Obama's judgemetn under fire for longtime membership in Trinity Church

[Little-Acorn]

Not many people believe that Barack Obama agrees with the racist and inflammatory statements made by his self-described minister and spiritual leader Jeremiah Wright. But many are starting to question his judgement in staying so closely associated with the man for twenty-plus years. It's virtually impossible Obama couldn't have know how the man felt about America, white people, and everything else he castigated so vehemently in the tapes being shown widely on TV (except on ABC, NBC, and CBS).

Obama has been running for President of the United States, and one of his strongest attributes, he'sbeen saying, is his good judgement.

A TV host asked some good questions a few nights ago. He pointed out that if he were in a church and heard the pastor saying things like that, he would get up and walk out, and not come back. The host then gestured to the camera and asked the audience, "Wouldn't you?" He then asked, "Why didn't Obama?"

He then asked, "What kind of 'judgement' does it show on Obama's part, to have stayed so closely associated with a man with such nutty and racist biases, when he had to know how strongly and vilely the man was uttering them in his church?" Churchgoers are more then a congregation. They are a community. They talk amongst themselves, and it's hard to believe they wouldn't have talked to each other about such ringing and vile condemnations of our country, the government, the rehashing of so many wild conspiracy theories with an air of total belief after hearing them from this preacher.

People are starting to question Obama's judgement, not because they feel he believe's the preacher's wild rantings, but because he stayed so close to them man despite them, repeatedly calls him his "spiritual adviser", and even hired the man to work on his (Obama's) Presidential campaign.

And Obama's wife's comments from a few weeks ago, where she said she was finally proud of her country for the first time in her adult life, begin to make more sense when we consider what she's been hearing in church for the last twenty years or so. I'm starting to feel she said them, not as a slip of the tongue, but because she really meant them. Perhaps she simply didn't realize that most people outside her circles might not agree.

Should Barack Obama gain the Presidency, that fanatical racist preacher will not accompany him into the White House. At least, I hope not. But his wife certainly will, of course, as every married President's wife always does. And it sounds like he will have a "close advisor" ready to "guide" him with more of those same sentiments, however watered down.

Most people would have walked out of any church where such crazy filth was being spread as Gospel. Why didn't Obama?

Is this the kind of judgement we want in the White House?

[Abbey Marie]

I think this goes beyond poor judgment. It would take a spectacularly ignorant Christian to sit in that church for 20 years listening to a man speak such hate, and even worse, call him a mentor. Even a cursory reading of the gospels would tell him that this is not a man to be taking spiritual guidance from. I now question Obama on every level that counts.

[Little-Acorn]

Probably some of the sermons were ordinary, sounding no different from sermons at decent churches. But clearly some of them weren't. Why did Obama stay?

[Trigg]

Probably some of the sermons were ordinary, sounding no different from sermons at decent churches. But clearly some of them weren't. Why did Obama stay?

Well according to the interview shown on Fox last night he stayed because these types of sermons were not the norm. If they had been, he says, he would have stopped going.

I'm sorry, but the first time you hear someone preach that white people created AIDS to kill black people, you either stay, and show your agreement with the statement, or you leave.

[Little-Acorn]

As I said earlier, I doubt Barack Obama afrees with his pastor's sentiments. But if I were him, once I heard that sort of theing, I would have walked out in short order and not come back.

Why didn't Obama?

[Gaffer]

As I said earlier, I doubt Barack Obama afrees with his pastor's sentiments. But if I were him, once I heard that sort of theing, I would have walked out in short order and not come back.

Why didn't Obama?

Because he agrees with the sentiments.

[FSUK]

It is just naieve to say that he obama agrees with the pastor regarding the terrible remarks he made.

This is guilt by association, and its unfair. Obama went to church, he does not have to endorse every comment his pastor made or makes.

The media and republicans are aware that obama is the front runner to win the elections, therefore, they are simple degrading his image and reputation. These tactics are just cheap, and im sure obama will come out of this stonger, and will only serve to reinforce his ascendency to the top job.

[Kathianne]

It is just naieve to say that he obama agrees with the pastor regarding the terrible remarks he made.

This is guilt by association, and its unfair. Obama went to church, he does not have to endorse every comment his pastor made or makes.

The media and republicans are aware that obama is the front runner to win the elections, therefore, they are simple degrading his image and reputation. These tactics are just cheap, and im sure obama will come out of this stonger, and will only serve to reinforce his ascendency to the top job.

Glad you decided to stay. With polite out of the way, being from the UK you probably don't know much about our politicians. Being from Chicago area I know more about Barack than many, up until the MSM really started to cover him. I warned about the Church problem and Rezko before and just after he announced for seeking the Presidency. He was only known nationally for his speech at the last DNC convention.

The Chicago papers have covered the reverend and Obama before, that was a bomb waiting to go off, Obama should have known it and diffused it. That he didn't just proclaims his inexperience. What was effective in gaining votes in Chicago, meaning appealing to blacks, was going to backfire in a national campaign, where whites were supporting him in droves. Take the minister, put Barack's wife gaffe regarding just 'now' being proud of America-disaster.

BTW, there is much worse to come regarding Tony Rezko, I though Obama might make it through, not anymore.

[FSUK]

Glad you decided to stay. With polite out of the way, being from the UK you probably don't know much about our politicians. Being from Chicago area I know more about Barack than many, up until the MSM really started to cover him. I warned about the Church problem and Rezko before and just after he announced for seeking the Presidency. He was only known nationally for his speech at the last DNC convention.

The Chicago papers have covered the reverend and Obama before, that was a bomb waiting to go off, Obama should have known it and diffused it. That he didn't just proclaims his inexperience. What was effective in gaining votes in Chicago, meaning appealing to blacks, was going to backfire in a national campaign, where whites were supporting him in droves. Take the minister, put Barack's wife gaffe regarding just 'now' being proud of America-disaster.

BTW, there is much worse to come regarding Tony Rezko, I though Obama might make it through, not anymore.

Now you have worried me, i admit that im not in the US and dont have the deepest insight into obama etc. However, from what i have seen and watched and read- he has inspired many people and seems formidable.

However, i read about this rezko guy 3 weeks ago, now it seems this is becoming a liability for obama. I guess, in these elections in the US- you really need to have NO skeletons in the closet.

[Kathianne]

Now you have worried me, i admit that im not in the US and dont have the deepest insight into obama etc. However, from what i have seen and watched and read- he has inspired many people and seems formidable.

However, i read about this rezko guy 3 weeks ago, now it seems this is becoming a liability for obama. I guess, in these elections in the US- you really need to have NO skeletons in the closet.

You can't belong to a church that is 'pro-African', which of course is legal via first amendment and all, but if not 'racist' certainly 'racial' and then claim to be a 'unifier.' Sorry for all the punctuation, but that is what Barack has done.

His undoing will come if he doesn't admit to being political in the church he chose, but now he's made it even tougher by saying the reverend was like an 'uncle' to him. He claims to be 'new' and different, but he's an old time politician, without experience.

As for Rezko, my guess is it's part and politics of Illinois, especially Chicago politics. He got slimed, they all do. Other than Louisiana, you'd be hard pressed to find a more corrupt state than Illinois.

[FSUK]

You can't belong to a church that is 'pro-African', which of course is legal via first amendment and all, but if not 'racist' certainly 'racial' and then claim to be a 'unifier.' Sorry for all the punctuation, but that is what Barack has done.

His undoing will come if he doesn't admit to being political in the church he chose, but now he's made it even tougher by saying the reverend was like an 'uncle' to him. He claims to be 'new' and different, but he's an old time politician, without experience.

As for Rezko, my guess is it's part and politics of Illinois, especially Chicago politics. He got slimed, they all do. Other than Louisiana, you'd be hard pressed to find a more corrupt state than Illinois.

Yeah, i agree. Obama obviously was aware of the racist and hate speech by his pastor. The fact that he is a senator and had ambitions to run for president- he could have left that church- even if it was a politically motivated decision to leave.

But, i think he can survive- he needs to focus on the fact that he did not endorse those racist views etc etc etc...although, i admit its 20yrs too late.

[Kathianne]

Yeah, i agree. Obama obviously was aware of the racist and hate speech by his pastor. The fact that he is a senator and had ambitions to run for president- he could have left that church- even if it was a politically motivated decision to leave.

But, i think he can survive- he needs to focus on the fact that he did not endorse those racist views etc etc etc...although, i admit its 20yrs too late.

We are probably a weird political phenomena to you. He was only in the Senate 2 years, when he announced to run, very short time. Obviously he's missed more votes than normal. Thus he has little record, short of what he amassed in IL., which is also void of much substance. But he gave a hell of a speech in '04 and a lightweight record coupled with generalized hopeful statements, lack of villains, well it was playing well.

If he'd bowed out of the church even a couple years ago, all would be well. If he had a record of reaching out to all communities, not just black ones in Chicago, he might be able to sell the idea that he'd chosen the church to relate to the constituents who elected him; thus for political reasons; but served the greater community. But he doesn't have that kind of record and he didn't drop the church when he ran for the Senate. He still hasn't dropped the church and the new minister is like the old, just younger.

[FSUK]

I have read in many UK newspapers and media- that he is obviously very inexperienced etc. I do watch US media, and was a keen watcher of all the debates. He seems to be a great orator and seems to inspire. I recognise that all the candidates say things with a bit of gloss during this process- in order to appeal to voters from the onset.

Regarding the church situation- i agree with you. How could he have been so stupid? He must have known that the media and commentators would destroy him on this issue.

Does he play the race card?, i mean during his grassroots political days- was he a politician exploiting the african american electorate?

[Kathianne]

I have read in many UK newspapers and media- that he is obviously very inexperienced etc. I do watch US media, and was a keen watcher of all the debates. He seems to be a great orator and seems to inspire. I recognise that all the candidates say things with a bit of gloss during this process- in order to appeal to voters from the onset.

Regarding the church situation- i agree with you. How could he have been so stupid? He must have known that the media and commentators would destroy him on this issue.

Does he play the race card?, i mean during his grassroots political days- was he a politician exploiting the african american electorate?

He's not you 'average black' in America, obviously. I'm assuming you realize that until college his contact with America was Hawaii, which is a haven for anyone of mixed parentage. His family had enough money to pay for the best private schools then he went to Harvard.

Then he comes to Chicago, politics are different here or rather more blatant. He was looking to rise fast, in Illinois, that is Chicago. If you are black, you've got to be 'BLACK'. Racist? No, other than the church, I've heard, read, or seen nothing that would make him appear racist. I doubt he would be, with the way he was raised. His mother is white.

The first mention of race being an issue for him was brought up in the book about his father. Problem with that is that the areas that dealt with his angst of choosing to be 'black' do come off as pretty racial, and then the Chicago Tribune traced down the 'friends' he had these conversations with and they weren't about race at all. Seems he had a lot of angst over his parents leaving him, especially his father. In his high school year book, he thanks his maternal grandparents for helping him succeed, but not either of his parents. That wasn't in the book.

[Yurt]

Yeah, i agree. Obama obviously was aware of the racist and hate speech by his pastor. The fact that he is a senator and had ambitions to run for president- he could have left that church- even if it was a politically motivated decision to leave.

But, i think he can survive- he needs to focus on the fact that he did not endorse those racist views etc etc etc...although, i admit its 20yrs too late.

i honestly don't believe he thinks the beliefs are wrong. i think he is lying outright. this guy is a mole.

[FSUK]

He's not you 'average black' in America, obviously. I'm assuming you realize that until college his contact with America was Hawaii, which is a haven for anyone of mixed parentage. His family had enough money to pay for the best private schools then he went to Harvard.

Then he comes to Chicago, politics are different here or rather more blatant. He was looking to rise fast, in Illinois, that is Chicago. If you are black, you've got to be 'BLACK'. Racist? No, other than the church, I've heard, read, or seen nothing that would make him appear racist. I doubt he would be, with the way he was raised. His mother is white.

The first mention of race being an issue for him was brought up in the book about his father. Problem with that is that the areas that dealt with his angst of choosing to be 'black' do come off as pretty racial, and then the Chicago Tribune traced down the 'friends' he had these conversations with and they weren't about race at all. Seems he had a lot of angst over his parents leaving him, especially his father. In his high school year book, he thanks his maternal grandparents for helping him succeed, but not either of his parents. That wasn't in the book.

I see, thanks for giving me a better insight to obama. Its a pity, that this church issue is biting him in the ass- as i feel that he is a really intelligent and charismatic guy. He seems genuine and credible. However, i guess the next week or two will either destroy him totally or maybe his PR team can help minimise the adverse impact.

[retiredman]

i honestly don't believe he thinks the beliefs are wrong. i think he is lying outright. this guy is a mole.


the NOI Manchurian candidate? :laugh2:

do you take the tin foil hat off when you go to sleep?

[Kathianne]

I see, thanks for giving me a better insight to obama. Its a pity, that this church issue is biting him in the ass- as i feel that he is a really intelligent and charismatic guy. He seems genuine and credible. However, i guess the next week or two will either destroy him totally or maybe his PR team can help minimise the adverse impact.

It will be interesting indeed to see if the US can finally become non-pc enough, to allow him to tell the truth and handle it. Will be even more interesting to see how and if the Clinton's get up the courage to use it. My guess is Rezko will overwhelm this story, once the national media figure it out. They will, with the trial now underway.

[Yurt]

the NOI Manchurian candidate? :laugh2:

do you take the tin foil hat off when you go to sleep?

prove me wrong

[April15]

Considering how much people pay attention during the ritual of church going I can see how easy it would be to miss the ministers true opinions. I mean just look at how they act when they get out and get into their cars.

[Pale Rider]

Not many people believe that Barack Obama agrees with the racist and inflammatory statements made by his self-described minister and spiritual leader Jeremiah Wright.

I wouldn't agree with that at all. I think lots of people believe hussein was in full agreement with the preacher. The man listened to the preach and belonged to that church for twenty years. There is no way hussein or his damage control machine is ever going to convince me that he NEVER heard any of this preacher's racist rants. He did, and he agreed, but now to be exposed as in line with the preachers comments would mean sudden death to his campaign, so he has to lie his ass off now, and that's exactly what he's doing. He began his damage control a year ago, when he first started to realise what kind of damage his relationship with him could do to his campaign. He was hoping to HELL that no one would connect the dots.

No... he's the last person on earth this country needs as President.

[Kathianne]

It will be interesting indeed to see if the US can finally become non-pc enough, to allow him to tell the truth and handle it. Will be even more interesting to see how and if the Clinton's get up the courage to use it. My guess is Rezko will overwhelm this story, once the national media figure it out. They will, with the trial now underway.

I've already posted what the Tribune wrote after more than an hour sit down with Obama Friday. Seems he did the same at the Sun-Times, somehow this is not going his way:

http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/844634,obamasun031508.article#

The Rezko stuff is starting to heat up here.

[CockySOB]

Well, we can stop calling him Rev. Wright and call him Mr. Wright - the church dismissed him and is starting their own PR campaign to distance themselves from the man who was their pastor for 36 years. As such, it would seem that the story WILL have major legs over the next month or more.

And considering that Obama had a sit-down with Wright in April of 2007 discussing this very problem and they discussed Obama distancing himself from Wright, it makes one wonder why Obama took this long to actually take the step of distancing himself from Wright.

I think Obama's campaign just exposed its major Achilles' heel. And I expect Hillary will be able to garner the official Democratic nomination in spite of Obama's popularity.

[Yurt]

Well, we can stop calling him Rev. Wright and call him Mr. Wright - the church dismissed him and is starting their own PR campaign to distance themselves from the man who was their pastor for 36 years. As such, it would seem that the story WILL have major legs over the next month or more.

And considering that Obama had a sit-down with Wright in April of 2007 discussing this very problem and they discussed Obama distancing himself from Wright, it makes one wonder why Obama took this long to actually take the step of distancing himself from Wright.

I think Obama's campaign just exposed its major Achilles' heel. And I expect Hillary will be able to garner the official Democratic nomination in spite of Obama's popularity.

really? why is he saying he had no idea?

[Kathianne]

Well, we can stop calling him Rev. Wright and call him Mr. Wright - the church dismissed him and is starting their own PR campaign to distance themselves from the man who was their pastor for 36 years. As such, it would seem that the story WILL have major legs over the next month or more.

And considering that Obama had a sit-down with Wright in April of 2007 discussing this very problem and they discussed Obama distancing himself from Wright, it makes one wonder why Obama took this long to actually take the step of distancing himself from Wright.

I think Obama's campaign just exposed its major Achilles' heel. And I expect Hillary will be able to garner the official Democratic nomination in spite of Obama's popularity.

Why not Al Gore? Seems if Obama implodes, Hillary has proven weaker. I think the Democratic Convention is going to be extremely entertaining.

[CockySOB]

I wholeheartedly agree, Kathianne. Gore might make a small plash, but I think his days in politics are over. Edwards would be a viable alternate for the Democrats, but I'm not sure he would have the pulling power to really make a ticket viable.

BTW for those interested in how long ago Obama knew Wright would be a liability: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/06/us/politics/06obama.html?_r=3&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

[Kathianne]

I wholeheartedly agree, Kathianne. Gore might make a small plash, but I think his days in politics are over. Edwards would be a viable alternate for the Democrats, but I'm not sure he would have the pulling power to really make a ticket viable.

BTW for those interested in how long ago Obama knew Wright would be a liability: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/06/us/politics/06obama.html?_r=3&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

But Edwards couldn't take on Hillary or Obama, I don't think he'd fly.

[CockySOB]

But Edwards couldn't take on Hillary or Obama, I don't think he'd fly.

I was thinking of Edwards as part of the Hillary team as VP. The Democrats don't have another viable candidate for POTUS that I can see, especially at this late date.

[Kathianne]

I was thinking of Edwards as part of the Hillary team as VP. The Democrats don't have another viable candidate for POTUS that I can see, especially at this late date.

I don't think Edwards will help Clinton, not in a general election. He's run for VP once already. Those superdelegates may get their day.

[Yurt]

I wholeheartedly agree, Kathianne. Gore might make a small plash, but I think his days in politics are over. Edwards would be a viable alternate for the Democrats, but I'm not sure he would have the pulling power to really make a ticket viable.

BTW for those interested in how long ago Obama knew Wright would be a liability: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/06/us/politics/06obama.html?_r=3&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

that is a damning article, i don't see how any obama supporter can continue supporting him. the article clearly shows he is a liar.

[retiredman]

that is a damning article, i don't see how any obama supporter can continue supporting him. the article clearly shows he is a liar.

what lie?

[Yurt]

what lie?

he said he did not know his pastor of 20 years believed these things

where you been. obviously avoiding the multiple threads on this topic, LOOOOL. i did find a picture of you and posted in the native land thread :D

[retiredman]

he said he did not know his pastor of 20 years believed these things

where you been. obviously avoiding the multiple threads on this topic, LOOOOL. i did find a picture of you and posted in the native land thread :D
believed what things?

[Yurt]

believed what things?

go the election forum, there are a half dozen threads .....

[retiredman]

go the election forum, there are a half dozen threads .....

if you are going to say that "the article clearly shows he is a liar", you ought to be able to show where that is the case.

[Yurt]

if you are going to say that "the article clearly shows he is a liar", you ought to be able to show where that is the case.

the article clearly shows he knew over a year ago what kind of pastor he had, his campaign even had problems with him. dude, you need to read the threads about your church and its most powerful pastor (ex---right) in the election forum. until then, you are missing the big picture, probably have your head buried in the sand.....

obama claims he had no idea that pastor espoused such views, else he would not have attended that church. see you in the election forum if you dare....

[Little-Acorn]

Regarding the church situation- i agree with you. How could he have been so stupid? He must have known that the media and commentators would destroy him on this issue.

I still believe Obama does not agree with the pastor's flaming racism and anti-Americanism. So your remarks - and most others' - still beg the question. If a decent American would have walked out of a church where such filth is being freely thrown around by the pastor... why didn't Obama?

[Yurt]

I still believe Obama does not agree with the pastor's flaming racism and anti-Americanism. So your remarks - and most others' - still beg the question. If a decent American would have walked out of a church where such filth is being freely thrown around by the pastor... why didn't Obama?

what makes you think he doesn't believe that? he had a very close relationship with that pastor for 20 years.

[Kathianne]

I still believe Obama does not agree with the pastor's flaming racism and anti-Americanism. So your remarks - and most others' - still beg the question. If a decent American would have walked out of a church where such filth is being freely thrown around by the pastor... why didn't Obama?

He's not a decent person? (I'm answering as if a riddle).

[Kathianne]

that is a damning article, i don't see how any obama supporter can continue supporting him. the article clearly shows he is a liar.

It certainly is and lays lie to Obama didn't know:


...Followers were also drawn simply by Mr. Wright’s appeal. Trinity has 8,500 members today, making it the largest American congregation in the United Church of Christ, a mostly white denomination known for the independence of its congregations and its willingness to experiment with traditional Protestant theology.

Mr. Wright preached black liberation theology, which interprets the Bible as the story of the struggles of black people, who by virtue of their oppression are better able to understand Scripture than those who have suffered less. That message can sound different to white audiences, said Dwight Hopkins, a professor at University of Chicago Divinity School and a Trinity member. “Some white people hear it as racism in reverse,” Dr. Hopkins said, while blacks hear, “Yes, we are somebody, we’re also made in God’s image.”...

Once again, it's not necessarily racist, but certainly is racial in division.

...

[stephanie]

Obambam is an empty suit who fancies himself another JFK or Mlk..

Really listen to his speeches...
they say absolutely........Nothing. but that is the game..you can fool a lot of people who have no direction in their lives, who are looking for someone to come along and SAVE THEM...

that doesn't bode well for progressives...
their following an empty suit..

[stephanie]

Just look at the last four President candidates that the liberals, Democrats have put up on the pedestal..

Jon Kerry.......a nobody from Mass..who saluted us all...
but before that, he went in front of Congress and accused his fellow service members of being, manic killers, baby rapers, etc, etc....

Al Bore...who did nada as a vice President to the Billy boy of embarrassments of the United States..

the Shrill..who even the Democrats can't stand and has done nothing of importance...

And the little half black and half white boy....the Messiah...the empty suit...who has done even less than all of the above...

:laugh2:

[Kathianne]

I was thinking of Edwards as part of the Hillary team as VP. The Democrats don't have another viable candidate for POTUS that I can see, especially at this late date.

Ah the convention, I'm not the only one relishing the thought:

http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=11456


Dems 2008: Superdelegates in a quagmire [Karl]

It is not schadenfreude, but sheer amusement at political cowardice, which causes me to recommend Sunday’s New York Times survey of Democratic superdelegates, who are growing increasingly nervous about the risks of a prolonged fight between Senators Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama:


Over all, the interviews with these influential Democrats presents a portrait of a particularly exclusive political community in flux, looking for an exit strategy and hoping they will be relieved of making an excruciating decision that could lose them friends and supporters at home.

***

The delegates said they hoped to avoid being portrayed as party elites overturning the will of Democratic voters. They spoke of having some power broker — the names mentioned included Howard Dean, the chairman of the Democratic National Committee; former Vice President Al Gore; and Speaker Nancy Pelosi — step in to forge a deal.

Although it is possible that Obama could narrowly secure the nomination by June 3 (including already “committed” superdelegates), it is also quite possible that neither candidate will have enough pledged delegates to secure the nomination, not to mention possible that Clinton could — with strong showings in remaining contests like Pennsylvania — lead in the popular vote. But rather than be portrayed as elites overturning the will of the voters, many superdelegates would prefer to have that will overturned by an even more elite group, rather than lose friends or votes in their states or districts.