Questions for conservatives

[midcan5]

Before I get banned for apostasy, I want to ask a few questions and pose a few thoughts.

Pale Rider has already given me negative rep points because he disagrees with a post.

I thought this was America and I thought we valued free speech. Am I wrong?

Why do conservatives believe global warming is a natural phenomenon and homosexuality is not a natural phenomenon? Neither is well understood.

Why are conservatives abandoning George W. Bush? Did he not follow key conservative policy to reduce taxes, reduce government help, and increase the military?

Why do conservatives question evolution?

Why do conservatives believe in 'trickle down' economics, called 'supply side' today?

Why are conservatives pro war, pro death penalty, but anti foreign aid and anti abortion?

Why are conservatives anti public education?

Why do conservatives want to break down the separation between church and state?

You have military person on site page and yet conservative policies have consistently reduced help for the military?

Why so many vulgar emoticons? I find them childish.


"Freedom depends on how men actually do behave, not upon how they are allowed to behave. It is a matter of character, not of foolproof constitutional devices. For fools are paramount in politics, and there is nothing which they are unable to destroy." p 156 The Liberal Mind Kenneth Minogue

http://oll.libertyfund.org/Home3/Book.php?recordID=0089

[Dilloduck]

Before I get banned for apostasy, I want to ask a few questions and pose a few thoughts.

Pale Rider has already given me negative rep points because he disagrees with a post.

I thought this was America and I thought we valued free speech. Am I wrong?

http://oll.libertyfund.org/Home3/Book.php?recordID=0089

Reputation pts are meaningless. You are free to say whatever you want. People are free to respond to what you say. How simple can it get?

[midcan5]

Reputation pts are meaningless. You are free to say whatever you want. People are free to respond to what you say. How simple can it get?

I may agree if that came from an examination of the piece in question. For fascists like PF it is a form of censorship. I know that seems contradictory given the ability to freely post but think about it for a second.

[theHawk]

Why do conservatives believe global warming is a natural phenomenon and homosexuality is not a natural phenomenon? Neither is well understood.
Global warming is a natural phenomenon, because historical geological records prove it. Our planet has gone through many cycles of ice ages followed by rapid increase in global temperatures. Temperatures have been rising for the last 15,000 years. Its nothing to fear, its happened before and will happen again. But liberals like Gore want to play on people's fears and use it for political advantage. They want to use the opportunity to enable more government control over people's lives.

Homosexuality, is a personal choice. Its an act that is carried out by an individual. Just because it happens in nature doesn't make it moral. Liberals have argued that monkeys and dolphins have exhibited homosexual behavior, as if that justifies human behavior. Many species of animals also kill their own kind and even eat their own young, does that mean it should be ok for humans to do the same? Of course not, which is why looking to the animal kingdom for moral justification is absurd.



Why are conservatives abandoning George W. Bush? Did he not follow key conservative policy to reduce taxes, reduce government help, and increase the military?
Conservatives have never been blind followers of Bush from the begining, even though thats what most liberals liked to believe at the time. He was simply the better choice over Al Gore. He does have several conservative principles, but he abandoned several as well...such as his immigration reform attempts.



Why do conservatives question evolution?
Because it has never been proven. It is still only a theory. And it certainly doesn't explain the creation of life. Certainly most conservative such as myself do agree with certain aspects of the theory of evolution, such as natural selection. But it doesn't prove there is no God and that He didn't have a part in creation.



Why do conservatives believe in 'trickle down' economics, called 'supply side' today?
I would say because its common sense. You have to realize that the business owners are the ones who provide people with jobs. If we tax them to death then they have less money to invest in business and economic growth is stumped. Taxing less allows for more growth and even brings in more revenue.



Why are conservatives pro war, pro death penalty, but anti foreign aid and anti abortion?
Because we are for standing up against an injustice, and we believe that some things are worth fighting for. I suspect liberals are "anti-war" because they don't believe anything is really worth fighting for. The spreading of freedom and democracy as well as the preservation of them is not worth fighting for to them, for conservatives it is.

We are pro death penalty because we believe people should be held accountable for their actions. How anyone can believe a child molester or murderer shouldn't be put to death is beyond me.

Foreign aid is a form a charity, and as conservatives we believe charity is best left to private charity organizations. They can better handle the money and there is less red tape. US citizens should not be taxed to make payments to foreign countries. If they wish to help some foreign cause, by all means, they can open their checkbooks.

Why would we be anti-abortion? Maybe because it involves killing an innocent child? Not to mention the fact the both women and men should take responsiblity for their actions.



Why are conservatives anti public education?
Because public education is run by liberals. Its apparent now that no matter how much money is thrown towards education, its only going to get worse. Again, its a clear cut example of when government intervines, it only makes the situation worse.



Why do conservatives want to break down the separation between church and state?
There is no "separation of church and state" in the Constitution. Its a liberal fabrication. The first words of the First Amendment are "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof". Which simply means Congress will not pass a law making a state religion. One could just as easily ask 'why do liberals want to prohibit the free exercise of religion?' Liberals seem to believe that passing a law that reflects religious belief is somehow in violation of the First Amendment. But just about every law in the books has religious roots. Laws against murder, rape, stealing, and lying under oath, are all laws or commandments by God in the bible.




You have military person on site page and yet conservative policies have consistently reduced help for the military?
I really have no idea what you are talking about. Liberal policies have gutted the military down to a shell of its former self. Conservatives support greatly increasing the size of the military to the pre-Clinton days, and increasing benefits for veterans.

[MtnBiker]

Before I get banned for apostasy


Before you get banned? Is it your intent to get banned?

Banning will result from breaking the rules.

[PostmodernProphet]

Why do conservatives believe global warming is a natural phenomenon and homosexuality is not a natural phenomenon?

both are natural phenomena.....now, why do liberals believe that alchoholism is a natural phenomena that ought to be restrained while homosexuality is a natural phenomena that ought to be normalized?......


Why are conservatives abandoning George W. Bush? Did he not follow key conservative policy to reduce taxes, reduce government help, and increase the military?

because he failed to follow another key conservative policy....reigning in government spending.....


Why do conservatives question evolution?

when did evolution become a political issue?


Why do conservatives believe in 'trickle down' economics, called 'supply side' today?

because it is logical....


Why are conservatives pro war, pro death penalty, but anti foreign aid and anti abortion?
which war?....I am pro-Iraq because I believe that Saddam would have had to have been dealt with eventually anyway.....he had already started two wars in the Middle East.....I am not pro death penalty, I am not anti-foriegn aid, though I certainly am anti-abortion...


Why are conservatives anti public education?

because it is done so badly....I would be in support of public education done well....


Why do conservatives want to break down the separation between church and state?

not happening, we are merely trying to prevent the suppression of religion BY the state....


You have military person on site page and yet conservative policies have consistently reduced help for the military?

this may be true where you live, but not in the US.....where are you posting from?

[actsnoblemartin]

ok, ill play conservative spokesman :dance:


Before I get banned for apostasy, I want to ask a few questions and pose a few thoughts.

Pale Rider has already given me negative rep points because he disagrees with a post.

I thought this was America and I thought we valued free speech. Am I wrong?

actsnoblemartin: I disagree with negging simply for disagreement, and i try not to do it myself

Why do conservatives believe global warming is a natural phenomenon and homosexuality is not a natural phenomenon? Neither is well understood.

actsnoblemartin: conservatives believe it is arrogant to believe that humans control climate exclusively, climate changes... do we have something to do with it yes, but running around like chickens with our heads cut off and using our food supply, for fuel, which raises costs is not the answer

Why are conservatives abandoning George W. Bush? Did he not follow key conservative policy to reduce taxes, reduce government help, and increase the military?

actsnoblemartin: because bush betrayed conservatives, and conservative principles of limited government, bush did lower taxes, but grew the government in ways we would go ape shit over if a lib did, see prescription drug entitlement, and i dont know if he increased the military

Why do conservatives question evolution?

actsnoblemartin: because we believe in god, and we see no proof that we came from a monkey, and it seems insulting to see i grew from a dam dirty ape

Why do conservatives believe in 'trickle down' economics, called 'supply side' today?

actsnoblemartin: i dont understand this, to comment

Why are conservatives pro war, pro death penalty, but anti foreign aid and anti abortion?

actsnoblemartin: we are not pro war, we are pro troops, and we believe in supporting the mission, and while it is possible to be anti war and pro troops, the fringes on the left are not pro troops by their actions alone.

Why are conservatives anti public education?

actsnoblemartin: because public education doesnt work, we spend 10k per pupil, and we still have lousy results, the private sector could do better with half the money i bet. plus schools dont teach kids how to think, only what do think

Why do conservatives want to break down the separation between church and state?

actsnoblemartin: liberals believe in exclusion of anyone who is religious from serving in government and exclusion of any mention of religion, while they will take college kids to brothels, they see religion as pornography, and pornography as the bible. conservatives believe that seperation means the church doesnt run the government, but that displaying a christmas tree, is not infringing on their rights as christians or mine as a jew. its a christmas tree, god forbid the president celebrates christmas :laugh2:

You have military person on site page and yet conservative policies have consistently reduced help for the military?

actsnoblemartin: im not sure what your talking about

Why so many vulgar emoticons? I find them childish.

actsnoblemartin: we have a sick twisted sense of humor :laugh2:, cant help you there


"Freedom depends on how men actually do behave, not upon how they are allowed to behave. It is a matter of character, not of foolproof constitutional devices. For fools are paramount in politics, and there is nothing which they are unable to destroy." p 156 The Liberal Mind Kenneth Minogue

http://oll.libertyfund.org/Home3/Book.php?recordID=0089

[April15]

Midcan if you are a liberal person then the negative reps are little badges of victory. They signify that you hit a nerve and got a kneejerk response.
revel in them as a lib should.
As for the other questions just know that they do. Reason is not required just ditto.

[OCA]

ok, ill play conservative spokesman :dance:

Oh jeeez, yes all conservatives strive to have you be their spokesman.:laugh2:

Can anyone say "muzzle"?

[CockySOB]

Before I get banned for apostasy, I want to ask a few questions and pose a few thoughts.

Pale Rider has already given me negative rep points because he disagrees with a post.

I thought this was America and I thought we valued free speech. Am I wrong?

Why do conservatives believe global warming is a natural phenomenon and homosexuality is not a natural phenomenon? Neither is well understood.

Why are conservatives abandoning George W. Bush? Did he not follow key conservative policy to reduce taxes, reduce government help, and increase the military?

Why do conservatives question evolution?

Why do conservatives believe in 'trickle down' economics, called 'supply side' today?

Why are conservatives pro war, pro death penalty, but anti foreign aid and anti abortion?

Why are conservatives anti public education?

Why do conservatives want to break down the separation between church and state?

You have military person on site page and yet conservative policies have consistently reduced help for the military?

Why so many vulgar emoticons? I find them childish.


"Freedom depends on how men actually do behave, not upon how they are allowed to behave. It is a matter of character, not of foolproof constitutional devices. For fools are paramount in politics, and there is nothing which they are unable to destroy." p 156 The Liberal Mind Kenneth Minogue

http://oll.libertyfund.org/Home3/Book.php?recordID=0089

Your post contains enough false implications that it should be cited on the wikipedia entry for logical fallacy. Why not clarify each of your questions in separate posts, and be sure to include your thoughts as to why the various propositions you propose are related.

I won't hold my breath though, as I figure it was intended to be troll-baiting rhetoric from a hyper-liberal/socialist partisan hack than any real quest for information.

[Pale Rider]

Before I get banned for apostasy, I want to ask a few questions and pose a few thoughts.

Pale Rider has already given me negative rep points because he disagrees with a post.

I thought this was America and I thought we valued free speech. Am I wrong?

Why do conservatives believe global warming is a natural phenomenon and homosexuality is not a natural phenomenon? Neither is well understood.

Why are conservatives abandoning George W. Bush? Did he not follow key conservative policy to reduce taxes, reduce government help, and increase the military?

Why do conservatives question evolution?

Why do conservatives believe in 'trickle down' economics, called 'supply side' today?

Why are conservatives pro war, pro death penalty, but anti foreign aid and anti abortion?

Why are conservatives anti public education?

Why do conservatives want to break down the separation between church and state?

You have military person on site page and yet conservative policies have consistently reduced help for the military?

Why so many vulgar emoticons? I find them childish.


"Freedom depends on how men actually do behave, not upon how they are allowed to behave. It is a matter of character, not of foolproof constitutional devices. For fools are paramount in politics, and there is nothing which they are unable to destroy." p 156 The Liberal Mind Kenneth Minogue

http://oll.libertyfund.org/Home3/Book.php?recordID=0089

I only have one question for you... "why are you a whiny little liberal?"

Reputation is there for us to show our approval or disapproval of what others here say. If you don't like it, either quite you're sniveling or shove off.

[retiredman]

I only have one question for you... "why are you a whiny little liberal?"

Reputation is there for us to show our approval or disapproval of what others here say. If you don't like it, either quite you're sniveling or shove off.


hey greasemonkey! who died and made you the fuckin' boss?:fu:

[82Marine89]

Before I get banned for apostasy, I want to ask a few questions and pose a few thoughts.

Pale Rider has already given me negative rep points because he disagrees with a post.

I thought this was America and I thought we valued free speech. Am I wrong?

Why do conservatives believe global warming is a natural phenomenon and homosexuality is not a natural phenomenon? Neither is well understood.

Why are conservatives abandoning George W. Bush? Did he not follow key conservative policy to reduce taxes, reduce government help, and increase the military?

Why do conservatives question evolution?

Why do conservatives believe in 'trickle down' economics, called 'supply side' today?

Why are conservatives pro war, pro death penalty, but anti foreign aid and anti abortion?

Why are conservatives anti public education?

Why do conservatives want to break down the separation between church and state?

You have military person on site page and yet conservative policies have consistently reduced help for the military?

Why so many vulgar emoticons? I find them childish.


"Freedom depends on how men actually do behave, not upon how they are allowed to behave. It is a matter of character, not of foolproof constitutional devices. For fools are paramount in politics, and there is nothing which they are unable to destroy." p 156 The Liberal Mind Kenneth Minogue

http://oll.libertyfund.org/Home3/Book.php?recordID=0089

Why? Because we like you. M-O-U-S-E. :fu:

[Pale Rider]

hey greasemonkey! who died and made you the fuckin' boss?

Hey scabby... the imaginary preacher... don't you have to suck hussein's dick or something? :fu:

And just to update you scab... "I'm retired."

[Hobbit]

I'm libertarian, but I'll field this.


Before I get banned for apostasy, I want to ask a few questions and pose a few thoughts.

Pale Rider has already given me negative rep points because he disagrees with a post.

I thought this was America and I thought we valued free speech. Am I wrong?

No, but we value free speech for everybody. You can say whatever you want and Pale Rider can say whatever he wants about it. Reputation has no more stifling affect on your speech than, say, flaming. Rep is nothing but a game, so just get over it and move on. To get banned, you must break the rules.


Why do conservatives believe global warming is a natural phenomenon and homosexuality is not a natural phenomenon? Neither is well understood.

Because it is what makes the most sense to some people, given the evidence. I must admit that I haven't made up my mind on homosexuality, but it doesn't change my moral stance on it. If it is a natural phenomenon, it should be treated just like the natural phenomena kleptomania and psychopathy, that is, diagnosed, treated, suppressed, and, hopefully, cured, rather than excused and normalized.

On the other hand, you make the statement as if the logical conclusion is to find either both or neither are natural phenomena, yet your stance is that global warming is man-made, while homosexuality is natural. Aren't you equally opposed to your own argument as the conservatives you criticize?


Why are conservatives abandoning George W. Bush? Did he not follow key conservative policy to reduce taxes, reduce government help, and increase the military?

He's the president, not the Messiah. Even Reagan wasn't anywhere near perfect, and Bush is no Reagan. Yes, he cut taxes and kept the military strong, but he expanded medicare, tried to grant amnesty to illegals, and refused to reign in government spending.


Why do conservatives question evolution?

Because science needs to be questioned. The modern understanding of the solar system wouldn't exist if Galileo hadn't gone against convention and questioned whether or not the Earth was the center of the universe. String theory is being tested this summer and was once accepted as fact. The real question is why evolutionists are so touchy about evolution being questioned. If it is true, then it will stand on its own.


Why do conservatives believe in 'trickle down' economics, called 'supply side' today?

For the same reason we believe in gravity.


Why are conservatives pro war, pro death penalty, but anti foreign aid and anti abortion?

You phrase that as if those views should be mutually exclusive. It's all about human rights, self-sufficiency, and justice. The death penalty is justice for people like cop killers. Nobody's pro-war, but we conservatives think that it is sometimes necessary in the face of greater horrors. War has ended slavery and genocide across the world. It has its uses. We are against most forms of foreign aid, because it typically goes to lining the pockets of some dictator who will use the money to buy weapons to wage genocide. Even countries that don't do this have shifted their focus from advancing themselves economically to attempting to get the most U.S. foreign aid. Finally, we're against abortion because we hold all human life as sacred, and abortion sacrifices that life while almost always accomplishing nothing other than convenience.


Why are conservatives anti public education?

We're against government education because the government never does anything very well and educating children is something too important to be left up to an organization with that kind of track record. Just look at government schools compared to private and home schooling, and any numskull can figure out why so many people abhor government education.


Why do conservatives want to break down the separation between church and state?

Because the total divorce of anything considered 'public' from religion is unconstitutional, as it prohibits the free exercise of religion. Separation of church and state is nowhere in the Constitution, and while they should keep a healthy distance, the extreme to which it has been taken is nothing short of ludicrous.


You have military person on site page and yet conservative policies have consistently reduced help for the military?

WRONG! The policies of some self-labeled conservative politicians have done injustice to the military, but standard conservative policy is to take care of the military so they can take care of us. I also really dont' recall any big bill being passed that hurt the military.


Why so many vulgar emoticons? I find them childish.

Wrong person to ask. That's more of a board question than a conservative question.


"Freedom depends on how men actually do behave, not upon how they are allowed to behave. It is a matter of character, not of foolproof constitutional devices. For fools are paramount in politics, and there is nothing which they are unable to destroy." p 156 The Liberal Mind Kenneth Minogue

http://oll.libertyfund.org/Home3/Book.php?recordID=0089

That quote seems to be redefining freedom in such a way as to keep 'fools' from screwing it up. That is the very antithesis of freedom, and anybody who subscribes to that tripe and calls it freedom is either stupid or a liar.

[DragonStryk72]

Before I get banned for apostasy, I want to ask a few questions and pose a few thoughts.

Pale Rider has already given me negative rep points because he disagrees with a post.

I thought this was America and I thought we valued free speech. Am I wrong?

No, but rep has neither to do with positive or negative rep, it is simply response to what you have written. Some people are freer with the rep than others, which, in its own ways, is a form of expression.


Why do conservatives believe global warming is a natural phenomenon and homosexuality is not a natural phenomenon? Neither is well understood.

Well, conservatives initially doubted the findings, however, while I do believe there is validity to global warming, the problem has become one create by the very people trying to fight. Scientists have admitted that they've blown up to numbers, doing so to get people to take notice.

The problem is that this creates the perfect atmosphere to shoot down even the legitimate studies, all due to a few who have taken advantage. I do believe as well that we do need to start shifting over to more environmentally conscious energy, I also believe that it needs to occur at a slow steady pace, that we can absorb, and our businesses can adapt to.

Why are conservatives abandoning George W. Bush? Did he not follow key conservative policy to reduce taxes, reduce government help, and increase the military?

Well, you haven't heard this one from me before, but Bush is neither conservative, nor is he a republican, he is simply using those monikers to swing votes. Points against being a conservative: Has increased the power of the government, spent more than any administration that has come before, and has consistently minimized people's individual rights.

Points against being a republican: He has increased the power of the presidency at the cost of the senate. The reason this goes against a Republican ideal is that a Republic relies on the power of the Senate to make its decision.

Why do conservatives question evolution?

This is not conservative, that's a mistake to make that connection. Some christians (and likely some members of other religions) believe in creationism, that, by the very laws of science as we know them, that the world, and life itself, could not have occured without the hand of a divine creator. Me, I've never seen there to be a reason that both cannot be true.

Why do conservatives believe in 'trickle down' economics, called 'supply side' today?

The basic idea is that taxing the rich highly is useless, as well, they're rich for a reason, either becuase they're good with money, or they've been good at hiring the people who are good with money.

Now, as well, they believe that keeping the business taxes low both lowers the cost of goods, while helping new businesses to become more well established. the main culprit though, is the very tax system we are using, since it punishes both saving and earning. I, and many others, believe that The Fair Tax is needed to address this growing problem (I have the link in my sig line). taxing anyone more simply because they have done well at their job, is wrong, and can only hurt our economy, and the ability of the people to make lives for themselves.

Why are conservatives pro war, pro death penalty, but anti foreign aid and anti abortion?

Okay, again, conservatives are not of one mind. the general belief that is going around is that, were we to pull out of Iraq, that it would only embolden those that would seek to harm us.

In my opinion, when we took out their entire infrastructure, we took on the responsibility of fixing what we broke, and don't kid yourself, most of the liberal dems currently in office or running voted in favor of the war.

Almost all of the country we give foreign aid to, even as our own economy flounders, vote against us in the UN repeatedly, despite all that we have helped them with. They speak against us, and then smile at us when they need money, volunteers, or materials. My belief is that we should get our own house in order before we even attempt to tell others how to live.

Not all conservatives are pro-death penalty, although I am, in particular. the fact of the matter is, I do believe that death is more humanely done to a man, than fifty years or more in prison. As well, it is the sheer deterent of it, as, when you look at crime rates, when there is a death penalty in effect, the violent crime rates immediately drop.

Why are conservatives anti public education?

I have no idea where you got that one, but that's just wrong. Do we believe that No Child Left Behind left all of our children behind? Yes. Public education is a good thing, it gives everyone a chance to succeed, the opportunity to do something with their lives that they wouldn't have otherwise.

Now, the federal government has absolutely no right to determine how the states educate their students, none at all, and is in fact, screwing all 50 out of their 10th amendment rights. This all wouldn't be so bad, had the federal government not completely, and absolutely screwed the pooch on it.

Why do conservatives want to break down the separation between church and state?

No True conservative wants that, they just don't. This again the difference between evangelicals and conservatives. On certain issues, both sides prickle, and unfortunately, it seems like our entire government has developed a "with me or against me" stance.

Having a belief that abortion is wrong due to the religious beliefs of your upbringing tell you that it is wrong are not eroding the separation of church and state.

You have military person on site page and yet conservative policies have consistently reduced help for the military?

Liberals have hit them too, although in different ways. although the illegal stop-lossing of our troops continues throughout this little "police action" of ours, not one dem has stepped up to try and put a stop to it. Now, if you were running for President, don't you think that you would at least try to speak against a terrible wrong being done to our military?

Why so many vulgar emoticons? I find them childish.

No answer for you there, I just skip using them.

"Freedom depends on how men actually do behave, not upon how they are allowed to behave. It is a matter of character, not of foolproof constitutional devices. For fools are paramount in politics, and there is nothing which they are unable to destroy." p 156 The Liberal Mind Kenneth Minogue

http://oll.libertyfund.org/Home3/Book.php?recordID=0089

'

[avatar4321]

I may agree if that came from an examination of the piece in question. For fascists like PF it is a form of censorship. I know that seems contradictory given the ability to freely post but think about it for a second.

well considering your politics, youd be the authority on fascism wouldnt you?

[avatar4321]

Why so many vulgar emoticons? I find them childish.


Ill tackle this one simply because the other bore me and have been answered. (These questions are especially amusing considering the particular poster has on other threads attacked others from being idealogues.)

However, for this question it's simple. Free speech. People are free to say what they want. IT doesnt matter how vuglar and crude it is. Its free speech. Free speech doesnt necessarily mean its going to be proper and not offend people.

I just find this incredibly amusing because you are the one screaming about fascism and this is a very fascist question to ask.

[midcan5]

Egads, I will try to read through these replies and answer those that pose a question or form some thought.

[mundame]

Before I get banned for apostasy, I want to ask a few questions and pose a few thoughts.

Nice questions, midcan --- you see they have been popular.




Pale Rider has already given me negative rep points because he disagrees with a post.

I thought this was America and I thought we valued free speech. Am I wrong?


We do value free speech, and this is it: you speak freely and some people give you negative reps for it. http://macg.net/emoticons/smileevil.gif

The Constitution doesn't say anything about people PRAISING your speech, you know! Or giving you an audience.


Why do conservatives believe global warming is a natural phenomenon and homosexuality is not a natural phenomenon? Neither is well understood.

You are implying they are both the same, natural? Many of us --- especially those who were around during the 1970s "HERE COME THE GLACIERS" New Ice Age scare --- think it's all nonsense. Just a Bush hatred thing. In the late 70s, it was Carter we hated. People who feel no confidence in their king or leader often project that fear onto ideas of apolcalyse.

As for homosexuality, doesn't seem especially natural to me --- two men can't reproduce.



Why do conservatives question evolution?

That's purely a religious thing, of a few sects. Not common, I'm sure.



Why do conservatives believe in 'trickle down' economics, called 'supply side' today?

I believe it because it works great! Darn, it's the sole, only thing that George Bush has done RIGHT, don't take even that away from the poor man!


Why are conservatives pro war, pro death penalty, but anti foreign aid and anti abortion?

Because some of us are mean and nasty and hate women and foreigners. Duh.


Why are conservatives anti public education?

I bet I know what you are trying to ask here, but you need to ask it specifically.



Why do conservatives want to break down the separation between church and state?

Some of the giant churches in Florida and elsewhere are set up to do social services. Also the Catholic church. The states would very much like to take advantage of this, but separation of church and state impedes them. Personally, I think if we get started on this, we'll be sorry: Muslims will start up doing "services" that suck people into mosques and the violent Muslim religion. Not to mention even worse, such as Mormon fundamentalists doing "social services" with little girls. So maybe we're better off with the separation.




Why so many vulgar emoticons? I find them childish.


Oh, Shirley, not! http://bestsmileys.com/signs16/18.gif http://bestsmileys.com/transform/2.gif http://bestsmileys.com/ballons/2.gif

[/quote]

[midcan5]

theHawk and in some cases others,

Global warming is a fact, what its outcome will be I will probably not know as most of us will be dead. Most scientists agree today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtF0l-yuL6E
This one answered most of the skeptics:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656640542976216573

When was it you decided you were going to be straight? was it a hard decision for you? did you try both before settling on one or the other? Do you sometimes wonder if you made the right decision.

I always suggest to people who say homosexuality is a choice, to try switch hitting and let us all know how it went?

So conservatives abandon those of their same ideology and don't feel like you could help them by showing them the true conservative way? Or could it be that conservatism is no good at management because management requires us to go forward and not stand still.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2006/0607.wolfe.html

Evolution is a theory like gravity or relativity. Do this test, take off your clothes stand in front of a mirror with wife or girlfriend and then visit the ape section of the local zoo. We do have a more complex language but we sure as hell are made the same. And if you are of faith remember it is 'faith' and even the stodgy Catholic Church recognizes evolution as fact.

Reagan proved trickle down doesn't work as the economy tanked, Bush is doing the same today and guess what the economy is doing? They don't call it voodoo economics for nothing.

Justice can be a hard thing sometimes, especially when they execute an innocent man or go to war over WMDs that never existed. Foreign aid by all is a big help and while smaller organizations can do well, only broad organized units will stay focused on the work. My aunt was a sister of charity who related the difficulties of charity often.

Suppose there were no separation, which religion would be the chief religion you think? We may not all agree, actually no one would agree.

Bush still cuts back on support for the military, you do realize that part of conservatism is a social darwinism that says the individual is responsible for themselves. That goes for military as well as the rest of us.

[Yurt]

midcan5;230970]theHawk and in some cases others,

Global warming is a fact, what its outcome will be I will probably not know as most of us will be dead. Most scientists agree today.


if it is fact, why don't all scientist agree?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtF0l-yuL6E
This one answered most of the skeptics:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656640542976216573

When was it you decided you were going to be straight? was it a hard decision for you? did you try both before settling on one or the other? Do you sometimes wonder if you made the right decision.

I always suggest to people who say homosexuality is a choice, to try switch hitting and let us all know how it went?

really funny coming from somone who believes in evolution....i suppose in order to evolve as a species, homosexuality is the way to go....



Evolution is a theory like gravity or relativity. Do this test, take off your clothes stand in front of a mirror with wife or girlfriend and then visit the ape section of the local zoo. We do have a more complex language but we sure as hell are made the same. And if you are of faith remember it is 'faith' and even the stodgy Catholic Church recognizes evolution as fact.

so the catholic church is saying that genesis got it wrong and that the scientist got it right? link?

[Gaffer]

theHawk and in some cases others,

Global warming is a fact, what its outcome will be I will probably not know as most of us will be dead. Most scientists agree today.

Global warming is a gore myth to make him big bucks. The globe has actually been going through a cooling spell for the last 15 years. Some scientists think there is warming, others think there is cooling. And many will say anything to get funding.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtF0l-yuL6E
This one answered most of the skeptics:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656640542976216573

When was it you decided you were going to be straight? was it a hard decision for you? did you try both before settling on one or the other? Do you sometimes wonder if you made the right decision.

I always suggest to people who say homosexuality is a choice, to try switch hitting and let us all know how it went?

I have no use for faggot conversations.

So conservatives abandon those of their same ideology and don't feel like you could help them by showing them the true conservative way? Or could it be that conservatism is no good at management because management requires us to go forward and not stand still.

?

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2006/0607.wolfe.html

Evolution is a theory like gravity or relativity. Do this test, take off your clothes stand in front of a mirror with wife or girlfriend and then visit the ape section of the local zoo. We do have a more complex language but we sure as hell are made the same. And if you are of faith remember it is 'faith' and even the stodgy Catholic Church recognizes evolution as fact.

Gravity is not a theory. Evolution is a theory. But there are a lot of facts to back up evolution. There is also a theory that people were placed here by an alien race. No facts to back that up though. Some people have faith in a devine being while others, like me, have faith in facts and figures.

Reagan proved trickle down doesn't work as the economy tanked, Bush is doing the same today and guess what the economy is doing? They don't call it voodoo economics for nothing.

Reagan was right. He was also dealing with the cold war and a lot of other factors.

Justice can be a hard thing sometimes, especially when they execute an innocent man or go to war over WMDs that never existed. Foreign aid by all is a big help and while smaller organizations can do well, only broad organized units will stay focused on the work. My aunt was a sister of charity who related the difficulties of charity often.

So you want to talk about executing innocent people or do you want to talk about WMD's? Executions of prisoners has nothing to do with someones politics. WMD's were in iraq. They just weren't there when we went in.

As for the rest of the paragraph I have no idea what your getting at.

Suppose there were no separation, which religion would be the chief religion you think? We may not all agree, actually no one would agree.

There should be no religion.

Bush still cuts back on support for the military, you do realize that part of conservatism is a social darwinism that says the individual is responsible for themselves. That goes for military as well as the rest of us.

Cuts back what? The rest of your statement again doesn't make any sense.

You my try framing your questions better and in separate threads. You are allowed to start as many threads as you want here. There's no thread limit.

[avatar4321]

theHawk and in some cases others,

Global warming is a fact, what its outcome will be I will probably not know as most of us will be dead. Most scientists agree today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtF0l-yuL6E
This one answered most of the skeptics:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656640542976216573

When was it you decided you were going to be straight? was it a hard decision for you? did you try both before settling on one or the other? Do you sometimes wonder if you made the right decision.

I always suggest to people who say homosexuality is a choice, to try switch hitting and let us all know how it went?

So conservatives abandon those of their same ideology and don't feel like you could help them by showing them the true conservative way? Or could it be that conservatism is no good at management because management requires us to go forward and not stand still.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2006/0607.wolfe.html

Evolution is a theory like gravity or relativity. Do this test, take off your clothes stand in front of a mirror with wife or girlfriend and then visit the ape section of the local zoo. We do have a more complex language but we sure as hell are made the same. And if you are of faith remember it is 'faith' and even the stodgy Catholic Church recognizes evolution as fact.

Reagan proved trickle down doesn't work as the economy tanked, Bush is doing the same today and guess what the economy is doing? They don't call it voodoo economics for nothing.

Justice can be a hard thing sometimes, especially when they execute an innocent man or go to war over WMDs that never existed. Foreign aid by all is a big help and while smaller organizations can do well, only broad organized units will stay focused on the work. My aunt was a sister of charity who related the difficulties of charity often.

Suppose there were no separation, which religion would be the chief religion you think? We may not all agree, actually no one would agree.

Bush still cuts back on support for the military, you do realize that part of conservatism is a social darwinism that says the individual is responsible for themselves. That goes for military as well as the rest of us.

The tempature hasnt gone up in 10 years. If this is global warming, why are the idealogues shifting vocabulary to "climate change"? its because its a bunch of bunk and they want people thinking climate change when its obvious the world isnt warming.

Scientists cant tell us what the weather is in two weeks with certainty and you want us to believe that they can tell us whats going to happen in twenty years? And we are supposed to just let the government regulate our lives on the basis of this spectacular evidence?

Why dont you start thinking for yourself here.

[theHawk]

Reagan proved trickle down doesn't work as the economy tanked, Bush is doing the same today and guess what the economy is doing? They don't call it voodoo economics for nothing.
Why is it that whenever the economy pulls back a little or even goes into recession, liberals decry capitalism and push forward their socialist agenda? Capitalism in its nature will grow in spurts and slow down. Are you suggesting that socialst economics would produce a stronger and more robust economy than capitalism? If so I'd like for you to point out which of the many socialist countries out there is stronger than the US'.




Suppose there were no separation, which religion would be the chief religion you think? We may not all agree, actually no one would agree.
I don't even know what you mean by what would be the 'chief religion'. What does the most dominate religion have to do with anything?




Bush still cuts back on support for the military, you do realize that part of conservatism is a social darwinism that says the individual is responsible for themselves. That goes for military as well as the rest of us.
I wasn't aware that the military was an 'individual'. You really need to remove your head from your ass.
And what the fuck does Bush have to do with conservatism?

[avatar4321]

theHawk and in some cases others,

Global warming is a fact, what its outcome will be I will probably not know as most of us will be dead. Most scientists agree today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtF0l-yuL6E
This one answered most of the skeptics:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656640542976216573

When was it you decided you were going to be straight? was it a hard decision for you? did you try both before settling on one or the other? Do you sometimes wonder if you made the right decision.

I always suggest to people who say homosexuality is a choice, to try switch hitting and let us all know how it went?

So conservatives abandon those of their same ideology and don't feel like you could help them by showing them the true conservative way? Or could it be that conservatism is no good at management because management requires us to go forward and not stand still.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2006/0607.wolfe.html

Evolution is a theory like gravity or relativity. Do this test, take off your clothes stand in front of a mirror with wife or girlfriend and then visit the ape section of the local zoo. We do have a more complex language but we sure as hell are made the same. And if you are of faith remember it is 'faith' and even the stodgy Catholic Church recognizes evolution as fact.

Reagan proved trickle down doesn't work as the economy tanked, Bush is doing the same today and guess what the economy is doing? They don't call it voodoo economics for nothing.

Justice can be a hard thing sometimes, especially when they execute an innocent man or go to war over WMDs that never existed. Foreign aid by all is a big help and while smaller organizations can do well, only broad organized units will stay focused on the work. My aunt was a sister of charity who related the difficulties of charity often.

Suppose there were no separation, which religion would be the chief religion you think? We may not all agree, actually no one would agree.

Bush still cuts back on support for the military, you do realize that part of conservatism is a social darwinism that says the individual is responsible for themselves. That goes for military as well as the rest of us.

btw i have to say that its incredibly amusing that you are not only acting like, but trying to attack conservatives the exact way liberal fascism described... its like watching you act to a T. its amusing.

[theHawk]

btw i have to say that its incredibly amusing that you are not only acting like, but trying to attack conservatives the exact way liberal fascism described... its like watching you act to a T. its amusing.

He also won't offer up any solutions of his own. All he can do is critize conservatism, as if pointing out that it isn't perfect somehow makes him right.

[DragonStryk72]

I'm still waiting for my points to get an answer, not that I expect it.

[CockySOB]

I'm still waiting for my points to get an answer, not that I expect it.

You and me both. I flat-out want midcan5 to go back to his original post and clean up the myriad of logical fallacies he/she/it put forth. As I said previously, midcan5's post should be in the encyclopedia next to the term "logical fallacy" since he/she/it manages to exhibit a great number in short order.

[midcan5]

DragonStryk72,

On Global warming we agree.

Bush - mostly agree, but I still feel he represents the negative elements of republican rule. We can debate that another time. My point was and is he is being abandoned by the very people who gave him this immense power.

evolution - again agree.

taxing the rich does not hurt job creation in my opinion and even experience. my take is we need to pay for this infrastructure and taxing those who benefit most is only fair. Taxes are a stick used to beat down opponents and if reduced too far could make us a third world nation. A society of rich and the rest poor will fail.

death - that's fair, although there is no solid proof the death penalty reduces crime or even violent crime. You skipped abortion?

Ah abortion is here, then support education and prevention. But please keep religion out of the public sphere.

You are too reasonable the questions are stereotypes in the same manner liberals are stereotyped.

[midcan5]

He also won't offer up any solutions of his own. All he can do is critize conservatism, as if pointing out that it isn't perfect somehow makes him right.

True, mea culpa but done purposely, now allow me to ask is the same not often done to liberalism - the foundation of this nation.

[midcan5]

However, for this question it's simple. Free speech. People are free to say what they want. IT doesnt matter how vuglar and crude it is. Its free speech. Free speech doesnt necessarily mean its going to be proper and not offend people.

I just find this incredibly amusing because you are the one screaming about fascism and this is a very fascist question to ask.

Hmm...think about that for a second, do you raise your children using any old language? Are there not boundaries to behavior and words.

[midcan5]

Your post contains enough false implications that it should be cited on the wikipedia entry for logical fallacy. Why not clarify each of your questions in separate posts, and be sure to include your thoughts as to why the various propositions you propose are related.

I won't hold my breath though, as I figure it was intended to be troll-baiting rhetoric from a hyper-liberal/socialist partisan hack than any real quest for information.

I explained a few or at least noted where they are coming from? Tell me which ones you need clarified if the replies above didn't already do so.

OT I personally don't like wikipedia even though it has lots of good information. I find much of it biased in some way.

[Hobbit]

Hmm...think about that for a second, do you raise your children using any old language? Are there not boundaries to behavior and words.

This is part of the illogical, downright fallacious assumption liberals like to perpetuate, namely, that if something shouldn't be done, then it should be banned by the government. No, I don't think people should swear. I also don't think people should drink, smoke, or have sex outside marriage, and I think everybody should be a Christians and attend a good church every Sunday. I also think laws mandating/forbidding those things would be reprehensible.

[mundame]

This is part of the illogical, downright fallacious assumption liberals like to perpetuate, namely, that if something shouldn't be done, then it should be banned by the government. No, I don't think people should swear. I also don't think people should drink, smoke, or have sex outside marriage, and I think everybody should be a Christians and attend a good church every Sunday. I also think laws mandating/forbidding those things would be reprehensible.


This is exactly how I feel about abortion.

It shouldn't be banned by government just because some people don't think it should be done.

And that although I wouldn't want to do it, it's not my business to promote laws forbidding other people doing what they feel is in their best interests.

[Hobbit]

This is exactly how I feel about abortion.

It shouldn't be banned by government just because some people don't think it should be done.

And that although I wouldn't want to do it, it's not my business to promote laws forbidding other people doing what they feel is in their best interests.

I see, but in the opinion of those against abortion, abortion directly interferes with another human being's basic rights. Those types of things SHOULD be banned, much like firing a gun into a crowd or driving on the wrong side of the road while drunk.

I honestly see why those in favor of abortion are in favor of it, but I consistently get the impression that they don't get why I'm against it.

[CockySOB]

I explained a few or at least noted where they are coming from? Tell me which ones you need clarified if the replies above didn't already do so.

OT I personally don't like wikipedia even though it has lots of good information. I find much of it biased in some way.

Every grouping of statements in your original post is an implied relationship, no? Go back and clarify the propositions and explain the relationship between the two. Frankly, you've got nothing but logical fallacies which you think somehow justify your implied relationships. In other words, you have nothing.

You put forth your claims without any support. As such, no one here really has any need to argue with you. I'm more than happy to engage you on any particular topic, but only if you put forth a thoughtful, substantive claim AND can support your assertion of a relationship between propositions.

[midcan5]

This is part of the illogical, downright fallacious assumption liberals like to perpetuate, namely, that if something shouldn't be done, then it should be banned by the government.

You must have a government phobia, there are lots of doctors who can help. Oh darn, I forgot we don't have healthcare, oh well you'll be fine, just take some aspirin and sleep on it.

[Hobbit]

You must have a government phobia, there are lots of doctors who can help. Oh darn, I forgot we don't have healthcare, oh well you'll be fine, just take some aspirin and sleep on it.

No, I simply have a love of freedom, and government is an enemy of freedom, yet a small amount of government is necessary to preserve freedom. It's what the founding fathers believed, and I agree with them.

You, on the other hand, have an addiction to government. You need rehab, seriously. If somebody robs you are tries to kill you or something, that's when you need government, but I don't want my taxes to go to fixing your scraped knees just so some politician can buy your vote.

[midcan5]

Every grouping of statements in your original post is an implied relationship, no? Go back and clarify the propositions and explain the relationship between the two. Frankly, you've got nothing but logical fallacies which you think somehow justify your implied relationships. In other words, you have nothing.

You put forth your claims without any support. As such, no one here really has any need to argue with you. I'm more than happy to engage you on any particular topic, but only if you put forth a thoughtful, substantive claim AND can support your assertion of a relationship between propositions.

I actually admitted they were purposeful exaggerations - give me one I can focus on and we'll go from there, otherwise keep quiet.


"The end comes when we no longer talk with ourselves. It is the end of genuine thinking and the beginning of the final loneliness." Eric Hoffer

[midcan5]

No, I simply have a love of freedom, and government is an enemy of freedom, yet a small amount of government is necessary to preserve freedom. It's what the founding fathers believed, and I agree with them.

Then you belong to the wrong ideology as freedom is a liberal thing, individual freedom is at the heart of liberal philosophy. And imagine no government? Or even a week government, look at the chaos in Iraq for an example. You are assuming me - believe me I can assume myself without your help. Get outside your box for a minute the air is clearer out here.

[CockySOB]

I actually admitted they were purposeful exaggerations - give me one I can focus on and we'll go from there, otherwise keep quiet.


"The end comes when we no longer talk with ourselves. It is the end of genuine thinking and the beginning of the final loneliness." Eric Hoffer

Sorry, Bubba, but they aren't exaggerations - they're outright false implications.

Every. Single. One.

Which means your initial post is pure and utter bullshit and unworthy of discussion. Why the rest of the crew decided to feed the troll is beyond me.

The burden is on you as the original poster to take one of your statements, clarify it and support it. I don't have to do anything here, you do. So pick one of your pairings and go to town. But the burden is YOURS!

[Said1]

Hmm...think about that for a second, do you raise your children using any old language? Are there not boundaries to behavior and words.

Swearing in front of children aside, why the emotional investment in emoticons? I've seen worse at milder mannered boards.....who cares?

[CockySOB]

Swearing in front of children aside, why the emotional investment in emoticons? I've seen worse at milder mannered boards.....who cares?

A nanny-state librull hack? :laugh2:

[avatar4321]

Hmm...think about that for a second, do you raise your children using any old language? Are there not boundaries to behavior and words.

teaching children civility and demanding that the government enforce speech are completely different topics.

[avatar4321]

This is exactly how I feel about abortion.

It shouldn't be banned by government just because some people don't think it should be done.

And that although I wouldn't want to do it, it's not my business to promote laws forbidding other people doing what they feel is in their best interests.

so laws banning swearing should be enacted and laws against killing children shouldnt.

The second someone elses life is involved that person is entitled to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

[avatar4321]

Then you belong to the wrong ideology as freedom is a liberal thing, individual freedom is at the heart of liberal philosophy. And imagine no government? Or even a week government, look at the chaos in Iraq for an example. You are assuming me - believe me I can assume myself without your help. Get outside your box for a minute the air is clearer out here.

Its at the heart of Classical liberal philosphy. Modern liberalism is nothing but socialism. The conservatives are the classical liberals. They always have been.

[CockySOB]

Its at the heart of Classical liberal philosphy. Modern liberalism is nothing but socialism. The conservatives are the classical liberals. They always have been.

Yup. Pretty much sums it up. BTW, I think you were the one who recommended "Liberla Fascism," correct? Good read. And unlike midcan5's, the implications put forth in the book are sustainable.

[avatar4321]

Yup. Pretty much sums it up. BTW, I think you were the one who recommended "Liberla Fascism," correct? Good read. And unlike midcan5's, the implications put forth in the book are sustainable.

yeah. it was a good read. Finished it today. I would have tried to make the reading easier to understand. I thought it was inciteful but i just like when things are plainer. I feel it's more condusive to educating.

But other the style i really liked the book.

[DragonStryk72]

DragonStryk72,

On Global warming we agree.

Bush - mostly agree, but I still feel he represents the negative elements of republican rule. We can debate that another time. My point was and is he is being abandoned by the very people who gave him this immense power.

Most feel that they are not in fact abandoning the republican ideals, instead that the party has abandoned them. It did not happen all at once, and many hung on for a long time, hoping to bring their party back to the beliefs they were founded on, but were either cast to the winds, or ignored entirely.

evolution - again agree.

taxing the rich does not hurt job creation in my opinion and even experience. my take is we need to pay for this infrastructure and taxing those who benefit most is only fair. Taxes are a stick used to beat down opponents and if reduced too far could make us a third world nation. A society of rich and the rest poor will fail.

Rich people own businesses, and invest large amounts of money in business, so the view of "trickle down" is to let the rich hold onto the money in order that they turn around and invest

However, if you want a truly conservative tax system look no further than the Fair Tax. It is not simply a change to the current tax code, it is built to replace it entirely. Currently, you are being taxed for several things: Earning, Saving, Investing (when you invest), Investing (when you collect a dividend, and Investing (when you sell out your shares), but under the Fair Tax, it would be changed over to a consumption tax, so that you only end up paying taxes based upon what you yourself are using.

The Fair Tax would also eliminate the IRS, simplify the whole tax process, as well as allow you to keep 100% of your paycheck. The only people who would not benefit from the Fair Tax are those who are abusing the current system.

death - that's fair, although there is no solid proof the death penalty reduces crime or even violent crime. You skipped abortion?

Ah abortion is here, then support education and prevention. But please keep religion out of the public sphere.

education and prevention are important, but cutting abstinence from that education eliminates the most powerful prevention. As well, sex screws up relationships in high school, always has.

You are too reasonable the questions are stereotypes in the same manner liberals are stereotyped.

Oh don't worry, I keep doing that. It seems to be my place on the board to be fair to all sides. I've been defending Obama (who I'll never vote for, Go Root!), Clinton, and even McCain. I don't agree with them, but see no reason to slander any of them.

the only person I've actually insulted directly would be glock, and RSR, and I was very up front with it.

"I cannot believe that the same God who gave man reason, would then forbid its use"
;

[midcan5]

Yup. Pretty much sums it up. BTW, I think you were the one who recommended "Liberla Fascism," correct? Good read. And unlike midcan5's, the implications put forth in the book are sustainable.

Damn what a circle jerk, but Goldberg's book is pure hokum. If anyone is seriously interested in understanding ideology and not lost in spin world check out the Oxford Short introductions. The one on 'fascism,' 'marxism' are excellent, I haven't read the one on 'ideology.'

http://www.oup.co.uk/general/vsi/

re Goldberg's nonsense this piece sums it up well.

http://codesmithy.wordpress.com/2008/03/04/michael-tomaskys-critique-of-liberal-fascism/

[midcan5]

Sorry, Bubba, but they aren't exaggerations - they're outright false implications.

Every. Single. One.

Which means your initial post is pure and utter bullshit and unworthy of discussion. Why the rest of the crew decided to feed the troll is beyond me.

The burden is on you as the original poster to take one of your statements, clarify it and support it. I don't have to do anything here, you do. So pick one of your pairings and go to town. But the burden is YOURS!

Since you seem incapable of formulating a question we can debate the validity of, I'll post one piece which covers taxes, a bane for all conservatives.

"* Tell the taxpayers what they are getting for their money

Civilization requires a substantial number and variety of public services, which in turn require moderate and reasonable amounts of taxes. Despite decades of conservative rhetoric, a majority of Americans are perfectly happy to pay their taxes. And yet liberals keep letting conservatives clobber them with rhetoric that makes taxes sound like a bad thing. It is time for liberals to stop losing this argument. To start with, do not talk about amounts of money ("we should spend $15 billion on health care"). Instead, talk about what the money buys ("we should provide medical care to 15 million children"). And stop letting Bush call his tax policies "tax cuts": he is not cutting those taxes; he is just postponing them. "

from

http://polaris.gseis.ucla.edu/pagre/conservatism.html

[CockySOB]

Since you seem incapable of formulating a question we can debate the validity of, I'll post one piece which covers taxes, a bane for all conservatives.

"* Tell the taxpayers what they are getting for their money


Civilization requires a substantial number and variety of public services, which in turn require moderate and reasonable amounts of taxes. Despite decades of conservative rhetoric, a majority of Americans are perfectly happy to pay their taxes. And yet liberals keep letting conservatives clobber them with rhetoric that makes taxes sound like a bad thing. It is time for liberals to stop losing this argument. To start with, do not talk about amounts of money ("we should spend $15 billion on health care"). Instead, talk about what the money buys ("we should provide medical care to 15 million children"). And stop letting Bush call his tax policies "tax cuts": he is not cutting those taxes; he is just postponing them. "

from

http://polaris.gseis.ucla.edu/pagre/conservatism.html

I fixed the little quotation for you. Until I actually followed the link, I was under the impression that you had written it. Please be more clear in the future.

So I take it your assertion is in the bold text from your post. Not a very thoughtful nor thought-provoking statement, and lacking any clear connection to the link/article you cite. I *should* ask you to clarify and put forth your own thoughts, especially if you are expecting anyone else to do the same. But if I do that, you'll just get pissy again and probably go off in a huff, not that such would be a loss IMHO.

If you are simply arguing for fiscal transparency, I'd say you'll find no argument amongst conservatives. But I have a feeling that you are really arguing that liberals should try to sell new and increased taxes to the public by showing how many people the taxes would help, rather than have the public focus on how much the taxes are costing them. If I'm right, then you're not really focusing on the real problem, and instead focusing on trying to repackage the liberal/socialist marketing materials into something that you hope the public at large will accept - a dog-and-pony show if you will.

Show some intellectual integrity and present a coherent and cogent argument next time. Feel free to use citations from other authors, but at least try to carry your own weight and not just piggy-back on other's work.

[avatar4321]

Since you seem incapable of formulating a question we can debate the validity of, I'll post one piece which covers taxes, a bane for all conservatives.

"* Tell the taxpayers what they are getting for their money

Civilization requires a substantial number and variety of public services, which in turn require moderate and reasonable amounts of taxes. Despite decades of conservative rhetoric, a majority of Americans are perfectly happy to pay their taxes. And yet liberals keep letting conservatives clobber them with rhetoric that makes taxes sound like a bad thing. It is time for liberals to stop losing this argument. To start with, do not talk about amounts of money ("we should spend $15 billion on health care"). Instead, talk about what the money buys ("we should provide medical care to 15 million children"). And stop letting Bush call his tax policies "tax cuts": he is not cutting those taxes; he is just postponing them. "

from

http://polaris.gseis.ucla.edu/pagre/conservatism.html

so basically your suggesting that you should lie to the people by misleading them on important matters of your social experimentation. The ends justify the means. how very fascist...

[CockySOB]

so basically your suggesting that you should lie to the people by misleading them on important matters of your social experimentation. The ends justify the means. how very fascist...

And that makes midcan5 a (drum roll please) Liberal Fascist!

[midcan5]

Guys, I placed a quotation mark at the start of the quote, if I was like you I would say something back like, 'pay attention,' but I won't. Taxes are a stick, they are a rhetorical device to create a negative about some person or some idea. Think of the changes in McSame over taxes, he has had to join the ideology of, 'I won't raise taxes, they will.' I don't think talking about the real use of taxes is dishonest nor can I even see how you can arrive at that conclusion. In the end you don't like the picture the thread shows of conservatives, but you have no real replies. You must be a conservative. LOL

OT

Michael Tomasky’s Critique of Liberal Fascism

Michael Tomasky has posted a review of Jonah Goldberg’s book “Liberal Fascism: The Secret History of the American Left from Mussolini to the Politics of Meaning.” I would like to publicly thank Tomasky for his efforts, since I certainly wasn’t going to read the book. Some might find such a stance close-minded, I consider it an issue of basic pragmatism. I don’t like spending my limited free time reading every bit of intellectually dishonest garbage that is put out. Jon Stewart had an interview with Jonah Goldberg on The Daily Show. I posted this comment at reddit in the wake of watching the interview. A slightly shorter version and modified version is given below.

http://codesmithy.wordpress.com/2008/03/04/michael-tomaskys-critique-of-liberal-fascism/

[CockySOB]

Guys, I placed a quotation mark at the start of the quote, if I was like you I would say something back like, 'pay attention,' but I won't. Taxes are a stick, they are a rhetorical device to create a negative about some person or some idea. Think of the changes in McSame over taxes, he has had to join the ideology of, 'I won't raise taxes, they will.' I don't think talking about the real use of taxes is dishonest nor can I even see how you can arrive at that conclusion. In the end you don't like the picture the thread shows of conservatives, but you have no real replies. You must be a conservative. LOL

More dumbfuckery from midcan5. Perhaps some day he/she/it (which is it BTW?) will grow up, get a clue, and engage in a REAL discussion. But I'm not holding my breath.



OT

Michael Tomasky’s Critique of Liberal Fascism

Michael Tomasky has posted a review of Jonah Goldberg’s book “Liberal Fascism: The Secret History of the American Left from Mussolini to the Politics of Meaning.” I would like to publicly thank Tomasky for his efforts, since I certainly wasn’t going to read the book. Some might find such a stance close-minded, I consider it an issue of basic pragmatism. I don’t like spending my limited free time reading every bit of intellectually dishonest garbage that is put out. Jon Stewart had an interview with Jonah Goldberg on The Daily Show. I posted this comment at reddit in the wake of watching the interview. A slightly shorter version and modified version is given below.

http://codesmithy.wordpress.com/2008/03/04/michael-tomaskys-critique-of-liberal-fascism/

*yawn* Why am I not surprised that you are more interested in shifting the topic rather than actually engage? Typical partisan hack behavior makes you... well... a typical partisan hack.

[midcan5]

More dumbfuckery from midcan5. Perhaps some day he/she/it (which is it BTW?) will grow up, get a clue, and engage in a REAL discussion. But I'm not holding my breath.

And even more.

Conservative memes

A little dated because of last election but the belief part still holds true. A few names can be swapped, Elizabeth can be swapped for Teresa. lol Now Michelle. LOL

*********************

This is a list of concepts and ideas that arrange the way a person thinks about a number of topics. The list includes items that are positive and negative and often it is the degree to which something is believed or used that determines the way they understand any of the issues that face us as Americans. They serve as categories that allow easy classification without thinking or reasoning.

You believe taxes are bad
You believe a government that taxes is bad
You believe Unions are bad
You believe giving tax cuts to those who ship jobs overseas is good
You believe people on welfare are cheaters
You believe welfare is bad
You believe CEOs making 100 million are getting paid fairly
You believe minimum wage is enough
You believe millions of dollars of compensation for the rich is good
You believe helping the poor is bad
You believe government contracts for the rich are good
You believe anyone without a job isn't looking
You support small business but not the Small Business Administration
You support small business but give dividend relief to the large corporations
You support small business but tax breaks go to the top 1%
You support small business but you shop at Walmart
You support small business but you buy foreign products
Government is a bad thing but the military industrial complex is a good thing
Regulation is bad but bailing out failed corporations is good
You talk Jesus and the power of religion but vote more corporate power
You talk family values but vote more corporate power
You talk less government but support more corporate power
You talk honesty but support more corporate power
You believe in a domino theory of actions
You believe in the slippery slope of morals
You believe the liberalism that founded American democracy is now wrong
You protest against so called cultural elitism not corporate greed
You protest against abortion not lack of education and funding
You protest against evolution not the inequality of wages
You protest against atheism not poor living conditions
You have to believe a few cells is a person but bombing living people is fine
A few cells is a person but executions are fine
A few cells is a person but executing retarded people is fine
A few cells is a person but supporting medical research that could save lives is bad
A few cells is a person but the child that dies every minute doesn't matter
A few cells is a person but food supports are bad
A few cells is a person but sex education about it is bad
A few cells is a person but condoms are bad
We invaded Iraq because it was a threat to us
We invaded Iraq because they didn't follow UN resolution 1441
We invaded Iraq because they didn't allow UN inspectors
We invaded Iraq because Saddam was a bad man
We invaded Iraq to free the Iraqi people
We invaded Iraq to form a democracy in the middle east
You believe education is good but don't support it
You believe education is a good thing but we don't need public schools
You believe education is a good thing so long as they teach your values and religion
You say 'leave no child behind' but make sure the rich get further ahead
You impose 'No Child' laws but let the states pay for it
You say 'compassionate' but cut back support for food for children
You say 'compassionate' but withdraw aid for after school programs
You say 'compassionate' but weaken international laws that protect child
You believe it's ok to be armed but one ounce of pot is a jail sentence
You believe it's ok to be armed but medical marijuana is bad
You believe it's ok to be armed but song lyrics should be banned
You believe it's ok to be armed and those who aren't are out of touch with reality
You believe it is ok that women do not have the same rights as men
You believe women should be quiet and in the background
You believe women are ok but you hate Hilary
You believe women are ok but you hate Teresa
You support women but close the Office for Women's Initiatives
You support women but remove medically accurate information from the web
You believe tariffs are bad unless you are a corporate farmer
You believe tariffs are bad unless it helps win votes
You believe free trade is fine so long as it doesn't affect your corporate contributors
You believe affirmative action is bad but connections are ok
You believe global warming is myth
You believe pollution is not an issue
You believe the environment will take care of itself
You believe we must roll back the New Deal
You believe interfering in the lives of gays is proper
You believe interfering in the lives who choose to die is proper
You believe government is bad unless it enforces your values
You believe government is bad unless it is bails out corporations
You believe government is bad unless it builds more prisons
You believe creating laws that impose on personal freedoms is good
You believe that what another citizen is doing in their bedroom is your concern
You believe if it is not something you believe in then it is wrong
You believe you support the military
You believe you support the military while you cut back their benefits
You believe you support the military while you close VA hospitals
You believe you support the military while you send them to war with no plan
You believe you support the military while your candidates never served
You believe creationism is good science
You believe Evolution is just a theory
You believe media is liberal
You believe Limbaugh is right on
You believe Hannity is right on
You believe Coulter is right on
You believe Savage is right on
You believe Ingram is right on
You believe the WSJ editorial page is right on
You believe Fox is fair and balanced
You believe media is liberal
You believe Bush is a common man even though he has never worked nor served
You believe Cheney is a common man even with a 55 million paycheck
You believe the republicans represent the common man while the corporations support them
You believe liberal or elitist is bad
You believe some people are bad because of the coffee they drink
You believe some people are bad because they read
You believe some people are bad because they have traveled
You believe people are bad because of the car they drive
You believe people are bad because they honor dissent in America
You believe it is not honesty and hard work but culture that defines us
You believe it is not honesty and hard work but religion that defines us
You believe it is not honesty and hard work but political affiliation that defines us
You must believe as you believe in nothing else that your opponent's ideas are bad
You must never concede that your opponent has a valid point you must repeat that
You must finally raise your partisanship to an ideology that you believe as a child believes
You believe you do not reason
You believe you do not think
You believe

The scariest thing about the new right is the power it has on many. They do not question the assumptions it makes, they start at the top of this list and they find there truths that should not be questioned. An irony of this is the pieces by themselves are not always negative it is rather the combination of all working together that are a threat to individual and economic freedoms.

[CockySOB]

Talk about stereotyping gone wild - sheesh! This is the logical fallacy of composition. While you might find some individuals who embody most, or perhaps all, of the listed characteristics, without any logical proof or viable justification for the claim that all conservatives share the same claims.

I would recommend that if you are insistent on arguing with me, that you educate yourself, or ask someone to help educate you, on the basics of debate, logic and reason. Why? Because any argument you put forth based on erroneous or misleading facts, and not properly supported by valid propositional logic is, by default, wrong (false).

Try thinking for yourself for a change. Improving your critical thinking skills will likely improve your lot in life.

(I feel like I'm talking to Truthdoesntmatter.....)

[DragonStryk72]

And even more.

This is a list of concepts and ideas that arrange the way a person thinks about a number of topics. The list includes items that are positive and negative and often it is the degree to which something is believed or used that determines the way they understand any of the issues that face us as Americans. They serve as categories that allow easy classification without thinking or reasoning.

You believe taxes are bad
You believe a government that taxes is bad

I find it very sad that you, again, have decided to shove me into a stereotype. Have I once referred to in a way as to convey the idea that I believe that you are a stereotypical liberal?

As to taxes, more taxes solves absolutely nothing, as the problem is the way the government spends its money.

You believe Unions are bad

I do not believe unions are bad, but do paper company worker really need $40 an hour? Do baseball and football players really need $8,000,000 a year just to 'get by'? Unions are important, in that they are a way for the people to take care of problems in the workplace. however, it has far surpassed that, instead becoming a means for the people to vote themselves more money, and in turn, raise the costs of living for themselves, and everyone else.

You believe giving tax cuts to those who ship jobs overseas is good

And your solution is to tax them more heavily? the problem with that plan is that, when you raise those taxes, which are now the 2nd highest in the world, here is what will happen: they will ship the company overseas, and we lose all of those tax dollars for good.

You believe people on welfare are cheaters
You believe welfare is bad

Those who go on welfare in purely temporary sense, are exactly the sort of people that the program was designed for. I have no issue with helping a woman out whose husband ditched out, and needs the money while she takes some courses to get a better life for herself and her child.

the sad truth, however, is that the majority of people become wholly dependent upon government assistance, because it is much easier to fall back on that ready crutch, than it is to do the work need to walk on their own. We have an entire culture of welfare, where is that a good thing in your opinion?

You believe CEOs making 100 million are getting paid fairly

They aren't being paid fairly, but honestly, that's not on the government to fix. You want to stop them? Well, stop buying their product, it'll correct itself, but nothing that the government can do will halt that.

You believe minimum wage is enough

No, I believe raising the minimum wage is completely counterproductive, in that it will lead to an increase in the cost of living for any area where it happens. min wage goes up, pay goes up across the board, since so many companies are hiring with competitive wages, and that means overhead, and cost goes up. Maybe if we would cut government spending

You believe millions of dollars of compensation for the rich is good

How's that rebate working out for you? Oh yeah, that would mean admitting that conservatives actually try to give compensation to the poor as well.

You believe helping the poor is bad


Where in holy hell did you get that one? Do conservatives believe it is a bad thing when the government steps in to help the poor? Most certainly, and our track record of that will prove it is.

You believe government contracts for the rich are good

As opposed to whom precisely? Any company big enough to do a job for the government is obviously going to be a successful one. This would be much the same as saying, "baseball contracts for the best athletes are good".

You believe anyone without a job isn't looking

A job is easy to get, the right one is difficult, but sitting around not getting any form of work just to go after the dream is daft. I am working on my writing, but I still hold down a regular job to pay the bills.

Should you have difficulty getting one, two word answer: Labor Ready. I've worked there before, and I've hung off the back of a garbage truck, but it was a paycheck.

You support small business but not the Small Business Administration
You support small business but give dividend relief to the large corporations
You support small business but tax breaks go to the top 1%
You support small business but you shop at Walmart
You support small business but you buy foreign products

Most people haven't even heard of the SBA, so I'll skip that one. You mean when we keep trying to hand back corps a portion of the money we already took from them? Yeah, see my comment about companies going overseas.

Everyone shops at Wal-Mart, hence why everyone knows what it is. If you don't, it is because you are making a conscious effort to not shop at Wal-Mart.

And again, what is government going to do about this? It can't force the people to buy only american made products.

Government is a bad thing but the military industrial complex is a good thing

okay, the military is one of the few things going right now that the government actually should have a hand in. It screws up most of everything else it puts it nose in. The last thing the federal government did really well in our own country was enforcing civil liberties, which hasn't been needed in a couple of decades.

Regulation is bad but bailing out failed corporations is good

Actually, Regulation is bad, and corporate welfare is bad as well. You may wish to ask Mrs. Clinton if she would want corporate welfare to be there if Wal-Mart ever hit the wall? Businesses need to be allowed to fail, in order for the ecomony to have true growth, just as some tree branches fall off in order for the rest of the tree to grow.

Regulation only does one thing: It drives up the cost of services, since with regulation, one only has a limited number of selections as to the provider.

You talk Jesus and the power of religion but vote more corporate power
You talk family values but vote more corporate power
You talk less government but support more corporate power
You talk honesty but support more corporate power

Again, we come to a misunderstanding about conservatism. Remember, Bush and his cronies are neither conservatives, nor are they republicans.

And by the way, what of the liberals who have voted in favor of more corporate power? Oh yeah that right, they have the majority currently, so they would have to approve in order for the bill to even make it to the president's desk.

You believe in a domino theory of actions

Um, yeah.... this one doesn't even make sense in any way, so I can't precisely argue with it. If I punch you in the face, would your next action more likely be defending yourself, or to start reading a book?

You believe in the slippery slope of morals

Um, yeah, it's not like any of the great evils in this world happen overnight. Contrary to what they showed in Episode III, people do not simply go from heroes, to killing children wantonly in the next scene. Is the term horribly overused by both sides.

You believe the liberalism that founded American democracy is now wrong

Um.... it didn't. We didn't even have parties at that point, but if you look at the way the government was set up, it was a definitive conservative system, with representative government in the small amounts that were still workable. Heck we didn't even have income taxes or any of that nonsense then.

You protest against so called cultural elitism not corporate greed

That's because there is a difference between the two. People have a right to be greedy, but they do not have a right to exclusion of others due to class or race.

You protest against abortion not lack of education and funding

Why would we fund abortion? That makes no sense if a person is against it in the first place. Second, it is not even a federal issue, it is a states' rights issue

You protest against evolution not the inequality of wages
You protest against atheism not poor living conditions
You have to believe a few cells is a person but bombing living people is fine
A few cells is a person but executions are fine
A few cells is a person but executing retarded people is fine
A few cells is a person but supporting medical research that could save lives is bad
A few cells is a person but the child that dies every minute doesn't matter
A few cells is a person but food supports are bad
A few cells is a person but sex education about it is bad
A few cells is a person but condoms are bad

I am getting really tired of being put at a bible-thumper. These are religious points, not conservative points. They have no place here.

We invaded Iraq because it was a threat to us
We invaded Iraq because they didn't follow UN resolution 1441
We invaded Iraq because they didn't allow UN inspectors
We invaded Iraq because Saddam was a bad man
We invaded Iraq to free the Iraqi people
We invaded Iraq to form a democracy in the middle east

Actually, a number of conservatives are leaving the republican party over this very issue, so obviously, it is not a conservative issue. I think you are going after Bush's group of buttholes, but you are hitting a huge number of innocents at the same time.

You believe education is good but don't support it
You believe education is a good thing but we don't need public schools
You believe education is a good thing so long as they teach your values and religion

Um, yeah, okay, I want to go look at the federal eudcation budget since No Child Left Behind was established. You'll notice that the amount goes up every single year, even as results become lower and lower. So obviously, money isn't the answer. Maybe it's getting the government out of education, and the allowing the teachers to teach?

Further, improving education is hampered by the fact that you can't fire a bad teacher. A teacher who performs poorly is protected by the teacher's union, meaning that to fire that teacher, you have to be willing to deal with a walk-out.

Okay, I need clarification of values and religion, because last I checked, religion hasn't been on a public school curriculum in about 20 years.

You say 'leave no child behind' but make sure the rich get further ahead
You impose 'No Child' laws but let the states pay for it

Again, conservatives do not believe in the NCLB, because it establish federal control of a state issue. See, that's conservative governing. DC is not equipped to teach a child leaving in Wyoming, however well meaning.

You may also wish to look at who thought up the NCLB, as it was liberals, not conservatives, who created it originally.

You say 'compassionate' but cut back support for food for children
You say 'compassionate' but withdraw aid for after school programs
You say 'compassionate' but weaken international laws that protect child

Again, you seem to be confusing points. First, what international laws have we weakened? Second, the 'cut backs' that conservatives put in are because we are spending too much, and because their opposition won't let go of the "temporary" programs that they want to make permanent.

The money has to come from somewhere.

You believe it's ok to be armed but one ounce of pot is a jail sentence
You believe it's ok to be armed but medical marijuana is bad
You believe it's ok to be armed but song lyrics should be banned
You believe it's ok to be armed and those who aren't are out of touch with reality

I am not armed, but I do believe in the right bear arms, since obviously, you're speaking only of guns, since otherwise, if you own a baseball bat or knives, you would count as armed.

Ever notice that almost every crime involving a gun was performed with either an illegal firearm, or by irresponsiblity of a gun owner. Yet, in order to generate votes, you get told repeatedly that taking the guns away will make you safer. It won't, since the people most likely to murder you won't care about the gun laws, since they pro-murder.

You believe it is ok that women do not have the same rights as men
You believe women should be quiet and in the background
You believe women are ok but you hate Hilary
You believe women are ok but you hate Teresa
You support women but close the Office for Women's Initiatives
You support women but remove medically accurate information from the web


Site me ONE, even ONE example of women not having the same rights as men in this country.

When has anyone said they should be quiet and in the background? Stop with the lumping, I mean, christ, just because someone's got a consrvative party nod doesn't mean they are a backbirth. My sister is a kickboxer, and I fear for the manhood of any guy who tries to put her anywhere she doesn't want to be.

Hilary made her own bed, she claim 35 years of experience, but then blithely steps aside from any decision of her husband's that she did not like, even though she supported it publically. Yeah that's I want in a leader.

You believe tariffs are bad unless you are a corporate farmer
You believe tariffs are bad unless it helps win votes

Oh please, both sides have used this one. You can;t honestly believe that liberals aren't just as willing to cross moral/ethical lines to win votes, do you?

You believe free trade is fine so long as it doesn't affect your corporate
contributors

Um yeah, because that's my money, as opposed to other peoples' money. Wherein is this hard to figure out? Do you think that Hilary would give up all her stock in Wal-Mart without a fight? Or go balls out to help Enron recover, reconstitute and come back as a real business entity? Of course not, no one would.

You believe affirmative action is bad but connections are ok

True, because connections are completely race neutral.

Affirmative Action has run its course, it is not a permanent institution, and it has outlived it's usefulness, plain and simple. We would be served by simply funneling the money into the naitonal debt, lowering interest rates, and the cost of liviing all around

You believe global warming is myth
You believe pollution is not an issue
You believe the environment will take care of itself

This is not true in most cases. Again with the prejudicial judgements. Not good for a liberal. Global warming is happening, but, as I said before, and you decide to mentally 'skip' over, the effects have been blown out of proportion by the people doing the research in order to get more a reaction form the public.

Pollution is bad, but letting the country fall apart so that we can have eco-friendly everything RIGHT NOW, is not adviseable. it needs to be absorbed at a steady pace that we can work around.

You believe we must roll back the New Deal

Okay, which part of it? Or do you only repeat the sound bites?

You believe interfering in the lives of gays is proper
You believe interfering in the lives who choose to die is proper

Again, not a conservative argument. Gay Marriage is a states rights issue, Right to Die is a states right issue. By conservative stance, the federal government has no right to interfere.

You believe government is bad unless it enforces your values
You believe government is bad unless it is bails out corporations
You believe government is bad unless it builds more prisons

Much the same as you don't like the government that doesn't support what you want it to support.

Again, corporate welfare=bad.

Um, as opposed to letting criminals go because we can no longer house them? Uh huh, yup I believe that more prisons would be a good thing.

You believe creating laws that impose on personal freedoms is good
You believe that what another citizen is doing in their bedroom is your concern

Again, not a conservative thing, a bible-thumper thing, but not conservatives.

You believe if it is not something you believe in then it is wrong

this sentence is simply a jackass one.

You believe you support the military
You believe you support the military while you cut back their benefits
You believe you support the military while you close VA hospitals
You believe you support the military while you send them to war with no plan
You believe you support the military while your candidates never served

Okay, here we go. I am a vet, and trust me, there are benefits enough, both while I was in, and in the VA. Yes, there is paperwork, and it is not the same care you would get through a private hospital, but then, it's free, so you really have no cause for complaint there.

And Bush has taken shit from his own people on this one. Separate bush from the conservatives, since he isn't one.

Um, McCain, POW, served in the military during Vietnam?

You believe creationism is good science
You believe Evolution is just a theory

Okay, again, stop lumping all conservatives in with bible-thumpers. It really is not only insulting, but degrading.

You believe media is liberal

Well, actually, really that's just political bs, and both sides use it pretty much equally.

You believe Limbaugh is right on
You believe Hannity is right on
You believe Coulter is right on
You believe Savage is right on
You believe Ingram is right on

Actually, you'll find most, aside from RSR, do not readily agree with any of them, nor do I. Nor do I agree with Michael Moore.

You believe the WSJ editorial page is right on
You believe Fox is fair and balanced

As fair and balanced as the liberal media is. Both sides are screwing it up, but again with the lumping.

You believe media is liberal
You believe Bush is a common man even though he has never worked nor served

Um, no, I don't think that was ever anyone's thought. I believe they thought that he was a better choice than Gore.

You believe Cheney is a common man even with a 55 million paycheck

Again, where are you getting this from?

You believe the republicans represent the common man while the corporations support them

Well, by that summation, our government doesn't serve us at all, because that corp support gets extended to libs as well.

You believe liberal or elitist is bad


You believe some people are bad because of the coffee they drink
You believe some people are bad because they read
You believe some people are bad because they have traveled

Oh yeah, put up your proof of this one. this is just mindless conjecture.

You believe people are bad because of the car they drive
You believe people are bad because they honor dissent in America

Again, to which point does this refer, because both sides have slapped the other becuase of both of these

You believe it is not honesty and hard work but culture that defines us
You believe it is not honesty and hard work but religion that defines us
You believe it is not honesty and hard work but political affiliation that defines us

Um, nope, can't say that I do. Most people don't, even amongst us "evil" conservatives. And yes, that's the way you're coming across.

You must believe as you believe in nothing else that your opponent's ideas are bad
You must never concede that your opponent has a valid point you must repeat that

You're again confusing conservative, with the term "arrogant bastard" this time, and once more, both sides do it, and with vigor.

You must finally raise your partisanship to an ideology that you believe as a child believes
You believe you do not reason
You believe you do not think
You believe


None of this even makes sense enough to argue about. Both sides are responsible for the partisanship, since it takes two people to have an arugement.

The scariest thing about the new right is the power it has on many. They do not question the assumptions it makes, they start at the top of this list and they find there truths that should not be questioned. An irony of this is the pieces by themselves are not always negative it is rather the combination of all working together that are a threat to individual and economic freedoms.

;

[theHawk]

You believe taxes are bad Wrong. Taxes are need for national defense,prisons, and running the government.
You believe a government that taxes is bad
You believe Unions are bad Somewhat. They can be good, but also drive companies out of business.
You believe giving tax cuts to those who ship jobs overseas is good 100% wrong
You believe people on welfare are cheaters Somewhat. Many on welfare are just milking the system when they could easily get a job.
You believe welfare is bad Yes. People need to learn responsibility for themselves. Not accept slavery to the government.
You believe CEOs making 100 million are getting paid fairly
You believe minimum wage is enough Yes. If you don't think your job pays enough, find another.
You believe millions of dollars of compensation for the rich is good
You believe helping the poor is bad Wrong. Helping the poor should be the job of private charity, not taxpayers.
You believe government contracts for the rich are good Don't even know what this means.
You believe anyone without a job isn't looking Most people without a job are just unwilling to accept one thats 'beneath' them.

You support small business but not the Small Business Administration
You support small business but give dividend relief to the large corporations
You support small business but tax breaks go to the top 1%
Tax breaks should go to all businesses.

You support small business but you shop at Walmart Wrong. I never shop at Walmart. Most of it is made in China crap.
You support small business but you buy foreign products Yes, I buy foreign products. I don't see what that has to do with small business though.
Government is a bad thing but the military industrial complex is a good thing The military is one of the principle reasons to have a government.
Regulation is bad but bailing out failed corporations is good Wrong. 100% wrong.
You talk Jesus and the power of religion but vote more corporate power
You talk family values but vote more corporate power
You talk less government but support more corporate power
You talk honesty but support more corporate power
I wasn't aware "corporate power" was anti-anything above.

You believe in a domino theory of actions Huh?
You believe in the slippery slope of morals Yes, look at where morality is today in this country. And its all due to liberalism.
You believe the liberalism that founded American democracy is now wrong The "liberalism" that founded American democracy is today's conservatism. Todays liberalism is based on secularism, moral relativism, and socialist policies.

You protest against so called cultural elitism not corporate greed Are you suggesting that liberal elites haven't made their millions by 'corporate greed'?
You protest against abortion not lack of education and funding Two different issues, completely unrelated.
You protest against evolution not the inequality of wages Aren't people allowed to evolve from being poor to rich?
You protest against atheism not poor living conditions I don't see what there is to 'protest' about either.


You have to believe a few cells is a person but bombing living people is fine Yes, a fetus is an innocent life. We usually bomb people guilty of something.
A few cells is a person but executions are fine Again, a guilty person who made a choice...
A few cells is a person but executing retarded people is fine WTF are you talking about?
A few cells is a person but supporting medical research that could save lives is bad Rediculous. Adult stem cell research as yeilded far better results than embryonic.
A few cells is a person but the child that dies every minute doesn't matter Where the hell are you getting this from?
A few cells is a person but food supports are bad
A few cells is a person but sex education about it is bad
A few cells is a person but condoms are bad
Again, totally unrelated topics.

We invaded Iraq because it was a threat to us
We invaded Iraq because they didn't follow UN resolution 1441
We invaded Iraq because they didn't allow UN inspectors
We invaded Iraq because Saddam was a bad man
We invaded Iraq to free the Iraqi people
We invaded Iraq to form a democracy in the middle east
Yes, those were the goals.

You believe education is good but don't support it We support good education, not state run, and not run by liberals.
You believe education is a good thing but we don't need public schools Yup.
You believe education is a good thing so long as they teach your values and religion Wrong. As long as they teach math, English, science...
You say 'leave no child behind' but make sure the rich get further ahead What do the rich have to do with the standards of testing children?
You impose 'No Child' laws but let the states pay for it Federal government should not be in the business of educating anyone.
You say 'compassionate' but cut back support for food for children
You say 'compassionate' but withdraw aid for after school programs
You say 'compassionate' but weaken international laws that protect child
How so? More rediculous presumptions



You believe it's ok to be armed but one ounce of pot is a jail sentence Wrong. I could care less about pot smokers, they take up too much room in prisons where pedophiles need to be.
You believe it's ok to be armed but medical marijuana is bad Wrong. I believe medical marijuana could be very helpfull to alot of sick people.
You believe it's ok to be armed but song lyrics should be banned Wrong. No idea what you're talking about.
You believe it's ok to be armed and those who aren't are out of touch with reality WTF?



You believe it is ok that women do not have the same rights as men I wasn't aware women don't have the same immunities as men. Elaborate please.
You believe women should be quiet and in the background ???
You believe women are ok but you hate Hilary Because she is a liberal...
You believe women are ok but you hate Teresa Hinez? For the same reason!
You support women but close the Office for Women's Initiatives Don't even know what that is. Nor do I care.
You support women but remove medically accurate information from the web Now we are removing stuff from the web? Are you fucking kidding me?



You believe tariffs are bad unless you are a corporate farmer I believe tarriffs are someone we should bring back in a big way.
You believe tariffs are bad unless it helps win votes Wrong again. I support tarriffs big time.
You believe free trade is fine so long as it doesn't affect your corporate contributors I don't have any 'corporate contributors'
You believe affirmative action is bad but connections are ok AA is racist and unconstitutional.


You believe global warming is myth Wrong. The globe has been warming for the last 15,000 years.
You believe pollution is not an issue Wrong. We need to take care of God's green Earth.
You believe the environment will take care of itself Wrong....


You believe we must roll back the New DealYes...its a little out of date...
You believe interfering in the lives of gays is proper Wrong. I could give a shit about a gay person's life.
You believe interfering in the lives who choose to die is proper Wrong again...
You believe government is bad unless it enforces your values Wrong. Its supposed to enforce the values of society, so long as its constitutional.


You believe government is bad unless it is bails out corporations Wrong. Government is bad when it does bail out corporations.
You believe government is bad unless it builds more prisons Yes, thats one of the few things a government is supposed to do. You'd rather just free criminals?
You believe creating laws that impose on personal freedoms is good Quite the opposite...
You believe that what another citizen is doing in their bedroom is your concern Not really, unless is murdering someone or raping someone....
You believe if it is not something you believe in then it is wrong I could care less about anyone else's beliefs.


You believe you support the military Yea I do. I even work for it!
You believe you support the military while you cut back their benefits
You believe you support the military while you close VA hospitals
You believe you support the military while you send them to war with no plan
You believe you support the military while your candidates never served
Wrong on all counts again! You're not doing so well!

You believe creationism is good science No, its a belief not a 'science'.
You believe Evolution is just a theory It is....You believe media is liberal It is....
You believe Limbaugh is right on Yup. He nails libs on a regular basis.
You believe Hannity is right on Yup
You believe Coulter is right on Yup
You believe Savage is right on Never listened to him
You believe Ingram is right on Most of the time.
You believe the WSJ editorial page is right on Never read it.
You believe Fox is fair and balanced Much more so than CNN, MSNBC, ABC, and CBS.


You believe Bush is a common man even though he has never worked nor served I don't believe he is a common man, but he has worked, and did serve....
You believe Cheney is a common man even with a 55 million paycheck Again...when did we ever say he was a common man?
You believe the republicans represent the common man while the corporations support them Yup

You believe liberal or elitist is bad Yup
You believe some people are bad because of the coffee they drink We believe they are bad for their socialist ideas dumbass.
You believe some people are bad because they read
You believe some people are bad because they have traveled
You believe people are bad because of the car they drive
Wow, really pulling at straws now eh?
You believe people are bad because they honor dissent in America
'Honoring dissent' is just a code word for liberals to insult and slam their own country.
You believe it is not honesty and hard work but culture that defines us
You believe it is not honesty and hard work but religion that defines us
I believe its all of the above?
You believe it is not honesty and hard work but political affiliation that defines us
Again, two completely unrelated issues...
You must believe as you believe in nothing else that your opponent's ideas are bad Yes, I believe liberal ideas are bad....thats why I am a conservative...
You must never concede that your opponent has a valid point you must repeat that I've never heard of a liberal bring up a valid point...


Its not too much of a surprise you're wrong on most of your assumptions...

[midcan5]

I'm impressed a few people took a minute to answer, when I have a minute I'll see if an real counter is offered. And remember if you throw stones expect them thrown back.