Judge kicks whites out of court

[Yurt]

Judge admits mistake in kicking whites out of court

An Atlanta, Georgia, judge who ordered white lawyers out of his courtroom so he could lecture African-American defendants called that decision a "mistake" Tuesday night.

In retrospect, it was a mistake," Judge Marvin Arrington told CNN. "Because my sheriff said to me, 'Judge, that message should be given to everybody' -- 'Don't violate the law, make something out of yourself, go to school, find a role model, somebody that will help you advance your life.'"

Arrington, who is African-American, is a judge in Fulton County, Georgia, which includes the city of Atlanta.

He said he got fed up seeing a parade of young black defendants shuffle into his courtroom and decided to address them one day last week -- out of the earshot of white lawyers.

"I came out and saw the defendants, and it was about 99.9 percent Afro-Americans," Arrington told CNN affiliate WSB-TV of Atlanta, "and at some point in time, I excused some lawyers -- most of them white -- and said to the young people in here, 'What in the world are you doing with your lives?'"

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/04/02/judge.whites.out/index.html

the double standard of "what is acceptable/forgivable" has gotten way out of hand....can you imagine if a white judge kicked out black lawyers to talk to white defendants...

[Hagbard Celine]

I don't know. I think it was kinda melodramatic for him to excuse the attorneys while he lectured the hoods, but I don't think it was necessarily "wrong." I think he meant well. He has a point you know.
I think more Blacks in positions of authority and success should speak-out to the lesser Black community. You've got to admit that the there are some serious problems in the low-income Black community.

[Abbey Marie]

The speech is ok, but why did he have to kick out the white people to make it?

[Hagbard Celine]

The speech is ok, but why did he have to kick out the white people to make it?

I think you're looking at it all wrong. It's not an "injustice" against white people. He excused them because they were successful. He didn't think they needed to hear what he was telling the hoods. He had a message he wanted to personally deliver to these people so he excused anybody who didn't need to hear it. Melodramatic? Yes. Racially unjust? Not at all. If I were you guys I'd take the racial sensitivity down a few pegs.

[Little-Acorn]

If some of the lawyers had been black, would he have kicked them out anyway?

BTW, isn't there some part of the Constitution that says the accused have the right to counsel in a trial? Didn't the judge just violate that?

And the biggest unanswered question: The judge said that nearly all the perps he sees in his courtroom, are black. Are the Fulton County police so flamingly bigoted, that they enjoy arresting black people for the hell of it, but NEVER arrest white people? And this bigotry has NEVER been addressed in how many years?

Or could it be that there's a devastating crime problem among blacks but far less among whites, and the police are just arresting people who commit crimes, regardless of skin color?

[Hagbard Celine]

If some of the lawyers had been black, would he have kicked them out anyway?

BTW, isn't there some part of the Constitution that says the accused have the right to counsel in a trial? Didn't the judge just violate that?

And the biggest unanswered question: The judge said that nearly all the perps he sees in his courtroom, are black. Are the Fulton County police so flamingly bigoted, that they enjoy arresting black people for the hell of it, but NEVER arrest white people? And this bigotry has NEVER been addressed in how many years?

Or could it be that there's a devastating crime problem among blacks but far less among whites, and the police are just arresting people who commit crimes, regardless of skin color?

If you knew anything about the Atlanta population you'd know how ridiculous your post is. This has nothing to do with racism against whites. Absolutely nothing. It has everything to do with a judge being frustrated with what he sees as a problem within the community he came from and wanting to talk some sense into the people causing it.
He excused the attorneys because he wanted to make it clear who his message was directed towards.

[Yurt]

I think you're looking at it all wrong. It's not an "injustice" against white people. He excused them because they were successful. He didn't think they needed to hear what he was telling the hoods. He had a message he wanted to personally deliver to these people so he excused anybody who didn't need to hear it. Melodramatic? Yes. Racially unjust? Not at all. If I were you guys I'd take the racial sensitivity down a few pegs.

and there is no problem with crime in low income white 'hoods'? if the judge was in a 'white' area and 99.9% of the defendants are white, you think it ok if he were to kick out their black lawyers to talk to these poor white people who also need a positive role model?

your posts here in this thread show some bigotry hagbard. its as if only blacks need positive role models... had not the 99.9% of blacks that had been going in front of the judge for all those years had him as positive role model, why the need to kick out whitey? are you saying blacks have no positive role models? bill cosby tried, but was roundly chastised

[Hagbard Celine]

and there is no problem with crime in low income white 'hoods'? if the judge was in a 'white' area and 99.9% of the defendants are white, you think it ok if he were to kick out their black lawyers to talk to these poor white people who also need a positive role model?

your posts here in this thread show some bigotry hagbard. its as if only blacks need positive role models... had not the 99.9% of blacks that had been going in front of the judge for all those years had him as positive role model, why the need to kick out whitey? are you saying blacks have no positive role models? bill cosby tried, but was roundly chastised

If the majority of the hoods coming through this judge's courtroom were white you'd have a point. Instead, the majority are black--as are the majority nation-wide. As someone who has worked hard and made something good out of himself, this judge is rightfully worried and frustrated about the state of the African American community and I think he did the right thing in trying to talk some sense into these hoods. In addition, he's admitted that he made a judgement mistake when he excused the attorneys and he's going to deliver his message to an open court on Thursday. The guy's a hero imo.
Can you not understand what he was trying to do? His intentions weren't inflammatory in the slightest.

[Little-Acorn]

This has nothing to do with racism against whites.
The title of the thread implied that it did, hence my question.


He excused the attorneys
Again, did he violate the Constitution by doing so?

[Hagbard Celine]

The title of the thread implied that it did, hence my question.


Again, did he violate the Constitution by doing so?

I don't think so. There's nothing in the Constitution that protects hoods from being lectured on common sense every once in a while. They weren't being judged during the judge's diatribe so it's not as if they were being denied representation.

[Little-Acorn]

There's nothing in the Constitution that protects hoods from being lectured on common sense every once in a while.
Please stop changing the subject.

Again, the Constitution requires the accused to have the right to council during trial. Did the judge violate that right by kicking out the hoods' lawyers from the courtroom before the trial concluded?


They weren't being judged during the judge's diatribe
One of your sillier examples of wishful thinking.

[Hagbard Celine]

Please stop changing the subject.

Again, the Constitution requires the accused to have the right to council during trial. Did the judge violate that right by kicking out the hoods' lawyers from the courtroom before the trial concluded?


One of your sillier examples of wishful thinking.

What are you talking about "please stop changing the subject?" You're the one who asked me if he violated the Constitution. I answered "No" and gave you my reason. How did I "change the subject?" Are you schitzophrenic?
Judges see defendants on a case-by-case basis, not all at once. He in no way violated their Constitutional rights by telling them to shape up without their lawyer present.

[Yurt]

If the majority of the hoods coming through this judge's courtroom were white you'd have a point. Instead, the majority are black--as are the majority nation-wide. As someone who has worked hard and made something good out of himself, this judge is rightfully worried and frustrated about the state of the African American community and I think he did the right thing in trying to talk some sense into these hoods. In addition, he's admitted that he made a judgement mistake when he excused the attorneys and he's going to deliver his message to an open court on Thursday. The guy's a hero imo.
Can you not understand what he was trying to do? His intentions weren't inflammatory in the slightest.

they were inflammatory, and i'm sure in some 'hoods' where whites are the vast majority, it will be mostly whites... in fact, the courtroom next to the one i was in this morning had 90% white orangies (defendants in CA), with a couple of mexicans. in this community, that is the norm. so it does in fact happen and i guarantee you that if the judge had kicked out hispanic or black attorneys to talk to the white folk, i would probably have to put up with sharkton roaming my 'hood'

is this another obama....where just because he is black he thinks he is better able to represent [here lecture] someone based solely on their skin color? seems like it and that is racist and bigotted.

[Little-Acorn]

Looks like little haggy is determined to avoid answering the question about a judge denying the accused their right to counsel during trial. Unsurprising from him, I guess.

Anyone else want to take a swing at it? :D

[theHawk]

You've got to admit that the there are some serious problems in the low-income Black community.

Yea, its called liberalism.

[Abbey Marie]

I think you're looking at it all wrong. It's not an "injustice" against white people. He excused them because they were successful. He didn't think they needed to hear what he was telling the hoods. He had a message he wanted to personally deliver to these people so he excused anybody who didn't need to hear it. Melodramatic? Yes. Racially unjust? Not at all. If I were you guys I'd take the racial sensitivity down a few pegs.

I did not claim it was an injustice, I questioned why they were asked to leave. Your opinion is that it was because the white people were successful. However, the judge gave us his reason, and he doesn't mention success:

"I didn't want them to think I was talking down to them; trying to embarrass them or insult them; be derogatory toward them...

The judge has told us that being lectured in front of white people is embarassing. Racial classifications again, and not from "whites".

[Gaffer]

Looks like little haggy is determined to avoid answering the question about a judge denying the accused their right to counsel during trial. Unsurprising from him, I guess.

Anyone else want to take a swing at it? :D

The judge did not deny the prisoners their constitutional rights. They were not in the process of being tried. They were being spoken too. They were not questioned. An attorney was not necessary. The only thing the judge did wrong was to dismiss all the white folk from the court room. He could have made the lecture with everyone present.

[mundame]

I don't know. I think it was kinda melodramatic for him to excuse the attorneys while he lectured the hoods, but I don't think it was necessarily "wrong." I think he meant well. He has a point you know.
I think more Blacks in positions of authority and success should speak-out to the lesser Black community. You've got to admit that the there are some serious problems in the low-income Black community.


That was an interesting event, and I agree with our nice Caveman Hagbard.

In fact, I don't think it was wrong for the judge to kick out the whites, frankly.

Tactful, really.

[Yurt]

That was an interesting event, and I agree with our nice Caveman Hagbard.

In fact, I don't think it was wrong for the judge to kick out the whites, frankly.

Tactful, really.

...and why?

[mundame]

...and why?


Because he was a black lecturing blacks --- it seems tactful to me, anyway. No?

[Yurt]

Because he was a black lecturing blacks --- it seems tactful to me, anyway. No?

maybe you support segregated schools then....

[avatar4321]

I probably would have objected to it. not because i wouldnt want the judge to tell me clients that, but because i dont think the judge should be talking to my clients when im not there. I have an obligation to defend their rights. Yeah this is a basically innocent situation (for a court of law that is). But i dont like the precedent.

[Lizabeth]

Judge admits mistake in kicking whites out of court

An Atlanta, Georgia, judge who ordered white lawyers out of his courtroom so he could lecture African-American defendants called that decision a "mistake" Tuesday night.

In retrospect, it was a mistake," Judge Marvin Arrington told CNN. "Because my sheriff said to me, 'Judge, that message should be given to everybody' -- 'Don't violate the law, make something out of yourself, go to school, find a role model, somebody that will help you advance your life.'"

Arrington, who is African-American, is a judge in Fulton County, Georgia, which includes the city of Atlanta.

He said he got fed up seeing a parade of young black defendants shuffle into his courtroom and decided to address them one day last week -- out of the earshot of white lawyers.

"I came out and saw the defendants, and it was about 99.9 percent Afro-Americans," Arrington told CNN affiliate WSB-TV of Atlanta, "and at some point in time, I excused some lawyers -- most of them white -- and said to the young people in here, 'What in the world are you doing with your lives?'"

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/04/02/judge.whites.out/index.html

the double standard of "what is acceptable/forgivable" has gotten way out of hand....can you imagine if a white judge kicked out black lawyers to talk to white defendants...

Didn't you know blacks are not racist. Only the "typical white person" is racist!:laugh2:

[REDWHITEBLUE2]

maybe the judge listened to one of Racist Reverend Wrights sermons and figured WTF why not kick whitey out Obama does