Calling Democrats and Liberals!

[jimnyc]

I am looking for honest and subjective feedback, not sarcasm or little games. The feedback I receive can go a long way towards helping with the future of the board.

I completely understand that I am extremely sarcastic with people at times, especially those I disagree with. But understand, and look at how I post with Jackass and OCA, I do it for fun. I know I have an attitude at times. I know I'm wrong on occasions. I'm human, but that's me as a regular member and participant of the board, not as owner/administrator.

The feedback I'm looking for is regarding how I run the board as owner/administrator, and specifically how I enforce rules. Democrat or Conservative, friend or not, I've always tried to remain impartial when running the board and have tried to extend the same courtesies across the spectrum. When it comes time to make a decision regarding "penalties", I try to only do so as a last resort and try to do so impartially. But maybe my perception is incorrect.

I've heard from others that this board is extremely restrictive because of me. I've been told I am extremely unfair to people I do not agree with. I've been told I do not enforce the rules evenly. I've been told that liberals receive repercussions if they participate in heated debates. I've been told that it's still suspected that I can read private messages (You all know what you share with one another in private, do you feel I've ever read any of those communications?).

I'm curious as to what our posters think, specifically the Democrat supporters, and what I can do to improve for the future. Please speak freely but let's not let this turn into a sarcastic thread or a debate. It's OUR community and we all control how the future unfolds.

[Pale Rider]

I've been with you now for what... five years? I've known you to be nothing but fair, and if I had to put it on the scale and weight your fairness, I'd say it nudges over on the lenient side at times. I've got nothing to complain about. You're doing just fine.

[diuretic]

I see I joined here in April last year. I'm not inclined to stop posting here. I have no problems with admins, mods or other posters (in fact I'd say folks are pretty tolerant of me because sometimes I get a dose of the martins and fly off a bit).

Oh and I don't think VBulletin has a hack for admins to read private messages and I have no idea why anyone would bother.

That's my bit.

Now I'm going back to my normal annoying, picky self :coffee:

[jimnyc]

Oh and I don't think VBulletin has a hack for admins to read private messages and I have no idea why anyone would bother.

Actually, there are quite a few hacks available for reading the private messages. I've offered temporary FTP and full admin access to volunteers in the past for anyone wanting to find out for themselves but had no takers. I'm sure there has been some juicy gossip written in private and by now something would have leaked or revenge taken had anyone been reading.

I have no desire to get involved with what people discuss in private. Most aren't afraid to abuse me in public anyway! :laugh2:

[jimnyc]

I've been with you now for what... five years? I've known you to be nothing but fair, and if I had to put it on the scale and weight your fairness, I'd say it nudges over on the lenient side at times. I've got nothing to complain about. You're doing just fine.

Yep, my first political board was started in 2003.

The funny thing is, and contrary to perception, more action has been taken against conservatives of this board than liberals. Think about the users who have been reprimanded over the past few years and you'll see this to be the truth.

One major complaint I received was pointing out and asking users to not post entire articles, and that I only enforced this against our liberal members. Pale - how many times have I contacted you and asked you not to do so, or asked you right in a thread after editing your posted article?

I think with less liberal members aboard, it stands out more when one is chastised for any reason, or asked not to do something. As far as rule breaking is concerned and me having to get involved, as of late it's been 80% conservative members pushing the limits.

[JohnDoe]

Outside of my one little jab at you for nailing TM to 2 paragraphs while dozens of other posters managed to get away with it....which you immediately responded to....excellent customer service on the complaint really!

I think things are MUCH, MUCH better now Jim, it could be because darin isn't here to stir things up....and honestly, I'm kinda missing the little bugger....but not his negative reps and banning people from threads!

So, all in all, many kudos for a fine board!

jd

[jimnyc]

Outside of my one little jab at you for nailing TM to 2 paragraphs while dozens of other posters managed to get away with it....which you immediately responded to....excellent customer service on the complaint really!

JD, I understand your perception and am doing my best to make sure all complaints are addressed. Keep in mind, not many members are privy to the warnings and requests I send out to other members in private. I won't always publicly make such requests unless it's to a repeat offender. But honestly, just as many conservatives post too much of articles as well and fall out of line with copyright issues, and I'm sure a few will chime in and acknowledge they have been asked to cease such activity.

Additionally, many are from reported posts. I can guarantee you that EVERY post that violates this rule that is reported will be corrected.

As for myself, I'm a debater just like everyone else here. Sometimes I don't open every thread and simply go to threads by members that I know will interest a debate in me. Of course most of those members are Democrats, so their opening posts will be noticed by me quicker.

But as far as copyright issues, I'll be in just as much hot water if busted by a Democrat or Republican running afoul of the issue!

[OCA]

Ok, I could clear this up real quick if you knew what was said between me and Jimmy on the phone and what was contained in an email I sent him about two weeks ago or so, for if you knew what we said to each other you would have bet the farm that I would not ever be allowed back on this board in this lifetime or any other:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:.

Anyway here I am, and even though I think Jim can be an asshole at times(I know for a fact he thinks the same of me lol) and I disagree with alot of his decisions and board moves I cannot say that he does not rip conservatives and that he is not fair.......sometimes to a fault.

[Mr. P]

I first checked in on 8-5-04, got the key to my room and haven't left yet. I've seen some bumps here and there, some messes and a few assaults over the yrs. most committed by members, but nothing I couldn't live with or ignore.

IMO since the latest admin changes the board has been running much more civilly and as smooth as a fine old clock. Like the old Timex watch "It takes a lickin and keeps on tickin". Says a lot for "We the people" (plural). :laugh2: More about the owner.

So, for the most part, I think we have moved rapidly toward a board of family with spats and occasional beatings rather than a kill or be killed environment. I see that as a good thing.

My 2 cents. Hey, we're all in this together. :cheers2:

[jackass]

Well here is my .02. As most of you know, I have known Jim for a very long time, both on the board and off. Jim can be one of the most stubborn people you will meet. If Jim considers you a friend, he holds you to the highest of standards. When you disappoint Jim, you will feel the wrath of Jim. Jim is WAY tougher on the people he likes, then the casual person. Just look at his brother. Jim has banned his own brother from the board before! If thats not fair, then I dont know what is.
Jim is also one of the most frogiving people I have ever met. As quick as he is to point out what you did wrong, he is ready to forgive you. Just look at his brother. Jim has banned his own brother from the board before! If thats not fair, then I dont know what is.
Jim, on a personal note, you cant please all the people all the time. 90% of this board knows that what you do is for the best of the board, even if it is against what you really want to do. Dont let what a few numbskulls say. If its that bad here, then why do they come back??

[retiredman]

no complaints from me whatsoever. You have been more than fair with me from day one.

[April15]

I enjoy the ultra conservative posters. There is no need to ask them to keep it down. The rest of us know they just have to shill for the conservatives.

Don't change anything.

[Kathianne]

I enjoy the ultra conservative posters. There is no need to ask them to keep it down. The rest of us know they just have to shill for the conservatives.

Don't change anything.

Which posters do you consider, 'ultra conservative'?

[April15]

Which posters do you consider, 'ultra conservative'?Everyone but me!

[Kathianne]

Everyone but me!

Um, right. :rolleyes:

[Yurt]

i don't like jim. he is biased, nasty, unfair and believes in personal responsibility and crap. just cause i follow jim around the internet to any new board he creates doesn't prove anything......:coffee:

[Abbey Marie]

Yurt, you don't know the half of it. I happen to know that Jim is a Commie, and he eats puppies for lunch.

[Yurt]

Yurt, you don't know the half of it. I happen to know that Jim is a Commie, and he eats puppies for lunch.

:scared:

[Gunny]

I am looking for honest and subjective feedback, not sarcasm or little games. The feedback I receive can go a long way towards helping with the future of the board.

I completely understand that I am extremely sarcastic with people at times, especially those I disagree with. But understand, and look at how I post with Jackass and OCA, I do it for fun. I know I have an attitude at times. I know I'm wrong on occasions. I'm human, but that's me as a regular member and participant of the board, not as owner/administrator.

The feedback I'm looking for is regarding how I run the board as owner/administrator, and specifically how I enforce rules. Democrat or Conservative, friend or not, I've always tried to remain impartial when running the board and have tried to extend the same courtesies across the spectrum. When it comes time to make a decision regarding "penalties", I try to only do so as a last resort and try to do so impartially. But maybe my perception is incorrect.

I've heard from others that this board is extremely restrictive because of me. I've been told I am extremely unfair to people I do not agree with. I've been told I do not enforce the rules evenly. I've been told that liberals receive repercussions if they participate in heated debates. I've been told that it's still suspected that I can read private messages (You all know what you share with one another in private, do you feel I've ever read any of those communications?).

I'm curious as to what our posters think, specifically the Democrat supporters, and what I can do to improve for the future. Please speak freely but let's not let this turn into a sarcastic thread or a debate. It's OUR community and we all control how the future unfolds.


Y'know, I listen to the same crap. Almost verbatim. I think you're beating yourself up too much about it. All one really has to look at it is WHO it is making the accusations.

It's almost exclusively the ones who don't know where to draw the line, and when asked to ease up, they want to start crapping all over the board about it, challenging both your integrity and authority in public forums. The accusations of being partisan/unfair and not believing in freedom of speech always being the first ones thrown out.

These same people also restrict your ability to join in a debate because they second you do and start whipping their asses, they start with the "you should be held to a higher standard of behavior," blah, blah, blah ... and put you in the position of having to switch hats from debater to staff member.

For the past 3+ years I've known you, you've done as good a job as anyone, and as can be expected. Don't let the exceptions to the rule overhsadow the fact that most come on here, obey the rules and think you're doing a fine job.

[OCA]

These same people also restrict your ability to join in a debate because they second you do and start whipping their asses, they start with the "you should be held to a higher standard of behavior," blah, blah, blah ... and put you in the position of having to switch hats from debater to staff member.



Gunny you've got a prime example of someone who does that constantly ON STAFF at USMB. Also i'd watch this person, they've been known to feed private staff info to a certain someone who was a member here and is still a member there.

Not trying to start a brawl over there just thought that statement was sort of ironic.

[jimnyc]

These are some of the quotes from the latest complaints I have received from a participant on this board. I would like to take the time to address each one of them publicly for all to see.

"I have never experienced one as restrictive as your board"

We have a total of 11 rules on this board. 90% of them are very rarely, if ever, abused or have a need to be enforced (signature limitations, image sizes, spamming, dual accounts...). The restrictions found here can be found on most major forums on the internet. Copyright issues are the law and any administrator not looking to pay huge fines will implement this rule. I think the rules here are fairly standard, relaxed to an extent & allow for more open discussion than most other forums.

"I have run into people who have been at your site. They pretty much all have said that you were extremely unfair to the people you do not agree with."

One can only assume that by "unfair" that means I have banned people for repeatedly breaking the rules. Not one single member, EVER, has been reprimanded for their views. We have people disagreeing with my beliefs posting here on a daily basis, and most have never even been warned let alone treated unfairly.

"I have notice that many of the more liberal posters cower and will not join into conversations which are heated."

Heated debates are almost always between liberals and conservatives. How can the debate be heated to begin with without the participation of both supporters? Again, not a single member, EVER, has been reprimanded in any way for joining a heated debate and posting their views while remaining within the rules.

"It has to do with the fact they know they will recieve repercussions."

For the 3rd time, NEVER has anyone received any type of repercussions for posting their views and/or debating as long as they remained within the rules. Banned members are very short on the facts for some reason and NEVER have any proof whatsoever to backup their claims.

"it is pretty much felt that you or someone reads the PMs"

Again, a rumor that has floated around for quite some time - and NEVER has anything come of it. Not a single bit of proof. I've offered twice to allow any of our members temporary FTP access and administrative access for confirmation. Oddly, even those spreading the rumors refused this opportunity. I guess it's better to leave it open ended so there is another rumor to pass along. This rumor, by coincidence, was started by a banned member and openly admitted there was absolutely no proof whatsoever to substantiate the claim. ** The offer still stands to anyone who may have their doubts **

"You dont want to see it but you do unfairly apply the rules"

I hate to use specific names but have little alternative: Pale Rider, OCA, dmp, Sir Evil, actsnoblemartin, nevadamedic... These are just a few off the top of my head that have recently been penalized for their activities on the board - all conservatives and one is even a family member! I've unbanned many liberals who have broken the rules in the past solely to show the perceptions are untrue. In fact, I'd say the repercussions are applied MORE to conservatives, mostly because of the unfounded accusations over time and my desire to show the community that liberals will receive equal, if not better treatment when it comes to bannings. In the past 6 months the moderation on this board has been probably applied more towards about 75% conservative members.

So while I'm sure the complaints will continue, you'll see a shortage of facts and an abundance of rhetoric to go along with those complaints. I guess the "truth doesn't always matter"

[OCA]

So what you are saying is that you've been unfairly persecuting conservatives such as myself just so you will appear to be unfair to a bunch of douchebag libs.

That ain't right.:finger3:

[Dilloduck]

I applaud your attempt to treat everyone fairly. It must be quite the learning experience. If someone insists that you are not being fair, I would ignore them unless you still question your own judgement. There are those who will NEVER accept that things are fair. Screw em.

[CockySOB]

I would contend that many on the left are so accustomed to being pandered to that any time they don't get their way, they feel they are being discriminated against. They are products of their elitist masters' indoctrination, and so become the very examples of why liberal policies consistently fail.

[CockySOB]

So what you are saying is that you've been unfairly persecuting conservatives such as myself just so you will appear to be unfair to a bunch of douchebag libs.

That ain't right.:finger3:

Affirmative Action for Liberals

[gabosaurus]

I think most of the trouble comes from members who do not realize (or refuse to realize) that message boards are NOT a democracy. There are no "rights" to free speech. The person who pays for the space makes the rules. It's like living with your parents -- their house, their rules.
This board is FAR less restrictive than a lot of boards I have been on. I was on a board once that had two pages of rules. "You can be banned for reasons one through 1,183."
Other boards make up their rules as they go along. The mods and admins call the shots. The rules can be different for various posters, depending on your level of suckage to those in charge.

When I was on USMB, Jim banned his own brother for not following the rules. That is pretty hardcore to me. How can you accuse someone of bias who banished his own sibling?

Politics is a very touchy subject. There are those (on both sides) who want to believe that everyone on their side is never wrong, and everyone on the opposing side is never right. They scour the news and blogs for hours, looking for things to post that make the other side look bad.

There are those who live and breathe their political actions and viewpoints. It's very personal to them, and they will die before they admit wrongdoing. They are always right, their political figures are always right, their ideals are always right.
I am on the opposite side. This is the ONLY place I talk politics. Which is probably why points can seem so outrageous. My husband and I don't talk politics. I don't discuss it with friends or family. I never breach the subject in class or at work. Very few people (that aren't close personal friends or family) know if I am Democrat or Republican, liberal or conservative.

BOTTOM LINE:
There is an old adage that should always be observed about message boards (and the internet in general): If you don't like it here, go someplace else. Or start your own board.
Your house, your rules. :)

[gabosaurus]

One final point that I blondely forgot:

The majority of political (or politically oriented) message boards are conservative in nature. That is where the strongest opinions are founds. Liberals normally tend to be too busy hugging trees and protesting to start message boards.
The vast majority of boards I have been on have restricted posting much more than this one. Libs are kept on a short leash and bashed on a regular basis. The bashing is not only tolerated, but encouraged.
I think that is the reason that some conservatives feel uncomfortable here. Libs are allowed equal opportunity to bash back and present their wild and wacky viewpoints.
I occasionally see former (and some present) members of DP and USMB on sites where only one point of view is tolerated. When you are used to that, it is difficult to tolerate equality.

[Mr. P]

I think most of the trouble comes from members who do not realize (or refuse to realize) that message boards are NOT a democracy. There are no "rights" to free speech. The person who pays for the space makes the rules. It's like living with your parents -- their house, their rules.
This board is FAR less restrictive than a lot of boards I have been on. I was on a board once that had two pages of rules. "You can be banned for reasons one through 1,183."
Other boards make up their rules as they go along. The mods and admins call the shots. The rules can be different for various posters, depending on your level of suckage to those in charge.

When I was on USMB, Jim banned his own brother for not following the rules. That is pretty hardcore to me. How can you accuse someone of bias who banished his own sibling?

Politics is a very touchy subject. There are those (on both sides) who want to believe that everyone on their side is never wrong, and everyone on the opposing side is never right. They scour the news and blogs for hours, looking for things to post that make the other side look bad.

There are those who live and breathe their political actions and viewpoints. It's very personal to them, and they will die before they admit wrongdoing. They are always right, their political figures are always right, their ideals are always right.
I am on the opposite side. This is the ONLY place I talk politics. Which is probably why points can seem so outrageous. My husband and I don't talk politics. I don't discuss it with friends or family. I never breach the subject in class or at work. Very few people (that aren't close personal friends or family) know if I am Democrat or Republican, liberal or conservative.

BOTTOM LINE:
There is an old adage that should always be observed about message boards (and the internet in general): If you don't like it here, go someplace else. Or start your own board.
Your house, your rules. :)


One final point that I blondely forgot:

The majority of political (or politically oriented) message boards are conservative in nature. That is where the strongest opinions are founds. Liberals normally tend to be too busy hugging trees and protesting to start message boards.
The vast majority of boards I have been on have restricted posting much more than this one. Libs are kept on a short leash and bashed on a regular basis. The bashing is not only tolerated, but encouraged.
I think that is the reason that some conservatives feel uncomfortable here. Libs are allowed equal opportunity to bash back and present their wild and wacky viewpoints.
I occasionally see former (and some present) members of DP and USMB on sites where only one point of view is tolerated. When you are used to that, it is difficult to tolerate equality.

Bait...switch..you should really stop that. :slap:

[gabosaurus]

Bait...switch..you should really stop that. :slap:

If you want my bait, you need to switch. :)

[Gunny]

When I was on USMB, Jim banned his own brother for not following the rules. That is pretty hardcore to me. How can you accuse someone of bias who banished his own sibling?

Pffft ... THAT's not a valid point. I'd ban my brother at least twice a day just for showing up and opening his mouth.:laugh2: