are good, and I get what I want quick and easy

Wal Mart has done more for working people then ay damn government program ever has

But has it done any thing good for Americans, I realize it has done great things for the Chinese worker but it has definitely negatively affected American wages.

[Yurt]

But has it done any thing good for Americans, I realize it has done great things for the Chinese worker but it has definitely negatively affected American wages.

really? proof?

[midcan5]

Apparently, they have low expectations and lots of subsized childcare. Who could ask for more?

So that is the philosophy of Happiness for you, pretty easy stuff.

[midcan5]

really? proof?

http://www.walmartmovie.com/facts.php

[manu1959]

http://www.walmartmovie.com/facts.php

so shop at whole foods then....

[Said1]

So that is the philosophy of Happiness for you, pretty easy stuff.

I'm not Danish. I would appreciate more subsidized childcare SPOTS, though.

Low expectations does seem to give them the advantage of being happier.

[red states rule]

http://www.walmartmovie.com/facts.php

Wal Mart is a target from unions since they refuse to allow them to infest their company

Wal Mart does not want unions to do to their company what they did to Detroit

[manu1959]

Wal Mart is a target from unions since they refuse to allow them to infest their company

Wal Mart does not want unions to do to their company what they did to Detroit

i can not think of one "profession" that was made better by unions.....

they have destroyed the auto industry.....steel......they are working on the medical profession.....construction......police and fire......

[red states rule]

i can not think of one "profession" that was made better by unions.....

they have destroyed the auto industry.....steel......they are working on the medical profession.....construction......police and fire......

If I think on one I will let you know

[midcan5]

so shop at whole foods then....

Sometimes but a little weird for my tastes and nothing healthy tastes good. lol

[midcan5]

If I think on one I will let you know

The writers in Hollywood - lol - seriously all of us as fear of unionization has created a higher standard of living.


Wal Mart is a target from unions since they refuse to allow them to infest their company

Wal Mart does not want unions to do to their company what they did to Detroit

I was playing Pete Seeger's Union song the other day for my granddaughter and I had to laugh when I read what you guys write. Folk music is great for small ones as they can sing along. Seeger is one of the real heroes of our world. She's too small to understand the importance they had in our history, what's your excuse?

http://www.last.fm/music/Pete+Seeger/_/Talking+Union

[Nukeman]

The writers in Hollywood - lol - seriously all of us as fear of unionization has created a higher standard of living.



I was playing Pete Seeger's Union song the other day for my granddaughter and I had to laugh when I read what you guys write. Folk music is great for small ones as they can sing along. Seeger is one of the real heroes of our world. She's too small to understand the importance they had in our history, what's your excuse?

http://www.last.fm/music/Pete+Seeger/_/Talking+Union

You misinterpret what some on here are saying about unions!

There was a time and a place for unions and they deffinitely did a world of good, then the crooks took over and it became more about the money than it did the helping of the workers.

I have a number of family memebers that currently work or have worked in the automotive industry and have seen the good and the bad of unions. My father was a die hard union supporter (he was even an officer) the shop he worked in "SHUT DOWN" due to the demands of the union, he lost all of his seniority and bene's. H now works in the exact same place but under private management and gets less money but more bring home due to no dues..... He has turned against the unions almost completely they cost him his job and pension.

I have seen the autoworkers union fight to reinstate an employee after serving time for theft from GM (you know that place he was working for).

The unions have gone beyond HELPING the employee's and have gone to the helping themselves. Don't you ever wonder why you spend 25,000 dollars for a new car, it sure isn't because of the materials in it, your paying for someone with a high school education to stand there and rivit something for 28.00 an hour PLUS BENE's, so your looking at an average of $40 an hour per employee. For unskilled labor, that my friend is f***ing nuts.

Unions were for a time when people were uneducated and just plain ignorant of the rules for proper business. I would hope that in today's environment people are a little more educated on their own rights and the resonsiblity of the company. the unions were there prior to gov't oversight, now with OSHA, the EEOC, and a whole slew of other gov't entities the US worker is better cared for than the union could ever hope to do. All they do now is demand more money and better bene's they aren't looking out for the employee anymore......

[midcan5]

Nukeman, I would agree with much of that, but Toyota pays the same wages as they are afraid of unionization and GM promised too much when things were good and the unions got too much power. The cost of a car today includes those great benefits for some who have been retired longer than they worked. I know a few. But as an American I can only buy American, I just can't buy foreign and while I agree that unions screwed up and are screwed up, it is the worker who ends up screwed.

[Nukeman]

Nukeman, I would agree with much of that, but Toyota pays the same wages as they are afraid of unionization and GM promised too much when things were good and the unions got too much power. The cost of a car today includes those great benefits for some who have been retired longer than they worked. I know a few. But as an American I can only buy American, I just can't buy foreign and while I agree that unions screwed up and are screwed up, it is the worker who ends up screwed.Usually by the UNIONS, who are there to "protect" them.... I am the same way I generaly buy American whenever I can however it is not always possible!

[manu1959]

Nukeman, I would agree with much of that, but Toyota pays the same wages as they are afraid of unionization and GM promised too much when things were good and the unions got too much power. The cost of a car today includes those great benefits for some who have been retired longer than they worked. I know a few. But as an American I can only buy American, I just can't buy foreign and while I agree that unions screwed up and are screwed up, it is the worker who ends up screwed.

it is impossible to buy american....most of the parts are not made in america.....