Is Barack Obama A Marxist Mole?

[No_Socialism]

Article from AIM.org
http://www.aim.org/aim-report/is-barack-obama-a-marxist-mole/

Is Barack Obama A Marxist Mole?
AIM Report | March 18, 2008

In his biography of Barack Obama, David Mendell writes about Obama’s life as a “secret smoker” and how he “went to great lengths to conceal the habit.” But what about Obama’s secret political life? It turns out that Obama’s childhood mentor, Frank Marshall Davis, was a communist.

In his books, Obama admits attending “socialist conferences” and coming into contact with Marxist literature. But he ridicules the charge of being a “hard-core academic Marxist,” which was made by his colorful and outspoken 2004 U.S. Senate opponent, Republican Alan Keyes.

However, through Frank Marshall Davis, Obama had an admitted relationship with someone who was publicly identified as a member of the Communist Party USA (CPUSA). The record shows that Obama was in Hawaii from 1971-1979, where, at some point in time, he developed a close relationship, almost like a son, with Davis, listening to his “poetry” and getting advice on his career path. But Obama, in his book, Dreams From My Father, refers to him repeatedly as just “Frank.”

The reason is apparent: Davis was a known communist who belonged to a party subservient to the Soviet Union. In fact, the 1951 report of the Commission on Subversive Activities to the Legislature of the Territory of Hawaii identified him as a CPUSA member. What’s more, anti-communist congressional committees, including the House Un-American Activities Committee (HUAC), accused Davis of involvement in several communist-front organizations.

Trevor Loudon, a New Zealand-based libertarian activist, researcher and blogger, noted evidence that “Frank” was Frank Marshall Davis in a posting in March of 2007.
...

http://www.aim.org/aim-report/is-barack-obama-a-marxist-mole/

[Noir]

haven't had time to read it all, but at a glance it seems the ultimate smear, 'he has commie links!!!!!!'

[No_Socialism]

haven't had time to read it all, but at a glance it seems the ultimate smear, 'he has commie links!!!!!!'

It would be the ultimate smear if it wasn't true...

[stephanie]

He's not a mole..

He's spewing his Marxism right in our face..

You only have to read in between the lines of what he is actually saying..

[No_Socialism]

He's not a mole..

He's spewing his Marxism right in our face..

You only have to read in between the lines of what he is actually saying..

I agree. I would say that Obama is a "Democratic Socialist".

[Little-Acorn]

Obama, and Hillary, and Edwards, and nearly every other Democrat leader that has come down the pike recently, all push actively for taxing the rich and giving to the poor. Along with increasing government control of private industry, commerce, education, etc. Marxism agrees strongly with all these agenda items.

It's not news they are Marxists. It's just news that one of them said something that jives directly with Marxist literature, instead of their usual tactis of trying to hide their support for it.

[red states rule]

Obama, and Hillary, and Edwards, and nearly every other Democrat leader that has come down the pike recently, all push actively for taxing the rich and giving to the poor. Along with increasing government control of private industry, commerce, education, etc. Marxism agrees strongly with all these agenda items.

It's not news they are Marxists. It's just news that one of them said something that jives directly with Marxist literature, instead of their usual tactis of trying to hide their support for it.

We are learning more and more about Barry Obama with each passing day

Seems Barry's chickens are coming home to roost

[midcan5]

This thread needs to be moved to the conspiracy section or require a new Thread category. I would suggest, let's see:

"Your momma wears combat boots" - you know like when you were five and in a five year old's mind that's a great come back.

Or "What else ridiculous thing can we accuse him of?"

Or "Sometimes stupidity is contagious and I (the thread poster) caught it"

Or "Is there a difference between a marxist a communist a fascist or do I really need to read?" This could be a joke but then is a complete absence of education a joke?

Feel free to name this nonsense. Obama will probably be the devil soon or satan or hitler or maybe the wingnuts have already called him that - Stupidity your name is partisan hack.

[red states rule]

This thread needs to be moved to the conspiracy section or require a new Thread category. I would suggest, let's see:

"Your momma wears combat boots" - you know like when you were five and in a five year old's mind that's a great come back.

Or "What else ridiculous thing can we accuse him of?"

Or "Sometimes stupidity is contagious and I (the thread poster) caught it"

Or "Is there a difference between a marxist a communist a fascist or do I really need to read?" This could be a joke but then is a complete absence of education a joke?

Feel free to name this nonsense. Obama will probably be the devil soon or satan or hitler or maybe the wingnuts have already called him that - Stupidity you name is partisan hack.


My, you really defended Obama's liberalism

[stephanie]

This thread needs to be moved to the conspiracy section or require a new Thread category. I would suggest, let's see:

"Your momma wears combat boots" - you know like when you were five and in a five year old's mind that's a great come back.

Or "What else ridiculous thing can we accuse him of?"

Or "Sometimes stupidity is contagious and I (the thread poster) caught it"

Or "Is there a difference between a marxist a communist a fascist or do I really need to read?" This could be a joke but then is a complete absence of education a joke?

Feel free to name this nonsense. Obama will probably be the devil soon or satan or hitler or maybe the wingnuts have already called him that - Stupidity you name is partisan hack.

okey dokey..:rolleyes:

[red states rule]

okey dokey..:rolleyes:

Hey Stephanie. could you please cue up the theme from the Twilight Zone for midcan5?

[DragonStryk72]

It would be the ultimate smear if it wasn't true...

Okay, so he's a communist mole (religion is the opiate of the masses)
A Christian fundamentalist
and he's secretly a muslim now

Now, if he Marxist, then he doesn't believe in religion
and if Christian fundamentalist, he obviously isn't muslim or an athiest
and if he's secretly muslim, he's obviously not a christian, or an athiest.


So which one is it?

[avatar4321]

Not sure why he would be a mole. He is a Democrat. cant get much more marxist than that...

[diuretic]

I agree. I would say that Obama is a "Democratic Socialist".

If so then by definition he isn't a Marxist.

[diuretic]

Obama, and Hillary, and Edwards, and nearly every other Democrat leader that has come down the pike recently, all push actively for taxing the rich and giving to the poor. Along with increasing government control of private industry, commerce, education, etc. Marxism agrees strongly with all these agenda items.

It's not news they are Marxists. It's just news that one of them said something that jives directly with Marxist literature, instead of their usual tactis of trying to hide their support for it.

It's obvious you don't known anything about Marxism if that's what you believe. Or you could be smearing, either way doesn't matter. There is no Marxism in the Democratic Party.

[diuretic]

Maybe we need a "what is Marxism?" thread, but then I suppose no-one would be very interested because it wouldn't be a smear thread. We need a new version of Godwin's Law, only this one can substitute "Marxism" for "Nazism".

[Classact]

Okay, so he's a communist mole (religion is the opiate of the masses)
A Christian fundamentalist
and he's secretly a muslim now

Now, if he Marxist, then he doesn't believe in religion
and if Christian fundamentalist, he obviously isn't muslim or an athiest
and if he's secretly muslim, he's obviously not a christian, or an athiest.


So which one is it?A politician.

He's a Marxist politician that used Rev. Wright's church as a tool to gain political power in the South-side... he used the poor black population to vote him into office... he is an elite left wing Marxists and shares it with others from the region. Read all about his and other lawmakers association here:

http://newzeal.blogspot.com/2008/01/barack-obama-marxist-mole.html

[red states rule]

A politician.

He's a Marxist politician that used Rev. Wright's church as a tool to gain political power in the South-side... he used the poor black population to vote him into office... he is an elite left wing Marxists and shares it with others from the region. Read all about his and other lawmakers association here:

http://newzeal.blogspot.com/2008/01/barack-obama-marxist-mole.html

Barry will find out next Tues, we gun grasping, Bible thumping folks vote

And it will not be for Barry

(Operation Chaos is working out great!)

[diuretic]

Look, this Marxist bullshit has to stop. One bloke does not a revolution make.

I'll hear submissions now thanks.

[red states rule]

Look, this Marxist bullshit has to stop. One bloke does not a revolution make.

I'll hear submissions now thanks.

Barry and Hillary are both classic tax and spend liberals. With what they want to do to America, Karl Marx would be proud of them

[diuretic]

Barry and Hillary are both classic tax and spend liberals. With what they want to do to America, Karl Marx would be proud of them

No he wouldn't, he'd be disgusted with the pair of them. And rightly so :laugh2:

[red states rule]

No he wouldn't, he'd be disgusted with the pair of them. And rightly so :laugh2:

Why?

Both want to redistribute wealth to heights never seen before

[diuretic]

Even if I thought they were going to do so and not for one minute do I think they're inclined that way, that has not a lot to do with Marxism. The pair of them are extreme capitalists. To tell you the truth I wouldn't vote for either of them, they're both sustainers of capitalism. If either of them got into office they'd start the protection of US domestic markets thing and they'd screw us harder than the Bush Administration has screwed us and those bastards didn't even bother to whisper in our ear while they did us over.

[red states rule]

Even if I thought they were going to do so and not for one minute do I think they're inclined that way, that has not a lot to do with Marxism. The pair of them are extreme capitalists. To tell you the truth I wouldn't vote for either of them, they're both sustainers of capitalism. If either of them got into office they'd start the protection of US domestic markets thing and they'd screw us harder than the Bush Administration has screwed us and those bastards didn't even bother to whisper in our ear while they did us over.

Capitalism is the best economic system in the world.

Barry and Hillary are socialists who want the govenment to expand and take care of as many people as possible

They want to take money form the producers and give it to the nonproducers. Thus starting a never ending cycle of dependency

[theHawk]

Look, this Marxist bullshit has to stop. One bloke does not a revolution make.

I'll hear submissions now thanks.

Just because they aren't pushing for a revolution, doesn't mean they don't share the same beliefs and goals as Marxists.
The 10 Planks of the Communist Manifesto:
1. Abolition of private property and the application of all rents of land to public purposes.
Already accomplished through property tax.


2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
The number one goal of Democrats. Tax the shit out of middle and upper class. All with the end goal of "closing the gap between the rich and the poor".


3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
Dems are pushing hard for this. We call it the "Death Tax".

4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
Already accomplished through the IRS.

5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
Already accomplished through the FDIC.


6. Centralization of the means of communications and transportation in the hands of the State. This has already been achieved - FCC, FAA, DOT.

7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state, the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

8. Equal liability of all to labor.
Dems also champion this cause. With their minimum wage hikes, and now Obama has come forward with the idea of maximum wage. All to "close the gap" between the "rich" and the poor working class.

9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries, gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equitable distribution of population over the country.

10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production.
This is one of the core beliefs of Democrats. A state run, taxpayer paid education system. This is where they can indoctrinate all children.

[diuretic]

Capitalism is the best economic system in the world.

Barry and Hillary are socialists who want the govenment to expand and take care of as many people as possible

They want to take money form the producers and give it to the nonproducers. Thus starting a never ending cycle of dependency

Capitalism worked for a long time. It's now failing us. It has to be replaced.

Clinton and Obama are not socialists. They are both capitalists. They would defend capitalism with their lives, I know it.

And socialism isn't about taking money from anyone. It's about re-thinking the means or production and neither Clinton nor Obama have the wit or the courage to do that. Neither are socialists, in no way whatsoever.

[No_Socialism]

I agree. I would say that Obama is a "Democratic Socialist".


If so then by definition he isn't a Marxist.

As I posted before:

Obama's platform is more in line with Democratic Socialists than modern liberals!

Issue: Progressive Taxation
Obama's Platform: Yes
Democratic Socialists & Social Democracy: Yes
Modern Liberals: Yes

Issue: Strong skepticism for capitalism
Obama's Platform: Yes
Democratic Socialists & Social Democracy: Yes
Modern Liberals: Somewhat

Issue: Immigration
Obama's Platform: Less Restrictive
Democratic Socialists & Social Democracy: Less Restrictive
Modern Liberals: Mostly Less Restrictive

Issue: Abortion
Obama's Platform: Pro Choice
Democratic Socialists & Social Democracy: Pro Choice
Modern Liberals: Pro Choice

Issue: More Public Education / Less Private
Obama's Platform: Yes
Democratic Socialists & Social Democracy: Yes
Modern Liberals: Yes

Issue: Same Sex Marriage
Obama's Platform: Yes
Democratic Socialists & Social Democracy: Yes
Modern Liberals: Yes

Issue: Universal Healthcare
Obama's Platform: Yes
Democratic Socialists & Social Democracy: Yes
Modern Liberals: Yes

Issue: More Regulation
Obama's Platform: Yes
Democratic Socialists & Social Democracy: Yes
Modern Liberals: Mostly Yes

Issue: Free Trade
Obama's Platform: Mostly No
Democratic Socialists & Social Democracy: Mostly No
Modern Liberals: Mostly Yes

Issue: Lower Defense Spending
Obama's Platform: Yes
Democratic Socialists & Social Democracy: Yes
Modern Liberals: Mostly Yes

Issue: Gun Control
Obama's Platform: Strict
Democratic Socialists & Social Democracy: Strict
Modern Liberals: Strict

Issue: More Environmental Protection Laws
Obama's Platform: Yes
Democratic Socialists & Social Democracy: Yes
Modern Liberals: Mostly Yes

Obama is more in line with Democratic Socialists than Modern Liberals... Then add in what the article says:


OBAMA’S SECRET SOCIALIST CONNECTIONS

Obama’s socialist backing goes back at least to 1996, when he received the endorsement of the Chicago branch of the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) for an Illinois state senate seat. Later, the Chicago DSA newsletter reported that Obama, as a state senator, showed up to eulogize Saul Mendelson, one of the “champions” of “Chicago’s democratic left” and a long-time socialist activist. Obama’s stint as a “community organizer” in Chicago has gotten some attention, but his relationship with the DSA socialists, who groomed and backed him, has been generally ignored.

Blogger Steve Bartin, who has been following Obama’s career and involvement with the Chicago socialists, uncovered a fascinating video showing Obama campaigning for openly socialist Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont. Interestingly, Sanders, who won his seat in 2006, called Obama “one of the great leaders of the United States Senate,” even though Obama had only been in the body for about two years. In 2007, the National Journal said that Obama had established himself as “the most liberal Senator.” More liberal than Sanders? That is quite a feat. Does this make Obama a socialist, too?

http://www.aim.org/aim-report/is-barack-obama-a-marxist-mole/

Then add this in:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In its broadest sense, democratic socialism could refer to any attempts to bring about socialism through peaceful democratic means as opposed to violent insurrection. This can sometimes include social democracy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_socialism
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So instead of bringing in socialism via a revolution, democratic socialists attempt to do it gradually via the democratic process.

Read the DSA's FAQ at: http://www.dsausa.org/pdf/widemsoc.pdf

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If I am going to devote time to politics, why shouldn’t I focus on something more immediate?

Although capitalism will be with us for a long time, reforms we win now—raising the minimum wage, securing a national health plan, and demanding passage of right-to-strike legislation—can bring us closer to socialism.

What can young people do to move the US towards socialism?

Schools, Colleges and Universities are important to American political culture. They are the places where ideas are formulated and policy discussed and developed. Being an active part of that discussion is a critical job for young socialists.

http://www.dsausa.org/pdf/widemsoc.pdf
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And this one is very disturbing:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Private corporations seem to be a permanent fixture in the US, so why work towards socialism?

In the short term we can’t eliminate private corporations, but we can bring them under greater democratic control.

http://www.dsausa.org/pdf/widemsoc.pdf
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So if they say that in the short term they cannot eliminate private corporations, what does that say about the long term? Also, "greater democratic control" means more state control of corporations via regulations and taxation. That is their plan for the short term... Which also happens to be Obama's plan! Hmm....

If the goal of the Democratic Socialists is to bring about Socialism via democratic means, that certainly DOES make Obama a Marxist.

[red states rule]

Capitalism worked for a long time. It's now failing us. It has to be replaced.

Clinton and Obama are not socialists. They are both capitalists. They would defend capitalism with their lives, I know it.

And socialism isn't about taking money from anyone. It's about re-thinking the means or production and neither Clinton nor Obama have the wit or the courage to do that. Neither are socialists, in no way whatsoever.

How is capitalism failing us? Capitalism allows anyone to earn and build wealth. It provides the freedom to grow and expand your business.

Hillary and Obama are scoialists. Taking wealth from others and giving it others will destroy incentive for investment and risk taking

Both want government run healthcare, and Hillary has openly talked about "taking the profits form oil companies"

[mundame]

He's not a mole..

He's spewing his Marxism right in our face..



Yes, I agree. And I thought I was the only person beginning to suspect this, but the Fox Panel with Brit Hume had two people actually USING the "M" word! I was amazed; that's a pretty taboo thing to call anyone, especially a political candidate, in this country. So I think they mean it.

And I do too ------ this guy is waaaaaaaay too far left and I hate to think of all the income transfer coming our way from people who make money to people who don't make money but want to spend ours.

[mundame]

We are learning more and more about Barry Obama with each passing day

Seems Barry's chickens are coming home to roost



Nope, he's ahead in all the polls that came out today, more ahead than ever, against both Hillary and McCain. http://www.steroidology.com/forum/images/smilies/worried.gif

[red states rule]

Nope, he's ahead in all the polls that came out today, more ahead than ever, against both Hillary and McCain. http://www.steroidology.com/forum/images/smilies/worried.gif

McCain has caught up to Barry

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/national.html

Hillary is up by 20 points in Pa in a recent poll

The new poll by American Research Group -- conducted Friday, Saturday and Sunday -- gave Clinton 57% and Obama 37% (based on interviews with 600 Democrats, the survey has an error margin of plus-or-minus 4 percentage points). The 20-point margin is all the more dramatic because, just the week before, an ARG poll found the pair in a flat-out tie in Pennsylvania, each with 45%.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/wash...oll-shows.html

Here is the poll itself

http://americanresearchgroup.com/

[mundame]

Hillary is up by 20 points in Pa in a recent poll




I found that poll heartening, but the polls today, Reuters and ABC, are not favorable for Hillary or McCain. They are showing Obama ahead, and they are both close to each other.

I am not sure that these polls incorporated the latest scandal, Obama's elitist remarks in San Francisco, however.

[Abbey Marie]

I don't see Obama as a Christian fundamentalist. He seems more like a member of the Church of Opportunism, where the altar features a picture of... Obama. And maybe Michelle, too. :laugh2:

[red states rule]

I found that poll heartening, but the polls today, Reuters and ABC, are not favorable for Hillary or McCain. They are showing Obama ahead, and they are both close to each other.

I am not sure that these polls incorporated the latest scandal, Obama's elitist remarks in San Francisco, however.

The 20 point lead for Hilary was taken over the weekend

Does not matter, this is going all the way to Denver

I do hope the Clintons pull every dirty trick, low blow, rabbit punch, and cheap shot they can think of

I want to convention to look like a bar room brawl, and increase the split in the Dem party

The Clintons do not give a damn about the party or the voters - only what is best for the Clinton's

[mundame]

The Clintons do not give a damn about the party or the voters - only what is best for the Clinton's


Ummmmmmmmm, RSR......another way to say that is that she's running for election. I fail to see why she should be nice and sweet so her opponent can win.

[red states rule]

Ummmmmmmmm, RSR......another way to say that is that she's running for election. I fail to see why she should be nice and sweet so her opponent can win.

Look how her people are turing on other Dems. Even Dems that worked for Bill in his administration

Hillary has lied through her teeth, and is upset when people call her on her lies. She thought she would walk to the nomination, sicne she belives she is entitled to it

The Clintons will destroy anyone who gets in their way of them securing more political power

[mundame]

Look how her people are turing on other Dems. Even Dems that worked for Bill in his administration

That's called "running for president," RSR.


Hillary has lied through her teeth, and is upset when people call her on her lies.

I'm unimpressed by that Bosnia thing. I'm sure it was very scary, and people remember stuff that doesn't exactly happen sometimes. Unimportant.



She thought she would walk to the nomination, sicne she belives she is entitled to it

When she was way ahead, I'm sure she DID hope that!! But now that she can't "walk to the nomination," she's fighting hard for it. And more power to her, I say, good for her.


The Clintons will destroy anyone who gets in their way of them securing more political power

Well, they better hurry up and get on with it, then; they are so close to losing I wonder when they'll start all this "destroying everyone" stuff.

[Classact]

Look how her people are turing on other Dems. Even Dems that worked for Bill in his administration

Hillary has lied through her teeth, and is upset when people call her on her lies. She thought she would walk to the nomination, sicne she belives she is entitled to it

The Clintons will destroy anyone who gets in their way of them securing more political powerCheck out this link on polls yesterday http://blogs.usatoday.com/onpolitics/2008/04/whats-new-new-p.html

But check out the links of articles below the polls for more fun.

• Chicago Sun-Times -- Obama's name comes up at Rezko trial: "Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama was again drawn into Tony Rezko's corruption trial on Monday, when the prosecution's star witness placed Obama at a party for an Iraqi-born billionaire who was later barred entry to the United States. Stuart Levine testified under cross-examination that Obama and his wife, Michelle, attended the April 3, 2004, reception for Nadhmi Auchi. ... Later Monday, Obama campaign spokesman Ben LaBolt said: 'As he has said previously, Senator Obama does not recall meeting Nadhmi Auchi at any time or on any occasion, and this includes any event that may have been held for Mr. Auchi. Senator and Mrs. Obama have no recollection of attending any such event.' "

[Abbey Marie]

Mundame, who do you support for President?

[red states rule]

[QUOTE=mundame;232052]


I'm unimpressed by that Bosnia thing. I'm sure it was very scary, and people remember stuff that doesn't exactly happen sometimes. Unimportant

QUOTE]

You are unimpressed with her outright lie? Yea, the 10 year old kid giving her a flower must of scared the shit out of Hillary. The only thing she had to duck was the bumble bee that buzzed by her head

It is not the first lie she has told. How about the poor pregnant women who was turned away from a hospital because she did not have a $100? She said the baby and her died

It never happened

Hilary is a serial liar. If you do not want to admit it, that is your choice

I love how the Clintons are tearing the party apart, and turning one Dem aganist another

[mundame]

Mundame, who do you support for President?

I guess I'll vote for Hillary if she gets so far, Abbey. First woman, all that. I usually vote Republican, but am pretty discouraged generally at the candidate crop this year. I never voted for Bill Clinton (as soon as Gennifer Flowers showed up, I KNEW what he was, and was I right, or what??), but his presidency was pretty successful, if you don't think about the dirty stuff [sigh], and he was willing to war but didn't get us into a whole lot of war trouble, and he wasn't as far left as people worried.

On the other hand, I don't care much for the Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton business.

I won't vote for Obama, the inexperienced anti-white leftist, or for warmonger McCain. I voted for McCain in the primary in 2000, and was a big supporter of his till the fool announced his support for this useless Surge, and that was the end of McCain for me, that day. And he's only made it worse and worse ------ now he wants to keep on warring over there indefinitely!

So I'm in a pickle this year. Normally I feel I have someone I can support --- but not this election. Well, Hillary will get my vote if she gets so far, but it's not looking good and I'm not enthusiastic about voting for a Dem.

If not her, I may well be out of the game for the first time in my life!

In which case, maybe Bob Barr, just to be voting.

[mundame]

I love how the Clintons are tearing the party apart, and turning one Dem aganist another


Well, at least you're happy about SOMEthing this election. I'm not sure I'm happy about anything. http://forums.offtopic.com/images/smilies/happysad.gif

[red states rule]

Well, at least you're happy about SOMEthing this election. I'm not sure I'm happy about anything. http://forums.offtopic.com/images/smilies/happysad.gif

I find it so funny liberals who loved and adored the Clintons when they were using the same tactics against Republicans, are in a tizzy over them using them against a black liberal

The liberal media actually talks about Hilarys lies, and Bill being an asshole on the cappaign trail

It is fun to watch

[Abbey Marie]

I guess I'll vote for Hillary if she gets so far, Abbey. First woman, all that. I usually vote Republican, but am pretty discouraged generally at the candidate crop this year. I never voted for Bill Clinton (as soon as Gennifer Flowers showed up, I KNEW what he was, and was I right, or what??), but his presidency was pretty successful, if you don't think about the dirty stuff [sigh], and he was willing to war but didn't get us into a whole lot of war trouble, and he wasn't as far left as people worried.

On the other hand, I don't care much for the Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton business.

I won't vote for Obama, the inexperienced anti-white leftist, or for warmonger McCain. I voted for McCain in the primary in 2000, and was a big supporter of his till the fool announced his support for this useless Surge, and that was the end of McCain for me, that day. And he's only made it worse and worse ------ now he wants to keep on warring over there indefinitely!

So I'm in a pickle this year. Normally I feel I have someone I can support --- but not this election. Well, Hillary will get my vote if she gets so far, but it's not looking good and I'm not enthusiastic about voting for a Dem.

If not her, I may well be out of the game for the first time in my life!

In which case, maybe Bob Barr, just to be voting.

I agree with some of your points. There is no good candidate for me, either.

But probably the biggest reason I could never vote for Hillary is the type of judges she would nominate. Long after she and her scary policies are gone, we will be saddled with her ultra-liberal judges and justices, who can and will overrule any legislation they don't like. They will be activist judges who make law, and bad law at that, from the bench. These far-reaching effects can last decades, and are simply not tolerable to me.

Obama and his racist, Socialist, anti-American and Muslim connections, descibed in many threads on the board, is just too scary for words.

[red states rule]

I agree with some of your points. There is no good candidate for me, either.

But probably the biggest reason I could never vote for Hillary is the type of judges she would nominate. Long after she and her scary policies are gone, we will be saddled with her ultra-liberal judges and justices, who can and will overrule any legislation they don't like. They will be activist judges who make law, and bad law at that, from the bench. These far-reaching effects can last decades, and are simply not tolerable to me.

Obama and his racist, Socialist, anti-American and Muslim connections, descibed in many threads on the board, is just too scary for words.

Can I join the club?

Just when McCain is on a small roll, he screws it up by turning back into a liberal

The most important issues for me is more tax cuts, Judges, keep killing and tracking the terrorists, securing our borders, and getting the illegals out of the US

Hillary and Obama fail on all those

McCain I can't be sure how he would be

[Little-Acorn]

There is no Marxism in the Democratic Party.

Right. They don't support Marx by name. They just happen to agree with what he believed, and keep trying to make policy accordingly.

[Abbey Marie]

Can I join the club?

Just when McCain is on a small roll, he screws it up by turning back into a liberal

The most important issues for me is more tax cuts, Judges, keep killing and tracking the terrorists, securing our borders, and getting the illegals out of the US

Hillary and Obama fail on all those

McCain I can't be sure how he would be

I think McCain is at an age where he may not run for re-election, and will feel free to do whatever he thinks will help his legacy. That, and his history of going his own way, makes him a big unknown factor.

[red states rule]

I think McCain is at an age where he may not run for re-election, and will feel free to do whatever he thinks will help his legacy. That, and his history of going his own way, makes him a big unknown factor.

Which means Taco Bell may be our phone company at the end of his four years

[mundame]

Can I join the club?

Just when McCain is on a small roll, he screws it up by turning back into a liberal

The most important issues for me is more tax cuts, Judges, keep killing and tracking the terrorists, securing our borders, and getting the illegals out of the US

Hillary and Obama fail on all those

McCain I can't be sure how he would be


Yeah, I agree generally. That McCain, there was a list of his positions and I only agreed with ONE! (We don't like torture.) Otherwise, he was left when I was right, and he was right when I was left. Darn, the man makes me crazy. Goodness only knows what he'd get up to as president. I have no confidence in him anymore.

[red states rule]

Yeah, I agree generally. That McCain, there was a list of his positions and I only agreed with ONE! (We don't like torture.) Otherwise, he was left when I was right, and he was right when I was left. Darn, the man makes me crazy. Goodness only knows what he'd get up to as president. I have no confidence in him anymore.

The US does NOT torture. If you are tlaking about watrerboarding it has been used only 3 times. Each time the terrroist cracked in less then one minute, and gave up information that stopped terrorist attacks

McCain is a RINO at best

[mundame]

But probably the biggest reason I could never vote for Hillary is the type of judges she would nominate. Long after she and her scary policies are gone, we will be saddled with her ultra-liberal judges and justices, who can and will overrule any legislation they don't like. They will be activist judges who make law, and bad law at that, from the bench. These far-reaching effects can last decades, and are simply not tolerable to me.


I am amazed at how long some of these justices have been hanging on like Grim Death! Stevens is 87, IIRC. They are determined not to go until a Dem gets in that White House, and I do suspect a whole passel of them will fall over like dominoes shortly after noon on January 20, 2009.

Still, Roberts as Chief Justice was one of Bush's few good moves. Roberts has been quite all right, and he may have a long tenure.

[Abbey Marie]

I am amazed at how long some of these justices have been hanging on like Grim Death! Stevens is 87, IIRC. They are determined not to go until a Dem gets in that White House, and I do suspect a whole passel of them will fall over like dominoes shortly after noon on January 20, 2009.

Still, Roberts as Chief Justice was one of Bush's few good moves. Roberts has been quite all right, and he may have a long tenure.

I have the utmost respect for Roberts. You can see the man's goodness in his eyes, even. Friends of ours met and spoke with him in Maine two summers ago. They are Dems and they were very impressed by him.

[red states rule]

I am amazed at how long some of these justices have been hanging on like Grim Death! Stevens is 87, IIRC. They are determined not to go until a Dem gets in that White House, and I do suspect a whole passel of them will fall over like dominoes shortly after noon on January 20, 2009.

Still, Roberts as Chief Justice was one of Bush's few good moves. Roberts has been quite all right, and he may have a long tenure.

Which is why I hope Obama and Hillary do not get in. Then we will get more idiots like Stevens and Ginsburg

[mundame]

I have the utmost respect for Roberts. You can see the man's goodness in his eyes, even.


Yes, I know what you mean. Now, that's a man I have confidence in. Would that we had people like that running for election.