F-15 pilot sues boeing

[rppearso]

http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,164551,00.html?ESRC=dod.nl

A Missouri Air National Guard pilot filed suit this week in U.S. District Court, claiming Boeing Corp. "should have known" the F-15C Eagle that broke in half during a training mission last November was "defective and unreasonably dangerous."

Maj. Stephen Stilwell suffered severe injuries when he bailed out of the F-15C over rural Dent County, in south-central Missouri, on Nov. 2.

A native of Chillicothe, Mo., Stilwell, 37, was based with the 131st Fighter Wing at Lambert-St. Louis International Airport.

After the accident, the Air Force grounded more than 300 older model F-15s after finding cracks in some planes and parts that didn't meet safety specifications in others.



I suffered from a busted anckle and phycological trama in boot camp can I sue the army. This pilot is a joke, why doesnt he sue the air force for failure to maintain there equipment, its not boeing fault that the air force fails to maintain there aircraft. You can claim what ever hocus pocus you want but the bottom line is the military is not doing the very expensive major overhalls that are required of these aircraft as they age so they are falling apart, just because they change the oil (so to speak) does not mean they will run forever.

[DragonStryk72]

http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,164551,00.html?ESRC=dod.nl

A Missouri Air National Guard pilot filed suit this week in U.S. District Court, claiming Boeing Corp. "should have known" the F-15C Eagle that broke in half during a training mission last November was "defective and unreasonably dangerous."

Maj. Stephen Stilwell suffered severe injuries when he bailed out of the F-15C over rural Dent County, in south-central Missouri, on Nov. 2.

A native of Chillicothe, Mo., Stilwell, 37, was based with the 131st Fighter Wing at Lambert-St. Louis International Airport.

After the accident, the Air Force grounded more than 300 older model F-15s after finding cracks in some planes and parts that didn't meet safety specifications in others.


I suffered from a busted anckle and phycological trama in boot camp can I sue the army. This pilot is a joke, why doesnt he sue the air force for failure to maintain there equipment, its not boeing fault that the air force fails to maintain there aircraft. You can claim what ever hocus pocus you want but the bottom line is the military is not doing the very expensive major overhalls that are required of these aircraft as they age so they are falling apart, just because they change the oil (so to speak) does not mean they will run forever.

Because Boeing built the shitty plane, RP, those fractures only occur in those aircraft due to two things: shitty worksmanship, and gross criminal negligence as it regards to safety standard. This was an oops I tripped, this was the god damn plane breaking apart in air for no good reason.

Imagine, RP, if you car fell apart while you were driving away from the auto dealer, and you got seriously and permanently injured from it. what it was your fault for not having advanced technical degrees? No, of course not, the manufacturer put a death trap on the road. Now let's put that F-15 in combat, but with payload, and see where the crash goes, maybe then it will matter to you.

[rppearso]

Because Boeing built the shitty plane, RP, those fractures only occur in those aircraft due to two things: shitty worksmanship, and gross criminal negligence as it regards to safety standard. This was an oops I tripped, this was the god damn plane breaking apart in air for no good reason.

Imagine, RP, if you car fell apart while you were driving away from the auto dealer, and you got seriously and permanently injured from it. what it was your fault for not having advanced technical degrees? No, of course not, the manufacturer put a death trap on the road. Now let's put that F-15 in combat, but with payload, and see where the crash goes, maybe then it will matter to you.

Whatever dude, if you want to be apart of the lawsuit happy culture thats fine, but it disolves your credibility down to a hill of beans. If this plane was right off the assembly line I would agree but this plane has likely been in service for 20-30 years and if I drove my truck for 30 years and all I did was put gas in it and change the oil I would consider myself blessed to have it run for so long. The military does a slack ass job of maintaining its equipment properly, all they do is the superficial stuff, there are numerous articles about the air forces aging planes and there unwillingness to perform major maintence (because its expensive boo hoo).

http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/issues/2007/january/agingaircraft.htm

[AFbombloader]

Whatever dude, if you want to be apart of the lawsuit happy culture thats fine, but it disolves your credibility down to a hill of beans. If this plane was right off the assembly line I would agree but this plane has likely been in service for 20-30 years and if I drove my truck for 30 years and all I did was put gas in it and change the oil I would consider myself blessed to have it run for so long. The military does a slack ass job of maintaining its equipment properly, all they do is the superficial stuff, there are numerous articles about the air forces aging planes and there unwillingness to perform major maintence (because its expensive boo hoo).

http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/issues/2007/january/agingaircraft.htm

You are a moron if you don't think that we (the Air Force) don't do major overhauls of all our aircraft. We do scheduled phase inspections at specified flight hours(500, 1000, 2000) and they differ in the amount of maintenance done at each phase time. This plane did have all of its inspections and there was no shoddy maintenance. If there was, you would be posting about the enlisted aircraft mechanics that were in trouble for it. Give me a break! This was something that we had no instructions to inspect and had no previous malfunctions to make up a search for this issue. Slack ass job, FUCK YOU! Come over here to Korea and see just how superficial the maintenance I do is. You don't have a fuckin' clue!

AF:salute:

[Sitarro]

:salute:
Because Boeing built the shitty plane, RP, those fractures only occur in those aircraft due to two things: shitty worksmanship, and gross criminal negligence as it regards to safety standard. This was an oops I tripped, this was the god damn plane breaking apart in air for no good reason.


The F-15C model, built by McDonnell Douglas, not Boeing, was introduced in 1979. The Air National Guard gets them after The Air Force has flown them a great deal and retire them to the guard, this aircraft flew many hours experiencing major stresses before this happened. To say that the F-15C is a shitty plane built by Boeing is silly on numerous levels.



Imagine, RP, if you car fell apart while you were driving away from the auto dealer, and you got seriously and permanently injured from it. what it was your fault for not having advanced technical degrees? No, of course not, the manufacturer put a death trap on the road. Now let's put that F-15 in combat, but with payload, and see where the crash goes, maybe then it will matter to you.

This pilot would probably disagree with your assessment of the F-15. An airplane isn't a car and a car isn't put through the extreme stresses that a fighter aircraft is put through....... poor analogy. This lawsuit is bullshit. The only reason he is suing Boeing is because of Boeing's merger with McDonnell Douglas in 1997.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpwyU30g7rI

GO AIR FORCE!:salute::salute::salute:

[rppearso]

You are a moron if you don't think that we (the Air Force) don't do major overhauls of all our aircraft. We do scheduled phase inspections at specified flight hours(500, 1000, 2000) and they differ in the amount of maintenance done at each phase time. This plane did have all of its inspections and there was no shoddy maintenance. If there was, you would be posting about the enlisted aircraft mechanics that were in trouble for it. Give me a break! This was something that we had no instructions to inspect and had no previous malfunctions to make up a search for this issue. Slack ass job, FUCK YOU! Come over here to Korea and see just how superficial the maintenance I do is. You don't have a fuckin' clue!

AF:salute:

If they had adaquate maintence or were retired when they were suppost to be this would not have happened, end of story. I talked to people in the guard that maintained black hawks and I would hardly call there knowlage of every wire and bolt in that air craft stellar, anything even somewhat complicated is sent out to the manufacturer because they were not capable of fixing it them selves like the turbine engine on the black hawk which is fine as long as its actually happening and your not just going down a maintence list. I also talked to people who went to AIT for maintenece MOS's and they had the most retarded stuff to say like how the civilian trainers were casual with them so they could teach them complicated stuff, you dont learn complicated stuff being at parade rest against a wall, and they were put off that the civilians that were teaching them were trying to befriend them.

You ought to thank your lucky behind companies like boeing exist so you are not fighting with a pocket knife. So if you want to get inflamitory and spout of swear words whatever but it does not change the truth of the matter.

[Gaffer]

Its' obvious rps incomplete time in the military has made him an expert on aircraft and maintenance just as it made him an expert on the military.

[Mr. P]

Its' obvious rps incomplete time in the military has made him an expert on aircraft and maintenance just as it made him an expert on the military.

Yeah but...he "talked to people who went to AIT for maintenece MOS's and they had the most retarded stuff to say".[sic]

I'm waiting for him to put something on the table he knows (anything) about. :laugh2:

[Sitarro]

You ought to thank your lucky behind companies like boeing exist so you are not fighting with a pocket knife. So if you want to get inflamitory and spout of swear words whatever but it does not change the truth of the matter.

Again, the F-15 was built by McDonnell Douglas not Boeing. It's a bit ridiculous for you to lecture someone who is actually serving in the Air Force and obviously knows what the fuck he is talking about.... I would think an apology to AFbombloader is warranted.

[rppearso]

Again, the F-15 was built by McDonnell Douglas not Boeing. It's a bit ridiculous for you to lecture someone who is actually serving in the Air Force and obviously knows what the fuck he is talking about.... I would think an apology to AFbombloader is warranted.

Its not even close to warranted, without any contractor (boeing, douglas, or whoever) they would not have squat, and why was this plane not retired after it expired its service life regardless of manufacterer, I dont need to have been in the air force to know they are f**king up. AFbombloader may do an awsome job and I never stated otherwise which is why I dont think I should appologize, but the air force as a whole is f**king up big time. I have noticed a trend that people in the military will stick up for others simply becasue they are also in the military even if there are lots of f**k ups until it goes through a bearucratic convoluded process to pin the scape goat then that one guy get crusified. I dont work that way, I call things based on reality, I dont need an indepth bearucretic review to know that planes are falling apart because the air force is f**king up.

[Yurt]

i'm interested to see if boeing claims immunity.

[AFbombloader]

Its not even close to warranted, without any contractor (boeing, douglas, or whoever) they would not have squat, and why was this plane not retired after it expired its service life regardless of manufacterer, I dont need to have been in the air force to know they are f**king up. AFbombloader may do an awsome job and I never stated otherwise which is why I dont think I should appologize, but the air force as a whole is f**king up big time. I have noticed a trend that people in the military will stick up for others simply becasue they are also in the military even if there are lots of f**k ups until it goes through a bearucratic convoluded process to pin the scape goat then that one guy get crusified. I dont work that way, I call things based on reality, I dont need an indepth bearucretic review to know that planes are falling apart because the air force is f**king up.

First, no apology needed. I would not expect it or accept it.
Second, show me where the Air Force is fucking up. Please! One issue with this aircraft since it was designed in the late 60's and all of a sudden we are crappy maintainers and we are fucking up. This plane has flown far beyond what it was intended to, I'll give you that. Why you ask? Ask congress and all the people who don't fund us enough to buy the planesw, parts, materials, etc. that we need. We have had to fly all of our airframes longer than designed since the 60's, all because of money. We do a great job of maintaining old planes. We keep them safe and lethal. fuck anyone who says different.
Third, yes we stick up for each other, because we are a family. sometimes we fight and bicker like brothers and sisters, but we are a family and you just don't get it. Most people don't.
Last, I usually do not curse in these forums, but you directly said the Air Force was doing a bad job, and by that you accused me. So I am very justified in being angry in my retort. I will do it again if I so feel.

AF:salute:

[rppearso]

First, no apology needed. I would not expect it or accept it.
Second, show me where the Air Force is fucking up. Please! One issue with this aircraft since it was designed in the late 60's and all of a sudden we are crappy maintainers and we are fucking up. This plane has flown far beyond what it was intended to, I'll give you that. Why you ask? Ask congress and all the people who don't fund us enough to buy the planesw, parts, materials, etc. that we need. We have had to fly all of our airframes longer than designed since the 60's, all because of money. We do a great job of maintaining old planes. We keep them safe and lethal. fuck anyone who says different.
Third, yes we stick up for each other, because we are a family. sometimes we fight and bicker like brothers and sisters, but we are a family and you just don't get it. Most people don't.
Last, I usually do not curse in these forums, but you directly said the Air Force was doing a bad job, and by that you accused me. So I am very justified in being angry in my retort. I will do it again if I so feel.

AF:salute:

How is it boeings fault that congress did not appropriate adaquate funds to build new planes and the air force failed to retire the air craft. I see that as being the air forces fault, you may have done everything you could have (although I still question the technical ability of someone who went through x weeks of training and is now all of a sudden an air craft mechanic fully certified to work on the most complex air craft ever built in human history right out of high school but that is another discussion, I would not have trusted some of these people I seen comming out of AIT to work on my car let alone an F-15) but the air force did not, they are flying these things way beyond there serviceable life.

[Abbey Marie]

Rppearso: Your relentless anger at all things military, is probably covering up some other deep-seated psycho/emotional issue. You should uncover it, so you can move on with your life.

-I am not a doctor, I just play one on TV. :salute:

[Mr. P]

Rppearso: Your relentless anger at all things military, is probably covering up some other deep-seated psycho/emotional issue. You should uncover it, so you can move on with your life.

-I am not a doctor, I just play one on TV. :salute:

:trolls:

[rppearso]

Rppearso: Your relentless anger at all things military, is probably covering up some other deep-seated psycho/emotional issue. You should uncover it, so you can move on with your life.

-I am not a doctor, I just play one on TV. :salute:

My hatred for the military is due to the fact that they funnel people through brutal fraternity like hazing and then try to claim they are honorable. Its the second biggest scam in this nation (the first being the creation of the federal reserve and the meeting of bankers on jeckle island, that coupled with getting rid of the gold standard). Anyone who condones basic training as valid and honorable themselves lacks honor. I dont care if you want to be a mindless schmuck and engage in frat hazing thats your choise but dont tell me about how honorable you are because you look like an idiot.

[Mr. P]

My hatred for the military is due to the fact that they funnel people through brutal fraternity like hazing and then try to claim they are honorable. Its the second biggest scam in this nation (the first being the creation of the federal reserve and the meeting of bankers on jeckle island, that coupled with getting rid of the gold standard). Anyone who condones basic training as valid and honorable themselves lacks honor. I dont care if you want to be a mindless schmuck and engage in frat hazing thats your choise but dont tell me about how honorable you are because you look like an idiot.

:bsflag:

You have no clue. How many "civilians" do you know who are soldiers? It's a different way of life, one you just couldn't deal with. Well, sorry about that but that's the way it is and for good reason. Your lil whinny ass should be glad it is and that real men step-up and deal with it. :fu:

[Said1]

My hatred for the military is due to the fact that they funnel people through brutal fraternity like hazing and then try to claim they are honorable. Its the second biggest scam in this nation (the first being the creation of the federal reserve and the meeting of bankers on jeckle island, that coupled with getting rid of the gold standard). Anyone who condones basic training as valid and honorable themselves lacks honor. I dont care if you want to be a mindless schmuck and engage in frat hazing thats your choise but dont tell me about how honorable you are because you look like an idiot.

I gotta agree with Dr. Abbey on this one. You say you have nothing to prove, yet you debate with emotions and have a clear desire to be right ie looking for validation. Why do you insist on carrying that chip on your shoulder?

Moreover, considering what you are preparing for, I would think basic training would be easy compaired to the real thing. But that's just me. :shrug:

[rppearso]

I gotta agree with Dr. Abbey on this one. You say you have nothing to prove, yet you debate with emotions and have a clear desire to be right ie looking for validation. Why do you insist on carrying that chip on your shoulder?

Moreover, considering what you are preparing for, I would think basic training would be easy compaired to the real thing. But that's just me. :shrug:

That is a good point, I guess if someone could give me a good reason other than all the nebulus reasons given I could accept it. The real problem I have is not just a chip on my shoulder but with relationships amongst people in my church, I believe military training is contrary to christian values and anyone who condones such behavior I have a hard time taking seriously which in turn affects relationships with others. If I had a clear understanding of how this behavior could be considered honorable in the truest sense of the word it would help me but its pretty darn tough from a christian perspective to justify behavior in basic training, it would be like me trying to justify why it was ok for me to rob a bank. If your not a christian this is not even relavant to you and I expect the usually flames, tactless gestures and ignorant comments but basic training is the exact opposite of new testimate teaching in almost every sense. There are no exceptions made for the military in the bible and any church that takes that position is diluding the truth, I dont even know how christian chaplins can take themselves seriously. I must be missing something but the man up you little p***y is not what im missing. I dont know how not tolerating frat hazing is not being a "real man", I guess enstine was not a real man or issac newton

[Abbey Marie]

Rppearso, sorry if I missed this, but are you a Quaker?

[rppearso]

Rppearso, sorry if I missed this, but are you a Quaker?

No im penacostal, I think I may try to find army chaplins online to ask these questions, I enjoy online debate but it is very difficult to find people who are fun to debate with especially on military issues. I find that the military does such a good job at assemilating people that if you not pro-join/stay in the military and dont mindlessly agree with everything they do then your a 2 bit schmuck. No where on any forum or legal advice forum has anyone been able to validate basic training treatment other than to make vauge statements like "your a whiny baby" or whatever.

[Mr. P]

No im penacostal, I think I may try to find army chaplins online to ask these questions, I enjoy online debate but it is very difficult to find people who are fun to debate with especially on military issues. I find that the military does such a good job at assemilating people that if you not pro-join/stay in the military and dont mindlessly agree with everything they do then your a 2 bit schmuck. No where on any forum or legal advice forum has anyone been able to validate basic training treatment other than to make vauge statements like "your a whiny baby" or whatever.

:bsflag:

You don't even have a clue what the word "debate" means.

Confusing it with masturbate perhaps? Hey, is the wife givin it up more now days? Yeah, I saw your post about your sex life..Disgusting that you would post such a thing, but then so are you.

You are a sad FUCK and poor excuse for a man!

[rppearso]

:bsflag:

You don't even have a clue what the word "debate" means.

Confusing it with masturbate perhaps? Hey, is the wife givin it up more now days? Yeah, I saw your post about your sex life..Disgusting that you would post such a thing, but then so are you.

You are a sad FUCK and poor excuse for a man!

Ok whatever, im not sure what your refering to or even how this even sort of relates to debating policy. I may have posted stuff in a marriage form quite a while back when we were having problems so we were look for help through all sorts of avenues, im not sure whats "disgusting" about getting marriage help, which is totally unrelated nor would I even want to discuss such issues on this type of forum with such calious and tactless people. Im also not sure what BS you are raising. You seem like just an instigator rather than wanting to debate. Military training and forign policy are lagit topics for debate. Im also not sure how this relates to boeing?

[Abbey Marie]

:bsflag:

You don't even have a clue what the word "debate" means.

Confusing it with masturbate perhaps? Hey, is the wife givin it up more now days? Yeah, I saw your post about your sex life..Disgusting that you would post such a thing, but then so are you.

You are a sad FUCK and poor excuse for a man!

Mr. P, are you sure it's rppearso you mean? I remember some gross stuff a while ago, but I thought it was before he joined. Or I may have missed it. :dunno:

[Mr. P]

Mr. P, are you sure it's rppearso you mean? I remember some gross stuff a while ago, but I thought it was before he joined. Or I may have missed it. :dunno:

I'm sure it's him. It's a post on another site and it's not a marriage form as he claims.

[Abbey Marie]

I'm sure it's him. It's a post on another site and it's not a marriage form as he claims.

Gotcha.

[Pale Rider]

Rppearso: Your relentless anger at all things military, is probably covering up some other deep-seated psycho/emotional issue. You should uncover it, so you can move on with your life.

-I am not a doctor, I just play one on TV. :salute:

No kidding... so he's a fuck up and the military tossed him. Now he's mad at everything military. Gee... what a surprise.

I spent eight years active duty in the Air Force, 6 1/2 of which was out on the flight line in hands on maintenance of F-16's. There was NOTHING lack luster about the job. There was no "that's good enough." It was either done right or not at all. I personally signed off red X's which grounded the air craft. If anyone thinks I would have signed off that red X without knowing full well every single tiny detail had been addressed, rp, you're fucking crazy. I've never seen a MORE THOROUGH organization than the Air Force. Nothing has even come close. So to blame them for not properly maintaining an air craft is just pure bull shit.

What I find curious, me being an air craft avionics, flight controls and instrumentation specialist, is was this pilot flying the air craft outside of it's flight parameters? Well?

[Sitarro]

No kidding... so he's a fuck up and the military tossed him. Now he's mad at everything military. Gee... what a surprise.

I spent eight years active duty in the Air Force, 6 1/2 of which was out on the flight line in hands on maintenance of F-16's. There was NOTHING lack luster about the job. There was no "that's good enough." It was either done right or not at all. I personally signed off red X's which grounded the air craft. If anyone thinks I would have signed off that red X without knowing full well every single tiny detail had been addressed, rp, you're fucking crazy. I've never seen a MORE THOROUGH organization than the Air Force. Nothing has even come close. So to blame them for not properly maintaining an air craft is just pure bull shit.

What I find curious, me being an air craft avionics, flight controls and instrumentation specialist, is was this pilot flying the air craft outside of it's flight parameters? Well?

My dad, being a former Air Force pilot, was made fun of by civilian counterparts. They claimed he was too anal, didn't need to worry so much. He was flying corporate jets at the time and I remember him getting to the airport an hour and a half before take off. I have never seen any pilot perform a preflight routine as thorough as his was...... I saw him find a cotter pin that wasn't bent right up inside the nose gear doors one time. His professionalism, learned in the Air Force, was always an inspiration for me.

His last years in the Air Force were spent flying corporate style jet aircraft and inspecting crashes. His first questions would have been for the pilot, just as you said Pale. The public doesn't know that there are parameters and depending on the pilot, these can be broken very quickly in the wrong situations. This being a National Guard pilot would indicate less flight time than an active Air Force pilot and could create problems with less talented people.

[Mr. P]

No kidding... so he's a fuck up and the military tossed him. Now he's mad at everything military. Gee... what a surprise.

I spent eight years active duty in the Air Force, 6 1/2 of which was out on the flight line in hands on maintenance of F-16's. There was NOTHING lack luster about the job. There was no "that's good enough." It was either done right or not at all. I personally signed off red X's which grounded the air craft. If anyone thinks I would have signed off that red X without knowing full well every single tiny detail had been addressed, rp, you're fucking crazy. I've never seen a MORE THOROUGH organization than the Air Force. Nothing has even come close. So to blame them for not properly maintaining an air craft is just pure bull shit.

What I find curious, me being an air craft avionics, flight controls and instrumentation specialist, is was this pilot flying the air craft outside of it's flight parameters? Well?

We (The Army) also used the "RED X". I can say with 100% certainty no pilot worth a shit would fly an aircraft that had a "RED X" that wasn't taken care of and no maintenance folks would ever try to put such an aircraft in service.

[AFbombloader]

How is it boeings fault that congress did not appropriate adaquate funds to build new planes and the air force failed to retire the air craft. I see that as being the air forces fault, you may have done everything you could have (although I still question the technical ability of someone who went through x weeks of training and is now all of a sudden an air craft mechanic fully certified to work on the most complex air craft ever built in human history right out of high school but that is another discussion, I would not have trusted some of these people I seen comming out of AIT to work on my car let alone an F-15) but the air force did not, they are flying these things way beyond there serviceable life.

Where did I say anything about Boeing? I didn't, so reference the correct post. It is not the Air Forces fault that congress did not give us the funding. Wasn't there a thread a few weeks ago about the budget the Air Force was asking for and how peopke thought they were askinig for too much? We have been asking, and still continue to ask. The AF wants to byt almost 400 F-22 so we can retire the F-15's, but we aren't getting the funds. Where does the blame lie?

You have no idea what kind of training we go through here in the AF. The young man/woman who goes through x weeks of college level education, they do get college credit for it (certified by the the same people who certified Duke and Florida State) are not alone in their working on the ACFT. I watch over anyone who is not cleared to work alone, and I sign off the work they do. Are you going to question someone with almost 20 years of aircraft mechanics experience on 6 different airframes? Who has beed certified on over 15 different munitions? My Colonel and Chief Master SGT trust me, so I don't give a shit if some idiot who couldn't hack the Army National Guard questions me.

Again, you don't have a clue what you are talking about. Go to an oil threrad and maybe we will listen, because you claim to work there and may have some form or expertise. You don't belong in the military thread, you just don't.

AF:salute:

[rppearso]

Where did I say anything about Boeing? I didn't, so reference the correct post. It is not the Air Forces fault that congress did not give us the funding. Wasn't there a thread a few weeks ago about the budget the Air Force was asking for and how peopke thought they were askinig for too much? We have been asking, and still continue to ask. The AF wants to byt almost 400 F-22 so we can retire the F-15's, but we aren't getting the funds. Where does the blame lie?

You have no idea what kind of training we go through here in the AF. The young man/woman who goes through x weeks of college level education, they do get college credit for it (certified by the the same people who certified Duke and Florida State) are not alone in their working on the ACFT. I watch over anyone who is not cleared to work alone, and I sign off the work they do. Are you going to question someone with almost 20 years of aircraft mechanics experience on 6 different airframes? Who has beed certified on over 15 different munitions? My Colonel and Chief Master SGT trust me, so I don't give a shit if some idiot who couldn't hack the Army National Guard questions me.

Again, you don't have a clue what you are talking about. Go to an oil threrad and maybe we will listen, because you claim to work there and may have some form or expertise. You don't belong in the military thread, you just don't.

AF:salute:

Just because congress does not authorize the funds does not mean the planes should not be retired thoes 2 things are not synonomus. You just have less planes. You will see the reality of the cost overruns in iraq one of 2 ways, you will have less planes because you retire them properly or they will start falling apart mid flight and people will die. When you really get down to things its not complicated, people want to make it emotional because they are all bent out of shape that they cant have there cake and eat it too.

[AFbombloader]

Just because congress does not authorize the funds does not mean the planes should not be retired thoes 2 things are not synonomus. You just have less planes. You will see the reality of the cost overruns in iraq one of 2 ways, you will have less planes because you retire them properly or they will start falling apart mid flight and people will die. When you really get down to things its not complicated, people want to make it emotional because they are all bent out of shape that they cant have there cake and eat it too.

If we did as you say and retired them when you say we should, then there would be a thread about how the AF cannot do its mission because we don't have any planes. Smarter men than you and me have decided these aircraft are airworthy and I will go with their decision.

[rppearso]

If we did as you say and retired them when you say we should, then there would be a thread about how the AF cannot do its mission because we don't have any planes. Smarter men than you and me have decided these aircraft are airworthy and I will go with their decision.

These "smarter men/women" you speak of are the ones this guy should be suing not Boeing.

[Mr. P]

These "smarter men/women" you speak of are the ones this guy should be suing not Boeing.

And those would be the smarter men/women that you continually claim ARE smarter than everyone else, right? :laugh2:

[rppearso]

And those would be the smarter men/women that you continually claim ARE smarter than everyone else, right? :laugh2:

I dont even know what that means nor does it contribute anything meaningful or interesting to the discussion.

[Mr. P]

I dont even know what that means nor does it contribute anything meaningful or interesting to the discussion.

That's because you can't follow yer own BULLSHIT. IDIOT! :laugh2:

[Nukeman]

That's because you can't follow yer own BULLSHIT. IDIOT! :laugh2:
Mr. P you gotta realize that with his "superior" intellect he can't take the time to keep all his lies in order......

Would you like for me to let him know what it is he is missing?????




Hey, sorry we didn't get the chance for a beer in Atlanta! Maybe next time!

[Mr. P]

Mr. P you gotta realize that with his "superior" intellect he can't take the time to keep all his lies in order......

Would you like for me to let him know what it is he is missing?????




Hey, sorry we didn't get the chance for a beer in Atlanta! Maybe next time!

Feel free to let him know.

We'll get that beer time, I've been slammed with the work I mentioned. Working until 8 or 9p most nights and some every weekend. It's amazing how much one bad employee can screw things up in 9 weeks!

:cheers2: