Govt. plans to cut Army war tours

[LiberalNation]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080405/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_iraq;_ylt=Ag68vKCxXnZmMQqiMlRee2as0NUE

WASHINGTON - The Bush administration plans to announce next week that U.S. soldiers' combat tours will be reduced from 15 months to 12 months in Iraq and Afghanistan beginning later this summer, The Associated Press has learned.

The decision, expected to get final, formal approval in the days ahead, comes as Gen. David Petraeus, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, prepares to deliver a progress report to Congress next week on the improved security situation there. He is also expected to make recommendations for future troop levels.

A senior administration official said Friday that plans are to deploy soldiers for 12 months, then give them 12 months rest time at home. Exactly which units would be affected is not yet clear. The official spoke on condition of anonymity ahead of the announcement.

The move to shorter deployments has been pushed by Gen. George Casey, Army chief of staff, as a way to reduce the strain on troops battered by long and repeated tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. But that goal has been hindered by the ongoing security demands in Iraq.

Officials have been publicly tightlipped in recent days about the move to reduce the tours. Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Friday he expected a decision by President Bush "fairly soon" on the Army's proposal. But he also cautioned that cutting troops' time on the battlefront will impose limits on what the military can do in the future.

"So I think the bottom line is, we're all still looking at that. But I think we'll have a better idea of what we think we can do, what we ought to do, in the fairly near future," Gates told reporters Friday.

[Pale Rider]

They better not... if they're planning to invade Afghanistan and Pakistan. They better start the draft. There won't be a single tank or troop left not committed in the middle east. Sounds like a good time for the twenty million illegal aliens to take the south west back. Hell, we wouldn't be able to defend ourselves.

And what was this other thing I just heard today... that over 1,000 Iraqi troops have defected or ran from the fight in Basra? Oh yeah... they're trained and loyal all right. THEY NEVER WILL BE! FUCK! We need to just get the HELL OTTA THERE!

There's only one good way to deal with terrorists in my opinion... and it's called GLOBAL THERMONUCLEAR MISSILE.

[rppearso]

What will happen is we will loose the war. The government does not have the back bone to draft or to implement the use of national assets (we dont even need nukes if we unleashed the full fury of the military weapons arsonal). If congressmen are not willing to loose there jobs over this war we will loose the war because the american people do not support this war, this is a pet war supported only by the military itself and select members of the government. The people are the ones paying for it because while the congress does not have the backbone to draft (because the public backlash would be great) they also do not have the back bone to pull the plug on the funding in order to end the war financially and any soldiers that loose there lives due to lack of equipment or support, all of there blood will be on the presidents hands and there coleuges who support the war not on the people of this nation. But that dident happen, congress rolled over for the presidnet and now you will see a nation wide resession because of the billions of dollars continuing to be spent on the war, there was a reason the people kicked the republicans out of the congress and that is why cindy sheehan sold the ranch and gave up because whats the point the congress is not the voice of the people right now. We are a sinking ship, when the government acts independantly of its people and spending is out of control that is a recipie for disaster.

[Kathianne]

What will happen is we will loose the war. The government does not have the back bone to draft or to implement the use of national assets (we dont even need nukes if we unleashed the full fury of the military weapons arsonal). If congressmen are not willing to loose there jobs over this war we will loose the war because the american people do not support this war, this is a pet war supported only by the military itself and select members of the government. The people are the ones paying for it because while the congress does not have the backbone to draft (because the public backlash would be great) they also do not have the back bone to pull the plug on the funding in order to end the war financially and any soldiers that loose there lives due to lack of equipment or support, all of there blood will be on the presidents hands and there coleuges who support the war not on the people of this nation.

What makes you think the military supports this war, more than any other? Why do you think a draft would prove government commitment? What is with the idea that congresspeople should be losing their jobs over the war? Pet war? As opposed to what kind of war? So do you want a draft or pulling of funding? Oh, it's SO hard to figure out. :laugh2:

[DragonStryk72]

What makes you think the military supports this war, more than any other? Why do you think a draft would prove government commitment? What is with the idea that congresspeople should be losing their jobs over the war? Pet war? As opposed to what kind of war? So do you want a draft or pulling of funding? Oh, it's SO hard to figure out. :laugh2:

Well then there's those stray wars that just show up on your door one day, and they're all skin and bones, so you give them some scraps and clean water, and before you know it, they're there every day, waiting for the chow.

[rppearso]

What makes you think the military supports this war, more than any other? Why do you think a draft would prove government commitment? What is with the idea that congresspeople should be losing their jobs over the war? Pet war? As opposed to what kind of war? So do you want a draft or pulling of funding? Oh, it's SO hard to figure out. :laugh2:

I dident think there was anything confusing about it, yes congressmen should not be reelected if they are doing stuff that the people that they represent dont like, thats the whole point of having a representitive democracy. There is a reason that the congress is democraticly controled and its becuase of this war and the out of control spending but congress did not do what the people expected of them, so if they are going to support the war by continuing to fund it they ought to support the draft as well, its almost like they will hang there butts out a little bit because the executive branch bullyed them but they wont go all the way because they know that if peoples sons are being involuntarily subjected to military servitude there butts will go from the hot sauna to the fire and you will see a full blown repeat of vietnam. The state of affairs in this nation is riding a fine line right now and politicians are being extra careful of what they say (like economic down turn instead of saying resession which is what we are going into).

The reason I say the military supports this war is because people are re-enlisting, no one should be re-enlisting unless they support the war. Also just this forum full of military hardliners shows how much the military supports this war, if it were split down the middle my reputation would not be -4000, people would be saying yea F**K Bush and F**K this war but that is not even close to the sentiment in any military forums I visited. After a while you can always catch hardliners in there flawed logic and it usually results in inflamitory remarks with no substance to what you said thats because to reply to the post whould show that your opinion is screwed up.

[DragonStryk72]

What will happen is we will lose the war. The government does not have the backbone to draft or to implement the use of national assets (we don't even need nukes if we unleashed the full fury of the military weapons arsenal).

Okay, first, this is a paragraph, used in literate society to denote the closing of a thought before proceeding to the next, most often used for purposes of making what you write easier to read.

Now, as to the opening point itself. You are right, if we do not rip our heads out of our ass, we are going to lose. Now, one of the weapons that are just sitting in our arsenal is the COBRA vehicles, which have a fortified undercarriage that would protect from roadside bombs. It seems key to me that we should be spending out for the weapon that will counter one of the most oft used tactics the enemy has.

If congressmen are not willing to lose their jobs over this war we will lose the war, because the american people do not support this war. This is a pet war supported only by the military itself and select members of the government. The people are the ones paying for it, because while the congress does not have the backbone to draft, because the public backlash would be great. They also do not have the backbone to pull the plug on the funding, in order to end the war financially.

A Draft is actually not within the government's power, even though they've technically broken that by using the Stop-Loss clause in military contracts.We already won the war, we're in a police action now, which is not something you can be stop-lossed by. This, however, is not stopping the government from doing it.

This war is actually not supported by the military, that is where you are mistaken in your assumption. The military is commanded by the president, the Commander-In-Chief of the Armed Forces, and so, the generals, all of them, answer to the president directly. They do not have the right to argue with him, or to criticize him in public, those rights having been signed over in their contracts. Technically, enlisted aren't supposed to do it either, but they're not top generals, so they tend to be allowed to get away with it on off-duty time. The generals are merely doing the best that they are able to, with what little they are being given.

Any soldiers that lose their lives due to lack of equipment or support, all of their blood will be on the president's hands, and their colleagues who support the war, not on the people of this nation.

However, that didn't happen. Congress rolled over for the president, and now, you will see a nation-wide recession, because of the billions of dollars continuing to be spent on the war. There was a reason the people kicked the republicans out of the congress, and that is why Cindy Sheehan sold the ranch and gave up, because whats the point. The congress is not the voice of the people right now. We are a sinking ship, when the government acts independently of its people, and spending is out of control. That is a recipe for disaster.

Honestly, one war, even one that's lasted as long as this one has, is only a minor part of the crap-tastic economic situation we're in. Heck Vietnam lasted twice as long, and we weren't nearly so bad off economically.

I do get what you mean, though. Our representatives no longer represent us, and so, in Jefferson's manner of saying it, what we require is a revolution of the people. The question is: What would be the new guards for our future society, and what shape shall that revolution take?


Now, as to your final grade, I started at 100, and took off a single point for each misspelling, which I've marked in red, and each grammatical error, which I've marked in green. I also deducted ten points off the top, due to the lack of appropriate paragraphs in your writing. With a final score of 49, I, unfortunately, am going to have to give you an F for this assignment. Hopefully, you will pay more attention to detail on your next assignment.

[DragonStryk72]

I dident think there was anything confusing about it, yes congressmen should not be reelected if they are doing stuff that the people that they represent dont like, thats the whole point of having a representitive democracy. There is a reason that the congress is democraticly controled and its becuase of this war and the out of control spending but congress did not do what the people expected of them, so if they are going to support the war by continuing to fund it they ought to support the draft as well, its almost like they will hang there butts out a little bit because the executive branch bullyed them but they wont go all the way because they know that if peoples sons are being involuntarily subjected to military servitude there butts will go from the hot sauna to the fire and you will see a full blown repeat of vietnam. The state of affairs in this nation is riding a fine line right now and politicians are being extra careful of what they say (like economic down turn instead of saying resession which is what we are going into).

The reason I say the military supports this war is because people are re-enlisting, no one should be re-enlisting unless they support the war. Also just this forum full of military hardliners shows how much the military supports this war, if it were split down the middle my reputation would not be -4000, people would be saying yea F**K Bush and F**K this war but that is not even close to the sentiment in any military forums I visited. After a while you can always catch hardliners in there flawed logic and it usually results in inflamitory remarks with no substance to what you said thats because to reply to the post whould show that your opinion is screwed up.

RP, they've been deficit spending at the federal level now for about fourteen years, that hasn't changed in a long time.

People are re-enlisting for the same reason people stay at boring jobs, it isn't because they love it, it is because they have a family in need of support. For some, it is a comfortable fit for them, the military ranking and discipline, the life of a soldier, knowing that they'll be taken care of.For others, there is a matter of duty, they have done this for a long time, and they know that someone has to be the soldier. Still others re-enlist for more mercenary reasons, with a $25000 re-enlistment bonus, enough to pay out any credit card debts they may have racked up, put a down payment on a house, or buy a brand new car. Others, still, re-enlistment because they have come to see the other people in their unit as family, and do not feel as though they can abandon them in the Iraq war, and then, there is the final group, who see a glimmer of hope that we will help these people, that have this faith in the American people to see what needs to be done, and start doing it.

It isn't military hardliners, it is your slapping of the military, due to your personal bad experience. People have been nice to you, myself included, while you insulted our careers, and the duty we performed, again, and again, again. Look back over those posts, the first ones, before your rep went into the toilet, and you'll see it. You painted us all with the same brush, insulted us, our honor, and our commitment. How can you possibly wonder how it is that you ended up where you're at? How can you expect you keep having a normal conversation with a person, when you never back up a single one of your posts, making grand generalizations, and insulting them?

It is you that has created this bed, and it is you who lies in it, and I pray that there is enough strength within you to realize that, and begin to become something grander than what you have been. If you would simply start seeing the individuals as being individuals, and that your experience is not the experience of all, or even the vast majority of the military, RP. Stop painting everyone with a wide brush, and stop seeing insult where none exists.

[rppearso]

RP, they've been deficit spending at the federal level now for about fourteen years, that hasn't changed in a long time.

People are re-enlisting for the same reason people stay at boring jobs, it isn't because they love it, it is because they have a family in need of support. For some, it is a comfortable fit for them, the military ranking and discipline, the life of a soldier, knowing that they'll be taken care of.For others, there is a matter of duty, they have done this for a long time, and they know that someone has to be the soldier. Still others re-enlist for more mercenary reasons, with a $25000 re-enlistment bonus, enough to pay out any credit card debts they may have racked up, put a down payment on a house, or buy a brand new car. Others, still, re-enlistment because they have come to see the other people in their unit as family, and do not feel as though they can abandon them in the Iraq war, and then, there is the final group, who see a glimmer of hope that we will help these people, that have this faith in the American people to see what needs to be done, and start doing it.

It isn't military hardliners, it is your slapping of the military, due to your personal bad experience. People have been nice to you, myself included, while you insulted our careers, and the duty we performed, again, and again, again. Look back over those posts, the first ones, before your rep went into the toilet, and you'll see it. You painted us all with the same brush, insulted us, our honor, and our commitment. How can you possibly wonder how it is that you ended up where you're at? How can you expect you keep having a normal conversation with a person, when you never back up a single one of your posts, making grand generalizations, and insulting them?

It is you that has created this bed, and it is you who lies in it, and I pray that there is enough strength within you to realize that, and begin to become something grander than what you have been. If you would simply start seeing the individuals as being individuals, and that your experience is not the experience of all, or even the vast majority of the military, RP. Stop painting everyone with a wide brush, and stop seeing insult where none exists.

The reason I make the broad strokes is because basic is common to everyone in the military and its a bunch of BS, if my bad experence had been specific to some unit I was in that would be a different story. I understand what you say when you explain why people re-enlist but if they truely wanted an end to the war they wouldent because without anyone to fight it there is no war. I think I may see a revolution in my life time (or the end of the world), people dont care about the shady politics until it is affecting there quality of life and this nation is going down the toilet, you cant get people to revolt until they are hungry and cant do anything, the problem is the only people that will be able to revolt effectivly are thoes that prepared before hand (weapons, ammo, food, etc) otherwise what are you going to revolt with rocks. We are going to see some interesting times comming in the next 20 years.

[DragonStryk72]

The reason I make the broad strokes is because basic is common to everyone in the military and its a bunch of BS, if my bad experence had been specific to some unit I was in that would be a different story. I understand what you say when you explain why people re-enlist but if they truely wanted an end to the war they wouldent because without anyone to fight it there is no war. I think I may see a revolution in my life time (or the end of the world), people dont care about the shady politics until it is affecting there quality of life and this nation is going down the toilet, you cant get people to revolt until they are hungry and cant do anything, the problem is the only people that will be able to revolt effectivly are thoes that prepared before hand (weapons, ammo, food, etc) otherwise what are you going to revolt with rocks. We are going to see some interesting times comming in the next 20 years.

The problem with that painting with broad strokes, instead of putting it as what was wrong with your experience in particular, is that you obviously offend the people you are trying to have a civil discourse with. Yes, bad shit happens in the military, but until the people involved learn to fight it properly, then there's no chance of that ever changing.

Except, we would have no army left, and do you really think the people who are against us are going to pass that kind of chance by? they want an end to the war, but there aren't that many options for them.

Here would be the course of events: They would all start getting out, the government would step up stop-lossing to include most, if not all, rates, which of course would lead to an exceedingly pissed off military, then, when that doesn't work, their will a draft run, and, pretty much, by the end, we would be starting over as a country, with hundreds of thousands, if not millions dead before the end.

This can only end with the citizenry, it is our duty, not he military's, to police the government. We are too often letting rhetoric and empty buzzwords decide our politics, and that needs to go away. We need to start looking to other answers, and those answers are in the one place we have not looked: Ourselves.

[Nukeman]

The problem with that painting with broad strokes, instead of putting it as what was wrong with your experience in particular, is that you obviously offend the people you are trying to have a civil discourse with. Yes, bad shit happens in the military, but until the people involved learn to fight it properly, then there's no chance of that ever changing.

Except, we would have no army left, and do you really think the people who are against us are going to pass that kind of chance by? they want an end to the war, but there aren't that many options for them.

Here would be the course of events: They would all start getting out, the government would step up stop-lossing to include most, if not all, rates, which of course would lead to an exceedingly pissed off military, then, when that doesn't work, their will a draft run, and, pretty much, by the end, we would be starting over as a country, with hundreds of thousands, if not millions dead before the end.

This can only end with the citizenry, it is our duty, not he military's, to police the government. We are too often letting rhetoric and empty buzzwords decide our politics, and that needs to go away. We need to start looking to other answers, and those answers are in the one place we have not looked: Ourselves.
I totally agree with this!!! We as a country need to stand for change in our government and it does need to come from the citizens of this great country not the military.

Do you actually expect someone like RP to take responsibility for himself??? Come on, he has blamed everything bad in his life on others and that my friend is the crux of our problem with the US right now! Everyone (well not everyone) wants to blame all their woes and problems on others with NO personal responsibility.

We have had this discussion on here before and there are some here who think others should not be held accountable for their own actions. We shouldn't blame illegal aliens for coming here, they only want a better life. we shouldn't blame the drug dealers they are only doing what they think will get them by. We shouldn't blame welfare users/enablers because they just don't know any better...... etc......etc....... The list could go on forever with what some on here make excesses for, Yet never once do they mention PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

[rppearso]

I totally agree with this!!! We as a country need to stand for change in our government and it does need to come from the citizens of this great country not the military.

Do you actually expect someone like RP to take responsibility for himself??? Come on, he has blamed everything bad in his life on others and that my friend is the crux of our problem with the US right now! Everyone (well not everyone) wants to blame all their woes and problems on others with NO personal responsibility.

We have had this discussion on here before and there are some here who think others should not be held accountable for their own actions. We shouldn't blame illegal aliens for coming here, they only want a better life. we shouldn't blame the drug dealers they are only doing what they think will get them by. We shouldn't blame welfare users/enablers because they just don't know any better...... etc......etc....... The list could go on forever with what some on here make excesses for, Yet never once do they mention PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

Yea nuke man, im so irrisponsible thats why I have a great marriage, nice house and an engineering degree from one of the best schools in the nation and a good engineering job, all that must have happened from my gross negligence and irrisponsibility. The bottom line is I have 0 tolerance to BS, and thats what 70% of the miltiary is, 95% of basic was BS and I just flat out will not tolerate it, I also do not tolerate power trips, if you want to get up in my face because you out rank me and I did not address you in a manner pleasing to you, you can go hump a pole because I dont give 2 shits about your rank when it comes to power trip issues, I care about getting useful work done, and personal and group accomplishment, now if someone above me makes a call I will role with it unless I can prove its unsafe or wont work but if your a nasty a**hole about it dont expect any cooperation out of me and dont expect me to stick around because at that point I dont care if the building falls apart after I walk out the door. Life is short and if you want to tolerate that behavior in your life thats fine, but to call me dishonorable and irrisponsible for it because it makes you look like an idiot.

Now regarding this nation, I will agree there are alot of lazy bums in this country and people dont want to go out and make there own life and that is a problem, people are not of the revolt mentality because we live in a land of milk and honey and there is really nothing to be pissed about ...... yet. Do you think the revolutionary war military would have tolerated this behavior out of there leadership or even within there own ranks.