Why we need to fund youth programs

[gabosaurus]

The basic premise of a report that I am drafting. DP gets to be the test audience. Especially since I have stolen ideas from this forum. :)


Youth programs should be expanded instead of cut. Because the youth of today are the adults of tomorrow. It is up to us to help decide whether they become productive citizens or criminals. If there is a "No Child Left Behind" program for education, there should be a similar program for kids outside the educational system.
There are a great many kids who, through no fault of their own, are the product of one-parent or no-parent households. A bit of guidance at an early age can prevent these kids from falling through the cracks and into criminal behavior.
Part of Los Angeles used to have a "midnight basketball" program. As a way to cut down gang activity, basketball courts and activities were staffed and open 24 hours on weekends and non-school days. The rules were no violence, no colors and no disruptive behavior. During the time the program was in operation, violence involving teens dropped 50 to 70 percent.
Eventually, funding was cut and the programs were dropped. The rates of violence and criminal activity went back up. Coincidence?

There are a lot of past programs that could be very helpful if restored. One is the "teen prison" program. Teens were placed in actual prisons. Not in cells with actual prisoners. But in the same cell blocks, separated only by bars. Tough-talking and acting kids change their tune quickly spending 48 hours in a state prison, where they get an earful from hardened prisoners. Of the kids who were tracked, 70 percent never got arrested again.
My brother-in-law does "gang awareness" presentations. His intention is not to talk kids out of joining gangs, but to present the whole truth about what happens in gangs. It's not TV or Hollywood. His program involves photos and video shot by gang members and seized by police in raids. Kids (usually middle school age) get to see real drive-by shootings, ambushes, beat-ins and gang rapes. They see pictures of big shot gang members, in life and in death.

There are many people who think they are immune from the problems of gangs and teen violence. Who do you think sells drugs to your kids? Holds up your convenience stores? Steals your cars?
One story my brother-in-law told me was of a 19-year-old guy. College freshman, lived in a nice upper middle class suburban neighborhood with his parents and two siblings.
Unfortunately, the guy had run up a drug debt to some unsavory characters. So he skipped town rather than pay the debt. The gang didn't care. They firebombed his house and killed members of his family.

It's up to lawmakers to decide how to spend their money. They can fund youth programs now, or they can hire more police and build more prisons later.
Think the additional taxes will cost you too much money? How much does it cost to bury one of your kids?

[Kathianne]

....
One story my brother-in-law told me was of a 19-year-old guy. College freshman, lived in a nice upper middle class suburban neighborhood with his parents and two siblings.
Unfortunately, the guy had run up a drug debt to some unsavory characters. So he skipped town rather than pay the debt. The gang didn't care. They firebombed his house and killed members of his family.

It's up to lawmakers to decide how to spend their money. They can fund youth programs now, or they can hire more police and build more prisons later.
Think the additional taxes will cost you too much money? How much does it cost to bury one of your kids?

Well that 19 year old guy probably had plenty to do when he was young and a teenager, didn't help him avoid bad choices and act without concern for those who provided all those opportunities wasted.

Now don't get me wrong, I think kids need mentors; I'll even go to the worse the socioeconomic factors the greater the need. With that said, rarely does just throwing money at the problem help. Rather when the solutions come from a community, neighborhood, church, or school for ideas of tutoring, after school programs, summer camps, late night intramurals, etc., they often will provide volunteers, the city may throw in some seed money.

On the other hand, rarely do park districts or 'grant projects' get off the ground for long. Why? Seldom are the adults there long, just until another project comes along.

[5stringJeff]

Gabby, as long as the dollars come from state and/or local taxes, fine. I don't think federal money should be spent on such programs.

[gabosaurus]

Rather when the solutions come from a community, neighborhood, church, or school for ideas of tutoring, after school programs, summer camps, late night intramurals, etc., they often will provide volunteers, the city may throw in some seed money.

You are approaching this from a middle class viewpoint, where there actually are after school programs, summer camps and people with the time to serve as volunteers.
If you are a single parent with one or two jobs, you don't have time to volunteer for anything. You barely have time for your kids.

If you put together programs and pay people to run them, they will succeed. The kids will come, because they have no other places to go.

If you ever visit Los Angeles, go to Echo Park. Used to be one of the most run down, gang-infested areas of town. The city got a federal grant, torn down some slum housing and created a large park. They build a huge recreation center.
Echo Park is still primarily Mexican and Asian, still primarily poor. But it is 100 percent safer than it used to be.

[gabosaurus]

Gabby, as long as the dollars come from state and/or local taxes, fine. I don't think federal money should be spent on such programs.

Where should federal money go to? Funding wars? Giving tax breaks to huge corporations?

[JohnDoe]

And why wouldn't the state that has the problems be the one to fund this instead of taking federal money from other states that may not have the same problems with their youth, but need their money spent on taking care of an over abundance of homeless elderly in their state?

I realize that SOME of these programs can help a community with a youth delinquency problem, though i am really not certain you are really addressing the problem, which is unemployment and lack of parenting.

We made our own after school programs when i was a kid, it was called little league and baseball and softball and tag football and basketball and stick ball in the city and girlscouts and ballet and modern dance classes and boyscouts and summer camp and fishing and family vacations....

I realize that things have changed a great deal since then, many women are not stay at home moms as my mother was back then and most all the moms on the street were back then....(I know i am dating myself) And that it takes two incomes for most families to get along now a days and things can't go back to the way they were in my youth but i still think that these issues are best handled locally, where those most involved have a stake in the results and the money being spent.

And i don't even think you touched on this in your thoughts above, but it is something to consider in the whole picture of delinquency imo gabby.

[Kathianne]

You are approaching this from a middle class viewpoint, where there actually are after school programs, summer camps and people with the time to serve as volunteers.
If you are a single parent with one or two jobs, you don't have time to volunteer for anything. You barely have time for your kids.

If you put together programs and pay people to run them, they will succeed. The kids will come, because they have no other places to go.

If you ever visit Los Angeles, go to Echo Park. Used to be one of the most run down, gang-infested areas of town. The city got a federal grant, torn down some slum housing and created a large park. They build a huge recreation center.
Echo Park is still primarily Mexican and Asian, still primarily poor. But it is 100 percent safer than it used to be.
Actually there are few 'volunteers' for kid activities in the 'burbs. I have a 'drama' club for 5-8th graders. 22 of them. For the year: $300 plus costumes.

Cheerleading, same cost.

Cooking Club same cost.

Park district programs, 1X a week for 7 weeks: $76-96.

Traveling teams double the cost of school clubs, minimum.

The people have it and pay for it. Do we have good parks, yes. Swimming pool passes for the summer, (no indoor pools other than 'clubs'): $260 for family; $110 for students. 5 free days per summer, with proof of residency.

What is 100% safer? No crime? I doubt that. Oh, btw don't be fooled by great buildings, those do not make a program or a school. Sometimes good things are done in places that may not look so hot.

[Dilloduck]

The basic premise of a report that I am drafting. DP gets to be the test audience. Especially since I have stolen ideas from this forum. :)


Youth programs should be expanded instead of cut. Because the youth of today are the adults of tomorrow. It is up to us to help decide whether they become productive citizens or criminals. If there is a "No Child Left Behind" program for education, there should be a similar program for kids outside the educational system.
There are a great many kids who, through no fault of their own, are the product of one-parent or no-parent households. A bit of guidance at an early age can prevent these kids from falling through the cracks and into criminal behavior.
Part of Los Angeles used to have a "midnight basketball" program. As a way to cut down gang activity, basketball courts and activities were staffed and open 24 hours on weekends and non-school days. The rules were no violence, no colors and no disruptive behavior. During the time the program was in operation, violence involving teens dropped 50 to 70 percent.
Eventually, funding was cut and the programs were dropped. The rates of violence and criminal activity went back up. Coincidence?

There are a lot of past programs that could be very helpful if restored. One is the "teen prison" program. Teens were placed in actual prisons. Not in cells with actual prisoners. But in the same cell blocks, separated only by bars. Tough-talking and acting kids change their tune quickly spending 48 hours in a state prison, where they get an earful from hardened prisoners. Of the kids who were tracked, 70 percent never got arrested again.
My brother-in-law does "gang awareness" presentations. His intention is not to talk kids out of joining gangs, but to present the whole truth about what happens in gangs. It's not TV or Hollywood. His program involves photos and video shot by gang members and seized by police in raids. Kids (usually middle school age) get to see real drive-by shootings, ambushes, beat-ins and gang rapes. They see pictures of big shot gang members, in life and in death.

There are many people who think they are immune from the problems of gangs and teen violence. Who do you think sells drugs to your kids? Holds up your convenience stores? Steals your cars?
One story my brother-in-law told me was of a 19-year-old guy. College freshman, lived in a nice upper middle class suburban neighborhood with his parents and two siblings.
Unfortunately, the guy had run up a drug debt to some unsavory characters. So he skipped town rather than pay the debt. The gang didn't care. They firebombed his house and killed members of his family.

It's up to lawmakers to decide how to spend their money. They can fund youth programs now, or they can hire more police and build more prisons later.
Think the additional taxes will cost you too much money? How much does it cost to bury one of your kids?

How is scaring kids and providing them with entertainment going to prepare them for the adult world ?

[Mr. P]

The basic premise of a report that I am drafting. DP gets to be the test audience. Especially since I have stolen ideas from this forum. :)


Youth programs should be expanded instead of cut. Because the youth of today are the adults of tomorrow. It is up to us to help decide whether they become productive citizens or criminals. If there is a "No Child Left Behind" program for education, there should be a similar program for kids outside the educational system.
There are a great many kids who, through no fault of their own, are the product of one-parent or no-parent households. A bit of guidance at an early age can prevent these kids from falling through the cracks and into criminal behavior.
Part of Los Angeles used to have a "midnight basketball" program. As a way to cut down gang activity, basketball courts and activities were staffed and open 24 hours on weekends and non-school days. The rules were no violence, no colors and no disruptive behavior. During the time the program was in operation, violence involving teens dropped 50 to 70 percent.
Eventually, funding was cut and the programs were dropped. The rates of violence and criminal activity went back up. Coincidence?

There are a lot of past programs that could be very helpful if restored. One is the "teen prison" program. Teens were placed in actual prisons. Not in cells with actual prisoners. But in the same cell blocks, separated only by bars. Tough-talking and acting kids change their tune quickly spending 48 hours in a state prison, where they get an earful from hardened prisoners. Of the kids who were tracked, 70 percent never got arrested again.
My brother-in-law does "gang awareness" presentations. His intention is not to talk kids out of joining gangs, but to present the whole truth about what happens in gangs. It's not TV or Hollywood. His program involves photos and video shot by gang members and seized by police in raids. Kids (usually middle school age) get to see real drive-by shootings, ambushes, beat-ins and gang rapes. They see pictures of big shot gang members, in life and in death.

There are many people who think they are immune from the problems of gangs and teen violence. Who do you think sells drugs to your kids? Holds up your convenience stores? Steals your cars?
One story my brother-in-law told me was of a 19-year-old guy. College freshman, lived in a nice upper middle class suburban neighborhood with his parents and two siblings.
Unfortunately, the guy had run up a drug debt to some unsavory characters. So he skipped town rather than pay the debt. The gang didn't care. They firebombed his house and killed members of his family.

It's up to lawmakers to decide how to spend their money. They can fund youth programs now, or they can hire more police and build more prisons later.
Think the additional taxes will cost you too much money? How much does it cost to bury one of your kids?

Here's another dose of reality, Gab. You can create as many programs as you can find the money for but if a kid doesn't want to participate they ain't gonna do it. In other words, you can lead a horse to water but......you know the rest.

[Mr. P]

How is scaring kids and providing them with entertianment going to prepare them for the adult world ?

I was thinking WTF does tossing a kid into jail for a few hrs have to do with "after school" programs?

[Dilloduck]

I was thinking WTF does tossing a kid into jail for a few hrs have to do with "after school" programs?

It's liberal-think

[JohnDoe]

It's liberal-thinkno, actually, it was Gabby-think.

jd

[Dilloduck]

no, actually, it was Gabby-think.

jd

you're right !!! --I'm guilty of the same shit I spout. Good catch. ty

[5stringJeff]

Where should federal money go to? Funding wars? Giving tax breaks to huge corporations?

Social Security and Medicare, our two great entitlement programs (thanks, FDR and LBJ) eat up the majority of the federal budget. I'd be happy with using federal funds to fix those two programs (read: privatize SS and reduce Medicaid/Medicare coverage) first, and pay down the national debt, before I'd dream of giving money to LA to throw teenagers in overcrowded jails.

[82Marine89]

It's up to lawmakers to decide how to spend their money. They can fund youth programs now, or they can hire more police and build more prisons later.
Think the additional taxes will cost you too much money? How much does it cost to bury one of your kids?

Their money? How about my money?

[gabosaurus]

I am not proposing federal funds to pay for programs in Los Angeles. I am talking funding of a nationwide series of programs. The cost would be extremely minimal, compared with the many other programs in existence.
Take Kathianne's "expenses" for programs in her area. If you can barely afford food and rent, I doubt you are going to spend money for cheerleading and drama club.
JohnDoe talks about programs that all require facilities and parental involvement. Kind of difficult to pull off if there is a shortage of parents.

Why spend the money? It's an investment in the future. Give kids something to do and they will do it.
If a kid has a TV, a computer, a ton of video/computer games and other such diversions, chances are that they might not go to the park.
If a kid has none of the above, they probably will go to the park. If there are no parks or playgrounds, they go to the streets. A bunch of bored kids gathered in the street is not going to produce anything positive.

I realize that you don't understand the principle. You were not raised in that type of environment, and chances are you haven't met many people who were.

You people are thinking about money. I am thinking about kids.

[Kathianne]

I am not proposing federal funds to pay for programs in Los Angeles. I am talking funding of a nationwide series of programs. The cost would be extremely minimal, compared with the many other programs in existence.
Take Kathianne's "expenses" for programs in her area. If you can barely afford food and rent, I doubt you are going to spend money for cheerleading and drama club.
JohnDoe talks about programs that all require facilities and parental involvement. Kind of difficult to pull off if there is a shortage of parents.

Why spend the money? It's an investment in the future. Give kids something to do and they will do it.
If a kid has a TV, a computer, a ton of video/computer games and other such diversions, chances are that they might not go to the park.
If a kid has none of the above, they probably will go to the park. If there are no parks or playgrounds, they go to the streets. A bunch of bored kids gathered in the street is not going to produce anything positive.

I realize that you don't understand the principle. You were not raised in that type of environment, and chances are you haven't met many people who were.

You people are thinking about money. I am thinking about kids.
Gabby, I think you are missing the points I was making. First I sounded much like John Doe, then you tried to say, 'You are seeing it through middle class neighborhoods', like our tax dollars provide what our kids get, no I never thought that, for it isn't true. Which why I wrote the second post, which now you act as though I was saying that is what poor kids should pay, which I never was.

In fact, you seem to be under a misunderstanding of what suburban kids get for their parents tax dollars. Which for the discussion, is neither here nor there.

Getting back to my first post, I AGREED with the programs; not the means of getting there, at least not exactly. Now in your most recent post, you are dismissive of many that make up the neighborhoods. There are many service programs aimed at kids 12-18 in most inner cities, especially Church run. They are not only helping others, they are developing self-esteem.

Now I believe you have your social work degree? One of mine was in sociology, seems I remember some seminal studies dealing with the underlying attractions to gangs; a need to 'belong' and a need to feel 'empowered' came way ahead of sports and such-otherwise they would have stayed in school or the park playing, rather than gang banging. The gangs took the place of absent or horrifically ineffectual families, (which doesn't mean that all gangbangers had these situations).

What desperate kids need more than a BB court, (not that isn't need), is at least 1 caring adult that can introduce them to their own power to see a future. What you dismissed as 'middle class', is that is traditionally what the suburbs have offered. If parents were negligent or just indifferent to their child(ren), the schools and the neighbors have traditionally been there to fill the gap, (not always, but often).

Again referring to my first post, the park district or a 'grant established' program is less likely to perform the necessary mentoring, regardless of the education of the workers or the quality of the building and offerings. The simple reason is that for the first it's a job, usually while in school; for the latter it's a project, with the likelihood of hiring active gangbangers as mentors. It's happened over and over again, has been since the 1970's.

Privately and locally initiated programs tend to be volunteer based. Often in these church or community programs you'll find 'former' gang members committed to participating and able to relate to the attraction. There are many caring older folks and very concerned parents in these neighborhoods too, often unemployed or under employed, while they may or may not have the skills for tutoring, they are able and willing to help. As I also said, once a program is in place and attracting some participation from the children, the cities will usually help out financially to some degree at providing services like tutors, equipment, police protection and liaisons, to help build better neighborhood relations.

As Jeff said earlier, I don't think the federal government has a great record or the responsibility of funding such programs. The state of Illinois has a horrible record, in fact when attempted has managed to create super gangs. The city has the best record, but it still fails to pass in a leading roll. However, in a supporting roll, the money helps.

[avatar4321]

how about we have parents actually take care of their children? Saves money.

[Kathianne]

how about we have parents actually take care of their children? Saves money.

I don't think anyone would argue against that, but to deny there are enclaves of children without effective parents, for a myriad of reasons, is to condemn many of them and society in a few years, to a host of problems and costs.

What sociology also taught me, which I wonder if it still does, is what 'The Great Society' inadvertently did to the black family, which until that time was statistically stronger than US families in general.