politics and religion

[manu1959]

why does obama get a pass and bush is condemned

why does obama get a pass and romney is condemned

why does obama get a pass and huckabee is condemned

can someone explain this to me cuz i don't get it.....

[Yurt]

he is protected by black people and rich white liberals that take 10 vitamins of guilt a day.

we have all seen mfm defend his church because of the "past" and alleged current in"equity" (equality). mfm is far from the minority in believing this.

[April15]

I don't know about Huckabee or Romney but Bush needs to be condemed and hung like Saddam.

[MtnBiker]

I don't know about Huckabee or Romney but Bush needs to be condemed and hung like Saddam.



You did not come even close to addressing the topic of the thread.

[manu1959]

I don't know about Huckabee or Romney but Bush needs to be condemed and hung like Saddam.

for what voting to go to war with iraq?....or being a religious man like obama.....

[manu1959]

You did not come even close to addressing the topic of the thread.

he used bush's name......:laugh2:

[PostmodernProphet]

can someone explain this to me cuz i don't get it.....

shhhh.....the liberals haven't noticed yet.....it's the Saddleback Conspiracy.....leaving the fundamentalists in charge of the GOP, the evangelicals and Catholics are making a move for the Dems....we figure we can have both parties religious by 2012......

[WRL]

shhhh.....the liberals haven't noticed yet.....it's the Saddleback Conspiracy.....leaving the fundamentalists in charge of the GOP, the evangelicals and Catholics are making a move for the Dems....we figure we can have both parties religious by 2012......

Interesting choice of date... Dec 12 2012?

[PostmodernProphet]

Interesting choice of date... Dec 12 2012?

nope, 1st Tuesday in November.....

[Monkeybone]

Interesting choice of date... Dec 12 2012?

HA! i get it. and i think that will be the date of their first meeting where eveyone is there...or they all agree on someting completely.

[JohnDoe]

Interesting choice of date... Dec 12 2012?It is December 21, 2012...the winter solstice and alignment of the planets in our solar system....possible polar shift....not December 12th but the 21st :D

good morning btw!

jd

[Monkeybone]

It is December 21, 2012...the winter solstice and alignment of the planets in our solar system....possible polar shift....not December 12th but the 21st :D

good morning btw!

jd

damn. i guess that i don't get it. i am ashamed, especially since i just was reading about it. damn numbers. :alcoholic:

[Gaffer]

Also the end of the Incan calender. The alignment with the center of the galaxy and the beginning of a new age.

On Dec 22, 2012 I will begin selling T-shirts saying "I survived Dec 21, 2012"

[JohnDoe]

damn. i guess that i don't get it. i am ashamed, especially since i just was reading about it. damn numbers. :alcoholic:It's nothing really....just the Myans doomsday clock....many Christians are haphazzardly tying their doomsday prophesy with our Armageddon prophesy....it very well could be the case, but the Bible states that not even Jesus knows the "day or the hour" so there is no way that we can....we can only speculate.

jd

[Monkeybone]

yah i know what it is.

just another Y2K. i find it hard to believe that ppl can be so impatient when it comes to the end of the world. i mean, i know what is gonna happen when it all comes to it, and understand ppl wanting a perfect world. but yah.

I would buy a Shirt that said that Gaffer

[manu1959]

ya we are totaly on topic now.....nice work april 15.......

[Hagbard Celine]

why does obama get a pass and bush is condemned

why does obama get a pass and romney is condemned

why does obama get a pass and huckabee is condemned

can someone explain this to me cuz i don't get it.....

Can you explain what the heck you're whining about? I'm not so good at riddles.

[Monkeybone]

why does obama get a pass and bush is condemned

why does obama get a pass and romney is condemned

why does obama get a pass and huckabee is condemned

can someone explain this to me cuz i don't get it.....

cuz he is gonna bring change to America. that is why. and those guys are white, with opressive religions, and want to control America.

[PostmodernProphet]

it's just the (D) behind his name.......

[JohnDoe]

Could someone please explain what Manu is concerned with or give a link to what he is talking about or even a hint would be good, cuz I am totally lost... What is Obama doing? I know he spoke at that one church and i think that church is now being investigated for it....is this what it is about? Has Obama gone on to woo the religious since that incident? Is he using churches to promote his message yet they are still getting tax write offs? What exactly is it that i missed? :(

jd

[manu1959]

Could someone please explain what Manu is concerned with or give a link to what he is talking about or even a hint would be good, cuz I am totally lost... What is Obama doing? I know he spoke at that one church and i think that church is now being investigated for it....is this what it is about? Has Obama gone on to woo the religious since that incident? Is he using churches to promote his message yet they are still getting tax write offs? What exactly is it that i missed? :(

jd

on being a christian...

[Immanuel]

why does obama get a pass and bush is condemned

why does obama get a pass and romney is condemned

why does obama get a pass and huckabee is condemned

can someone explain this to me cuz i don't get it.....

I am not sure I understand what you mean either. It seems to me that more has been made about Obama's faith than any candidate in recent history. His dealings with Trinity UCC and its retired pastor are becoming headline news.

I'm not sure Obama has gotten the pass you speak of.

Immie

[theHawk]

why does obama get a pass and bush is condemned

why does obama get a pass and romney is condemned

why does obama get a pass and huckabee is condemned

can someone explain this to me cuz i don't get it.....

I understand exactly what you are asking -


The liberal base gives so-called Christian Democratic politicians a free pass simply because they understand that the politician is in no way a real Christian. They understand that its a facade simply to trick most voters into thinking the guy isn't an athiest. Democrat "Christians" will in no way actually vote like a Christian in Congress. They will fight to maintain the standard of abortion-on-demand. They will not condemn and may even promote homosexuality. These are the two benchmarks of liberalism today and so long as a politician is willing promote both, their candidate's phoney and obviously contradictory religious beliefs will get a free pass.

[Hagbard Celine]

I understand exactly what you are asking -


The liberal base gives so-called Christian Democratic politicians a free pass simply because they understand that the politician is in no way a real Christian. They understand that its a facade simply to trick most voters into thinking the guy isn't an athiest. Democrat "Christians" will in no way actually vote like a Christian in Congress. They will fight to maintain the standard of abortion-on-demand. They will not condemn and may even promote homosexuality. These are the two benchmarks of liberalism today and so long as a politician is willing promote both, their candidate's phoney and obviously contradictory religious beliefs will get a free pass.

Accusing people you don't like or can't agree with of not being a Christian? That's a neat trick. Next I suppose you'll tell us all exactly what Obama is thinking since you seem to have such a keen insight into his personal beliefs. :rolleyes: What a sad joke.

[manu1959]

Accusing people you don't like or can't agree with of not being a Christian? That's a neat trick. Next I suppose you'll tell us all exactly what Obama is thinking since you seem to have such a keen insight into his personal beliefs. :rolleyes: What a sad joke.

is the christian faith pro abortion and pro gay marriage now....did i miss a meeting.....

.

[Hagbard Celine]

is the christian faith pro abortion and pro gay marriage now....did i miss a meeting.....

.

Last I checked being Christian meant accepting Christ as your savior and loving your fellow man. I am currently unaware of any other lemming-esque political requirements.

[Immanuel]

is the christian faith pro abortion and pro gay marriage now....did i miss a meeting.....

.

Picking and choosing various issues you could claim that no Christian is truly a Christian.

Someone who is pro-abortion will have to answer to God just as someone who is pro-life and not all those for abortion rights will be cast into Hell just as not all who are opposed to the killing of an unborn child will be welcomed into Heaven.

Immie

[theHawk]

Accusing people you don't like or can't agree with of not being a Christian? That's a neat trick. Next I suppose you'll tell us all exactly what Obama is thinking since you seem to have such a keen insight into his personal beliefs. :rolleyes: What a sad joke.


Sorry, but I don't believe any true Christian would actually promote homosexuality, since its been clearly stated a sin in the bible. Or are you one of those people that actually believe Jesus would condone abortion and homosexuality?

[Immanuel]

Sorry, but I don't believe any true Christian would actually promote homosexuality, since its been clearly stated a sin in the bible. Or are you one of those people that actually believe Jesus would condone abortion and homosexuality?

Does Jesus condone any sin?

I think Jesus forgives sin. He does not condone even one.

I am thankful that he forgives. I believe that he forgives all sins of those who believe in him.

He doesn't condone abortion. He forgives the sin of abortion. He doesn't condone murder, yet he will forgive the murderer.

Immie

[theHawk]

Last I checked being Christian meant accepting Christ as your savior and loving your fellow man. I am currently unaware of any other lemming-esque political requirements.

Yes, and if one is accepting Christ into his heart he wouldn't promote ideas 100% contradictory to Christ's teachings. Does that mean we all have to be perfect? No. Sometimes we don't follow his Word, and thats when we must ask for forgiveness. But we're not talking about personal faults of candidates, we're talking about making public policy. Knowingly making laws against Christ's teachings and giving into sin out of weakness are two entirely different things.

[Hagbard Celine]

Sorry, but I don't believe any true Christian would actually promote homosexuality, since its been clearly stated a sin in the bible. Or are you one of those people that actually believe Jesus would condone abortion and homosexuality?

I think Jesus would rebuke the sin and love the sinner. However, I have yet to see any of the candidates "promote" homosexuality. If you think being nice to people and courting them for votes equals "promotion" I fear for your sanity. :rolleyes: I think it's pretty obvious that your perspective on reality is a little bit skewed to the right.

[theHawk]

Does Jesus condone any sin?

I think Jesus forgives sin. He does not condone even one.

I am thankful that he forgives. I believe that he forgives all sins of those who believe in him.

He doesn't condone abortion. He forgives the sin of abortion. He doesn't condone murder, yet he will forgive the murderer.

Immie

Yes, he may forgive individuals for such sins, I am not disputing that. But he also expects us to stand up to evil and condemn it, not to compromise with it. So when a politician wants to promote sin as we know it, are we suppose to support him?

[The Reverend]

why does obama get a pass and bush is condemned

why does obama get a pass and romney is condemned

why does obama get a pass and huckabee is condemned

can someone explain this to me cuz i don't get it.....
Because Obama is the Messiah :rolleyes:
When he is elected well Hillary says it best
"The sky will open. The light will come down. Celestial choirs will be singing, and everyone will know we should do the right thing and the world will be perfect.'"- clinton
Even Obama knows it
a light will shine through that window, a beam of light will come down upon you, you will experience an epiphany ... and you will suddenly realize that you must go to the polls and vote for Obama" - Barack Obama

I don't know about Huckabee or Romney but Bush needs to be condemed and hung like Saddam.
Hello April, did not know you were a member here

[Immanuel]

Yes, he may forgive individuals for such sins, I am not disputing that. But he also expects us to stand up to evil and condemn it, not to compromise with it. So when a politician wants to promote sin as we know it, are we suppose to support him?

What politicians doesn't support sin in some manner? Are you suggesting we not support any politicians?

Immie

[theHawk]

I think Jesus would rebuke the sin and love the sinner. However, I have yet to see any of the candidates "promote" homosexuality. If you think being nice to people and courting them for votes equals "promotion" I fear for your sanity. :rolleyes: I think it's pretty obvious that your perspective on reality is a little bit skewed to the right.

But you certainly have seen and heard of politicians condoning homosexuality. So if you're publically saying that its "OK", then thats pretty much promoting it....

[theHawk]

What politicians doesn't support sin in some manner? Are you suggesting we not support any politicians?

Immie

I would suggest not to support politicians who condone murder of unborn children, but thats not really the point of this thread. The question was asked why a democratic politician isn't scrutinized for his religious beliefs. I'm simply stating that its because its understood that he doesn't have the beliefs of the religion that contradict the liberal policies.

[JohnDoe]

But you certainly have seen and heard of politicians condoning homosexuality. So if you're publically saying that its "OK", then thats pretty much promoting it....
So is it the same with politicians not speaking out against alcohol being legal, or Porn shops being legal, or strip clubs being legal or "massage parlors" being legal or Prostitution being legal like in Nevada, or gambling being legal which also is corrupting in the same type of moral sense that is being applied to homosexuality? Are they promoting those things by not speaking out against them?

Are they saying those things are all okay because they don't go and ban it or speak on a regular basis of how corrupting and bad it is?

And please don't take this as me supporting any of these behaviors, but it appears to me that we are suppose to be living in a free country when it comes to personal behaqvior for the most part....?

jd

[theHawk]

What politicians doesn't support sin in some manner? Are you suggesting we not support any politicians?

Immie

I am curious to know though, what sins do conservative politicians support?

[Immanuel]

I would suggest not to support politicians who condone murder of unborn children, but thats not really the point of this thread. The question was asked why a democratic politician isn't scrutinized for his religious beliefs. I'm simply stating that its because its understood that he doesn't have the beliefs of the religion that contradict the liberal policies.

How about a politician that condones the murder of innocent born children?

I understood your other post and although I looked at the question differently than you, I don't disagree with your point of view. I looked at the question as if it were asked... "Why do 'we' as opposed to the press give Obama a pass yet not Bush... Huckabee... Romney?

Immie

[Immanuel]

I am curious to know though, what sins do conservative politicians support?

Well, the current one supports the killing of innocent children in Iraq for one.

And then there is the fact that although he paid lip-service to the religious conservatives he's actually done nothing to curb abortion or murder for that matter. One could consider that support for the industry.

One could consider the raping of the American people through obscene oil prices a sin as well. Seems to me that Bush made his fortune in this manner.

But, I wasn't posting to point fingers at the conservatives. My point was more that we all, CONSERVATIVES included, are sinners and few if any of us will actually admit to our guilt and work against our sinfulness.

Immie

[JohnDoe]

Divorce, fornicators, adulterers, bearing false witness, greed, selfishness, coveting, boasting, thievery/stealing....there are a number of sins that the Republican politicians and Democratic politicians have been a party to....

That was an easy question! :)

[theHawk]

Divorce, fornicators, adulterers, bearing false witness, greed, selfishness, coveting, boasting, thievery/stealing....there are a number of sins that the Republican politicians and Democratic politicians have been a party to....

That was an easy question! :)

Of course they have been party to those sins, they are human. But you completely avoided the question. The question was what sins do they promote through legislation?

[Immanuel]

Of course they have been party to those sins, they are human. But you completely avoided the question. The question was what sins do they promote through legislation?

No it wasn't. :)

It was what sins do they support. :) You added through legislation just now.

BTW Thanks JD, but I was attempting to avoid personal sin. Sooner or later someone will find something they can point at me and say... "you hypocrit!" :D

Immie

[theHawk]

Well, the current one supports the killing of innocent children in Iraq for one.
Having been in the military, I would like to ask where this policy is written in law? When has the current President ever condoned killing of innocent chilren in Iraq? All of our military policies make it clear that its illegal to murder non-combatants. Please quote the new regulations since I have yet to see them...
And if you believe this is the case, is former President Clinton not guilty of this too, since he made us go to war in Kosovo? FDR, for all those kids we killed in Japan and Europe? JFK, for Vietnam? Lincoln?




And then there is the fact that although he paid lip-service to the religious conservatives he's actually done nothing to curb abortion or murder for that matter. One could consider that support for the industry.
Hardly conclusive since the Supreme Court has taken away the right of the people to pass legislation on this issue.



One could consider the raping of the American people through obscene oil prices a sin as well. Seems to me that Bush made his fortune in this manner.
Now paying high prices for a limited product is considered a sin? I wasn't aware that the government controlled prices, but if you know that the free market isn't setting the prices are somehow Bush secretly is, then by all means explain how.



But, I wasn't posting to point fingers at the conservatives. My point was more that we all, CONSERVATIVES included, are sinners and few if any of us will actually admit to our guilt and work against our sinfulness.

Immie
I didn't say that conservatives don't commit sin. I am asking which sins that conservatives condone and promote through legislation.

[theHawk]

It was what sins do they support. :) You added through legislation just now.


That the whole point, a politician's job is to pass legislation. How else would a politician "support" an idea or action?

When I said "So when a politician wants to promote sin as we know it, are we suppose to support him?" I was talking about legislation they try to pass or keep on the books, such as abortion. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

[Immanuel]

Having been in the military, I would like to ask where this policy is written in law? When has the current President ever condoned killing of innocent chilren in Iraq? All of our military policies make it clear that its illegal to murder non-combatants. Please quote the new regulations since I have yet to see them...
And if you believe this is the case, is former President Clinton not guilty of this too, since he made us go to war in Kosovo? FDR, for all those kids we killed in Japan and Europe? JFK, for Vietnam? Lincon?

Who said it was a written policy?

Did I say any of those other politicians were innocent?




Hardly conclusive since the Supreme Court has taken away the right of the people to pass legislation on this issue.

Since when does it have to be conclusive?

The President has done nothing to curb abortions in eight years yet when he ran for office it was one of the top things on his list.



Now paying high prices for a limited product is considered a sin? I wasn't aware that the government controlled prices, but if you know that the free market isn't setting the prices are somehow Bush secretly is, then by all means explain how.

No, high prices is not considered a sin but exorbitantly high prices are on the level of usury and usury was considered a sin under the old testament. I also said it was how he made his fortune not that he was controlling prices today. Although, I believe through his policies he is assisting the industry.



I didn't say that conservatives don't commit sin. I am asking which sins that conservatives condone and promote through legislation.

Nah! You changed the question, but that has been addressed.

Again, my point was not to point fingers at the current batch of conservatives in political office but to suggest that they are not sin-free as you seemed to indicate.

Immie

[Immanuel]

That the whole point, a politician's job is to pass legislation. How else would a politician "support" an idea or action?

When I said "So when a politician wants to promote sin as we know it, are we suppose to support him?" I was talking about legislation they try to pass or keep on the books, such as abortion. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

You're forgiven. Hope you'll forgive me for not understanding what you meant. :)

Immie

[theHawk]

Who said it was a written policy?

Did I say any of those other politicians were innocent?

Then what evidence do you have that the current President condones killing innocent children?





Since when does it have to be conclusive?

The President has done nothing to curb abortions in eight years yet when he ran for office it was one of the top things on his list.

He nominated two conservative judges....who will most likely overturn Roe v Wade when given the chance.



No, high prices is not considered a sin but exorbitantly high prices are on the level of usury and usury was considered a sin under the old testament. I also said it was how he made his fortune not that he was controlling prices today. Although, I believe through his policies he is assisting the industry.

What policies? Can you be specific? As far as I know third world countries like China with their growing demand on a limited product is what is driving up the price. As well as the falling dollar....
Is Bushs' policy to make the Chinese and Indians guzzle more gas?

[Immanuel]

Then what evidence do you have that the current President condones killing innocent children?

Has he done anything to prevent it? Anything at all?


He nominated two conservative judges....who will most likely overturn Roe v Wade when given the chance.

I believe the issue has come to them twice already and they haven't even given it the chance to be heard.

Overturning Roe v. Wade may not even be the best way to curb abortion either. Doing so may well drive it underground and make things even worse. The President should be instituting policies that WILL promote adoption and curb abortion. He's done none of that.

Relying on two new Justices who have not proven themselves in any manner in the war against abortion is a cop out. Actions speak louder than words and unfortunately we aren't getting either action or words.


What policies? Can you be specific? As far as I know third world countries like China with their growing demand on a limited product is what is driving up the price. As well as the falling dollar....
Is Bushs' policy to make the Chinese and Indians guzzle more gas?

Tax policies benefiting the oil industry is where I was going.

Immie

[glockmail]

I think Jesus would rebuke the sin and love the sinner. However, I have yet to see any of the candidates "promote" homosexuality. If you think being nice to people and courting them for votes equals "promotion" I fear for your sanity. :rolleyes: I think it's pretty obvious that your perspective on reality is a little bit skewed to the right. Queer enablers promote homosexuality by referring to it as normal and healthy.

[Hagbard Celine]

Queer enablers promote homosexuality by referring to it as normal and healthy.

(shrug) What do "queer enablers" have to do with this discussion? Or do you just like writing "queer enablers" because it tickles your ninners to do so?

[glockmail]

(shrug) What do "queer enablers" have to do with this discussion? Or do you just like writing "queer enablers" because it tickles your ninners to do so? I wrote "queer enablers" because queer enablers promote homosexuality, and you said that nobody promotes it. You were wrong, and being the arrogant thread bumper that I am, I pointed out that you were wrong.

What's a "ninner"?

[Hagbard Celine]

I wrote "queer enablers" because queer enablers promote homosexuality, and you said that nobody promotes it. You were wrong, and being the arrogant thread bumper that I am, I pointed out that you were wrong.

What's a "ninner"?
:rolleyes: I never said "nobody promotes homosexuality."

A "ninner" is a teet.

[theHawk]

Has he done anything to prevent it? Anything at all?
Yes, he has maintained the military policy of doing everything possible to avoid deaths of non-combatants. But if the best you can come up with is that he hasn't "done anything to prevent it" then perhaps you've conceeded the point.



I believe the issue has come to them twice already and they haven't even given it the chance to be heard.

Overturning Roe v. Wade may not even be the best way to curb abortion either. Doing so may well drive it underground and make things even worse. The President should be instituting policies that WILL promote adoption and curb abortion. He's done none of that.

Relying on two new Justices who have not proven themselves in any manner in the war against abortion is a cop out. Actions speak louder than words and unfortunately we aren't getting either action or words.

He did pass the ban on partial-birth abortions did he not? The President is not an all powerful dictator, not sure what else he can do other than sign into law (or veto) legsilation that comes across his desk, and appoint conservative judges.



Tax policies benefiting the oil industry is where I was going.

Immie

So you think taxing the oil industry is going to alleviate the rising prices? And China and the falling dollar have nothing to do with it?

[glockmail]

:rolleyes: I never said "nobody promotes homosexuality."...


....I have yet to see any of the candidates "promote" homosexuality. ...... :laugh2:

[Hagbard Celine]

:laugh2:

I still never said "nobody promotes it." I said no candidates do genius.

[glockmail]

I still never said "nobody promotes it." I said no candidates do genius.



Gay Marriage Advocates Kucinich, Gravel Barred From NH Debate
by The Associated Press http://www.365gay.com/Newscon08/01/010508kucinich.htm

[Gaffer]

Has he done anything to prevent it? Anything at all?


Immie

He initiated the surge to stamp out AQ. He has had the troops work with the militia to fight the AQ types that ARE killing children. The only ones killing children over there are AQ. And for you to insinuate that US troops are doing so is insulting. His policies have been to preserve life as much as possible.

If US troops have killed children or even innocent civilians I would like you to produce a good reputable link to that effect.

[Immanuel]

He initiated the surge to stamp out AQ. He has had the troops work with the militia to fight the AQ types that ARE killing children. The only ones killing children over there are AQ. And for you to insinuate that US troops are doing so is insulting. His policies have been to preserve life as much as possible.

If US troops have killed children or even innocent civilians I would like you to produce a good reputable link to that effect.

You seem to misunderstand what I am saying. Those innocent children are dying not by deliberate acts of our soldiers but as an act of war. These children are dying because George W. Bush has instituted an act of aggression on their home land. The deaths of these children are upon no one else's shoulders than George W. Bush. These children would not be dying if it were not for George's personal vendetta. Personally, I don't think George really gives a damned either.

Like it or not Gaffer, these children did not need to die.

Immie

[Immanuel]

He initiated the surge to stamp out AQ. He has had the troops work with the militia to fight the AQ types that ARE killing children. The only ones killing children over there are AQ. And for you to insinuate that US troops are doing so is insulting. His policies have been to preserve life as much as possible.

If US troops have killed children or even innocent civilians I would like you to produce a good reputable link to that effect.

And one more thing my friend... this war does not need to be fought in these children's play yards. We have the capability to snuff out Al Qaeda without harming these children. We could do it much more efficiently without the ground war that is taking place.

That, my friend, is why those children are dying so needlessly. That is why their blood is on his hands.

Immie