Nutter defiantly signs five gun laws

[stephanie]

Council's measures appear to fly in the face of state law and legal precedent. The NRA says it will sue.
By Jeff Shields

Inquirer Staff Writer

Mayor Nutter likened himself and City Council members yesterday to the band of rebels who formed this country as he signed five new gun-control laws that defy the state legislature and legal precedent.
"Almost 232 years ago, a group of concerned Americans took matters in their own hands and did what they needed to do by declaring that the time had come for a change," Nutter said as he signed the bills in front of a table of confiscated weapons outside the police evidence room in City Hall.

"We are going to make ourselves independent of the violence that's been taking place in this city for far too long," he said.

The five laws - called everything from unconstitutional to criminal by critics - do the following:

Limit handgun purchases to one a month.

Require lost or stolen firearms to be reported to police within 24 hours.

Prohibit individuals under protection-from-abuse orders from possessing guns if ordered by the court.

Allow removal of firearms from "persons posing a risk of imminent personal injury" to themselves or others.

Outlaw the possession and sale of certain assault weapons.

Nutter said he would begin to enforce the laws immediately, with the exception of the one-gun-a-month requirement, which takes effect in six months.

read the rest..
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/home_top_stories/20080411_Nutter_defiantly_signs_five_gun_laws.html

[avatar4321]

Require lost or stolen firearms to be reported to police within 24 hours.


This is the only one that makes any sort of common sense. The others are ridiculous.

[Gaffer]

Nutter...he's amply named.

[Yurt]

=stephanie;229565]Council's measures appear to fly in the face of state law and legal precedent. The NRA says it will sue.
By Jeff Shields

Inquirer Staff Writer

Mayor Nutter likened himself and City Council members yesterday to the band of rebels who formed this country

that alone is telling....


as he signed five new gun-control laws that defy the state legislature and legal precedent.
"Almost 232 years ago, a group of concerned Americans took matters in their own hands and did what they needed to do by declaring that the time had come for a change," Nutter said as he signed the bills in front of a table of confiscated weapons outside the police evidence room in City Hall.

"We are going to make ourselves independent of the violence that's been taking place in this city for far too long," he said.


all of his "change" will do nothing to stop the violence. what this idiot fails to realize is that 232 years ago, you could openly wear a gun in most places....232 years ago the framers would never have dreamed of the state taking away/limiting your right to gun ownership.



The five laws - called everything from unconstitutional to criminal by critics - do the following:

Limit handgun purchases to one a month.

Require lost or stolen firearms to be reported to police within 24 hours.

Prohibit individuals under protection-from-abuse orders from possessing guns if ordered by the court.

Allow removal of firearms from "persons posing a risk of imminent personal injury" to themselves or others.

Outlaw the possession and sale of certain assault weapons.

as Avi noted, the requirement of stolen firearms to be reported is maybe the only thing that MIGHT decrease violence...i believe number 5 is in place for felons already....abuse orders are often temporary and done without the person to whom the order is against present....


Nutter said he would begin to enforce the laws immediately, with the exception of the one-gun-a-month requirement, which takes effect in six months.

....not that this would help, but laughable that he is willing to wait six months for this one....


caveat:

i do have issues with the gun/arms control argument. the argument is often made that guns are sacrosanct because the second amendment mentions "arms." why are those opposed to gun control -- ok with controls on missile launchers?

[theHawk]

caveat:

i do have issues with the gun/arms control argument. the argument is often made that guns are sacrosanct because the second amendment mentions "arms." why are those opposed to gun control -- ok with controls on missile launchers?

How is a missle going to help anyone defend their home against a home invasion?

[Yurt]

How is a missle going to help anyone defend their home against a home invasion?

are you joking?

[avatar4321]

How is a missle going to help anyone defend their home against a home invasion?

I can think of some creative ways :boom2::dev2:

[emmett]

This time I have decided to not wait until post # 200 and sonmething to go ahead and end this thread.......

Nutter is a moron.


OK Gun Control advocates...here we go.


You are at home on a quiet evening in your gun controlled city watching TV in you r bed. All of a sudden a drug crazed idiot bolts into your room wieldng something in his hand that could crack your skull. Hell, maybe he has an unregistered gun. (Criminals don't register their guns you know. You do know this right?) You spring from the bed and barely escape him as he positions himself to do you bodily harm. He is scared, maybe crazy (of course you do not have time to detrmine if he ewas abused as a child and has hangups or anything), maybe he is already under the influence of a mind altering drug he purchased from the proceeds of his last home invasion. (But then you don't have the time to determine that either). You barely escape your room and realize he is chasing you down the hall. Where will you go? Oh my god! He is on you. You tear free. You run toward the kitchen to hunt for your portable phone so you can call 911. If you could just call 911 everything would be OK, right? You stumble as a weight from behind causes you to fall forward. You realize you have been hit. Stabbed, maybe shot. The pain is immense. You fall forward under the table. You curl up into a fetal position. Maybe he will feel sorry for you and not finish you off. You beg for your life. You realize this effort is futile as you look into the eyes of this killer. He is going to kill you.

Now, what part of self defense do you people not understand? Are you so shallow that you believe that ANY gun law is going to stop this from happening. Are you so stupid that you think criminals are going to surrender their guns. Do you not think that there are enough guns already present in this world to arm every criminal with one purchased on the black market.

Version two of this story. It happens at my house............
It is a quiet evening and I am enjoying a TV show in my bed when a crazed lunatic bolts through my bedroom door. It is approx 30 feet from my bed to the door. I can draw my pistol from the top drawer of my nightstand and fire it accurately in 3 seconds. I have practiced it and thank the Lord Jesus Christ that I have. I can even accurately wound this intruder without killing him I believe and will if possible but I give almost no thought to that as I fire accurately a shot into the worthless bastard. He has just recieved a 240 grain 44 magnum wadcutter somewhere into his frame and believe you me brother he is incapacitated. I now have plenty of time to hunt for my phone so I can call 911 and get this chump the medical attention he requires and have him removed from my room. I offer him a glass of water and some friendly conversation. I can now find out about "why" he has done this thing. If he has hang ups, we can discuss them while we await the meatwagon. If he was molested as a child he can tell me about it. If he bleeds to death, tough shit.

[Gaffer]

even in gun controlled cities, when seconds count the police are only minutes away.

[Joe Steel]

Council's measures appear to fly in the face of state law and legal precedent. The NRA says it will sue.
By Jeff Shields

Inquirer Staff Writer

Mayor Nutter likened himself and City Council members yesterday to the band of rebels who formed this country as he signed five new gun-control laws that defy the state legislature and legal precedent.

It's about time the citizens took-back their country from the NRA.

[Sitarro]

It's about time the citizens took-back their country from the NRA.

You needed to edit a simpleton 12 word post?:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:
Pathetic

[Joe Steel]

You needed to edit a simpleton 12 word post?:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:
Pathetic

Yes. In the original version, I had a four syllable word. Posting it would be assuming too much of you.

[My Winter Storm]

It's about time the citizens took-back their country from the NRA.

The NRA has nothing to do with this. Just because a group of people happen to support the right to own firearms does not mean they must take responsibility of everyone who chooses to purchase one.
If you choose to buy a gun, it is up to you to take care of it, and ensure it does not fall into the wrong hands. The NRA have nothing to do with it, I don't understand why you are so preoccupied with them.

[Joe Steel]

The NRA has nothing to do with this. Just because a group of people happen to support the right to own firearms does not mean they must take responsibility of everyone who chooses to purchase one.

If you choose to buy a gun, it is up to you to take care of it, and ensure it does not fall into the wrong hands. The NRA have nothing to do with it, I don't understand why you are so preoccupied with them.

The NRA is a lobby for the gun industry. Its primary purpose is increasing gun sales. It does it by misrepresenting gun possession. For the last 30 years, the NRA has tried, rather successfully, to equate gun possession with God, motherhood and apple pie. By massive PR campaigns and skillful misrepresentations, distortions and deceit, its managed to convince a very vocal minority of Americans that gun ownership has absolutely no consequences except those intended by the gun-owner. Obviously, that's not true. No parent would want her child to shoot herself in the head. These parents, however, allowed that to happen because they believed the NRA's gun propaganda. They believed gunliness was next to godlinness.

[Kathianne]

The NRA is a lobby for the gun industry. Its primary purpose is increasing gun sales. It does it by misrepresenting gun possession. For the last 30 years, the NRA has tried, rather successfully, to equate gun possession with God, motherhood and apple pie. By massive PR campaigns and skillful misrepresentations, distortions and deceit, its managed to convince a very vocal minority of Americans that gun ownership has absolutely no consequences except those intended by the gun-owner. Obviously, that's not true. No parent would want her child to shoot herself in the head. These parents, however, allowed that to happen because they believed the NRA's gun propaganda. They believed gunliness was next to godlinness.

The NRA lobbies for the second amendment, which may indeed aid the interests of gun manufactures, though that follows and is not the purpose:

http://www.nra.org/aboutus.aspx



Dismayed by the lack of marksmanship shown by their troops, Union veterans Col. William C. Church and Gen. George Wingate formed the National Rifle Association in 1871. The primary goal of the association would be to "promote and encourage rifle shooting on a scientific basis," according to a magazine editorial written by Church.

After being granted a charter by the state of New York on November 17, 1871, the NRA was founded. Civil War Gen. Ambrose Burnside, who was also the former governor of Rhode Island and a U.S. Senator, became the fledgling NRA's first president.

An important facet of the NRA's creation was the development of a practice ground. In 1872, with financial help from New York state, a site on Long Island, the Creed Farm, was purchased for the purpose of building a rifle range. Named Creedmoor, the range opened a year later, and it was there that the first annual matches were held.

Political opposition to the promotion of marksmanship in New York forced the NRA to find a new home for its range. In 1892, Creedmoor was deeded back to the state and NRA's matches moved to Sea Girt, New Jersey.

The NRA's interest in promoting the shooting sports among America's youth began in 1903 when NRA Secretary Albert S. Jones urged the establishment of rifle clubs at all major colleges, universities and military academies. By 1906, NRA's youth program was in full swing with more than 200 boys competing in matches at Sea Girt that summer. Today, youth programs are still a cornerstone of the NRA, with more than one million youth participating in NRA shooting sports events and affiliated programs with groups such as 4-H, the Boy Scouts of America, the American Legion, U.S. Jaycees and others.

Due to the overwhelming growth of NRA's shooting programs, a new range was needed. Gen. Ammon B. Crichfield, Adjutant General of Ohio, had begun construction of a new shooting facility on the shores of Lake Erie, 45 miles east of Toledo, Ohio. Camp Perry became the home of the annual National Matches, which have been the benchmark for excellence in marksmanship ever since. With nearly 6,000 people competing annually in pistol, smallbore and highpower events, the National Matches are one of the biggest sporting events held in the country today.

Through the association's magazine, The American Rifleman, members were kept abreast of new firearms bills, although the lag time in publishing often prevented the necessary information from going out quickly. In response to repeated attacks on the Second Amendment rights, NRA formed the Legislative Affairs Division in 1934. While NRA did not lobby directly at this time, it did mail out legislative facts and analyses to members, whereby they could take action on their own. In 1975, recognizing the critical need for political defense of the Second Amendment, NRA formed the Institute for Legislative Action, or ILA.

Meanwhile, the NRA continued its commitment to training, education and marksmanship. During World War II, the association offered its ranges to the government, developed training materials, encouraged members to serve as plant and home guard members and developed training materials for industrial security. NRA members even reloaded ammunition for those guarding war plants. Incidentally, the NRA's call to help arm Britain in 1940 resulted in the collection of more than 7,000 firearms for Britain's defense against potential invasion by Germany (Britain had virtually disarmed itself with a series of gun control laws enacted between World War I and World War II).

After the war, the NRA concentrated its efforts on another much-needed arena for education and training: the hunting community. In 1949, the NRA, in conjunction with the state of New York, established the first hunter education program. Hunter Education courses are now taught by state fish and game departments across the country and Canada and have helped make hunting one of the safest sports in existence. Due to increasing interest in hunting, NRA launched a new magazine in 1973, The American Hunter, dedicated solely to hunting issues year round. NRA continues its leadership role in hunting today with the Youth Hunter Education Challenge (YHEC), a program that allows youngsters to build on the skills they learned in basic hunter education courses. YHECs are now held in 43 states and three Canadian provinces, involving an estimated 40,000 young hunters.

The American Hunter and The American Rifleman were the mainstays of NRA publications until the debut of The American Guardian in 1997. The Guardian was created to cater to a more mainstream audience, with less emphasis on the technicalities of firearms and a more general focus on self-defense and recreational use of firearms. The Guardian was renamed America's 1st Freedom in June of 2000.

Law enforcement training was next on the priority list for program development. Although a special police school had been reinstated at Camp Perry in 1956, NRA became the only national trainer of law enforcement officers with the introduction of its NRA Police Firearms Instructor certification program in 1960. Today, there are more than 10,000 NRA-certified police and security firearms instructors. Additionally, top law enforcement shooters compete each year in eight different pistol and shotgun matches at the National Police Shooting Championships held in Jackson, Mississippi.

In civilian training, the NRA continues to be the leader in firearms education. Over 50,000 Certified Instructors now train about 750,000 gun owners a year. Courses are available in basic rifle, pistol, shotgun, muzzleloading firearms, personal protection, and even ammunition reloading. Additionally, nearly 1,000 Certified Coaches are specially trained to work with young competitive shooters. Since the establishment of the lifesaving Eddie Eagle® Gun Safety Program in 1988, more than 12 million pre-kindergarten to sixth grade children have learned that if they see a firearm in an unsupervised situation, they should "STOP. DON'T TOUCH. LEAVE THE AREA. TELL AN ADULT." Over the past seven years, Refuse To Be A Victim® seminars have helped more than 15,000 men and women develop their own personal safety plan using common sense strategies.

In 1990, NRA made a dramatic move to ensure that the financial support for firearms-related activities would be available now and for future generations. Establishing the NRA Foundation, a 501 (c) (3) tax-exempt organization, provided a means to raise millions of dollars to fund gun safety and educational projects of benefit to the general public. Contributions to the Foundation are tax-deductible and benefit a variety of American constituencies, including youths, women, hunters, competitive shooters, gun collectors, law enforcement agents and persons with physical disabilities.

While widely recognized today as a major political force and as America's foremost defender of Second Amendment rights, the NRA has, since its inception, been the premier firearms education organization in the world. But our successes would not be possible without the tireless efforts and countless hours of service our nearly three million members have given to champion Second Amendment rights and support NRA programs. As former Clinton spokesman George Stephanopoulos said, "Let me make one small vote for the NRA. They're good citizens. They call their Congressmen. They write. They vote. They contribute. And they get what they want over time."

[Sitarro]

The NRA is a lobby for the gun industry. Its primary purpose is increasing gun sales. It does it by misrepresenting gun possession. For the last 30 years, the NRA has tried, rather successfully, to equate gun possession with God, motherhood and apple pie. By massive PR campaigns and skillful misrepresentations, distortions and deceit, its managed to convince a very vocal minority of Americans that gun ownership has absolutely no consequences except those intended by the gun-owner. Obviously, that's not true. No parent would want her child to shoot herself in the head. These parents, however, allowed that to happen because they believed the NRA's gun propaganda. They believed gunliness was next to godlinness.

The NRA promotes gun safety ace, the parents that allow a gun in a child's hands are the irresponsible ones, just as a parent that buys there 16 year old a new Corvette or a Rice Rocket for their birthday.

[avatar4321]

It's about time the citizens took-back their country from the NRA.

did i miss the part where the NRA took over the country?

[avatar4321]

The NRA is a lobby for the gun industry. Its primary purpose is increasing gun sales. It does it by misrepresenting gun possession. For the last 30 years, the NRA has tried, rather successfully, to equate gun possession with God, motherhood and apple pie. By massive PR campaigns and skillful misrepresentations, distortions and deceit, its managed to convince a very vocal minority of Americans that gun ownership has absolutely no consequences except those intended by the gun-owner. Obviously, that's not true. No parent would want her child to shoot herself in the head. These parents, however, allowed that to happen because they believed the NRA's gun propaganda. They believed gunliness was next to godlinness.

Funny, I've never equated Guns with God, motherhood and Apple pie. The NRA is obviously failing in this campaign.

I also have a hard time understanding how the NRA can be guilty of a child getting shot in the head when the parents stupidly leave the gun in a place where the child can get it.

I do have laugh at the sensationalism you are trying to use to attack gun ownership. I find it very amusing that you are relying completely on emotions. There isnt a single intellectual argument in your entire post. But then using intelligence would require you to take into account the need for self defense and personal accountability which is a completely foreign concepet to you.

[Little-Acorn]

Mayor Nutter likened himself and City Council members yesterday to the band of rebels who formed this country as he signed five new gun-control laws

The American Revolution started when the authorities (such as this Nutter) imposed gun-control laws on the colonials, and then tried to enforce them. The colonials resisted, and when the authorities tried to seize their guns by force, the colonials fired back, at Concord and Lexington, MA.

This Nutter is right that the situation parallels that of the "band of rebels" he mentioned. But he needs to realize which side he's on.

BTW, the 233rd anniversary of that event, is this Saturday. :salute:

[hjmick]

Plain and simple:

Gun control does not deter criminals; it disenfranchises law-abiding, responsible citizens.

No matter how many laws are passed forcing people to do what a normally responsible gun owner takes for granted, stupid and irresponsible people will always put themselves and those around them in a situation which is potentially dangerous, deadly, and tragic. That's why we call them stupid and irresponsible. Prosecute them and put them in jail. You can't fix stupid.

Banning guns will do nothing, nothing to deter criminals. They will still buy guns, they will still use guns, and people will still die.

The result of banning guns will be simple:

It will make the general populace dependent on the government alone for it's safety. It will leave everyone wondering how long it will take law enforcement agents to respond while they have a gun at their head. It will give the government the means to impose it's will on the citizens of this country as we will have no way to respond should that day come. The government should fear it's citizens, not the inverse.

This is one of the reasons the 2nd Amendment is at the top of the Bill of Rights, so that, should the government over reach it's mandate or a President should decide to become King, we, the people have the means to resist, we have the means to at least attempt to prevent such an act.

Noah Webster said, "Tyranny is the exercise of some power over a man, which is not warranted by law, or necessary for the public safety. A people can never be deprived of their liberties, while they retain in their own hands, a power sufficient to any other power in the state."

Webster also stated, "Another source of power in government is a military force. But this, to be efficient, must be superior to any force that exists among the people, or which they can command; for otherwise this force would be annihilated, on the first exercise of acts of oppression. Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretence, raised in the United States."

Don't say it can't happen, there are examples of it through out the 20th century:

1911: Turkey establishes gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

1929: The Soviet Union establishes gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were ruthlessly hunted and exterminated.

1935: China establishes gun control. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

1938: Germany establishes gun control before invading Poland. From 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others labelled "inferior" to the Third Reich, who were unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

1956: Cambodia establishes gun control. From 1975 to 1977, one million "educated" people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. Read "educated" people, as those who were willing and able to intelligently speak out against the government.

1964: Guatemala establishes gun control. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

1970: Uganda establishes gun control. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

People like Joe Steel, while admirable for their strong beliefs and convictions, worry me and I believe they should worry everyone. It strikes me, however, that Joe is really basing these opinions on emotions rather than truth or reality. Emotion is not something upon which one should base an argument or decisions that will have an effect on millions of people. Certainly this is as true of gun control, a fundamental right our forefathers felt was needed for our basic freedom, as it is for anything else.

Unles of course you have genocide or a change of government in your plans.


Out of curiosity Joe, what other minority group to wish to impose your will upon? Where will your desire to control people, your belief that we can't take care of ourselves, end?




Fear the government that fears your guns.

[Abbey Marie]

I think it's clear that dictators do two things right away to gain total power:
control the news and take away the guns. These days, I assume that would have to include shutting down the Internet.

Mick is right Joe. Think about it.

[midcan5]

Bravo, I commend him for his efforts against easy access to guns. For the good guys, buying one gun or collector's item monthly is all the spouse or budget should allow anyway. LOL

[Little-Acorn]

I think it's clear that dictators do two things right away to gain total power:
control the news and take away the guns.
And one that takes a little longer: Take over the education of the young, and turn them against their parents. But it yields the most "benefits" for the dictator, in the long run.


Mick is right Joe. Think about it.
Half this thread is spent trying to get little joesteel to think.

Now THAT'S funny. :laugh2:

[avatar4321]

Bravo, I commend him for his efforts against easy access to guns. For the good guys, buying one gun or collector's item monthly is all the spouse or budget should allow anyway. LOL

then you need to marry the right person:p

[Abbey Marie]

And one that takes a little longer: Take over the education of the young, and turn them against their parents. But it yields the most "benefits" for the dictator, in the long run.


Half this thread is spent trying to get little joesteel to think.

Now THAT'S funny. :laugh2:

Call me an optimist. :laugh2: