Obama stereotypes white people...

[CockySOB]

Hat tip: Tom Maguire @ JOM (http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2008/03/take-a-breath.html)

Obama tried to "clarify" his statements about his "white grandmother" in a conversation with 610 WIP host Angelo Cataldi (http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/phillygossip/16851906.html)


Obama told Cataldi that "The point I was making was not that my grandmother harbors any racial animosity, but that she is a typical white person. If she sees somebody on the street that she doesn't know - there's a reaction in her that's been bred into our experiences that don't go away and sometimes come out in the wrong way and that's just the nature of race in our society. We have to break through it. What makes me optimistic is you see each generation feeling less like that. And that's pretty powerful stuff"

And if we look back to some words from our favorite demagogue, Rev. Jesse Jackson we can see that Obama's stereotyping of "typical white person[s]" seems to be prejudiced against white people.


There is nothing more painful to me ... than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery, then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved. -- the Reverend Jesse Jackson, as quoted in US News, 3/10/96 (http://www.usnews.com/usnews/opinion/articles/960318/archive_010008.htm)

So perhaps someone will address this issue to Sen. Obama so he can step in it again... er... clarify how he is a Uniter capable of bridging the gap between lacks and whites, despite the fact he apparently harbors racist tendencies himself.

So much for being above it all.

[glockmail]

He's a racist. Does that surprise you?

He's also a shit bag for tossing his grandmum under the bus.

[CockySOB]

He's a racist. Does that surprise you?

He's also a shit bag for tossing his grandmum under the bus.

Doesn't surprise me in the least. I am surprised that he's not trying to avoid what is a guaranteed losing topic for him.

The parallel would be having someone white running for POTUS saying, "typical black people [insert action here]." We all know that this kind of statement is a blatant stereotype, yet Mr. Eloquent himself, Barack Obama, is literally shoveling shit in his own path so that he steps in it.

BTW, I got my wish - Susan Estrich and Newt Gingrich are now on FoxNews talking about this very issue. The librull media on the other hand is trying to deflect away from Obama's racist statements, preferring to focus on the two State Department employees who were fired for illegally accessing Obama's passport records. (Those fired employees should also face criminal charges for a myriad of Federal criminal violations as well, IMHO.)

[glockmail]

Gee I wonder if Hillary has any gofers at the State Dept..... :coffee:

[CockySOB]

Gee I wonder if Hillary has any gofers at the State Dept..... :coffee:

Surely not! I mean, it's not like Bush could fire all the State Department employees when he took office, after all, those employees ARE protected by the Civil Service Reform Act (unlike the US Attorneys who serve at the pleasure of POTUS). So I guess there would be a good number of people who work in the State Department who were hired on during the Clinton years, and probably more than a few of those would be Clinton loyalists.

Like I said, this is going to be HUGELY entertaining as we watch the Demcorats implode.

[manu1959]

just a typical statement about typical white folks by a typical black guy.....

[glockmail]

In all my years of following politics I've never had this much fun before. It's all coming back to bite them in the ass.

Why does the Affirmative Action go out the window at the DNC? These two candidtaes are equally qualified, have the same policies, so the job should automatically go to the black man.

[CockySOB]

In all my years of following politics I've never had this much fun before. It's all coming back to bite them in the ass.

Why does the Affirmative Action go out the window at the DNC? These two candidtaes are equally qualified, have the same policies, so the job should automatically go to the black man.

Well, one could always refer to George Orwell's 1984 and paraphrase to the following - "all minorities are equal, but some are more equal than others!" And now we get to watch the Democrats fight amongst themselves to determine just which minority IS "more equal."

I can't wait to see what kind of press release or conference that Obama puts out tomorrow morning. Whatever it is, it should be more grist for the mill.

[glockmail]

White woman weren't sold off as slaves, made to pick cotton, or hung on trees by the KKK. Hillary should step down and let the poor Ivy Leauge black man have the nomination.

[CockySOB]

White woman weren't sold off as slaves, made to pick cotton, or hung on trees by the KKK. Hillary should step down and let the poor Ivy Leauge black man have the nomination.

Well, to be accurate, yes they were. Think of the Irish who were brought over by English slavers. I've got ancestors who were brought over on those slave ships and so know a bit more about it than most Americans because the focus was always put on "black slavery." The black African slaves were treated better than the Irish slaves EVER were. Hell, the reason we have so many light-skinned people of color is because the slavers bred black African male slaves to the more comely lily-white Irish females who were shipped to the Americans. But no one wants to really talk about the slavery of whites in early America because it steals steam from the Democrats pandering to black demagogues.

... I'll rant on that topic later though. I just don't have the energy to do it tonight.

[Dilloduck]

White woman weren't sold off as slaves, made to pick cotton, or hung on trees by the KKK. Hillary should step down and let the poor Ivy Leauge black man have the nomination.

Agreed--Hillary has already benefitted by being married to a POTUS. How dare she try to deprive a black man ! :laugh2:

[mundame]

Hat tip: Tom Maguire @ JOM (http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2008/03/take-a-breath.html)

Obama told Cataldi that "The point I was making was not that my grandmother harbors any racial animosity, but that she is a typical white person. If she sees somebody on the street that she doesn't know - there's a reaction in her that's been bred into our experiences that don't go away and sometimes come out in the wrong way and that's just the nature of race in our society. We have to break through it.


Migod. If ANY white person had said the equivalent --- "typical black person" --- we'd be lynched.

Note how Obama realizes he is getting in trouble and after "If she sees somebody on the street that she doesn't know" the rest is completely garbled. What is he actually meaning to say? That if she saw black men she didn't know, she'd be afraid of being attacked, of course.

So.....................................what is wrong with that? I'm a white grandmother: should I be glad to see any black men behind me at all times? Or would that be crazy, because black men have a much higher, a MUCH higher, crime rate than whites? Lemme tell you, in my area it is NOT white men who have been coming up from Baltimore stealing purses in shopping areas and abducting women at ATM windows, robbing us, then jumping right back on I-95 and heading south. It's 100% black men. I would be pretty silly not to recognize this and stay alert, and so would Obama's grandmother.

Suggestion: don't blame the grandmothers. Get the high rate of black crime down to white levels instead.

[Hagbard Celine]

Hat tip: Tom Maguire @ JOM (http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2008/03/take-a-breath.html)

Obama tried to "clarify" his statements about his "white grandmother" in a conversation with 610 WIP host Angelo Cataldi (http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/phillygossip/16851906.html)


Obama told Cataldi that "The point I was making was not that my grandmother harbors any racial animosity, but that she is a typical white person. If she sees somebody on the street that she doesn't know - there's a reaction in her that's been bred into our experiences that don't go away and sometimes come out in the wrong way and that's just the nature of race in our society. We have to break through it. What makes me optimistic is you see each generation feeling less like that. And that's pretty powerful stuff"

And if we look back to some words from our favorite demagogue, Rev. Jesse Jackson we can see that Obama's stereotyping of "typical white person[s]" seems to be prejudiced against white people.


There is nothing more painful to me ... than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery, then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved. -- the Reverend Jesse Jackson, as quoted in US News, 3/10/96 (http://www.usnews.com/usnews/opinion/articles/960318/archive_010008.htm)

So perhaps someone will address this issue to Sen. Obama so he can step in it again... er... clarify how he is a Uniter capable of bridging the gap between lacks and whites, despite the fact he apparently harbors racist tendencies himself.

So much for being above it all.

Seems to me they're both saying that they are relieved when they see white people behind them and that it pains them that they distrust their own race. It's the truth isn't it? Why is it racist if it's true?
I think you guys just ache to find something wrong with Barack because you're incurably partisan. I'll admit the pastor from Obama's church is a lunatic, but none of the things he said are any worse or any less crazy than the things Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell have said. I think saying crazy-ass things is pretty much par for the course if you're a religious freak and you're being filmed every day. While I don't think Obama distanced himself enough from the crazy pastor, I also don't put too much stock into the theory that he is of one mind with the guy.

[PostmodernProphet]

I'm going to come clean....as a typical white person, if I am walking past a bar in Watts at 3 am, I am scared shitless if I meet someone on the streets.....even if it's too dark to see if he is white or black or to see if its a he or a she for that matter.....and a typical black person might be scared to walk past a redneck bar in a small town in Georgia......it isn't a matter of being bred into us.....it's a matter of being smart enough to know you are in the wrong place at the wrong time.....

[Immanuel]

I'm going to come clean....as a typical white person, if I am walking past a bar in Watts at 3 am, I am scared shitless if I meet someone on the streets.....even if it's too dark to see if he is white or black or to see if its a he or a she for that matter.....and a typical black person might be scared to walk past a redneck bar in a small town in Georgia......it isn't a matter of being bred into us.....it's a matter of being smart enough to know you are in the wrong place at the wrong time.....

Why the hell would you be walking past a bar in Watts at 3 am as a white man? Do we need to invoke the Baker Act on you? :laugh2:

Immie

[glockmail]

I'm going to come clean....as a typical white person, if I am walking past a bar in Watts at 3 am, I am scared shitless if I meet someone on the streets.....even if it's too dark to see if he is white or black or to see if its a he or a she for that matter.....and a typical black person might be scared to walk past a redneck bar in a small town in Georgia......it isn't a matter of being bred into us.....it's a matter of being smart enough to know you are in the wrong place at the wrong time.....
Damn straight. As an Irish-blooded kid growing up in Metro Boston we's have to steer clear of many 'hoods, be them Italians, Jews, or blacks.

[Trigg]

Seems to me they're both saying that they are relieved when they see white people behind them and that it pains them that they distrust their own race. It's the truth isn't it? Why is it racist if it's true?
I think you guys just ache to find something wrong with Barack because you're incurably partisan. I'll admit the pastor from Obama's church is a lunatic, but none of the things he said are any worse or any less crazy than the things Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell have said. I think saying crazy-ass things is pretty much par for the course if you're a religious freak and you're being filmed every day. While I don't think Obama distanced himself enough from the crazy pastor, I also don't put too much stock into the theory that he is of one mind with the guy.


You are completely right, I bet everyday there are pastors out there preaching hate like on those videos.

The HUGE difference IMO is that Obama continued to go to this church. I don't know of ANY Presidential hopeful that has attended Pat Robertsons or Falwell's churches, do you?????

I did not see stunned silence or gasps of disapproval during these videos. I see people jumping and clapping in agreement. IMO Obama is lying about knowing about these sermons. I'm sorry, but you don't continue to attend a church if you disagree with the pastor, you leave. Obama's continued attendence showed his approval.

[mundame]

I did not see stunned silence or gasps of disapproval during these videos. I see people jumping and clapping in agreement. IMO Obama is lying about knowing about these sermons.


Of course he's lying. He was jumping around and yelling "Hallelujah!" like the rest of them. And if Obama is REALLY unlucky, the GOP has a video of Wright saying the "real enemy" is white people and Obama leaping up shouting, "Amen, Brother!"

[Yurt]

You are completely right, I bet everyday there are pastors out there preaching hate like on those videos.

The HUGE difference IMO is that Obama continued to go to this church. I don't know of ANY Presidential hopeful that has attended Pat Robertsons or Falwell's churches, do you?????

I did not see stunned silence or gasps of disapproval during these videos. I see people jumping and clapping in agreement. IMO Obama is lying about knowing about these sermons. I'm sorry, but you don't continue to attend a church if you disagree with the pastor, you leave. Obama's continued attendence showed his approval.

exactly

[krisy]

BTW, I got my wish - Susan Estrich and Newt Gingrich are now on FoxNews talking about this very issue. The librull media on the other hand is trying to deflect away from Obama's racist statements, preferring to focus on the two State Department employees who were fired for illegally accessing Obama's passport records. (Those fired employees should also face criminal charges for a myriad of Federal criminal violations as well, IMHO.)



I noticed this too. I think CNN and MSNBC hesitantly covered this story on Wright and couldn't wait to get rid of it.

[Yurt]

Ann Coulter has good points on this one:

First of all, Wright is not Obama's uncle. The only reason we indulge crazy uncles is that everyone understands that people don't choose their relatives the way they choose, for example, their pastors and mentors. No one quarrels with idea that you can't be expected to publicly denounce your blood relatives.

But Wright is not a relative of Obama's at all. Yet Obama cravenly compared Wright's racist invective to his actual grandmother, who "once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe."

Rev. Wright accuses white people of inventing AIDS to kill black men, but Obama's grandmother -- who raised him, cooked his food, tucked him in at night, and paid for his clothes and books and private school -- has expressed the same feelings about passing black men on the street that Jesse Jackson has.

Unlike his "old uncle" -- who is not his uncle -- Obama had no excuses for his grandmother. Obama's grandmother never felt the lash of discrimination! Crazy grandma doesn't get the same pass as the crazy uncle; she's white. Denounce the racist!

Fine. Can we move on now?

No, of course, not. It never ends. To be fair, Obama hinted that we might have one way out: If we elect him president, then maybe, just maybe, we can stop talking about race.

link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ucac/20080319/cm_ucac/throwgrandmaunderthebus;_ylt=AsNS0f85z03yn6Z1jCFPm S4EtbAF)

He threw grandma under the rollin racist bus

[glockmail]

Of course he's lying. He was jumping around and yelling "Hallelujah!" like the rest of them. And if Obama is REALLY unlucky, the GOP has a video of Wright saying the "real enemy" is white people and Obama leaping up shouting, "Amen, Brother!" We're saving that one for October. :coffee:

[middleground]

I'm shocked.

After nearly 40 racists presidents, suddenly racism is a problem. :rolleyes:

I dont see Obama as a racist. I dont see where the generalization he was making was in anyway projecting something negative about white people. If you are arguing that he intended to say that white people are paranoid of being followed by black people, I think that is generally true. I dont see him assigning blame to his grandmother, as I am willing to bet that he would admit that some of the problem is the way that some blacks project themselves in the media.

Racial perceptions are something that will need to be addressed at some point. Maybe America isn't ready for an actual discussion about race perceptions at least not publicly. I'm sure everyone has their little private discussions about it.

IF anything, the inability to have a public discussion about race only illustrates that America is still hung up on the issue. If race ultimately becomes the deciding factor in who we are willing to choose as a president, then America is still a racist country.

[Dilloduck]

I'm shocked.

After nearly 40 racists presidents, suddenly racism is a problem. :rolleyes:

I dont see Obama as a racist. I dont see where the generalization he was making was in anyway projecting something negative about white people. If you are arguing that he intended to say that white people are paranoid of being followed by black people, I think that is generally true. I dont see him assigning blame to his grandmother, as I am willing to bet that he would admit that some of the problem is the way that some blacks project themselves in the media.

Racial perceptions are something that will need to be addressed at some point. Maybe America isn't ready for an actual discussion about race perceptions at least not publicly. I'm sure everyone has their little private discussions about it.

IF anything, the inability to have a public discussion about race only illustrates that America is still hung up on the issue. If race ultimately becomes the deciding factor in who we are willing to choose as a president, then America is still a racist country.

Obama suggested there is such a thing as a "typical" white person. Do you think there is a typical white person ?

[MtnBiker]

After nearly 40 racists presidents, suddenly racism is a problem.


How were 40 presidents racists?

[middleground]

Obama suggested there is such a thing as a "typical" white person. Do you think there is a typical white person ?

I'm sure to a black person there is no typical black person either, but to white people there are typically black people and to black black people I'm willing to bet that there are typical white people. I dont see it as an issue of racism but rather an illustration of the way that the human mind likes to take shortcuts and categorize things.

So I concede ... Obama is guilty of being human.

[middleground]

How were 40 presidents racists?

I said "nearly" ... I didn't really feel like counting an exact number.

I would be comfortable in stating that most of the presidents prior to the 1970's where probably of the mind that white people were superior to blacks as that was the prevailing attitude of the times that they were raised. I'm sure there were exceptions, but not so many that I cant comfortably make this statement.

[Dilloduck]

I'm sure to a black person there is no typical black person either, but to white people there are typically black people and to black black people I'm willing to bet that there are typical white people. I dont see it as an issue of racism but rather an illustration of the way that the human mind likes to take shortcuts and categorize things.

So I concede ... Obama is guilty of being human.

Unfortunately when whites are guilty of being human in the same fashion as Obama they are labeled as racist. Before we can have a decent and rational discussion regarding race issues in America we has better come up with a definition that applies to everyone equally.

[middleground]

Unfortunately when whites are guilty of being human in the same fashion as Obama they are labeled as racist. Before we can have a decent and rational discussion regarding race issues in America we has better come up with a definition that applies to everyone equally.

I agree. The problem is that we have a history in this country that has accepted that whites were superior to blacks. So it not so unreasonable to see why blacks might be overly defensive of generalizations about blacks as most of those generalizations have been historically bad.

But again, I agree that it is something we need to get past before we can have a real discussion. It is not however productive to try to label a black presidential candidate inaccurately as a racist. That is a step back not forward.

I dont think that it will change anytime soon though, the issue of race has always been a tool of the wealthy to keep poor whites voting against their own interests.

[Dilloduck]

I agree. The problem is that we have a history in this country that has accepted that whites were superior to blacks. So it not so unreasonable to see why blacks might be overly defensive of generalizations about blacks as most of those generalizations have been historically bad.

But again, I agree that it is something we need to get past before we can have a real discussion. It is not however productive to try to label a black presidential candidate inaccurately as a racist. That is a step back not forward.

I dont think that it will change anytime soon though, the issue of race has always been a tool of the wealthy to keep poor whites voting against their own interests.

The issue of race is being used by blacks to get preferential treatment and by democrats to get elected.

[manu1959]

I'm sure to a black person there is no typical black person either, but to white people there are typically black people and to black black people I'm willing to bet that there are typical white people. I dont see it as an issue of racism but rather an illustration of the way that the human mind likes to take shortcuts and categorize things.

So I concede ... Obama is guilty of being human.

it is worth repaeting......when obama does it he is human....when a typical white person does it they are racist.....

[Yurt]

I agree. The problem is that we have a history in this country that has accepted that whites were superior to blacks. So it not so unreasonable to see why blacks might be overly defensive of generalizations about blacks as most of those generalizations have been historically bad.

But again, I agree that it is something we need to get past before we can have a real discussion. It is not however productive to try to label a black presidential candidate inaccurately as a racist. That is a step back not forward.

I dont think that it will change anytime soon though, the issue of race has always been a tool of the wealthy to keep poor whites voting against their own interests.

his comments and continued support of his pastor and church make him racist.

[middleground]

The issue of race is being used by blacks to get preferential treatment and by democrats to get elected.

I dont see how blacks can use race to get preferential treatment as it is unconstitutional and affirmative action has pretty much been been tagged as unconstitutional.

As for democrats being the party of blacks, that has historical origins. Its not some much that the democrats use race so much as class. Since most blacks are in the lower classes it only makes sense that they would fall into the democrat category. As the distribution of wealth between the races in this country becomes more representative of the populations of white and blacks, I expect it will remain that way.

[middleground]

it is worth repaeting......when obama does it he is human....when a typical white person does it they are racist.....

It seems that you are more wrapped up in the double standard argument.

So let me see if I fully understand your argument. You dont think that making generalizations is racist. But you accuse Obama of being a racist for doing it anyway.

[Dilloduck]

I dont see how blacks can use race to get preferential treatment as it is unconstitutional and affirmative action has pretty much been been tagged as unconstitutional.

As for democrats being the party of blacks, that has historical origins. Its not some much that the democrats use race so much as class. Since most blacks are in the lower classes it only makes sense that they would fall into the democrat category. As the distribution of wealth between the races in this country becomes more representative of the populations of white and blacks, I expect it will remain that way.

I thought Obama wanted to talk about race----I thought everyone feels this need to resolve racism in America. Now you are telling me it has nothing to do with race and that it's all economic ? Do the wealthy Democrat leaders somehow feel that they represent the saviors the poor ?

[middleground]

his comments and continued support of his pastor and church make him racist.

I dont see how citizens forming political factions based on race is racist when their racial identity has historically had political significance.

And what comment did Obama make that makes him a racist ... making a racial generalization?

[Dilloduck]

I dont see how citizens forming political factions based on race is racist when their racial identity has historically had political significance.

And what comment did Obama make that makes him a racist ... making a racial generalization?

yes

[manu1959]

It seems that you are more wrapped up in the double standard argument.

So let me see if I fully understand your argument. You dont think that making generalizations is racist. But you accuse Obama of being a racist for doing it anyway.

it is called fairness......

making generalizations is not racist unless the generalization claims one race is superior to another......

i accuse obama of being a bigot.....and a number of other things but not racist as he has never claimed one race is better than another.....

[middleground]

I thought Obama wanted to talk about race----I thought everyone feels this need to resolve racism in America. Now you are telling me it has nothing to do with race and that it's all economic ? Do the wealthy Democrat leaders somehow feel that they represent the saviors the poor ?

Um ... No ... I said the reason that democrats tend to have the black vote is based on historical events and class distinction. If you cannot see the connection between blacks and social class, I cant help you.

I'm not sure what you are getting at with the "wealthy democrat" statement? Its seems that you are confused as to why a wealthy person would champion the cause of the poor in the political arena. I'm sure it has something to do with personal philosophy, but you would need to ask them about it because I cant speak for them.

[middleground]

it is called fairness......

making generalizations is not racist unless the generalization claims one race is superior to another......

i accuse obama of being a bigot.....and a number of other things but not racist as he has never claimed one race is better than another.....

at least we have you on record saying that obama is not a racist. thats a start.

If you want to call him narrow minded for making a generalization, I cant argue with your opinion.

fairness is important, I'm sure most blacks would agree with you there.

[middleground]

yes

it appears that you and manu disagree on this point.

I would like to see you two debate this point.

Manu, explain to Dillo as to why you dont think Obama is a racist.

[middleground]

his comments and continued support of his pastor and church make him racist.

Manu would disagree.

[Dilloduck]

it appears that you and manu disagree on this point.

I would like to see you two debate this point.

Manu, explain to Dillo as to why you dont think Obama is a racist.

It appears to me as though you are getting a bit desperate. Manu and I are using different words to describe the same behavior.

[middleground]

It appears to me as though you are getting a bit desperate. Manu and I are using different words to describe the same behavior.

I'm not getting desperate at all.

Clearly, Manu sees a difference between racism and bigotry.


making generalizations is not racist unless the generalization claims one race is superior to another......

[Dilloduck]

I'm not getting desperate at all.

Clearly, Manu sees a difference between racism and bigotry.

Which is why I stated that there needs to be a clear defintion of definition of racism, bigotry, etc before it can be rationally discussed. Your're going to start being called MFM if you keep trying to play word games to avoid issues.

[CockySOB]

And what comment did Obama make that makes him a racist ... making a racial generalization?

"Typical white people" is every bit as racist as "typical black people." So that would be a resounding, "YES!" Making a generalization based on ethnicity is racist, just as making a generalization based on gender is sexist. But let me clarify, if such generalizations are supported by scientific fact, then such statements are NOT racist or sexist. The problem arises though that those who make racist/sexist statements often fail to provide these kinds of scientific facts to support their assertions and instead rely on logical fallacies to attempt to justify their opinions.

[CockySOB]

Which is why I stated that there needs to be a clear defintion of definition of racism, bigotry, etc before it can be rationally discussed. Your're going to start being called MFM if you keep trying to play word games to avoid issues.

I was thinking that truth might not matter here, if you get my drift.

[middleground]

Which is why I stated that there needs to be a clear defintion of definition of racism, bigotry, etc before it can be rationally discussed. Your're going to start being called MFM if you keep trying to play word games to avoid issues.

I have never believed that racial generalizations are racist unless they imply some superiority.

I hope that helps clarify my view. I'm am not avoiding the issue, I am addressing it.

My point is that Obama is not racist for making the "typical" comment. No where in there does he assign or even imply superiority.

If you believe that bigotry and racism are the same thing ... and they are closely related ... then I dont see Obama's statement as bigoted either.

If you truly want to address the issue ... why dont we start with what Obama's intentions for saying what he said. what was the context? I'm being accused of playing word games but this entire thread hinges on the phrase "typical white" person and doesn't bother to address what message or issue he was trying to address.

[middleground]

I was thinking that truth might not matter here, if you get my drift.


there are two definitions for racism in the dictionary.

1. the assumption of racial superiority

2. racial prejudice or discrimination.

if you accept definition #2 as racism, then just about everyone is guilty of racism. The need to categorize and make assumptions is the norm in human thinking. I dont see why race would somehow be omitted from the process. That is why I reject that usage and only use definition #1.

It seems to me that the word game being played in this thread is that Obama is accused of racism based on definition 2 but is being tagged with definition #1.

[middleground]

so now that we have waded through the semantics ...

does anyone here feel that obama's comments were intended to reinforce black racial superiority?

[Yurt]

I dont see how citizens forming political factions based on race is racist when their racial identity has historically had political significance.

And what comment did Obama make that makes him a racist ... making a racial generalization?

manu is correct for his observations and opinion. i think obama is both a bigot and a racist. while he has been careful to not outright state that blacks are superior, he impliedly put forth this position. for example, because he is black, he believes there is no other person better able to represent black people (his website). he is saying that blacks are superior in this regard. he also is against whites having their own schools, he calls this segregation, however, again on his website, he has a video of girl gushing over the greatness of Howard University because it is a "black" college.

IMO, supporting a pastor for 20 years that believes white america is evil and responsible for reprehensible acts, is racist, because the person positing such belief must necessarily believe that their own race would not do such a thing and only the other race would stoop so low as to commit such acts.

[Yurt]

I have never believed that racial generalizations are racist unless they imply some superiority.

I hope that helps clarify my view. I'm am not avoiding the issue, I am addressing it.

My point is that Obama is not racist for making the "typical" comment. No where in there does he assign or even imply superiority.

If you believe that bigotry and racism are the same thing ... and they are closely related ... then I dont see Obama's statement as bigoted either.

If you truly want to address the issue ... why dont we start with what Obama's intentions for saying what he said. what was the context? I'm being accused of playing word games but this entire thread hinges on the phrase "typical white" person and doesn't bother to address what message or issue he was trying to address.


isn't he? by stating this is "typical" of whites, and that this typical behavior is bad, inferior to a greater way of understanding things, then he is stating that other races are superior because this is not typical of them.

[Kathianne]

Actually I think he was making excuses for poor behavior of his minister and some others that are bigots, prejudiced, and inflammatory, so that he didn't have to disown that church, which carries a lot of weight in Chicago. He's pragmatic as well as populist, if he loses the presidential run, he'll need that church for the next Senate race.

[Gunny]

He's a racist. Does that surprise you?

He's also a shit bag for tossing his grandmum under the bus.

Yeah, but it's okay cuz it was the white one ....:laugh2:

[Gunny]

In all my years of following politics I've never had this much fun before. It's all coming back to bite them in the ass.

Why does the Affirmative Action go out the window at the DNC? These two candidtaes are equally qualified, have the same policies, so the job should automatically go to the black man.

Or the one furthest to the left ....

[middleground]

while he has been careful to not outright state that blacks are superior, he impliedly put forth this position. for example, because he is black, he believes there is no other person better able to represent black people (his website). he is saying that blacks are superior in this regard.

Saying that he is better suited to understand the problems of black people is not an argument for racial superiority. He grew up around black people and work with black youth on his way up. You are clearly reaching here.

[Yurt]

Saying that he is better suited to understand the problems of black people is not an argument for racial superiority. He grew up around black people and work with black youth on his way up. You are clearly reaching here.

no he didn't, he grew up in hawaii and went to ivy league schools. he know more understands them than hillary....so because he is half white he understands blacks better?

[middleground]

IMO, supporting a pastor for 20 years that believes white america is evil and responsible for reprehensible acts, is racist, because the person positing such belief must necessarily believe that their own race would not do such a thing and only the other race would stoop so low as to commit such acts.

I guess this is the guilt through association argument.

If Wright claims that black people with power would be up above such evils then he is making a superiority argument and then therefore racist ... but it would be a pretty weak argument given the levels of corruption that has been witnessed in africa. I haven't read wrights philosophy but Wright is not a presidential candidate and I expect that Obama will be forced to address this in more detail as time goes on.

When Obama says that he believes that blacks are superior to whites, then I will accept that as his position.

[middleground]

no he didn't, he grew up in hawaii and went to ivy league schools. he know more understands them than hillary....so because he is half white he understands blacks better?

I didn't say he "grew up" I said on his way up ... if you check out his biography you will find that he worked as a "community organizer" and civil rights lawyer early on in his career.

As for the half-white comment, you guys cant have it both ways. He is either a black supremacist or he is white bred. If you want to call him a white bred black supremacist things are going to start getting a little weird.

It seems that what you are arguing is that Obama wouldn't understand poverty. But then that takes us back to the "wealthy democract" problem.

[middleground]

isn't he? by stating this is "typical" of whites, and that this typical behavior is bad, inferior to a greater way of understanding things, then he is stating that other races are superior because this is not typical of them.

Again, you are reaching.

[REDWHITEBLUE2]

Bottom Line Is Obama is A Racist Muslim Plant Who Wants to Destroy AMERICA

[Yurt]

Again, you are reaching.

try explaining what exactly i'm reaching....

[Yurt]

I didn't say he "grew up" I said on his way up ... if you check out his biography you will find that he worked as a "community organizer" and civil rights lawyer early on in his career.

As for the half-white comment, you guys cant have it both ways. He is either a black supremacist or he is white bred. If you want to call him a white bred black supremacist things are going to start getting a little weird.

It seems that what you are arguing is that Obama wouldn't understand poverty. But then that takes us back to the "wealthy democract" problem.

yes you did....


He grew up around black people

bull, if he is half, then he can choose whatever he wants. he has no more experience with poverty than hillary. are you saying because he has dark skin tone that he understands poverty better?

[middleground]

try explaining what exactly i'm reaching....

Your analysis of the his "typical white" as an argument for racial superiority. Its my opinion that its reaching.

I guess we disagree.

I'm betting that in some places in the south its a typical black reaction to look over their shoulder too.

We can read what ever we want into things. But that doesn't make it true.

[Yurt]

Your analysis of the his "typical white" as an argument for racial superiority. Its my opinion that its reaching.

I guess we disagree.

I'm betting that in some places in the south its a typical black reaction to look over their shoulder too.

We can read what ever we want into things. But that doesn't make it true.

blacks typically are weak

[middleground]

yes you did....


my bad.

I guess he is a white bred black supremacist.

[middleground]

blacks typically are weak

did he say that white people are typically weak?

[Yurt]

my bad.

I guess he is a white bred black supremacist.

that he is, threw his grandma under the bus to prove it. that is why he can't turn his back on this bigotted, racist black church....

[Yurt]

did he say that white people are typically weak?

so his grandma's reaction was good?

[middleground]

so his grandma's reaction was good?

was it bad?

He only seems to be pointing out that racial tension isn't always an issue of racism.

[middleground]

Bottom Line Is Obama is A Racist Muslim Plant Who Wants to Destroy AMERICA

That seems to be the theme around here.

[CockySOB]

there are two definitions for racism in the dictionary.

1. the assumption of racial superiority

2. racial prejudice or discrimination.

if you accept definition #2 as racism, then just about everyone is guilty of racism. The need to categorize and make assumptions is the norm in human thinking. I dont see why race would somehow be omitted from the process. That is why I reject that usage and only use definition #1.

It seems to me that the word game being played in this thread is that Obama is accused of racism based on definition 2 but is being tagged with definition #1.

First, you did not understand my reference to truth matters, or you chose to ignore the reference entirely. I sincerely hope it was the former.

Second, Obama's statements along with those of his close, personal friend, mentors, and "almost-"family members clearly indicate the belief by many blacks that they are morally superior when the topic of race is broached.

Lastly, the first definition (racial superiority) can be linked to certain racist groups of nearly every ethnicity. I say "nearly" because there may exist an ethnic group out there somewhere which truly has no such groups, but if so I haven't heard of it.

Be careful that you don't fall into the same trap you accuse others of in reference to playing word games. Racism is racism is racism, period. There may be varying degrees of active and passive participation, but trying to nuance the difference is disingenuous at best and hypocritical at worst.

[CockySOB]

was it bad?

He only seems to be pointing out that racial tension isn't always an issue of racism.

Please explain how you can use the term "racial tension" and claim that such tension isn't an issue of racism. By using the adjective "racial", you have already indicated that such tension IS driven by factors involving ethnicity/race. What you posted would seem to be a contradiction. Perhaps you would clarify?

[CockySOB]

That seems to be the theme around here.

Then you obviously haven't bothered reading much here, have you. And that was a rhetorical question, no comment needed.

[5stringJeff]

All generalizations are false.

[hjmick]

That seems to be the theme around here.

You have been a member for all of four days, you've chalked up a whopping total of thirty eight posts in five threads (the bulk of which are here in this thread), and you profess to know what "theme around here" is? Whatever you say, pumpkin.

How very pretentious of you.

[middleground]

Please explain how you can use the term "racial tension" and claim that such tension isn't an issue of racism. By using the adjective "racial", you have already indicated that such tension IS driven by factors involving ethnicity/race. What you posted would seem to be a contradiction. Perhaps you would clarify?

Tension doesn't imply any sort of superiority.

[middleground]

You have been a member for all of four days, you've chalked up a whopping total of thirty eight posts in five threads (the bulk of which are here in this thread), and you profess to know what "theme around here" is? Whatever you say, pumpkin.

How very pretentious of you.

It doesnt take four days to see the list of Obama attack threads.

When I got here I wasn't aware that this was a partisan GOP Message Board. I was beginning to suspect it, and after following the "top political sites" link and reading through the regulations threads it has been confirmed.

I've already found another board that is "unaffiliated". It wasn't my intention to be a token liberal. take care.

[stephanie]

It doesnt take four days to see the list of Obama attack threads.

When I got here I wasn't aware that this was a partisan GOP Message Board. I was beginning to suspect it, and after following the "top political sites" link and reading through the regulations threads it has been confirmed.

I've already found another board that is "unaffiliated". It wasn't my intention to be a token liberal. take care.


What he/she really mean..
Not everyone here agrees with me..

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m268/alaskamomma/thtantrumgr7.gif

[REDWHITEBLUE2]

It doesnt take four days to see the list of Obama attack threads.

When I got here I wasn't aware that this was a partisan GOP Message Board. I was beginning to suspect it, and after following the "top political sites" link and reading through the regulations threads it has been confirmed.

I've already found another board that is "unaffiliated". It wasn't my intention to be a token liberal. take care. :clap: SEE YA

[5stringJeff]

It doesnt take four days to see the list of Obama attack threads.

When I got here I wasn't aware that this was a partisan GOP Message Board. I was beginning to suspect it, and after following the "top political sites" link and reading through the regulations threads it has been confirmed.

I've already found another board that is "unaffiliated". It wasn't my intention to be a token liberal. take care.

Uh oh... someone found out that Karl Rove owns the board! :D

Seriously, though... it's called Debate Policy because that's what we do: debate. We don't always agree, and there are plenty of "Bush-bashers" around here to offset the "Obama attack threads."

[hjmick]

Gee, I didn't intend to scare him/her off. I was only trying to point out that the theme and character and heart of this board is too deep to pass judgement on in four days and less than fifty posts. As for the regulations, the primarily liberal boards to which I have registered are far more restrictive and much less tolerant. I have yet to run afoul of Jim's rules and I tend to believe that the number of those who have are few.

Go figure.

[CockySOB]

Tension doesn't imply any sort of superiority.

Which means you are using your own, personal definition of racism rather than any of the widely used definitions. Pretentious, and invalid for a discussion with anyone who uses the (much) more common definitions.

Per Merriam-Webster Dictionary (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism) online:




Main Entry: rac·ism Listen to the pronunciation of racism
Pronunciation: \ˈrā-ˌsi-zəm also -ˌshi-\
Function: noun
Date: 1933

1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2 : racial prejudice or discrimination
— rac·ist Listen to the pronunciation of racist \-sist also -shist\ noun or adjective

[CockySOB]

It doesnt take four days to see the list of Obama attack threads.

When I got here I wasn't aware that this was a partisan GOP Message Board. I was beginning to suspect it, and after following the "top political sites" link and reading through the regulations threads it has been confirmed.

I've already found another board that is "unaffiliated". It wasn't my intention to be a token liberal. take care.

Stick around and get an education - if you're open-minded enough to consider that your own preconceptions and prejudices might have flaws.

[Yurt]

this board doesn't lean either way, just because the GOP members are more intelligent than the dem members :laugh2: further, many gop members are now independent....

seriously dude, you're running away that fast?