Hussein O's Poll Numbers Seriously Dropping! [Archive] - Debate Policy

Pale Rider

03-20-2008, 10:44 AM

Is Jeremiah Wright affecting Obama's poll numbers?

Updated at 9:30 p.m.

Sen. Barack Obama hit 50 percent to Hillary Clinton's 44 percent last week in Gallup's daily tracking poll (http://www.gallup.com/poll/104986/Gallup-Daily-Obama-Leads-Clinton-50-44.aspx). It was the largest advantage either contestant has had in the race since late February, according to Gallup.

Then Pastor-Gate went viral on Friday. And Obama's numbers have been steadily declining (while his negatives have ticked up). And today Gallup says Clinton is leading 47 percent to Obama's 45 percent. While not statistically significant, Clinton's two percentage point advantage in today's report is a notable shift from last week, the pollster says.

A separate pollster, Rasmussen, also finds the controversy is hurting Obama. And offers a jaw-dropping statistic (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/people2/just_8_have_favorable_opinion_of_pastor_jeremiah_w right). Only 8 percent of Americans have a favorable opinion of Obama pastor Jeremiah Wright.

More here... (http://primebuzz.kcstar.com/?q=node/10525)

theHawk

03-20-2008, 10:53 AM

Its funny how all the lib pundits were saying it was going to be great that Obama and Hillary would get all the media attention since McCain secured the nomination. Be careful of what you wish for!! :lol:

theHawk

03-20-2008, 11:06 AM

I know there are lots of O-"bah-bah"-ma sheep here, wondering if they're going to come to his defense!

Pale Rider

03-20-2008, 11:13 AM

Well that ought to be fun.... I don't know how one can defend rampant racism and lying.

retiredman

03-20-2008, 11:20 AM

Well that ought to be fun.... I don't know how one can defend rampant racism and lying.

I see no evidence of rampant racism OR lying on Obama's part.

Pale Rider

03-20-2008, 11:24 AM

I see no evidence of rampant racism OR lying on Obama's part.

I do... how is that... I see it and you don't?

Classact

03-20-2008, 11:30 AM

I do... how is that... I see it and you don't?Someone has blinders on...

This whole thing reminds me of the comedy movie The Animal... There is a scene where the folks are out with torches and pitchforks to kill the man-animal beast but upon learning he is black they grin and say I don't want to be no part of putting down a black person... too funny! If you haven't seen it please check it out and see the hypocrisy..

Pale Rider

03-20-2008, 11:38 AM

Someone has blinders on...

This whole thing reminds me of the comedy movie The Animal... There is a scene where the folks are out with torches and pitchforks to kill the man-animal beast but upon learning he is black they grin and say I don't want to be no part of putting down a black person... too funny! If you haven't seen it please check it out and see the hypocrisy..

AAaahh... you're talking about hussein O right.... :rolleyes:

retiredman

03-20-2008, 11:44 AM

I do... how is that... I see it and you don't?

it is not that hard to understand.... we see things through our own lenses and filter what we see through our own value systems and beliefs and aspirations.

how else can you explain how some people can look at George Bush and see a brilliant statesman and warrior-king who has started a purposeful and successful war while others see him as a failed moron?

I listen to Rev. Wright, and while I understand how many white americans can be outraged by his statements, I find myself agreeing with much that he says, understanding his frustrations if not agreeing on other points, and being only mildly annoyed by his tone on a few issues.

I don't know what you are talking about regarding Obama LYING in any way.

Classact

03-20-2008, 11:45 AM

AAaahh... you're talking about hussein O right.... :rolleyes:
Let me break it down when MFM says
I see no evidence of rampant racism OR lying on Obama's part.I say...Someone has blinders on...

And when I say...
This whole thing reminds me of the comedy movie The Animal... There is a scene where the folks are out with torches and pitchforks to kill the man-animal beast but upon learning he is black they grin and say I don't want to be no part of putting down a black person... too funny! If you haven't seen it please check it out and see the hypocrisy..

I'm saying all the liberal press and liberals throwing down their coat on the mud puddle for Obama to cross in to the brilliant sunshine...

Pale Rider

03-20-2008, 11:49 AM

it is not that hard to understand.... we see things through our own lenses and filter what we see through our own value systems and beliefs and aspirations.

how else can you explain how some people can look at George Bush and see a brilliant statesman and warrior-king who has started a purposeful and successful war while others see him as a failed moron?

I listen to Rev. Wright, and while I understand how many white americans can be outraged by his statements, I find myself agreeing with much that he says, understanding his frustrations if not agreeing on other points, and being only mildly annoyed by his tone on a few issues.

I don't know what you are talking about regarding Obama LYING in any way.

So, you agree with wright when he says the white man created HIV to kill blacks?

Do you agree with wright when he says the white man built prisons just to incarcerate blacks?

Do you agree with wright when he says the white man is the reason blacks can't succeed?

That's racism mfm.... in it's purest form... and if you deny that, I'm going to lose faith in your ability to reason.

Second, hussein denied he'd ever heard wright preaching any of this. Now we know that was a lie by hussein's own admission.

Your continued support for this liar and charlatan is disturbing. I hope there's not that many like you out there.

Hagbard Celine

03-20-2008, 11:51 AM

Well that ought to be fun.... I don't know how one can defend rampant racism and lying.

What are you talking about? :confused:

Immanuel

03-20-2008, 11:54 AM

retiredman

03-20-2008, 11:58 AM

So, you agree with wright when he says the white man created HIV to kill blacks?

Do you agree with wright when he says the white man built prisons just to incarcerate blacks?

Do you agree with wright when he says the white man is the reason blacks can't succeed?

That's racism mfm.... in it's purest form... and if you deny that, I'm going to lose faith in your ability to reason.

Second, hussein denied he'd ever heard wright preaching any of this. Now we know that was a lie by hussein's own admission.

Your continued support for this liar and charlatan is disturbing. I hope there's not that many like you out there.

much of what Wright says is incindiary. Do I agree that white man created AIDS to kill blacks? No. But I do believe there is an excellent chance that AIDS got started by white men experimenting with polio vaccines made from monkeys on african children. Do I believe that whites built prisons to incarcerate blacks? No...but I do know that blacks are incarcerated in our white built prisons in alarming numbers. Do I agree that the white man is THE reason that blacks cannot succeed? no...but I understand the obstacles to blacks that are in place in a society that has long been run by a white power structure.

And Obama (please quit calling him Hussein...that is just inflammatory for no real constructive purpose) did not say that he had not heard Wright preach any of that....he said he had not heard Wright preach those sermons that had been circulated and that had caused the commotion.

Pale Rider

03-20-2008, 12:05 PM

Immanuel

03-20-2008, 12:12 PM

That's not what it's looking like... and morris is just a frothing at the mouth clinton hater. Of course he's going to shake his poms poms for hussein.

No, you are right, that is not what it is looking like, but it is still a long way to November and even the conventions. You can't honestly believe that Democrats will abandon Barack Obama over this little bump in the road. Can you? Hillary is defeated so badly that even the evil witch of the Northeast won't be able to pull this rabbit out of the hat or should I say fire.

Just look at TM and realize that there are 60 million or more Democrats just as dedicated to her cause as she is and they are not going to give up on Obama.

When the Democratic War Machine begins focusing on John McCain, people will begin asking, "Jeremiah who?"

Immie

Pale Rider

03-20-2008, 12:19 PM

much of what Wright says is incindiary. Do I agree that white man created AIDS to kill blacks? No. But I do believe there is an excellent chance that AIDS got started by white men experimenting with polio vaccines made from monkeys on african children. Do I believe that whites built prisons to incarcerate blacks? No...but I do know that blacks are incarcerated in our white built prisons in alarming numbers. Do I agree that the white man is THE reason that blacks cannot succeed? no...but I understand the obstacles to blacks that are in place in a society that has long been run by a white power structure.
So, what gives you this idea "whites" used some experimental vaccine on blacks in Africa, and that's where Aides came from? You have any proof of this? A link? I'd like to see that. And so you think that's where wright got his this idea? And even if this were true... is it the white mans fault blacks in Africa breed like rabbits hut hoping when the sun goes down? Weak argument mfm... very weak. Then the prisons... blacks do out number all other races in prisons. Why? Is the white man "framing" all the blacks? Is the white man able to "get them in trouble" and get them sent to prison even though they're innocent? Give me a break here man. If you break the law, you go to prison. Blacks are violent by nature. More violent than any other race. More blacks pimp whores, more blacks sell drugs, more blacks steal, rape and murder. THAT is why more of them are in prison, and it's got NOTHING to do with whites. And now, we have a black that's making a good run for President of the United States, and you're going to tell me that blacks can't achieve in America, and it's white people's fault? mfm.... c'mon man... I consider you an intelligent guy... but you're really building straw men here bud. Your reasoning is all..... phony.

And Obama (please quit calling him Hussein...that is just inflammatory for no real constructive purpose) did not say that he had not heard Wright preach any of that....he said he had not heard Wright preach those sermons that had been circulated and that had caused the commotion.

His name is hussein. His first name is barrack, second hussein, third obama. They're ALL islamic sounding. One no worse than the other. How can you pick one of his names that all sound alike and demand no one ever speak it? That's just foolish.

And now the frothing at the mouth racist rants of hussein's preacher OF TWENTY YEARS. Hussein FIRST said, he'd never heard ANY of it. We now know that was a LIE mfm.... a LIE! He's admitted that he's heard these rants before. He also KNEW this was coming, A YEAR AGO! Thing is, he didn't plan very well for this inevitable situation. He's on damage control now, and so is his church. The church has pulled down ALL the BLACK this, and the BLACK that. It's ALL GONE! And hussein has dropped wright as a supporter of his campaign.... wink, wink. Sorry man... but if you're buying all this horse shit and lying.... you're losing some of my respect.

Pale Rider

03-20-2008, 12:28 PM

No, you are right, that is not what it is looking like, but it is still a long way to November and even the conventions. You can't honestly believe that Democrats will abandon Barack Obama over this little bump in the road. Can you?
The intelligent ones will.

Hillary is defeated so badly that even the evil witch of the Northeast won't be able to pull this rabbit out of the hat or should I say fire.
Here you're just a tad wrong. Actually, this morning, hitlery was up on hussein. His racist preacher is hurting him, bad. Watch the news.

Just look at TM and realize that there are 60 million or more Democrats just as dedicated to her cause as she is and they are not going to give up on Obama.
I honestly can't say I'd use TM as an example for anything other than someone who is in dire need of being committed.

When the Democratic War Machine begins focusing on John McCain, people will begin asking, "Jeremiah who?"

Immie
It always plays out that the republican war machine is every bit as formidable as the dems. I would bet that whoever the dem nominee is, they're in for a new orifice.

Classact

03-20-2008, 12:40 PM

I think this will affect Obama's numbers but only temporarily.

There is another thread just started by Mr. P giving a piece written by Dick Morris that says that this will not hurt Obama. I agree with that. Obama's numbers have dropped, but they will bounce back up when the nomination is complete. The Democrats will rally behind him, moderates will chose him over McCain and possibly even many Republicans will vote for Obama because they can't stand John McCain. I won't vote for John McCain even if Barack Obama came out and said to me specifically that he would tax 100% of my income for the rest of my life, but then, I suppose, I would simply leave the country just to survive.

I think it is very possible that unless something dastardly comes out about Barack Obama before November, America will see its first black President.

ImmieThere is an excellent chance Obama will be the Democratic nominee but his chance in the general election has passed with his speech and continued association with Rev. Wright.

If the Rev. Wright news had hit before the run he would have been eliminated long ago... the white vote is no longer there for him... look at the national polls that indicate the Independents have moved to McCain and they won't be back... even worse the "old white females and males" that voted for Hillary will not rally to a guy that supports a church that wishes to overthrow the government or have it change to the vision of the black ethic...

I think some people just don't get it... Obama says he agrees with what the church stands for and the church stands for blacks standards and socialism... well I know most Democrats support socialism but the church demands it by black standards.

Had the Rev. Wright thing happened early we wouldn't be debating... he would be long gone and every honest person would admit it. The people are going to be constantly reminded what their vote will buy... the majority must adjust to the black standard and give up their standard... they aren't coming back in the general election.

retiredman

03-20-2008, 12:41 PM

So, what gives you this idea "whites" used some experimental vaccine on blacks in Africa, and that's where Aides came from? You have any proof of this? A link? I'd like to see that. And so you think that's where wright got his this idea? And even if this were true... is it the white mans fault blacks in Africa breed like rabbits hut hoping when the sun goes down? Weak argument mfm... very weak. Then the prisons... blacks do out number all other races in prisons. Why? Is the white man "framing" all the blacks? Is the white man able to "get them in trouble" and get them sent to prison even though they're innocent? Give me a break here man. If you break the law, you go to prison. Blacks are violent by nature. More violent than any other race. More blacks pimp whores, more blacks sell drugs, more blacks steal, rape and murder. THAT is why more of them are in prison, and it's got NOTHING to do with whites. And now, we have a black that's making a good run for President of the United States, and you're going to tell me that blacks can't achieve in America, and it's white people's fault? mfm.... c'mon man... I consider you an intelligent guy... but you're really building straw men here bud. Your reasoning is all..... phony.

His name is hussein. His first name is barrack, second hussein, third obama. They're ALL islamic sounding. One no worse than the other. How can you pick one of his names that all sound alike and demand no one ever speak it? That's just foolish.

And now the frothing at the mouth racist rants of hussein's preacher OF TWENTY YEARS. Hussein FIRST said, he'd never heard ANY of it. We now know that was a LIE mfm.... a LIE! He's admitted that he's heard these rants before. He also KNEW this was coming, A YEAR AGO! Thing is, he didn't plan very well for this inevitable situation. He's on damage control now, and so is his church. The church has pulled down ALL the BLACK this, and the BLACK that. It's ALL GONE! And hussein has dropped wright as a supporter of his campaign.... wink, wink. Sorry man... but if you're buying all this horse shit and lying.... you're losing some of my respect.

http://www.uow.edu.au/arts/sts/bmartin/dissent/documents/AIDS/River/HoustonPress.html

I saw an interesting PBS special about this theory. It was pretty convincing.

I never saw Obama say he never heard any of it... I'd like a link to THAT transcript.

I must say that your statement that blacks are more violent by nature than any other race is frighteningly racist.

you say:

The church has pulled down ALL the BLACK this, and the BLACK that. It's ALL GONE!

I disagree. Here is a quote I just pulled from their website:

http://www.tucc.org/about.htm

"We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian... Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community."

get your facts straight.

I belong to a UCC church myself. Here is what the president of our denomination has to say:

http://www.ucc.org/news/responding-to-wright.html

Yurt

03-20-2008, 12:45 PM

http://www.uow.edu.au/arts/sts/bmartin/dissent/documents/AIDS/River/HoustonPress.html

I saw an interesting PBS special about this theory. It was pretty convincing.

I never saw Obama say he never heard any of it... I'd like a link to THAT transcript.

I must say that your statement that blacks are more violent by nature than any other race is frighteningly racist.

you say:

The church has pulled down ALL the BLACK this, and the BLACK that. It's ALL GONE!

I disagree. Here is a quote I just pulled from their website:

http://www.tucc.org/about.htm

"We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian... Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community."

get your facts straight.

I belong to a UCC church myself. Here is what the president of our denomination has to say:

http://www.ucc.org/news/responding-to-wright.html

unfortunately your president got Romney wrong, he lost primarily because many don't trust mormons. his religion came up quite a bit.

further, this is different than mere religion, TUCC entered the political scene. they are fair game and you know it. how many times has (that guy from the 700 club or something, his son took over) been bashed in the news for his political views.....many, far more than obama's black church.

retiredman

03-20-2008, 12:59 PM

unfortunately your president got Romney wrong, he lost primarily because many don't trust mormons. his religion came up quite a bit.

further, this is different than mere religion, TUCC entered the political scene. they are fair game and you know it. how many times has (that guy from the 700 club or something, his son took over) been bashed in the news for his political views.....many, far more than obama's black church.

Bash away. Bashing churches is such a noble pursuit, isn't it?

Pale Rider

03-20-2008, 01:02 PM

http://www.uow.edu.au/arts/sts/bmartin/dissent/documents/AIDS/River/HoustonPress.html

I saw an interesting PBS special about this theory. It was pretty convincing.
Interesting... but, just a theory, much like evolution, never been proven.

I never saw Obama say he never heard any of it... I'd like a link to THAT transcript.
Here ya go, you can... "get your facts straight."

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/03/just-what-did-o.html

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/warner-todd-huston/2008/03/16/contrary-claims-obama-very-close-racist-preacher-wright

http://sweetness-light.com/archive/obamas-trots-out-his-racist-grandmother

http://sweetness-light.com/archive/racist-jeremiah-wright-on-white-supremacy

I must say that your statement that blacks are more violent by nature than any other race is frighteningly racist.
Don't be a typical liberal and call names when they aren't warranted mfm. I'm not calling you names. Blacks are very violent as a race. It's not my statement, it's a fact....
http://www.dvinstitute.org/conferences/proceedings/1995/william1.pdf

http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh25-1/58-65.pdf

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5519a3.htm

you say:

The church has pulled down ALL the BLACK this, and the BLACK that. It's ALL GONE!

I disagree. Here is a quote I just pulled from their website:

http://www.tucc.org/about.htm

"We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian... Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community."

get your facts straight.

I belong to a UCC church myself. Here is what the president of our denomination has to say:

http://www.ucc.org/news/responding-to-wright.html

The "10-point vision" that used to be on the site said "black" this and "black" that. Yes, they took it all down. It was racist, and you know it.

retiredman

03-20-2008, 01:12 PM

none of your links state that the black race is more violent by nature.

your statement was that TUCC had removed it ALL (capitalization yours)

I showed you that you were wrong.

and DO take the time to read the link I gave you. You might find it instructive.

Pale Rider

03-20-2008, 01:16 PM

none of your links state that the black race is more violent by nature.
EVERY - SINGLE - ONE - OF - THEM - DOES.... you are really pushing it...

your statement was that TUCC had removed it ALL (capitalization yours)

I showed you that you were wrong.

and DO take the time to read the link I gave you. You might find it instructive.

OK mfm... I'm done with you... I can see now that if we're not talking about lobsters from maine or patting your back for your last recipe, you're just as bad a liar and charlatan as hussein himself.

Whatever... I can't talk with someone that denies stark, bold, facts staring them right in the face. Just incredible.... I've lost a lot of respect for you this day... in fact... all of it.

Immanuel

03-20-2008, 01:24 PM

There is an excellent chance Obama will be the Democratic nominee but his chance in the general election has passed with his speech and continued association with Rev. Wright.

If the Rev. Wright news had hit before the run he would have been eliminated long ago... the white vote is no longer there for him... look at the national polls that indicate the Independents have moved to McCain and they won't be back... even worse the "old white females and males" that voted for Hillary will not rally to a guy that supports a church that wishes to overthrow the government or have it change to the vision of the black ethic...

I think some people just don't get it... Obama says he agrees with what the church stands for and the church stands for blacks standards and socialism... well I know most Democrats support socialism but the church demands it by black standards.

Had the Rev. Wright thing happened early we wouldn't be debating... he would be long gone and every honest person would admit it. The people are going to be constantly reminded what their vote will buy... the majority must adjust to the black standard and give up their standard... they aren't coming back in the general election.

If... if... if Classact. The fact is that Mr. Wright was not exposed until Obama had the convention sewn up. Now, that he does the Democrats will band together and support him at all costs. (This is just my humble opinion.) Any and all who oppose him, will be made to look like racists. You could be McCain's favorite nephew and if you come out in support of John McCain they will accuse you of doing so because you are a racist.

I honestly don't think McCain has what it takes to win. As I have said, I won't vote for him, come hell or high water. I will say, I am no prophet, but I just see the cards being stacked in Obama's favor and that when the next campaign gets going, McCain is going to get creamed.

Immie

Pale Rider

03-20-2008, 01:29 PM

If... if... if Classact. The fact is that Mr. Wright was not exposed until Obama had the convention sewn up. Now, that he does the Democrats will band together and support him at all costs. (This is just my humble opinion.) Any and all who oppose him, will be made to look like racists. You could be McCain's favorite nephew and if you come out in support of John McCain they will accuse you of doing so because you are a racist.

I honestly don't think McCain has what it takes to win. As I have said, I won't vote for him, come hell or high water. I will say, I am no prophet, but I just see the cards being stacked in Obama's favor and that when the next campaign gets going, McCain is going to get creamed.

Immie

Every match up they made this morning on the news had McCain winning, against both dems. He had hitlery by a nose, but he was slaughtering hussein.

Classact

03-20-2008, 01:34 PM

If... if... if Classact. The fact is that Mr. Wright was not exposed until Obama had the convention sewn up. Now, that he does the Democrats will band together and support him at all costs. (This is just my humble opinion.) Any and all who oppose him, will be made to look like racists. You could be McCain's favorite nephew and if you come out in support of John McCain they will accuse you of doing so because you are a racist.

I honestly don't think McCain has what it takes to win. As I have said, I won't vote for him, come hell or high water. I will say, I am no prophet, but I just see the cards being stacked in Obama's favor and that when the next campaign gets going, McCain is going to get creamed.

ImmieI would have totally agreed with you before the Rev. Wright thing... Now I see Obama stepping down, taking VP or losing because of the Rev. Wright impact.

Immanuel

03-20-2008, 01:38 PM

Every match up they made this morning on the news had McCain winning, against both dems. He had hitlery by a nose, but he was slaughtering hussein.

I've seen that and agree... if the election were held tomorrow, it would be over. Today, is March 20th, the first day of Spring. It is a long way until winter.

Three weeks ago, Obama was America's sweetheart to all but the most devout Republicans. Today he is seen as a man who at the very least worshipped a devout racist. Tomorrow the Democrats will be convincing the world he is the second coming of Christ.

You may be right though, the Republican War Machine may not be as rusty as I think.

Immie

Immanuel

03-20-2008, 01:39 PM

I would have totally agreed with you before the Rev. Wright thing... Now I see Obama stepping down, taking VP or losing because of the Rev. Wright impact.

Maybe... but we'll see.

Immie

Dilloduck

03-20-2008, 01:40 PM

Ruling out Hillary is a huge mistake.

Pale Rider

03-20-2008, 01:43 PM

I would have totally agreed with you before the Rev. Wright thing... Now I see Obama stepping down, taking VP or losing because of the Rev. Wright impact.

I've seen that and agree... if the election were held tomorrow, it would be over. Today, is March 20th, the first day of Spring. It is a long way until winter.

Three weeks ago, Obama was America's sweetheart to all but the most devout Republicans. Today he is seen as a man who at the very least worshipped a devout racist. Tomorrow the Democrats will be convincing the world he is the second coming of Christ.

You may be right though, the Republican War Machine may not be as rusty as I think.

Immie

It's an interesting process to watch, or at least it must be to people like us... we're doing it.

Immanuel

03-20-2008, 01:43 PM

Ruling out Hillary is a huge mistake.

Hey!!

I can always dream. Can't I? :laugh2:

She's outta there!

Immie

Immanuel

03-20-2008, 01:48 PM

It's an interesting process to watch, or at least it must be to people like us... we're doing it.

Huh?

What does that mean?

Here is an example: Three weeks ago you were saying you would not vote for McCain if hell froze over. Am I right? Didn't I read yesterday that you said you were voting for McCain to keep Hillary out?

Okay, I don't think Hell's frozen over yet, stranger things have happened, but I can't name them.

Like I said, it is a long way til November. There are a lot of political scumbags just waiting to do one candidate or the other in.

Immie

retiredman

03-20-2008, 02:57 PM

EVERY - SINGLE - ONE - OF - THEM - DOES....

NONE of them does. They all talk about black violence as it relates to American society. NONE of them state that the black race, by nature, is inherently more violent than other races. Next thing you'll tell me is that whites, by nature, are smarter.

You're done with ME? fuck you. I'm done with YOU, you fucking racist pig.

Sitarro

03-20-2008, 03:50 PM

NONE of them does. They all talk about black violence as it relates to American society. NONE of them state that the black race, by nature, is inherently more violent than other races. Next thing you'll tell me is that whites, by nature, are smarter.

You're done with ME? fuck you. I'm done with YOU, you fucking racist pig.

Your membership to that pathetic club you call a church says everything I need to know about you. Asshole movie star wannabees that become pastors and try their best to get an Academy Award each Sunday are nothing but whores for the money and fame. They will live out eternity in hell for what they do. You can always tell when the church is all about the pastor rather than Jesus Christ, their face is plastered in all of the advertisements for THEIR church like real estate salesmen. They are nothing but nontaxed whores, screw them.

Yurt

03-20-2008, 03:52 PM

[QUOTE=Pale Rider;220422]The "10-point vision" that used to be on the site said "black" this and "black" that. Yes, they took it all down. It was racist, and you know it

what 10-point vision? they still have this one up, and it is the only one i have seen:

The Pastor as well as the membership of Trinity United Church of Christ is committed to a 10-point Vision:

A congregation committed to ADORATION.
A congregation preaching SALVATION.
A congregation actively seeking RECONCILIATION.
A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.
A congregation committed to BIBLICAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to CULTURAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE IN DIASPORA.
A congregation committed to LIBERATION.
A congregation committed to RESTORATION.
A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY.

they still have up the remaining true to the african continent and as you can see, this is NON-NEGOTIABLE

no way, no how, do i want a pres committed to another land/country over this one

Yurt

03-20-2008, 03:56 PM

Your membership to that pathetic club you call a church says everything I need to know about you. Asshole movie star wannabees that become pastors and try their best to get an Academy Award each Sunday are nothing but whores for the money and fame. They will live out eternity in hell for what they do. You can always tell when the church is all about the pastor rather than Jesus Christ, their face is plastered in all of the advertisements for THEIR church like real estate salesmen. They are nothing but nontaxed whores, screw them.

obama's church i believe come under tax scrutiny because of their politiking for him.....

retiredman

03-20-2008, 08:25 PM

Your membership to that pathetic club you call a church says everything I need to know about you. Asshole movie star wannabees that become pastors and try their best to get an Academy Award each Sunday are nothing but whores for the money and fame. They will live out eternity in hell for what they do. You can always tell when the church is all about the pastor rather than Jesus Christ, their face is plastered in all of the advertisements for THEIR church like real estate salesmen. They are nothing but nontaxed whores, screw them.

Congregational churches, which form the backbone of the UCC are the direct descendants of the Pilgrims. We don't have pastors who are movie star wannabes. We are the most egalitarian, unpretentious denomination in the protestant spectrum. Your profound ignorance about my denomination is breathtaking, but not unexpected.

retiredman

03-20-2008, 08:26 PM

what 10-point vision? they still have this one up, and it is the only one i have seen:

they still have up the remaining true to the african continent and as you can see, this is NON-NEGOTIABLE

no way, no how, do i want a pres committed to another land/country over this one

there is no country called Africa, moron.

Dilloduck

03-20-2008, 08:42 PM

there is no country called Africa, moron.

He said land/country, moron.

retiredman

03-20-2008, 09:02 PM

He said land/country, moron.

why did he even say "country", MORON?

Dilloduck

03-20-2008, 09:07 PM

why did he even say "country", MORON?

Because he wasn't only speaking about Obama--he was referring to any potential president.

retiredman

03-20-2008, 09:26 PM

Because he wasn't only speaking about Obama--he was referring to any potential president.

new taps on those shoes?:dance:

and I wonder how many presidents have expressed their non-negotiable commitment to Israel in the past 60 years?

but that must be OK for Yurt, because he's been called a kike before.

Dilloduck

03-20-2008, 09:33 PM

new taps on those shoes?:dance:

and I wonder how many presidents have expressed their non-negotiable commitment to Israel in the past 60 years?

me too. Got a link ?

retiredman

03-20-2008, 09:36 PM

me too. Got a link ?

I don't..but I bet it's a big number. Don't you?

And I'll bet Yurt didn't blink a fucking eye when any president or any other American politician expressed their commitment to Israel.

can you spell H Y P O C R I T E?

Dilloduck

03-20-2008, 09:42 PM

I don't..but I bet it's a big number. Don't you?

And I'll bet Yurt didn't blink a fucking eye when any president or any other American politician expressed their commitment to Israel.

can you spell H Y P O C R I T E?

you bet they had to suck up to Israel----worked out well for us didn't it ? I gotta feeling Obama isn't talking about the same kind of committment to Africa.

retiredman

03-20-2008, 09:47 PM

you bet they had to suck up to Israel----worked out well for us didn't it ? I gotta feeling Obama isn't talking about the same kind of committment to Africa.

oh really? how is this any different?

"America has never flinched from its commitment to the State of Israel--a commitment which remains unshakable" Ronald Reagan

why isn't Yurt, the self-professed "kike" furious about THAT???

(I got lots more ;) )

CockySOB

03-20-2008, 09:48 PM

can you spell H Y P O C R I T E?

Barack Obama

Wasn't that difficult, was it? But I always had another spelling of it to fall back on...

Hillary Clinton

:laugh2:

Dilloduck

03-20-2008, 09:49 PM

retiredman

03-20-2008, 09:50 PM

Barack Obama

Wasn't that difficult, was it? But I always had another spelling of it to fall back on...

Hillary Clinton

:laugh2:

do you have anything of substance to add, or is is ALL stupid one liners with you?

retiredman

03-20-2008, 09:52 PM

uh--maybe because Reagan wasn't a Jew ? :laugh2:

What did Yurt say?

"no way, no how, do i want a pres committed to another land/country"

Dilloduck

03-20-2008, 09:53 PM

retiredman

03-20-2008, 09:56 PM

and how has that committment to Israel worked out for America?

When Soviet Premier Aleksei Kosygin asked Johnson why the United States supports Israel when there are 80 million Arabs and only three million Israelis, the President replied simply: “Because it is right.”

Yurt

03-20-2008, 09:58 PM

there is no country called Africa, moron.

African people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent
A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.

so.......what is your church talking about...........the entire continent? so you are racist.

manfrommaine;220686]oh really? how is this any different?

"America has never flinched from its commitment to the State of Israel--a commitment which remains unshakable" Ronald Reagan

why isn't Yurt, the self-professed "kike" furious about THAT???

(I got lots more ;) )

way to bash me MFM. i told the truth, and you have to bash me on the head. your kind is nothing to me, love the debates, so keep them coming. racist.

if you want proof of me being discriminated against, PM me, I will give you the details .................

Dilloduck

03-20-2008, 09:59 PM

When Soviet Premier Aleksei Kosygin asked Johnson why the United States supports Israel when there are 80 million Arabs and only three million Israelis, the President replied simply: “Because it is right.”

and I bet you think that was a heartfelt comment too. :laugh2:

manu1959

03-20-2008, 10:02 PM

retiredman

03-20-2008, 10:05 PM

way to bash me MFM. i told the truth, and you have to bash me on the head. your kind is nothing to me, love the debates, so keep them coming. racist.

if you want proof of me being discriminated against, PM me, I will give you the details .................

do you condemn Reagan or not, asshole?

and why don't you PM Rev. Wright for details about how blacks have been discriminated against in Chicago... you fucking self righteous hypocritical prick?

Yurt

03-20-2008, 10:06 PM

Dilloduck

03-20-2008, 10:07 PM

CockySOB

03-20-2008, 10:09 PM

do you have anything of substance to add, or is is ALL stupid one liners with you?

Odd, I was going to ask if all you have to say is racist tripe like calling Yurt a "kike?" But then I figured I'd lighten the message a bit by correctly identifying both Obama and Clinton as hypocrites. I could jest as easily have spell the word as "manfrommaine."

Or perhaps I hit a bit too close to your home with my "one-liner." Touchy a bit are you?

Abbey Marie

03-20-2008, 10:10 PM

do you condemn Reagan or not, asshole?

and why don't you PM Rev. Wright for details about how blacks have been discriminated against in Chicago... you fucking self righteous hypocritical prick?

Wow. For the life of me, I do not understand how any church could let someone like you speak from their pulpit.

Dilloduck

03-20-2008, 10:11 PM

Odd, I was going to ask if all you have to say is racist tripe like calling Yurt a "kike?" But then I figured I'd lighten the message a bit by correctly identifying both Obama and Clinton as hypocrites. I could jest as easily have spell the word as "manfrommaine."

Or perhaps I hit a bit too close to your home with my "one-liner." Touchy a bit are you?

depression---his man is dropping in the polls----like a rock !

Dilloduck

03-20-2008, 10:12 PM

Wow. For the life of me, I do not understand how any church could let someone like you speak from their pulpit.

It's a black church---it's 'cultural'. :laugh2:

manu1959

03-20-2008, 10:13 PM

Wow. For the life of me, I do not understand how any church could let someone like you speak from their pulpit.

i would bet he gives reverend wright a pretty good run for his money.....

retiredman

03-20-2008, 10:14 PM

Wow. For the life of me, I do not understand how any church could let someone like you speak from their pulpit.

If you don't want to go to church where I preach, I hope you find a powerful and healing message somewhere else.

CockySOB

03-20-2008, 10:23 PM

depression---his man is dropping in the polls----like a rock !

Yup. Nothing like the smell of desperation and panic coming from a librull to really make the day complete. History repeats, and the Democrats continue to implode just when they think they have it made. This time perhaps, the Democrats will finally be exposed as the pandering opportunists they are, and the minorities they've courted over the decades start thinking for themselves and throw off the yoke of their elite Democrat slave-lords.

Is that it MFM? Are you just panicking because you see the voter base that the Democrats have built up starting to dissent with those who know better for them?

Kathianne

03-20-2008, 10:27 PM

If you don't want to go to church where I preach, I hope you find a powerful and healing message somewhere else.

Is your church 'Afro Centric', didn't think so. Tell us, what is it with your church, mission or in action, that would make the right, angry?

Abbey Marie

03-20-2008, 10:28 PM

If you don't want to go to church where I preach, I hope you find a powerful and healing message somewhere else.

Where I attend or what I need is not the point. The point is that you are preaching there. I am imagining you speaking filth, cursing, and wishing death on Republicans from that pulpit. That's the person I have come to know on this board. You cursed at me the other day, unprovoked, and seemed to enjoy describing homosexual oral sex as well.

I am not sure where you get the idea that it's ok to speak to people, even women, the way you do. The image of someone like you preaching is just so unbelievable, that I am having to assume that you keep your real self well hidden from the congregation. Is there something about UCC's that attracts such angry people?

The funny thing is, I'll bet you think the conservative Christians on this board give a bad name to Christianity. But it is in fact you, who do so in spades.

CockySOB

03-20-2008, 10:33 PM

If you don't want to go to church where I preach, I hope you find a powerful and healing message somewhere else.

Are you like Jeremiah Wright and preach about how "some Negroes jsut don't get it" and "Uncle Clarence [Thomas]"; or, another Obama friend Sen. Jesse Meeks (D-IL) who moonlights as a pastor at Chicago's Salem Baptist Church and talks about the "house niggers" who have bucked the yoke of the black Democrat leadership (demagogues)?

If you do, there's no way in Hell I'd sit in a pew and listen to your apostasy. If not, then how the Hell can you defend these racist bastards and their hate-filled speech?

Would it be proper to note that Chicago has historically been a heavily Democrat-controlled area? South of I-80 you find the red portion of Illinois, but north of I-80 is deep, dark blue. So are you implying that blacks around Chicago have been discriminated against by the Chicago Democrats? Or do you need a few minutes to compose yourself and concoct an answer.

retiredman

03-20-2008, 10:37 PM

Where I attend or what I need is not the point. The point is that you are preaching there. I am imagining you speaking filth, cursing, and wishing death on Republicans from that pulpit. That's the person I have come to know on this board. You cursed at me the other day, unprovoked, and seemed to enjoy describing homosexual oral sex as well.

I am not sure where you get the idea that it's ok to speak to people, even women, the way you do. The image of someone like you preaching is just so unbelievable, that I am having to assume that you keep your real self well hidden from the congregation. Is there something about UCC's that attracts such angry people?

The funny thing is, I'll bet you think the conservative Christians on this board give a bad name to Christianity. But it is in fact you, who do so in spades.

this is an internet message board. we are all disembodied wraiths... you are a "woman" only because that is your announced online persona. For all I know, you could very well be a 65 year old homosexual male. I never curse anyone "unprovoked". You insult me in your way, I will, most likely, insult you in my own way. My "real self" is a friendly, affable, musical guy who preaches the gospel with power and commitment. I NEVER bring politics into the pulpit.... NEVER. My congregation is well aware that I am a liberal democrat.... some of them are as well...most are not... and they STILL love to listen to my sermons, because they move them and motivate them and inspire them and make them think... and oftentimes make them cry... and once in a while, make them stand up and applaud, which is really rare for new englanders.

retiredman

03-20-2008, 10:41 PM

Are you like Jeremiah Wright and preach about how "some Negroes jsut don't get it" and "Uncle Clarence [Thomas]"; or, another Obama friend Sen. Jesse Meeks (D-IL) who moonlights as a pastor at Chicago's Salem Baptist Church and talks about the "house niggers" who have bucked the yoke of the black Democrat leadership (demagogues)?

If you do, there's no way in Hell I'd sit in a pew and listen to your apostasy. If not, then how the Hell can you defend these racist bastards and their hate-filled speech?

Would it be proper to note that Chicago has historically been a heavily Democrat-controlled area? South of I-80 you find the red portion of Illinois, but north of I-80 is deep, dark blue. So are you implying that blacks around Chicago have been discriminated against by the Chicago Democrats? Or do you need a few minutes to compose yourself and concoct an answer.

I live in Maine, but was born and raised in Illinois. I am implying that blacks around Chicago are little different than blacks anywhere else in America who have been discriminated against by the system for a long long time.

Where I presently live is lily white and there are only a handful of blacks who attend my church...but they are the overwhelming majority of the blacks in my county...and they come to my church... and I am quite proud of their attendance and grateful for their energetic participation in our various missions.

retiredman

03-20-2008, 10:47 PM

Is your church 'Afro Centric', didn't think so. Tell us, what is it with your church, mission or in action, that would make the right, angry?

I don't imagine that much about my church would make anyone angry.... we are involved in homelessness...I suppose if providing shelter to the homeless would make you angry, you might be angry at us.... we are involved in feeding the hungry... I suppose if feeding hungry people who could not afford a square meal pissed you off, you might not like us....we are involved in domestic violence issues... I suppose if you didn't like people stopping abusive husbands and parents from attacking spouses and children, you might not like us... and we are involved in seeking peace... I suppose if you really liked war and killing folks, then you might be a bit perturbed at us, but, other than that, I can't think of a thing.

Kathianne

03-20-2008, 10:51 PM

I don't imagine that much about my church would make anyone angry.... we are involved in homelessness...I suppose if providing shelter to the homeless would make you angry, you might be angry at us.... we are involved in feeding the hungry... I suppose if feeding hungry people who could not afford a square meal pissed you off, you might not like us....we are involved in domestic violence issues... I suppose if you didn't like people stopping abusive husbands and parents from attacking spouses and children, you might not like us... and we are involved in seeking peace... I suppose if you really liked war and killing folks, then you might be a bit perturbed at us, but, other than that, I can't think of a thing.

Worthy Christian concerns, kudos. So what does your church, under the same banner as Wright's, have in common that you've heard? (I'm assuming no first hand knowledge and we all know what that means. ;) )

retiredman

03-20-2008, 10:59 PM

Worthy Christian concerns, kudos. So what does your church, under the same banner as Wright's, have in common that you've heard? (I'm assuming no first hand knowledge and we all know what that means. ;) )

do you think that TUCC is not involved in homelessness, hunger, domestic violence and peace? I would assume they are.

Pale Rider

03-20-2008, 11:21 PM

If you don't want to go to church where I preach, I hope you find a powerful and healing message somewhere else.

Well... since we're white, should we look for a church that preaches "white values," and that "blackie is trying to kill us all?" That is the type you prefer right? The ones with a racist message?

diuretic

03-21-2008, 12:58 AM

Pale Rider

03-21-2008, 01:15 AM

I saw Obama's speech on YouTube. It was very clever how he could disassociate himself from Reverend Wright's more outlandish comments but not condemn him as a pastor and as a person. That was why Obama will be seen as a statesman and not a mere politician. Hillary would have "Reverend who? Oh the guy we're about to throw under the bus?"

Product differentiation. :coffee:

So... since he's a polished liar, that makes him a "statesman?" I've heard everything now....

He will be forever known, from this point on, as a racist and a liar.

stephanie

03-21-2008, 02:14 AM

Obambam is TOAST..

No butter or jelly spread on it....just dry brunt toast..

The Clinton machine brought out the big gunners and toasted his ass....and of course he had a big hand in it himself, thinking he was above any scrutiny...

There is no way for Obambam and his disciples to orate their way out of this one...

Sorry dude........you were running against a Clinton..you have a few more yrs. to get as smarmy and corrupt as they are, but hey......with Wright and Rezko......you're working are on it...:laugh2:

diuretic

03-21-2008, 03:15 AM

That left wing rag the Wall Street Journal has a word about the speech:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120604775960652829.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

I thought Barack Obama's speech was strong, thoughtful and important. Rather beautifully, it was a speech to think to, not clap to. It was clear that's what he wanted, and this is rare.

But Chucky K dissed it:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/20/AR2008032003017.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

The beauty of a speech is that you don't just give the answers, you provide your own questions. "Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes." So said Barack Obama, in his Philadelphia speech about his pastor, friend, mentor and spiritual adviser of 20 years, Jeremiah Wright.

retiredman

03-21-2008, 07:42 AM

Well... since we're white, should we look for a church that preaches "white values," and that "blackie is trying to kill us all?" That is the type you prefer right? The ones with a racist message?

what do YOU care about what church I prefer? I go to an old New England Congregational Church that has been around for thirty years longer than Maine has been a state. You are always welcome there, just as we both are always welcome at Trinity UCC in Chicago.

retiredman

03-21-2008, 07:45 AM

So... since he's a polished liar, that makes him a "statesman?" I've heard everything now....

He will be forever known, from this point on, as a racist and a liar.

I am not sure that Barack Obama really is allthat concerned about how he will be known by a fellow that believes that the black race is more violent BY NATURE.:lol:

Dilloduck

03-21-2008, 07:51 AM

I am not sure that Barack Obama really is allthat concerned about how he will be known by a fellow that believes that the black race is more violent BY NATURE.:lol:

So what's your opinion of why blacks are more violent and the areas of towns in which they congregate are high crime areas ?

retiredman

03-21-2008, 07:54 AM

So what's your opinion of why blacks are more violent and the areas of towns in which they congregate are high crime areas ?

I would attribute it to socioeconomic conditions and not NATURE.

Dilloduck

03-21-2008, 07:58 AM

I would attribute it to socioeconomic conditions and not NATURE.

yah--they've been trying to use that excuse for years now too. Being poor and getting treated in a grossly unfair manner just never made me want to kill or steal.

retiredman

03-21-2008, 08:06 AM

yah--they've been trying to use that excuse for years now too. Being poor and getting treated in a grossly unfair manner just never made me want to kill or steal.

I'll bet you believe that they are not as smart as whites either, don't you? I'll bet that you and Pale Rider can stand at the window of a maternity ward looking down at a black infant and you just KNOW, don't you, that that little "nigger" will grow up stupid and violent and will, no doubt, want to rape your lily white grand daughter. You see....where I come from, that attitude is called RACISM!

Classact

03-21-2008, 08:14 AM

I would attribute it to socioeconomic conditions and not NATURE.Have you spent much time around African Americans? I have in the military and there is a distinct difference in their appraisal of the world than that of whites. I think, as a group they consider themselves superior to whites and Rev. Wright pointed this out when he talked down about President Bush with his C grades when a black man is much superior.

My appraisal is based on professional blacks, doctors, lawyers and leaders of men. These black professionals are exactly that and equal in every manner to whites but if you observe them in free time in a black only crowd they turn tribal and can be equal to the lowest privates (low ranking soldiers) in their actions. In this setting with a low ranking black private in the group it is clear that they consider a blood relationship stronger than any respect for a white of their equal accomplishments. They go tribal.

theHawk

03-21-2008, 08:25 AM

I would attribute it to socioeconomic conditions and not NATURE.

Its not socioeconomic conditions that causes it. It may or may not be "nature" but that depends on how you define it. Its not in their nature as a race to act in such a manner. I would say its in their nature as a culture to act that way. They grow up in a gangster-thug MTV culture, where its cool to be a pimp, treat women like shit, and to act like you're a hardcore 'killa'. They go out of their way to act different, and look different by the way they dress. Now its their God-given right, not to mention a Constitutional right, to act and behave as they want, but thats what is holding them back. Not Chez Whitey.

Immanuel

03-21-2008, 08:30 AM

Its not socioeconomic conditions that causes it. It may or may not be "nature" but that depends on how you define it. Its not in their nature as a race to act in such a manner. I would say its in their nature as a culture to act that way. They grow up in a gangster-thug MTV culture, where its cool to be a pimp, treat women like shit, and to act like you're a hardcore 'killa'. They go out of their way to act different, and look different by the way they dress. Now its their God-given right, not to mention a Constitutional right, to act and behave as they want, but thats what is holding them back. Not Chez Whitey.

I would put "culture" under the realm of Socioeconomic conditions. Where would you put it? I'm not sure I understand the difference here.

In other words, I think you are agreeing with MFM just putting it in different words.

Immie

CockySOB

03-21-2008, 08:46 AM

I would attribute it to socioeconomic conditions and not NATURE.

Don't feel like attributing the problem to NURTURE. Because when you make a statement like you just did, you are claiming that the attitude of the people in these communities. Are you embracing the soft racism of the left which says that the poor blacks can't be to blame for their CHOICES? Are you claiming that the poor black people NEED nice, white people like yourself to help them do anything of merit because they can't do for themselves?

Maintaining and promulgating the victim/entitlement mentality is a CHOICE! And it is a choice the demagogues of the Democrats thrive on, because it keeps the slaves on the plantation. Even the black demagogues who insist on calling conservative blacks names ("Uncle Clarence [Thomas]" and "Conda-sleeza") or throw Oreos are black conservative poltiicians (remember Mike Steele?) are guilty of keeping the black population down.

Kathianne

03-21-2008, 08:48 AM

I would put "culture" under the realm of Socioeconomic conditions. Where would you put it? I'm not sure I understand the difference here.

In other words, I think you are agreeing with MFM just putting it in different words.

Immie

Socioeconomic groupings fall 'within' the culture. I would say that crime/violence are factors within socioeconomic groups, that can be further influenced by indoctrination found within those groups, (ie., gangs, churches, youth/community groups).

CockySOB

03-21-2008, 08:56 AM

Its not socioeconomic conditions that causes it. It may or may not be "nature" but that depends on how you define it. Its not in their nature as a race to act in such a manner. I would say its in their nature as a culture to act that way. They grow up in a gangster-thug MTV culture, where its cool to be a pimp, treat women like shit, and to act like you're a hardcore 'killa'. They go out of their way to act different, and look different by the way they dress. Now its their God-given right, not to mention a Constitutional right, to act and behave as they want, but thats what is holding them back. Not Chez Whitey.

Nurture. The attitudes you speak of are cultivated and nurtured generation after generation as a matter of choice. Many blacks break this cycle and leave the fold, only to have the demagogues turn on them as race traitors and turncoats.

The bold text from your statement is spot on.

retiredman

03-21-2008, 09:13 AM

Have you spent much time around African Americans? I have in the military and there is a distinct difference in their appraisal of the world than that of whites. I think, as a group they consider themselves superior to whites and Rev. Wright pointed this out when he talked down about President Bush with his C grades when a black man is much superior.

My appraisal is based on professional blacks, doctors, lawyers and leaders of men. These black professionals are exactly that and equal in every manner to whites but if you observe them in free time in a black only crowd they turn tribal and can be equal to the lowest privates (low ranking soldiers) in their actions. In this setting with a low ranking black private in the group it is clear that they consider a blood relationship stronger than any respect for a white of their equal accomplishments. They go tribal.

yeah. I spent a quarter of a century in uniform, pal. I am saying that there is nothing GENETIC...nothing preprogrammed by NATURE...that makes black people any more violent or any less smart or any better atheletes or anything different than any other human beings except for their skin pigmentation... and people like YOU who do believe that blacks are naturally more violent are racists...pure and simple.

CockySOB

03-21-2008, 09:38 AM

yeah. I spent a quarter of a century in uniform, pal. I am saying that there is nothing GENETIC...nothing preprogrammed by NATURE...that makes black people any more violent or any less smart or any better atheletes or anything different than any other human beings except for their skin pigmentation... and people like YOU who do believe that blacks are naturally more violent are racists...pure and simple.

Pot calling the kettle black, eh.

retiredman

03-21-2008, 10:39 AM

Pot calling the kettle black, eh.

why would you say that? I am not a racist in any way.

Pale Rider

03-21-2008, 10:57 AM

I'll bet you believe that they are not as smart as whites either, don't you? I'll bet that you and Pale Rider can stand at the window of a maternity ward looking down at a black infant and you just KNOW, don't you, that that little "nigger" will grow up stupid and violent and will, no doubt, want to rape your lily white grand daughter. You see....where I come from, that attitude is called RACISM!

You're over the top and out of control mfm. You're racist african candidate has been exposed as a liar and racist, so you in turn say nothing about it, but everybody else who hasn't said anything racist is all of sudden racist in your view. You're cracked pal. Plumb out of your mind and full of shit son.

CockySOB

03-21-2008, 11:05 AM

why would you say that? I am not a racist in any way.

Go back and read my last couple of posts to you. You very seemingly embrace the soft racism which permeates the Democratic party - lower expectations for blacks, and a steadfast refusal to place the blame for attitudes like Wright's and Meeks' (and Obama's it would seem) squarely on the shoulders of the portion of the black community which cultivates and nurtures those attitudes in generation after generation.

"socioeconomic conditions???"

No blame to the people who actually foster and nurture the victim and entitlement mentalities of that culture, eh? Just make excuses and go back to lambasting the people who claim the problems are somehow genetic. Cover your soft racism by bemoaning the hard racism of those who claim that it's genetic. Decrying the blatant racism is easy adn distracting, but the hurdle of soft racism which the Democrats have instilled and institutionalized over time is the REAL battle which needs fought.

Yurt

03-21-2008, 02:44 PM

The "10-point vision" that used to be on the site said "black" this and "black" that. Yes, they took it all down. It was racist, and you know it.

Pale, found hannity talking about those points, you were right, they were up there and now are not.

1:10 into the video

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GW in Ohio

03-21-2008, 02:56 PM

jimnyc

03-21-2008, 03:01 PM

Funny....

Every time I used to mention George Bush's disastrous poll numbers around here, the resident right wingers would either:

Say that polls don't mean anything. Or...
Challenge the authenticity of the poll. ("The New York Times/CBS Poll? It's nothing but a left-wing propaganda tool.")
But now that a poll indicates that Barack Obama's popularity may be slipping, right wingers are holding the poll results aloft and dancing in the streets.

Curious, eh?

Say thanks to the resident dipshit, truthmatters. She taught us that these polls are the gospel. In fact, did you know that major financial companies make major financial decisions based solely on zogby's and rasmussen's polls?

Yurt

03-21-2008, 03:17 PM

Funny....

Every time I used to mention George Bush's disastrous poll numbers around here, the resident right wingers would either:

Say that polls don't mean anything. Or...
Challenge the authenticity of the poll. ("The New York Times/CBS Poll? It's nothing but a left-wing propaganda tool.")

But now that a poll indicates that Barack Obama's popularity may be slipping, right wingers are holding the poll results aloft and dancing in the streets.

Curious, eh?

thats not true. many told you that congress, dem controlled, had lower support numbers. before you spread bull, make sure you're not standing behind the cow....

retiredman

03-21-2008, 03:19 PM

You're over the top and out of control mfm. You're racist african candidate has been exposed as a liar and racist, so you in turn say nothing about it, but everybody else who hasn't said anything racist is all of sudden racist in your view. You're cracked pal. Plumb out of your mind and full of shit son.

I am not the one who said that blacks as a race were more violent by nature. you did. that statement stands as profoundly racist without any need for interpretation or embellishment. that's a fact.

retiredman

03-21-2008, 03:28 PM

Go back and read my last couple of posts to you. You very seemingly embrace the soft racism which permeates the Democratic party - lower expectations for blacks, and a steadfast refusal to place the blame for attitudes like Wright's and Meeks' (and Obama's it would seem) squarely on the shoulders of the portion of the black community which cultivates and nurtures those attitudes in generation after generation.

"socioeconomic conditions???"

No blame to the people who actually foster and nurture the victim and entitlement mentalities of that culture, eh? Just make excuses and go back to lambasting the people who claim the problems are somehow genetic. Cover your soft racism by bemoaning the hard racism of those who claim that it's genetic. Decrying the blatant racism is easy adn distracting, but the hurdle of soft racism which the Democrats have instilled and institutionalized over time is the REAL battle which needs fought.

by suggesting that black violence is not due to genetics as your friend pale rider suggests and attributing it to socioeconomic conditions does not remove any level of individual responsibility for violent actions. Growing up in a neighborhood of urban blight, poor schools, high unemployment, despair, crime, and drugs is not conducive to producing well adjusted, motivated young people. Finding a way to break that cycle is critical to ending it. That is simply common sense.

I also notice that you spend a lot of time decrying MY supposed "soft racism" but haven't said SHIT about the disgusting racist filth that is spewed by your pals. I'll wait to see if you have any balls.

stephanie

03-21-2008, 03:32 PM

Pfeeesh..

The word "racist" is being tossed around so much..it's almost becoming meaningless..

It's like...........who cares..

Dilloduck

03-21-2008, 03:35 PM

I'll bet you believe that they are not as smart as whites either, don't you? I'll bet that you and Pale Rider can stand at the window of a maternity ward looking down at a black infant and you just KNOW, don't you, that that little "nigger" will grow up stupid and violent and will, no doubt, want to rape your lily white grand daughter. You see....where I come from, that attitude is called RACISM!

Are you labeling me as a "typical white person" again? Betcha a dollar I hung out, worked and laughed with more blacks than you did today. You're assumptions are ancient and :lame2:.

retiredman

03-21-2008, 03:36 PM

Pfeeesh..

The word "racist" is being tossed around so much..it's almost becoming meaningless..

It's like...........who cares..

what if pale rider had said that women were more stupid than men by nature? how would that have set with you?

mundame

03-21-2008, 03:36 PM

Pfeeesh..

The word "racist" is being tossed around so much..it's almost becoming meaningless..

It's like...........who cares..

Well, what does it mean?

A few days ago racism meant mentioning race AT ALL, even referring to race.

We got past that: now we can talk about race.

So now what does "racism" mean?

mundame

03-21-2008, 03:39 PM

what if pale rider had said that women were more stupid than men by nature? how would that have set with you?

It wouldn't have bothered me because it would be silly on the face of it (and I doubt pale rider would have said it) -------- men are the problem in this world, after all, and women are usually the solution: we take care of the kids and elderly and disabled persons when the men leave; we keep the homes; we cook the food; we keep the peace when there is war raging.

An obviously counterfactual statement isn't a problem.

retiredman

03-21-2008, 03:44 PM

It wouldn't have bothered me because it would be silly on the face of it (and I doubt pale rider would have said it) -------- men are the problem in this world, after all, and women are usually the solution: we take care of the kids and elderly and disabled persons when the men leave; we keep the homes; we cook the food; we keep the peace when there is war raging.

An obviously counterfactual statement isn't a problem.

if there are people who actually believe that one ethnic group is genetically more violent, having reasonable discussions with them is problematic. And it is rather annoying to be attacked by people from the right for my supposed "soft racism" - whatever that means - while they completely give a free pass to blatant bigots on their own side.

Dilloduck

03-21-2008, 03:51 PM

if there are people who actually believe that one ethnic group is genetically more violent, having reasonable discussions with them is problematic. And it is rather annoying to be attacked by people from the right for my supposed "soft racism" - whatever that means - while they completely give a free pass to blatant bigots on their own side.

Soft racism is treating people like shit by refusing to allow them to be responsible for their own actions. Why don't you just called them incompetent victims and be done with it?

CockySOB

03-21-2008, 04:07 PM

by suggesting that black violence is not due to genetics as your friend pale rider suggests and attributing it to socioeconomic conditions does not remove any level of individual responsibility for violent actions. Growing up in a neighborhood of urban blight, poor schools, high unemployment, despair, crime, and drugs is not conducive to producing well adjusted, motivated young people. Finding a way to break that cycle is critical to ending it. That is simply common sense.

I also notice that you spend a lot of time decrying MY supposed "soft racism" but haven't said SHIT about the disgusting racist filth that is spewed by your pals. I'll wait to see if you have any balls.

LOL! Someone want to set this moron straight? Pale and I have had our little knock-down, drag-out fights over the very topic. Maybe you need to pull your head out of your bum more often and see what's going on.

Douche.

Kathianne

03-21-2008, 04:13 PM

by suggesting that black violence is not due to genetics as your friend pale rider suggests and attributing it to socioeconomic conditions does not remove any level of individual responsibility for violent actions. Growing up in a neighborhood of urban blight, poor schools, high unemployment, despair, crime, and drugs is not conducive to producing well adjusted, motivated young people. Finding a way to break that cycle is critical to ending it. That is simply common sense.

I also notice that you spend a lot of time decrying MY supposed "soft racism" but haven't said SHIT about the disgusting racist filth that is spewed by your pals. I'll wait to see if you have any balls.

I don't have any balls. I don't think it's my place to address issues like that in a personal way, rather I stated what was my opinion. The problems with black crime violence are a function of socioeconomic subcultures, that can be ameliorated with proper parenting, church affiliation, youth groups, etc. It takes an adult that connects with the kid. Too few and far between especially males. I blame the state for making males adults irrelevant in the family.

retiredman

03-21-2008, 05:51 PM

Soft racism is treating people like shit by refusing to allow them to be responsible for their own actions. Why don't you just called them incompetent victims and be done with it?

I have NEVER advocated any policy that refuses to allow people to be responsible for their own actions. What ridiculously erroneous rhetoric!

retiredman

03-21-2008, 05:54 PM

I don't have any balls. I don't think it's my place to address issues like that in a personal way, rather I stated what was my opinion. The problems with black crime violence are a function of socioeconomic subcultures, that can be ameliorated with proper parenting, church affiliation, youth groups, etc. It takes an adult that connects with the kid. Too few and far between especially males. I blame the state for making males adults irrelevant in the family.

Actually, my comments about balls were aimed specifically at another purportedly male poster. I do not disagree with anything you have said.... I agree that the state has a major role to play in perpetuating the welfare state, but, given the state's belief that it has a moral obligation to help otherwise helpless children, it is difficult to break the cycle, I will admit.

retiredman

03-21-2008, 06:01 PM

LOL! Someone want to set this moron straight? Pale and I have had our little knock-down, drag-out fights over the very topic. Maybe you need to pull your head out of your bum more often and see what's going on.

Douche.

I will admit that I do not spend a great deal of my time searching out the posts of either you OR pale rider but only engage you when you happen to catch my eye in a thread that otherwise interests me, or when you reply to me. Other than that, I really don't read much of your stuff... and based upon what I DO read, that preference seems to be validated. If not following you around to witness your tiffs with others is behavior that you would characterize as putting my head up ass, I would suggest that such a view was unnaturally egocentric and you need to get over yourself.

The fact remains... I am not a racist. I do not view any race as superior to any other. I believe that society should play a role in caring for those less fortunate members of our society regardless of their skin color. Feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, healing the sick and protecting the children IS what Jesus would want us to do.

Yurt

03-21-2008, 06:30 PM

I will admit that I do not spend a great deal of my time searching out the posts of either you OR pale rider but only engage you when you happen to catch my eye in a thread that otherwise interests me, or when you reply to me. Other than that, I really don't read much of your stuff... and based upon what I DO read, that preference seems to be validated. If not following you around to witness your tiffs with others is behavior that you would characterize as putting my head up ass, I would suggest that such a view was unnaturally egocentric and you need to get over yourself.

The fact remains... I am not a racist. I do not view any race as superior to any other. I believe that society should play a role in caring for those less fortunate members of our society regardless of their skin color. Feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, healing the sick and protecting the children IS what Jesus would want us to do.

i don't think jesus made race such a divisive issue.....and he did not tell us to commit to one land over another, he said to go into all the world

Kathianne

03-21-2008, 06:47 PM

I will admit that I do not spend a great deal of my time searching out the posts of either you OR pale rider but only engage you when you happen to catch my eye in a thread that otherwise interests me, or when you reply to me. Other than that, I really don't read much of your stuff... and based upon what I DO read, that preference seems to be validated. If not following you around to witness your tiffs with others is behavior that you would characterize as putting my head up ass, I would suggest that such a view was unnaturally egocentric and you need to get over yourself.

The fact remains... I am not a racist. I do not view any race as superior to any other. I believe that society should play a role in caring for those less fortunate members of our society regardless of their skin color. Feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, healing the sick and protecting the children IS what Jesus would want us to do.

But he did say, "Render unto Caesar..." do you really think he wants the poor to be treated as children of the state? I don't. It's why I argue vehemently for private over state. Private tends to want to help those needy overcome the obstacles, the state teaches how to survive with their handouts, perpetuating the neediness and reinforcing victim status.

Sitarro

03-21-2008, 07:29 PM

How do the apologist for black behavior come up with a reason for Darfur, Uganda, and most of the countries through out Africa...... it's the white man right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC4V9i7Ya4Y

As is proven everyday, even upon becoming very rich and leaving the ghetto, black celebrities and atheletes rape, murder and do all other forms of lawlessness....... is that whitey's fault too for making them rich?

Dilloduck

03-21-2008, 07:32 PM

I don't have any balls. I don't think it's my place to address issues like that in a personal way, rather I stated what was my opinion. The problems with black crime violence are a function of socioeconomic subcultures, that can be ameliorated with proper parenting, church affiliation, youth groups, etc. It takes an adult that connects with the kid. Too few and far between especially males. I blame the state for making males adults irrelevant in the family.

Whose responsibility is it that young blacks today grow up thinking that whitey owes them ? Who teaches them that the law is something that whitey invented and they don't have to obey ?

Kathianne

03-21-2008, 07:48 PM

Whose responsibility is it that young blacks today grow up thinking that whitey owes them ? Who teaches them that the law is something that whitey invented and they don't have to obey ?

Again, who is it raising the kid? Subgrouping of socioeconomic group.

diuretic

03-21-2008, 07:49 PM

Whose responsibility is it that young blacks today grow up thinking that whitey owes them ? Who teaches them that the law is something that whitey invented and they don't have to obey ?

Could it be the thousands of various sources of influence in society? What are the messages being fed to people by advertising for example?

Kathianne

03-21-2008, 07:51 PM

Could it be the thousands of various sources of influence in society? What are the messages being fed to people by advertising for example?

Now that is a logical fallacy. A gang or good parents or a significant couch/teacher or youth leader all might influence. Not tv, not radio, certainly not morning announcements over pa.

Dilloduck

03-21-2008, 07:59 PM

Again, who is it raising the kid? Subgrouping of socioeconomic group.

Subgrouping of socioeconomic group ? Who might that be ?

Dilloduck

03-21-2008, 08:01 PM

Could it be the thousands of various sources of influence in society? What are the messages being fed to people by advertising for example?

Blacks are so stupid that advertising makes them commit social suicide ?

mundame

03-21-2008, 08:31 PM

if there are people who actually believe that one ethnic group is genetically more violent, having reasonable discussions with them is problematic.

I don't see why people can't talk about that, manfrommaine. Oh, right, because any talk of race was incredibly taboo. But that was two weeks ago: this is now. We're SUPPOSED to be having a dialogue about race now.

Why shouldn't one racial group be more violent than another? Disposition to violence is clearly heritable: consider pit bulls. A Rottweiler is not as peaceable as a Bassett hound and everyone knows this.

I remember a young Norwegian man 20 years ago saying furiously that whites were the most violent race in the world: European leftism. He towered over me and I suddenly realized: he was a direct heir to the Vikings that constantly pillaged Britain and Ireland, when "going a-viking" was the normal way a Scandinavian acquired goods: why not? You landed the dragon-prowed boats, went berserk, killed and raped everyone, stole everything you could carry away and sailed back to Iceland with the cargo. All quite normal.

I decided he was right: whites ARE the most violent race. And it's plain we are more violent than blacks on the face of it --- every type of European whites kept black slaves by the dozen and hundreds at a time for centuries! Whites could hardly have done that if they weren't more aggressive than blacks.

No, whatever the differences between whites and blacks are -- and I think there some crucial differences -- more aggression of black males can't be what's going on.

Kathianne

03-21-2008, 08:46 PM

Subgrouping of socioeconomic group ? Who might that be ?

Already answered:

A gang or good parents or a significant couch/teacher or youth leader all might influence. Not tv, not radio, certainly not morning announcements over pa.
Reply With Quote

Dilloduck

03-21-2008, 08:53 PM

Already answered:

With absent dads I guess it's all moms fault---that and those churches that they go to. :laugh2:

Kathianne

03-21-2008, 08:55 PM

With absent dads I guess it's all moms fault---that and those churches that they go to. :laugh2:

Again, already responded to. Gov't and welfare. Get a new goat. :fu:

Dilloduck

03-21-2008, 08:58 PM

Again, already responded to. Gov't and welfare. Get a new goat. :fu:

Questions have question marks at the end of a sentence, Nanny.

With absent dads I guess it's all moms fault---that and those churches that they go to

That wasn't a question.

Kathianne

03-21-2008, 09:03 PM

Questions have question marks at the end of a sentence, Nanny.

That wasn't a question.

#1 no question.
#2 Not my post.

Fuktard. What IS your problem? Note question mark?

diuretic

03-21-2008, 10:14 PM

Now that is a logical fallacy. A gang or good parents or a significant couch/teacher or youth leader all might influence. Not tv, not radio, certainly not morning announcements over pa.

Logical fallacy! Where's the smelling salts :laugh2:

Someone better tell Madison Avenue that the game's up, advertising doesn't work. No?

Kathianne

03-21-2008, 10:17 PM

Logical fallacy! Where's the smelling salts :laugh2:

Someone better tell Madison Avenue that the game's up, advertising doesn't work. No?

Madison Ave works via peer pressure on bb shoes to buy. It works for parents on the right car. It doesn't work so well on behavior day-to-day.

Pale Rider

03-22-2008, 03:25 AM

I don't see why people can't talk about that, manfrommaine. Oh, right, because any talk of race was incredibly taboo. But that was two weeks ago: this is now. We're SUPPOSED to be having a dialogue about race now.

Why shouldn't one racial group be more violent than another? Disposition to violence is clearly heritable: consider pit bulls. A Rottweiler is not as peaceable as a Bassett hound and everyone knows this.

I remember a young Norwegian man 20 years ago saying furiously that whites were the most violent race in the world: European leftism. He towered over me and I suddenly realized: he was a direct heir to the Vikings that constantly pillaged Britain and Ireland, when "going a-viking" was the normal way a Scandinavian acquired goods: why not? You landed the dragon-prowed boats, went berserk, killed and raped everyone, stole everything you could carry away and sailed back to Iceland with the cargo. All quite normal.

I decided he was right: whites ARE the most violent race. And it's plain we are more violent than blacks on the face of it --- every type of European whites kept black slaves by the dozen and hundreds at a time for centuries! Whites could hardly have done that if they weren't more aggressive than blacks.

No, whatever the differences between whites and blacks are -- and I think there some crucial differences -- more aggression of black males can't be what's going on.

When I made my statement to mfm, I was talking about now, not two thousand years ago. I have posted link, after link, after link, after link, to statistics, facts, studies, and even the FBI showing that by far, blacks are more violent than any other race present in America by an average of 9 to 1, and when they make up such a small percentage of the population, that equates out to a very, VERY violent race of people. All one has to do is google black violence, violence among blacks, black crime, black on white crime, or any other words you choose to use, and you will find there is thousands of links to page after page after page of statistics and facts gathered on the predisposition of blacks and violence. I'm through posting the links. I posted four of them right here in this thread only to be utterly ignored and questioned by mfm as if they were talking about a tea party instead of loaded down with facts on black violence. I refuse at this point to put forth any effort to help educate or convince such an ignorant and blind person that would lie to himself to such a degree.

Sitarro

03-22-2008, 05:27 AM

Congregational churches, which form the backbone of the UCC are the direct descendants of the Pilgrims. We don't have pastors who are movie star wannabes. We are the most egalitarian, unpretentious denomination in the protestant spectrum. Your profound ignorance about my denomination is breathtaking, but not unexpected.

Here is the history of your "church", I could almost give a shit. It is still nothing but a social club that people go to network and listen to a "holier than though" clown spout off their interpretation of a book that shouldn't need interpretation. Why would I want to spend my time in a building built by man listening to some man when I can venture into GOD's creation and listen to what we are blessed with in nature. I feel closer to GOD while playing a round of golf than sitting in some pretentious building around a bunch of fake jerks that think that if they give money they will be saved. By the way, once my arm is healed, I would be happy to come up there an play you 100 dollars a hole on any golf course you feel comfortable getting your ass kicked on. We could also have a driving contest on each hole for another hundred and closest to the hole on the par threes for a hundred too. You would be beat before you got out of your car in the parking lot.:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congregational_church#United_States

The Pilgrims sought to establish at Plymouth Colony a Christian fellowship like that which gathered around Jesus Himself. Congregationalists include the Pilgrims of Plymouth, and the Puritans of the Massachusetts Bay Colony, which were organized in union by The Cambridge Platform in 1648. These settlers had John Cotton as their most influential leader, beginning in 1633. Cotton's writings persuaded the Calvinist theologian John Owen to separate from the Presbyterian church, after which he, among others, became very influential in the development of Congregationalist theology and ideas of church government. Jonathan Edwards, considered by some to be the most important theologian ever produced in America, was also a Congregationalist.
The history of Congregational churches in the United States is closely intertwined with that of American Presbyterianism, especially in New England where Congregationalist influence spilled over into the Presbyterian churches farther west. Some of the first colleges and universities in America, including Harvard, Yale, Dartmouth, Williams, Bowdoin, Middlebury, and Amherst, all were founded by the Congregationalists, as were later Carleton, Grinnell, Oberlin, Beloit, and Pomona.
Without higher courts to ensure doctrinal uniformity among the congregations, Congregationalists have been more diverse than other Reformed churches. Despite the efforts of Calvinists to maintain the dominance of their system, some Congregational churches, especially in the older settlements of New England, gradually developed sentiments toward Arminianism, Unitarianism, Deism, and transcendentalism. By the 1750s, several Congregational preachers were teaching the possibility of universal salvation, an issue that caused considerable conflict among its adherents on the one side and hard-line Calvinists and sympathizers of the First Great Awakening on the other. The first church in America with an openly Unitarian theology was established in Boston, Massachusetts in 1785 (although in a former Anglican parish) and by 1800, all but one Congregational church in Boston had Unitarian preachers teaching the strict unity of God, the subordinate nature of Christ, and salvation by character. Harvard University, founded by Congregationalists, itself became a source of Unitarian training. Eventually, the Unitarian churches, prompted by a controversy over a theological appointment to Harvard, separated from Congregationalism in 1825; most of its descendants now hold membership in the Unitarian Universalist Association, founded in the 1960s by a merger with the theologically-similar Universalists, another group dissenting from Calvinist orthodoxy.
Thus, the Congregational churches were at the same time the first example of the American theocratic ideal (and subsequent evangelicalism) and also the seed-bed from which American liberal religion and society arose. Even still, many Congregationalists in the several successor denominations to the original tradition consider themselves to be Reformed first, whether of traditional or neo-orthodox persuasion.
In 1931 the Congregational Churches and the General Convention of the Christian Church, a body from the Restoration Movement tradition of the early 19th century, merged to form the Congregational Christian Churches. The Congregationalists were used to a more formal, less evangelistic form of worship than the Christian Church members, who mostly came from rural areas of the South and the Midwest. Both groups, however, held to local autonomy and eschewed binding creedal authority.

retiredman

03-22-2008, 08:50 AM

When I made my statement to mfm, I was talking about now, not two thousand years ago. I have posted link, after link, after link, after link, to statistics, facts, studies, and even the FBI showing that by far, blacks are more violent than any other race present in America by an average of 9 to 1, and when they make up such a small percentage of the population, that equates out to a very, VERY violent race of people. All one has to do is google black violence, violence among blacks, black crime, black on white crime, or any other words you choose to use, and you will find there is thousands of links to page after page after page of statistics and facts gathered on the predisposition of blacks and violence. I'm through posting the links. I posted four of them right here in this thread only to be utterly ignored and questioned by mfm as if they were talking about a tea party instead of loaded down with facts on black violence. I refuse at this point to put forth any effort to help educate or convince such an ignorant and blind person that would lie to himself to such a degree.

culture, society, economics, are not NATURE. Nature was YOUR word. either retract it, or admit you are a racist. really that simple.

Pale Rider

03-22-2008, 02:03 PM

culture, society, economics, are not NATURE. Nature was YOUR word. either retract it, or admit you are a racist. really that simple.

Well... you're name calling and spin isn't holding water mfm, neither are your excuses. Blacks kill more of each other over in Africa than any other part of the world too. More excuses? Black neighborhoods in America, even if brand, spankin' new when they move in, are turned into run down, busted up, dilapidated shit holes of crime, theft, rape and murder by gang bangers. More excuses? There's nothing racist about the facts, and facts are facts. Wake up and smell the coffee.

You've really disappointed me lately mfm. When I really had the impression you were an intelligent, sophisticated man, you turn out to be just another garden variety, run of mill, head buried where it shouldn't be, liberal apologist. Not try to call names.... just trying to describe you.

retiredman

03-22-2008, 02:08 PM

culture, society, economics, are not NATURE. Nature was YOUR word. either retract it, or admit you are a racist. really that simple.

so...two babies - one white, one black - taken from their mother at birth and raised in ...let's say.. Outer Mongolia. According to you, the black baby will grow up to be more violent than the white baby because, as you continue to postulate, blacks are more violent BY NATURE.

I am not trying to call you names either, but that is racist, pure and simple.

Similar attitudes on the part of Germans towards Jews led to the Holocaust.

Pale Rider

03-22-2008, 02:11 PM

so...two babies - one white, one black - taken from their mother at birth and raised in ...let's say.. Outer Mongolia. According to you, the black baby will grow up to be more violent than the white baby because, as you continue to postulate, blacks are more violent BY NATURE.

I am not trying to call you names either, but that is racist, pure and simple.

Similar attitudes on the part of Germans towards Jews led to the Holocaust.

Black people create their own environment, which is inherently, a more violent one, yes, period. That is what the facts bear out. Sorry you don't like that, but that's the way it is. White countries and neighborhoods are more peaceful because white people are more peaceful by nature. Black nations and neighborhoods are more violent because black people are more violent by nature. Those are the facts.

Now lets test you... if you could choose to either live in a predominantly white neighborhood or a black neighborhood, both poor, where would you rather live and why?

retiredman

03-22-2008, 02:13 PM

Black people create their own environment, which is inherently, a more violent one, yes, period. That is what the facts bear out. Sorry you don't like that, but that's the way it is. White countries and neighborhoods are more peaceful because white people are more peaceful by nature. Black nations and neighborhoods are more violent because black people are more violent by nature. Those are the facts.

why did you dodge my scenario?

do you even understand what the phrase "BY NATURE" means?????

Pale Rider

03-22-2008, 02:17 PM

Pale Rider

03-22-2008, 02:19 PM

why did you dodge my scenario?

do you even understand what the phrase "BY NATURE" means?????

You're going to lose me here mfm.... don't play games. I answered your damn question to the best of my ability. If you don't like the answer, that's just tough.

Now go back and answer the question I edited into my last post.

retiredman

03-22-2008, 02:31 PM

You're going to lose me here mfm.... don't play games. I answered your damn question to the best of my ability. If you don't like the answer, that's just tough.

Now go back and answer the question I edited into my last post.

your refusal to acknowledge the difference between culture and nature has LOST me.

retiredman

03-22-2008, 02:34 PM

Here's a website apparently for blacks to discuss black on black crime in Clevland, Ohio. http://www.blackonblackcrimeinc.org/ Tell me... what country is outlined front and center on their homepage, and why?

there IS no country outlined front and center on their homepage.

What country would be outlined in a drawing of the landmass that lies between the isthmus of panama and tierra del fuego?

Pale Rider

03-23-2008, 04:27 AM

your refusal to acknowledge the difference between culture and nature has LOST me.
You're trying to convince me of something I disagree with, and you can't prove. It is my belief that nature dictates culture. Not the other way around.

there IS no country outlined front and center on their homepage.

What country would be outlined in a drawing of the landmass that lies between the isthmus of panama and tierra del fuego?
Country... continent... you're nit picking and parsing to avoid answering direct questions... again. "AFRICA" mfm.... "AFRICA." Now why is it blacks living and more than likely BORN in America have the outline of another continent on their homepage? You know, similar to hussein's church, who it's congregation decried allegiance to? If they're Americans, why do that do that?

Yurt

03-23-2008, 12:41 PM

You're trying to convince me of something I disagree with, and you can't prove. It is my belief that nature dictates culture. Not the other way around.

Country... continent... you're nit picking and parsing to avoid answering direct questions... again. "AFRICA" mfm.... "AFRICA." Now why is it blacks living and more than likely BORN in America have the outline of another continent on their homepage? You know, similar to hussein's church, who it's congregation decried allegiance to? If they're Americans, why do that do that?

and why is it they think africa somehow belongs only to them

Pale Rider

03-24-2008, 01:07 AM

and why is it they think africa somehow belongs only to them

The question at hand, that our board black excuse king mfm is ignoring, is why blacks that were born and bread in America and want to discuss violence among themselves here in America, have the outline of another continent on their homepage.... I'm waiting for that to be explained.....

retiredman

03-24-2008, 06:24 AM

The question at hand, that our board black excuse king mfm is ignoring, is why blacks that were born and bread in America and want to discuss violence among themselves here in America, have the outline of another continent on their homepage.... I'm waiting for that to be explained.....

because it is their homeland? It is the land from which their ancestors were taken in chains against their will? In discussing black on black violence, an outline of the continent of africa certainly symbolizes the root of their problem, wouldn't you think?

Dilloduck

03-24-2008, 06:28 AM

retiredman

03-24-2008, 06:34 AM

No--how is Africa a part of the "problem" ?

it is the common root for black on black violence. Nearly all blacks in America can trace their heritage back to people who were brought here as property from Africa. Regardless of the differences that breed black on black gang violence, they all have africa in common.

Is that so hard to understand? really? or is this just another monday morning willingfully ignorant dilloduck game?

Dilloduck

03-24-2008, 06:45 AM

it is the common root for black on black violence. Nearly all blacks in America can trace their heritage back to people who were brought here as property from Africa. Regardless of the differences that breed black on black gang violence, they all have africa in common.

Is that so hard to understand? really? or is this just another monday morning willingfully ignorant dilloduck game?

If Africa is the common root for black on black violence, I guess whitey is off the hook then. Or are you saying that whichever slave trader took them from Africa caused the problem ?

retiredman

03-24-2008, 06:49 AM

If Africa is the common root for black on black violence, I guess whitey is off the hook then. Or are you saying that whichever slave trader took them from Africa caused the problem ?

africa is something the protagonists of black on black violence have in common. wouldn't you agree?

Dilloduck

03-24-2008, 06:56 AM

africa is something the protagonists of black on black violence have in common. wouldn't you agree?

one of millions----is being sold into slavery by African Blacks something that unites them. I would think it would be a seen as evidence of betrayal by one's own race.

retiredman

03-24-2008, 07:08 AM

one of millions----is being sold into slavery by African Blacks something that unites them. I would think it would be a seen as evidence of betrayal by one's own race.

something can be a commonly held experience and not necessarily be a unifying experience. I suggested the former, never the latter.

Dilloduck

03-24-2008, 07:16 AM

something can be a commonly held experience and not necessarily be a unifying experience. I suggested the former, never the latter.

They all came from Africa---so they use the continent as a unifying symbol. Maybe they should pick a continent that that didn't betray them and this continental symbolism might actually work. The "we're all Africans here" thingy doesn't appear to be working very well in stopping them from killing each other. It could be because modern Africans are still slaughtering each other.

No1tovote4

03-24-2008, 09:47 AM

No1tovote4

03-24-2008, 09:48 AM

They all came from Africa---so they use the continent as a unifying symbol. Maybe they should pick a continent that that didn't betray them and this continental symbolism might actually work. The "we're all Africans here" thingy doesn't appear to be working very well in stopping them from killing each other. It could be because modern Africans are still slaughtering each other.
And enslaving each other. Little has changed since the US stopped allowing even those who 'owned' slaves from purchasing new ones from that continent.

Yurt

03-24-2008, 09:52 AM

because it is their homeland? It is the land from which their ancestors were taken in chains against their will? In discussing black on black violence, an outline of the continent of africa certainly symbolizes the root of their problem, wouldn't you think?

apparently not:

Settlers from the United States
In 1822, the American Colonization Society established Liberia as a place to send freed African-American slaves. [5] African-Americans gradually migrated to the colony and became known as Americo-Liberians, where many present day Liberians trace their ancestry. On July 26, 1847, the Americo-Liberian settlers declared the independence of the Republic of Liberia.

The settlers regarded Africa as a "Promised Land", but they did not integrate into an African society. Once in Africa, they referred to themselves as "Americans" and were recognized as such by local Africans and by British colonial authorities in neighbouring Sierra Leone. The symbols of their state — its flag, motto, and seal — and the form of government that they chose reflected their American background and diaspora experience. Lincoln University (founded as Ashmun Institute for educating young blacks in Pennsylvania in 1854) played an important role in supplying Americo-Liberians leadership for the new Nation. The first graduating class of Lincoln University, James R. Amos, his brother Thomas H. Amos, and Armistead Miller sailed for Liberia on the brig Mary C. Stevens in April, 1859 after graduation.

Mutual mistrust and hostility between the "Americans" along the coast and the "Natives" of the interior was a recurrent theme in the country's history, along with (usually successful) attempts by the Americo-Liberian minority to dominate the what they identified to be savage native peoples. They named the land "Liberia," which in the Romance languages, and in Latin in particular, means "Land of the Free," as an homage to their freedom from slavery.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberia#Settlers_from_the_United_States

retiredman

03-24-2008, 12:52 PM

apparently not:

Settlers from the United States
In 1822, the American Colonization Society established Liberia as a place to send freed African-American slaves. [5] African-Americans gradually migrated to the colony and became known as Americo-Liberians, where many present day Liberians trace their ancestry. On July 26, 1847, the Americo-Liberian settlers declared the independence of the Republic of Liberia.

The settlers regarded Africa as a "Promised Land", but they did not integrate into an African society. Once in Africa, they referred to themselves as "Americans" and were recognized as such by local Africans and by British colonial authorities in neighbouring Sierra Leone. The symbols of their state — its flag, motto, and seal — and the form of government that they chose reflected their American background and diaspora experience. Lincoln University (founded as Ashmun Institute for educating young blacks in Pennsylvania in 1854) played an important role in supplying Americo-Liberians leadership for the new Nation. The first graduating class of Lincoln University, James R. Amos, his brother Thomas H. Amos, and Armistead Miller sailed for Liberia on the brig Mary C. Stevens in April, 1859 after graduation.

Mutual mistrust and hostility between the "Americans" along the coast and the "Natives" of the interior was a recurrent theme in the country's history, along with (usually successful) attempts by the Americo-Liberian minority to dominate the what they identified to be savage native peoples. They named the land "Liberia," which in the Romance languages, and in Latin in particular, means "Land of the Free," as an homage to their freedom from slavery.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberia#Settlers_from_the_United_States

what the hell does the fact that African-American slaves had a difficult time re-integrating into African society have to do with the fact that black on black violence stems from the concept that the anger and despair felt by decsendants of black slaves living in a predominantly white society leads to anti-social behavior?

You can't really be a lawyer. I am the son of a really good trial lawyer and if I had ever tried to twist an argument off course like that with MY father, he would have laughed me out of the room.:laugh2:

Trigg

03-24-2008, 01:46 PM

Yurt

03-24-2008, 01:59 PM

what the hell does the fact that African-American slaves had a difficult time re-integrating into African society have to do with the fact that black on black violence stems from the concept that the anger and despair felt by decsendants of black slaves living in a predominantly white society leads to anti-social behavior?

You can't really be a lawyer. I am the son of a really good trial lawyer and if I had ever tried to twist an argument off course like that with MY father, he would have laughed me out of the room.:laugh2:

maybe your dad wasn't as good as me by making arguments fit his position .....:dance: let me show you how my argument has merit:

you said
because it is their homeland? I showed that not all blacks consider it their homeland and when blacks do go back (almost 200 years ago) they do not in fact consider it their homeland. like the rest of immigrants, forced or not, they came to realize that this is their "homeland" and when they did go back, they thought african blacks were "savages"

my point is -- why the focus on africa, when history has shown they do not choose to go back and when they do, they consider themselves superior the "savages." why not accept america?

retiredman

03-24-2008, 02:31 PM

maybe your dad wasn't as good as me by making arguments fit his position .....:dance: let me show you how my argument has merit:

you said I showed that not all blacks consider it their homeland and when blacks do go back (almost 200 years ago) they do not in fact consider it their homeland. like the rest of immigrants, forced or not, they came to realize that this is their "homeland" and when they did go back, they thought african blacks were "savages"

my point is -- why the focus on africa, when history has shown they do not choose to go back and when they do, they consider themselves superior the "savages." why not accept america?

My grandmother came over from Ireland as a little girl. Ireland is, in a sense, my homeland. That does not mean that I want to abandon my life in America and move to the Emerald Isle. It does mean that I celebrate and honor my Irish heritage. It does mean that I am a bit more concerned with what goes on in Ireland than I am with what goes on in, say, Albania, even though neither of them is the country in which I was born.

Blacks have had an historically raw deal in America from day one. That history has led to blacks being marginalized and relegated to lower slices of our socioeconomic strata than white people. That denigration and marginalization has bred anger and that anger manifests itself in violence - not only black on white violence, but black on black violence. The root cause for that is the fact that the marginalization is an aftermath of slavery and slavery happened when the blacks were taken hostage IN AFRICA, and sold in America as property.

And does "accepting America" require blacks, or anyone else, to accept it "as is" or can blacks, or anyone else, be politically active to create change?

Yurt

03-24-2008, 02:48 PM

My grandmother came over from Ireland as a little girl. Ireland is, in a sense, my homeland. That does not mean that I want to abandon my life in America and move to the Emerald Isle. It does mean that I celebrate and honor my Irish heritage. It does mean that I am a bit more concerned with what goes on in Ireland than I am with what goes on in, say, Albania, even though neither of them is the country in which I was born.

Blacks have had an historically raw deal in America from day one. That history has led to blacks being marginalized and relegated to lower slices of our socioeconomic strata than white people. That denigration and marginalization has bred anger and that anger manifests itself in violence - not only black on white violence, but black on black violence. The root cause for that is the fact that the marginalization is an aftermath of slavery and slavery happened when the blacks were taken hostage IN AFRICA, and sold in America as property.

And does "accepting America" require blacks, or anyone else, to accept it "as is" or can blacks, or anyone else, be politically active to create change?

absolutely be politically active to create change. however, it is weak at best and intellectually dishonest at worst, to merely blame the situation on someone or something else. violence, rapes, prejudice, war continues among black africans in africa, today. slavery still exists there. also, what about the bushmen that black africans virtually annihilated? blaming all the so-called ills of the black man in america on slavery and whites is foolish.

real change will not occur until responsibility for ones own behavior takes place. i've worked with some inmates, black, brown, white, and those who take personal responsibility for their actions, regardless of how bad their life was when the committed the crime, are the ones who tend to get parole and make a difference.

you mentioned the irish heritage, my guess is, you view ireland with respect and as you said more interest than another country, but i doubt you swear homage to ireland and have a non-negotiable commitment to ireland. that is what i mean by accepting this country if they are going to stay here.

retiredman

03-24-2008, 02:59 PM

absolutely be politically active to create change. however, it is weak at best and intellectually dishonest at worst, to merely blame the situation on someone or something else. violence, rapes, prejudice, war continues among black africans in africa, today. slavery still exists there. also, what about the bushmen that black africans virtually annihilated? blaming all the so-called ills of the black man in america on slavery and whites is foolish.

real change will not occur until responsibility for ones own behavior takes place. i've worked with some inmates, black, brown, white, and those who take personal responsibility for their actions, regardless of how bad their life was when the committed the crime, are the ones who tend to get parole and make a difference.

you mentioned the irish heritage, my guess is, you view ireland with respect and as you said more interest than another country, but i doubt you swear homage to ireland and have a non-negotiable commitment to ireland. that is what i mean by accepting this country if they are going to stay here.

I have a non-negotiable commitment to my Irish heritage. I will not stop being the grandson of an Irishwoman, nor stop celebrating that fact.

I did not ever blame ALL the so-called ills of the black man in america on slavery and whites. That would indeed be foolish. Pretending that slavery and centuries of sub-human status as property is not the root cause for those ills is equally foolish.

Yurt

03-24-2008, 03:05 PM

I have a non-negotiable commitment to my Irish heritage. I will not stop being the grandson of an Irishwoman, nor stop celebrating that fact.

I did not ever blame ALL the so-called ills of the black man in america on slavery and whites. That would indeed be foolish. Pretending that slavery and centuries of sub-human status as property is not the root cause for those ills is equally foolish.

thats different from the candidate running for office of president of the United States of America who's commitment is to the country first and foremost. kinda hard to make an oath the US....anyway, we have been down this road, no need to rehash it.

i don't think it is a "root" cause. as i said, such behavior/conditions continue to exist among african blacks who have never been slaves. while i don't doubt that slavery has caused problems, it is not a root problem.

retiredman

03-24-2008, 03:19 PM

thats different from the candidate running for office of president of the United States of America who's commitment is to the country first and foremost. kinda hard to make an oath the US....anyway, we have been down this road, no need to rehash it.

i don't think it is a "root" cause. as i said, such behavior/conditions continue to exist among african blacks who have never been slaves. while i don't doubt that slavery has caused problems, it is not a root problem.

again.... in both instances above, you are entitled to your opinions, as I am mine. Just don't go trying to pass them off as facts.

manu1959

03-24-2008, 03:28 PM

retiredman

03-24-2008, 04:30 PM

which currently living blacks are property.....

who said any were?

Yurt

03-24-2008, 04:34 PM

again.... in both instances above, you are entitled to your opinions, as I am mine. Just don't go trying to pass them off as facts.

if your opinion about the root cause has merit, why then are blacks in africa who have never been slaves, also experiencing similar issues?

Pale Rider

03-24-2008, 04:40 PM

if your opinion about the root cause has merit, why then are blacks in africa who have never been slaves, also experiencing similar issues?

Because they're inherently violent by nature, and mfm has said nothing worth a hill of beans to disprove that. We've heard nothing but excuses and conjecture.

Yurt

03-24-2008, 04:45 PM

i put forth my assertion only for the proposition that .... bad stuff happens to people all over the world....those that succeed get over it and take personal responsible for their own actions.

manu1959

03-24-2008, 04:47 PM

who said any were?

you said....."Pretending that slavery and centuries of sub-human status as property is not the root cause for those ills is equally foolish."

please explain what you mean by the above statement.....i guess i don't get it....

CockySOB

03-24-2008, 05:57 PM

My grandmother came over from Ireland as a little girl. Ireland is, in a sense, my homeland. That does not mean that I want to abandon my life in America and move to the Emerald Isle. It does mean that I celebrate and honor my Irish heritage. It does mean that I am a bit more concerned with what goes on in Ireland than I am with what goes on in, say, Albania, even though neither of them is the country in which I was born.
How nice that your Irish ancestors came over of their free will. My own mother's father's (Irish and Scots-Irish) side of the family traces their voyage to the Americas via Liverpool and Jamestown - AS SLAVES! If you claim Ireland as your homeland, get the fuck on a ship and leave the USA. Permanently.

Embrace your ethnic heritage if you want, but don't call it "homeland" unless you have indeed made it your home.

Blacks have had an historically raw deal in America from day one. That history has led to blacks being marginalized and relegated to lower slices of our socioeconomic strata than white people. That denigration and marginalization has bred anger and that anger manifests itself in violence - not only black on white violence, but black on black violence. The root cause for that is the fact that the marginalization is an aftermath of slavery and slavery happened when the blacks were taken hostage IN AFRICA, and sold in America as property.

Being of Irish decent, you damned well ought to know a bit more about the history of slavery in the USA and the Irish. Perhaps your ancestors were some of the traitorous bastards who, like the black slavers in Africa, sold their brethren into slavery for blood money.

In my opinion, you claim your Irish heritage only because it is en vogue for you.

And does "accepting America" require blacks, or anyone else, to accept it "as is" or can blacks, or anyone else, be politically active to create change?

It takes the individuals standing up for themselves and succeeding despite the efforts of others to hold them down. Accept what you cannot change, and affect the changes you can.

Yurt

03-24-2008, 06:33 PM

retiredman

03-24-2008, 06:41 PM

you said....."Pretending that slavery and centuries of sub-human status as property is not the root cause for those ills is equally foolish."

please explain what you mean by the above statement.....i guess i don't get it....

are you aware that blacks were owned as property in the American colonies since the end of the sixteenth century? do the math.

Dilloduck

03-24-2008, 06:47 PM

are you aware that blacks were owned as property in the American colonies since the end of the sixteenth century? do the math.

yawn----another instance of intentional ignorance---he's not talking about the time frame as you know full well.

manu1959

03-24-2008, 06:49 PM

are you aware that blacks were owned as property in the American colonies since the end of the sixteenth century? do the math.

are you aware that all those people are dead and there have been several generations of free blacks.....yet somehow this is the root cause for their misfortune generations later......when do they have to stand up and fend for themselves and stop making excuses.....

CockySOB

03-24-2008, 06:50 PM

are you aware that blacks were owned as property in the American colonies since the end of the sixteenth century? do the math.

And are you aware that just as many Irish were enslaved by the English prior to that? Are you aware that the English considered African black slaves to be of higher worth than the Irish? And when food ran short on the overseas voyages, the Irish got tossed overboard before the black slaves? Seems that the English had to pay the black slavers for the African black slaves, but the Irish, well, just round 'em up and ship 'em out!

So tell me, how much are you going to pay the Irish whose ancestors can trace direct lineage back to the slave ships? I mean, your ancestors most likely made their way on blood money, so I figure you owe the rest of us Irish a good deal.

retiredman

03-24-2008, 06:53 PM

How nice that your Irish ancestors came over of their free will. My own mother's father's (Irish and Scots-Irish) side of the family traces their voyage to the Americas via Liverpool and Jamestown - AS SLAVES! If you claim Ireland as your homeland, get the fuck on a ship and leave the USA. Permanently. Embrace your ethnic heritage if you want, but don't call it "homeland" unless you have indeed made it your home.
I'll call it any fucking thing I want to... and the day you think you can control what the fuck I say, come on by and try.

Being of Irish decent, you damned well ought to know a bit more about the history of slavery in the USA and the Irish. Perhaps your ancestors were some of the traitorous bastards who, like the black slavers in Africa, sold their brethren into slavery for blood money.
there is a significant difference between indentured servitude and slavery. If your paternal grandfather's ancestors didn't have a pot to piss in and had to sell themselves as indentured servants in order to pay for a trip to the promised land, that's too fucking bad. At least they made it.

In my opinion, you claim your Irish heritage only because it is en vogue for you.
as if I give a shit what you think of my claim to Irish heritage! Go fuck yourself!

It takes the individuals standing up for themselves and succeeding despite the efforts of others to hold them down. Accept what you cannot change, and affect the changes you can.

and Jeremiah Wright is free to attempt to affect the changes he can by inspiring his congregation with fiery rhetoric. If you don't like living in a country where preachers are free to do that, YOU can get the fuck on a ship and leave the USA. Permanently. Asshole. :laugh2:

retiredman

03-24-2008, 06:55 PM

are you aware that all those people are dead and there have been several generations of free blacks.....yet somehow this is the root cause for their misfortune generations later......when do they have to stand up and fend for themselves and stop making excuses.....
no one is "making excuses". it is a fact that slavery from 1600 until the Civil War, and Jim Crow for the NEXT century after that has put blacks in America at a significant socioeconomic disadvantage. To deny that is ridiculous.

retiredman

03-24-2008, 06:57 PM

And are you aware that just as many Irish were enslaved by the English prior to that? Are you aware that the English considered African black slaves to be of higher worth than the Irish? And when food ran short on the overseas voyages, the Irish got tossed overboard before the black slaves? Seems that the English had to pay the black slavers for the African black slaves, but the Irish, well, just round 'em up and ship 'em out!

So tell me, how much are you going to pay the Irish whose ancestors can trace direct lineage back to the slave ships? I mean, your ancestors most likely made their way on blood money, so I figure you owe the rest of us Irish a good deal.

Look fuckstick. do the math. My grandmother came over on the boat. I don't owe you shit.

Yurt

03-24-2008, 07:01 PM

no one is "making excuses". it is a fact that slavery from 1600 until the Civil War, and Jim Crow for the NEXT century after that has put blacks in America at a significant socioeconomic disadvantage. To deny that is ridiculous.

i'm sure obama really feels disadvantaged.....harvard law, editor law review, senator, now front runner for president

give me a break, to continue harping on it after nearly 50 years of reverse discrimination in black's favor, enough already, the facts currently do not support your false assertion

let's get bill cosby in on this, he'd rip MFM good

CockySOB

03-24-2008, 07:03 PM

There ya have it people! manfrommaine is the racist progeny of slave traders whose real intention is to keep the slaves on the plantation. He has no morals, no scruples, and no honor.

And in case you missed it fuckwit, the Irish were used as SLAVES long before they were afforded indentured servitude. Go back to the late 1500's and early 1600's and you'll find the English used slavery as a means of getting rid of the Irish dissidents.

So go back and get an education on the Irish heritage you claim, you pissant progeny of slavers and beneficiary of blood monies.

retiredman

03-24-2008, 07:08 PM

There ya have it people! manfrommaine is the racist progeny of slave traders whose real intention is to keep the slaves on the plantation. He has no morals, no scruples, and no honor.

please explain to me how the fact that my grandmother and my great grandparents came from Ireland in the 1880s makes me the racist progeny of slave traders.

I'll wait.

retiredman

03-24-2008, 07:10 PM

i'm sure obama really feels disadvantaged.....harvard law, editor law review, senator, now front runner for president

give me a break, to continue harping on it after nearly 50 years of reverse discrimination in black's favor, enough already, the facts currently do not support your false assertion

let's get bill cosby in on this, he'd rip MFM good

so...50 years wipes the slate clean for the previous 350 years? no harm no foul? whatever.

Yurt

03-24-2008, 07:13 PM

so...50 years wipes the slate clean for the previous 350 years? no harm no foul? whatever.

obama really feels disadvantaged.....harvard law, editor law review, senator, lives in a 1.6 million dollar home, now front runner for president

CockySOB

03-24-2008, 07:14 PM

Look fuckstick. do the math. My grandmother came over on the boat. I don't owe you shit.

Then do you still think that blacks in America are owed something?

Hypocrite.

retiredman

03-24-2008, 07:20 PM

Then do you still think that blacks in America are owed something?

Hypocrite.

why does the fact that my grandmother came over from Ireland 120 years ago make me a hypocrite?

and when have I ever suggested that blacks are owed any reparations?

retiredman

03-24-2008, 07:22 PM

obama really feels disadvantaged.....harvard law, editor law review, senator, lives in a 1.6 million dollar home, now front runner for president

so because one black man has made it big, that means that all of them have.

Hell...if Shaq is 7 feet tall, that must mean that ALL blacks are, eh?

CockySOB

03-24-2008, 07:29 PM

MFM, I may be overreacting here. You're laying claim to Ireland as your homeland in ANY sense, while not having a clue about the reality of the Irish and Scots-Irish by the English has hit en extremely raw nerve. I get so pissed when I hear people discuss slavery ONLY in terms of black African slavery. So I do apologize if I went overboard. But you really should look into your ancestry going back at least to the 1600's if at all possible. It's always possible (shudder) that we might have some common ancestry.

retiredman

03-24-2008, 07:39 PM

manu1959

03-24-2008, 07:44 PM

no one is "making excuses". it is a fact that slavery from 1600 until the Civil War, and Jim Crow for the NEXT century after that has put blacks in America at a significant socioeconomic disadvantage. To deny that is ridiculous.

yes excuses for failure are convenient......no matter how many decades ago it occurred......just out of curiosity when does the excuse term out…..

retiredman

03-24-2008, 07:49 PM

yes excuses for failure are convenient......no matter how many decades ago it occurred......just out of curiosity when does the excuse term out…..

I am curious... what part of "no one is making excuses" did you NOT understand the first fucking time I typed it?

JohnDoe

03-24-2008, 07:54 PM

yes excuses for failure are convenient......no matter how many decades ago it occurred......just out of curiosity when does the excuse term out…..

How long were the germans blamed for the holocaust, which took place in less than a 10 year period, who's survivors alive today are still getting restitution?

I know I did not answer your question....I didn't because I did not know the answer, it just brought up my other question above...

jd

JohnDoe

03-24-2008, 07:57 PM

yes excuses for failure are convenient......no matter how many decades ago it occurred......just out of curiosity when does the excuse term out…..
Also Manu, there is a difference between excuses and extenuating circumstances.....extenuating circumstances is usually always considered under our laws, at least when it comes to punishment, and when it comes to retribution.

jd

Yurt

03-24-2008, 08:43 PM

so because one black man has made it big, that means that all of them have.

Hell...if Shaq is 7 feet tall, that must mean that ALL blacks are, eh?

and you bemoan my argument skills :laugh2: you're being intellectually dishonest. you know full well that there isn't just ONE black man that has made it big.

that was weakest attempt at someone trying to prove their point i have ever seen....

Yurt

03-24-2008, 08:44 PM

Also Manu, there is a difference between excuses and extenuating circumstances.....extenuating circumstances is usually always considered under our laws, at least when it comes to punishment, and when it comes to retribution.

jd

and, those circumstances have a pretty short shelf life....

retiredman

03-24-2008, 08:56 PM

and you bemoan my argument skills :laugh2: you're being intellectually dishonest. you know full well that there isn't just ONE black man that has made it big.

that was weakest attempt at someone trying to prove their point i have ever seen....

and you know full well that there are MILLIONS of black men who have not made it big and who are sucking hind tit in the American economy.

For you to suggest that the deleterious effects of 350 years of slavery and Jim Crow have been magically wiped away by 50 years of marginally effective half hearted affirmative action programs in only those businesses who accept government funding... and use the success of Barack Obama as proof is disgusting.

Yurt

03-24-2008, 08:58 PM

retiredman

03-24-2008, 09:00 PM

and there are millions of WHITE people who have not made it big.....your point?

you are being intentionally obtuse. it is not becoming.

Yurt

03-24-2008, 09:06 PM

you are being intentionally obtuse. it is not becoming.

quite the opposite, you are clinging to that form of debate desperately because it is all you have. can you dispute that there aren't millions of whites below poverty? there are poor people in all races, not just blacks.

here is an interesting stat:

According to the latest census, black married couples earn 82 percent of what white married couples make. For married blacks, the median income is $50,729. For married whites the median is $60,080. And because the majority of African-Americans live in the South, where salaries and living costs are lower -- that income figure gap is really closer in reality than it is on paper.

What skews the overall black income statistics down are black single mothers. An astounding 70 percent of African-American babies are born out-of-wedlock, as opposed to 27 percent for whites. Government statistics show that a single mother heads 53 percent of black families, and most of those families fall below the poverty line.

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/oreilly062402.asp

are you going to blame whitey for african american babies being born of wedlock?

Dilloduck

03-24-2008, 09:16 PM

and you know full well that there are MILLIONS of black men who have not made it big and who are sucking hind tit in the American economy.

For you to suggest that the deleterious effects of 350 years of slavery and Jim Crow have been magically wiped away by 50 years of marginally effective half hearted affirmative action programs in only those businesses who accept government funding... and use the success of Barack Obama as proof is disgusting.

Millions of people have overcome trauma they actually experienced and went on to live as happy people.

Here is one irrational thought from Albert Ellis.

9. The idea that because something once strongly affected our life, it should indefinitely affect it -- instead of the idea that we can learn from our past experiences but not be overly-attached to or prejudiced by them.

http://webspace.ship.edu/cgboer/ellis.html

Blacks will be slaves until they free themselves from believing the BS you and thousands of others are trying to feed them.

retiredman

03-24-2008, 09:17 PM

Dilloduck

03-24-2008, 09:21 PM

retiredman

03-24-2008, 09:31 PM

and this proves what? Blacks are lazy and stupid ?

Is that what you really think?

do you think they have poor hygiene too?

JohnDoe

03-24-2008, 09:35 PM

quite the opposite, you are clinging to that form of debate desperately because it is all you have. can you dispute that there aren't millions of whites below poverty? there are poor people in all races, not just blacks.

here is an interesting stat:

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/oreilly062402.asp

are you going to blame whitey for african american babies being born of wedlock?But what do you expect? For hundreds of years, slaves in our country were not permitted to marry as they were considered “property.”

;)

jd

Dilloduck

03-24-2008, 09:36 PM

Is that what you really think?

do you think they have poor hygiene too?

no I don't. Again--your attempts to blame the situation of todays blacks is a neurotic attempt at their current situation on the past---. People have over come WORSE trauma in one lifetime. You apparently are content to let blacks blame whitey for centuries.

Yurt

03-24-2008, 09:37 PM

let's look at a government source rather than jewishworldreview, shall we?

http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/income_wealth/005647.html

"Black households had the lowest median income in 2004 ($30,134) among race groups. Asian households had the highest median income ($57,518). The median income for non-Hispanic white households was $48,977. Median income for Hispanic households was $34,241".

White households had a median income that was 63% higher than black households.

Yeah...once Barack Obama broke the glass ceiling, the money just came pouring out for blacks in America, didn't it?:laugh2:

continuing with intellectual dishonesty i see....if you clicked my link, it did link up to gov stats :poke: further, your link does not break it down for married and non married as my link did. you of course completely ignored the stats on 70% of babies being born of wedlock and that single mothers account for a majority of black poverty.

and, ironically your link destroys your whitey rules theory and whitey has all the money/power....LOL

Dilloduck

03-24-2008, 09:38 PM

But what do you expect? For hundreds of years, slaves in our country were not permitted to marry as they were considered “property.”

;)

jd

How long did it take for women to overcome being disenfranchised ?

Yurt

03-24-2008, 09:41 PM

But what do you expect? For hundreds of years, slaves in our country were not permitted to marry as they were considered “property.”

;)

jd

and now for hundreds of years they have been allowed to marry.... something like 5 or more generations....

retiredman

03-24-2008, 09:41 PM

continuing with intellectual dishonesty i see....if you clicked my link, it did link up to gov stats :poke: further, your link does not break it down for married and non married as my link did. you of course completely ignored the stats on 70% of babies being born of wedlock and that single mothers account for a majority of black poverty.

and, ironically your link destroys your whitey rules theory and whitey has all the money/power....LOL

I am as leery of a jew pushing jewishworldreview on me as you are of TUCC's mission statement.

retiredman

03-24-2008, 09:43 PM

no I don't. Again--your attempts to blame the situation of todays blacks is a neurotic attempt at their current situation on the past---. People have over come WORSE trauma in one lifetime. You apparently are content to let blacks blame whitey for centuries.

I am, in fact, not content to let blacks blame whitey for even a minute.

Dilloduck

03-24-2008, 09:44 PM

I am as leery of a jew pushing jewishworldreview on me as you are of TUCC's mission statement.

Ain't that special---an anti-semite telling others that they are racist and bigots.

Dilloduck

03-24-2008, 09:46 PM

I am, in fact, not content to let blacks blame whitey for even a minute.

AHH I get it... Only uppity whites like YOU are allowed to blame your own race for the "plight" of blacks.

Yurt

03-24-2008, 09:47 PM

I am as leery of a jew pushing jewishworldreview on me as you are of TUCC's mission statement.

so you're a bigot to stats because a jew published it? it wasn't an opinion, it was stats :poke:

http://www.acf.hhs.gov/healthymarriage/about/aami_marriage_statistics.htm

retiredman

03-24-2008, 09:48 PM

AHH I get it... Only uppity whites like YOU are allowed to blame your own race for the "plight" of blacks.

no. you don't "get it". I doubt you could get out of your own way!

but you sure do the obnoxious annoying act as well as anyone on here. kudos.

Dilloduck

03-24-2008, 09:49 PM

so you're a bigot to stats because a jew published it? it wasn't an opinion, it was stats :poke:

http://www.acf.hhs.gov/healthymarriage/about/aami_marriage_statistics.htm

He's been owned about a hundred times in this thread. Big ego--doesn't know when he's been whipped.

manu1959

03-24-2008, 10:11 PM

so you're a bigot to stats because a jew published it? it wasn't an opinion, it was stats

http://www.acf.hhs.gov/healthymarriage/about/aami_marriage_statistics.htm

he is irish folks.......they are nationalistic, arrogant, bigotted, selfrightious, drunks.....there is no reasoning with them......ask the brits ....:laugh2:

retiredman

03-24-2008, 10:12 PM

so you're a bigot to stats because a jew published it? it wasn't an opinion, it was stats :poke:

http://www.acf.hhs.gov/healthymarriage/about/aami_marriage_statistics.htm

I am not bigoted at all. You had "stats" from jewish world review. I had stats from the census bureau.

Yurt

03-24-2008, 10:14 PM

Dilloduck

03-24-2008, 10:15 PM

he is irish folks.......they are nationalistic, arrogant, bigotted, selfrightious, drunks.....there is no reasoning with them......ask the brits ....:laugh2:

So it's pretty typical behavior ? :lmao:

manu1959

03-24-2008, 10:17 PM

So it's pretty typical behavior ? :lmao:

a typical irishman eh...........:cheers2:

retiredman

03-24-2008, 10:21 PM

just saw this, you know, you're a prick. :fu:
didn't you say that no president of yours would ever express an unwavering committment to another country?

but Ronnie was OK because Israel is different, somehow, isn't it?

Yurt

03-24-2008, 10:21 PM

didn't you say that no president of yours would ever express an unwavering committment to another country?

i never professed to be a kike, care to apologize?

retiredman

03-24-2008, 10:23 PM

i never professed to be a kike, care to apologize?

didn't you say that you had been called a kike and it didn't bother you?

Yurt

03-24-2008, 10:38 PM

didn't you say that you had been called a kike and it didn't bother you?

so being called a kike is professing to be one? not letting it bother me and moving on with my life instead of being a victim is professing to be one?

you're slanted...

Yurt

03-24-2008, 10:40 PM

didn't you say that no president of yours would ever express an unwavering committment to another country?

but Ronnie was OK because Israel is different, somehow, isn't it?

apples and oranges MFM...

We are an African people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of civilization.

consider the context of why i said that

retiredman

03-24-2008, 10:50 PM

apples and oranges MFM...

consider the context of why i said that

I do.... the context was, it was the preacher of a black democratic candidate talking about Africa and not Reagan talking about YOUR religious homeland.

retiredman

03-24-2008, 10:52 PM

so being called a kike is professing to be one? not letting it bother me and moving on with my life instead of being a victim is professing to be one?

you're slanted...

ifr someone called me a yellow dog democrat, it wouldn't bother me.

If someone called me a neoconservative republican it would bother me.

Yurt

03-24-2008, 11:17 PM

I do.... the context was, it was the preacher of a black democratic candidate talking about Africa and not Reagan talking about YOUR religious homeland.

ifr someone called me a yellow dog democrat, it wouldn't bother me.

If someone called me a neoconservative republican it would bother me.

you're making less and less sense as the night progresses. you can't even respond to my post.....

i never said israel was homeland, you are putting words in my mouth. i do not in fact consider it my homeland at all.

obama has gone beyond the normal political relations with an allied country and committed himself to an entire continent regardless of political ideology. reagan was talking politics, obama is talking about a personal commitment that transcends everything else.

Pale Rider

03-24-2008, 11:59 PM

I think truthmatters and manfrommaine are cut from the very same stone. I've never seen anyone obfuscate, twist, spin, distort and lie better than the two of them.

If mfm was smacked in the face with a cast iron frying pan, if it was something he believed couldn't happen, in spite of his newly bloody, broken nose, he'd deny it.

I'm simply amazed at the effort one liberal will go through to make excuses for, defend, and outright lie about to protect a racist black man and his racist church, even in the face of overwhelming truth, facts, and written and video evidence that exposes the whole church and the man as such. What a display of sheer antipathy.

No1tovote4

03-25-2008, 12:09 AM

oh really? how is this any different?

"America has never flinched from its commitment to the State of Israel--a commitment which remains unshakable" Ronald Reagan

why isn't Yurt, the self-professed "kike" furious about THAT???

(I got lots more ;) )
Do you ever check your wording? Even if a black dude calls himself the N word would you use it to describe him later?

I've seen you use "gook" before, and now I see "kike", I think you are a Democrat because you feel you need to punish yourself for what is internal, not what you see in the external.

JohnDoe

03-25-2008, 02:48 AM

Do you ever check your wording? Even if a black dude calls himself the N word would you use it to describe him later?

I've seen you use "gook" before, and now I see "kike", I think you are a Democrat because you feel you need to punish yourself for what is internal, not what you see in the external.

No1?

please explain your "democrat" comment....how did you JUMP from mfm using gook and kike to .....you thinking this is why he is a Democrat?

What does politica;l party have to do with someone calling someone a "name"? gees? names and labling people is rampant around here on both sides of the aisle from some people and some never use names, but what does calling someone a kike have to do with being a Democrat in your head??

jd

Trigg

03-25-2008, 09:10 AM

How long were the germans blamed for the holocaust, which took place in less than a 10 year period, who's survivors alive today are still getting restitution?

I know I did not answer your question....I didn't because I did not know the answer, it just brought up my other question above...

jd

The SURVIVORS got restituation. Not their decendents.

Maybe after the war the US should have given the freed slaves restitution. NOW however, it is to late. Many blacks living in the US today arn't even decendents of slaves, and some are decendents of black slave owners.

No one is holding blacks back from becomming anything they want to become, except themselves. A victim mentality and high out of wedlock birth rates have had a huge affect on income.

Rappers with their glorification of pimps, whores, murder, prison dress and "keepin it real", have hurt the black community far more than white people.

retiredman

03-25-2008, 10:51 AM

you're making less and less sense as the night progresses. you can't even respond to my post.....

i never said israel was homeland, you are putting words in my mouth. i do not in fact consider it my homeland at all.

obama has gone beyond the normal political relations with an allied country and committed himself to an entire continent regardless of political ideology. reagan was talking politics, obama is talking about a personal commitment that transcends everything else.

For you to just blithely dismiss Ronald Reagan's unconditional commitment to Israel - which was political and financial and military in nature and quite substantive overall, and get your undies in a bunch over the symbolic and spiritual commitment to African culture of a black church in Chicago is hypocritical in the extreme...and another example of the self righteous faux outrage that you use to attempt to disguise your own racism.

Pale Rider

03-25-2008, 11:02 AM

For you to just blithely dismiss Ronald Reagan's unconditional commitment to Israel - which was political and financial and military in nature and quite substantive overall, and get your undies in a bunch over the symbolic and spiritual commitment to African culture of a black church in Chicago is hypocritical in the extreme...and another example of the self righteous faux outrage that you use to attempt to disguise your own racism.

And here ya are again... right back at it... calling others racist all the while your man and his church are the most recent shining examples of it. Have you no shame in your desperate, zealous hypocrisy?

JohnDoe

03-25-2008, 11:06 AM

The SURVIVORS got restituation. Not their decendents.

Maybe after the war the US should have given the freed slaves restitution. NOW however, it is to late. Many blacks living in the US today arn't even decendents of slaves, and some are decendents of black slave owners.

But what is many? 10% are not decendents? 20% are not decendents? 50% are not decendents?

I think after the war as you stated would have been the best way to handle it, however Americans were too busy discriminating against the newly freed blacks for the next 100 years after giving them their freedom.

Is THIS being left out of the equation or being denied? I don't see how it can be....?

No one is holding blacks back from becomming anything they want to become, except themselves. A victim mentality and high out of wedlock birth rates have had a huge affect on income.

I agree with you on the high out of wedlock birth rates. There is a battle going on believe it or not between Black men and black women on this very subject. I read an article on it yesterday that I wished I had saved which went in to surveys they had done among blacks and MOST ALL black women believe in marriage and want their men to marry them and be faithful to them, while most black men in the survey did not think marriage was as important as their women and even if they did marry, they thought that extramarital affairs were okay. This survey and study pointed out that this rift between black women and black men was being shown also in the type of rap music words that were being expressed also in recent decades and black women are not liking it one bit, being presented as basically just an object or piece of ass for the black men to use....

It showed how at the time of martin luther king, more than 70% of black adults were married, moreso than white folk and how the degeneration of such has taken place since then...

It also pointed out, the benefits of rearing children in a married family and how children more than likely would be better off in this situation according to all statistics, but also pointed out that this was the case with white children born out of wedlock EVEN if born to rich white women, it said that a white child born out of wedlock with a mother with money still has much less chances in an opportuned life than a black child with both parents....

so this is not a "color" problem or a "money" problem but honestly a "marriage" problem....It went in to all kinds of stuff and was a great article!

retiredman

03-25-2008, 11:06 AM

And here ya are again... right back at it... calling others racist all the while your man and his church are the most recent shining examples of it. Have you no shame in your desperate, zealous hypocrisy?

and here YOU are...the guy who claims that all black people are just savages BY NATURE! Don't even fucking TALK to me about racism, you twisted bigot!

Pale Rider

03-25-2008, 11:38 AM

and here YOU are...the guy who claims that all black people are just savages BY NATURE! Don't even fucking TALK to me about racism, you twisted bigot!

OK... I see you've also had a couple of cups of asshole, liar delight this morning... now, show me where I said, "all black people are SAVAGES by nature." Should I wait, or will you just respond with more of the usual crap you've been unloading on people with in here?

And just a quick note... the word "bigot" has nothing to with your straw man... check your dictionary son...

Pale Rider

03-25-2008, 11:44 AM

But what is many? 10% are not decendents? 20% are not decendents? 50% are not decendents?

I think after the war as you stated would have been the best way to handle it, however Americans were too busy discriminating against the newly freed blacks for the next 100 years after giving them their freedom.

Is THIS being left out of the equation or being denied? I don't see how it can be....?

I agree with you on the high out of wedlock birth rates. There is a battle going on believe it or not between Black men and black women on this very subject. I read an article on it yesterday that I wished I had saved which went in to surveys they had done among blacks and MOST ALL black women believe in marriage and want their men to marry them and be faithful to them, while most black men in the survey did not think marriage was as important as their women and even if they did marry, they thought that extramarital affairs were okay. This survey and study pointed out that this rift between black women and black men was being shown also in the type of rap music words that were being expressed also in recent decades and black women are not liking it one bit, being presented as basically just an object or piece of ass for the black men to use....

It showed how at the time of martin luther king, more than 70% of black adults were married, moreso than white folk and how the degeneration of such has taken place since then...

It also pointed out, the benefits of rearing children in a married family and how children more than likely would be better off in this situation according to all statistics, but also pointed out that this was the case with white children born out of wedlock EVEN if born to rich white women, it said that a white child born out of wedlock with a mother with money still has much less chances in an opportuned life than a black child with both parents....

so this is not a "color" problem or a "money" problem but honestly a "marriage" problem....It went in to all kinds of stuff and was a great article!

How do you come to the conclusion that it's not a color problem when the problem pertains to one color? Had this phenomenon affect all races the same I'd say you're right... but it hasn't. Therefore.... think about it....

retiredman

03-25-2008, 11:59 AM

OK... I see you've also had a couple of cups of asshole, liar delight this morning... now, show me where I said, "all black people are SAVAGES by nature." Should I wait, or will you just respond with more of the usual crap you've been unloading on people with in here?

And just a quick note... the word "bigot" has nothing to with your straw man... check your dictionary son...

I paraphrased, not having your exact quote at hand. Are you suggesting that you did NOT say that blacks were more inherently violent than other races "BY NATURE"?

Pale Rider

03-25-2008, 12:11 PM

I paraphrased, not having your exact quote at hand. Are you suggesting that you did NOT say that blacks were more inherently violent than other races "BY NATURE"?

That's exactly what I said, and I proved it.

The next thing everyone in this thread is aware of is that b. hussein belongs to a racist church with a frothing at the mouth racist, America hating preacher. Has he left the church yet? No. Why not? One can only surmise that he's in total agreement with all of the racist rants and preaching of the church and the preacher. Otherwise he'd leave that church. Easy to see, easy to figure out.

JohnDoe

03-25-2008, 12:30 PM

How long did it take for women to overcome being disenfranchised ?

We still are disenfranchised!!! :dance:

Just look at Congress....are there even close to 50% of our representatives as women? Well, half of America are women? When we have proportionate representation, then I would say the end of disenfranchisement is at hand!

:D

Trigg

03-25-2008, 12:37 PM

=JohnDoe;221989 But what is many? 10% are not decendents? 20% are not decendents? 50% are not decendents?

I think after the war as you stated would have been the best way to handle it, however Americans were too busy discriminating against the newly freed blacks for the next 100 years after giving them their freedom.

Is THIS being left out of the equation or being denied? I don't see how it can be....?

Probably 10% are not decendents of American slaves. Not that it matters. My point was if restitution was going to be given it should have been given to the slaves, not their decendents. Too many years have passed, there are too many decendents. We have had affermative action in most positions, we have rules against discrimination. Now people need to take responsibility for themselves and their future and quite looking to the past for someone to blame. All of the slaves and slave owners are dead.

. I read an article on it yesterday that I wished I had saved which went in to surveys they had done among blacks and MOST ALL black women believe in marriage and want their men to marry them and be faithful to them, while most black men in the survey did not think marriage was as important as their women and even if they did marry, they thought that extramarital affairs were okay.

The only way to cut the rate of out of wedlock births in the black community is for the women to use better birth control or keep their legs together until the men get on the same page and start marrying them.

It showed how at the time of martin luther king, more than 70% of black adults were married, moreso than white folk and how the degeneration of such has taken place since then...

We all know the benefits of having children in marriage instead of out of it. The question is WHY did black out of wedlock births start going up AFTER the Civil Rights Movement??????? Again, after affermative action and hiring laws have come into affect the black community seems to be worse than it was before. IMO this is not a problem caused by white people.

Trigg

03-25-2008, 12:41 PM

We still are disenfranchised!!! :dance:

Just look at Congress....are there even close to 50% of our representatives as women? Well, half of America are women? When we have proportionate representation, then I would say the end of disenfranchisement is at hand!

:D

Women are not disenfranchised.

Women have the choice to stay at home, or enter the workforce. We have the freedom to pursue ANY career we choose.

Simply not having the same exact number of men and women in any given profession does not point to disenfranchisement. It points to FREE WILL.

We have a WOMAN running for president and we've had a WOMAN run for Vice President.:dance:

JohnDoe

03-25-2008, 01:01 PM

How do you come to the conclusion that it's not a color problem when the problem pertains to one color? Had this phenomenon affect all races the same I'd say you're right... but it hasn't. Therefore.... think about it....

oh yeah, you are right that disproportionately Black men are not marrying their women.

I am saying that "a better life for ANY child" comes from being reared by both their father and their mother.

That it is not necessarily the MONEY that comes from a 2 parent family as they once had thought that makes these children at a lower risk of a number of negative statistics/situations....

because they followed the children of unwed White mothers with higher incomes and their children had less of a chance in having a good, prosperous life than the children of any married couple, including the children of a black married couple.

So, yes it is a problem in the black community because the black men are not marrying their women...

and the fatherless child becomes at risk....but no greater risk than the white woman that has a child out of wedlock...soooo, in that sense...it is not a color issue....both white and black etc children without a mother and a father have a higher risk of being jailed, dropping out of highschool, being killed, not finding a good job, getting pregnant out of wedlock themselves etc....

I think Trigg has the solution, it is time for these women to take control of the situation and stop putting out...from the article that I read, they are about ready to do such and go on a revolt cuz they are sick of it, sick of having to struggle by themselves to rear the children of these men...

jd

Dilloduck

03-25-2008, 01:05 PM

oh yeah, you are right that disproportionately Black men are not marrying their women.

I am saying that "a better life for ANY child" comes from being reared by both their father and their mother.

That it is not necessarily the MONEY that comes from a 2 parent family as they once had thought that makes these children at a lower risk of a number of negative statistics/situations....

because they followed the children of unwed White mothers with higher incomes and their children had less of a chance in having a good, prosperous life than the children of any married couple, including the children of a black married couple.

So, yes it is a problem in the black community because the black men are not marrying their women...

and the fatherless child becomes at risk....but no greater risk than the white woman that has a child out of wedlock...soooo, in that sense...it is not a color issue....both white and black etc children without a mother and a father have a higher risk of being jailed, dropping out of highschool, being killed, not finding a good job, getting pregnant out of wedlock themselves etc....

I think Trigg has the solution, it is time for these women to take control of the situation and stop putting out...from the article that I read, they are about ready to do such and go on a revolt cuz they are sick of it, sick of having to struggle by themselves to rear the children of these men...

jd

stop putting out :laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

Dilloduck

03-25-2008, 01:07 PM

retiredman

03-25-2008, 01:48 PM

That's exactly what I said, and I proved it.

The next thing everyone in this thread is aware of is that b. hussein belongs to a racist church with a frothing at the mouth racist, America hating preacher. Has he left the church yet? No. Why not? One can only surmise that he's in total agreement with all of the racist rants and preaching of the church and the preacher. Otherwise he'd leave that church. Easy to see, easy to figure out.

no. that is ridiculous! you did not prove any such thing. the only thing you proved was that you are a racist who feels superior to people with black skin.

I ask you again: if you took a caucasian baby and a black baby - orphans - and had them raised as siblings by a family in remote Mongolia, are you suggesting that, BY NATURE - GENETICALLY - INHERENTLY, the black baby would grow up to be more violent than the caucasian baby?

I also am a member of a UCC church. There certainly have been times that I have disagreed with what has been preached from the pulpit at my church. Why didn't I leave? Because it is my church. The churches of the UCC are congregational in nature. That means that the church is not defined by the minister but by the congregation itself. I would never leave my church because my faith journey has been undertaken alongside the members of my church. It would be easy for you to understand if you were a member of a congregational church, but clearly you are not and, therefore, your "beliefs" are based in ignorance.

JohnDoe

03-25-2008, 01:49 PM

Women are not disenfranchised.

Women have the choice to stay at home, or enter the workforce. We have the freedom to pursue ANY career we choose. [B]Yes, we do have the opportunity to PURSUE any job we want...this is where we have come a long way.... whether we have the opportunity to "get" the job is still another story in some areas of our society and work environment. Not all, but in SOME areas of business in the USA. There is also still work force disparity when it comes to money. Statistics show that a woman doing the PRECISE SAME job as a man in general makes 80% of what they pay the man in certain areas of the workforce/management.

At the same time I recognize that women may be hired before a man in certain areas of our workforce too.... look at teachers, nurses, waitresses etc all out number their male counterparts but many say this is because of the lower salaries in these fields compared to other fields.

I am older than you for certain, and have seen great strides in my career. When I began, I was the first female buyer the company had ever hired....and they did not hire me from the outside, I had to pay my dues working for them in the stores, moving up from salesperson to asst manager to manager to Buyer for them. All other Retail Buyers were men....even for women's shoes, the buyers were men? The General Merchandise Manager, hiring for the position turned me down....told me outright that he didn't think a GIRL like me could do the job when I interviewed for the job....

I wanted it so badly...I went over the general merchandise manager's head and went to the President of the Company I worked for and begged him to give me a chance at this Buyer's Position, that I knew I could do the job....and the President called the GMM hiring and told him to hire me for the position...he told the GMM that anyone that had the guts that I did and wanted a job so much as I did, deserved the chance at the job.

For the first 2 years that I worked for the GMM when passing me in the hallway, he used to pinch my arm and say to me, "Is your skin getting any thicker yet", implying that I was just a weak little girl that would never be able to wheel and deal with the male vendors that tried to sell us goods...

He used to say outright to me, with all the men buyers around, what the heck do you know...you are just a 23/24/25/26 year old FEMALE, making emphasis on that...(this went on the whole decade)

The only reason I survived was because there was no way in this world was I gonna let some man push me out of something I really wanted to do in life....(I had just gone thru a divorce too and knew that if I wanted any of the "finer" things in life, I would have to get them for myself, by myself...) so I put up with this kind of bullshit and harrassment for years....11 years with the same company, 9 and half years with that same male dick of a boss :)

When my boss the GMM resigned, the president asked him who he thought would be good within the company to replace him.... Much to my surprise...the son of a bitch recommended me to replace him. (And we have kept a friendship over the last decade and still have one, amazingly! :) )

From that point on it was pretty much uphill and not too many noticable disparities....untill it came time for the vp positions avail at the Corp that I worked for...30 vps and all men...with PLENTY of qualified women execs...

Soooo I admit alot has changed since that time, but I do not think that we have reached a true parity yet...not in all areas of business.

I am not really a woman's movement kind of gal or anything like that....I know what I have said might deem me as such, but I am just speaking from personal experience....

looking back on it, my first 10 years of struggling in a man's environment made me a STRONGER business woman, and quite frankly it did just what my boss set out to do, it made my skin thicker!!!