Katrina revisited -- It's not what I thought

[gabosaurus]

My husband and I were invited to reception of sorts for a guy who has done a ton of research of what happened before, during and after Hurricane Katrina. Threw a ton of curve balls at me and made me rethink some of my previous conclusions.

First of all, the guy is totally apolitical. He's a researcher.
His first observation (explained exceptionally well) -- Bush is essentially blameless. He counted on his staff (FEMA and Homeland Security) to keep him up to date, and they let him down. In fact, Bush's much criticized trip to San Diego came after he was assured that the situation was under control.
Bush actually did more to help the situation that most people realize. He made several attempts to clear up the FEMA mess (through federal aid and military intervention). All were rejected by Kathleen Blanco, stupid governor of Louisiana.
In appreciation for his efforts, Bush became the blame target for Blanco, Ray Nagin and Michael Brown.

Blanco is most responsible for the extent of the tragedy. Apparently, she had political aspirations beyond being governor and felt accepting federal aid would make her look "weak."
I was astounded as to the extent of her ignorance -- Refusing federal intervention, refusing aid from the Red Cross, ignoring requests from city leaders, turning down efforts by Mississippi and Alabama to coordinate aid efforts.
Example: Amtrak had two large trains in the New Orleans area immediately prior to the storm hitting. They offered to fill both trains with refugees and take them out of harms way. Blanco turned them down, so both trains left empty.
Same with several bus lines. They offered to come in and transport refugees. Blanco said that New Orleans transport would do the job. When, in actuality, buses in N.O. (like the famous picture of the buses sitting in water) had no drivers or gas.

Michael Brown was totally unprepared to handle the situation. After being demoted from cabinet-level post, FEMA was understaffed, underfunded and run by an idiot.
As expected, he totally botched the situation. His superiors rarely knew what was going on until later.

Also (DP will LOVE this one!), the news media made a bad situation a lot worse. Instead of going out and reporting what was actually going on, the majority of the major media sat in a command post and reported hear say.
Example: The morning that the levees breached, the media only reported that water in New Orleans central was going down. This was interpreted in Washington as a sign that things were getting better, not worse.
Exceptions were the New Orleans Picayune and the Dallas Morning News, which actually had reporters out in the field. Which is why they won Pulitzer Prizes, I suppose.

Nagin is far from blameless. As mayor, he knew that close to 30 percent of the city's population had no transportation. He also should have known that, with Katrina striking near the end of the month, many workers and pensioners had little to no money. Since they expected to be paid in a few days.
Nagin ordered an evacuation without dealing with transporting those without such means. He was too stubborn to work out his problems with the state and federal government, which delayed aid efforts endlessly.

SUMMARY: I lost one more major fuckup that I can blame on Bush. Dang it all anyway...

[Kathianne]

Gabby, it took a 'source' you personally trusted to get you to the truth that most of us could reach by understanding the 'federated' in 'Federal Republic', but it takes a good person to write publicly what you did.

:clap::clap:

[stephanie]

gotta agree with Kat, kudos to you Gabs...:clap:

[Trigg]

Gabby, if you keep this us we're going to have to have a "Welcome to the Dark Side" party for ya.

Your completely right the blaim lay with Nagin and Blanco.

The Times Picayune had actually done a story about the leves not being able to withstand a hurricane higher than Cat 3 years prior. The city gov. should have been prepaired.

[Hobbit]

Ummmm, who are you and what have you done with Gabby?

In all seriousness, good job. It's awfully big of you to admit this.

[truthmatters]

Im glad to hear Bush did try to help.

He did however PICK Brownie and then said he was doing a great job.

[hjmick]

Well done Gaby.

Funny thing, I was making these exact same arguments (and a few others) on another message board (mostly liberal leaning) shortly after Katrina and I was slammed as a hack for Bush. I even had facts and numbers to back up my arguments, but it didn't matter.

For me, this is one of the most indelible images of Katrina:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/hjmc3rd/school_buses.jpg

[Monkeybone]

it's ok Gabs. better to take it back and be an adult about it that plug your ears and go "NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA!!"


Im glad to hear Bush did try to help.

He did however PICK Brownie and then said he was doing a great job.

:clap: there had be a post from someone against bush.

you know..even though it said
He counted on his staff (FEMA and Homeland Security) to keep him up to date, and they let him down. In fact, Bush's much criticized trip to San Diego came after he was assured that the situation was under control.

start letting it go TM....you can only speak out against him so much before we all think that you are a crazie....oh wait...n/m

[Gaffer]

I repped gabby for this one. She set aside the BDS and looked at things from a real perspective, then admitted she was mistaken. Once you step back from the trees you CAN see the forest.

[JohnDoe]

My husband and I were invited to reception of sorts for a guy who has done a ton of research of what happened before, during and after Hurricane Katrina. Threw a ton of curve balls at me and made me rethink some of my previous conclusions.

First of all, the guy is totally apolitical. He's a researcher.
His first observation (explained exceptionally well) -- Bush is essentially blameless. He counted on his staff (FEMA and Homeland Security) to keep him up to date, and they let him down. In fact, Bush's much criticized trip to San Diego came after he was assured that the situation was under control.
Bush actually did more to help the situation that most people realize. He made several attempts to clear up the FEMA mess (through federal aid and military intervention). All were rejected by Kathleen Blanco, stupid governor of Louisiana.
In appreciation for his efforts, Bush became the blame target for Blanco, Ray Nagin and Michael Brown.

Blanco is most responsible for the extent of the tragedy. Apparently, she had political aspirations beyond being governor and felt accepting federal aid would make her look "weak."
I was astounded as to the extent of her ignorance -- Refusing federal intervention, refusing aid from the Red Cross, ignoring requests from city leaders, turning down efforts by Mississippi and Alabama to coordinate aid efforts.
Example: Amtrak had two large trains in the New Orleans area immediately prior to the storm hitting. They offered to fill both trains with refugees and take them out of harms way. Blanco turned them down, so both trains left empty.
Same with several bus lines. They offered to come in and transport refugees. Blanco said that New Orleans transport would do the job. When, in actuality, buses in N.O. (like the famous picture of the buses sitting in water) had no drivers or gas.

Michael Brown was totally unprepared to handle the situation. After being demoted from cabinet-level post, FEMA was understaffed, underfunded and run by an idiot.
As expected, he totally botched the situation. His superiors rarely knew what was going on until later.

Also (DP will LOVE this one!), the news media made a bad situation a lot worse. Instead of going out and reporting what was actually going on, the majority of the major media sat in a command post and reported hear say.
Example: The morning that the levees breached, the media only reported that water in New Orleans central was going down. This was interpreted in Washington as a sign that things were getting better, not worse.
Exceptions were the New Orleans Picayune and the Dallas Morning News, which actually had reporters out in the field. Which is why they won Pulitzer Prizes, I suppose.

Nagin is far from blameless. As mayor, he knew that close to 30 percent of the city's population had no transportation. He also should have known that, with Katrina striking near the end of the month, many workers and pensioners had little to no money. Since they expected to be paid in a few days.
Nagin ordered an evacuation without dealing with transporting those without such means. He was too stubborn to work out his problems with the state and federal government, which delayed aid efforts endlessly.

SUMMARY: I lost one more major fuckup that I can blame on Bush. Dang it all anyway...

Thank you for this thread Gabby...it compelled me to do some research to see what actually was the nitty gritty being said "out there on the grapevine" about the entire Katrina event, which i admit, i did not pay much attention to the political sides at the time other than buffered hearings of pointing fingers....which i ended up ignoring....too much was going on in my personal life at the time....

Anyway, i googled it, came across a timeline article on FACTCHECK.ORG...

you might want to read it...some things really differ with what your friend has said... like it was not Blanco that was alledgedlycontacted by AMTRAK, Amtrak said that they contacted Nagin before the last train on sunday left, which was near empty, however Nagin said that he was never contacted by AMTRAK at all and that he WISHED that Amtrak had contacted him as they claim.

And a number of other things were offbase a little....?

So, who should i believe? :salute::dunno: Your friend or FACTCHECK.ORG who has all of this documented with article after article from reputable (enough ;) ) news sources?

Though the conclusion that President Bush may not have been to blame for all of this could be accurate too, other than being commander and chief and picking Cherkoff..."Brownie" may not have been the culprit either....i just haven't finished reading the entire link yet, so i don't want to prejudge that yet....need to finish the timeline thingy.... :)

http://www.factcheck.org/article348.html

jd

[Kathianne]

Good site JD. Problem with this though:


8:30 p.m. - An empty Amtrak train leaves New Orleans, with room for several hundred potential evacuees. "We offered the city the opportunity to take evacuees out of harm's way…The city declined," said Amtrak spokesman Cliff Black. The train left New Orleans no passengers on board.

—Susan Glasser, " The Steady Buildup to a City's Chaos," The Washington Post, 11 Sept 2005.

Two weeks later, Nagin denies on NBC's Meet the Press that Amtrak offered their services. "Amtrak never contacted me to make that offer," the mayor tells host Tim Russert. "I have never gotten that call, Tim, and I would love to have had that call. But it never happened."

—"Interview with Mayor Nagin," Meet the Press, NBC, 11 Sept 2005.

At that time I don't think the Amtrack really had to cover their butt, Nagin? Considering the time that has elasped, I think this person did a good job at remembering details. I doubt he came to dinner to sell a side to Gabby.

[Monkeybone]

Good site JD. Problem with this though:



At that time I don't think the Amtrack really had to cover their butt, Nagin? Considering the time that has elasped, I think this person did a good job at remembering details. I doubt he came to dinner to sell a side to Gabby.

exactly what i was thinking. sorta one of those things where ya go "Well what do you think he would've said?" would be public/political suicide to say that he refused them.

[5stringJeff]

Gabby, we just did a big study on the government's response to Katrina in our public administration law class, and came to many of the same conclusions. However, one thing I found interesting is that Michael Brown was intending to resign from FEMA after Labor Day, because he was tired of the runaround that he felt FEMA had received after being merged into DHS.

[gabosaurus]

Sometimes you sell yourself on a point of view and never allow yourself to waver from it. It takes something like this to set you straight.
I am not Roger Clemens. When I am wrong, I don't hire lawyers to deny it. Sometimes, you just have to suck it up admit it.
I do so here because I know I have made wrongful allegation about Bush's involvement on this board. Only right to offer a correction.

The bus and train debacle is one of the many things that Blanco and Nagin blamed on each other. I am still mystified at how Nagin pulled the wool over enough people's eyes to get re-elected.
Stories about FEMA's incompetence: A group of trained airboat drivers showed up ready to hit the streets, looking for survivors. FEMA wanted to see their "paper work." Where were their work orders? They were all sidelined for two days.
Same with bus loads of workers who arrived with chain saws and other heavy duty equipment. FEMA wanted them to be "licensed to work in the state." They needed to apply for work permits. They turned out and went home.

Blanco and Nagin both complained why Mississippi got federal aid quicker than New Orleans did. They blamed it on politics.
Real reason: The Mississippi governor requested aid through proper channels within 24 hours. Blanco just sat around and bitched at everyone.

[Monkeybone]

Sometimes you sell yourself on a point of view and never allow yourself to waver from it. It takes something like this to set you straight.
I am not Roger Clemens. When I am wrong, I don't hire lawyers to deny it. Sometimes, you just have to suck it up admit it.
I do so here because I know I have made wrongful allegation about Bush's involvement on this board. Only right to offer a correction.

The bus and train debacle is one of the many things that Blanco and Nagin blamed on each other. I am still mystified at how Nagin pulled the wool over enough people's eyes to get re-elected.
Stories about FEMA's incompetence: A group of trained airboat drivers showed up ready to hit the streets, looking for survivors. FEMA wanted to see their "paper work." Where were their work orders? They were all sidelined for two days.
Same with bus loads of workers who arrived with chain saws and other heavy duty equipment. FEMA wanted them to be "licensed to work in the state." They needed to apply for work permits. They turned out and went home.

Blanco and Nagin both complained why Mississippi got federal aid quicker than New Orleans did. They blamed it on politics.
Real reason: The Mississippi governor requested aid through proper channels within 24 hours. Blanco just sat around and bitched at everyone.


that happened with a group of our Conservation Officers Gabs. They had search boats and everything. but they were stopped by FEMA. so some local cops helped them 'make it around' the 'lines' it was ridicoulaculcauclaous

[gabosaurus]

I remember being at the Houston Astrodome and listening to people talk. For every angry horror story, there were nine that were thankful.
One I remember vividly was an older woman talking about the conditions inside the Louisiana Superdome.
"Yes, it was horrible. There were 20,000 people with little food, fewer supplies, non-working toilets and no AC in 90-degree heat. I told my son and daughter -- would you rather be outside? You are miserable in here. Outside, you would be dead."
Makes you think a bit.

[Kathianne]

that happened with a group of our Conservation Officers Gabs. They had search boats and everything. but they were stopped by FEMA. so some local cops helped them 'make it around' the 'lines' it was ridicoulaculcauclaous

Your post brings to mind that among the real heroes of Katrina, was the Coast Guard! http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/05/AR2005090501418.html


Coast Guard's Response to Katrina a Silver Lining in the Storm

By Stephen Barr
Tuesday, September 6, 2005; B02

Let's have a round of cheers for the U.S. Coast Guard.

Hurricane Katrina wiped out Coast Guard stations in Gulfport and Pascagoula, Miss., and looters wrecked part of its New Orleans base. But that did not stop the Coast Guard from sending out rescue helicopters and cutters on dangerous and exhausting missions to save lives and clear waterways after the hurricane ravaged the Gulf Coast on Aug. 29.

"We started the night that the storm hit," Jason Shepard , a Coast Guard rescue swimmer, said yesterday in an interview from Mobile, Ala., one of the agency's staging bases for Katrina.

Shepard, who carries the formal title of aviation survival technician first class and has served in the Coast Guard for 18 years, called the Katrina rescue effort "probably the biggest thing that has happened in our careers."

Coast Guard crews have rescued 22,000 people in Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama, Petty Officer Andrew Kendrick , a Coast Guard spokesman in St. Louis, estimated yesterday.

The Coast Guard, in many ways, is a model agency. It is relatively small -- with about 45,000 uniformed and civilian employees -- and believes in "cross-training" so that each employee can perform more than one job.

It also is a part of the Department of Homeland Security, and the Coast Guard's response to Katrina in recent days has again illuminated the importance of capable leadership and a clear chain of command in agencies during a crisis. Hopefully, as Congress moves to probe how the government handled the Katrina crisis, the Coast Guard can serve as a model for fixing what's wrong elsewhere in Homeland Security, including what many perceive as poor leadership at the Federal Emergency Management Agency.

Coast Guard Lt. Cmdr. Jim Elliott , who is helping oversee rescues from Mobile, said the agency set up a unified command with states and local industries before the hurricane roared ashore.

"We know how to join with other organizations to get the job done," he said. "We were out the door as soon as the winds died down."

Elliott has been getting by on three to four hours of sleep each day for the past week. Shepard said rescue operations are running round-the-clock, with crews working "anywhere from six- to 18-hour missions, depending on what was going on."

The work is demanding. Rescue crews that normally would be asked to pluck about 20 people from danger on a tough day have been "doing 100 to 120 hoists" in adverse conditions that include heat and humidity and exposure to contaminated water kicked up by chopper rotors, Shepard said.

The work is hazardous. Pilots have had to hover between electrical and phone wires and drop cables from heights of 10 to 180 feet, Shepard said.

....

[No1tovote4]

Wow, it is nice to have a source so studied to agree so readily with what I have said since it happened.

[Abbey Marie]

Indeed. I have been saying this since it happened:


Bush actually did more to help the situation that most people realize. He made several attempts to clear up the FEMA mess (through federal aid and military intervention). All were rejected by Kathleen Blanco, stupid governor of Louisiana.

[Mr. P]

I think our lil girl is growing up! Nice, Gab! :cheers2:

Next LN! In 6 more yrs maybe.

[gabosaurus]

It's good to hear the truth based on factual evidence and not on opinion.

[Mr. P]

It's good to hear the truth based on factual evidence and not on opinion.

I've seen all the evidence you mentioned presented with documentation, and it was still called false by most BUSH bashers..

[Nukeman]

I've seen all the evidence you mentioned presented with documentation, and it was still called false by most BUSH bashers..
Can anyone say "truthmatters"........:poke: