Parents pick prayer over docs; girl dies

[LiberalNation]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080328/ap_on_re_us/daughter_s_death_prayer;_ylt=At1KzzSawPbaHJ2b2fqCh YJvzwcF


WESTON, Wis. - Police are investigating an 11-year-old girl's death from a treatable form of diabetes after her parents chose to pray for her rather than take her to a doctor. An autopsy showed Madeline Neumann died Sunday of diabetic ketoacidosis, a condition that left too little insulin in her body, Everest Metro Police Chief Dan Vergin said.

She had probably been ill for about a month, suffering symptoms such as nausea, vomiting, excessive thirst, loss of appetite and weakness, the chief said Wednesday, noting that he expects to complete the investigation by Friday and forward the results to the district attorney.

The girl's mother, Leilani Neumann, said that she and her family believe in the Bible and that healing comes from God.


Family members elsewhere called authorities to seek help for the girl.

"My sister-in-law, she's very religious, she believes in faith instead of doctors ...," the girl's aunt told a sheriff's dispatcher Sunday afternoon in a call from California. "And she called my mother-in-law today ... and she explained to us that she believes her daughter's in a coma now and she's relying on faith."

The dispatcher got more information from the caller and asked whether an ambulance should be sent.

"Please," the woman replied. "I mean, she's refusing. She's going to fight it. ... We've been trying to get her to take her to the hospital for a week, a few days now."

[manu1959]

darwins theory and evolution at work.......this should make you happy .... no....

[Missileman]

darwins theory and evolution at work.......this should make you happy .... no....

nm...wrong family

[Hagbard Celine]

It must've been "God's will." :rolleyes::lol:

[avatar4321]

It must've been "God's will." :rolleyes::lol:

You know, Karma's a bi***. becareful what you say and how you treat others.

[bullypulpit]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080328/ap_on_re_us/daughter_s_death_prayer;_ylt=At1KzzSawPbaHJ2b2fqCh YJvzwcF

The rights of parents to their beliefs end when those beliefs become a threat to a child's life. If they want to pray, they can do so, after they've gotten their child appropriate medical treatment.

A two or three day hospital stay to stabilize her blood sugar, and three to four times daily Accuchecks and insulin injections and the kid would still be alive. I hope the court orders mandatory sterilization for the parents.

[MtnBiker]

The rights of parents to their beliefs end when those beliefs become a threat to a child's life. If they want to pray, they can do so, after they've gotten their child appropriate medical treatment.





Kind of like abortion huh?

[diuretic]

Kind of like abortion huh?

Actually no, "abortion" is itself a medical procedure, just like dealing with ketoacidosis is a medical procedure.

[MtnBiker]

abortion is not a threat to a child's life? yeah right :rolleyes:

[LiberalNation]

Praying parents' other 3 kids removed

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080328/ap_on_re_us/daughter_s_death_prayer;_ylt=AgII0KW_MlxWpT7.Crt.7 QVvzwcF

That's good to hear.

but it also said.........


The children removed from the home range in age from 13 to 16 and are expected to return to their parents once an investigation of the girl's death wraps up, Vergin said.

Vergin said his agency's final report will make no recommendations on possible charges against the parents, leaving that up to the district attorney.

"There is no intent. They didn't want their child to die. They thought what they were doing was the right thing," he said. "They believed up to the time she stopped breathing she was going to get better. They just thought it was a spiritual attack. They believed if they prayed enough she would get through it."

[diuretic]

abortion is not a threat to a child's life? yeah right :rolleyes:

As I said, it's a medical procedure. There is no "child" - and remember you used that word, I don't particularly like semantic duels but definitions are important here - there is a foetus. A foetus isn't a child. So there is no threat to a child's life. In the subject matter of the thread a child lost her life allegedly (I'm observing legal niceties) because of her parent's refusal to seek medical treatment for her.

If you're comparing pregnancy termination to allowing a child to die through lack of medical treatment then you seriously need to sit down and reflect on your values.

Remember you brought it up first, don't complain if you're being staked out.

[diuretic]

Praying parents' other 3 kids removed

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080328/ap_on_re_us/daughter_s_death_prayer;_ylt=AgII0KW_MlxWpT7.Crt.7 QVvzwcF

That's good to hear.

but it also said.........

That's fair enough, removing the kids temporarily and conditionally. If the parents are seen to be fit and proper then the kids can go home again.

[MtnBiker]

As I said, it's a medical procedure. There is no "child" - and remember you used that word, I don't particularly like semantic duels but definitions are important here - there is a foetus. A foetus isn't a child. So there is no threat to a child's life. In the subject matter of the thread a child lost her life allegedly (I'm observing legal niceties) because of her parent's refusal to seek medical treatment for her.

If you're comparing pregnancy termination to allowing a child to die through lack of medical treatment then you seriously need to sit down and reflect on your values.

Remember you brought it up first, don't complain if you're being staked out.

I suppose if a foetus never developed into a child you might have a point.

[diuretic]

I suppose if a foetus never developed into a child you might have a point.

You'll have to enlarge on that point for me. I think I know what you're getting at but clarification would be good.

[DragonStryk72]

You know, I got alot of teaching about God in my six years of Catholic School, but I also remember that the sisters employed a full-time nurse as well.

Faith is great, it is a wonderful thing, but relying on faith when your own energy and effort can take care of he problem is nothing but an attempt to turn God into your personal servants.

A comic book shop owner I know refers to these people as "God-botherers", and I confess, the name fits.

[diuretic]

Faith is great, it is a wonderful thing, but relying on faith when your own energy and effort can take care of he problem is nothing but an attempt to turn God into your personal servants.

That's an interesting take on it. And it also suggests a theology rather than a fundamentalist view. These folks could have done with some theology, their child might still be alive.

[bullypulpit]

Kind of like abortion huh?

Not so much. Like most abortion opponents, you confuse the potential with the actual. AN 11 year old girl is in no way equivalent to an undifferentiated mass of cells or a fetus in the first trimester, when the vast majority of abortions are performed. And, as diuretic said, it is a medical procedure.

[bullypulpit]

abortion is not a threat to a child's life? yeah right :rolleyes:

It's not a child...It's a fetus. And for those who insist that human life begins at conception, let me remind you of a basic fact. Some 50 percent of fertilized eggs never implant in the uterus and are spontaneously aborted without the woman ever knowing it. Using the logic of the "pro-life" movement, she should be tried for negligent homicide. Oh, and let's not forget all of those blastocysts which are discarded with the rest of the medical waste at IVF clinics.

So don't try to muddy the waters with that long discredited argument. The girl's parents were negligent...And their pastor, or whatever they call their spiritual advisor, should be charged as an accessory to child endangerment and even wrongful death.

[bullypulpit]

Praying parents' other 3 kids removed

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080328/ap_on_re_us/daughter_s_death_prayer;_ylt=AgII0KW_MlxWpT7.Crt.7 QVvzwcF

That's good to hear.

but it also said.........

<blockquote>"There is no intent. They didn't want their child to die. They thought what they were doing was the right thing," he said. "They believed up to the time she stopped breathing she was going to get better. They just thought it was a spiritual attack. They believed if they prayed enough she would get through it."</blockquote>

<blockquote>Negligent homicide is a charge brought against people, who by inaction, allow others under their care to die. This offense mostly concerns itself with the death of small infants or children, the handicapped, or the elderly - Wikipedia</blockquote>

It's called negligent homicide...intent doesn't arise as an issue.