Compromise?

[flaja]

Generally speaking liberals want:

Universal healthcare

Higher taxes for the “rich”

To stop global warming

Human rights for animals, especially primates

To stop the war in Iraq and war in general

Less spending for the military

Public financing for political campaigns

More spending for public education

More spending for Social Security programs.

Generally speaking conservatives want:

Lower taxes

To uphold the sanctity of monogamous heterosexual marriage

To end abortion

Line item veto for the president on spending legislation

Balanced budget either with or without an amendment to the Constitution

A public education system that works

More spending for the military

Win the war in Iraq

Privatize Social Security.

Now, is there anything that the liberals would accept from the conservative list in exchange for getting something in the liberal list? Is there anything in the liberal list that consevatives would accept in order to get something from their own list? What are you willing to trade?

[Yurt]

i would trade you mclame, but you already have him.

[flaja]

i would trade you mclame, but you already have him.

I don’t have him since I am a conservative but not a Republican while he is a Republican but not a conservative.

[manu1959]

I don’t have him since I am a conservative but not a Republican while he is a Republican but not a conservative.

what is your list mr conservative..........

[flaja]

what is your list mr conservative..........

If you are asking for my list of preferred candidates, I don’t have one.

I wouldn’t personally compromise on any social issue, but I would be willing to at least discuss anything else.

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,

1. I like your listing skills.
2. But where are the numbers?:laugh2:
3. Its a numbers game, never forget that.
4. *Oh and welcome to my corner of the Internet.*

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[truthmatters]

Generally speaking liberals want:

Universal healthcare : Most Americans want this now not just liberals

Higher taxes for the “rich” : Higher taxes on those who gain most from our system is a logical thing to do at this point , If you try raising taxes on a lower and middle class in the middle of a downturn it wont work out to well. We need to pay for what we are spending and we can not cut spending we have to do both cut and raise taxes like any sane country would

To stop global warming : we want to limmit our human impact. Global warming is not only man made but our contribution to the equation is not helping our world. Another benifit of gettting off of oil is to take the power out of the hands of a whole cabal of humans who have proven they will use all the profits to try to destroy our country.

Human rights for animals, especially primates : wrong

To stop the war in Iraq and war in general :Its not smart to wage wars that harm your own country

Less spending for the military :We can cut our military spending and still spend vast amounts more than any other country in the world.

Public financing for political campaigns :I would like to give free airtime to all qualified candidates(petition signatures) and make it so that ONLY individual voters can give money to a campaign.

More spending for public education : Ask any company CEO and they will tell you you cant change any business practice for the better without spending some money , our greatest asset is our people

More spending for Social Security programs. :If we just pay SS back what we have taken from it it will be fine hense the military spending cut.



I dont see how I can give up what I have not asked for (human rights for animals, ending global warming) I dont see why we need to give up things most Americans want like Health care, fairer tax system, better eco policy, End to Iraq war, Less military spending, clean elections, schools that work and a solvent SS program.

[flaja]

Sorry bout that,

1. I like your listing skills.
2. But where are the numbers?:laugh2:
3. Its a numbers game, never forget that.
4. *Oh and welcome to my corner of the Internet.*

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas


I don’t understand: Numbers?

Explain. Are you asking about the relative number of liberals and conservatives, or are you asking about how much money compromise would cost?

[truthmatters]

He posts in a list style on every post I have ever seen him make.

He is pretty wacky

[Hobbit]

Generally speaking liberals want:

Universal healthcare : Most Americans want this now not just liberals

If it's a majority, it's a small one consisting of ignorant morons with no grasp of how government, taxes, and the free market work who assume that what it would amount to is the same health care they get now without having to pay for it.


Higher taxes for the “rich” : Higher taxes on those who gain most from our system is a logical thing to do at this point , If you try raising taxes on a lower and middle class in the middle of a downturn it wont work out to well. We need to pay for what we are spending and we can not cut spending we have to do both cut and raise taxes like any sane country would

You make two points here, so I'll address them individually.
1: What is logical about confiscating through the use of force a greater percentage of person B's money solely because person B has had the wherewithal to make his time more valuable. It's punitive of hard work and impoverishes those who provide the majority of jobs, thus impoverishing those they hire. If you tax the people who buy boats, the people who make boats lose their jobs.
2. The past 3 major tax cuts have resulted in an increase in federal revenues. The reason there's still a deficit is because spending increases faster than revenues.


To stop global warming : we want to limmit our human impact. Global warming is not only man made but our contribution to the equation is not helping our world. Another benifit of gettting off of oil is to take the power out of the hands of a whole cabal of humans who have proven they will use all the profits to try to destroy our country.

Where is this within the power of the federal government, for one. And for another, how is a single degree over a period of 100 years, during which we saw a declining ice age and increased solar activity any kind of crisis. I also find it a convenient coincidence that all of these environmental solutions involve increasing the size of the government, punishing the rich, and regulation individual behavior. It almost makes me think the environmental movement might have another agenda...


Human rights for animals, especially primates : wrong

I'll side with you here. PETA may be considered liberal, but animal rights don't seem to be on the Democrat agenda.


To stop the war in Iraq and war in general :Its not smart to wage wars that harm your own country

How has it harmed our country? By keeping the terrorists who want us dead focused on another country? By systematically wiping out some of the most prolific terrorists in the world? I don't see anything negative this war has done to our country that wasn't hundreds of times worse in every other war we've ever fought. Only the division surpasses anything other than Vietnam, and that's not a function of the war, but rather a function of its politicization.


Less spending for the military :We can cut our military spending and still spend vast amounts more than any other country in the world.

Our military needs are not the same as the rest of the world. The question should not be, "Are we spending as much as anybody else?" It should be, "Are we spending enough to get the job done?" What you have suggested would be like trying to cut the power budget of an amusement park because you can do so and still have a larger power budget than the 2 bedroom house next door.


Public financing for political campaigns :I would like to give free airtime to all qualified candidates(petition signatures) and make it so that ONLY individual voters can give money to a campaign.

Doing this would not only involve infringing upon the first amendment rights of anybody deemed unqualified to count as an individual voter, it would involve seizing resources (airtime) from one person through the use of force and using those resources towards an end that isn't in any way beneficial to those whose effort created those resources. It's authoritarian, socialist, and propagates the idea that more government regulation is the universal solution to everything.


More spending for public education : Ask any company CEO and they will tell you you cant change any business practice for the better without spending some money , our greatest asset is our people

Ask anybody from Wal-Mart sacker to CEO and they'll tell you that if repeated budget increases for a department have been met with steady or declining results, increasing their budget again won't do anything different. The NEA is a black hole which sucks up tax dollars and continues to spit out self-centered brats who can't read worth crap who think Isaac Newton invented those little fruit-filled snack cakes.


More spending for Social Security programs. :If we just pay SS back what we have taken from it it will be fine hense the military spending cut.

We don't collect enough taxes in a year to resurrect that program, and I'm not just talking SS taxes, I'm talking ALL taxes. It WILL collapse. The only question is when.




I dont see how I can give up what I have not asked for (human rights for animals, ending global warming) I dont see why we need to give up things most Americans want like Health care, fairer tax system, better eco policy, End to Iraq war, Less military spending, clean elections, schools that work and a solvent SS program.

Most of those things you list as being desired by 'a majority of Americans' either aren't or they are, but your proposed solution would either infringe on Constitutional freedoms (campaign finance reform) or do the opposite of what you claim (raising taxes, yet again, on the horrible, evil rich people who make their money cheating poor people by giving them jobs and health insurance benefits).

[avatar4321]

Generally speaking liberals want:

Universal healthcare : Most Americans want this now not just liberals

Higher taxes for the “rich” : Higher taxes on those who gain most from our system is a logical thing to do at this point , If you try raising taxes on a lower and middle class in the middle of a downturn it wont work out to well. We need to pay for what we are spending and we can not cut spending we have to do both cut and raise taxes like any sane country would

To stop global warming : we want to limmit our human impact. Global warming is not only man made but our contribution to the equation is not helping our world. Another benifit of gettting off of oil is to take the power out of the hands of a whole cabal of humans who have proven they will use all the profits to try to destroy our country.

Human rights for animals, especially primates : wrong

To stop the war in Iraq and war in general :Its not smart to wage wars that harm your own country

Less spending for the military :We can cut our military spending and still spend vast amounts more than any other country in the world.

Public financing for political campaigns :I would like to give free airtime to all qualified candidates(petition signatures) and make it so that ONLY individual voters can give money to a campaign.

More spending for public education : Ask any company CEO and they will tell you you cant change any business practice for the better without spending some money , our greatest asset is our people

More spending for Social Security programs. :If we just pay SS back what we have taken from it it will be fine hense the military spending cut.



I dont see how I can give up what I have not asked for (human rights for animals, ending global warming) I dont see why we need to give up things most Americans want like Health care, fairer tax system, better eco policy, End to Iraq war, Less military spending, clean elections, schools that work and a solvent SS program.

and you seriously wonder why everyone things you are a wacko socialist...

[truthmatters]

More Americans agree with me than you avatar.


This does not make me a socialist it makes me part of the American majority.

[gabosaurus]

Forget the arguments. Resign yourself that it is going to happen and learn to accept it. :)

[flaja]

Generally speaking liberals want:


Universal healthcare : Most Americans want this now not just liberals

If most Americans want this, then they would be telling the politicians that they want universal healthcare and every politician that is now running for office would be promising it.

But perhaps I should clarify: Liberals want universal healthcare that is paid for by the government, i.e., they want socialized medicine.


Higher taxes for the “rich” : Higher taxes on those who gain most from our system is a logical thing to do at this point

When Hell freezes over. It is immoral to expect someone to pay more just because they can afford to pay more. Progressive taxation is typical liberalism.


To stop global warming : we want to limmit our human impact. Global warming is not only man made but our contribution to the equation is not helping our world. Another benifit of gettting off of oil is to take the power out of the hands of a whole cabal of humans who have proven they will use all the profits to try to destroy our country.

There is no scientific evidence showing that humans are causing global warming for the simple fact that we cannot test any man-made global warming hypothesis because we don’t have a spare earth to use as a control group. We can determine the effects of human activity on the earth only if we had an earth that is completely void of human activity.


Human rights for animals, especially primates : wrong

Peta and the Green Party aren’t liberal/left-leaning organizations?

What about Barak Obama? Is he not a liberal? http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1704179,00.html


To stop the war in Iraq and war in general :Its not smart to wage wars that harm your own country

It’s not smart to let a rabid dictator with a history of using WMD go unchecked either.


Less spending for the military :We can cut our military spending and still spend vast amounts more than any other country in the world.

The U.S. hasn’t spent as much as 10% of its GDP on military spending in almost 50 years:
http://www.truthandpolitics.org/military-relative-size.php

On average the yearly military spending from 1940 to 2003 was only 8.4%. Between 1981 and 2003 the average yearly spending was only 4.79% of GDP.

In 2003 the purchasing power of Red China’s military budget was $140,000,000,000, and in March 2006 China had 2,255,000 active duty military personel. And according to U.S. Department of Defense estimates China’s military spending between 2004 and 2005 accounted for 4.2% of China’s GDP when our military budget during this time was only 3.7% of our GDP. And at the same time Russia’s military budget took up 12% of that country’s GDP: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_People's_Republic_of_China


Public financing for political campaigns :I would like to give free airtime to all qualified candidates(petition signatures) and make it so that ONLY individual voters can give money to a campaign.

I would like to restrict candidates from taking campaign money from anyone other than individual voters that are eligible to vote for the candidate. However, I am absolutely opposed to telling business owners that they must give or sell air time to any candidate whom they don’t support. Mandated speech is just as wrong as restricted speech.


More spending for public education : Ask any company CEO and they will tell you you cant change any business practice for the better without spending some money , our greatest asset is our people

Doesn’t the U.S. spend more on public education than is customary in other countries? So why do students in other countries outscore us on standardized exams?


More spending for Social Security programs. :If we just pay SS back what we have taken from it it will be fine hense the military spending cut.

I suppose none of what we borrow from the Social Security trust fund ever goes to public schools, HUD, Medicare, Medicaid, AFDC (or whatever it is called now), free school lunches or food stamps. For several decades now military spending has taken up less than 50% of the federal budget with the remainder going mostly to welfare spending.


I dont see how I can give up what I have not asked for (human rights for animals, ending global warming)

When did I say that every liberal wants everything in the list?

[flaja]

He posts in a list style on every post I have ever seen him make.

He is pretty wacky

Considering that I have a scientist's training (bachelor's degree in biology), I tend to do things in a systematic manner.

[truthmatters]

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2007/images/05/09/rel6e.pdf

Healthcare page 4



"When Hell freezes over. It is immoral to expect someone to pay more just because they can afford to pay more. Progressive taxation is typical liberalism."

Why did you ignore what I told you? They benifit the most from the tax dollars we spend to take care of our infrastructure. The wealthy get their money from the commerse which uses our infrastucture more than ANY individual does. Why should I pay for the repairs and upkeep a 4 15 ton truck does to my infrastucture and enviroment when I drive an economy car? That is one example of the infrastructure they use upo and benifit from. There are many ways they use it and benifit from it much more than I do. It is a matter of them paying their FAIR share.


spending pie chart
http://www.care.org/graphics/getinvolved/advocacy/budget_piechart.gif

[nevadamedic]

I don’t have him since I am a conservative but not a Republican while he is a Republican but not a conservative.

Senator MCCAIN is more Conservative then any member of this board.

[flaja]

I'll side with you here. PETA may be considered liberal, but animal rights don't seem to be on the Democrat agenda.

It likely will be if Obama is elected, as I’ve shown in a previous post.


Doing this would not only involve infringing upon the first amendment rights of anybody deemed unqualified to count as an individual voter, it would involve seizing resources (airtime) from one person through the use of force and using those resources towards an end that isn't in any way beneficial to those whose effort created those resources. It's authoritarian, socialist, and propagates the idea that more government regulation is the universal solution to everything.

I don’t know where the nonsense came from, but under U.S. law airwaves are considered public property. No broadcaster legally owns the broadcast frequencies that they use. In my opinion this is wrong, but it is the rationale that the Left uses to justify making broadcasters support candidates that they wouldn’t otherwise give the time of day to. Using the Left’s logic the Playboy Channel should have to give free airtime to Mike Huckabee.


We don't collect enough taxes in a year to resurrect that program, and I'm not just talking SS taxes, I'm talking ALL taxes. It WILL collapse. The only question is when.

The first wave of babyboomers will reach the 67 year old retirement age in 2009. The economy will collapse shortly thereafter as they start liquidating their stock portfolios to have money to live on and the stock market disintegrates when supply of stock shares overwhelms demand. Social Security going broke is the least of our worries.

[glockmail]

....What are you willing to trade? Nothing. Better to win the war of ideas altogether for a complete victory. That way America wins and the liberals shrink off into oblivion.

[avatar4321]

Senator MCCAIN is more Conservative then any member of this board.

Senator McCain is not conservative unless compared to Clinton or Obama and is completely irrelevant to the thread. Unless you have some reason to talk about McCain that is actually relevant to the thread, I would ask you to please not derail this thread.

[nevadamedic]

Senator McCain is not conservative unless compared to Clinton or Obama and is completely irrelevant to the thread. Unless you have some reason to talk about McCain that is actually relevant to the thread, I would ask you to please not derail this thread.

You should say the same thing to Yurt then as my comment was in response to a smart ass comment he made and he is very Conservative. Like I said you people are suckers for believing all this propaganda you have been hearing.

[avatar4321]

You should say the same thing to Yurt then as my comment was in response to a smart ass comment he made and he is very Conservative. Like I said you people are suckers for believing all this propaganda you have been hearing.

you were responding to flaja

[flaja]

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2007/images/05/09/rel6e.pdf

Healthcare page 4

Only 43% of the people polled say healthcare is an extremely important issue, the same figure for gas prices. I wouldn’t think this small number would equate to 64% of the people polled wanting a national health insurance program. I stand by my earlier claim that if most Americans want some form of socialized medicine then all of the politicians who are running for office would be promising it.

Furthermore, my understanding is that Gallup isn't the most reliable source for polling data.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/business/healthcare/just_33_favor_national_health_insurance

According to a Rasmussen survey, taken in February 2007, only 33% of the country wants national health insurance. 33% is not most Americans.


Why did you ignore what I told you? They benifit the most from the tax dollars we spend to take care of our infrastructure.

Is this why we have some 400 bridges across the country with the same structural flaw as that interstate bridge that collapsed in Minnesota last year? Is this why Americans spend several hours a day sitting in traffic? And is it why the potholes in my neighborhood never get fixed correctly the first time?

[flaja]

Senator MCCAIN is more Conservative then any member of this board.


Define conservatve and don't confuse it with libertarian.

[flaja]

Nothing. Better to win the war of ideas altogether for a complete victory. That way America wins and the liberals shrink off into oblivion.


You don’t win the war of ideas when your recalcitrance leads to stalemate.

If you believe that liberalism is bad and you think that conservative ideas can win out, what do you lose by letting liberals have enough power to implement all the policies they want to implement? By your logic these liberal polices must ultimately fail and thus drive the country into the conservative camp.

In the same vein, if you believe that conservatism is bad and you think that liberal ideas can win out, what do you lose by letting conservatives have enough power to implement all the policies they want to implement? By your logic these conservative polices must ultimately fail and thus drive the country into the liberal camp.

[glockmail]

You don’t win the war of ideas when your recalcitrance leads to stalemate.

If you believe that liberalism is bad and you think that conservative ideas can win out, what do you lose by letting liberals have enough power to implement all the policies they want to implement? By your logic these liberal polices must ultimately fail and thus drive the country into the conservative camp.

..... Liberal policies always fail. Remember the War on Poverty? It asted longer than WW2, Korea, Viet Nam and Iraq combined. Probably cost more to. Liberals never give up, and make exuses that their programs are not "fully funded".

[Yurt]

Sorry bout that,

1. I like your listing skills.
2. But where are the numbers?:laugh2:
3. Its a numbers game, never forget that.
4. *Oh and welcome to my corner of the Internet.*

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

go away, go far away.... mr internet tough guy.

you got banned from your latest forum, hence why you crawl back here.


haha, love having you here oh great 1

[flaja]

Liberal policies always fail. Remember the War on Poverty? It asted longer than WW2, Korea, Viet Nam and Iraq combined. Probably cost more to. Liberals never give up, and make exuses that their programs are not "fully funded".


You didn’t answer my question. If liberalism is always bound to fail, why not let the liberals have total power to implement anything they want? If you know their policies will fail, then you should have every expectation that the American People will then flock to the conservative cause.

[manu1959]

You didn’t answer my question. If liberalism is always bound to fail, why not let the liberals have total power to implement anything they want? If you know their policies will fail, then you should have every expectation that the American People will then flock to the conservative cause.

it would appear they will get their chance shortly......

[Dilloduck]

it would appear they will get their chance shortly......

Agreed----only a bigot wouldn't vote for Obama !

[glockmail]

You didn’t answer my question. If liberalism is always bound to fail, why not let the liberals have total power to implement anything they want? If you know their policies will fail, then you should have every expectation that the American People will then flock to the conservative cause. I'm not willing to give up all that I worked for for some fools named Clinton and Kennedy and Obama take it away from me and redistribute it away to peopke who aren't willing to work for it. If you and they want to gather some liberals on a piece of land somewhere and experiment with your ideas then have at it.

[retiredman]

I'm not willing to give up all that I worked for for some fools named Clinton and Kennedy and Obama take it away from me and redistribute it away to peopke who aren't willing to work for it. If you and they want to gather some liberals on a piece of land somewhere and experiment with your ideas then have at it.


so what do you intend to do with all that you have worked for when Obama is elected? Do you intend to pull up stakes and move to some more conservative nation state, and if so, where would that be?

[flaja]

I'm not willing to give up all that I worked for for some fools named Clinton and Kennedy and Obama take it away from me and redistribute it away to peopke who aren't willing to work for it. If you and they want to gather some liberals on a piece of land somewhere and experiment with your ideas then have at it.


So you aren’t willing to let liberals have power even though you claim that liberalism fails 100% of the time. What are you afraid of? How else do you intend to win the war of ideas?

[glockmail]

so what do you intend to do with all that you have worked for when Obama is elected? Do you intend to pull up stakes and move to some more conservative nation state, and if so, where would that be?

I lived in NYS for 11 years and moved from there because I didn't want to pay 10 grand in property taxes. Screw them.

With regards to Obama, if my taxes are raised to the point where it makes little sense to earn more then I may, in fact, work less. Screw them.

[glockmail]

So you aren’t willing to let liberals have power even though you claim that liberalism fails 100% of the time. What are you afraid of? How else do you intend to win the war of ideas? That's a silly argument of yours. I know that if I hit my thumb with a hammer it will hurt 100% of the time too. You go ahead and try it. I'll rely on past experience to dictate my decisions.

[JohnDoe]

Generally speaking liberals want:

Universal healthcare - we have a problem, a serious problem with the way our health care system functions and profits off of the sick. We have had double digit increases in the cost of health care for the last 10 years, every single year....this is wayyyyyyy over exceeding our income increases during the same period and there is absolutely no sign of this slowing down. SOMETHING has to be reviewed and addressed to slow this down, so that every American can afford their healthcare costs. We are not selling widgits here, this is not the typical "free market" service, lives are at stake for goodness's sake!!! I personally do not believe that the proposals for a private sector Universal health care plan will solve the true problems underlying our health care system, it will BANKRUPT us as a country unless we address what has gone wrong and allowed our health care system to get sooooo out of wack regarding the pricing.


Higher taxes for the “rich”-you say it is immoral to tax the wealthiest more to pay for what we have spent, I say it is incredibly immoral to tax more, those that are just getting by, to pay for our bills.

Cut fricking spending or don't cut the taxes that pays the bills. And I am all for cutting taxes....BUT NOT if the spending is not cut to correlate. It is immoral to continue to put the burden of this generation on to the young and the future young.

To stop global warming There is no way that global warming can be stopped. It is going to happen. It is happening. And then some day an ice age will return too.... But cutting back on oil consumption, and cutting back on our water use because we are running out, are two ADMIRABLE things that we can do for our future. The pollution alone of oil should make us want to get off of it, and the money we have spent in Iraq for oil security could have paid for all of our oil consumption in America for the next decade or two, we as citizens could have had a ZERO DOLLAR oil bill if the gvt used our money on buying it with our money verses destroying one of the most lucrative oil rich countries for 5 years with the money for goodness sakes! (And i am not really suggesting that our gvt should have done this, but just showing the extremes, with the amount of our tax dollars that have been spent in Iraq) A cleaner air and water society is not a bad thing is it?

Human rights for animals, especially primates again, i am another moderate/liberal that has no idea what you are talking about?

To stop the war in Iraq and war in general -War is an ugly thing, and war should ALWAYS BE THE ABSOLUTE LAST RESORT AND ONLY IN AN IMMINANT THREAT should we send our men and women to DIE. Period. And if you are privately religiously, as i believe you have stated, then YOU should know this.... and I will never compromise on this....sorry!

Less spending for the military - it doesn't matter what we spend on the military vs gdp, it should matter on what we are paying per citizen compared to these other countries..... And the usa, WITHOUT A DOUBT is wasting a GREAT DEAL of our tax monies on defense....3 trillion dollars MISSING from the pentegon's budget back in 2001 should tell you that....the PORK in the Defense budget is astronomical and to not recognize this is blatently being blind by choice imho....do some research....we can spend about 200 billion less a year easily, on defense, maybe even 4oo billion less and still be the strongest and most powerful nation in the world!

Public financing for political campaigns -I do believe that if we had only public financing that our elections and our elected officials would pay more attention to the needs of the individuals instead of the needs of the corporations and lobbyists. But if this is somehow, unconstitutional, then i think we should limit the campaign periods, like 3 months of campaigning, then the candidates would not need as much money as they do now.

More spending for public education - I differ with most Dems on this, I believe we do need to do more in educating our children, but i believe that each state needs to address their own educational lackings on their own.

More spending for Social Security programs. As was said earlier, if the money is paid back that the federal budget used of the social security surplus monies that they have over collected on for the las 20 years, SS will be just fine through about 2050, and after that point if absolutely no reforms at all were done, we would be able to pay everyone 75% of what was promised initially, so really only minor tweaking NEEDS to be done and SS is just fine. Medicare is what will bankrupt us as a country if something is not done to address the double digit yearly rise in healthcare costs.



Generally speaking conservatives want:

Lower taxes-everyone wants to pay less in taxes, but the democrats do not want to sell our souls to foreign countries like the Saudi's and Chinese by borrowing all of the money that our gvt spends from them and putting this burden upon our future, our children...this is immoral. Don't cut taxes unless you are willing to cut the spending, which republicans were CLEARLY NOT willing to do the 6 years they were in total control.

To uphold the sanctity of monogamous heterosexual marriage - I personally believe that marriage is between a man and a woman and that if homosexuals or lesbians want a monogomous relationship with eachother then they should be allowed a civil union, but so should 2 spinster sisters that want to tie themselves financially and legally.... :)

To end abortion-Abortion will NEVER BE ENDED, it has always been there and will always be there, no matter what you do legally to try to stop it. Focus needs to be spent at home and in church and with society in general to try to reduce the number of abortions each year. During the Clinton administration, abortions had the greatest percentage decrease from what i have read.... what was it in combination that caused this reduction? We need to find out and go from there....

Line item veto for the president on spending legislation - the line item veto is unconstitutional, we had a SC ruling on that?

Balanced budget either with or without an amendment to the Constitution
Democrats believe in a balanced budget, and pay as you go, so no problem there! :D

A public education system that works-HHere's another one, Democrats want a public education system that works! YEAH! hahahahaha! another one :)

More spending for the military- absolutely NOT, we waste billions and billions each year in this area....the waste is HUGE, the pork is HUGE in this area of our budget!

Win the war in Iraq -We won the war in Iraq already, the first few months in there! It is the occupation that we have failed at.

Privatize Social Security. It will take 2 trillion dollars to privatize SS, and continue to pay those that are on it or near getting it who paid in to it for 45 years of their lives already....where do you get that money from?

Now, is there anything that the liberals would accept from the conservative list in exchange for getting something in the liberal list? Is there anything in the liberal list that consevatives would accept in order to get something from their own list? What are you willing to trade?

and since i took the time to answer you, What about YOU, what on the democratic list that you made up as our wants, are you willing to compromise on? Or what from your list of what you think conservatives want are you willing to set aside and or compromise on? :)

jd

[flaja]

That's a silly argument of yours. I know that if I hit my thumb with a hammer it will hurt 100% of the time too. You go ahead and try it. I'll rely on past experience to dictate my decisions.


No my argument is not silly. What other than letting liberalism fail in practice will demonstrate to the American People that liberalism doesn’t work? How else are you going to convince the American People that conservatism is right?

[truthmatters]

and since i took the time to answer you, What about YOU, what on the democratic list that you made up as our wants, are you willing to compromise on? Or what from your list of what you think conservatives want are you willing to set aside and or compromise on? :)

jd

I went through and answered him too and right as I was answering the last one it all just dissapeared.

Damn I hate that and I dont even know why it does that.

[flaja]

we have a problem, a serious problem with the way our health care system functions and profits off of the sick. We have had double digit increases in the cost of health care for the last 10 years, every single year....this is wayyyyyyy over exceeding our income increases during the same period and there is absolutely no sign of this slowing down.

Why does it cost so much to run public schools? Why does college tuition go up year after year? Why do roads and bridges cost hundreds of millions of dollars? The answer is because the government is willing to pay for these things. Any business or industry that has the government as a major customer naturally raises its prices because the government (through its power to tax and borrow) has a virtually unlimited amount of money. The health care industry, with Medicare and Medicaid, is no different. If healthcare becomes an entitlement like Social Security, then the yearly price-hikes you see now will be just a drop in the bucket.

My mother has lupus and is on SSI disability, and due to her disability she is on Medicare. But because her Medicare is not age-based there is only one insurance company in the state of Florida that will write her a supplemental policy that will let her go to any hospital other than the local welfare hospital. But if she gets this supplemental policy and goes to a private hospital her cost for staying in the hospital will go from $100 a day to $315 a day- but after she finishes some surgery she will get this supplemental policy because the welfare hospital is so inept she is afraid it is going to kill her with malpractice. The last thing I want is for the government to tell everybody that they have to go to this welfare hospital just for the sake of having government help in paying their medical costs.


I personally do not believe that the proposals for a private sector Universal health care plan

Such as? The only such plans I know of are medical savings accounts and tax deductions for insurance costs- neither of which will work since medical savings accounts in my part of the country don’t pay any more than 4% a year and a tax deduction for insurance won’t mean anything to people who cannot afford insurance to begin with. If anything else is being kicked around, I’d like to know about it.

BTW: I have a plan that I posted on another board, but nobody there was interested in discussing it. When I finish here I will post it a new thread.


will solve the true problems underlying our health care system, it will BANKRUPT us as a country unless we address what has gone wrong and allowed our health care system to get sooooo out of wack regarding the pricing.

The underlying problems with our healthcare system is that Americans don’t live healthy lifestyles. Heart disease is the #1 killer in the U.S. because Americans are overweight, smoke and don’t exercise.


you say it is immoral to tax the wealthiest more to pay for what we have spent, I say it is incredibly immoral to tax more, those that are just getting by, to pay for our bills.

Do the poor consume as many public resources as the rich do? Likely not. Assuming that we all benefit equally from things like the military, criminal justice system, roads and the fire department, you have to concede that the poor get more from the public trough due to welfare spending. You need not pay taxes to personally get things like food stamps or send your children to public schools. The rich pay taxes in large amounts, but don’t qualify for food stamps due to their income and they often pay taxes to maintain public schools while they pay more in tuition to send their children to private schools. How is this fair?


Cut fricking spending or don't cut the taxes that pays the bills. And I am all for cutting taxes....BUT NOT if the spending is not cut to correlate. It is immoral to continue to put the burden of this generation on to the young and the future young.

Historically speaking and all else being equal, a cut in tax rates will lead to increased economic activity which in turn leads to higher government revenue. So if you want more money for the government to spend, cut taxes.

BTW: How do you propose that we cut government spending and still deal with the healthcare issue?


There is no way that global warming can be stopped. It is going to happen. It is happening. And then some day an ice age will return too.... But cutting back on oil consumption, and cutting back on our water use because we are running out, are two ADMIRABLE things that we can do for our future. The pollution alone of oil should make us want to get off of it,

My sentiments exactly, but man-made global warming is liberal dogma; just ask Al Gore.


and the money we have spent in Iraq for oil security

Which is zero. If we went to war in Iraq to get oil, why is gas $3 a gallon? Actually, in 2005 the U.S. got only 5% of its oil imports from Iraq and imports from Algeria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait combined made up only 22% of our oil imports. This is far less that what we got from Canada and Mexico , 33%: http://www.gravmag.com/oil.html


Human rights for animals, especially primates again, i am another moderate/liberal that has no idea what you are talking about?

Obama isn’t a liberal?

Peta isn’t a left-leaning organization?

The Green Party isn’t a left-leaning organization?

How many Earth Liberation Types will be voting for conservative candidates this year?


To stop the war in Iraq and war in general -War is an ugly thing, and war should ALWAYS BE THE ABSOLUTE LAST RESORT AND ONLY IN AN IMMINANT THREAT should we send our men and women to DIE.

At what point in history did war become the absolute last resort necessary to end slavery in America?

At what point in history did Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan become imminent threats?


Less spending for the military - it doesn't matter what we spend on the military vs gdp, it should matter on what we are paying per citizen compared to these other countries.....

Why? Why is percentage of GDP not an accurate measurement of military spending for purposes of international comparison? And why would you base military spending on the size of your population and not the threat of aggression posed by other countries?


And the usa, WITHOUT A DOUBT is wasting a GREAT DEAL of our tax monies on defense....3 trillion dollars MISSING from the pentegon's budget back in 2001 should tell you that....

Your documentation for this is what? Is no comparable amount of money ever wasted in Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, food stamps, public schools et cetera, et cetera, et cetera?


Public financing for political campaigns -I do believe that if we had only public financing that our elections and our elected officials would pay more attention to the needs of the individuals instead of the needs of the corporations and lobbyists.

Which of these political parties would you give public campaign finance to?

American Nazi Party: http://www.americannaziparty.com/

Christian Falangist Party of America: http://www.falangist.com/

Communist Party USA: http://www.cpusa.org/

Democratic Socialist of America: http://www.dsausa.org/


But if this is somehow, unconstitutional, then i think we should limit the campaign periods, like 3 months of campaigning, then the candidates would not need as much money as they do now.

I wouldn’t count on it. If a candidate can raise $100,000,000 before the next election he will spend $100,000,000 no matter how long or short a period of time you give him to spend it. And I wouldn’t personally agree to such a short campaign period. If a candidate like McCain has the behavioral problems that people in D.C. say he has (and some of his internet supports say is due to post-traumatic stress due to Nam), then I want the campaign to be as long as possible so the candidate will have maximum opportunity to make a public display of his unstable temperament. The last thing we need is someone in the Oval Office going postal.


More spending for public education - I differ with most Dems on this, I believe we do need to do more in educating our children, but i believe that each state needs to address their own educational lackings on their own.

Due to the mobility of the American People we need a national public education system. Students need to take the same subjects in the same grades regardless of what state they are in.


More spending for Social Security programs. As was said earlier, if the money is paid back that the federal budget used of the social security surplus monies that they have over collected on for the las 20 years, SS will be just fine through about 2050, and after that point if absolutely no reforms at all were done, we would be able to pay everyone 75% of what was promised initially,

75% of what was promised? When was any definite promise made? Social Security means only what the government at the moment says it means. At one time we were promised a retirement pension at age 65; now it is 67. When the original Social Security law was enacted the retirement age equaled the nation’s average life expectancy.

Also, you must remember that Social Security pays benefits to people who have paid little or nothing into the system. I have a 75 year old friend who is now is a nursing home with the government paying 2/3 of her monthly bill. She never did anything but minimum wage work but she has collected a monthly SSI disability check since she had a nervous breakdown when she was about 30. Her SSI check is around $900 a month while my mother only gets about $1,500 a month when my mother spent 34 years working 40-60 a week and paying taxes into Social Security.

Before I was born my father’s sister lost her husband in a car wreck. He was a rookie cop, but I don’t know what he would have been making. When he died my aunt had 2 children, both younger than 10 and a 3rd was on the way. Even though my aunt’s late husband had $100,000 in life insurance (worth more than a half million dollars in today’s money) and she re-married just after her 3rd child was born, she collected a Social Security orphans pension for each of her 3 children until they each turned 18. Without ever having paid a penny into the Social Security system she collected more in Social Security benefits than my mother could earn working a full time job and then some.

The Social Security system is not far by any means.


Lower taxes-everyone wants to pay less in taxes, but the democrats do not want to sell our souls to foreign countries like the Saudi's and Chinese by borrowing all of the money

Really? Then what are the Democrats who have controlled the U.S. House of Representatives for 39 of the past 51 years been doing? The Democrats had total control over spending and borrowing during this time because, according to the Constitution, all laws that spend money must originate in the House of Representatives. If the Democrats don’t want to borrow money, why do they always vote to spend more money than we have?


To uphold the sanctity of monogamous heterosexual marriage - I personally believe that marriage is between a man and a woman and that if homosexuals or lesbians want a monogomous relationship with eachother then they should be allowed a civil union, but so should 2 spinster sisters that want to tie themselves financially and legally....

What does a marriage accomplish that a civil union cannot likewise accomplish?

Do corporations not already routinely extend employee spousal benefits to persons who are not married?

Is there any American government at any level that does not extend employee spousal benefits to persons who are not married?

Is it illegal in any state for non-married people to adopt children or serve as foster parents?

Is it illegal in any state for someone to make a will and thereby give someone else an inheritance equivalent to what a spouse would receive?

Is it illegal in any state for someone to make a power of attorney that gives someone else the same rights and responsibilities a spouse would otherwise have?

If federal law cannot exempt one state from having to recognize a court-sanctioned marriage contracted in another state, how can federal law give a similar exemption for “civil unions”?

How do we protect the sanctity of marriage if we permit society to extend the benefits and responsibilities of marriage to people who are not legally married?


To end abortion-Abortion will NEVER BE ENDED, it has always been there and will always be there,

If abortion has always been there, what was Roe v. Wade all about?


During the Clinton administration, abortions had the greatest percentage decrease from what i have read

Only because our population of women of child-bearing age declined. I haven’t seen anything to say that the abortion rate declined.


Line item veto for the president on spending legislation - the line item veto is unconstitutional, we had a SC ruling on that?

Meaning that the Constitution would have to be amended.


Balanced budget either with or without an amendment to the Constitution Democrats believe in a balanced budget, and pay as you go, so no problem there!

The Democrats haven’t balanced the budget since 1969- the last year in which a Democrat-controlled House of Representatives pass a budget that didn’t have a deficit.


A public education system that works-HHere's another one, Democrats want a public education system that works! YEAH! hahahahaha! another one

Then why do they keep spending so much money on one that doesn’t?


More spending for the military- absolutely NOT, we waste billions and billions each year in this area....the waste is HUGE, the pork is HUGE in this area of our budget!

How much of this military spending would be wasted if we were to have a 9-12?


Win the war in Iraq -We won the war in Iraq already, the first few months in there! It is the occupation that we have failed at.

What’s the difference? If we pull out without stabilizing Iraq (as Democrats like Obama want us to do) how will we win the occupation?


Privatize Social Security. It will take 2 trillion dollars to privatize SS, and continue to pay those that are on it or near getting it who paid in to it for 45 years of their lives already....where do you get that money from?

You can document this?


and since i took the time to answer you, What about YOU, what on the democratic list that you made up as our wants, are you willing to compromise on? Or what from your list of what you think conservatives want are you willing to set aside and or compromise on?

I would consider reforming our healthcare system, attaining energy independence (which could deal with global warming), cutting spending (just because you claim it is a liberal goal) and spending more on public schools (to have a national public school system that has a standardized K-12 curriculum with standardized testing along with standardized teacher qualifications) in exchange for constitutional amendments to balance the budget, uphold heterosexual monogamous marriage with no civil unions or spousal benefits for non-married people and a ban on all abortion except when the mother’s life is threatened.

[flaja]

I went through and answered him too and right as I was answering the last one it all just dissapeared.

Damn I hate that and I dont even know why it does that.


You mean this is that type of board?

[Abbey Marie]

I went through and answered him too and right as I was answering the last one it all just dissapeared.

Damn I hate that and I dont even know why it does that.

If I take too long to write, I get logged out and my draft post disappears. I've learned to copy the post into memory/the clipboard before hitting 'post', so that I can easily recover it when that happens.

[glockmail]

No my argument is not silly. What other than letting liberalism fail in practice will demonstrate to the American People that liberalism doesn’t work? How else are you going to convince the American People that conservatism is right?
Liberalism has failed in practice whenever it has been tried. The former Soviet Union is a spectacular example. France is another. The US Social Security Adminstration is another.

Conservatism, on the other hand, has been a sucess whenever it has been tried. Examples are lowering taxes, welfare reform, and the US Military.

Your proposed experiment goes against sound principle; in fact goes against logic and scientific principle. You don't experiment with something that doesn't work to prove that the opposite would be better.

[flaja]

Liberalism has failed in practice whenever it has been tried.

Then why haven’t the American People gone running en masse to the conservative camp thereby destroying even the last vestiges of liberalism? You say you won’t compromise with liberals. You say you want to win the war of ideas. But you’ve yet to explain just you intend to win that war. In the meantime you are content to let national problems fester.

[glockmail]

Then why haven’t the American People gone running en masse to the conservative camp thereby destroying even the last vestiges of liberalism? You say you won’t compromise with liberals. You say you want to win the war of ideas. But you’ve yet to explain just you intend to win that war. In the meantime you are content to let national problems fester. I ain't king, man. If I was 80% of the the Federal guv'mint would be out in the street.

[manu1959]

Then why haven’t the American People gone running en masse to the conservative camp thereby destroying even the last vestiges of liberalism? You say you won’t compromise with liberals. You say you want to win the war of ideas. But you’ve yet to explain just you intend to win that war. In the meantime you are content to let national problems fester.

what country are you from?

[glockmail]

france? :lol:

[manu1959]

france? :lol:

seriously?.......not that there is anything wrong with that......

[glockmail]

I like France now, actually. They've got a good PM, finally. I think they may be coming to their senses- after only about 100,000 car burnings.

[flaja]

I ain't king, man. If I was 80% of the the Federal guv'mint would be out in the street.


You still haven’t answered my question: How do you intend to win the war of ideas?

[flaja]

what country are you from?

You must be one of them libertarian types- as long as you personally have as much as you want, you are too naïve to realize that we do have national problems.

[glockmail]

You still haven’t answered my question: How do you intend to win the war of ideas?Post 44.

[flaja]

Post 44.


And #44 would attract American to the conservative cause how? If you shut down 80% of the federal government, the American People would have you swinging from the nearest tree.

[manu1959]

You must be one of them libertarian types- as long as you personally have as much as you want, you are too naïve to realize that we do have national problems.

well then why don't you educate me.....

give me the top five national problems and their solutions....

[glockmail]

And #44 would attract American to the conservative cause how? If you shut down 80% of the federal government, the American People would have you swinging from the nearest tree. Correction: the Democrats would want me swinging from a tree, jus like they used to do to blacks.

[truthmatters]

If I take too long to write, I get logged out and my draft post disappears. I've learned to copy the post into memory/the clipboard before hitting 'post', so that I can easily recover it when that happens.


I didnt get logged out it just dissapears. It has happen to me more than once.

I go to post a link in it and all of the sudden I notice all the links and typed answers are just gone.

I would really like to figure out what I ma doing wrong but it makes no sense as It is working just fine and then when Im almost finished Blam its all gone.

Its so frustrating.

It part of the reason I used to post the answers to each question individually but then I realized that was against the rules.

Hey I just figured out how to get arround it. I will use the edit mode.

[flaja]

well then why don't you educate me.....

give me the top five national problems and their solutions....


Education: impose standards on private schools and create a national public school system that puts parents in charge of managing individual schools.

Energy: conserve what we have and implement environmentally sustainable alternatives.

The loss of local economic autonomy: apply anti-trust laws to Wal-Mart and Home Depot and stop cheap imports from hostile countries like Red China.

Healthcare: Solution pending.

The national debt: balance the budget.

[Abbey Marie]

I didnt get logged out it just dissapears. It has happen to me more than once.

I go to post a link in it and all of the sudden I notice all the links and typed answers are just gone.

I would really like to figure out what I ma doing wrong but it makes no sense as It is working just fine and then when Im almost finished Blam its all gone.

Its so frustrating.

It part of the reason I used to post the answers to each question individually but then I realized that was against the rules.

Hey I just figured out how to get arround it. I will use the edit mode.

Again, just select your whole post, and hit Ctrl-C before you hit "Post" or "Preview" . Then you can recall the entire thing if it disappears. It has save me from shouting bad words at the monitor on many occassions!