avatar4321
04-18-2008, 03:16 AM
http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695271689,00.html
Im probably going to take a rather controversial stand on this issue since i know the feelings of alot of you on this board. I don't know how well you've been following the polygamist "compound" being raided a few weeks ago on a supposed phone call alleging abuse that resulted in the entire communities children being taken away from them. With the link above, it looks like the woman who made the original phone calls alleging abuse may have been found, and those calls were a hoax.
I am rather mixed on the issue here. I detest these polygamists. And if there is abuse going on it needs to be taken care of immediately. But I am also a defense attorney, and quite honestly, the magnitude of the action taken here frightens me.
Since the story broke, I've had seen a number of stories that have m concerned on what's going on. First, it seemed odd that, from the evidence I've seen, two inconsistant phone calls from the same person provided the officers with enough probable cause to not only search the community to the extent they did but to remove 400+ children from their homes. Obviously, if there has been child abuse, the matter needs to be solved. The abusers need to go to jail and we have to do something to protect the children. But removing all the children regardless of whether there is evidence of abuse? It just seems very excessive.
in addition, it's also been clear that the some of the Texas Lawmakers have been specifically changing legislation to give the law enforcement power to go after this group. Texas Legislature discusses changing law in response to sect moving there (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/12/us/12raid.html?_r=1&em&ex=1208145600&en=a49bdc808f6af04e&ei=5087%0A&oref=slogin)
Child abuse is clearly an emotional crime. It pulls on the heart strings of people. And there are alot of people who dont reallycare what the government has to do to break this group up. From the time the group moved to Texas, thre have been people saying, "We all know they are abusing children." I was watching people interview the residents in the surrounding areas. Everyone "knows" something is happening. Yet, the government hasnt been able to find any probable to go in and search until now. I think if there had been evidence, law enforcement would have gone in a long time ago. The very scope and organization of their raid seems to be evidence that the State was planning this for a while. But Id think that if they did have real evidence, these cases would have been prosecuted years ago.
Everything I've seen in the media on this case just worries me. I know polygamy is unpopular and destestable to many people. (I can't imagine one angry wife, let alone several... scary thought). And this particular sect has a very bad image. However, I am very concerned that if people are willing to look the other way and allow the government to destroy them for the "sake of the children" that there is going to be nothing to stop the government from going after other unpopular religions and sects. Especially, if this woman did perpetuate a hoax to get this ball rolling.
I am also very concerned that if law enforcement jumped the gun on case, that they may have compromised any legitimate evidence they could find to prosecute anyone actually guilty of abuse. They have also reinforced the sects views that the world is out to get them which will make them even more recluse and harder to infiltrate for evidence.
I honestly don't know whether anyone is actually guilty of abuse. The State has the burden to prove that there was a crime committed. What I do know is that the action the state took is unprecedented. Nothing like this has ever happened before. And I am very concerned at what the precedent could become if everything isn't done by the book. If people are willing to overlook overzealous law enforcement by being so emotionally involved that they ignore the facts, we have bigger problems than the fact that some child abusers may be off the hook because evidence has to be suppressed. We may have the Due Process requirements of the law become completely subverted.
I have a feeling youll see this incident creating a number of cases and precedents and going before the US Supreme Court before it's over. I know alot of people are inclined to just want to destroy these people as child abusers. If I had it my way, child abusers would be put to death. But atleast wait till someone is atleast arrested before investing emotionally into seeing them fry. There are other huge legal issues involved in this case that being too emotional could blind us too. I honestly think this is going to have alot of legal precents come out of it that can be either bad or good for our nation as a whole.
This whole situation is ugly and unfortunate. Nothing good is going to come out of it.
Im probably going to take a rather controversial stand on this issue since i know the feelings of alot of you on this board. I don't know how well you've been following the polygamist "compound" being raided a few weeks ago on a supposed phone call alleging abuse that resulted in the entire communities children being taken away from them. With the link above, it looks like the woman who made the original phone calls alleging abuse may have been found, and those calls were a hoax.
I am rather mixed on the issue here. I detest these polygamists. And if there is abuse going on it needs to be taken care of immediately. But I am also a defense attorney, and quite honestly, the magnitude of the action taken here frightens me.
Since the story broke, I've had seen a number of stories that have m concerned on what's going on. First, it seemed odd that, from the evidence I've seen, two inconsistant phone calls from the same person provided the officers with enough probable cause to not only search the community to the extent they did but to remove 400+ children from their homes. Obviously, if there has been child abuse, the matter needs to be solved. The abusers need to go to jail and we have to do something to protect the children. But removing all the children regardless of whether there is evidence of abuse? It just seems very excessive.
in addition, it's also been clear that the some of the Texas Lawmakers have been specifically changing legislation to give the law enforcement power to go after this group. Texas Legislature discusses changing law in response to sect moving there (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/12/us/12raid.html?_r=1&em&ex=1208145600&en=a49bdc808f6af04e&ei=5087%0A&oref=slogin)
Child abuse is clearly an emotional crime. It pulls on the heart strings of people. And there are alot of people who dont reallycare what the government has to do to break this group up. From the time the group moved to Texas, thre have been people saying, "We all know they are abusing children." I was watching people interview the residents in the surrounding areas. Everyone "knows" something is happening. Yet, the government hasnt been able to find any probable to go in and search until now. I think if there had been evidence, law enforcement would have gone in a long time ago. The very scope and organization of their raid seems to be evidence that the State was planning this for a while. But Id think that if they did have real evidence, these cases would have been prosecuted years ago.
Everything I've seen in the media on this case just worries me. I know polygamy is unpopular and destestable to many people. (I can't imagine one angry wife, let alone several... scary thought). And this particular sect has a very bad image. However, I am very concerned that if people are willing to look the other way and allow the government to destroy them for the "sake of the children" that there is going to be nothing to stop the government from going after other unpopular religions and sects. Especially, if this woman did perpetuate a hoax to get this ball rolling.
I am also very concerned that if law enforcement jumped the gun on case, that they may have compromised any legitimate evidence they could find to prosecute anyone actually guilty of abuse. They have also reinforced the sects views that the world is out to get them which will make them even more recluse and harder to infiltrate for evidence.
I honestly don't know whether anyone is actually guilty of abuse. The State has the burden to prove that there was a crime committed. What I do know is that the action the state took is unprecedented. Nothing like this has ever happened before. And I am very concerned at what the precedent could become if everything isn't done by the book. If people are willing to overlook overzealous law enforcement by being so emotionally involved that they ignore the facts, we have bigger problems than the fact that some child abusers may be off the hook because evidence has to be suppressed. We may have the Due Process requirements of the law become completely subverted.
I have a feeling youll see this incident creating a number of cases and precedents and going before the US Supreme Court before it's over. I know alot of people are inclined to just want to destroy these people as child abusers. If I had it my way, child abusers would be put to death. But atleast wait till someone is atleast arrested before investing emotionally into seeing them fry. There are other huge legal issues involved in this case that being too emotional could blind us too. I honestly think this is going to have alot of legal precents come out of it that can be either bad or good for our nation as a whole.
This whole situation is ugly and unfortunate. Nothing good is going to come out of it.