View Full Version : Report: Anti-War Judge Rejects Foster Teen's Bid to Join Marines
WHAT THE HELL?!?!?
A California judge rejected a foster teen's request for early enlistment with the Marine Corps — and a $10,000 signing bonus — reportedly on the grounds that the judge didn't approve of the Iraq war.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,336008,00.html
Kathianne
03-07-2008, 06:12 PM
He'll do fine, the judge though is another issue:
http://www.dailynews.com/breakingnews/ci_8482917?source=email
...After Sage submitted a winning entry to the lawmaker's Write a Bill Challenge, Assemblyman Cameron Smyth introduced legislation last month that would allow foster teens to enlist in the service without express permission from a judge.
Instead, AB2238 would allow foster children 17 or older to sign up with the consent of a foster parent or social worker.
"Here is one impressive young man who somehow made it through the challenge of the foster system, had a clear sense of a career path and was denied that opportunity by a judge basically because of her personal bias," said Smyth, R-Santa Clarita, who will honor Sage today at a Royal High assembly.
"I find that to be a horrific abuse of her power."
It was Oct. 12 when Medrano, in crisp dress blues, appeared with Sage before the commissioner to petition for his early enlistment.
The USMC Delayed Entry Program, like those in other services, allows high school seniors to enlist in the service up to a year before starting boot camp.
Recruiters encourage students to hone their study skills, learn to eat right and become fit enough to don a uniform.
By "DEPing in," students can enlist at 17, get their high school diploma, then lock in a military job such as Force Recon - or scout snipers. They also qualify for a signing bonus.
"We just gave out the last one for recon today to another kid for $10,000," USMC Master Sgt. Edgar Carpenter of the Marine Recruiting Office in Simi Valley said Wednesday.
"The Delayed Entry Program supports everything a parent would try to do: We make them stay out of trouble; get them in physical condition; and get them indoctrinated into the Marine Corps culture."
Only Mackel - and it appears a court bailiff as well - objected to the program, despite pleas from Sage and Medrano.
"I tried. I said, `Please.' I begged. He tried, he said, `Please' and begged," Sage said. "But she refused."
Mackel said she denied delayed enlistment to an eager Navy recruit as well, Medrano said.
She expressed concern that recruiters treat recruits "like another warm body," he said. "She said, `All you care about is your numbers."'
At this point, the 10-year Marine said the court bailiff raised his hand and addressed the young Sage.
"My son's in the Army," he said. "He did the Delayed Entry Program. They don't care about you. They're just there for the numbers.
"I said, `No, I'm not them," Medrano said. "I care about Shawn (and) about every single person I put into the Marine Corps. I follow them. I take care of my kids. I treat them like my Marines.
"It just felt like, wow. I even told Shawn, I said, `Dude, it feels like we've been burned at the stake at the Salem witch trial.' She just had some kind of animosity toward military personnel."
Early this year, Berkeley city officials drew national fire for calling Marine Corps recruiters "uninvited and unwelcome intruders" while granting free parking for anti-war protesters. Lawmakers in Sacramento and Washington pushed bills to deny millions in funds to city coffers.
Sage, who lives in Simi Valley but is originally from Florida, was abandoned by both parents when he was 2 and now lives in a foster home with his brother.
He had wanted to join the military ever since he'd met a service rep at school at age 7 - first the Air Force, then the Navy, finally the Marines.
His foster parents, as well as his social worker, supported his decision to enlist early. Despite being denied, he still shows up for USMC physical training.
"Did they ever kick my butt," he said proudly. "They still do."
When he graduates and turns 18 in June, it'll be all Semper Fi, bonus or no signing bonus, whether he's allowed early deployment or not.
As winner of Smyth's "there oughta be a law" contest, he will be flown to Sacramento to testify before the Assembly.
"I didn't do it for the signing bonus, because I'm a motivated kid," he said. "I am hoping to join the military before I graduate. I want to serve my country."
hjmick
03-07-2008, 06:18 PM
I want to know what the fuck the Los Angeles Superior Court is doing with this case. Simi Valley not only has it's own courts, it's in Ventura county to boot.
DragonStryk72
03-07-2008, 06:35 PM
This judge so be impeached of their position. That they would bar someone from joining the service, as is their will and right, just cause they don't like the current war is an absolute abuse of power.
actsnoblemartin
03-07-2008, 06:54 PM
323-526-6402
323-526-6402
Yeah Archie Bunker, i'll get right on that lol.
Pull yer head out, just because you disagree with someone don't mean they are a commie..............you fucking pinko.
Alot of fucking people disagree with the Iraq War, about 70 percent of America to be exact and they include entities such as Starbucks and Target. In the last week i've enjoyed a few delicious white chocolate mochas and purchased some toiletries.
Kathianne
03-07-2008, 08:01 PM
Yeah Archie Bunker, i'll get right on that lol.
Pull yer head out, just because you disagree with someone don't mean they are a commie..............you fucking pinko.
Alot of fucking people disagree with the Iraq War, about 70 percent of America to be exact and they include entities such as Starbucks and Target. In the last week i've enjoyed a few delicious white chocolate mochas and purchased some toiletries.
So, you think her ruling was correct, OCA?
So, you think her ruling was correct, OCA?
On the basis of him being underage...yes. Whether he's a foster kid or not has zero bearing on the case, its only a liberal ploy meant to pull at the heartstrings being now used by conservatives in this case.
I have never bought into the notion that at 18 you are old enough to kill and vote but not old enough to have a beer, I believe the age limit for entry into military service should be raised.
Kathianne
03-07-2008, 08:18 PM
On the basis of him being underage...yes. Whether he's a foster kid or not has zero bearing on the case, its only a liberal ploy meant to pull at the heartstrings being now used by conservatives in this case.
I have never bought into the notion that at 18 you are old enough to kill and vote but not old enough to have a beer, I believe the age limit for entry into military service should be raised.
Seems to me that a senior in high school should be able to decide if they are applying for college, military, or job market. All voluntary.
DragonStryk72
03-07-2008, 08:25 PM
On the basis of him being underage...yes. Whether he's a foster kid or not has zero bearing on the case, its only a liberal ploy meant to pull at the heartstrings being now used by conservatives in this case.
I have never bought into the notion that at 18 you are old enough to kill and vote but not old enough to have a beer, I believe the age limit for entry into military service should be raised.
I believe just the opposite, that the drinking age should be diminished. It is nothing more than an excuse for teens to drink irresponsibly. Our fear of the "demon alcohol" leads to alcohol being put onto a pedestal, and thus, overindulgence begins.
It was not based upon his age, the Judge said, in court, it was on their opinion of the war in Iraq. The military has a Delayed Entry Program, which is generally for people still in high school, who want to sign in, but have a ways to go. The thing about the DEP is that you can step back from at any time, up until you are actually sworn into the military. Up until then, you can just walk, no harm no foul.
It's interesting how long we seem to be willing to pass off having to make real decisions as an adult. it seems as though at 17, you are not old enough, but magically, at 18 or 21, you are ready. We pass the 21 as age of majority law, and guess what, 30-40 years down the road, we'll be bumping it again, this time til 24. Punish the people who commit the abuse, not everyone who ever possible, in some circumstance, might commit an abuse.
It is interesting to note that in countries without a drinking age, the occurrence of alcoholism is much lower than it is here, where we have all these "protections" against it. How much longer do you think we can put off teaching them to protect themselves?
I believe just the opposite, that the drinking age should be diminished. It is nothing more than an excuse for teens to drink irresponsibly. Our fear of the "demon alcohol" leads to alcohol being put onto a pedestal, and thus, overindulgence begins.
It was not based upon his age, the Judge said, in court, it was on their opinion of the war in Iraq. The military has a Delayed Entry Program, which is generally for people still in high school, who want to sign in, but have a ways to go. The thing about the DEP is that you can step back from at any time, up until you are actually sworn into the military. Up until then, you can just walk, no harm no foul.
It's interesting how long we seem to be willing to pass off having to make real decisions as an adult. it seems as though at 17, you are not old enough, but magically, at 18 or 21, you are ready. We pass the 21 as age of majority law, and guess what, 30-40 years down the road, we'll be bumping it again, this time til 24. Punish the people who commit the abuse, not everyone who ever possible, in some circumstance, might commit an abuse.
It is interesting to note that in countries without a drinking age, the occurrence of alcoholism is much lower than it is here, where we have all these "protections" against it. How much longer do you think we can put off teaching them to protect themselves?
Basically I agree with you, in America again we are old enough at 18 to kill but not have a beer, does that make sense? Seems to me that the decision to squeeze the trigger would profit from 3 more years of wisdom than the decision on whether to buy a bottle of cab or a fifth of patron. So I say since we aren't going to ever lower the drinking age then to make it more logical raise the military entry age.
Anyway really what I objected too in this case was the use of his foster status to make him seem more of an achiever, it should of had no bearing on the case. And i'm really sick of the constant bitching about every friggin court case that comes down the barrel from the likes of Bill O'Reilly etc. etc., its like the NFL, some calls go for ya and some go against ya, you just accept them and move on. In the case of queer marriage we've been getting alot of calls the last few years, in other cases we haven't been getting the, its life.
BTW in Greece, which is all I have direct knowledge of, there isn't an official drinking age and you rarely see street drunks or hell even publicly wasted people out partying even though everybody is drinking all the time. In America its an all too common occurence.
DragonStryk72
03-07-2008, 08:47 PM
Basically I agree with you, in America again we are old enough at 18 to kill but not have a beer, does that make sense? Seems to me that the decision to squeeze the trigger would profit from 3 more years of wisdom than the decision on whether to buy a bottle of cab or a fifth of patron. So I say since we aren't going to ever lower the drinking age then to make it more logical raise the military entry age.
Anyway really what I objected too in this case was the use of his foster status to make him seem more of an achiever, it should of had no bearing on the case. And i'm really sick of the constant bitching about every friggin court case that comes down the barrel from the likes of Bill O'Reilly etc. etc., its like the NFL, some calls go for ya and some go against ya, you just accept them and move on. In the case of queer marriage we've been getting alot of calls the last few years, in other cases we haven't been getting the, its life.
BTW in Greece, which is all I have direct knowledge of, there isn't an official drinking age and you rarely see street drunks or hell even publicly wasted people out partying even though everybody is drinking all the time. In America its an all too common occurence.
But the course that you are suggesting OCA, is a large part of the problem. We put off the path to adulthood for far too long already. You have students who do 4 years of ROTC for just the purpose of going into the military after high school. Raising the age of "maturity" does not create more mature soldiers, it simply extends adolesence for another 3 years.
But the course that you are suggesting OCA, is a large part of the problem. We put off the path to adulthood for far too long already. You have students who do 4 years of ROTC for just the purpose of going into the military after high school. Raising the age of "maturity" does not create more mature soldiers, it simply extends adolesence for another 3 years.
Well you ain't gonna probably like this but I feel that Americans, pick your age group, aren't as mature as others in other countries and I refer mostly to Europe, the reason for that is varied, from education to culture and everything in between
manu1959
03-07-2008, 09:10 PM
Well you ain't gonna probably like this but I feel that Americans, pick your age group, aren't as mature as others in other countries and I refer mostly to Europe, the reason for that is varied, from education to culture and everything in between
having gone to both "high" school and university in both america and europe i would say you are not correct....based on my experience....
Kathianne
03-07-2008, 09:12 PM
Well you ain't gonna probably like this but I feel that Americans, pick your age group, aren't as mature as others in other countries and I refer mostly to Europe, the reason for that is varied, from education to culture and everything in between
Because so many are like the judge and you, saying those that are acting mature are 'not ready'. She way overstepped and it's wrong that foster kids cannot make an informed position like those with responsible parents. The judge's personal beliefs shouldn't be a consideration.
Because so many are like the judge and you, saying those that are acting mature are 'not ready'. She way overstepped and it's wrong that foster kids cannot make an informed position like those with responsible parents. The judge's personal beliefs shouldn't be a consideration.
Whats acting mature? If the kid had said he wanted to join Code Pink and protest daily on Capitol Hill would you say he was mature then? No, of course you wouldn't.
DragonStryk72
03-07-2008, 09:16 PM
Well you ain't gonna probably like this but I feel that Americans, pick your age group, aren't as mature as others in other countries and I refer mostly to Europe, the reason for that is varied, from education to culture and everything in between
so is it genetic, or a learned behavior? Well, we don't have an ethnicity that any of the Europeans doesn't have, so that rules out genetics. It is a matter of how we treat alcohol vs how they do. We call it a "gateway", we fear it, and in such, provide it power.
Maturity needs to be taught by parents, because the government in no way can do so, because the most they can do is slap up more arbitrary rulings that have the singular effect of making the problem worse. We need to stop espousing for the government or the laws be added to, and instead return to a point where we take that responsibility for ourselves.
having gone to both "high" school and university in both america and europe i would say you are not correct....based on my experience....
59 this isn't even argueable, most European kids of high school and university age can speak 3 languages fluently and cite history and literature like it was tthe back of their hand.........although I should probably exclude the U.K. and the Irish from that, not saying they are bad people but they've always been a step behind the continent. Most American kids can't find Spokane on a map and think soup du jour is tomato based lol, but they can tell you where to get the latest 50 cent ringtones lol.
so is it genetic, or a learned behavior? Well, we don't have an ethnicity that any of the Europeans doesn't have, so that rules out genetics. It is a matter of how we treat alcohol vs how they do. We call it a "gateway", we fear it, and in such, provide it power.
Maturity needs to be taught by parents, because the government in no way can do so, because the most they can do is slap up more arbitrary rulings that have the singular effect of making the problem worse. We need to stop espousing for the government or the laws be added to, and instead return to a point where we take that responsibility for ourselves.
In theory I agree with you although I think its too late in America. Honestly with what i've witnessed in America the last 20 years and in comparing that to other great powers throughout history i.e. Rome etc. etc. that have crumbled, America's days are numbered. We've simply let things run culturally and morally amok for so long that the ship is unable to make it back to port. Too many generations have passed now that were maturely inferior and selfish(the last great generation being the WWII generation and the shittiest being the late 60's generation) that i'm afraid that the "bad habits" are too embedded.
Kathianne
03-07-2008, 09:34 PM
Whats acting mature? If the kid had said he wanted to join Code Pink and protest daily on Capitol Hill would you say he was mature then? No, of course you wouldn't.
Do you think that would have been forbidden? Hardly. Bad example.
Kathianne
03-07-2008, 09:35 PM
59 this isn't even argueable, most European kids of high school and university age can speak 3 languages fluently and cite history and literature like it was tthe back of their hand.........although I should probably exclude the U.K. and the Irish from that, not saying they are bad people but they've always been a step behind the continent. Most American kids can't find Spokane on a map and think soup du jour is tomato based lol, but they can tell you where to get the latest 50 cent ringtones lol.
So you don't return to Greece why? Sounds like you should.
So you don't return to Greece why? Sounds like you should.
Plans already in the works for that but first I need to make enough greenbacks to never work again once i'm there. Now if this country could keep it together long enough to keep the dollar from going further into the toilet it currently finds itself in then i'll be a happy man.
You've been on these boards long enough to know my official position on this: As far as economic opportunities go America is second to none, always has been and I used to feel that way about educational opportunities too but lately I have my doubts. Now lifestyle wise America sucks, enough said.
Do you think that would have been forbidden? Hardly. Bad example.
Bad example? So you have a problem with what the judge forbade not really with the reason given is what i'm gathering.
Kathianne
03-07-2008, 09:56 PM
Plans already in the works for that but first I need to make enough greenbacks to never work again once i'm there. Now if this country could keep it together long enough to keep the dollar from going further into the toilet it currently finds itself in then i'll be a happy man.
You've been on these boards long enough to know my official position on this: As far as economic opportunities go America is second to none, always has been and I used to feel that way about educational opportunities too but lately I have my doubts. Now lifestyle wise America sucks, enough said.
Seems to me if you are a citizen of the US you should renounce today and just advocate for Greece. Really, you aren't connected.
Seems to me if you are a citizen of the US you should renounce today and just advocate for Greece. Really, you aren't connected.
Tough shit, I love the dollar and easy American women!:laugh2:
Connected lol! It seems to me that i'm more connected than you are, well at least in that i'm willing to call a spade a spade and see 2008 America for what it is, its falling apart.
So anyway lol if i'm so disconnected tell me what i'm missing, defend this live to work lifestyle we got going on over here, defend Roe v Wade and the resulting infanticide officially endorsed by the government, defend the glorification of thugs in America, defend a high divorce rate, defend the highest murder rate of the industrialized nations etc. etc........come on defend it.
Or wait, maybe you are one of the USA #1 in everything yelling types while you suck down your 8th Bud of the day!
Come on Kath, I know you are more analytical than you are coming off as.
DragonStryk72
03-07-2008, 10:10 PM
In theory I agree with you although I think its too late in America. Honestly with what i've witnessed in America the last 20 years and in comparing that to other great powers throughout history i.e. Rome etc. etc. that have crumbled, America's days are numbered. We've simply let things run culturally and morally amok for so long that the ship is unable to make it back to port. Too many generations have passed now that were maturely inferior and selfish(the last great generation being the WWII generation and the shittiest being the late 60's generation) that i'm afraid that the "bad habits" are too embedded.
So then, in essence, you are part of the problem, and not of the solution. Instead of attempting to enact change, you have opted for bailing out, and going to ground in Greece. Perhaps, if things are to change, then those who see the flaws need to stand forward and start making the changes needed to correct them.
So then, in essence, you are part of the problem, and not of the solution. Instead of attempting to enact change, you have opted for bailing out, and going to ground in Greece. Perhaps, if things are to change, then those who see the flaws need to stand forward and start making the changes needed to correct them.
Dragon let me clue you in, there will be no change, 1. because of the general apathetic nature of the majority of Americans nowadays and 2. because, at least as far as change being affected through government is concerned, it will not happen because there isn't a dimes worth of policy difference between the two parties and 3rd parties(which is where real change lies) have zero chance of getting elected.
I don't consider myself a part of the problem, I consider myself a realist, I realize that most everyone from your average Joe to your elected official is out for themself here and i'm just keeping up with traffic.
Mr. P
03-07-2008, 10:28 PM
Well....The State is the legal guardian of foster kids, the judge is the rep. the surrogate parent. so...I can't condemn this Judge for the decision. Regardless of what the link says the reasons were.
Kathianne
03-07-2008, 10:51 PM
Well....The State is the legal guardian of foster kids, the judge is the rep. the surrogate parent. so...I can't condemn this Judge for the decision. Regardless of what the link says the reasons were.
I can. Good judge, like parents will hear their child, regardless of their own opinions. Just wrong.
Dilloduck
03-08-2008, 08:19 AM
I can. Good judge, like parents will hear their child, regardless of their own opinions. Just wrong.
Hearing you child doesn't mean caving in to everything they want to do. This kid is going to be told "no" a million times as he matures. If he really is so mature he will know how to handle it and adjust accordingly without wasting his time whining.
Kathianne
03-08-2008, 10:05 AM
Hearing you child doesn't mean caving in to everything they want to do. This kid is going to be told "no" a million times as he matures. If he really is so mature he will know how to handle it and adjust accordingly without wasting his time whining.
By 17 if one has raised the child up correctly, they should be in the position of making such a decision.
By 17 if one has raised the child up correctly, they should be in the position of making such a decision.
No. No matter the quality of raising 17 is still 17 and at 17 kids don't know their ass from a hole in the ground. Think about it, most of us would say that we really didn't hit full, eyes wide maturity until at least the late 20's
manu1959
03-08-2008, 12:47 PM
No. No matter the quality of raising 17 is still 17 and at 17 kids don't know their ass from a hole in the ground. Think about it, most of us would say that we really didn't hit full, eyes wide maturity until at least the late 20's
tell that to the WWII vets that lied to get in at 17.....
Kathianne
03-08-2008, 01:00 PM
tell that to the WWII vets that lied to get in at 17.....
One of the things I was thinking of. At 17 one certainly will make mistakes that one wouldn't make in their late 20's, but I sure made some doozy of mistakes in my late 20's, that I'd never make now.:laugh2:
tell that to the WWII vets that lied to get in at 17.....
Ok, bring em on. Just because you can pull a trigger don't make you a man.
manu1959
03-08-2008, 01:09 PM
Ok, bring em on. Just because you can pull a trigger don't make you a man.
your argument was they were not ready or mature......now you are changing the point of your argument and using a subjective word, "man" .....seems you are abondoning your original argument..... could it be the ground you claimed is not as firm as you thought.....
your argument was they were not ready or mature......now you are changing the point of your argument and using a subjective word, "man" .....seems you are abondoning your original argument..... could it be the ground you claimed is not as firm as you thought.....
No, i'm on terra firma. At 17, if you can squeeze a trigger and take orders it does not neccessarily mean you are mature.
This judge saw the kid, interviewed the kid and made her decision...end of story.
Kathianne
03-08-2008, 06:19 PM
No, i'm on terra firma. At 17, if you can squeeze a trigger and take orders it does not neccessarily mean you are mature.
This judge saw the kid, interviewed the kid and made her decision...end of story.
Problem was, she wasn't thinking of what was best for the child, rather her own opinion on the war. Sort of like parents forcing a child into college, when that's not what they want to do.
Mr. P
03-08-2008, 06:53 PM
Problem was, she wasn't thinking of what was best for the child, rather her own opinion on the war. Sort of like parents forcing a child into college, when that's not what they want to do.
How about this angle instead...Politic fallout.
The State/Court is the surrogate parent, if she said ok and something happened to the kid the outrage at the State would be heard all the way to the right coast.
It's no big deal for me..in a yr the kid can legally do whatever he pleases..except drink.
Problem was, she wasn't thinking of what was best for the child, rather her own opinion on the war. Sort of like parents forcing a child into college, when that's not what they want to do.
Well no problem, he's 17, he waits 1 more year, no big deal.
Kathianne
03-08-2008, 09:24 PM
Well no problem, he's 17, he waits 1 more year, no big deal.
Great restatement of Mr. P's post. :clap:
Great restatement of Mr. P's post. :clap:
Didn't see his post before I posted mine but hey, great minds think alike. Don't get pissy just because we show you how ridiculous it is to get knickers in a twist over this kid.
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