CA rejects right to homeschool

[Gadget (fmr Marine)]

This is disturbing to me.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/03/07/MNJDVF0F1.DTL


"California courts have held that ... parents do not have a constitutional right to homeschool their children," Justice H. Walter Croskey said in the 3-0 ruling issued on Feb. 28. "Parents have a legal duty to see to their children's schooling under the provisions of these laws."

Parents can be criminally prosecuted for failing to comply, Croskey said.

"A primary purpose of the educational system is to train school children in good citizenship, patriotism and loyalty to the state and the nation as a means of protecting the public welfare," the judge wrote, quoting from a 1961 case on a similar issue.

I wonder if the Nazi's had a similar slogan.....or perhaps a madrasa......

I have mistakenly thought that the public school system was to educate and prepare youngsters for life as adults.....

[Gaffer]

Only a liberal judge would think that loyalty to the state is more important than the education of the child.

[remie]

Yeah, sounds like the teachers union is happy though. Wouldnt want to piss them off. Wow....just wow.

[Mr. P]

Holy Cow! I just said a week ago public education has become no more than government indoctrination and now a JUDGE provides the evidence.

[Gadget (fmr Marine)]

Forget secession....how do we boot CA from the US, formally....we should revoke their statehood.....

[BoogyMan]

Forget secession....how do we boot CA from the US, formally....we should revoke their statehood.....

Excellent idea Gadget!

[manu1959]

Forget secession....how do we boot CA from the US, formally....we should revoke their statehood.....

works for me....at least my federal taxes will stay in california....

[Immanuel]

Forget secession....how do we boot CA from the US, formally....we should revoke their statehood.....

Excuse me... but that is my native state and although, I may not agree with its politics or currently live there, I'll be darned if I will allow such a beautiful state to be booted from the union. :)

Heck just because we don't agree, doesn't mean we can't get along. Besides some day the pendulum will swing and California will be the conservative red state and Texas will be Blue as liberal can be. Should we boot Texas out then?

Okay... California Red, Texas Blue... :laugh2: that's stretching it just a bit... but heck, I'm not giving up my citizenship just because the red staters don't like California.

Immie

[Gadget (fmr Marine)]

Excuse me... but that is my native state and although, I may not agree with its politics or currently live there, I'll be darned if I will allow such a beautiful state to be booted from the union. :)

Heck just because we don't agree, doesn't mean we can't get along. Besides some day the pendulum will swing and California will be the conservative red state and Texas will be Blue as liberal can be. Should we boot Texas out then?

Okay... California Red, Texas Blue... :laugh2: that's stretching it just a bit... but heck, I'm not giving up my citizenship just because the red staters don't like California.

Immie

I have spent a great amount of time in CA, and would not think it too much of an inconvenience to have to show my US Passport to go visit there....and I will....I just think that they are getting out of touch with reality.

To bring this back on topic (just a bit)....don't you think that using laws that were passed in the 50's and 60's with regard to homeschooling is a bit assinine? Sure....homeschooling couldn't be done then, as most stay at home mom's did not have advanced education (for the most part). It was a different time, then.

Now, there is a greater chance of the stay at home parent to have a degree of some sort, and actually instill values that mean something, rather than the state run institutions that think allegiance to the state, patriotism and whatever other socialist BS was quoted from above....is the most important aspect of a child's education....

F 'em.....I will get my passport ready....and NY is next, I am sure!

[JohnDoe]

I have spent a great amount of time in CA, and would not think it too much of an inconvenience to have to show my US Passport to go visit there....and I will....I just think that they are getting out of touch with reality.

To bring this back on topic (just a bit)....don't you think that using laws that were passed in the 50's and 60's with regard to homeschooling is a bit assinine? Sure....homeschooling couldn't be done then, as most stay at home mom's did not have advanced education (for the most part). It was a different time, then.

Now, there is a greater chance of the stay at home parent to have a degree of some sort, and actually instill values that mean something, rather than the state run institutions that think allegiance to the state, patriotism and whatever other socialist BS was quoted from above....is the most important aspect of a child's education....

F 'em.....I will get my passport ready....and NY is next, I am sure!

Using your example Gadget, I think it would be more beneficial for parents like the mom that is homeschooling her kid in your example, to be involved in the Public School system with the same effort that she was giving to her own child when schooled at home, and the country, including her children, will be much better off..... in the long run.

Instead of running away from a faulty system, attacking it....head first, with involvement.

My ownly nieces are home schooled, by two college grad parents, mostly by their mother, but the last few years the mother went back to Nursing and the Father lost his job so he is now the home school teacher.... and they are absolutely doing great! Not only in their academic abilities but also in their social lives....they participate in many groups that involve other children and really have alot of other kids as friends....

HOWEVER, I truely believe that if all the parents that had the time to home school actually got involved in the education system for the Public, our school systems and all of us, would be better off in the long run.

ALSO, this does not mean that I would outlaw homeschooling, I view this as a choice we all should have to make.

jd

[Gadget (fmr Marine)]

Using your example Gadget, I think it would be more beneficial for parents like the mom that is homeschooling her kid in your example, to be involved in the Public School system with the same effort that she was giving to her own child when schooled at home, and the country, including her children, will be much better off..... in the long run.

Instead of running away from a faulty system, attacking it....head first, with involvement.

My ownly nieces are home schooled, by two college grad parents, mostly by their mother, but the last few years the mother went back to Nursing and the Father lost his job so he is now the home school teacher.... and they are absolutely doing great! Not only in their academic abilities but also in their social lives....they participate in many groups that involve other children and really have alot of other kids as friends....

HOWEVER, I truely believe that if all the parents that had the time to home school actually got involved in the education system for the Public, our school systems and all of us, would be better off in the long run.

ALSO, this does not mean that I would outlaw homeschooling, I view this as a choice we all should have to make.

jd

Have you encourage the parents of your nieces to get involved with the public education system, or is this an instance of do what I say, but not what is REAL.....

I don't disagree, but if you are saying parents should get involved, and you are not actively encouraging it, then it is a moot point.....

[Gaffer]

Home schooling now days is done mostly on computers. The parents just need to be involved in the sense they make sure the kid is spending the time and doing the work necessary. The school here even supplies the computer. Home schooled kids can get involved in sports and after school programs the same as others do. The main difference is the child can go at their own pace. Smart ones move ahead faster while slow ones move at their own pace.

[Mr. P]

Using your example Gadget, I think it would be more beneficial for parents like the mom that is homeschooling her kid in your example, to be involved in the Public School system with the same effort that she was giving to her own child when schooled at home, and the country, including her children, will be much better off..... in the long run.

Instead of running away from a faulty system, attacking it....head first, with involvement.

My ownly nieces are home schooled, by two college grad parents, mostly by their mother, but the last few years the mother went back to Nursing and the Father lost his job so he is now the home school teacher.... and they are absolutely doing great! Not only in their academic abilities but also in their social lives....they participate in many groups that involve other children and really have alot of other kids as friends....

HOWEVER, I truely believe that if all the parents that had the time to home school actually got involved in the education system for the Public, our school systems and all of us, would be better off in the long run.

ALSO, this does not mean that I would outlaw homeschooling, I view this as a choice we all should have to make.

jd

Sounds good, JD, and it works until the administration makes bone-head decisions.

It happened here when my daughter was in school. We had an excellent system. Most schools had near 100% parent PTA/PTO involvement. Then the school board decided they needed to rezone for "socio economic diversity".
The public were outraged! We presented facts, study after study that showed this failed everywhere it had been tried, but it was done anyway.

All but one board member was voted out at the next election. Problem was the damage had already been done. The rezoning failed miserably, as expected, it did nothing but import problems into good schools. One after another people left the system and went private or to a system that they could effectively participate in. This system went to hell and remains sub-standard now more than 12 years later.

[Mr. P]

Home schooling now days is done mostly on computers. The parents just need to be involved in the sense they make sure the kid is spending the time and doing the work necessary. The school here even supplies the computer. Home schooled kids can get involved in sports and after school programs the same as others do. The main difference is the child can go at their own pace. Smart ones move ahead faster while slow ones move at their own pace.

And there are structured programs these days..Home schooled kids kick-ass in National competitions too!

[JohnDoe]

Have you encourage the parents of your nieces to get involved with the public education system, or is this an instance of do what I say, but not what is REAL.....

I don't disagree, but if you are saying parents should get involved, and you are not actively encouraging it, then it is a moot point.....Yes, I have spoken to my brother and sister in law many. many times on this...

and i was not saying for these parents to home school AND get involved in the public school system, but to forfeit the home schooling time and spending that time being involved with the school system with their own children in the school system.

But, as Mr. P pointed out after my OPINION and THOUGHTS :laugh2: on this that he lived in an area where the parents were involved but the admin still got its way....

My husband and I are unable to have children, what I have at stake is an educated community that could benefit all of us Americans with a result of less crime from it.

the last 9 years we paid nearing $4k a year in property taxes torwards the education of the kids of others, and the last year and all years forward with increases expected, $2k a year towards the education of others where we live now....in property taxes, there are no other amenities in my rural town....we do have a part time Constable (like a sheriff), that hauls gravel from the pits in the area for his full time job and a one manned post office... :) but that is federal i believe? Volunteer fire dept...no town water, no town sewar....

So, even though I may have no children in the school system, there is alot at stake for us, both financially in the taxes we pay and in bringing good paying jobs to the community, and for our better welfare with less crime coming with an educated/ working... community.

jd

[Immanuel]

I have spent a great amount of time in CA, and would not think it too much of an inconvenience to have to show my US Passport to go visit there....and I will....I just think that they are getting out of touch with reality.

To bring this back on topic (just a bit)....don't you think that using laws that were passed in the 50's and 60's with regard to homeschooling is a bit assinine? Sure....homeschooling couldn't be done then, as most stay at home mom's did not have advanced education (for the most part). It was a different time, then.

Now, there is a greater chance of the stay at home parent to have a degree of some sort, and actually instill values that mean something, rather than the state run institutions that think allegiance to the state, patriotism and whatever other socialist BS was quoted from above....is the most important aspect of a child's education....

F 'em.....I will get my passport ready....and NY is next, I am sure!

Like I said, I don't agree with the ruling, but Ca is my native state. I am a Citizen of the United States of America and I refuse to give up my natural rights as a Citizen of the United States of America under the Constitution of the U.S. or my rights as a native of California. So, what would happen to me and people like me if you decided to boot California out of the Union? Would I have to give up my citizenship in one of these nations? And what if it were possible to "boot" a state from the union? What would keep the blue states from banding together and booting say Florida? Texas?

If this were possible, what good would our union be anymore?

Immie

[JohnDoe]

Like I said, I don't agree with the ruling, but Ca is my native state. I am a Citizen of the United States of America and I refuse to give up my natural rights as a Citizen of the United States of America under the Constitution of the U.S. or my rights as a native of California. So, what would happen to me and people like me if you decided to boot California out of the Union? Would I have to give up my citizenship in one of these nations? And what if it were possible to "boot" a state from the union? What would keep the blue states from banding together and booting say Florida? Texas?

If this were possible, what good would our union be anymore?

Immie no good.

geez, even a union of marriage is for better for worse....you'd think natuarl born citizens would have a stronger ''union'' than that...

;)

jd

[BoogyMan]

Using your example Gadget, I think it would be more beneficial for parents like the mom that is homeschooling her kid in your example, to be involved in the Public School system with the same effort that she was giving to her own child when schooled at home, and the country, including her children, will be much better off..... in the long run.

Instead of running away from a faulty system, attacking it....head first, with involvement.

My ownly nieces are home schooled, by two college grad parents, mostly by their mother, but the last few years the mother went back to Nursing and the Father lost his job so he is now the home school teacher.... and they are absolutely doing great! Not only in their academic abilities but also in their social lives....they participate in many groups that involve other children and really have alot of other kids as friends....

HOWEVER, I truely believe that if all the parents that had the time to home school actually got involved in the education system for the Public, our school systems and all of us, would be better off in the long run.

ALSO, this does not mean that I would outlaw homeschooling, I view this as a choice we all should have to make.

jd

I love it when someone brings up the socialization meme that is such a joke. I always post the following for their amusement. I appreciate your support of homeschooling but the socialization bit cannot go unanswered. :D



Source: http://www.secular-homeschooling.com/001/bitter_homeschooler.html

1 Please stop asking us if it's legal. If it is — and it is — it's insulting to imply that we're criminals. And if we were criminals, would we admit it?

2 Learn what the words "socialize" and "socialization" mean, and use the one you really mean instead of mixing them up the way you do now. Socializing means hanging out with other people for fun. Socialization means having acquired the skills necessary to do so successfully and pleasantly. If you're talking to me and my kids, that means that we do in fact go outside now and then to visit the other human beings on the planet, and you can safely assume that we've got a decent grasp of both concepts.

3 Quit interrupting my kid at her dance lesson, scout meeting, choir practice, baseball game, art class, field trip, park day, music class, 4H club, or soccer lesson to ask her if as a homeschooler she ever gets to socialize.

4 Don't assume that every homeschooler you meet is homeschooling for the same reasons and in the same way as that one homeschooler you know.

5 If that homeschooler you know is actually someone you saw on TV, either on the news or on a "reality" show, the above goes double.

6 Please stop telling us horror stories about the homeschoolers you know, know of, or think you might know who ruined their lives by homeschooling. You're probably the same little bluebird of happiness whose hobby is running up to pregnant women and inducing premature labor by telling them every ghastly birth story you've ever heard. We all hate you, so please go away.

7 We don't look horrified and start quizzing your kids when we hear they're in public school. Please stop drilling our children like potential oil fields to see if we're doing what you consider an adequate job of homeschooling.

8 Stop assuming all homeschoolers are religious.

9 Stop assuming that if we're religious, we must be homeschooling for religious reasons.

10 We didn't go through all the reading, learning, thinking, weighing of options, experimenting, and worrying that goes into homeschooling just to annoy you. Really. This was a deeply personal decision, tailored to the specifics of our family. Stop taking the bare fact of our being homeschoolers as either an affront or a judgment about your own educational decisions.

11 Please stop questioning my competency and demanding to see my credentials. I didn't have to complete a course in catering to successfully cook dinner for my family; I don't need a degree in teaching to educate my children. If spending at least twelve years in the kind of chew-it-up-and-spit-it-out educational facility we call public school left me with so little information in my memory banks that I can't teach the basics of an elementary education to my nearest and dearest, maybe there's a reason I'm so reluctant to send my child to school.

12 If my kid's only six and you ask me with a straight face how I can possibly teach him what he'd learn in school, please understand that you're calling me an idiot. Don't act shocked if I decide to respond in kind.

13 Stop assuming that because the word "home" is right there in "homeschool," we never leave the house. We're the ones who go to the amusement parks, museums, and zoos in the middle of the week and in the off-season and laugh at you because you have to go on weekends and holidays when it's crowded and icky.

14 Stop assuming that because the word "school" is right there in homeschool, we must sit around at a desk for six or eight hours every day, just like your kid does. Even if we're into the "school" side of education — and many of us prefer a more organic approach — we can burn through a lot of material a lot more efficiently, because we don't have to gear our lessons to the lowest common denominator.

15 Stop asking, "But what about the Prom?" Even if the idea that my kid might not be able to indulge in a night of over-hyped, over-priced revelry was enough to break my heart, plenty of kids who do go to school don't get to go to the Prom. For all you know, I'm one of them. I might still be bitter about it. So go be shallow somewhere else.

16 Don't ask my kid if she wouldn't rather go to school unless you don't mind if I ask your kid if he wouldn't rather stay home and get some sleep now and then.

17 Stop saying, "Oh, I could never homeschool!" Even if you think it's some kind of compliment, it sounds more like you're horrified. One of these days, I won't bother disagreeing with you any more.

18 If you can remember anything from chemistry or calculus class, you're allowed to ask how we'll teach these subjects to our kids. If you can't, thank you for the reassurance that we couldn't possibly do a worse job than your teachers did, and might even do a better one.

19 Stop asking about how hard it must be to be my child's teacher as well as her parent. I don't see much difference between bossing my kid around academically and bossing him around the way I do about everything else.

20 Stop saying that my kid is shy, outgoing, aggressive, anxious, quiet, boisterous, argumentative, pouty, fidgety, chatty, whiny, or loud because he's homeschooled. It's not fair that all the kids who go to school can be as annoying as they want to without being branded as representative of anything but childhood.

21 Quit assuming that my kid must be some kind of prodigy because she's homeschooled.

22 Quit assuming that I must be some kind of prodigy because I homeschool my kids.

23 Quit assuming that I must be some kind of saint because I homeschool my kids.

24 Stop talking about all the great childhood memories my kids won't get because they don't go to school, unless you want me to start asking about all the not-so-great childhood memories you have because you went to school.

25 Here's a thought: If you can't say something nice about homeschooling, shut up!

[Gadget (fmr Marine)]

I love it when someone brings up the socialization meme that is such a joke. I always post the following for their amusement. I appreciate your support of homeschooling but the socialization bit cannot go unanswered. :D

:clap:

Love it, thanks!!!!!

[Pale Rider]

I heard again on the radio someone speak of a second civil war. That makes twice this week. I'm hearing it more and more.

If another civil war breaks out, that will be the perfect time to kick the mother fuckin' communists out of California. Kill 'em all.

[JohnDoe]

I love it when someone brings up the socialization meme that is such a joke. I always post the following for their amusement. I appreciate your support of homeschooling but the socialization bit cannot go unanswered. :D


:clap: i have no problems with the piece you posted.

i do have problems with paying taxes, both local and federal and state.... every single year for someone elses kids to go to shitty schools....

if homeschooling parents get some sort of tax break for not putting their kids in public school, my husband and i should get it too!!!! that might be fairer for us...without children.... IF you take the attitude that being forced in to paying high property taxes for schools... when your own children do not use these public services... is not fair...or that you want a credit of that money to use towards a private education for your kids or towards home schooling because you are not using the public school system, then all us childless people paying those taxes should get a credit TOO....right?

jd

[Mr. P]

:clap: i have no problems with the piece you posted.

i do have problems with paying taxes, both local and federal and state.... every single year for someone elses kids to go to shitty schools....

if homeschooling parents get some sort of tax break for not putting their kids in public school, my husband and i should get it too!!!! that might be fairer for us...without children.... IF you take the attitude that being forced in to paying high property taxes for schools... when your own children do not use these public services... is not fair...or that you want a credit of that money to use towards a private education for your kids or towards home schooling because you are not using the public school system, then all us childless people paying those taxes should get a credit TOO....right?

jd

They get breaks? Never heard that here. I do know some counties here are trying to exempt folks above a certain age from school taxes. I also know that I payed school tax for the six yrs my daughter was in private school. And continue to pay them now.

[gabosaurus]

Over reacting much?
This action actually fits in with the Bush administration's Homeland Security plan. They want students instructed by "accredited teachers" to avoid extremists, such as militant groups and hate organization, to get early access to children.

Here is more of the SF Chronicle article that you may have missed.


"We're happy," said Lloyd Porter, who is on the California Teachers Association board of directors. "We always think students should be taught by credentialed teachers, no matter what the setting."
Michael Smith, president of the Home School Legal Defense Association, said the ruling would effectively ban homeschooling in the state.

"California is now on the path to being the only state to deny the vast majority of homeschooling parents their fundamental right to teach their own children at home," he said in a statement.

But Leslie Heimov, executive director of the Children's Law Center of Los Angeles, which represented the Longs' two children in the case, said the ruling did not change the law.

"They just affirmed that the current California law, which has been unchanged since the last time it was ruled on in the 1950s, is that children have to be educated in a public school, an accredited private school, or with an accredited tutor," she said. "If they want to send them to a private Christian school, they can, but they have to actually go to the school and be taught by teachers."

[BoogyMan]

:clap: i have no problems with the piece you posted.

i do have problems with paying taxes, both local and federal and state.... every single year for someone elses kids to go to shitty schools....

if homeschooling parents get some sort of tax break for not putting their kids in public school, my husband and i should get it too!!!! that might be fairer for us...without children.... IF you take the attitude that being forced in to paying high property taxes for schools... when your own children do not use these public services... is not fair...or that you want a credit of that money to use towards a private education for your kids or towards home schooling because you are not using the public school system, then all us childless people paying those taxes should get a credit TOO....right?

jd

There is NO tax break for homeschooling, we pay local taxes just like everybody else and do not benefit from having paid them other than keeping our kids out of the public cookie cutter they all the school system.

[JohnDoe]

There is NO tax break for homeschooling, we pay local taxes just like everybody else and do not benefit from having paid them other than keeping our kids out of the public cookie cutter they all the school system.

i wasn't certain, i had heard of talk on the tax break for you guys, if that is the case and it comes through, then let me know.....that would be the time for us no children folk to scream bloody murder!!! in the mean time then, i'm fine with paying the taxes.... :)


any federal tax breaks?

jd

[Hagbard Celine]

I have a sneaking suspicion that this judge has been selectively quoted. Besides, he said "A" primary purpose, not "The" primary purpose. Nothing to get your panties in a wad about--unless you actually want your kids to be weirdo un-socialized homeschool kids who creep everyone else out. (shrug)

[gabosaurus]

Everyone pays taxes to educated their children. And other people's children. It's been the American way since the beginning.
Everyone has the right to place their children in private school. You pay for that right. It doesn't exclude you from paying taxes.
Ever wonder why schools are "shitty"? It's because various people decide they don't want to pay for the schools. Public schools are funded by the public. The more you support them, the better they will become.
Public schools are also what you make them. If you support your kids, they have the same rights and privileges as anyone.
My husband and I both went to underfunded public schools. We both earned academic scholarships to top-rated universities. So did a couple of my best friends. We all graduated from college and now hold great jobs.
My husband earns a ton of money. We could easily afford a private school. But my daughter will attend a public school. Because I want her to get a diverse education, get along with the kids in her neighborhood and learn how to deal with life as it is presented.

Your mileage may vary.

[Mr. P]

Over reacting much?
This action actually fits in with the Bush administration's Homeland Security plan. They want students instructed by "accredited teachers" to avoid extremists, such as militant groups and hate organization, to get early access to children.

Here is more of the SF Chronicle article that you may have missed.

Don't look now but the NEA is such an extremist group, and they HAVE access to the children now.

Oh yeah, they're doing one hell of a job too, ain't they?

[JohnDoe]

Everyone pays taxes to educated their children. And other people's children. It's been the American way since the beginning.
Everyone has the right to place their children in private school. You pay for that right. It doesn't exclude you from paying taxes.
Ever wonder why schools are "shitty"? It's because various people decide they don't want to pay for the schools. Public schools are funded by the public. The more you support them, the better they will become.
Public schools are also what you make them. If you support your kids, they have the same rights and privileges as anyone.
My husband and I both went to underfunded public schools. We both earned academic scholarships to top-rated universities. So did a couple of my best friends. We all graduated from college and now hold great jobs.
My husband earns a ton of money. We could easily afford a private school. But my daughter will attend a public school. Because I want her to get a diverse education, get along with the kids in her neighborhood and learn how to deal with life as it is presented.

Your mileage may vary.

THAT'S FINE, i'll pay for your kids schools year after year after year....but will you pay for my health care costs in return if i get sick, or my heating/oil costs from this winter would be fine too?

:poke:

jd

[Dilloduck]

THAT'S FINE, i'll pay for your kids schools year after year after year....but will you pay for my health care costs in return if i get sick, or my heating/oil costs from this winter would be fine too?

:poke:

jd

Sorry--in Texas we are too busy paying for Mexican's health care. :laugh2:

[Kathianne]

Using your example Gadget, I think it would be more beneficial for parents like the mom that is homeschooling her kid in your example, to be involved in the Public School system with the same effort that she was giving to her own child when schooled at home, and the country, including her children, will be much better off..... in the long run.

Instead of running away from a faulty system, attacking it....head first, with involvement.

My ownly nieces are home schooled, by two college grad parents, mostly by their mother, but the last few years the mother went back to Nursing and the Father lost his job so he is now the home school teacher.... and they are absolutely doing great! Not only in their academic abilities but also in their social lives....they participate in many groups that involve other children and really have alot of other kids as friends....

HOWEVER, I truely believe that if all the parents that had the time to home school actually got involved in the education system for the Public, our school systems and all of us, would be better off in the long run.

ALSO, this does not mean that I would outlaw homeschooling, I view this as a choice we all should have to make.

jd

If parents are willing to homeschool, they should be allowed to. I absolutely believe that. Being 'involved' in the public schools or private for that matter doesn't equate with your children receiving the best education they are able to receive. I know for a fact that I could have given my kids a better education than they received, but I was not then in the position of doing so. You are speaking about systems that are in 'trouble.' I'm addressing schools that are among the best in the nation.

[Guernicaa]

I think they should allow home schooling only when the kids have mental issues. i.e. autistic kids, severe ADHD, ect..

[Kathianne]

I think they should allow home schooling only when the kids have mental issues. i.e. autistic kids, severe ADHD, ect..

Why?

[ukwxdude]

That's crazy, and I'm homeschooled myself. When I first saw that statement, I thought it was made up, but the first thing I thought of was the NAZI's. That's a highly facist statement and is why I find nationalism to be so dangerous. There's nothing fair or right about this. A parent has every right to decide a child's course of education, the govt should have no say. I truly hate the government when I see things like this. I hope they when a federal appeal against this bogus ruling.

[actsnoblemartin]

is there any way to contact the judges and tell them what communist nazi thugs i think they are, im quite serious, any links or phone numbers would be appreciated

[Mr. P]

Why?

What she said!

[Kathianne]

What she said!

why just those issues? Why not average, low, gifted?

[Guernicaa]

Why?
I look at it this way:
Parents who homeschool their children believe they're "protecting them" or that they can "do better" (in most cases)

Is there always going to be a second option in the real world?
What good will come from sheltering them from reality?

All you need to do as a parent is make sure that your kids understand (if you believe this) that the following is very bad for you:
-Having sex as a teenager
-Doing drugs
-Drinking
ect..

They need to be in the social situations that public schools, even private schools give you. They need to interact, work with other kids, learn to talk to anyone, and understand the truth about their peers. In high school, kids do have sex, kids do drink, kids do punch each other in the face, kids do drugs. You aren't going to change that. And your son/daughter needs to face real situations like this.

You just need to prepare them, warn them, and guide them.

[Kathianne]

I look at it this way:
Parents who homeschool their children believe they're "protecting them" or that they can "do better" (in most cases)

Is there always going to be a second option in the real world?
What good will come from sheltering them from reality?

All you need to do as a parent is make sure that your kids understand (if you believe this) that the following is very bad for you:
-Having sex as a teenager
-Doing drugs
-Drinking
ect..

They need to be in the social situations that public schools, even private schools give you. They need to interact, work with other kids, learn to talk to anyone, and understand the truth about their peers. In high school, kids do have sex, kids do drink, kids do punch each other in the face, kids do drugs. You aren't going to change that. And your son/daughter needs to face real situations like this.

You just need to prepare them, warn them, and guide them.

Gee, then there are all those 'non-religious based' parents that are teaching their kids:

* basic math and memorization of facts
* reading through phonics
* classics, via Great Books
* civics for the US and ancient history/western civ
* science from a scientific methods basis
* socialization through common interests, rather than popularity rankings
* allowing progress through mastery, rather than grouping or lowest common
denominator

[JohnDoe]

If parents are willing to homeschool, they should be allowed to. I absolutely believe that. Being 'involved' in the public schools or private for that matter doesn't equate with your children receiving the best education they are able to receive. I know for a fact that I could have given my kids a better education than they received, but I was not then in the position of doing so. You are speaking about systems that are in 'trouble.' I'm addressing schools that are among the best in the nation.


I agree that it should be the parent's choice to have...note


ALSO, this does not mean that I would outlaw homeschooling, I view this as a choice we all should have to make.

I tell ya what though, my nieces have gotten a fabulous home schooled education....

I wish there was a way to identify exactly what it is that works so well under these circumstances and find a way to bring the positives of it, to the public school system if possible!!!

My initial thought was the one on one attention the homeschooling would bring...

someone, I think Gaffer, and someone else? mentioned earlier that they do alot of their work at their own pace on the computer or internet and not the parents teaching them one on one...maybe these programs can be brought to the schools somehow?


jd

[Kathianne]

I agree that it should be the parent's choice to have...note



I tell ya what though, my nieces have gotten a fabulous home schooled education....

I wish there was a way to identify exactly what it is that works so well under these circumstances and find a way to bring the positives of it, to the public school system if possible!!!

My initial thought was the one on one attention the homeschooling would bring...

someone, I think Gaffer, and someone else? mentioned earlier that they do alot of their work at their own pace on the computer or internet and not the parents teaching them one on one...maybe these programs can be brought to the schools somehow?


jd
The 'public' would have to be willing to say that 'schools should teach', not try to be parents. That's the thing with good homeschooling, the parents step out of their role, other than nuturers and expose their children to the academics, more often than not, relating them to real world examples.

In 'school' we have to make the tie ins to equality, injustice, etc., often in ways that are twisting, turning and outward lies. If I was teaching without restrictions I'd wait for my kids to bring up hypocrisies, etc. Those are teaching moments. Doesn't happen that way in conventional schools.

I haven't time to teach biographies in depth of presidents, founders, etc., but IF I did, the kids would note the problems. Instead, we have to follow, more or less the texts and lessons and basically slam when it's much more complicated. Of course I'm coming from a social studies background, but the same holds in other disciplines. The kids aren't required, nay they are discouraged from discovering on their own. Then we wonder why they are unable to extrapolate.

[Hobbit]

I look at it this way:
Parents who homeschool their children believe they're "protecting them" or that they can "do better" (in most cases)

Is there always going to be a second option in the real world?
What good will come from sheltering them from reality?

All you need to do as a parent is make sure that your kids understand (if you believe this) that the following is very bad for you:
-Having sex as a teenager
-Doing drugs
-Drinking
ect..

They need to be in the social situations that public schools, even private schools give you. They need to interact, work with other kids, learn to talk to anyone, and understand the truth about their peers. In high school, kids do have sex, kids do drink, kids do punch each other in the face, kids do drugs. You aren't going to change that. And your son/daughter needs to face real situations like this.

You just need to prepare them, warn them, and guide them.

I've heard this before, and while it sounds good, it doesn't hold up. Government schools do not teach kids how to interact in the real world. They teach kids how to interact in government schools, which means how to interact with other immature kids. When homeschooling, you learn how to interact with adults, the people you will be dealing with in the real world.

As far as facing the 'real situations' of high schoolers drinking, doing drugs, and having sex, a teenager's brain hasn't fully developed yet and their ability to resist peer temptation is much less developed than an adult. Putting them in an environment where their peers are doing all these things is not only more likely to make them do these things than anything else, it's also stupid.

No, sending children to school doesn't teach them social skills. It teaches them how to act like a jackass teenager.


tell ya what though, my nieces have gotten a fabulous home schooled education....

I wish there was a way to identify exactly what it is that works so well under these circumstances and find a way to bring the positives of it, to the public school system if possible!!!

My initial thought was the one on one attention the homeschooling would bring...

someone, I think Gaffer, and someone else? mentioned earlier that they do alot of their work at their own pace on the computer or internet and not the parents teaching them one on one...maybe these programs can be brought to the schools somehow?

There is no way to bring that to government schools because the problem isn't that they need 'reform' or any other quick fix. The problem is that they're run...by the government. Only when left to compete for students and funds, free of government bureaucracy, will these schools flourish.

[Yurt]

http://l.yimg.com/img.tv.yahoo.com/tv/us/img/site/06/95/0000000695_20060919022201.jpg

[actsnoblemartin]

why do you or the state, think YOU have the right to decide whats best for others, i think thats a bit arrogant and elitiest, sorry my friend, but thats how i feel


I look at it this way:
Parents who homeschool their children believe they're "protecting them" or that they can "do better" (in most cases)

Is there always going to be a second option in the real world?
What good will come from sheltering them from reality?

All you need to do as a parent is make sure that your kids understand (if you believe this) that the following is very bad for you:
-Having sex as a teenager
-Doing drugs
-Drinking
ect..

They need to be in the social situations that public schools, even private schools give you. They need to interact, work with other kids, learn to talk to anyone, and understand the truth about their peers. In high school, kids do have sex, kids do drink, kids do punch each other in the face, kids do drugs. You aren't going to change that. And your son/daughter needs to face real situations like this.

You just need to prepare them, warn them, and guide them.

[eighballsidepocket]

If this is the court I believe it is, it has an overturn rate on it's decisions that is record breaking.

This will definitely be kicked up to the U.S. Supreme Court, and it will definitely be overturned.

Statistically, home schooled kids excellerate ahead of their public school groups of same age and grade by leaps and bounds.

Home schooled kids generally have group activities with other home schooled kids. They don't lack for socializing with their fellow peer groups, as critics try to use as a reason for public schooling. Home school parents still have to meet and follow guidelines for the state.
********
These kinds of decisions will not stand when kicked up to a higher court, i.e. the U.S. Supreme Court.

This decision will be challenged ASAP.........You can bet on it!
*********
You can be certain that the teacher's unions are behind this, as well as other groups.
********
Socialism in action folks........It's alive and thriving in California, where your children's very compliant brains are for the "Taking" and "indoctrination" by the the folks that know best, and only want the best for your child.

[Abbey Marie]

Welcome to the board, Guernicaa and Ukwxdude!

[Mr. P]

why just those issues? Why not average, low, gifted?

"What she said" was what you said not Guernicaa.

I have no idea why just those issues.