For truthmatters, who loves the polls!

[jimnyc]

No traction with the story? Won't make a difference no matter how many times we repeat it? Obama is sure to win the election?

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Democrat Barack Obama's big national lead over Hillary Clinton has all but evaporated in the U.S. presidential race, and both Democrats trail Republican John McCain, according a Reuters/Zogby poll released on Wednesday.

The poll showed Obama had only a statistically insignificant lead of 47 percent to 44 percent over Clinton, down sharply from a 14 point edge he held over her in February when he was riding the tide of 10 straight victories.
---------
The poll showed Arizona Sen. McCain, who has clinched the Republican presidential nomination, is benefiting from the lengthy campaign battle between Obama and Clinton, who are now battling to win Pennsylvania on April 22.

McCain leads 46 percent to 40 percent in a hypothetical matchup against Obama in the November presidential election, according to the poll.

That is a sharp turnaround from the Reuters/Zogby poll from last month, which showed in a head-to-head matchup that Obama would beat McCain 47 percent to 40 percent.

"The last couple of weeks have taken a toll on Obama and in a general election match-up, on both Democrats," said pollster John Zogby.

http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN1824791220080319?feedType=RSS&feedName=politicsNews&rpc=22&sp=true

[truthmatters]

Oh well we might as well give up and crown McSame.

More war , more taxcuts for the wealthy and more of this great economy.

In 2012 they can reanoit him and then they can anoit whoever he picks for vice.

by 2020 we will be a third world country.

[jimnyc]

Sucks to be on the losing end so much, and to be wrong so often, huh? :laugh2:

[retiredman]

Obama slipping in the polls proves that negative attacks and swiftboating works.

If I were John McCain, I'd stand by for a particularly nasty election year.

I can almost hear the ad from the Concerned Former Vietnamese POW's for Truth claiming that McCain ratted them out to his captors and signed confessions to get himself better treatment.....

Keating Five?...oh, we'll all be remembering that...

and then there is that war... that war that everybody hates... that war that hangs like an albatross around John's neck - right along with his dorky dubya action figure - we'll hear about all of that as well.

I mean really...who wants a campaign based upon substance when there is so much great dirt to dish?:laugh2:

[truthmatters]

Your right it really does suck to be wrong all the time.

It sucks to be wrong about WMDs in Iraq.

It sucks to be wrong about AQ and Iraqi ties.

It sucks to be wrong about White phospherous in Fallugia.

It sucks to be wrong about the machines we vote on.

It sucks to be wrong about the housing bubble.

It sucks to be wrong about a tanking economy.

It sucks dont it.

[jimnyc]

Obama slipping in the polls proves that negative attacks and swiftboating works.

And that people are slowly learning the truth about what he stands for and who he supports. So long as the Dems keep making themselves look like a couple of twits, I'm happy!

[jimnyc]

Your right it really does suck to be wrong all the time.

It sucks to be wrong about WMDs in Iraq.

It sucks to be wrong about AQ and Iraqi ties.

It sucks to be wrong about White phospherous in Fallugia.

It sucks to be wrong about the machines we vote on.

It sucks to be wrong about the housing bubble.

It sucks to be wrong about a tanking economy.

It sucks dont it.

Sucks that your candidates suck ass and we'll have to hear you whine like a baby for 4 more years! Deal with it!

[retiredman]

And that people are slowly learning the truth about what he stands for and who he supports. So long as the Dems keep making themselves look like a couple of twits, I'm happy!


I think there will be plenty of time after our convention to make McCain look like a hapless Bush clone and a betrayer of american POW's...and a guy who, by his own admission, doesn't understand how our economy works...and a guy, who just yesterday, needed to be corrected by none other than Joe Lieberman when he fucked up and claimed that Iran was supporting Al Qaeda. He ain't the sharpest knife in your drawer... and he's a little bit over the hill.... and with his temper, when the attacks start coming, it'll be fun to see if he can respond with the dignity that Obama showed yesterday or will he come unglued and lose his temper in front of TV cameras? Lots of time to push lots of McCain's buttons.

But then...your side will have lots of time to mobilize the nigger hating racists, so it will be an "interesting" contest to watch, no doubt!

[Monkeybone]

Your right it really does suck to be wrong all the time.. yah...


It sucks to be wrong about WMDs in Iraq. yah..those Dems on the intel board sure screwed the pooch on that one. as will the pres i will admit, adn Sadam! cuz..for some reason he was wrong when he thought that claiming he had them would stop us from attacking!


It sucks to be wrong about AQ and Iraqi ties. especially when you use a leaked early report....and the official one show how it was not directly AQ...just guys that went to join them. but remember, indirectly and directly are exactly the same thing according to a certain poster on the board (not you TM)


It sucks to be wrong about White phospherous in Fallugia. meh, i will admit that i never really read anything aboutm other then that they suspected it of being used..i will look into so as not to be ingant and just spouting off. (which i hope this whole post doesn't prove)


It sucks to be wrong about the machines we vote on. so are we talking about osmething that is relly wrong? or you paranoid "Repubs and Bush did" it mantra?


It sucks to be wrong about the housing bubble. says the lady who said " Bubble? what are you talking about? the gov should;ve stopped those people that couldn't afford those lonas from getting them RRAAAHHHGHGHGHG!!!"


It sucks to be wrong about a tanking economy. all i have really heard is wait....can't tell from the first quarter...wait and see and then we will deal with it. no AAHHHHH!!! put your money in mayo jar and vote for someone that wants to raise taxes!


It sucks dont it. reading your post and wondering how you function normally? yes...yes it does.

no i am off to google some stuff. hehe...boobies.

[jimnyc]

But then...your side will have lots of time to mobilize the nigger hating racists, so it will be an "interesting" contest to watch, no doubt!

Real mature response! Too bad the only racism I see is from the scumbag Wright, and those who support him and his filthy shithole of a church.

You and TM can get together, share a few tears and sing "Slip Slidin Away" together! :dance:

[Monkeybone]

I think there will be plenty of time after our convention to make McCain look like a hapless Bush clone and a betrayer of american POW's...and a guy who, by his own admission, doesn't understand how our economy works...and a guy, who just yesterday, needed to be corrected by none other than Joe Lieberman when he fucked up and claimed that Iran was supporting Al Qaeda. He ain't the sharpest knife in your drawer... and he's a little bit over the hill.... and with his temper, when the attacks start coming, it'll be fun to see if he can respond with the dignity that Obama showed yesterday or will he come unglued and lose his temper in front of TV cameras? Lots of time to push lots of McCain's buttons.

But then...your side will have lots of time to mobilize the nigger hating racists, so it will be an "interesting" contest to watch, no doubt!

stop making fun the the old confused people MFM...not their fault they smell funny.

[Immanuel]

Sucks that your candidates suck ass and we'll have to hear you whine like a baby for 4 more years! Deal with it!

Oh Lord!!!

You're right... that settles it. I'm voting for the Dem just so I don't have to listen to four, strike that, eight more years of it. ;)

Immie

[retiredman]

Real mature response! Too bad the only racism I see is from the scumbag Wright, and those who support him and his filthy shithole of a church.

You and TM can get together, share a few tears and sing "Slip Slidin Away" together! :dance:


It was a mature response Jim. Just as you can go to the bank on the fact that McCain is going to get swiftoboated about Vietnam confessions, and Keating Five corruption and economic ignorance and a total lack of understanding about the nature of the sectarian conflicts in the middle east, you can also go to the bank on the fact that the good ol boy white southern racist voter will be reminded of the color of Obama's skin early and often.

[Monkeybone]

It sucks to be wrong about White phospherous in Fallugia.

ok, looked it up and how was anyone wrong? it was used, and the were saying that it was used.but they were also saying that it was not used intentionally on ppl. classic political talk. the whole "depends on your definition" sorta thing. blah.

[Immanuel]

I think there will be plenty of time after our convention to make McCain look like a hapless Bush clone and a betrayer of american POW's...and a guy who, by his own admission, doesn't understand how our economy works...and a guy, who just yesterday, needed to be corrected by none other than Joe Lieberman when he fucked up and claimed that Iran was supporting Al Qaeda. He ain't the sharpest knife in your drawer... and he's a little bit over the hill.... and with his temper, when the attacks start coming, it'll be fun to see if he can respond with the dignity that Obama showed yesterday or will he come unglued and lose his temper in front of TV cameras? Lots of time to push lots of McCain's buttons.



Hate to say it, but "true dat"!

Look at how quickly Obama has fallen from grace. Three weeks ago he was an American darling even if the diehard right despised him, but today he's fighting to keep his campaign alive, fighting to avoid another knife in the back from the Clintons.

There's plenty of time for either candidate to royally F' this one up. Will McCain let loose the next Howard Dean self-destruction? the next Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeehhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! to bring down a presidential candidate?

Stay tuned the fun has just begun.

Immie

[truthmatters]

McCain wins and you guys win.

America and the world loses.

[Monkeybone]

McCain wins and you guys win.

America and the world loses.

:poke: what? are you giving up or something? you act like this is a preaching/teaching website, not a debate one where ppl share different ideas. :poke:

[truthmatters]

This is what you will get with McSame.

60 million dollar wars that cost you trillons in the end



http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/19/washington/19cost.html?_r=1&ex=1363579200&en=f7aa91fd9935072c&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin


WASHINGTON — At the outset of the Iraq war, the Bush administration predicted that it would cost $50 billion to $60 billion to oust Saddam Hussein, restore order and install a new government.


The Costs So Far Five years in, the Pentagon tags the cost of the Iraq war at roughly $600 billion and counting. Joseph E. Stiglitz, a Nobel Prize-winning economist and critic of the war, pegs the long-term cost at more than $4 trillion. The Congressional Budget Office and other analysts say that $1 trillion to $2 trillion is more realistic, depending on troop levels and on how long the American occupation continues.

[theHawk]

McCain wins and you guys win.

America and the world loses.

And America would "win" with the election of a socialist bafoon who has been brainwashed for the last twenty years by an America-hating racist? :poke:

[Yurt]

It was a mature response Jim. Just as you can go to the bank on the fact that McCain is going to get swiftoboated about Vietnam confessions, and Keating Five corruption and economic ignorance and a total lack of understanding about the nature of the sectarian conflicts in the middle east, you can also go to the bank on the fact that the good ol boy white southern racist voter will be reminded of the color of Obama's skin early and often.

it was YOUR cult leaders pastor who forced this into the limelight....even obama admitted it. he said he had planned his race speech ahead of time figuring race would come up, but he said he never predicted it coming up this way.

yeah, thats right, YOUR side brought it up. yet you continue to, without any factual evidence, say our side is racist when it is in fact your side that forced this issue.

that is a fact MFM, not an opinion.

[truthmatters]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/18/iraq/main3946663.shtml

64% of Americans say the war was not worth it.

Funny they would vote to stay 100 years by voting for McCain?

[manu1959]

Obama slipping in the polls proves that negative attacks and swiftboating works.

If I were John McCain, I'd stand by for a particularly nasty election year.

I can almost hear the ad from the Concerned Former Vietnamese POW's for Truth claiming that McCain ratted them out to his captors and signed confessions to get himself better treatment.....

Keating Five?...oh, we'll all be remembering that...

and then there is that war... that war that everybody hates... that war that hangs like an albatross around John's neck - right along with his dorky dubya action figure - we'll hear about all of that as well.

I mean really...who wants a campaign based upon substance when there is so much great dirt to dish?:laugh2:

if obama had not made the choices he had there would be nothing to swift baot him with......he picked an asshole for a mentor and a creepy developer to kick start his political career.......the chiiiiiiiiiiiickens haaaaaaaaaaaave coooooooooome home to rooooooooooost.....

[retiredman]

it was YOUR cult leaders pastor who forced this into the limelight....even obama admitted it. he said he had planned his race speech ahead of time figuring race would come up, but he said he never predicted it coming up this way.

yeah, thats right, YOUR side brought it up. yet you continue to, without any factual evidence, say our side is racist when it is in fact your side that forced this issue.

that is a fact MFM, not an opinion.

the fact that a black democrat brought up the issue of race is not in dispute. the fact that your party is the party of black hating racists is also not in dispute. 90% of black americans are well aware of that fact and vote democratic accordingly.

[retiredman]

if obama had not made the choices he had there would be nothing to swift baot him with......he picked an asshole for a mentor and a creepy developer to kick start his political career.......the chiiiiiiiiiiiickens haaaaaaaaaaaave coooooooooome home to rooooooooooost.....


it's early yet. McCain's signed letter of confession to his captors in Hanoi has yet to get a lot of play. it will. so will keating five...so will his unconditional support for a terrible war...so will his admitted lack of knowledge about the economy...so will his lack of knowledge about the nature of the conflict in the middle east.

like I said...it's early.... our side has not even STARTED making the mudpies we will throw at Johnboy. I just can't wait for him to lose his cool when a few of them hit him in the face.

[Sitarro]

It was a mature response Jim. Just as you can go to the bank on the fact that McCain is going to get swiftoboated about Vietnam confessions, and Keating Five corruption and economic ignorance and a total lack of understanding about the nature of the sectarian conflicts in the middle east, you can also go to the bank on the fact that the good ol boy white southern racist voter will be reminded of the color of Obama's skin early and often.

We in the south aren't like you guys in Maine where you have one negro in the entire state and he is probably only half like Obamessiah. We are well aware of what they look like, we have plenty of Mayors and other government officials that are black. Hell, Nagin is still dreaming of his Chocolate City. You see mfm, we actually live around blacks and know them unlike you who has a token that got lost and ended up in the whitest state in the union.

Obamessiah is proving to be nothing but a hen pecked dimwit that obviously was helped a great deal to get through school, isn't that affirmative action great? Ferrarro was right, the only reason he is even in the race is because of his skin color, he doesn't bring anything else to the table. He is here just to make all of you guilt ridden liberal clowns feel better about yourselves because deep down inside there is a reason you don't live around blacks, isn't there?:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

[manu1959]

it's early yet. McCain's signed letter of confession to his captors in Hanoi has yet to get a lot of play. it will. so will keating five...so will his unconditional support for a terrible war...so will his admitted lack of knowledge about the economy...so will his lack of knowledge about the nature of the conflict in the middle east.

like I said...it's early.... our side has not even STARTED making the mudpies we will throw at Johnboy. I just can't wait for him to lose his cool when a few of them hit him in the face.

yes ..... i am confident the dems will crawl right down in the gutter after they have claimed the moral, intulectual and elite high ground .....

[theHawk]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/18/iraq/main3946663.shtml

64% of Americans say the war was not worth it.

Funny they would vote to stay 100 years by voting for McCain?

How would they be voting to "stay for 100 years" by voting McCain? McCain merely said its possible the US could end up being long term peace-time allies with Iraq much like we have been with Germany, Japan. and Korea. He never said that we should fight the war that long.

[manu1959]

How would they be voting to "stay for 100 years" by voting McCain? McCain merely said its possible the US could end up being long term peace-time allies with Iraq much like we have been with Germany, Japan. and Korea. He never said that we should fight the war that long.

ask her to provide you the quote from ohillary that says they will have all troops out inside of a year.....

[Monkeybone]

and it's not exactly like we won't be doing anything militarily under Obama. just out of Iraq.

[Sitarro]

the fact that a black democrat brought up the issue of race is not in dispute. the fact that your party is the party of black hating racists is also not in dispute. 90% of black americans are well aware of that fact and vote democratic accordingly.

No, it is the Democrats that are the racists...... you guys are the ones that promise black people all sorts of freebies to keep them under your control while Republicans promise to help them help themselves, they are the ones that choose the easiest way out.

We, your Democrat party, will give you money for every kid you have, food stamps to buy 40s and cigarettes with, money and a slot ahead of a more deserving white boy for school, we will make sure you get all government run jobs no matter how inept you are(don't ask us to train you though), we will demand that you are bailed out of all the crap you get yourselves into( like in New Orleans when you stayed around to loot the city).

[theHawk]

it's early yet. McCain's signed letter of confession to his captors in Hanoi has yet to get a lot of play. it will. so will keating five...so will his unconditional support for a terrible war...so will his admitted lack of knowledge about the economy...so will his lack of knowledge about the nature of the conflict in the middle east.

like I said...it's early.... our side has not even STARTED making the mudpies we will throw at Johnboy. I just can't wait for him to lose his cool when a few of them hit him in the face.

I'd like to see how you'd hold up as a POW being beaten and having your bones broke. You liberals truely are pieces of shit if you're going to go after McCain on that. Naturally the libs will in this election. I think that will be a big mistake. This man isn't John Kerry, he was a real POW who went through real torture. The conservative base isn't fired up about McCain, but they won't stand by and allow pussy-assed liberals to attack a POW like that.

[truthmatters]

No, it is the Democrats that are the racists...... you guys are the ones that promise black people all sorts of freebies to keep them under your control while Republicans promise to help them help themselves, are the ones that choose the easiest way out.they

We, your Democrat party, will give you money for every kid you have, food stamps to buy 40s and cigarettes with, money and a slot ahead of a more deserving white boy for school, we will make sure you get all government run jobs no matter how inept you are(don't ask us to train you though), we will demand that you are bailed out of all crap you get yourselves into( like in New Orleans when you stated around to loot the city).



Do you have any idea how racist this little rant is?

[Sitarro]

Do you have any idea how racist this little rant is?

No, tell me the truth.:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

[truthmatters]

I'd like to see how you'd hold up as a POW being beaten and having your bones broke. You liberals truely are pieces of shit if you're going to go after McCain on that. Naturally the libs will in this election. I think that will be a big mistake. This man isn't John Kerry, he was a real POW who went through real torture. The conservative base isn't fired up about McCain, but they won't stand by and allow pussy-assed liberals to attack a POW like that.


http://powermusicinc.com/

POW families are not really fond of McSame




"We found no compelling evidence to prove that Americans are alive in captivity today (1993). We have not hidden anything from the public. There is some evidence–though no proof to suggest only the possibility that a few Americans may have been kept behind after the end of America’s military involvement in Vietnam. The Committee found absolutely no credible evidence that the U.S. Government conspired to prevent the American people from knowing that Americans remained captive in Southeast Asia. (Report p. 468)

[retiredman]

I'd like to see how you'd hold up as a POW being beaten and having your bones broke. You liberals truely are pieces of shit if you're going to go after McCain on that. Naturally the libs will in this election. I think that will be a big mistake. This man isn't John Kerry, he was a real POW who went through real torture. The conservative base isn't fired up about McCain, but they won't stand by and allow pussy-assed liberals to attack a POW like that.


the attacks on McCain will come from patriotic former POW's. Many of them are convinced he ratted them out and signed the confession to get better treatment for himself. I can't wait to watch him blow a gasket in front of a television camera.... show us the calm steady leadership style he continues to hype. He doesn't know shit about the economy, and he doesnt know shit about who the hell is fighting whom in the middle east as evidenced by his gaffe yesterday.

[truthmatters]

No, it is the Democrats that are the racists...... you guys are the ones that promise black people all sorts of freebies to keep them under your control while Republicans promise to help them help themselves, they are the ones that choose the easiest way out.

We, your Democrat party, will give you money for every kid you have, food stamps to buy 40s and cigarettes with, money and a slot ahead of a more deserving white boy for school, we will make sure you get all government run jobs no matter how inept you are(don't ask us to train you though), we will demand that you are bailed out of all the crap you get yourselves into( like in New Orleans when you stayed around to loot the city).



So you think this is perfectly fine to say this?

Why is it do you think black people are willing to shame themselves this way if it the "truth" according to you?

[theHawk]

the attacks on McCain will come from patriotic former POW's. Many of them are convinced he ratted them out and signed the confession to get better treatment for himself. I can't wait to watch him blow a gasket in front of a television camera.... show us the calm steady leadership style he continues to hype. He doesn't know shit about the economy, and he doesnt know shit about who the hell is fighting whom in the middle east as evidenced by his gaffe yesterday.

And Obama does with his 'I'll pull out of Iraq and go back in if Al Qeada establishes a base there'? :poke:

If the worst you have on McCain is a "gaffe" when he said Iran was sponsoring AQ when he meant terrorists, then its pretty obvious you're grasping at straws.

[retiredman]

And Obama does with his 'I'll pull out of Iraq and go back in if Al Qeada establishes a base there'? :poke:

If the worst you have on McCain is a "gaffe" when he said Iran was sponsoring AQ when he meant terrorists, then its pretty obvious you're grasping at straws.


Al Qaeda...the real deal...is NOT in Iraq. the group that calls itself "Al Qaeda in Iraq" or Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia" is a homegrown franchise operation.

And McCain meant Al Qaeda.... that is what he said. He didn't "correct" himself until Joe Lieberman gave him a quick lesson.

The fact is... everyone in this administration uses "al qaeda" interchangeably with "iraqi insurgents" and they do so for a very calculated reason.....to keep our war there tied to 9/11.

[truthmatters]

McSame.

He is and will continue to do commit the same mistakes and lies of this admin.

[truthmatters]

No, it is the Democrats that are the racists...... you guys are the ones that promise black people all sorts of freebies to keep them under your control while Republicans promise to help them help themselves, they are the ones that choose the easiest way out.

We, your Democrat party, will give you money for every kid you have, food stamps to buy 40s and cigarettes with, money and a slot ahead of a more deserving white boy for school, we will make sure you get all government run jobs no matter how inept you are(don't ask us to train you though), we will demand that you are bailed out of all the crap you get yourselves into( like in New Orleans when you stayed around to loot the city).


This will never be forgotten by me fella.

[theHawk]

Al Qaeda...the real deal...is NOT in Iraq. the group that calls itself "Al Qaeda in Iraq" or Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia" is a homegrown franchise operation.

And McCain meant Al Qaeda.... that is what he said. He didn't "correct" himself until Joe Lieberman gave him a quick lesson.

The fact is... everyone in this administration uses "al qaeda" interchangeably with "iraqi insurgents" and they do so for a very calculated reason.....to keep our war there tied to 9/11.

Oh, so Abu Musab al-Zarqawi wasn't in "the real Al Qaeda." Or maybe he just happened to be in Iraq on summer vaction from his day job in the real Al Qaeda when he got bombed.

Pull your head out of your ass MFM. :poke:

[truthmatters]

He was in Iraq because we went there .

He was also not fond of AQ.

facts are a stubborn thing

[manu1959]

He was in Iraq because we went there .



was he working for the red cross at the time............

[truthmatters]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Musab_al-Zarqawi#Pre_U.S._Invasion_of_Iraq


facts are stubborn things

[manu1959]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Musab_al-Zarqawi#Pre_U.S._Invasion_of_Iraq


facts are stubborn things

so he wasn't working for the red cross .... thanks for clearing that up.....

from your source.....After the September 11 attacks, Zarqawi again traveled to Afghanistan and joined Taliban and al-Qaeda fighters resisting the U.S.-led invasion.[13] He was allegedly[attribution needed] wounded in a U.S. bombardment. He moved to Iran to re-organize al-Tawhid, his former militant organization. In the summer of 2002, Zarqawi was reported to have settled in northern Iraq, where he joined the Islamist Ansar al-Islam group that fought against the Kurdish-nationalist forces in the region.

hey wait....that was before we invaded in march of 03?.....and sadama was still in power....and he was fighting against the same rebels saddam fought against.....

[hjmick]

Let's see...where did they find Abu Abbas? Where was it he had been living all those years since hijacking the Achille Lauro and murdering wheelchair bound American Leon Klinghoffer?

[truthmatters]

What was it that that new pentagon study said about AQ ties?

[hjmick]

What was it that that new pentagon study said about AQ ties?

Same thing I was saying years ago without doing a study.

[retiredman]

Oh, so Abu Musab al-Zarqawi wasn't in "the real Al Qaeda." Or maybe he just happened to be in Iraq on summer vaction from his day job in the real Al Qaeda when he got bombed.

Pull your head out of your ass MFM. :poke:

Zarqawi was not an ally of Saddam. Saddam was trying to capture him, as a matter of fact. And...when he was in Iraq prior to the war, he was NOT even a member of Al Qaeda...it was only after our invasion of Iraq that he affiliated himself with OBL.

[retiredman]

Let's see...where did they find Abu Abbas? Where was it he had been living all those years since hijacking the Achille Lauro and murdering wheelchair bound American Leon Klinghoffer?

What does Abu Abbas have to do with Al Qaeda? Or are you still believing that all raghead terrorists have the same mission?

[truthmatters]

pretty silly huh?

[stephanie]

the fact that a black democrat brought up the issue of race is not in dispute. the fact that your party is the party of black hating racists is also not in dispute. 90% of black americans are well aware of that fact and vote democratic accordingly.

Why is it only 90%...why not 100%?:poke:

[retiredman]

Why is it only 90%...why not 100%?:poke:

why is it not 90-10 for YOUR side?:poke::poke::poke::poke::poke:

[Immanuel]

why is it not 90-10 for YOUR side?:poke::poke::poke::poke::poke:

Why are there sides? Why isn't it, we are all on the same side? Don't we all want to make America a better place to live?

Immie

[hjmick]

What does Abu Abbas have to do with Al Qaeda? Or are you still believing that all raghead terrorists have the same mission?

Abu Abbas and his presence in Iraq goes to the argument that Saddam had ties to and harbored terrorists, as does the fact that Saddam paid the families of suicide bombers. To claim that Saddam had no ties to terrorism is to live with your head in the sand.

I have never believed that Saddam had ties to al Qaeda. I have never believed that all terrorist, Muslim or otherwise, share the same goals. Your characterization to the contrary is laughable.

[truthmatters]

Good question.

Why dont you take that one to the republican party and ask them to embrace everyone and quit doing things to disenfranchise black voters?

[truthmatters]

Abu Abbas and his presence in Iraq goes to the argument that Saddam had ties to and harbored terrorists, as does the fact that Saddam paid the families of suicide bombers. To claim that Saddam had no ties to terrorism is to live with your head in the sand.

I have never believed that Saddam had ties to al Qaeda. I have never believed that all terrorist, Muslim or otherwise, share the same goals. Your characterization to the contrary is laughable.

Sadam was a big dickhead.

He had no ties to AQ.

Im glad we can agree on the facts.

[stephanie]

why is it not 90-10 for YOUR side?:poke::poke::poke::poke::poke:

Skirting the question I see.
It wouldn't be because the stats you have thrown out there are a bunch of bull, would it..:laugh2:

Why isn't it 100%..if the Republican party is as bad as they say they are..??

[truthmatters]

Skirting the question I see.
It couldn't be because your stats are full of bull, would it..:laugh2:

Why isn't it 100%..if the Republican party is as bad as they say they are..??


because 10 % are willing to vote with the party who would disenfranchise people because of their race.

Go figure?

[manu1959]

Good question.

Why dont you take that one to the republican party and ask them to embrace everyone and quit doing things to disenfranchise black voters?

are you fighting the good fight to get the poor black dem voters in florida franchised.........

[retiredman]

Abu Abbas and his presence in Iraq goes to the argument that Saddam had ties to and harbored terrorists, as does the fact that Saddam paid the families of suicide bombers. To claim that Saddam had no ties to terrorism is to live with your head in the sand.

I have never believed that Saddam had ties to al Qaeda. I have never believed that all terrorist, Muslim or otherwise, share the same goals. Your characterization to the contrary is laughable.

tell me a government in the middle east - besides Israel - that did NOT have ties to palestinian terror groups.

I'll wait.

[Immanuel]

Good question.

Why dont you take that one to the republican party and ask them to embrace everyone and quit doing things to disenfranchise black voters?

Because they'd laugh at me. I am not a Republican. Or worse yet, they would ask for a sizeable donation then they would laugh at me.

Immie

[hjmick]

tell me a government in the middle east - besides Israel - that did NOT have ties to palestinian terror groups.

I'll wait.

There isn't one, but then this discussion is about Saddam Hussein.

[manu1959]

tell me a government in the middle east - besides Israel - that did NOT have ties to palestinian terror groups.

I'll wait.

i will guess.........UAE and kuwait......links please.....

[manu1959]

There isn't one, but then this discussion is about Saddam Hussein.

not if he can change the subject or use bad behaviour to justify bad behaviour ..... deversion ....

[hjmick]

i will guess.........UAE and kuwait......links please.....

Even those two have some questionable ties to the Palestinian cause.

[manu1959]

Even those two have some questionable ties to the Palestinian cause.

link me up.....

[retiredman]

Even those two have some questionable ties to the Palestinian cause.

every arab nation provided support to the PLO.

And it was YOU, who brought up Abu Abbas and Klinghoffer.... again... the terrorists who attacked us were NOT fighting for palestinian statehood...they were NOT arab nationalists like the kind of paramilitary groups Saddam trained....

the type of terrorists Saddam trained are completely irrelevant to this discussion and YOUR introducing them is obfuscation.

[Abbey Marie]

I'd like to see how you'd hold up as a POW being beaten and having your bones broke. You liberals truely are pieces of shit if you're going to go after McCain on that. Naturally the libs will in this election. I think that will be a big mistake. This man isn't John Kerry, he was a real POW who went through real torture. The conservative base isn't fired up about McCain, but they won't stand by and allow pussy-assed liberals to attack a POW like that.


Hawk, I hope they do go after McCain like that. It will just blow up in their faces and garner him more votes.

[manu1959]

every arab nation provided support to the PLO.

And it was YOU, who brought up Abu Abbas and Klinghoffer.... again... the terrorists who attacked us were NOT fighting for palestinian statehood...they were NOT arab nationalists like the kind of paramilitary groups Saddam trained....

the type of terrorists Saddam trained are completely irrelevant to this discussion and YOUR introducing them is obfuscation.

they claim was .... saddam had no ties to any terrorist groups....none....nada....zip....

thanks for helping out though......

[Kathianne]

Good question.

Why dont you take that one to the republican party and ask them to embrace everyone and quit doing things to disenfranchise black voters?

Why aren't you complaining about FL and MI democrat state parties disenfranchising all their democratic voters today?

[Kathianne]

tell me a government in the middle east - besides Israel - that did NOT have ties to palestinian terror groups.

I'll wait.

Yet they're not working in concert. :rolleyes: More to the point, which ME states has been most instrumental in arming those Palestinian terror groups? Neither is our friend.

[retiredman]

Why aren't you complaining about FL and MI democrat state parties disenfranchising all their democratic voters today?

they made their bed, let them lie in it.

I have no sympathy for the democratic voters in Michigan and Florida. They need to kick their leadership out.

[retiredman]

they claim was .... saddam had no ties to any terrorist groups....none....nada....zip....

thanks for helping out though......


who made that claim?

[retiredman]

Yet they're not working in concert. :rolleyes: More to the point, which ME states has been most instrumental in arming those Palestinian terror groups? Neither is our friend.

I would imagine that the PLO was more financially supported by Saudi Arabia than anyone else. And according to Team Bush, they ARE our friends.

[Kathianne]

I would imagine that the PLO was more financially supported by Saudi Arabia than anyone else. And according to Team Bush, they ARE our friends.

Considering we are speaking of both Hamas and Hizbollah, SA isn't necessarily the largest supporter today. You are correct though, SA is not our friend.

[hjmick]

every arab nation provided support to the PLO.

Yes they do. And if they spent half as much time lifting the Palestinians up as the do getting them to blow themselves up, the Middle East would look much different.


And it was YOU, who brought up Abu Abbas and Klinghoffer.... again...

Yes I did.


the terrorists who attacked us were NOT fighting for palestinian statehood...they were NOT arab nationalists like the kind of paramilitary groups Saddam trained....

the type of terrorists Saddam trained are completely irrelevant to this discussion and YOUR introducing them is obfuscation.

No, I was introducing them as an example of Saddam's obvious ties to terrorism. I consider these facts to be pertinent.

How it is that you believe that the fact that Saddam trained terrorists, paid terrorists and their families, allowed terrorists to live in Iraq, had obvious ties to terrorism, is irrelevant to a discussion about the invasion is beyond comprehension.

I mean, I get that your whole argument hinges on the whole "Bush and Cheney said..." aspect of the war. They were wrong and now you're pissed. You feel they lied. I get it, really. I'm not even sure I disagree with you.

Confronting Saddam on a military level was, in my opinion, inevitable. It should not have occurred until absolutely necessary and it should have certainly waited until after that stain of human existence bin Laden was wiped off the face of the planet. Do I wish it they had waited? You bet. They didn't and now we are where we are.

[theHawk]

Zarqawi was not an ally of Saddam. Saddam was trying to capture him, as a matter of fact. And...when he was in Iraq prior to the war, he was NOT even a member of Al Qaeda...it was only after our invasion of Iraq that he affiliated himself with OBL.

I never said he was there on Saddam's behalf you moron. You are the one that stated that the "real Al Qaeda" isn't there. Yes, its true most of the terrorists including AQ didn't get there in large numbers until after we took out Saddam. But they are there now, the REAL AQ is. You can talk about it being Bush's fault all you want, it still doesn't change the fact that they are there now, and need to be dealt with.

[retiredman]

I never said he was there on Saddam's behalf you moron. You are the one that stated that the "real Al Qaeda" isn't there. Yes, its true most of the terrorists including AQ didn't get there in large numbers until after we took out Saddam. But they are there now, the REAL AQ is. You can talk about it being Bush's fault all you want, it still doesn't change the fact that they are there now, and need to be dealt with.


Al Qaeda has us exactly where they want us, and we continue to play into their hands. They "win" in Iraq, not by being militarily victorious, but by continuing to tie us down as an infidel occupying force in an arab land.

if we left, what chance do you think that a sunni extremist group like AQ is going to have in Iraq against sunni Iraqis who want them out and againt the vastly superior number of well equipped and armed shiite militias?

In our absence, do you really think that Al Qaeda could take over Iraq with Iran sitting right next door supporting the shiites?

And you are right... I CAN talk about it being Bush's fault...and I WILL talk about it being Bush's fault... and I will HANG Bush's errors around the neck of his accomplice and potential successor, McCain. Bet on it.

[JohnDoe]

Al Qaeda has us exactly where they want us, and we continue to play into their hands. They "win" in Iraq, not by being militarily victorious, but by continuing to tie us down as an infidel occupying force in an arab land.

if we left, what chance do you think that a sunni extremist group like AQ is going to have in Iraq against sunni Iraqis who want them out and againt the vastly superior number of well equipped and armed shiite militias?

In our absence, do you really think that Al Qaeda could take over Iraq with Iran sitting right next door supporting the shiites?

And you are right... I CAN talk about it being Bush's fault...and I WILL talk about it being Bush's fault... and I will HANG Bush's errors around the neck of his accomplice and potential successor, McCain. Bet on it.

don't forget the financial aspects of it too.....it could be they want to bust us financially...the longer we stay there.... as they finally did the soviets in afghanistan, no?

jd

[theHawk]

Al Qaeda has us exactly where they want us, and we continue to play into their hands. They "win" in Iraq, not by being militarily victorious, but by continuing to tie us down as an infidel occupying force in an arab land.

if we left, what chance do you think that a sunni extremist group like AQ is going to have in Iraq against sunni Iraqis who want them out and againt the vastly superior number of well equipped and armed shiite militias?

In our absence, do you really think that Al Qaeda could take over Iraq with Iran sitting right next door supporting the shiites?

And you are right... I CAN talk about it being Bush's fault...and I WILL talk about it being Bush's fault... and I will HANG Bush's errors around the neck of his accomplice and potential successor, McCain. Bet on it.

Well now your changing the subject.

I don't think they 'have us right where they want us'. They want us destroyed, they are no where near that. I understand that just being in the middle east serves as a rallying cry for the muzzies, that was their primary motivation for attacking the WTC in 1993, and a Osama's motivation for his war on the US. But unless we pull out of the entire middle east, they won't be satisfied. You seem to think that if we pull out of Iraq, the crazy muzzies won't have much motivation to join up with terrorists. But wait, they did join up with terrorists prior to us going into Iraq. If you want to appease them and take away that motivating factor, we'd have to pull out of Iraq, Afganistan, Kuwait, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and every other ME country we have a presence in. Not to mention we'd have to stop supporting Israel. So unless you contend we should pull out of the entire region and denounce Israel, its a moot point to believe that if we pull out of Iraq its somehow going to curb the crazies from joining up with terrorists.

[retiredman]

Well now your changing the subject.

I don't think they 'have us right where they want us'. They want us destroyed, they are no where near that. I understand that just being in the middle east serves as a rallying cry for the muzzies, that was their primary motivation for attacking the WTC in 1993, and a Osama's motivation for his war on the US. But unless we pull out of the entire middle east, they won't be satisfied. You seem to think that if we pull out of Iraq, the crazy muzzies won't have much motivation to join up with terrorists. But wait, they did join up with terrorists prior to us going into Iraq. If you want to appease them and take away that motivating factor, we'd have to pull out of Iraq, Afganistan, Kuwait, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and every other ME country we have a presence in. Not to mention we'd have to stop supporting Israel. So unless you contend we should pull out of the entire region and denounce Israel, its a moot point to believe that if we pull out of Iraq its somehow going to curb the crazies from joining up with terrorists.

no one said anything about appeasing anyone. And no one said that our withdrawal from Iraq would remove any motivation for disenfranchised muslims to consider islamic extremism as a path for their lives, but only that it would decrease that motivation. Our presence in Iraq motivates terrorists...our presence in Iraq will NOT stop the enmity that exists between sunni and shiite..... whenever we leave, the shiites will assume total control, and they will form an alliance with their shiite brethren in Iran. The longer we stay, the longer we delay that inevitability, the more lives WE lose, the more billions and billions of dollars we waste, and the more we motivate our real enemies.

[theHawk]

So you think we should pull out and let Iran essentially become the super power of the ME, just because its 'inevitable'. Thats a great foreign policy.

:cuckoo:

[manu1959]

no one said anything about appeasing anyone. And no one said that our withdrawal from Iraq would remove any motivation for disenfranchised muslims to consider islamic extremism as a path for their lives, but only that it would decrease that motivation. Our presence in Iraq motivates terrorists...our presence in Iraq will NOT stop the enmity that exists between sunni and shiite..... whenever we leave, the shiites will assume total control, and they will form an alliance with their shiite brethren in Iran. The longer we stay, the longer we delay that inevitability, the more lives WE lose, the more billions and billions of dollars we waste, and the more we motivate our real enemies.

so if we leave ...they will loose their motivation to kill us and we will return to the peaceful times of the clinton years......

[retiredman]

so if we leave ...they will loose their motivation to kill us and we will return to the peaceful times of the clinton years......

you obviously cannot read. did you fucking MISS this:

"And no one said that our withdrawal from Iraq would remove any motivation for disenfranchised muslims to consider islamic extremism as a path for their lives."

we are never going to RETURN anywhere.... it would seem, going forward, that doing things to INCREASE the motivation of our enemies and that also cost us blood and treasure and accomplish nothing purposeful would be a bad idea.

[manu1959]

you obviously cannot read. did you fucking MISS this:

"And no one said that our withdrawal from Iraq would remove any motivation for disenfranchised muslims to consider islamic extremism as a path for their lives."

we are never going to RETURN anywhere.... it would seem, going forward, that doing things to INCREASE the motivation of our enemies and that also cost us blood and treasure and accomplish nothing purposeful would be a bad idea.

so if we leave extreamist will try to kill us and if we leave extreamists will try to kill us.....seems like a good plan....

[retiredman]

so if we leave extreamist will try to kill us and if we leave extreamists will try to kill us.....seems like a good plan....


trying to communicate with you when you rely only on snappy misspelled soundbites is getting tiresome. Do me a favor: go read my latest post on the blog and come back and try to discuss it with some degree of sincerity, OK?

I'll wait

[manu1959]

trying to communicate with you when you rely only on snappy misspelled soundbites is getting tiresome. Do me a favor: go read my latest post on the blog and come back and try to discuss it with some degree of sincerity, OK?

I'll wait

i did....you offer no solutions there either......you are a good critic i will give you that......

[retiredman]

i did....you offer no solutions there either......you are a good critic i will give you that......

the solution starts with realizing the basic truism: when you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop digging. We are not fighting a nation state, we are fighting an ideology. And that ideology breeds on the anger and futility and feelings of hopelessness and disenfranchisement in the islamic world. When we attack that ideology militarily in a nationstate setting, we do more harm than good. The first step in any solution must be to stop doing more harm than good. stop digging. In the final analysis, we cannot "win" a military victory against islamic extremism. We must win an ideological victory.

[manu1959]

the solution starts with realizing the basic truism: when you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop digging. We are not fighting a nation state, we are fighting an ideology. And that ideology breeds on the anger and futility and feelings of hopelessness and disenfranchisement in the islamic world. When we attack that ideology militarily in a nationstate setting, we do more harm than good. The first step in any solution must be to stop doing more harm than good. stop digging. In the final analysis, we cannot "win" a military victory against islamic extremism. We must win an ideological victory.

tell me ..... prior to bush's foray into the middle east, how was the peacefull war agianst the ideology going .....

any way lots of rehtoric and no solutins....you should be a movie critic....

anyway i am off to get richer and make someone else poorer....but that should give the dems someone to diss-empower with some programs....

[Pale Rider]

The war started because saddam had WMD's... now, according to bush, his excuse for being there has evolved all the way to "save the world economy."

Who here is willing to define "victory in Iraq?" Tell me... exactly what is that? Especially you people who feel the war is absolutely open ended, and any and all reasons to pull out are just bunk... I want to hear something specific about what you call "victory," or what it is you have to see before you believe we should leave..... let's here it.....

[retiredman]

tell me ..... prior to bush's foray into the middle east, how was the peacefull war agianst the ideology going .....

any way lots of rehtoric and no solutins....you should be a movie critic....

anyway i am off to get richer and make someone else poorer....but that should give the dems someone to diss-empower with some programs....


tell me...when will you quit looking backwards for some justification for the actions taken today?

quit trying to put lipstick on a pig.

you are being willfully obtuse and I really am growing tired of continuing this discussion under those terms.

[manu1959]

tell me...when will you quit looking backwards for some justification for the actions taken today?

quit trying to put lipstick on a pig.

you are being willfully obtuse and I really am growing tired of continuing this discussion under those terms.
those who do not look to history and its lessons are condemned to repeat it......

you really are only a critic aren't you......you are one of those people that won't lead and won't follow .... you will just stand there and bitch and point out all the things that might go wrong.....or may not work....but you offer no solutions and really have no ideas to solve the problem other than to say you have a better plan but no implementation items or process.....

hope and change baby....hope and change......

[Pale Rider]

The war started because saddam had WMD's... now, according to bush, his excuse for being there has evolved all the way to "save the world economy."

Who here is willing to define "victory in Iraq?" Tell me... exactly what is that? Especially you people who feel the war is absolutely open ended, and any and all reasons to pull out are just bunk... I want to hear something specific about what you call "victory," or what it is you have to see before you believe we should leave..... let's here it.....

I didn't think I'd get any takers on this... reason? Because nobody knows what we're doing in Iraq right now. Nobody knows what our mission is. Nobody knows when we'll leave. Well... mccain does... in another 100 years.

Well I can tell you what we're doing in Iraq in one word... "oil."

[retiredman]

those who do not look to history and it's lessons are condemnd to repeat it......

you really are only a critic aren't you......you are one of those people that won't lead and won't follow .... you will just stand there and bitch and point out all the things that might go wrong.....or may not work....but you offer no solutions and really have no ideas to solve the problem other than to say you have a better plan but no implimention items or process.....

hope and change baby....hope and change......

That is not so. Over the years, I have offered many suggested avenues for alternative approaches to our conflict with radical islam... many of them were dismissed by YOU, I seem to recall.

As a matter of fact, I am having a deja vu moment right now and seem to recall you asking me a similar question and me taking the time to go through many ideas that I had had.... only to be pooh poohed by you with another of your soundbites.

[manu1959]

I didn't think I'd get any takers on this... reason? Because nobody knows what we're doing in Iraq right now. Nobody knows what our mission is. Nobody knows when we'll leave. Well... mccain does... in another 100 years.

Well I can tell you what we're doing in Iraq in one word... "oil."

victory will be defined as an iraq that can govern and defend itself .... we are still there because they can't yet.....if we were there for the oli all we would have had to do is lift the embargo against saddam....give him millions in foriegn aid and strart buying hi oil.....same as germany france russia and china were doing in spite of the embargo....further if we were there for the oil why are we letting iraq sell it to china and we don't just take it....

[Pale Rider]

victory will be defined as an iraq that can govern and defend itself .... we are still there because they can't yet.....if we were there for the oli all we would have had to do is lift the embargo against saddam....give him millions in foriegn aid and strart buying hi oil.....same as germany france russia and china were doing in spite of the embargo....further if we were there for the oil why are we letting iraq sell it to china and we don't just take it....

Well, I think Iraq can govern and defend itself, right now, so that definition of victory doesn't work. They have a better trained and better armed army now than they had when saddam was in power.

It's oil... it's all about the oil. Bush has admitted that himself. He's afraid that "IF" we leave, Iran may somehow be able to gain control of the oil fields and cut off supply to America. That would crush us. We import 75% of all our oil. We use 25,000,000 barrels of oil a DAY. There's only one way this country can have a strategic ace in the hole in case we're EVER attacked, and that's to have first hand access to oil. If we pull out and THEN we're attacked, and THEN oil is cut off from us, we're fucked. Yes, it's all about the oil. Oil, oil, oil. The dems know this too... and that's why they always back down when it comes to pulling us out.

[Immanuel]

Well, I think Iraq can govern and defend itself, right now, so that definition of victory doesn't work.



Yeah, at least as well as they did in both Gulf Wars. :D

Immie

[manu1959]

Well, I think Iraq can govern and defend itself, right now, so that definition of victory doesn't work. They have a better trained and better armed army now than they had when saddam was in power.

It's oil... it's all about the oil. Bush has admitted that himself. He's afraid that "IF" we leave, Iran may somehow be able to gain control of the oil fields and cut off supply to America. That would crush us. We import 75% of all our oil. We use 25,000,000 barrels of oil a DAY. There's only one way this country can have a strategic ace in the hole in case we're EVER attacked, and that's to have first hand access to oil. If we pull out and THEN we're attacked, and THEN oil is cut off from us, we're fucked. Yes, it's all about the oil. Oil, oil, oil. The dems know this too... and that's why they always back down when it comes to pulling us out.

iraq already has control of the oil fields...already signed an exclusive with china and is already banking the profits......we do have access to oil .... start drilling in alaska.....

[Pale Rider]

iraq already has control of the oil fields...already signed an exclusive with china and is already banking the profits......we do have access to oil .... start drilling in alaska.....

Actually, we hold most of the money that Iraq makes as profit in our banks.

Drill in Alaska... well, we could, but in the last ten years, the Alaskan pipe line flows only 25% of what it used to. Most of what is left in Alaska is heavy crude, and very hard to pump out. They're building steam pumps to heat the crude to help pump it out, same as they've done in the California fields, and the energy it takes to do that could run a large air conditioner in the window of every home in America. Real good. Using that much energy to get energy.

Oil is running out. It's going to be gone period everywhere in the next fifty years. What we better start doing is inventing new forms of power that are viable. We're fucked if we don't. What we're doing in Iraq is trying to hold on until that day comes.

[JohnDoe]

victory will be defined as an iraq that can govern and defend itself .... we are still there because they can't yet.....if we were there for the oli all we would have had to do is lift the embargo against saddam....give him millions in foriegn aid and strart buying hi oil.....same as germany france russia and china were doing in spite of the embargo....further if we were there for the oil why are we letting iraq sell it to china and we don't just take it....


70 countries are bidding for Iraqi oil.... I don't see where they signed a contract with any of them yet.....

http://www.iht.com/articles/reuters/2008/02/18/news/OUKWD-UK-IRAQ-OIL.php

[Yurt]

Actually, we hold most of the money that Iraq makes as profit in our banks.

Drill in Alaska... well, we could, but in the last ten years, the Alaskan pipe line flows only 25% of what it used to. Most of what is left in Alaska is heavy crude, and very hard to pump out. They're building steam pumps to heat the crude to help pump it out, same as they've done in the California fields, and the energy it takes to do that could run a large air conditioner in the window of every home in America. Real good. Using that much energy to get energy.

Oil is running out. It's going to be gone period everywhere in the next fifty years. What we better start doing is inventing new forms of power that are viable. We're fucked if we don't. What we're doing in Iraq is trying to hold on until that day comes.

you are right about crude, and you are probably right about Iraq, somewhat, in that Iraq has the sweet crude, the gem of all oil. the ME contains the sweet, which makes them the money.

pessimisticly, iraq was about oil. i don't believe the cup is half full on that one though. at that time there was crazy shit, still is, happening in the ME, sodamnisane, gave the perfect reason for the US to esablish itself in the ME, something the US needed. it wasn't only about oil, give me a break, we just/or going to pumped 200 billion in the credit market. which i don't think we should have.

Question for you and others:

america relies on a world that is stable