Catholics open $50 million cathedral

[gabosaurus]

I've been reading about how the Catholic Church is strapped for cash. Especially after settling several of the priest molestation cases. The church has been consolidating dioceses and closing schools.

Then today, I was listening to how the Catholic Church had opened a $50 million house of worship in Houston. It opened with an elaborate and extremely expensive ceremony.

Isn't this sort of a mixed message to send out? "We're close to insolvency, so bear with us. Oh, by the way, we spent $50 million to build a cathedral."

It's no wonder many people are growing suspicious of organized religion.

[Yurt]

i believe the dioceses are somewhat indepedent with finances, so one may have been close to insolvency and houston may not....

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,


1. Thats Great News!
2. Nice to see The Catholic Church , growing!:salute:


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[avatar4321]

good for them. id love to see it.

[diuretic]

I've been reading about how the Catholic Church is strapped for cash. Especially after settling several of the priest molestation cases. The church has been consolidating dioceses and closing schools.

Then today, I was listening to how the Catholic Church had opened a $50 million house of worship in Houston. It opened with an elaborate and extremely expensive ceremony.

Isn't this sort of a mixed message to send out? "We're close to insolvency, so bear with us. Oh, by the way, we spent $50 million to build a cathedral."

It's no wonder many people are growing suspicious of organized religion.

As already stated, some diocese might be finding it tough but bloody bad luck for them, if they hadn't protected paedophiles they wouldn't be looking at bankruptcy. Maybe they could do a Bear Stearns and ask for a takeover by the Anglicans or whatever the US equivalent is (Episcopalian?).

Anyway, they have a lot of stuff in the Vatican City. Wander around St Peter's and you won't believe it. And of course there's the Sistine Chapel. Nope, they won't go bust any time soon.

[Sitarro]

It is a spectacular mix of modern architecture and 10 million dollars worth of mostly traditional Italian sculpture and stained glass inside..... seats 1200. The Co-Cathedral represents a Archdiocese of Houston and Galveston which has a population of over one and a half million members...... there is obviously plenty of cash in the 6th largest metropolitan area in the U.S...... Houston alone is then 4th largest city.

Compared to Lakewood Church (Joel Osteen's 16,000 seat former basketball arena)some blocks away, it is very inexpensive and much more of an actual church rather than a conveyor belt of cash for Joel. Haven't heard what was paid for the actual arena but they put an admitted to 98 million dollars into renovation. There are also many Baptist, Mosques, and alternative churches that dwarf this Co-Cathedral in the Houston area.

This link tells about the significance of this Co-Cathedral. I plan to take my 85 year old Mother their next week for Mass.

http://www.diogh.org/cocathedral/dedication/index.htm

[Psychoblues]

$50,000,000,000? $50 million? That's barely the cost of an average expressway bridge. Must be a fairly low key project?

[avatar4321]

$50,000,000,000? $50 million? That's barely the cost of an average expressway bridge. Must be a fairly low key project?

that would be $50,000,000. you added too many zeros.

and my guess is it will be quite beautiful even if it is a fairly simple project.

[DragonStryk72]

i believe the dioceses are somewhat indepedent with finances, so one may have been close to insolvency and houston may not....

But, um, wouldn't the christian thing to do be to, um, maybe put the $50 mil toward the floundering diocese?

[gabosaurus]

But, um, wouldn't the christian thing to do be to, um, maybe put the $50 mil toward the floundering diocese?

Of course not! If they put that kind of money toward general expenses, it would cut down the church's leverage in negotiating with victims of priest abuse.
But I am sure it is a very beautiful and inspiring structure. I bet those people who lost their jobs due to budget cuts in the Houston diocese will enjoy spending their now-free time there.

[Psychoblues]

Oooops!!!!!! What are the true numbers? I agree. The beauty will be stunning.







that would be $50,000,000. you added too many zeros.

and my guess is it will be quite beautiful even if it is a fairly simple project.

Skin deep? Such is the reputation of beauty.

[My Winter Storm]

The Catholic Church has never been strapped for cash, and I certainly wouldn't believe them if they claimed they were. They get millions each year.

If they were strapped for cash, it'd likely be because they are fast losing members of the Church, and if that is the case, they should take a good hard look at themselves and figure out why - that is, if they are smart enough.

[Hobbit]

It's the California and New England area dioceses that have taken the biggest hits in the priest scandals, and simply transferring money between dioceses isn't as easy as it sounds. I'm also sure this cathedral was in the works and had money earmarked for it years ago, before it could have done any good toward legal fees in the first place.

[theHawk]

I've been reading about how the Catholic Church is strapped for cash. Especially after settling several of the priest molestation cases. The church has been consolidating dioceses and closing schools.

Then today, I was listening to how the Catholic Church had opened a $50 million house of worship in Houston. It opened with an elaborate and extremely expensive ceremony.

Isn't this sort of a mixed message to send out? "We're close to insolvency, so bear with us. Oh, by the way, we spent $50 million to build a cathedral."

It's no wonder many people are growing suspicious of organized religion.


Good for them, its their money they can spend it how they want.

Why would anyone be "suspicious" of organized religion building new churches? Is there something wrong with that?

[theHawk]

Of course not! If they put that kind of money toward general expenses, it would cut down the church's leverage in negotiating with victims of priest abuse.
But I am sure it is a very beautiful and inspiring structure. I bet those people who lost their jobs due to budget cuts in the Houston diocese will enjoy spending their now-free time there.

Do you propose that public schools not build any new schools either? They after all, are responsible for more sexual abuse of children than the Catholic church ten fold.

[Abbey Marie]

What business is it of anyone outside of these parishoners, how big or expensive a church is built?

[Yurt]

But, um, wouldn't the christian thing to do be to, um, maybe put the $50 mil toward the floundering diocese?


Of course not! If they put that kind of money toward general expenses, it would cut down the church's leverage in negotiating with victims of priest abuse.
But I am sure it is a very beautiful and inspiring structure. I bet those people who lost their jobs due to budget cuts in the Houston diocese will enjoy spending their now-free time there.

do you guys have a problem with building churches? states, cities get sued all the time, but they still make sure the city runs, adding new infrastructure and what not. is your problem with the fact that it is a religious group?

[DragonStryk72]

do you guys have a problem with building churches? states, cities get sued all the time, but they still make sure the city runs, adding new infrastructure and what not. is your problem with the fact that it is a religious group?

None, but you can build churches for less than $50 mil, Yurt. I know, it's a shock and a scandal, but you really can do it. I've even heard tell of churches built for less than $1 million.

[Yurt]

None, but you can build churches for less than $50 mil, Yurt. I know, it's a shock and a scandal, but you really can do it. I've even heard tell of churches built for less than $1 million.

i know, my church does it all the time... the catholics build churches their way, whats it to you?

[manu1959]

http://www.archgh.org/cocathedral/tour/index.htm

cool church.....

funded in 00-04 via parishioner donations....

We want to thank all the generous donors who contributed to the 2000-2004 Celebrating Our Faith Capital Campaign which helped to fund the structure of the co-cathedral, and donors to the current capital campaign, A Great Cathedral for a Great City, which will fund the interior liturgical furnishings of our glorious new co-cathedral.

[Said1]

While I'm not 100% sure, I'm fairly certain the money from those settlements and legal fees came from an insurance company:


Ecclestiastical Insurance

The leading insurer of Anglican churches in the UK
Insurance for your church, church hall or church-related charity
Ecclesiastical has a unique record of service to the Anglican Church. From our small beginnings in 1887, we are now the leading insurer of Anglican churches in the UK, insuring around 17,000 churches nationwide.
Our expertise in this specialised area of church insurance means we can offer comprehensive insurance to protect your church, church hall or church-related charity.
Parishguard – Anglican church insurance
Our comprehensive church insurance policy includes many features as standard for which some insurers charge an additional premium. Cover includes property damage, loss of income following an insured event, theft by Church officials, public liability, employers' liability and more.

http://www.ecclesiastical.com/ourproducts/insurance/churchinsurance/index.aspx


I know it 'says the 'Anglican Church", but I've seen checks come in from them for the Catholic Diocese - legal fees.

[manu1959]

While I'm not 100% sure, I'm fairly certain the money from those settlements and legal fees came from an insurance company:
http://www.ecclesiastical.com/ourproducts/insurance/churchinsurance/index.aspx
I know it 'says the 'Anglican Church", but I've seen checks come in from them for the Catholic Diocese - legal fees.

yep.....their general liability policy would cover the attorney's fees and the pay outs to the parties stipulated in the judgements.....unless it pierced the limits of their policy in which case the vatican is on the hook....but i would imagine they are indemnified by each local parish......so each local parish would have to raise the money to pay the overage.....

[DragonStryk72]

i know, my church does it all the time... the catholics build churches their way, whats it to you?

You really don't get the point of being 'christian', do you? you know, helping out those less fortunate and all that? I know it's a big concept, but here we go. Instead of spending $50 million on a building, they could have built one for a couple of hundred grand, still made it look nice, and then donated the money to other diocese, you know, the ones needing help, and thus act in a christian manner, rather than simply slap up the palacial cathedral.

[Sitarro]

You really don't get the point of being 'christian', do you? you know, helping out those less fortunate and all that? I know it's a big concept, but here we go. Instead of spending $50 million on a building, they could have built one for a couple of hundred grand, still made it look nice, and then donated the money to other diocese, you know, the ones needing help, and thus act in a christian manner, rather than simply slap up the palacial cathedral.

Such incredible bullshit........ socialist, pretend "Christian" crap. I've been told by "Christians" that we Catholics aren't, so I guess we will spend our money the way we want...... call that rip off Joel Osteen, he's got very deep tax free pockets and is really big on the whole "Christian" thing as long as it brings him hundreds of millions.

I'm so very bored with the constant criticism of the Catholic Church, the one Jesus Christ himself commanded Peter to build. This Cathedral employed a great many artisans and craftsmen to build. It is a piece of Architectural art. A General Steel Airplane Hanger might work for Southern Baptist to pass a plate around in to gather money for their star pastor but it's not good enough for the Catholics of Houston that wanted to build a work of art to honor their GOD.

[PostmodernProphet]

What business is it of anyone outside of these parishoners, how big or expensive a church is built?

God's business......

[Noir]

Bah, hypocrisy, could this $50 million not have been better spent on charity? was it not Jesus who said that your body is the church, and that you do not need temples to worship...?
what really gets my goat is how the catholic church released their new 7 deadly sins, one of which was "6.Excessive wealth" though it seems this does not apply to the pope...cus you know where all equal in the eyes of the Lord just some are more equal than others *glomp*

[Sitarro]

Bah, hypocrisy, could this $50 million not have been better spent on charity? was it not Jesus who said that your body is the church, and that you do not need temples to worship...?
what really gets my goat is how the catholic church released their new 7 deadly sins, one of which was "6.Excessive wealth" though it seems this does not apply to the pope...cus you know where all equal in the eyes of the Lord just some are more equal than others *glomp*

Why not talk to your clowns with the Democrat and Republican party, more the democrats who are spending millions hopping on chartered jets going back and forth saying the same bullshit over and over for the last year? Obamessiah scored more than the cost of this Cathedral last month to blow on insulting television ads and rubber chicken dinners. In the age of communication we live in, the shortage of fuel and the big worries over climate change being caused by mankind, why are these imbeciles flying around, across the country on aircraft burning 1200 gallons of jet fuel an hour. The incredible waste, mostly by a couple of socialist hypocrites, is what is wrong with this country today.

That Cathedral is not only a work of art payed for by private donations, it will be there for over a hundred years for the one and a half million Catholics of the Houston area to use along with generations after them.

On top of it all it is non of your business what this group spends it's money on, I can tear down any expenditure that any of you assholes find sacred, name the bullshit church....... The Trinity Church of Obamessiah and the asshole Racist "Reverend" Wright and the asswipe congregation that attends that shit hole? How much do you think that bunch of dimwits paid for that evil house of "worship" in Chicago? This joke is blowing 1.5 million on a house and 10 million in credit as a reward for the screaming lunacy and hatred that came out of that evil shit's mouth for the last 35 years, where is your outrage? How much did that business of money gathering and hate speech cost, the building is pretty expensive looking full of Television lighting, sound equipment and cameras to record the vile coming out of this black demon's mouth. 100 million, 200 million? Who knows? Couldn't they spend that money more wisely taking care of the downtrodden in their own neighborhood?

The city of Houston, like every other major city across America, has spent a BILLION dollars on playpens for billionaire owners to bring their multimillionaire assholes playing kids games and what does anyone get back from it. Minute Maid Park.... 250 million, Toyota Center..... 202 million, Reliant Stadium........ 450 MILLION, 82 million on extra restrooms!!!!!!! And who knows how much will be spent on the new soccer arena for all of the illegals in the area to go and cheer for the Mexican team....... whatever it is it will make it over a BILLION on playpens for 4 sports. At least the Pro Golf Association plays on private golf courses and contributes hundreds of million dollars to local charities, they don't hold cities ransom.

So fuck off with your criticism of the Catholic Church, they have taken care of infinitely more poor than any other organization and continues to do so.

[glockmail]

Bah, hypocrisy, could this $50 million not have been better spent on charity? was it not Jesus who said that your body is the church, and that you do not need temples to worship...?

Jesus also said 'teach a man to fish instead of giving him a fish'. The craftsman who worked on this building and its artwork surely learned a lot, and will undoubtedly use this project to further their personal careers. If that money was simply given away to the poor, in 10 years most of them would still be poor.

[glockmail]

You really don't get the point of being 'christian', do you? you know, helping out those less fortunate and all that? I know it's a big concept, but here we go. Instead of spending $50 million on a building, they could have built one for a couple of hundred grand, still made it look nice, and then donated the money to other diocese, you know, the ones needing help, and thus act in a christian manner, rather than simply slap up the palacial cathedral.
My parish just spent $12 million on a church this size, and its spartan. Plus we have lower labor and materials costs. Sorry, but you can't just build a steel box with industrial lighting and used folding chairs and call it a church.

[theHawk]

Bah, hypocrisy, could this $50 million not have been better spent on charity? was it not Jesus who said that your body is the church, and that you do not need temples to worship...?
what really gets my goat is how the catholic church released their new 7 deadly sins, one of which was "6.Excessive wealth" though it seems this does not apply to the pope...cus you know where all equal in the eyes of the Lord just some are more equal than others *glomp*

I think the church does plenty of charity, and building a big new church in America's fourth largest city will help bring in more people, and more donations will flow in on a weekly basis.


BTW, here's the website for it and some pics.

http://archgh.org/cocathedral/dedication/history-main.htm

[DragonStryk72]

Such incredible bullshit........ socialist, pretend "Christian" crap. I've been told by "Christians" that we Catholics aren't, so I guess we will spend our money the way we want...... call that rip off Joel Osteen, he's got very deep tax free pockets and is really big on the whole "Christian" thing as long as it brings him hundreds of millions.

I'm so very bored with the constant criticism of the Catholic Church, the one Jesus Christ himself commanded Peter to build. This Cathedral employed a great many artisans and craftsmen to build. It is a piece of Architectural art. A General Steel Airplane Hanger might work for Southern Baptist to pass a plate around in to gather money for their star pastor but it's not good enough for the Catholics of Houston that wanted to build a work of art to honor their GOD.

Okay, so somehow, because I think that, to be more christ like, and to show the kinds of virtues that he did, the church should maybe be more concerned with helping out the diocese that are hurting right now, rather than build an enormous cathedral, I'm wrong. Do you really think God cares about a building? He doesn't, not did he even want a church to begin with "Build me no places of worship". Forgot that line did we? Yes, there is building a church, but obviously Jesus' first concern would be to build only Notre Dame level cathedrals, because that's what he really came here for.

And yes, ignoring the suffering of those around you to build something "pretty" for your own ego, is not a Christian moral. What about the katrina survivors that are still in houston? Do you know how much help that kind of money could have been. But now, obviously, God will be much happier letting the meek die off, and get a pretty building.

[Yurt]

You really don't get the point of being 'christian', do you? you know, helping out those less fortunate and all that? I know it's a big concept, but here we go. Instead of spending $50 million on a building, they could have built one for a couple of hundred grand, still made it look nice, and then donated the money to other diocese, you know, the ones needing help, and thus act in a christian manner, rather than simply slap up the palacial cathedral.

you are judging me, you don't know anything about me, so keep your judgments to yourself. you don't know the first thing about helping people. building this church could very well have helped thousands (contractors, sub-contractors, laborers...). i'm not going to judge the building of a church, for all i know this church will bring many more to Christ than simply giving 50 mill to the diocese that committed a wrong. for you to suggest otherwise is arrogant.

your glib remarks show an abundance of ignorance as you are so quick to judge others without truly understanding what is going on. your post is hypocrisy. the diocese with the money problem will come through if that is meant to be. from your posts it appears you don't know the first thing about "christian manner" so you might want to hone up on it.

[PostmodernProphet]

My parish just spent $12 million on a church this size, and its spartan. Plus we have lower labor and materials costs. Sorry, but you can't just build a steel box with industrial lighting and used folding chairs and call it a church.

There is a church in town that was feeling a bit cramped for space....they were holding three services a Sunday, two in the morning, one at night to fit everyone in......

the question came up about building a new church......

they decided instead to buy an old hospital of 100,000 square feet (a brand new one was being built for $32 million)....they bought it for $1.2 million and started renting at at low rates to non-profit groups......they now have 26 tenants including a free health clinic, food pantry, a restaurant that serves meals for whatever you can afford to donate, etc.......

here's a picture of it.....

http://www.coahm.org/images/building_smmr.jpg


....and yes, it's the church I go to......five years later we still meet in our old church building with three services to fit everyone in.....

[glockmail]

There is a church in town that was feeling a bit cramped for space....they were holding three services a Sunday, two in the morning, one at night to fit everyone in......

the question came up about building a new church......

they decided instead to buy an old hospital of 100,000 square feet (a brand new one was being built for $32 million)....they bought it for $1.2 million and started renting at at low rates to non-profit groups......they now have 26 tenants including a free health clinic, food pantry, a restaurant that serves meals for whatever you can afford to donate, etc.......

here's a picture of it.....

http://www.coahm.org/images/building_smmr.jpg


....and yes, it's the church I go to......


That's a great deal and use for a recycled building.

[theHawk]

There is a church in town that was feeling a bit cramped for space....they were holding three services a Sunday, two in the morning, one at night to fit everyone in......

the question came up about building a new church......

they decided instead to buy an old hospital of 100,000 square feet (a brand new one was being built for $32 million)....they bought it for $1.2 million and started renting at at low rates to non-profit groups......they now have 26 tenants including a free health clinic, food pantry, a restaurant that serves meals for whatever you can afford to donate, etc.......

here's a picture of it.....

http://www.coahm.org/images/building_smmr.jpg


....and yes, it's the church I go to......five years later we still meet in our old church building with three services to fit everyone in.....

Proof that private charity does the job better than government.

[gabosaurus]

The powers that be in the Houston Diocese must love the irony.
Less than a month after they opened a $50 million cathedral, the diocese announced that they were closing another school and laying off all the employees.
Perhaps they are saving money to fly in the Pope.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5729344.html

[manu1959]

You really don't get the point of being 'christian', do you? you know, helping out those less fortunate and all that? I know it's a big concept, but here we go. Instead of spending $50 million on a building, they could have built one for a couple of hundred grand, still made it look nice, and then donated the money to other diocese, you know, the ones needing help, and thus act in a christian manner, rather than simply slap up the palacial cathedral.

so you believe that you can build a church for $200,000 ..... what would it be made of and how big would it be....