Two long time money guys say we are in big trouble

[truthmatters]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aMVeMY2hvYUI&refer=home

These guys have seen it all folks and they are really worried.


Granville, born in 1923, remembers his banker father's bad moods following the stock-market crash of 1929. The younger Granville began his career at defunct brokerage E.F. Hutton in 1957, quit in 1963 to begin publishing a weekly newsletter and wrote nine books on investing.

``We're in a crash,'' Granville, 84, said in a telephone interview from Kansas City, Missouri, where he lives and works. ``This is the worst I've seen, and I've studied every bit of history all my life.''

[Yurt]

whats your point? more negativity today?

[truthmatters]

Its good to know what is in store even if its negative.

Pretending everything is OK when it is not is just plain stupid.

[Yurt]

Its good to know what is in store even if its negative.

Pretending everything is OK when it is not is just plain stupid.

so is believing the worst, if you believe it then it will happen

[truthmatters]

Man your team keeps blaming those with the ability to read the signs as "wishing makes it so" people.

I could talk doom all day long in a good economy and not effect it one little bit.

Please be rational and realise these guys have seen it all and are reading the economic indicators and they dont look good.

[Yurt]

Man your team keeps blaming those with the ability to read the signs as "wishing makes it so" people.

I could talk doom all day long in a good economy and not effect it one little bit.

Please be rational and realise these guys have seen it all and are reading the economic indicators and they dont look good.

"my team" are you drunk... i post my opinions, i don't have a team....

[truthmatters]

Your team is whoever you side with who thinks it wrong to trust people who have good track records to read the economy.

[Sitarro]

I seem to remember Democrats shitting bricks when then candidate George Bush said we were heading for a recession. The battle cry from them was that he was talking down the economy........ isn't that what the Democrats and their puppets in the news media have been doing since President Bush was elected?

[truthmatters]

I seem to remember Democrats shitting bricks when then candidate George Bush said we were heading for a recession. The battle cry from them was that he was talking down the economy........ isn't that what the Democrats and their puppets in the news media have been doing since President Bush was elected?


This economy is already screwed buddy and you have the Bush team to thank.

[manu1959]

Its good to know what is in store even if its negative.

Pretending everything is OK when it is not is just plain stupid.

depends which markets you are invested in.....

[manu1959]

This economy is already screwed buddy and you have the Bush team to thank.

i have never met someone that takes so much joy in the misery and failure of others.....

[DragonStryk72]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aMVeMY2hvYUI&refer=home

These guys have seen it all folks and they are really worried.


Granville, born in 1923, remembers his banker father's bad moods following the stock-market crash of 1929. The younger Granville began his career at defunct brokerage E.F. Hutton in 1957, quit in 1963 to begin publishing a weekly newsletter and wrote nine books on investing.

``We're in a crash,'' Granville, 84, said in a telephone interview from Kansas City, Missouri, where he lives and works. ``This is the worst I've seen, and I've studied every bit of history all my life.''

No one thing can cause the economy to take the turn that it has, and yes, it's definitely gotten horrible. We've screwed with business for years now, and the effects are finally catching up with us. Government cannot run a business, and when it tries to, it simply screws up everything.

throwing blame at one president, or another, is useless. The current state of the economy falls at the feet of our entire government, which has become bloated beyond reasonable boundaries, forcing our non-corporate businesses under heavier and heavier burdens, while providing corporate welfare to those that do get declared a corporation.

Some of the current woes can also be linked to our going off of the gold standard, which gave our money an inherent value, as a share of gold, a universal commodity. Now, our money simply stands for our money, which is easier for the government to overspend, since they can just "make more". It is worth nothing, worth less even than the paper it is written on. If we are to turn this around, we need to fundamental shift in our economic policy, and in the focus of our national priorities.

[Yurt]

Your team is whoever you side with who thinks it wrong to trust people who have good track records to read the economy.

oh that team, yeah, we're 11-0 against your team

[OCA]

Just to let everyone know how bad things are getting the Canadian dollar has been virtually equal to the American dollar lately and if I read it correctly today the Canadian dollar as of today became more valuable.

That raises eyebrows.

[manu1959]

Just to let everyone know how bad things are getting the Canadian dollar has been virtually equal to the American dollar lately and if I read it correctly today the Canadian dollar as of today became more valuable.

That raises eyebrows.

just means american products are more readily available to the rest of the world and america as a place to visit and spend money is more atainable.....this summer should be a tourist boon to non-americans....

[truthmatters]

No one thing can cause the economy to take the turn that it has, and yes, it's definitely gotten horrible. We've screwed with business for years now, and the effects are finally catching up with us. Government cannot run a business, and when it tries to, it simply screws up everything.

throwing blame at one president, or another, is useless. The current state of the economy falls at the feet of our entire government, which has become bloated beyond reasonable boundaries, forcing our non-corporate businesses under heavier and heavier burdens, while providing corporate welfare to those that do get declared a corporation.

Some of the current woes can also be linked to our going off of the gold standard, which gave our money an inherent value, as a share of gold, a universal commodity. Now, our money simply stands for our money, which is easier for the government to overspend, since they can just "make more". It is worth nothing, worth less even than the paper it is written on. If we are to turn this around, we need to fundamental shift in our economic policy, and in the focus of our national priorities.

We have been off the gold standard for a very long time. This current mess can be atributed to irresponsible fiscal policy and spending trillions on a war which is harming America as well as the Lack of a timely response to the deregulation of the lending industry which allowed this mess to snowball into what we see today.

Maybe we should go back to the gold standard but this still could have been avoided in the most part by good fiscal and regulatory control.

[avatar4321]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aMVeMY2hvYUI&refer=home

These guys have seen it all folks and they are really worried.


Granville, born in 1923, remembers his banker father's bad moods following the stock-market crash of 1929. The younger Granville began his career at defunct brokerage E.F. Hutton in 1957, quit in 1963 to begin publishing a weekly newsletter and wrote nine books on investing.

``We're in a crash,'' Granville, 84, said in a telephone interview from Kansas City, Missouri, where he lives and works. ``This is the worst I've seen, and I've studied every bit of history all my life.''

Your powers of deduction are exceptional. I simply can't allow you to waste them here while there are so many crimes going unsolved at this very moment. Go! Go! For the good of the city!

Conservatives have been warning about this for years. Why the heck do you think we want to cut back on the welfare state. It's the overspending in government that putting us in debt. It's the over spending in Washington that is killing our economy.

But no. You just have to have another social program that doesnt work. Heaven forbid people take responsibility for their own actions and take care of themselves or atleast take charity from churches, private organizations, or friends and family. No they have to be given "free" money from the government. Well newsflash. Those handouts aren't free. And they are destroying our economy.

And rather than deal with the real issue, you want the government to spend more. I am so sick and tired of this liberal disease on our country.

[avatar4321]

Its good to know what is in store even if its negative.

Pretending everything is OK when it is not is just plain stupid.

Well then stop pretending as though government can control more and more of the lives of people and things are going to be alright. Stop being a liberal.

[OCA]

just means american products are more readily available to the rest of the world and america as a place to visit and spend money is more atainable.....this summer should be a tourist boon to non-americans....

Too bad only a tiny fraction of Americans who are in the tourism industry will see any benefit from that. The rest of America will suffer.

When Bear Stearns sells for 256 million and their headquarters office building in N.Y. alone is worth several billion, that tells you things are gonna get real ugly!

Today the value of the dollar vs the Euro was at its lowest point ever and analysts are predicting 4.00+ gas by July. Don't start in on the price of gas in Europe, the difference there is the budgets of most Americans aren't equipped to handle 100+ fillups at the gas pump once a week. This will all trickle down, Americans will travel less, go out less and that means that every sector of the economy will feel the trickle down effect from less consumer spending.

We are in serious trouble, its time to stop saying we aren't.

[avatar4321]

Too bad only a tiny fraction of Americans who are in the tourism industry will see any benefit from that. The rest of America will suffer.

When Bear Stearns sells for 256 million and their headquarters office building in N.Y. alone is worth several billion, that tells you things are gonna get real ugly!

Today the value of the dollar vs the Euro was at its lowest point ever and analysts are predicting 4.00+ gas by July. Don't start in on the price of gas in Europe, the difference there is the budgets of most Americans aren't equipped to handle 100+ fillups at the gas pump once a week. This will all trickle down, Americans will travel less, go out less and that means that every sector of the economy will feel the trickle down effect from less consumer spending.

We are in serious trouble, its time to stop saying we aren't.

I've been saying we were in trouble for a while. I am just glad i get compensated for gas at work.

But this isnt a recession we are talking about. We are heading for a depression.

[Mr. P]

Don't worry folks, yer taxes are gonna be raised soon, that'll fix er.

[manu1959]

Too bad only a tiny fraction of Americans who are in the tourism industry will see any benefit from that. The rest of America will suffer.

When Bear Stearns sells for 256 million and their headquarters office building in N.Y. alone is worth several billion, that tells you things are gonna get real ugly!

Today the value of the dollar vs the Euro was at its lowest point ever and analysts are predicting 4.00+ gas by July. Don't start in on the price of gas in Europe, the difference there is the budgets of most Americans aren't equipped to handle 100+ fillups at the gas pump once a week. This will all trickle down, Americans will travel less, go out less and that means that every sector of the economy will feel the trickle down effect from less consumer spending.

We are in serious trouble, its time to stop saying we aren't.

america has been overvalued and overextended for years.....we pay out more money than we take in.....no one should be shocked by any of this.....good news this time is the financial meltdown has been spread world wide.....

this is why i have been saying for years....no more foreign aid....no more foreign military bases without compensation......invest in america......

[manu1959]

Don't worry folks, yer taxes are gonna be raised soon, that'll fix er.

need to pay for the "new deal" and all the public works projects to employ all the unemployed......

[OCA]

I've been saying we were in trouble for a while. I am just glad i get compensated for gas at work.

But this isnt a recession we are talking about. We are heading for a depression.

It really is simple, when the price of products and services rises faster than the incomes of consumers something somewhere has to break.

Now I don't know where we went wrong or don't know enough details or have enough knowledge to prescribe a fix, what I do know though is the backbone of America, your middle class, is going to get hit hard no matter how you look at it. I know a tax raise is never the answer but i'm not sure that tax cuts, at least the amount of taxes that Congress, any Congress whether it be Repub or Demo, are the answer either. Lets face it, those of us who want tax cuts, real deep tax cuts, are never going to see them.....ever. Congress is addicted to our money and the votes it gets them when they bring the money home for their favorite pork project.

If Congress would ever learn to live within a budget..........ah hell, i'm dreaming.

[manu1959]

It really is simple, when the price of products and services rises faster than the incomes of consumers something somewhere has to break.

Now I don't know where we went wrong or don't know enough details or have enough knowledge to prescribe a fix, what I do know though is the backbone of America, your middle class, is going to get hit hard no matter how you look at it. I know a tax raise is never the answer but i'm not sure that tax cuts, at least the amount of taxes that Congress, any Congress whether it be Repub or Demo, are the answer either. Lets face it, those of us who want tax cuts, real deep tax cuts, are never going to see them.....ever. Congress is addicted to our money and the votes it gets them when they bring the money home for their favorite pork project.

If Congress would ever learn to live within a budget..........ah hell, i'm dreaming.

very true.....and next up o'hillary to raise taxes and create programs such as national health care.....restrict gun ownership and cut military programs......

does this series of events remind anyone of any other period of history......

[OCA]

america has been overvalued and overextended for years.....we pay out more money than we take in.....no one should be shocked by any of this.....good news this time is the financial meltdown has been spread world wide.....

this is why i have been saying for years....no more foreign aid....no more foreign military bases without compensation......invest in america......

Doesn't matter to me the how or why, what matters to me is I pay my taxes(no matter how much I don't want to), I don't leach off the system by using services(other than roads) and I got a bunch of jackasses in D.C who fucking waste my money and trash the economy. Do they have to worry about it? Hell no! Most of them are millionaires anyway, they could give a rats ass about Americans.

[OCA]

very true.....and next up o'hillary to raise taxes and create programs such as national health care.....restrict gun ownership and cut military programs......

does this series of events remind anyone of any other period of history......

Although i'm not fond of national healthcare and such I don't see how that disaster can get any worse than the economic disaster of the Bush presidency.

[avatar4321]

It really is simple, when the price of products and services rises faster than the incomes of consumers something somewhere has to break.

Now I don't know where we went wrong or don't know enough details or have enough knowledge to prescribe a fix, what I do know though is the backbone of America, your middle class, is going to get hit hard no matter how you look at it. I know a tax raise is never the answer but i'm not sure that tax cuts, at least the amount of taxes that Congress, any Congress whether it be Repub or Demo, are the answer either. Lets face it, those of us who want tax cuts, real deep tax cuts, are never going to see them.....ever. Congress is addicted to our money and the votes it gets them when they bring the money home for their favorite pork project.

If Congress would ever learn to live within a budget..........ah hell, i'm dreaming.

we have a dream. the same dream

[5stringJeff]

The reason we're in such economic doo-doo is because the Fed (read: Ben Bernanke) won't quit raising interest rates. He's sacrificed price stability, which is the primary mission of the Fed.

[truthmatters]

No this started with the idiotic spending in Iraq of trillions of dollars of our tax revenues. Then it was sealed up by the sub prime fraud perpatrated by an unproperly regulated lending industry.

This did not have to happen like this.


This legislation had buried in it a deregulation of the lending industry. The bill was touted as a customer information protection act.

It allowed for the packaging of the subprime ot be hiden by the lenders so they could sell them at a profit. Before this act they would only do a very small percent of the loans as sub prime because they were not profitable. When in the early 2000s the problem was brought to the atte=ntion of the republican congress and the admin they refused it was a problem , refused to act and the president even made it so the states could not solve it themselves.

This did not have to get so bad.


http://banking.senate.gov/conf/

[Nukeman]

Just to let everyone know how bad things are getting the Canadian dollar has been virtually equal to the American dollar lately and if I read it correctly today the Canadian dollar as of today became more valuable.

That raises eyebrows.Thank you mister wizard..... Where the hell have you been the Canadian dollar has been equal for quite a while and has surpassed the US dollar on a number of occasions over the past 2 months

Way to keep up on current events..... Tey to do better next time...:poke:

[Nukeman]

No this started with the idiotic spending in Iraq of trillions of dollars of our tax revenues. Then it was sealed up by the sub prime fraud perpatrated by an unproperly regulated lending industry.

This did not have to happen like this.No dumb fuck this started in the later months of 1998 when the dot com bubble burst and then idiots like you decided to spend WAY too much for a house in California and inflated the housing market. It is based on very POOR choices of the masses not just the Fed. People are responsible for having on average 9,000 dollars in CREDIT card debt and no way to pay for it. When people decide they NEED a new TV instead of WANT one i when you have this type of problem....

[5stringJeff]

No this started with the idiotic spending in Iraq of trillions of dollars of our tax revenues. Then it was sealed up by the sub prime fraud perpatrated by an unproperly regulated lending industry.

This did not have to happen like this.

Well, if you really want to go back, it started with WWI deficit spending. The money we've spent on Iraq is only part of the deficit. The credit crunch and subprime debacle would not have nearly the effect on the economy if we had price stability. Oil, for instance, would only be $70/BBL instead of $110, if the dollar and kept its valuation with the euro.

[DragonStryk72]

No this started with the idiotic spending in Iraq of trillions of dollars of our tax revenues. Then it was sealed up by the sub prime fraud perpatrated by an unproperly regulated lending industry.

This did not have to happen like this.

This was already happening far before the Iraq war. In the past decade or so, we have more than tripled the size of the federal government, even under Clinton, its size continued to increase. Yes, Under the bush Administration, it definitely got sped up, but this process has been happening for some time, we're only just noticing it.

We have passed the buck, and passed the buck, but even, it's got to stop, and it may well be now that we have stepped across that line. this isn't even something that hasn't happened before, since we've already had a Great Depression.

No, the ongoing war in Iraq is certainly not helping matters, but the basic truth is, we've been spending much more than we take in for a very long time, and the time to pay up is getting near.

[truthmatters]

No this started with the idiotic spending in Iraq of trillions of dollars of our tax revenues. Then it was sealed up by the sub prime fraud perpatrated by an unproperly regulated lending industry.

This did not have to happen like this.


This legislation had buried in it a deregulation of the lending industry. The bill was touted as a customer information protection act.

It allowed for the packaging of the subprime ot be hiden by the lenders so they could sell them at a profit. Before this act they would only do a very small percent of the loans as sub prime because they were not profitable. When in the early 2000s the problem was brought to the atte=ntion of the republican congress and the admin they refused it was a problem , refused to act and the president even made it so the states could not solve it themselves.

This did not have to get so bad.


http://banking.senate.gov/conf/


I think you needc to actually read what I wrote and look at the link.

[OCA]

Thank you mister wizard..... Where the hell have you been the Canadian dollar has been equal for quite a while and has surpassed the US dollar on a number of occasions over the past 2 months

Way to keep up on current events..... Tey to do better next time...:poke:


Yeah i'll try to read up every day on the Canadian dollar.

Anyway doesn't change the fact that we are fucked.

[JohnDoe]

The reason we're in such economic doo-doo is because the Fed (read: Ben Bernanke) won't quit raising interest rates. He's sacrificed price stability, which is the primary mission of the Fed.
Hasn't he been lowering rates for a few months now? Is he behind the curve?

[Kathianne]

depends which markets you are invested in.....

Are you holding JPMC? There's a bit in my account. I'm happy.

[manu1959]

Are you holding JPMC? There's a bit in my account. I'm happy.

i am split into quaters........bonds.....emerging and foreign and domestic markets.......

[Mr. P]

I'm not running to the bank.

Now, maybe I should cash out my 401k pay the tax AND 20% penalty then buy GOLD!

Hey, it crossed my mind. Would it hurt or help? Hummmm

[Kathianne]

i am split into quaters........bonds.....emerging and foreign and domestic markets.......

Truth to tell, I'm moving mine around soon. Should have been sooner than later. ;)

[JohnDoe]

I'm not running to the bank.

Now, maybe I should cash out my 401k pay the tax AND 20% penalty then buy GOLD!

Hey, it crossed my mind. Would it hurt or help? Hummmm
my parents have liquid money and 5 years ago, after 9/11 I told them they should put some of their dough in to gold....they did not listen to me back then and are kicking themselves....

It all depends on the dollar Mr. P..... Can you place the bet that the dollar will continue to drop.... i think it is probably a safe bet that this admin will let it continue to fall, trying to get our trade deficit smaller...making usa goods more palatable is their thought....i don't agree with it and think a strong dollar means more all around than a stupid trade deficit...but not these guys....

so, yes, I still think that gold will continue to rise because the dollar will continue to fall.... go for it, even though it is way high now already, I think it will go higher... UNTIL we have an administration that takes pride in the Dollar again.... and focuses their policies on strengthening it...imo.

jd

[Kathianne]

my parents have liquid money and 5 years ago, after 9/11 I told them they should put some of their dough in to gold....they did not listen to me back then and are kicking themselves....

It all depends on the dollar Mr. P..... Can you place the bet that the dollar will continue to drop.... i think it is probably a safe bet that this admin will let it continue to fall, trying to get our trade deficit smaller...making usa goods more palatable is their thought....i don't agree with it and think a strong dollar means more all around than a stupid trade deficit...but not these guys....

so, yes, I still think that gold will continue to rise because the dollar will continue to fall.... go for it, even though it is way high now already, I think it will go higher... UNTIL we have an administration that takes pride in the Dollar again.... and focuses their policies on strengthening it...imo.

jd
It's going to hurt when they do. End of easy money, which is what this administration has made it's keystone since the last election.

[JohnDoe]

It's going to hurt when they do. End of easy money, which is what this administration has made it's keystone since the last election. Too easy, and i personally do think it is part of why we are in a mess right now...

there needs to be an inbetween, a happy medium...not too hard but not too easy...imo

jd

[Mr. P]

my parents have liquid money and 5 years ago, after 9/11 I told them they should put some of their dough in to gold....they did not listen to me back then and are kicking themselves....

It all depends on the dollar Mr. P..... Can you place the bet that the dollar will continue to drop.... i think it is probably a safe bet that this admin will let it continue to fall, trying to get our trade deficit smaller...making usa goods more palatable is their thought....i don't agree with it and think a strong dollar means more all around than a stupid trade deficit...but not these guys....

so, yes, I still think that gold will continue to rise because the dollar will continue to fall.... go for it, even though it is way high now already, I think it will go higher... UNTIL we have an administration that takes pride in the Dollar again.... and focuses their policies on strengthening it...imo.

jd

I think the penalty is 10% not 20...anyway...

So you think paying the tax and the penalty will be overcome by gold? Huh? The gold price can fall too ya know?

[Kathianne]

Too easy, and i personally do think it is part of why we are in a mess right now...

there needs to be an inbetween, a happy medium...not too hard but not too easy...imo

jd

Raise the interest rates and back the dollar. It's skidding way, way too long.

[DragonStryk72]

I think the penalty is 10% not 20...anyway...

So you think paying the tax and the penalty will be overcome by gold? Huh? The gold price can fall too ya know?

Why do people insist on skipping whole segments to disagree with one point as though it were the only one? As I said, leaving the gold standard was one of the things (read: not all of) that got this ball rolling, along with far too much interference with business, corporate welfare, the second highest business taxes in the world.

Everyone keeps trying to pin it on one thing, one thing that we can point at and say, "there, that's how it went wrong!" Such is not the case, it is the culmination of many factors, all of which come together to form the current cluster fuck that is our economic situation.

[manu1959]

Raise the interest rates and back the dollar. It's skidding way, way too long.

banks need liquidity.......or everything folds in........

[JohnDoe]

I think the penalty is 10% not 20...anyway...

So you think paying the tax and the penalty will be overcome by gold? Huh? The gold price can fall too ya know?

Paying the tax now...depends on your income level and deductions and what tax bracket that brings you down to...

But as I see it, TAXES are going to go up BIGTIME.... I am converting as many traditional IRA's to Roth IRA's as I can each year now....and paying the tax now....it will be less than later on imho....

Gold can fall too, it has before....but as long as the dollar is weak, I do not believe it will...

besides, it's the only "real" money out there... can't hurt to own some, no matter what...i wish i did all along.

jd

[manu1959]

Paying the tax now...depends on your income level and deductions and what tax bracket that brings you down to...

But as I see it, TAXES are going to go up BIGTIME.... I am converting as many traditional IRA's to Roth IRA's as I can each year now....and paying the tax now....it will be less than later on imho....

Gold can fall too, it has before....but as long as the dollar is weak, I do not believe it will...

besides, it's the only "real" money out there... can't hurt to own some, no matter what...i wish i did all along.

jd


when gold was tied to the dollar it was one thing ...now it isn't.....look at gold 20 years ago then look at the market over the past 20 years ....tell me which way you would have done better...

[JohnDoe]

when gold was tied to the dollar it was one thing ...now it isn't.....look at gold 20 years ago then look at the market over the past 20 years ....tell me which way you would have done better...
not having time to look, my guess would be the stock market/dollar.....?

times are different now though....we are in a global economy....there's a push to one currency now just in its beginnings the last decade.... a week dollar makes this transition easier.... i will fight it tooth and nail to keep our sovereignty, but i bet some are wishing they owned EUROS now....who would have thunk it?


if the dollar dropped 40% being worth 60 cents on the dollar, it will take a near 70% increase to bring it back up to the 100% worth again...not an easy feat!

the more we print paper money like there is no tomorrow and dump it in the market, the dollar will decline and gold will be worth more don;t you think?

i am no economist so i am guessing at half this crap!

==================================

WARNING WARNING MR.P!!!
mr p., do not listen to me!!!!! I DONT want to be responsible for any of yur financial decisions!