2008....most important election in history?

[manu1959]

will it be or will it not be the most important ever....

electing a repub like romney will send a message that the US is on the right course domestically and intenationally....

electing a dem like hillary will send the opposite message....

personally, i think a moderate such as rudy will send the best message

[Gaffer]

What message would electing Micheal Savage send?

[avatar4321]

What message would electing Micheal Savage send?

Armageddon?

[manu1959]

What message would electing Micheal Savage send?

run for cover?:laugh2:

[Insein]

Most important since when? 2004? I thought 04 was the do or die election. This hype is the problem. Every presidential election is the end of the world scenario now. We're still nearly 2 years from the actually casting of ballots and im already disgusted with it.

[glockmail]

What message would electing Micheal Savage send? As much as I'd like to see it, it will never happen.

No, odds are that Hillary will be the next Prez.

Adive to all:
1. Move out of urban areas, especially those located near large ports.
2. Buy lots of freeze-dried food, guns and ammo.
3. Buy a wood stove and learn how to cut and split wood by hand.

[Hobbit]

As much as I'd like to see it, it will never happen.

No, odds are that Hillary will be the next Prez.

Adive to all:
1. Move out of urban areas, especially those located near large ports.
2. Buy lots of freeze-dried food, guns and ammo.
3. Buy a wood stove and learn how to cut and split wood by hand.

So...do nothing different than what I always do? Well, except for the freeze-dried food. I can live off the land.

[Insein]

As much as I'd like to see it, it will never happen.

No, odds are that Hillary will be the next Prez.

Adive to all:
1. Move out of urban areas, especially those located near large ports.
2. Buy lots of freeze-dried food, guns and ammo.
3. Buy a wood stove and learn how to cut and split wood by hand.

Thats what i mean. Even if Hillary was elected president. We wouldnt end as a country. We'd endure for 4 years and then we'd elect someone new.

[Abbey Marie]

As much as I'd like to see it, it will never happen.

No, odds are that Hillary will be the next Prez.

Adive to all:
1. Move out of urban areas, especially those located near large ports.
2. Buy lots of freeze-dried food, guns and ammo.
3. Buy a wood stove and learn how to cut and split wood by hand.

4. Use guns and ammo to shoot self in head.

[Bonnie]

As much as I'd like to see it, it will never happen.

No, odds are that Hillary will be the next Prez.

Adive to all:
1. Move out of urban areas, especially those located near large ports.
2. Buy lots of freeze-dried food, guns and ammo.
3. Buy a wood stove and learn how to cut and split wood by hand.

Don't be too sure, it's early I know but right now Guiliani has double digit lead on her, and Obama may keep her from getting the nomination. Sorros, Clooney and now Geffen are just a few lining up for the annointed one.

I think we may see a Guiliani win if he picks someone like Romney as his running mate.

[avatar4321]

Don't be too sure, it's early I know but right now Guiliani has double digit lead on her, and Obama may keep her from getting the nomination. Sorros, Clooney and now Geffen are just a few lining up for the annointed one.

I think we may see a Guiliani win if he picks someone like Romney as his running mate.

I think Romney can give Guiliani a run for his money for the nomination.

Besides, I dont think Hillary or Obama will get the nomination for the Democrats. I think there may be someone else we will see arise.

Never underestimate the negative turn out factor with Hillary. There will be alot of people who will show up just to vote against her in both parties.

[Bonnie]

I think Romney can give Guiliani a run for his money for the nomination.

Besides, I dont think Hillary or Obama will get the nomination for the Democrats. I think there may be someone else we will see arise.

Never underestimate the negative turn out factor with Hillary. There will be alot of people who will show up just to vote against her in both parties.

I hope so.

[5stringJeff]

Newt!!!

[Bonnie]

Newt!!!

Oh if only..do I dare dream that???:laugh2:

Can you imagine him in a debate with any Dem he'd wipe the floor with them...

[avatar4321]

Newt!!!

Newt and Romney are the only two im seriously considering right now. Of course, that may change depending on how the dynamics of the race change and who comes forth and who withdrawals, etc.

[Abbey Marie]

Oh if only..do I dare dream that???:laugh2:

Can you imagine him in a debate with any Dem he'd wipe the floor with them...

He truly would! :clap:

[5stringJeff]

Oh if only..do I dare dream that???:laugh2:

Can you imagine him in a debate with any Dem he'd wipe the floor with them...

Newt would wipe the floor with anyone of any party.

[Bonnie]

He truly would! :clap:

He is brilliant and smooth..

When I was a kid my mother loved Ronald Reagan when he was governor of California. She used to hope and pray he would some day run for president, but thought that would never happen, he was too conservative.
Little did she know at that time her daughter's first foray into politics would be volunteering for his second campaign for president.

Miracles do happen:salute:

[Pale Rider]

No, odds are that Hillary will be the next Prez.


I don't know what odds you're looking at, but being a betting man, I'll give you those odds, that hitlery WON'T be the next president. Hell, I'll even bet you she doesn't get the dem nomination!

[Pale Rider]

Newt would wipe the floor with anyone of any party.

He most surely WOULDN'T wipe the floor with TOM TANCREDO.

[5stringJeff]

He most surely WOULDN'T wipe the floor with TOM TANCREDO.

On illegal immigration, you are probably right. On everything else, Tom would be sorely outmatched.

[glockmail]

Thats what i mean. Even if Hillary was elected president. We wouldnt end as a country. We'd endure for 4 years and then we'd elect someone new. You misunderstood me, maybe. After four years of her rule we may not have a country left. I would thus prepare myself for the worst.

[glockmail]

Don't be too sure, it's early I know but right now Guiliani has double digit lead on her, and Obama may keep her from getting the nomination. Sorros, Clooney and now Geffen are just a few lining up for the annointed one.

I think we may see a Guiliani win if he picks someone like Romney as his running mate.

G man may be the only one that can beat her. He'd be better off with Condi as his veep though.

[glockmail]

....

Never underestimate the negative turn out factor with Hillary. There will be alot of people who will show up just to vote against her in both parties.

I predicted that 8 years ago when I lived in NY and she ran for Senator. It didn't happen. :cool:

[Abbey Marie]

You misunderstood me, maybe. After four years of her rule we may not have a country left. I would thus prepare myself for the worst.

Not to mention the decades of devastation any Hillary court appointees will wreak on the country long after she's gone.

[avatar4321]

You misunderstood me, maybe. After four years of her rule we may not have a country left. I would thus prepare myself for the worst.

we may not have a country left by the 2008 election. civilization is more fragile then most people want to admit.

[Insein]

You misunderstood me, maybe. After four years of her rule we may not have a country left. I would thus prepare myself for the worst.

No i understood you. Believe me, if this country can survive 4 years of Jimmy Carter, we'll be ok for 4 years of anyone. The point is, this country will not end with Hillary.

[glockmail]

No i understood you. Believe me, if this country can survive 4 years of Jimmy Carter, we'll be ok for 4 years of anyone. The point is, this country will not end with Hillary. I remember those awful days. But Jiminy is dumb and hillary is smart. She'll be much worse.

[avatar4321]

No i understood you. Believe me, if this country can survive 4 years of Jimmy Carter, we'll be ok for 4 years of anyone. The point is, this country will not end with Hillary.

Are you sure we have survived it yet? We are still dealing with some of the problems from his administration that can still end pretty badly for this nation. Last thing we need is another incompetant leader that will cause us to fix problems for the next 30 years.

[GW in Ohio]

Damn, If we can survive 8 years with an idiot like George Bush running things, we should be able to survive anything.

The next president will spend a lot of time repairing our image in the world and cleaning up the foreign policy messes left by the boy king.

[5stringJeff]

Damn, If we can survive 8 years with an idiot like George Bush running things, we should be able to survive anything.

The next president will spend a lot of time repairing our image in the world and cleaning up the foreign policy messes left by the boy king.

Repairing our image in the world how? By making us look less tough and more submissive to the UN?

(BTW, is that you playing an upright bass in your avatar?)

[avatar4321]

Damn, If we can survive 8 years with an idiot like George Bush running things, we should be able to survive anything.

The next president will spend a lot of time repairing our image in the world and cleaning up the foreign policy messes left by the boy king.

You know, you guys keep calling President Bush an idiot. I don't think idiot means what you guys seem to think it means.

We've liberated 2 nations in the past 6 years. In doing so we also convinced Libya to stop their nuclear program. I'd say thats a positive in the world.

The economy is pretty strong, even despite yesterdays fluxuation.

We've done more to combat poverty and diseases such as AIDS then any other nation in the world these past 6 years.

We are finally awake to the threat of terrorism in the world and doing what we can to stop them.

Education is being funded now more than ever in the history of the world.

People have more of their own money in their pockets (which is still not enough in my opinion).

What exactly do you think we have done that is so bad in the world? Ever consider we might not want a good image with people who oppress freedom and want to commit genocide?

We are a leader in the world, not because of our "image" but because we make the tough decisions to do what is right even when others aren't willing to. Id rather do what is right than be liked any day. Because if you are too busy worried about doing things so people like you, you are being really superficial and missing the big point.

[GW in Ohio]

Jeff: That's not me in the pic; I just liked the picture. I do play upright bass, though.

I also play electric bass, clawhammer banjo, and enough guitar to keep myself amused.

Does your name mean that you're conversant with that wondrous instrument known as the 5-string banjo?

[GW in Ohio]

"You know, you guys keep calling President Bush an idiot. I don't think idiot means what you guys seem to think it means.

We've liberated 2 nations in the past 6 years. In doing so we also convinced Libya to stop their nuclear program. I'd say thats a positive in the world.

The economy is pretty strong, even despite yesterdays fluxuation.

We've done more to combat poverty and diseases such as AIDS then any other nation in the world these past 6 years.

We are finally awake to the threat of terrorism in the world and doing what we can to stop them." --avatar

avatar: Mr. Bush has done more to encourage Islamofascism than any 100 bin Ladens could have done. For years, they have been telling people in the Middle East that America plans to take over the region and make them all convert to Christianity. And now, after the boy king's ham-handed blundering into Iraq, they're able to say, "See? It's just like we told you."

I've said elsewhere that the war against terrorism is a battle for the hearts and minds of the world's 1.3 billion Muslims. If we get into a shooting war in any of these Muslim nations, we've lost the war on terror, because the propaganda windfall for radical groups like al Qaeda is incalculable.

Mr. Bush is the best thing that ever happened to al Qaeda.

And by the way, we haven't liberated jack shit. We've precipitated a civil war in Iraq, and because we diverted troops and atention away from Afghanistan to Iraq, the gains we've made in Afghanistan are in jeopardy.

[glockmail]

... Mr. Bush has done more to encourage Islamofascism than any 100 bin Ladens could have done. ....
I hope you play fiddle better than you think. :laugh2:

[avatar4321]

avatar: Mr. Bush has done more to encourage Islamofascism than any 100 bin Ladens could have done. For years, they have been telling people in the Middle East that America plans to take over the region and make them all convert to Christianity. And now, after the boy king's ham-handed blundering into Iraq, they're able to say, "See? It's just like we told you."

I've said elsewhere that the war against terrorism is a battle for the hearts and minds of the world's 1.3 billion Muslims. If we get into a shooting war in any of these Muslim nations, we've lost the war on terror, because the propaganda windfall for radical groups like al Qaeda is incalculable.

Mr. Bush is the best thing that ever happened to al Qaeda.

And by the way, we haven't liberated jack shit. We've precipitated a civil war in Iraq, and because we diverted troops and atention away from Afghanistan to Iraq, the gains we've made in Afghanistan are in jeopardy.

How exactly does freeing people from oppression and nations that support terror, letting the people govern themselves, help Al Qaeda show that we want to conquor and convert them. It shows the exactly opposite, because if we wanted to we could conquor and convert them. We aren't blundering in Iraq. How on earth can removing a dictator who oppresses his people and helping them become free be a blunder? What does Al Qaeda gain by losing one of the major sources of funding?

You are right about one thing. We have to win the propaganda war. That's impossible so long as the left keeps playing into the hands to terrorists in this propaganda war. We need to have a united front. We can't do that when there are people in this nation trying to undermine the war on terror.

We also can't win a propaganda war if there are ruthless dictators in the Islamic nations promoting the opposing propaganda. We can't rely on them to get our communications out. The only way to win a propaganda war is to first remove the oppressive element from these nations so there can be a free and open media to educate the people. How exactly do you think we can win a propaganda war if we have to plead for the guys who want to kill us to place our propaganda?

We've been in many wars, and we've never lost one of them because we were too strong.

[GW in Ohio]

We've been in many wars, and we've never lost one of them because we were too strong.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......

I seem to remember a little unpleasantness in Southeast Asia back in the '60s & '70s, where we were far stronger militarily than the Viet Cong, but we still wound up running for our lives.

Remember that last helicopter pulling out of Saigon?

[5stringJeff]

Jeff: That's not me in the pic; I just liked the picture. I do play upright bass, though.

I also play electric bass, clawhammer banjo, and enough guitar to keep myself amused.

Does your name mean that you're conversant with that wondrous instrument known as the 5-string banjo?

Five-string bass, actually. I've played guitar for 11 years, and bass for about 5.

So, from one bassist to another: :2up:

[GW in Ohio]

Jeff: Regardless of what political considerations divide us, we have a common bond that is indivisible.

The bass is a wonderful instrument. I'm currently playing upright acoustic bass in a bluegrass band and it's very satisfying.

I've been branching out into jazz recently. I have a Barker upright electric bass that's pretty cool, but I think I like my son's Ibanez bass a little better.

Anyway, I consider you a friend already, despite any silly political differences we may have.

[Gaffer]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......

I seem to remember a little unpleasantness in Southeast Asia back in the '60s & '70s, where we were far stronger militarily than the Viet Cong, but we still wound up running for our lives.

Remember that last helicopter pulling out of Saigon?

We didn't lose in southeast asia. The democratic congress surrendered the south Vietnamese to the north by not funding support. The US military NEVER lost a battle with the VC or the NVA. You need to get your history right if your going to use that as a comparison. And the dems are trying to do the same thing in iraq now. Selling us out again, just for their stupid power trip.

[Abbey Marie]

Jeff: Regardless of what political considerations divide us, we have a common bond that is indivisible.

The bass is a wonderful instrument. I'm currently playing upright acoustic bass in a bluegrass band and it's very satisfying.

I've been branching out into jazz recently. I have a Barker upright electric bass that's pretty cool, but I think I like my son's Ibanez bass a little better.

Anyway, I consider you a friend already, despite any silly political differences we may have.

My huband plays bass, too, and we have pretty close bond. :D

[glockmail]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......

I seem to remember a little unpleasantness in Southeast Asia back in the '60s & '70s, where we were far stronger militarily than the Viet Cong, but we still wound up running for our lives.

Remember that last helicopter pulling out of Saigon?

I certaintly do.

1. Do you remember why we lost? (Because we didn't go after the supply line, like we are trying to do in the middle east by going after Iraq and Iran.)
2. Do you remember what happened to our allies after we caved in to liberal thinking. (3 million people were slaughtered, exactly what would happen in Iraq if we caved into liberal thinking again.)

[avatar4321]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......

I seem to remember a little unpleasantness in Southeast Asia back in the '60s & '70s, where we were far stronger militarily than the Viet Cong, but we still wound up running for our lives.

Remember that last helicopter pulling out of Saigon?

Excuse my language, but strength is useless if you have pussies in Congress.

[avatar4321]

I certaintly do.

1. Do you remember why we lost? (Because we didn't go after the supply line, like we are trying to do in the middle east by going after Iraq and Iran.)
2. Do you remember what happened to our allies after we caved in to liberal thinking. (3 million people were slaughtered, exactly what would happen in Iraq if we caved into liberal thinking again.)

Everytime socialists get theri way millions die... scary isnt it?

[5stringJeff]

Jeff: Regardless of what political considerations divide us, we have a common bond that is indivisible.

The bass is a wonderful instrument. I'm currently playing upright acoustic bass in a bluegrass band and it's very satisfying.

I've been branching out into jazz recently. I have a Barker upright electric bass that's pretty cool, but I think I like my son's Ibanez bass a little better.

Anyway, I consider you a friend already, despite any silly political differences we may have.

Indeed! Musicman, another poster around here, has been playing drums for years (decades?). Nuc, who's here sporadically, is another bassist.

I played in a big band for about three years. 5 saxes, 5 bones, 4 trumpets, 6 vocalists, and rhythm (piano/guitar/bass/drums). We played 40's style swing, including Glenn Miller and Duke Ellington, plus lots of gospel tunes/hymns that had been arranged in the style. It was a blast to play, especially after I got the hang of playing/creating walking bass lines.

I've only played Ibanez basses in the store. I've got a Schecter Stiletto Custom 5 with a natural finish. I still haven't decided whether it looks as good as it sounds! I've never played an upright, but I'd enjoy the chance.

[CSM]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......

I seem to remember a little unpleasantness in Southeast Asia back in the '60s & '70s, where we were far stronger militarily than the Viet Cong, but we still wound up running for our lives.

Remember that last helicopter pulling out of Saigon?

That's crap. "We" didn't run anywhere! Guess who pulled us out of VietNam? I suspect you know, but are trying to get a rise out of us that were there...if so ... it worked.

I remember well the last helicopter pulling out of that country...it is one of the most SHAMEFUL moments in the history of the United States of America.

[GW in Ohio]

When you get a good upright bass with an ebony fingerboard, it's a very tactile experience. It's hard to describe, but you develop this tactile love affair with the neck of your instrument.

[musicman]

When you get a good upright bass with an ebony fingerboard, it's a very tactile experience. It's hard to describe, but you develop this tactile love affair with the neck of your instrument.

Don't know what it is about an ebony board, but - WOW! I play a little guitar; it is primarily a music-writing tool for me, but I've kept the wolf back from the door more than once as a solo and duo rhythym guitarist/vocalist. My fiancee's brother has an absolutely astounding custom-made acoustic guitar with - among many other delights - an ebony fretboard on a satin mahogany/walnut neck. I find myself doing things on that guitar that are just not in my usual bag of tricks!

It's wonderful to have yet another musician - and an Ohioan to boot - on the board. Welcome, GW!

Vietnam was a lost battle in a larger war we had to win, and, ultimately, did - no thanks to the American left. They've been on the wrong side of every national security issue since the advent of the Cold War, and their rank political opportunism in the face of the War on Terror makes me want to puke. The idea that finally acknowledging the fact that we're in a war, after being attacked by Islamic extremists for decades, is somehow "creating more terrorists" or "causing the world to hate us", is a vain hope that some other circumstance could exist. It can't. That fantasy is over. It went down with the Twin Towers.

Making nice with these animals is not going to help us. They're still living in the seventh century; the strength or weakness of Western Civilization is all that interests them. Will we defend ourselves, or have we finally become fat, lazy, and PC-addled enough to be taken? George Bush - maggot and traitor to the conservative cause that he is - at least has the right answer to THAT question. That's more than I can say for the rest of what passes for Western Civilization - and whose favor the American left so fervently, feverishly court.

[CSM]

Don't know what it is about an ebony board, but - WOW! I play a little guitar; it is primarily a music-writing tool for me, but I've kept the wolf back from the door more than once as a solo and duo rhythym guitarist/vocalist. My fiancee's brother has an absolutely astounding custom-made acoustic guitar with - among many other delights - an ebony fretboard on a satin mahogany/walnut neck. I find myself doing things on that guitar that are just not in my usual bag of tricks!

It's wonderful to have yet another musician - and an Ohioan to boot - on the board. Welcome, GW!

Vietnam was a lost battle in a larger war we had to win, and, ultimately, did - no thanks to the American left. They've been on the wrong side of every national security issue since the advent of the Cold War, and their rank political opportunism in the face of the War on Terror makes me want to puke. The idea that finally acknowledging the fact that we're in a war, after being attacked by Islamic extremists for decades, is somehow "creating more terrorists" or "causing the world to hate us", is a vain hope that some other circumstance could exist. It can't. That fantasy is over. It went down with the Twin Towers.

Making nice with these animals is not going to help us. They're still living in the seventh century; the strength or weakness of Western Civilization is all that interests them. Will we defend ourselves, or have we finally become fat, lazy, and PC-addled enough to be taken? George Bush - maggot and traitor to the conservative cause that he is - at least has the right answer to THAT question. That's more than I can say for the rest of what passes for Western Civilization - and whose favor the American left so fervently, feverishly court.

Whew...that is an awesome reply! Futile, but awesome nevertheless.

[glockmail]

When you get a good upright bass with an ebony fingerboard, it's a very tactile experience. It's hard to describe, but you develop this tactile love affair with the neck of your instrument. You sick bastard. :laugh2:

[GW in Ohio]

I'm open to discussions on Vietnam, guys. I was there, in '68--'69, and I know firsthand that the vast majority of our troops were decent, honorable people whose main concerns were getting home in one piece and doing the right thing.

And I also would agree that the war was prosecuted in a half-assed, political way that was not effective.

My issues with the Vietnam War are mainly political considerations involving bad decisions dating back to '54 and beyond. But when you put the Vietnam War in the context of the cold war that was going on, I'm not sure we could have acted differently than we did.

Of course we're a lot smarter now, but so what?

[GW in Ohio]

musicman: I never got invited to join a band until I started playing bass. My vocals are pretty good, but not good enough to carry a band or be a folksinger.

I play banjo and guitar well enough to have fun and jam with people, but not well enough for a performance.

[CSM]

I'm open to discussions on Vietnam, guys. I was there, in '68--'69, and I know firsthand that the vast majority of our troops were decent, honorable people whose main concerns were getting home in one piece and doing the right thing.

And I also would agree that the war was prosecuted in a half-assed, political way that was not effective.

My issues with the Vietnam War are mainly political considerations involving bad decisions dating back to '54 and beyond. But when you put the Vietnam War in the context of the cold war that was going on, I'm not sure we could have acted differently than we did.

Of course we're a lot smarter now, but so what?


I was there as well...and agree with you (for the most part) BUT when you say things like "We tucked our tail between our legs and ran like hell" or words to that effect I take exception. I don't know what unit you were in, but I know of damn few units that "ran like hell" in the face of the enemy...maybe that is your personal experience but it sure isn't mine!

[musicman]

musicman: I never got invited to join a band until I started playing bass. My vocals are pretty good, but not good enough to carry a band or be a folksinger.

I play banjo and guitar well enough to have fun and jam with people, but not well enough for a performance.

I'm actually a drummer/vocalist by trade, but I'm able to fill in the thin spots on the schedule with the occasional guitar gig. Very much occasional, thank goodness - I'm more a strummer/singer kind of guy; certainly no great shakes as a player.

I've always envied guys like you and 5 String Jeff, who can make it happen on the bass. As a drummer, I'm very attuned to the bass, and really, REALLY appreciate a good player(makes MY life easier - LOL!). I would have thought that - knowing the neck pretty well, and being a fair hand on general theory and structure - bass would fall pretty easily and naturally to me. But, it just plain doesn't. It's an entirely different animal.

Is anyone else thinking "Debate Policy Jam Session"?

[musicman]

Of course we're a lot smarter now, but so what?

Well, I HOPE we're smarter, because we're in a similar situation: a larger was we MUST win. Unfortunately, I'm not seeing any signs that the left have learned a damn thing.

[GW in Ohio]

I was there as well...and agree with you (for the most part) BUT when you say things like "We tucked our tail between our legs and ran like hell" or words to that effect I take exception. I don't know what unit you were in, but I know of damn few units that "ran like hell" in the face of the enemy...maybe that is your personal experience but it sure isn't mine!

I was not with a fighting unit. It was the 1st Signal Battalion, based at Phu Lam. We were technicians....communications experts.....computer geeks. The only time we actually held weapons was during drills set up as a response to Tet.

It was a very good thing that we didn't handle weapons on a regular basis........

[GW in Ohio]

musicman: My comment (We're a lot smarter now, but so what?) was intended to mean that hindsight is 20/20.

I thought we did a pretty decent job during the cold war, given the tenor of the times, and what we knew then.

[musicman]

musicman: My comment (We're a lot smarter now, but so what?) was intended to mean that hindsight is 20/20.

I thought we did a pretty decent job during the cold war, given the tenor of the times, and what we knew then.

Yep - we won.

[CSM]

I was not with a fighting unit. It was the 1st Signal Battalion, based at Phu Lam. We were technicians....communications experts.....computer geeks. The only time we actually held weapons was during drills set up as a response to Tet.

It was a very good thing that we didn't handle weapons on a regular basis........

LOL...understood. But I bet a nickel to a donut that you guys didn't "run" anywhere either.

What I am trying to clarify is the point that it was NOT the military that "ran like hell". It (the decision to withdraw militarily and then economically) was a political decision fostered by the anti-war movement.

[GW in Ohio]

LOL...understood. But I bet a nickel to a donut that you guys didn't "run" anywhere either.

What I am trying to clarify is the point that it was NOT the military that "ran like hell". It (the decision to withdraw militarily and then economically) was a political decision fostered by the anti-war movement.

I agree that our military never retreated. And I said that with a couple of exceptions, our troops comported themselves remarkably well.

But I also think the decision to get involved in a land war in Asia, fighting an indigenous enemy on their own jungle and mountain terrain was a very questionable one.

But, as I say, hindsight is 20/20. I'm a lot smarter now than Lyndon Johnson and McNamara were in '65, but I've got the benefit of hindsight.

[CSM]

I agree that our military never retreated. And I said that with a couple of exceptions, our troops comported themselves remarkably well.

Yup

But I also think the decision to get involved in a land war in Asia, fighting an indigenous enemy on their own jungle and mountain terrain was a very questionable one.

I am not so certain that the outline above is a primary concern in military planning. If it were, we would only fight wars within our own borders. Such a philosophy would have left an awful lot of folks disappointed in WW II for example. Personally, I would rather they fought the wars like WW II "over there" rather than "Over here".

But, as I say, hindsight is 20/20. I'm a lot smarter now than Lyndon Johnson and McNamara were in '65, but I've got the benefit of hindsight.

Yup.



There are sure a lot of pros and cons to VietNam (and Iraq) and hindsight works wonders.

[glockmail]

I'm open to discussions on Vietnam, guys. I was there, in '68--'69, and I know firsthand that the vast majority of our troops were decent, honorable people whose main concerns were getting home in one piece and doing the right thing.

And I also would agree that the war was prosecuted in a half-assed, political way that was not effective.

My issues with the Vietnam War are mainly political considerations involving bad decisions dating back to '54 and beyond. But when you put the Vietnam War in the context of the cold war that was going on, I'm not sure we could have acted differently than we did.

Of course we're a lot smarter now, but so what?

Apparently we are not, as the liberal Democrats are still siding with the enemy.

[Gaffer]

Apparently we are not, as the liberal Democrats are still siding with the enemy.

The liberals are still using their old strategy as it worked for them before. Unlike Bush they can't figure it out that they have to shnage their strategy in order to win.



Hey Musicman, when you get that jam session together let me know where.

[musicman]

The liberals are still using their old strategy as it worked for them before. Unlike Bush they can't figure it out that they have to shnage their strategy in order to win.



Hey Musicman, when you get that jam session together let me know where.

We'll do it, G-Man! Let's play that Beatles song that I can do correctly now, since you explained the intro to me!

[jimnyc]

When some of us were worrying about our next president... Many of us wrong of course. As to the "most important election"? I think 2016 will be just as important!

[Jeff]

When some of us were worrying about our next president... Many of us wrong of course. As to the "most important election"? I think 2016 will be just as important!


08 was just to get all the pieces in place, Hillary will kill the country completely. But only because Obama couldn't get the job done, he tried but he just couldn't close the deal ( I sure hope I am not speaking to early he still has a little time left )

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

When some of us were worrying about our next president... Many of us wrong of course. As to the "most important election"? I think 2016 will be just as important!

First most important election in a hundred years was 2008(it gave us a dictator). 2016 will be almost as big because it will decide if we change course(as we must) or continue on with this destructive globalist agenda Obama pushes upon us.-Tyr

[NightTrain]

When some of us were worrying about our next president... Many of us wrong of course. As to the "most important election"? I think 2016 will be just as important!

Looking at these last 6 years and the disastrous direction this country is heading, I think the 2016 election may be the most important one ever.

Even with the right President a GOP Congress it's going to be a monumental effort to undo and correct everything Obama & Crew have done to the USA.

And now that he has 'more flexibility' by not having to worry about elections, the policy making is kicking into high gear to lock this country into a socialist utopia that will make Kerry, Reid and Hillary hee-haw with joy.

[gabosaurus]

When some of us were worrying about our next president... Many of us wrong of course. As to the "most important election"? I think 2016 will be just as important!

Absolutely! It is vitally important that we work to keep the right-wing lunatic fringe out of the White House.

[jafar00]

At least you haven't got a leader like ours. He is at war on everyone from families, to the elderly and students. He is introducing a new 2% "debt" tax despite being elected on a promise of no new taxes and is hiking fuel excise making it even more expensive to run a car. These new taxes are going to devastate our economy and it's all for his desire to return to a budget surplus which is something we don't need. He only needs it in order to win votes and say he returned the budget to surplus by the next election. How? New taxes, slashing spending, and selling off government assets. Idiot.

[aboutime]

Absolutely! It is vitally important that we work to keep the right-wing lunatic fringe out of the White House.


Guess that rules any visits to the White House OUT for you gabby.

[gabosaurus]

Guess that rules any visits to the White House OUT for you gabby.

Too late. I've already been there. I told Obama where to find you. :cool:

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

At least you haven't got a leader like ours. He is at war on everyone from families, to the elderly and students. He is introducing a new 2% "debt" tax despite being elected on a promise of no new taxes and is hiking fuel excise making it even more expensive to run a car. These new taxes are going to devastate our economy and it's all for his desire to return to a budget surplus which is something we don't need. He only needs it in order to win votes and say he returned the budget to surplus by the next election. How? New taxes, slashing spending, and selling off government assets. Idiot.

HA!! Our dictator has put us trillions more into debt , raised taxes, destroyed our economy , weakened our military and nation, attacked our freedoms , alienated our allies, and gave the world countless reasons to laugh at us!!
Easy to see that you have not been keeping up on the malicious actions of our traitor! -Tyr

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Too late. I've already been there. I told Obama where to find you. :cool:

Send the worm my address too. This American would love to curse his sorry, worthless , lying ass out face to face and by God I'd do it too! If you doubt that you haven't a clue who I really am.. --Tyr

[NightTrain]

At least you haven't got a leader like ours. He is at war on everyone from families, to the elderly and students. He is introducing a new 2% "debt" tax despite being elected on a promise of no new taxes and is hiking fuel excise making it even more expensive to run a car. These new taxes are going to devastate our economy and it's all for his desire to return to a budget surplus which is something we don't need. He only needs it in order to win votes and say he returned the budget to surplus by the next election. How? New taxes, slashing spending, and selling off government assets. Idiot.

Well, a leader that lies about no new taxes is the reason Bush 1 wasn't re-elected. Once they outright lie to the voting public, they're through - at least that's how it used to be, somehow Obama escaped that - but his big whoppers came to light after he won the 2nd election.

The other reason for Bush 1 losing his 2nd election was Ross Perot splitting the conservative vote, but that's another topic regarding the dangers of 3rd parties on the national level.

Your man might have an uphill battle for lying about imposing new taxes... it's not something voters will forget.

Many politicians have promised such things while campaigning and after winning discovered they hadn't had a full grasp on the situation when the promise was made... and then things get ugly. Do you do what the financial experts are telling you needs to be done or do you stick to your word despite the situation worsening?

I suspect it's real easy to promise things when you don't have all the facts, and that's something most of them have in common.

[namvet]

Send the worm my address too. This American would love to curse his sorry, worthless , lying ass out face to face and by God I'd do it too! If you doubt that you haven't a clue who I really am.. --Tyr

ill take a piece of that action

[aboutime]

Too late. I've already been there. I told Obama where to find you. :cool:


Not surprised. But...Like others here. I welcome anything the LIAR-IN-CHIEF, and Master-of-Deceit tries to do to SILENCE people like me.

Oh, I forgot to congratulate you for graduating from the OBAMA-LIBERAL-ACORN-BRAINWASHING academy. Maybe someday you will feel disgusted enough to show us your Certificate of Ignorance.

[namvet]

Not surprised. But...Like others here. I welcome anything the LIAR-IN-CHIEF, and Master-of-Deceit tries to do to SILENCE people like me.

Oh, I forgot to congratulate you for graduating from the OBAMA-LIBERAL-ACORN-BRAINWASHING academy. Maybe someday you will feel disgusted enough to show us your Certificate of Ignorance.

no worry Obozo hasn't a clue where he is

[aboutime]

no worry Obozo hasn't a clue where he is


namvet. Some people think Obama believes he is still in ACORN-LAND (Chicago), where all of his illiterate students, easily-led, gullible, uneducated Followers worship the very Cesspool he owns.