And There You Have It, From General Petraues Himself...

[Pale Rider]

... what I've been saying for quite some time now... our troops and equipment are worn out....




Petraeus Says No New Buildup for Iraq
2008-04-09 18:40:52
By ANNE FLAHERTY Associated Press Writer

....................

Petraeus said, "I am keenly aware of the strain" on the military, noting his own deployment since 2001. "And I can tell you that there is nothing that a commander feels more than, in fact, the losses that we have sustained over there."

His resistance to the idea of any renewed increase of troops for Iraq reflects — at least in part — the reality that the rotation pool of some 1.3 million soldiers and Marines has been exhausted. Army soldiers in particular have faced repeated tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, and senior officers warn that the service's "strategic reserve" is at an all-time low.

Entire article here... (http://charter.net/news/news_reader.php?storyid=14540253&feedid=14)

[glockmail]

We need to double the pay of soldiers to attract more people into the profession.

[Pale Rider]

We need to double the pay of soldiers to attract more people into the profession.

Well, yeah. That's one thing we could do. No matter how you slice it, we need a military about twice the size of what we have now. Hell China has an army of over 200 million.

[LiberalNation]

size doesn't equal quality tho. China's "peoples" military by in large wouldn't be the best of soldiers if faced with a more technical force like ours in a conventional war. Their "real" military is prolly similier in size to ours.

[Gadget (fmr Marine)]

Yeah, the military was decimated in the Clinton years with troop reductions, base closings, and elimination of many needed troops. I wonder if Hillary made that call at 3am (she has experience, right?)


Well, yeah. That's one thing we could do. No matter how you slice it, we need a military about twice the size of what we have now. Hell China has an army of over 200 million.

[LiberalNation]

Army under stress from long wars

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080410/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_iraq_signs_of_strain;_ylt=AhyLNzYrF7Ozj3Prii5s. kCs0NUE

Unprecedented strains on the nation's all-volunteer military are threatening the health and readiness of the troops.

While the spotlight Wednesday was on congressional hearings with the U.S. ambassador and commanding general for Iraq, Army Vice Chief of Staff Gen. Richard Cody was in another hearing room explaining how troops and their families are being taxed by long wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and the prospect of future years of conflict in the global war on terror.

"That marathon has become an enduring relay and our soldiers continue to run — and at the double time," Cody said. "Does this exhaust the body and mind of those in the race, and those who are ever present on the sidelines, cheering their every step? Yes. Has it broken the will of the soldier? No."

And it's not just the people that are facing strains. Military depots have been working in high gear to repair or rebuild hundreds of thousands of pieces of equipment — from radios to vehicles to weapons — that are being overused and worn out in harsh battlefield conditions. The Defense Department has asked for $46.5 billion in this year's war budget to repair and replace equipment damaged or destroyed in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Both the Army and Marine Corps have been forced to take equipment from non-deployed units and from pre-positioned stocks to meet needs of those in combat — meaning troops at home can't train on the equipment.

National Guard units have only an average of 61 percent of the equipment needed to be ready for disasters or attacks on the U.S., Missouri Democrat Ike Skelton lamented at Wednesday's hearing of the House Armed Services Committee.

Cody and his Marine counterpart, Gen. Robert Magnus, told the committee they're not sure their forces could handle a new conflict if one came along. ~snip

[Pale Rider]

This war that shouldn't have been waged in the first place is now nothing more than a quagmire. We're there because were there, and now we have to stay there.... because we're there. Well ya know what? That's just not a good reason anymore. Somebody has to have the balls to stand up and say, "we need to find a way to extricate ourselves from this huge mess."

[glockmail]

This may put things in pespective: http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/deaths.asp

Add in the 3000 or so who died on September 11, as a result of Bill Clinton's inaction against terrorism, and the comparison between Clinton and Bush 43 is close to even.

[retiredman]

This may put things in pespective: http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/deaths.asp

Add in the 3000 or so who died on September 11, as a result of Bill Clinton's inaction against terrorism, and the comparison between Clinton and Bush 43 is close to even.

I would suggest that Bush's inaction against terrorism for the first eight months of his presidency had a great deal to do with Al Qaeda's successful attack on 9/11. Clearly and demonstrably, Bush didn't care too much about terrorism....his own Attorney General cut the DoJ anti-terrorism budget the day BEFORE 9/11. Bush was more worried about Star Wars and Ashcroft was more worried about porn.

[glockmail]

I would suggest that Bush's inaction against terrorism for the first eight months of his presidency had a great deal to do with Al Qaeda's successful attack on 9/11. Clearly and demonstrably, Bush didn't care too much about terrorism....his own Attorney General cut the DoJ anti-terrorism budget the day BEFORE 9/11. Bush was more worried about Star Wars and Ashcroft was more worried about porn. I would suggest that not only is your suggestion bullshit, but a more accurate analysis would be that the Democrats did everything that they could do derail his appointments, leaving critical areas of the government leaderless or still under Democrat control. The fault of 9/11 lies squarely with the Clinton Administration and the Democrat leadership in Congress.

[Gadget (fmr Marine)]

How can you possibly make such a statement without pissing yourself from laughing?

You don't think the previous 8 years had anything to do with Bush's first 8 months? If you had any credibility at all, it may now have gone down the toilet with the other shit you have tried to spread around.

I wish you well, manfrommaine....but go crawl back under that blanket of absurdity that you came from.....


I would suggest that Bush's inaction against terrorism for the first eight months of his presidency had a great deal to do with Al Qaeda's successful attack on 9/11. Clearly and demonstrably, Bush didn't care too much about terrorism....his own Attorney General cut the DoJ anti-terrorism budget the day BEFORE 9/11. Bush was more worried about Star Wars and Ashcroft was more worried about porn.

[retiredman]

How can you possibly make such a statement without pissing yourself from laughing?

You don't think the previous 8 years had anything to do with Bush's first 8 months? If you had any credibility at all, it may now have gone down the toilet with the other shit you have tried to spread around.

I wish you well, manfrommaine....but go crawl back under that blanket of absurdity that you came from.....

I think a lot of things led up to 9/11. I think that Reagan running away like a girlieman from Beirut had something to do with 9/11. I think Carter's failure to turn Tehran into rubble when they committed an act of war by overrunning our embassy had something to do with 9/11. I think Bush senior's inattention that led to the first WTC attack had something to do with 9/11. I think our Bush senior's war against Iraq and our troops being stationed in Saudi Arabia had something to do with 9/11. I think that every American president since Truman's support for Israel had something to do with 9/11. I think that Clinton's actions in Somalia had something to do with 9/11....AND I THINK THAT DUBYA'S INATTENTION TO WARNINGS ABOUT AL QAEDA AND HIS OBSESSION WITH STAR WARS AND ASHCROFT'S OBSESSION WITH PORNOGRAPHY HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH 9/11. For you to try to put 9/11 ALL on Clinton when Bush had been in office for nearly one fifth of his entire first term is really spreading some shit. HE WAS WARNED A MONTH BEFORE 9/11 THAT AL QAEDA WAS GETTING READY TO ATTACK US...AND HE BLEW IF OFF, STAYED ON VACATION, AND PLAYED FUCKING GOLF. Ashcroft took $50M from the DoJ anti-terrorism budget the day before 9/11.... Condi Rice had to cancel her major policy speech ON STSR WARS because of 9/11. To give the Bush administration a free pass is total bullshit.

go fuck yourself...under a rock, perhaps.:fu:

[retiredman]

I would suggest that not only is your suggestion bullshit, but a more accurate analysis would be that the Democrats did everything that they could do derail his appointments, leaving critical areas of the government leaderless or still under Democrat control. The fault of 9/11 lies squarely with the Clinton Administration and the Democrat leadership in Congress.

did we not have a director of the CIA? Did we not have an Attorney General? Did we not have a SecDef? Did we not have a director of NSA? Did we not have a Director of the FBI? Besides a non-leader in the Oval Office, what positions necessary to defend America were left "leaderless" in the Bush administration?

and you assholes like to put the FIRST WTC attack squarely on the Clinton adminstration too...what a fucking joke.:laugh2:

[glockmail]

did we not have a director of the CIA? Did we not have an Attorney General? Did we not have a SecDef? Did we not have a director of NSA? Did we not have a Director of the FBI? Besides a non-leader in the Oval Office, what positions necessary to defend America were left "leaderless" in the Bush administration?

and you assholes like to put the FIRST WTC attack squarely on the Clinton adminstration too...what a fucking joke.:laugh2:

THe CIA and FBI are the most and second most responsible agencies for 9/11.

Then CIA director Tenet was a holdover from Clinton. Due to all the problems with appointments created by the Democrats he was still there during the entire time leading up to 9-11.
Former central intelligence director George J. Tenet and his top lieutenants failed to marshal sufficient resources and provide the strategic planning needed to counter the threat of terrorism in the years before the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, according to a summary released yesterday of a long-secret CIA report.http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/21/AR2007082101104.html?hpid=topnews

FBI Director Freeh was a holdover from the Clinton Administration for the same reason. Bush's appointment did not replace him until 7 days before the attack. http://www.fbi.gov/libref/directors/freeh.htm

[theHawk]

What we need to do is pull our troops off patrolling the streets of Baghdad. We'll be in Iraq for a long time, I don't reallly see a problem with having bases there to carry out airstrikes and special ops raids against known terrorist strongholds. But this patrolling the streets shit has got to stop.

[manu1959]

did we not have a director of the CIA? Did we not have an Attorney General? Did we not have a SecDef? Did we not have a director of NSA? Did we not have a Director of the FBI? Besides a non-leader in the Oval Office, what positions necessary to defend America were left "leaderless" in the Bush administration?

and you assholes like to put the FIRST WTC attack squarely on the Clinton adminstration too...what a fucking joke.:laugh2:

yes we did....most appointed by clinton and most there for the 8 years and 8 months during the dozen attacks on US and western interests prior to 9/11....

[Pale Rider]

I think a lot of things led up to 9/11. I think that Reagan running away like a girlieman from Beirut had something to do with 9/11. I think Carter's failure to turn Tehran into rubble when they committed an act of war by overrunning our embassy had something to do with 9/11. I think Bush senior's inattention that led to the first WTC attack had something to do with 9/11. I think our Bush senior's war against Iraq and our troops being stationed in Saudi Arabia had something to do with 9/11. I think that every American president since Truman's support for Israel had something to do with 9/11. I think that Clinton's actions in Somalia had something to do with 9/11....AND I THINK THAT DUBYA'S INATTENTION TO WARNINGS ABOUT AL QAEDA AND HIS OBSESSION WITH STAR WARS AND ASHCROFT'S OBSESSION WITH PORNOGRAPHY HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH 9/11. For you to try to put 9/11 ALL on Clinton when Bush had been in office for nearly one fifth of his entire first term is really spreading some shit. HE WAS WARNED A MONTH BEFORE 9/11 THAT AL QAEDA WAS GETTING READY TO ATTACK US...AND HE BLEW IF OFF, STAYED ON VACATION, AND PLAYED FUCKING GOLF. Ashcroft took $50M from the DoJ anti-terrorism budget the day before 9/11.... Condi Rice had to cancel her major policy speech ON STSR WARS because of 9/11. To give the Bush administration a free pass is total bullshit.

go fuck yourself...under a rock, perhaps.:fu:

There's enough blame to go around for everyone for 9/1/1, and to follow, there's no way anyone can lay all that blame on one person alone. However, OBL was handed to bubba the intern molester on a silver platter, but he was too busy cigar dipping and distributing DNA in the Oval Office to give a fuck. Yeah if anyone DOES deserve the lions share of blame for 9/1/1, it's slick willie.

[emmett]

This war that shouldn't have been waged in the first place is now nothing more than a quagmire. We're there because were there, and now we have to stay there.... because we're there. Well ya know what? That's just not a good reason anymore. Somebody has to have the balls to stand up and say, "we need to find a way to extricate ourselves from this huge mess."

PR, were you always against being there?

[retiredman]

There's enough blame to go around for everyone for 9/1/1, and to follow, there's no way anyone can lay all that blame on one person alone. However, OBL was handed to bubba the intern molester on a silver platter, but he was too busy cigar dipping and distributing DNA in the Oval Office to give a fuck. Yeah if anyone DOES deserve the lions share of blame for 9/1/1, it's slick willie.

fuck that. we never had enough information on OBL in May of 1995 to warrant taking a foreign national into custody on foreign soil. period.

[trobinett]

fuck that. we never had enough information on OBL in May of 1995 to warrant taking a foreign national into custody on foreign soil. period.

Right, in the make believe world your sorry ass lives in.:poke:

[retiredman]

Right, in the make believe world your sorry ass lives in.:poke:


OK..in the real live world you claim to live in...tell me ONE THING we KNEW about OBL that would have provided any legal justification under international law for us to take custody of him in the Sudan in May of 1995.

I'll wait...

[Kathianne]

OK..in the real live world you claim to live in...tell me ONE THING we KNEW about OBL that would have provided any legal justification under international law for us to take custody of him in the Sudan in May of 1995.

I'll wait...

Not exact, perhaps not proof, but telling and mentioned by the 9/11 Commission in footnotes:

http://abcnews.go.com/International/IraqCoverage/story?id=1734490


..."Osama bin Laden Contact With Iraq"

A newly released prewar Iraqi document indicates that an official representative of Saddam Hussein's government met with Osama bin Laden in Sudan on February 19, 1995, after receiving approval from Saddam Hussein. Bin Laden asked that Iraq broadcast the lectures of Suleiman al Ouda, a radical Saudi preacher, and suggested "carrying out joint operations against foreign forces" in Saudi Arabia. According to the document, Saddam's presidency was informed of the details of the meeting on March 4, 1995, and Saddam agreed to dedicate a program for them on the radio. The document states that further "development of the relationship and cooperation between the two parties to be left according to what's open [in the future] based on dialogue and agreement on other ways of cooperation." The Sudanese were informed about the agreement to dedicate the program on the radio.

The report then states that "Saudi opposition figure" bin Laden had to leave Sudan in July 1996 after it was accused of harboring terrorists. It says information indicated he was in Afghanistan. "The relationship with him is still through the Sudanese. We're currently working on activating this relationship through a new channel in light of his current location," it states.

(Editor's Note: This document is handwritten and has no official seal. Although contacts between bin Laden and the Iraqis have been reported in the 9/11 Commission report and elsewhere (e.g., the 9/11 report states "Bin Ladn himself met with a senior Iraqi intelligence officer in Khartoum in late 1994 or early 1995) this document indicates the contacts were approved personally by Saddam Hussein.

It also indicates the discussions were substantive, in particular that bin Laden was proposing an operational relationship, and that the Iraqis were, at a minimum, interested in exploring a potential relationship and prepared to show good faith by broadcasting the speeches of al Ouda, the radical cleric who was also a bin Laden mentor.

The document does not establish that the two parties did in fact enter into an operational relationship. Given that the document claims bin Laden was proposing to the Iraqis that they conduct "joint operations against foreign forces" in Saudi Arabia, it is worth noting that eight months after the meeting -- on November 13, 1995 -- terrorists attacked Saudi National Guard Headquarters in Riyadh, killing 5 U.S. military advisers. The militants later confessed on Saudi TV to having been trained by Osama bin Laden.)

...

[retiredman]

Not exact, perhaps not proof, but telling and mentioned by the 9/11 Commission in footnotes:

http://abcnews.go.com/International/IraqCoverage/story?id=1734490


like I said, what did we know prior to MAY OF 1995 that would have allowed us to take custody of a foreign national on foreign soil?

[Kathianne]

like I said, what did we know prior to MAY OF 1995 that would have allowed us to take custody of a foreign national on foreign soil?

Some crossover and let's say there was plenty of writing on the wall.

[retiredman]

Some crossover and let's say there was plenty of writing on the wall.

what did we know in May of 1995 that would have allowed us, under international law, to take custody of Osama bin Laden in the Sudan?

it really is a very simple question.

[Kathianne]

what did we know in May of 1995 that would have allowed us, under international law, to take custody of Osama bin Laden in the Sudan?

it really is a very simple question.

Legally, not enough. I'd heard of him by then, I'm assuming more was known by the intelligence agencies. Seems something could have been done, just like the dots should have been connected prior to 9/11 or at least enough of them to have prevented.

[retiredman]

Legally, not enough. I'd heard of him by then, I'm assuming more was known by the intelligence agencies. Seems something could have been done, just like the dots should have been connected prior to 9/11 or at least enough of them to have prevented.


so... we didn't know enough about OBL to take custody of him in May of 1995 in the Sudan.

just say so.

and given the fact that he left the Sudan that month, the constant bullshit about how Clinton passed up an opportunity to take him into custody when the Sudan offered him to us is really nothing more than silly partisan noise. do you agree?

[Kathianne]

so... we didn't know enough about OBL to take custody of him in May of 1995 in the Sudan.

just say so.

and given the fact that he left the Sudan that month, the constant bullshit about how Clinton passed up an opportunity to take him into custody when the Sudan offered him to us is really nothing more than silly partisan noise. do you agree?

I am saying that Clinton should have had something done, since it was already more than clear that the US was a target of this guy. I'm assuming you mean within the normal channels, well that's what leads to war. The ballyhoo after 9/11 from many was that the plan should have been thwarted, regardless of legalities. Somehow they should have 'known' what was coming down, from the type of information we currently have once again, unavailable to us.

Can't have it all ways.

[retiredman]

I am saying that Clinton should have had something done, since it was already more than clear that the US was a target of this guy. I'm assuming you mean within the normal channels, well that's what leads to war. The ballyhoo after 9/11 from many was that the plan should have been thwarted, regardless of legalities. Somehow they should have 'known' what was coming down, from the type of information we currently have once again, unavailable to us.

Can't have it all ways.


coulda woulda shoulda

blaming Clinton for not getting OBL in 1995 while not completely castigating and condemning Bush for ignoring the August PDB, for playing golf instead of worrying about our security, for allowing Ashcroft to take money from the DOJ anti-terrorism task force budget the day before 9/11 is pure partisan hackery.

[Kathianne]

coulda woulda shoulda

blaming Clinton for not getting OBL in 1995 while not completely castigating and condemning Bush for ignoring the August PDB, for playing golf instead of worrying about our security, for allowing Ashcroft to take money from the DOJ anti-terrorism task force budget the day before 9/11 is pure partisan hackery.

Here's the thing, I don't blame Clinton, I don't think he could have known the future. I don't blame Bush, he was in office 9 months, with only 2 months to prepare for because of the weird election. It was not a smooth transitions, on purpose by Clinton-which I do blame him for. So should you, it cost all of us, a lot.

[retiredman]

Here's the thing, I don't blame Clinton, I don't think he could have known the future. I don't blame Bush, he was in office 9 months, with only 2 months to prepare for because of the weird election. It was not a smooth transitions, on purpose by Clinton-which I do blame him for. So should you, it cost all of us, a lot.

I wouldn't expect you to blame Bush for anything. The transition did not make Bush ignore the August PDB which told him that Al Qaeda was planning to attack us...the transition did not cause Bush to take the longest presidential vacation EVER a mere SEVEN months on the job. The transition did NOT cause the Bush administration to be more focused on Star Wars and pornography than on terrorism.

[Kathianne]

I wouldn't expect you to blame Bush for anything. The transition did not make Bush ignore the August PDB which told him that Al Qaeda was planning to attack us...the transition did not cause Bush to take the longest presidential vacation EVER a mere SEVEN months on the job. The transition did NOT cause the Bush administration to be more focused on Star Wars and pornography than on terrorism.

You and I both know that the 'vacation crap' is just that, crap. The August PDB was no more or less 'scary' than many that had come in the previous years. Don't assume that all are brainless, you do that way too often.

[retiredman]

You and I both know that the 'vacation crap' is just that, crap. The August PDB was no more or less 'scary' than many that had come in the previous years. Don't assume that all are brainless, you do that way too often.

I know that when Clinton heard about a possible Y2K terrorist attack, he demanded that the CIA and the FBI shake the tree and uncover the plot...I know that he demanded daily briefings on the subject. I know that in a similar situation, Bush didn't miss his tee time. I know that Ashcroft took $50+M from the DOJ anti-terrorism task force because HE didn't think it was a very important priority... nowhere near as important as getting rid of pornography.... I know that Bush's national security advisor, rather than working on the threat from terrorism, had to cancel her speech about Star Wars because planes had crashed into the WTC. Do you deny those facts?

[Kathianne]

I know that when Clinton heard about a possible Y2K terrorist attack, he demanded that the CIA and the FBI shake the tree and uncover the plot...I know that he demanded daily briefings on the subject. I know that in a similar situation, Bush didn't miss his tee time. I know that Ashcroft took $50+M from the DOJ anti-terrorism task force because HE didn't think it was a very important priority... nowhere near as important as getting rid of pornography.... I know that Bush's national security advisor, rather than working on the threat from terrorism, had to cancel her speech about Star Wars because planes had crashed into the WTC. Do you deny those facts?

It wasn't real, the only y2 plot was from ME terrorists that thank God, the Canadians and US border broke up. Ever notice that your boy Bill, was more a color coded than even Ashcroft? Seriously, he bombed depending on his home front polling, it's way more than obvious that this administration for all its bumbling, isn't playing to the polls.

[retiredman]

It wasn't real, the only y2 plot was from ME terrorists that thank God, the Canadians and US border broke up. Ever notice that your boy Bill, was more a color coded than even Ashcroft? Seriously, he bombed depending on his home front polling, it's way more than obvious that this administration for all its bumbling, isn't playing to the polls.

playing to the polls? what does that have to do with downplaying the importance of terrorism and focusing, instead, on star wars and porn?

[Kathianne]

playing to the polls? what does that have to do with downplaying the importance of terrorism and focusing, instead, on star wars and porn?

'Star Wars' started with Reagan, it still hasn't come to fruition, though with that satellite, it looks closer than I would have thought. Seriously, again you are being too cute by half, no matter how 'focused' you claim GW was on such, in less than 9 months we both know little would be done. This of course at a time when he was trying to make appointments and getting them approved with less than an overwhelming number of like minded in Congress.

[retiredman]

'Star Wars' started with Reagan, it still hasn't come to fruition, though with that satellite, it looks closer than I would have thought. Seriously, again you are being too cute by half, no matter how 'focused' you claim GW was on such, in less than 9 months we both know little would be done. This of course at a time when he was trying to make appointments and getting them approved with less than an overwhelming number of like minded in Congress.


yeah...he was working really hard on those appointments...in between playing golf and cutting brush and kickin' back on vacation in crawford. the point is, his administration did NOT consider terrorism to be the priority... and then 9/11 happened and then everyone wanted to forget that Bush hadn't made it a priority and blame it all on Clinton.

[Kathianne]

yeah...he was working really hard on those appointments...in between playing golf and cutting brush and kickin' back on vacation in crawford. the point is, his administration did NOT consider terrorism to be the priority... and then 9/11 happened and then everyone wanted to forget that Bush hadn't made it a priority and blame it all on Clinton.

This is not worth a reply to. You accuse others of being trite, well welcome to the club.

[retiredman]

This is not worth a reply to. You accuse others of being trite, well welcome to the club.

are you denying that the Bush administration was much more interested in star wars and pornography than they were about muslim terrorists?

[Kathianne]

are you denying that the Bush administration was much more interested in star wars and pornography than they were about muslim terrorists?

Yes. You obviously are convinced differently, based upon what?

[retiredman]

Yes. You obviously are convinced differently, based upon what?

the actions of the Bush adminstration in the months before 9/11.

how many speeches did Condi give about the threats of Al Qaeda?

How many on Star Wars?

How much money did Ashcroft take away from the antiterrorism task force budget?

How much effort did we spend on eradicating pornography?

[Gadget (fmr Marine)]

You don't suppose any blame goes on the medieval terrorist thugs that perpetrated the crime.....you would rather point a finger at an elected official?

You can blame whomever you want, but the responsiblity for for the attacks of 9/11 lay at the hands of those who committed the acts....

Does US policy have something to do with it....sure it does....they do not like tolerance and a free society. You enable THEM by giving them the benefit of the doubt, when surely they would use you, and sever your head from your torso after they have used you for THEIR purpose of clamping down on all the freedoms you seem to take for granted.

Your use of personal attacks is an indication of your inability to fully voice your opinion in a civil and respectful manner, but I would expect nothing less.


I think a lot of things led up to 9/11. I think that Reagan running away like a girlieman from Beirut had something to do with 9/11. I think Carter's failure to turn Tehran into rubble when they committed an act of war by overrunning our embassy had something to do with 9/11. I think Bush senior's inattention that led to the first WTC attack had something to do with 9/11. I think our Bush senior's war against Iraq and our troops being stationed in Saudi Arabia had something to do with 9/11. I think that every American president since Truman's support for Israel had something to do with 9/11. I think that Clinton's actions in Somalia had something to do with 9/11....AND I THINK THAT DUBYA'S INATTENTION TO WARNINGS ABOUT AL QAEDA AND HIS OBSESSION WITH STAR WARS AND ASHCROFT'S OBSESSION WITH PORNOGRAPHY HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH 9/11. For you to try to put 9/11 ALL on Clinton when Bush had been in office for nearly one fifth of his entire first term is really spreading some shit. HE WAS WARNED A MONTH BEFORE 9/11 THAT AL QAEDA WAS GETTING READY TO ATTACK US...AND HE BLEW IF OFF, STAYED ON VACATION, AND PLAYED FUCKING GOLF. Ashcroft took $50M from the DoJ anti-terrorism budget the day before 9/11.... Condi Rice had to cancel her major policy speech ON STSR WARS because of 9/11. To give the Bush administration a free pass is total bullshit.

go fuck yourself...under a rock, perhaps.:fu:

[retiredman]

You don't suppose any blame goes on the medieval terrorist thugs that perpetrated the crime.....you would rather point a finger at an elected official?

You can blame whomever you want, but the responsiblity for for the attacks of 9/11 lay at the hands of those who committed the acts....

Does US policy have something to do with it....sure it does....they do not like tolerance and a free society. You enable THEM by giving them the benefit of the doubt, when surely they would use you, and sever your head from your torso after they have used you for THEIR purpose of clamping down on all the freedoms you seem to take for granted.

Your use of personal attacks is an indication of your inability to fully voice your opinion in a civil and respectful manner, but I would expect nothing less.

of COURSE Al Qaeda is to blame for the attacks on 9/11. I am taking issue with folks such as yourself who would like to suggest that is was president Clinton who allowed them to successfully attack us while absolving your chimp hero of any responsibility.

And here's a newsflash: Al Qaeda could give a shit about our tolerant and free society. They would not waste 19 lives to attack us because we had a free and tolerant society. Japan has a free and tolerant society. When was the last time Al Qaeda flew planes into the Toyko skyline???

They attacked us because we prop up the Saudi monarchy, because we unilaterally and unconditionally support Israel and because we had infidel troops stationed on holy Islamic ground.

[trobinett]

OK..in the real live world you claim to live in...tell me ONE THING we KNEW about OBL that would have provided any legal justification under international law for us to take custody of him in the Sudan in May of 1995.

I'll wait...

I feel honored that you would give me the opportunity to respond.

I know your pulling my middle leg, and it feels good, really, but the amount of information available on this subject fills volumes, why would you ask me to fill in the blanks for you, do you not have any reading skills, or is it comprehension skills?

Please, I'm waiting.......:slap:

[retiredman]

I feel honored that you would give me the opportunity to respond.

I know your pulling my middle leg, and it feels good, really, but the amount of information available on this subject fills volumes, why would you ask me to fill in the blanks for you, do you not have any reading skills, or is it comprehension skills?

Please, I'm waiting.......:slap:

in fact, we had no knowledge of any criminal acts by OBL against the US or US interestss until after he had left the Sudan. We had no justification to take custody of a him at the time he was "offered".

[Gadget (fmr Marine)]

SO it was Bush (who acted in a vaccuum) who allowed this to happen?

You are an idiot.....you absolve Clinton, and any other political hack who you identify with....yet heap blame on those in the US government you do not like? Yep....IDIOT!

al Qaeda dispises our open and tolerant society, and if you don't understand that, you are an even bigger MAROON than I previously indicated. The caliphate that al Queada seeks to build depends on toppling our tolerant society and putting in place an islamic state for the entire world....it is just easiest to attack a society that is free because of people like you who are accepting and tolerant of thier differences, and think we can peacefully co exist.

Look, asshole, they are not goinig to peacefully co exist with you, me or DUPREE! They want to use you, and kill the rest of us, before they kill you! Harsh, but true, and the sooner you put up some defense, the better off you are going to be (and the rest of the free world, as well!)

You think in terms of 4 year election cycles and administrations.....they are thinking in terms of generations.....you better wake up, or your children or grand children will all be a memory not to be.....


of COURSE Al Qaeda is to blame for the attacks on 9/11. I am taking issue with folks such as yourself who would like to suggest that is was president Clinton who allowed them to successfully attack us while absolving your chimp hero of any responsibility.

And here's a newsflash: Al Qaeda could give a shit about our tolerant and free society. They would not waste 19 lives to attack us because we had a free and tolerant society. Japan has a free and tolerant society. When was the last time Al Qaeda flew planes into the Toyko skyline???

They attacked us because we prop up the Saudi monarchy, because we unilaterally and unconditionally support Israel and because we had infidel troops stationed on holy Islamic ground.

[Gadget (fmr Marine)]

"After re-reading your post, I take even greater issue with you, and your allegiances....

Are you a Muslim? Not that I care, but YOU are calling US troops infidels? WTF is that? You think the US is the only country that supports Israel (unilaterally?) YOu also think that our support is unconditional?

You are a fucking idiot! You don't have any credibility with me, any longer, if you support these statements you made.

Do you stand by what you said, or are you just drunk and need a pass, because you are incompetent and incoherent?


of COURSE Al Qaeda is to blame for the attacks on 9/11. I am taking issue with folks such as yourself who would like to suggest that is was president Clinton who allowed them to successfully attack us while absolving your chimp hero of any responsibility.

And here's a newsflash: Al Qaeda could give a shit about our tolerant and free society. They would not waste 19 lives to attack us because we had a free and tolerant society. Japan has a free and tolerant society. When was the last time Al Qaeda flew planes into the Toyko skyline???

They attacked us because we prop up the Saudi monarchy, because we unilaterally and unconditionally support Israel and because we had infidel troops stationed on holy Islamic ground.

[glockmail]

in fact, we had no knowledge of any criminal acts by OBL against the US or US interestss until after he had left the Sudan. We had no justification to take custody of a him at the time he was "offered".
I'm still waiting for a rsponse to post 14. :pee:

[red states rule]

"After re-reading your post, I take even greater issue with you, and your allegiances....

Are you a Muslim? Not that I care, but YOU are calling US troops infidels? WTF is that? You think the US is the only country that supports Israel (unilaterally?) YOu also think that our support is unconditional?

You are a fucking idiot! You don't have any credibility with me, any longer, if you support these statements you made.

Do you stand by what you said, or are you just drunk and need a pass, because you are incompetent and incoherent?

MFM has ben insulting and sliming the troops for as long as I have been on the board

He is a proud member of the Surrender At All Costs party. Better known as the Democrat party

With him it is always party before country

[retiredman]

THe CIA and FBI are the most and second most responsible agencies for 9/11.

Then CIA director Tenet was a holdover from Clinton. Due to all the problems with appointments created by the Democrats he was still there during the entire time leading up to 9-11. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/21/AR2007082101104.html?hpid=topnews

FBI Director Freeh was a holdover from the Clinton Administration for the same reason. Bush's appointment did not replace him until 7 days before the attack. http://www.fbi.gov/libref/directors/freeh.htm

Neither Freeh and Tenet were merely placeholders awaiting the confirmation of Bush appointees. Both were chosen by Bush to REMAIN in their positions. Once Dubya decided to keep them, they became HIS choice.

[glockmail]

Neither Freeh and Tenet were merely placeholders awaiting the confirmation of Bush appointees. Both were chosen by Bush to REMAIN in their positions. Once Dubya decided to keep them, they became HIS choice. :lol: Nice try. The Democrats dragged their feet on every appointment, basically denying Bush the ability to staff entire departments. So now that's Bush's fault?

Sorry pal, but even the most partisan Democrat has to admit that the fault lies squarely with Clinton appointees.

[red states rule]

:lol: Nice try. The Democrats dragged their feet on every appointment, basically denying Bush the ability to staff entire departments. So now that's Bush's fault?

Sorry pal, but even the most partisan Democrat has to admit that the fault lies squarely with Clinton appointees.

It was Pres Bush's fault because Pres Bush defeated Al Gore

To Dems that remains, to this day, an unforgivable sin

[retiredman]

:lol: Nice try. The Democrats dragged their feet on every appointment, basically denying Bush the ability to staff entire departments. So now that's Bush's fault?

Sorry pal, but even the most partisan Democrat has to admit that the fault lies squarely with Clinton appointees.



YOU were the one, in your post #14, who tried to lay Tenet and Freeh on democrats as sokme sort of proof of their footdragging. That is simply not the case. Bush had no intention of replacing either of them. That's fact.

And once he'd made that decision, they stopped being "Clinton Appointees", and started being Bush administration boys.

[glockmail]

YOU were the one, in your post #14, who tried to lay Tenet and Freeh on democrats as sokme sort of proof of their footdragging. That is simply not the case. Bush had no intention of replacing either of them. That's fact.

And once he'd made that decision, they stopped being "Clinton Appointees", and started being Bush administration boys.

I think that due to the Democrat foot dragging, Bush likely assessed the CLINTON Department Heads one by one, then prioritized the required changes based on that assessment. Both these CLINTON clowns probably assured him that they had a handle on things, which they obviously did not. We'll never know what the true story is, except for the fact that these two clowns were both appointed by CLINTON.

[retiredman]

I think that due to the Democrat foot dragging, Bush likely assessed the CLINTON Department Heads one by one, then prioritized the required changes based on that assessment. Both these CLINTON clowns probably assured him that they had a handle on things, which they obviously did not. We'll never know what the true story is, except for the fact that these two clowns were both appointed by CLINTON.

lots of glock opinions there masquerading as fact. "I think"... "likely"... "probably"... "we'll never know"... yada yada yada.

FACT: Bush had the opportunity to ask both men for their resignations upon his inauguration. HE decided to keep both men on. At that point, they became BUSH BOYS. Deal with it.

[glockmail]

The FACT is that Bush didn't have the choice to remove those clowns in such a short time frame due to Democrat foot-dragging: undeniable. That doesn't make them "Bush Boys" by any stretch of the imagination, except for someone who is not particularly astute at reality.

[retiredman]

The FACT is that Bush didn't have the choice to remove those clowns in such a short time frame due to Democrat foot-dragging: undeniable. That doesn't make them "Bush Boys" by any stretch of the imagination, except for someone who is not particularly astute at reality.


He had the choice to take steps to replace them, like he took steps to replace scores of OTHER Clinton administration officials. Bush didn't have Bill Cohen, for example, stick around...he announced Rumsfeld as his SECDEF long before his inauguration and Rummy started on the job on day one. Freeh and Tenet??? Bush CHOSE to keep these two on. That makes 'em Bush boys. sorry.

[red states rule]

The FACT is that Bush didn't have the choice to remove those clowns in such a short time frame due to Democrat foot-dragging: undeniable. That doesn't make them "Bush Boys" by any stretch of the imagination, except for someone who is not particularly astute at reality.

Look at the fit Dems had when Pres Bush replaced US attorneys. They demanded Congressinal investagations

No matter what Pres Bush does, Dems wil find some reason to attack

[retiredman]

Look at the fit Dems had when Pres Bush replaced US attorneys. They demanded Congressinal investagations

No matter what Pres Bush does, Dems wil find some reason to attack


nobody complains when a new president brings in his own team. Bush CHOSE to make Tenet and Freeh members of HIS team. They accepted. They became Bush boys. period.

[red states rule]

nobody complains when a new president brings in his own team. Bush CHOSE to make Tenet and Freeh members of HIS team. They accepted. They became Bush boys. period.

Given how quickly the Dems were approving his appointies, the posts would have been empty for some time if Pres bush asked them to leave

Dems were to busy saying Bush was not elected but selected to do their job

But of course, this is the Dems view partisanship

[retiredman]

Given how quickly the Dems were approving his appointies, the posts would have been empty for some time if Pres bush asked them to leave

Dems were to busy saying Bush was not elected but selected to do their job

But of course, this is the Dems view partisanship

the point is: he didn't WANT those two to leave. He chose to keep them....they became Bush boys.

[red states rule]

the point is: he didn't WANT those two to leave. He chose to keep them....they became Bush boys.

Still fighting old batles, and still losing them

I thought libs looked to the future :lol:

[glockmail]

Notice how quickly Maineman throws these CLINTON appointees under the bus and claims that they are now Bush Boys. :laugh2:

[red states rule]

Notice how quickly Maineman throws these CLINTON appointees under the bus and claims that they are now Bush Boys. :laugh2:

If it suites his politcial needs, he would toss his mother under the bus

The shift it in reverse, and back over her a few times

[glockmail]

If it suites his politcial needs, he would toss his mother under the bus

The shift it in reverse, and back over her a few times
Just like Obama did to his poor old Granny.

[red states rule]

Just like Obama did to his poor old Granny.

It is sad to see how quickly a lib will turn on you - all for policital points nd power

[glockmail]

It is sad to see how quickly a lib will turn on you - all for policital points nd power
Its expected based on their main goal: political power. Everything else comes in distant second: family, country, honor.

[red states rule]

Its expected based on their main goal: political power. Everything else comes in distant second: family, country, honor.

and libs like MFM live by that rule

Party before anything else

[retiredman]

Notice how quickly Maineman throws these CLINTON appointees under the bus and claims that they are now Bush Boys. :laugh2:


They ARE Bush boys. YOU can try to claim otherwise, but the facts are against you. Bush could very well have asked them to step down, like he did scores of other Clinton administration leaders. He CHOSE to have Tenet and Freeh stay. YOu can spin and bluster all you want about that, but it is true. George Tenet was George Bush's CHOICE as DCI. Louis Freeh was George Bush's CHOICE to head the FBI. The fact that Clinton also had chosen them does not change the FACT that Bush did.

[red states rule]

They ARE Bush boys. YOU can try to claim otherwise, but the facts are against you. Bush could very well have asked them to step down, like he did scores of other Clinton administration leaders. He CHOSE to have Tenet and Freeh stay. YOu can spin and bluster all you want about that, but it is true. George Tenet was George Bush's CHOICE as DCI. Louis Freeh was George Bush's CHOICE to head the FBI. The fact that Clinton also had chosen them does not change the FACT that Bush did.

We do have to remember, you have thrown the Clintons under the bus as well

[retiredman]

Its expected based on their main goal: political power. Everything else comes in distant second: family, country, honor.


you are treading on thin ice. Try to debate the issues and don't besmirch the integrity or patriotism of your opponents... and certainly keep family out if it.

[red states rule]

you are treading on thin ice. Try to debate the issues and don't besmirch the integrity or patriotism of your opponents... and certainly keep family out if it.

You have to have integrity and patriotism before we can "besmirch" it

[retiredman]

You have to have integrity and patriotism before we can "besmirch" it

what do you say if we stop the personal attacks, RSR?

Let's you and I try to debate issues instead of denigrating one another personally?

What would you say to that?

[glockmail]

you are treading on thin ice. Try to debate the issues and don't besmirch the integrity or patriotism of your opponents... and certainly keep family out if it.
Oh, I'm scared. What are you going to do now, call me a child molester with my kids? Sorry but you already tried that and it didn't work. :pee:

[red states rule]

Oh, I'm scared. What are you going to do now, call me a child molester with my kids? Sorry but you already tried that and it didn't work. :pee:

or provide us more of his grave maintance tips?

[retiredman]

Oh, I'm scared. What are you going to do now, call me a child molester with my kids? Sorry but you already tried that and it didn't work. :pee:

I was under the impression that we had agreed to try to debate issues instead of simply attack one another. I guess I was mistaken.

c'est la vie, c'est la guerre.

[Yurt]

what do you say if we stop the personal attacks, RSR?

Let's you and I try to debate issues instead of denigrating one another personally?

What would you say to that?

you're such a hypocrite...why don't you tell people what you said in your sweet little rep to me

[red states rule]

you're such a hypocrite...why don't you tell people what you said in your sweet little rep to me

Or what he said to me this morning in his neg rep message

I see a pattern here

[retiredman]

you're such a hypocrite...why don't you tell people what you said in your sweet little rep to me


why don't you reconsider what you wrote about me that caused me to give you the rep in the first place. "physician, heal thyself"

Oh...and after you HAD insulted me, I repped you with the very succinct "fuck you".

It stands.:fu:

When you wanna quit playing the "let's find new ways to dis MFM while kissing RSR's ass" game and actually start debating issues, you let me know.... I may give you a positive rep for such an upgrade in your maturity.

[Yurt]

why don't you reconsider what you wrote about me that caused me to give you the rep in the first place. "physician, heal thyself"

Oh...and after you HAD insulted me, I repped you with the very succinct "fuck you".

It stands.:fu:

When you wanna quit playing the "let's find new ways to dis MFM while kissing RSR's ass" game and actually start debating issues, you let me know.... I may give you a positive rep for such an upgrade in your maturity.

how christ like "preacher"....

[retiredman]

how christ like "preacher"....
how would YOU know what is christlike?

your kin were the ones who crucified him.

[red states rule]

how christ like "preacher"....

He attended the Rev Wright School of Ministry

[retiredman]

He attended the Rev Wright School of Ministry


again...RSR... I offer the suggestion that we both put our personal attacks against one another in a drawer somewhere and concentrate here on debating issues with civility? Is that something you are at all interested in doing?

[red states rule]

again...RSR... I offer the suggestion that we both put our personal attacks against one another in a drawer somewhere and concentrate here on debating issues with civility? Is that something you are at all interested in doing?

Your offer reminds me of Al Copone offering Bugs Moran a deal to bury the hatchet

[retiredman]

Your offer reminds me of Al Copone offering Bugs Moran a deal to bury the hatchet

I am offering you the opportunity to debate issues and refrain from attacking each other's intellect, or integrity or patriotism.

Are you interested or not?

[Pale Rider]

Your offer reminds me of Al Copone offering Bugs Moran a deal to bury the hatchet

It won't last... and he's no preacher. He might have pulled that lie off had he not had a mouth like a junk yard dog.

[red states rule]

It won't last... and he's no preacher. He might have pulled that lie off had he not had a mouth like a junk yard dog.

Pale, why are you insulting junk yard dogs?

[glockmail]

.....

c'est la vie, c'est la guerre.
I always knew you were queer. Now I have proof, Frenchie. :lol:

[glockmail]

It won't last... and he's no preacher. He might have pulled that lie off had he not had a mouth like a junk yard dog. Careful Pale, you're "on thin ice". :coffee:

[Yurt]

how would YOU know what is christlike?

your kin were the ones who crucified him.

tell us preacher, who's will was it that jesus die? you're no preacher, you're bigot jew-hating fraud....as if the disciples were not jews, moron

[red states rule]

Careful Pale, you're "on thin ice". :coffee:

Not with global cooling

Pale is on very thick ice

[retiredman]

tell us preacher, who's will was it that jesus die? you're no preacher, you're bigot jew-hating fraud....as if the disciples were not jews, moron

It was God's will. And the disciples may have denied Christ, but your kinfolk gave Barabbas the free pass..... not mine. ;)

[red states rule]

It was God's will. And the disciples may have denied Christ, but your kinfolk gave Barabbas the free pass..... not mine. ;)

With your anti-semitic bigotry you would have fit in fine in 1930 Berlin

[retiredman]

With your anti-semitic bigotry you would have fit in fine in 1930 Berlin


I am very pro-Israeli...I don't have an anti-semitic bone in my body. Pulling Yurt's self righteous chain is so easy, I cannot resist.

Have you had any time to consider my proposal to you that we move beyond personal invective and try to keep our words focused on the issues that we might debate in a civil manner with one another?

[red states rule]

I am very pro-Israeli...I don't have an anti-semitic bone in my body. Pulling Yurt's self righteous chain is so easy, I cannot resist.

Have you had any time to consider my proposal to you that we move beyond personal invective and try to keep our words focused on the issues that we might debate in a civil manner with one another?

and sprewing your hate, rage, and now bigotry is now something you can't resist

[mundame]

Have you had any time to consider my proposal to you that we move beyond personal invective and try to keep our words focused on the issues that we might debate in a civil manner with one another?


You first?

I think the penalty is that it means you can't talk with everyone. http://deephousepage.com/smilies/ignore.gif

Well, you COULD, if you were seriously into turning the other cheek. But I think it would be sort of masochistic.

The other possibility is trying to convert everyone into politeness.





That really works................................ http://smilies.vidahost.com/otn/wink/wink.gif


Okay, now I'll butt out again.

[retiredman]

and sprewing your hate, rage, and now bigotry is now something you can't resist

I have no rage or bigotry.

have you considered my proposal?

[red states rule]

I have no rage or bigotry.

have you considered my proposal?

You have nothing but rage toward anyone who disagrees with you

You have shown your bigotry toward Jews

Anything else you want to confess?

[retiredman]

You have nothing but rage toward anyone who disagrees with you

You have shown your bigotry toward Jews

Anything else you want to confess?

you are wrong on both counts.

But do you want to move past these personal recriminations and agree to debate issues and keep invective out of our debate?

[Yurt]

It was God's will. And the disciples may have denied Christ, but your kinfolk gave Barabbas the free pass..... not mine. ;)

first it was the jews killed christ, now its the jews gave barabbas free pass.... if it was god's will that jesus died, what difference does barrabas make? you obviously don't know much about the bible...because you are saying that Jesus's kinfolk killed him, yet he still wanted the message preached to them. you may know words in the bible, but its spiritual truths elude you....

and not all the disciples denied christ, "preacher"

funny how you have no problem pulling my so-called chain, yet you beg others to treat you with respect.

you're a jew bigot and you know it. it was sin, not jews that killed christ, preacher

[glockmail]

I get these proposals occasionally from MFM myself. Curious choice of words. They shouldn't be taken seriously, based on his past behavior. Lucy and the Football comes to mind.

[retiredman]

first it was the jews killed christ, now its the jews gave barabbas free pass.... if it was god's will that jesus died, what difference does barrabas make? you obviously don't know much about the bible...because you are saying that Jesus's kinfolk killed him, yet he still wanted the message preached to them. you may know words in the bible, but its spiritual truths elude you....

and not all the disciples denied christ, "preacher"

funny how you have no problem pulling my so-called chain, yet you beg others to treat you with respect.

you're a jew bigot and you know it. it was sin, not jews that killed christ, preacher


I'd treat you with respect if you treated me the same. I have told you that in PM's and you continue to disrespect me... so I'll continue to pull your chain, christkiller.

[retiredman]

I get these proposals occasionally from MFM myself. Curious choice of words. They shouldn't be taken seriously, based on his past behavior. Lucy and the Football comes to mind.

let the man make his own decisions...you have made yours.

[Yurt]

I'd treat you with respect if you treated me the same. I have told you that in PM's and you continue to disrespect me... so I'll continue to pull your chain, christkiller.

a preacher would never, ever say that. what a moron....

and how exactly am i a christkiller preacher? show me from the bible. ah forget it, no need, this insult absolutely proves you lied about being a preacher, you're full of it....

[red states rule]

I'd treat you with respect if you treated me the same. I have told you that in PM's and you continue to disrespect me... so I'll continue to pull your chain, christkiller.

Were you born a bigoted asshole, or did you have to work at it?

[retiredman]

a preacher would never, ever say that. what a moron....

and how exactly am i a christkiller preacher? show me from the bible. ah forget it, no need, this insult absolutely proves you lied about being a preacher, you're full of it....


like shooting fish in a barrel.

like I said... you insult me, I am gonna insult you. and your inability to avoid throwing childish hissy fits is absolutely proof that you lied about being a lawyer.:laugh2:

[Yurt]

like shooting fish in a barrel.

like I said... you insult me, I am gonna insult you. and your inability to avoid throwing childish hissy fits is absolutely proof that you lied about being a lawyer.:laugh2:

so a man of God is going to call me a christ killer to "insult" me? are you sick? dude, do you even realize what an ass you have made out of yourself? would people from your church approve of your message?

you don't think lawyers throw hissy fits (not that i did)...you're an even bigger idiot than i realized...i saw one lawyer in court two weeks ago nearly melt down, got all red faced, the judge had to tell him to "cool it" thought i was laugh out loud.

[red states rule]

so a man of God is going to call me a christ killer to "insult" me? are you sick? dude, do you even realize what an ass you have made out of yourself? would people from your church approve of your message?

you don't think lawyers throw hissy fits (not that i did)...you're an even bigger idiot than i realized...i saw one lawyer in court two weeks ago nearly melt down, got all red faced, the judge had to tell him to "cool it" thought i was laugh out loud.

Yurt, he is a lose cause. I would love to publish his posts in his Church bulletin and see the reaction of the congregation

MFM would be red faced and would quietly slip out the back door

[Yurt]

Yurt, he is a lose cause. I would love to publicsh his posts in his Church bulletin and se the reaction of the congregation

MFMF would be red faced and would quietly slip out the back door

i don't think he even goes to church...he thinks its funny to tell me I killed part of the God head...as part of his "shooting fish in a barrel" insult game....

[retiredman]

so a man of God is going to call me a christ killer to "insult" me? are you sick? dude, do you even realize what an ass you have made out of yourself? would people from your church approve of your message?

you don't think lawyers throw hissy fits (not that i did)...you're an even bigger idiot than i realized...i saw one lawyer in court two weeks ago nearly melt down, got all red faced, the judge had to tell him to "cool it" thought i was laugh out loud.

The members of my church have no input or right to approve what I write on the internet under a screen name.

And I know that lawyers get angry. I was raised by a very good one...but I never saw him lose his cool and composure over such inconsequential shit as you melt down over. You act like a teenaged girl... But giving you the benefit of the doubt, I am sure from your perspective as a lowly file clerk, you did think it was funny. A lawyer you ain't, that's for sure.

[red states rule]

The members of my church have no input or right to approve what I write on the internet under a screen name.

And I know that lawyers get angry. I was raised by a very good one...but I never saw him lose his cool and composure over such inconsequential shit as you melt down over. You act like a teenaged girl... But giving you the benefit of the doubt, I am sure from your perspective as a lowly file clerk, you did think it was funny. A lawyer you ain't, that's for sure.

But it would be a treat to let them read what you post here Mr preacher, and watch their reaction

[retiredman]

again...both of you.... if you would be interested in abandoning personal invective and insults as a discussion technique and, instead, discuss issues of significance without the mudslinging, I would love to participate with you.

[retiredman]

But it would be a treat to let them read what you post here Mr preacher, and watch their reaction

how would you plan on watching their reaction?

and are you threatening to do so?

[Yurt]

The members of my church have no input or right to approve what I write on the internet under a screen name.

And I know that lawyers get angry. I was raised by a very good one...but I never saw him lose his cool and composure over such inconsequential shit as you melt down over. You act like a teenaged girl... But giving you the benefit of the doubt, I am sure from your perspective as a lowly file clerk, you did think it was funny. A lawyer you ain't, that's for sure.

kindly show where I melted down? you're the one who throws cursing hissy fits, not me....

see the difference btwn you and me is i don't go around bragging about what i do, whereas you do...

you've lost any chance that i will respect anything you say, even if it is about the bible, again.

your loss. God sees past your screenname

[red states rule]

how would you plan on watching their reaction?

and are you threatening to do so?

I am courious if your fellow Chuch goers are psycopathes like you, or real Christians who would be embarrassed by your hate filled racist rants

[Yurt]

again...both of you.... if you would be interested in abandoning personal invective and insults as a discussion technique and, instead, discuss issues of significance without the mudslinging, I would love to participate with you.

i have tried this route with you before and got burned for it....you call me a christkiller and then give me an olive branch? you're sick in the head

[Kathianne]

The members of my church have no input or right to approve what I write on the internet under a screen name.

And I know that lawyers get angry. I was raised by a very good one...but I never saw him lose his cool and composure over such inconsequential shit as you melt down over. You act like a teenaged girl... But giving you the benefit of the doubt, I am sure from your perspective as a lowly file clerk, you did think it was funny. A lawyer you ain't, that's for sure.

So, you are not your father's son? You certainly lose your cool with inconsequential shit, evidenced by this thread.

[retiredman]

i have tried this route with you before and got burned for it....you call me a christkiller and then give me an olive branch? you're sick in the head


and your hands are soooo clean, aren't they? you haven't said anything insulting to me at all. Why I swear, you are just a guiltless being.... radiant, almost in your kindness and perfection!

you kick me in the shin...I kick you in the balls... don't act like I am the only one kicking.

really, "counselor"....grow up.

[red states rule]

and your hands are soooo clean, aren't they? you haven't said anything insulting to me at all. Why I swear, you are just a guiltless being.... radiant, almost in your kindness and perfection!

you kick me in the shin...I kick you in the balls... don't act like I am the only one kicking.

really, "counselor"....grow up.

Ah, anoither great entry for the Church bulletin

[glockmail]

let the man make his own decisions...you have made yours.
I'm sure that he'll make the right decision. :coffee:

[retiredman]

I'm sure that he'll make the right decision. :coffee:
we both can hope so