Military Parents Getting Screwed Over

[NATO AIR]

in custody battles. We should all be well aware she is not the only victim of this flawed legal logic. It makes my blood boil that some slick lawyer would dare claim a soldier lost their rights as a parent when they joined the military.

h
ttp://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=18966053

Advocates for military families say a growing number of soldiers are losing custody of their children, not because they're bad parents but because they've been deployed overseas to Iraq and Afghanistan.

A bill signed by President Bush last month strengthens protections for service members and their families. But legal experts say some military moms and dads are still vulnerable.

'Punishment to the Soldier'

On the outskirts of Albany, N.Y., Tanya Towne coaxes her 4-year-old son Darren to eat. Towne's other child — her 12-year-old son, Derrell — isn't home. Derrell no longer lives with his mother.

"He's in Virginia, so I hardly get to see him at all," Towne says.

Towne divorced Derrell's father, Richard Diffin, eight years ago. She was granted primary custody and raised Derrell, along with her second son from a different marriage.

But when Towne's National Guard unit was deployed to Iraq in 2004, a family court judge in Montgomery County, N.Y., granted temporary custody to Derrell's father.


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Diffin's attorney, Robert Cohen, goes a step further, arguing that soldiers such as Towne put their rights as parents on the line when they volunteer for military duty.

"She was not drafted. This was a job choice. She went into it with open eyes," Cohen says.

I offer a few solutions at my blog:

http://hiddenunities.wordpress.com/2008/02/16/deployed-soldiers-losing-custody-of-their-kids/

[Dilloduck]

in custody battles. We should all be well aware she is not the only victim of this flawed legal logic. It makes my blood boil that some slick lawyer would dare claim a soldier lost their rights as a parent when they joined the military.

h

I offer a few solutions at my blog:

http://hiddenunities.wordpress.com/2008/02/16/deployed-soldiers-losing-custody-of-their-kids/

Unfortunately the military can stand in line with everyone else who has been shafted by lawyers.

[PostmodernProphet]

in Michigan it is impossible to get a court order issued against someone who is deployed overseas....I wonder why other states don't employ that simple solution......

[pegwinn]

It isn't impossible in Texas. But, when you see the judge to do it you'd best have your ducks in line.

The story itself is one I saw played out several times in my career. It doesn't matter if it is peace or wartime either. I actually spoke to a lawyer who accused a Marine I knew of being unstable. Of course he "officially" meant unstable as in no permanent home for more than three to four years. But, the implication was in there. And, you cannot unring a bell.

NATO!!!!!! You have a blog! Go dude. How's the prospective Mrs. Air doin?

[NATO AIR]

It isn't impossible in Texas. But, when you see the judge to do it you'd best have your ducks in line.

The story itself is one I saw played out several times in my career. It doesn't matter if it is peace or wartime either. I actually spoke to a lawyer who accused a Marine I knew of being unstable. Of course he "officially" meant unstable as in no permanent home for more than three to four years. But, the implication was in there. And, you cannot unring a bell.

NATO!!!!!! You have a blog! Go dude. How's the prospective Mrs. Air doin?
"Cannot unring a bell". How true! The lawyers always use tactics like that to discredit the parent. I heard one say in Washington ("And he's killed people... in cold blood... what kind of parent goes home to a child after that?). When the judge struck the comment from the record, the lawyer protested "you may have supported the war, but I didn't, its illegal and founded on lies and those who serve in it are murderers" and moved right on with his argument about how this sailor (an individual augmentee who was a convoy guard and logistics guru for an overstretched Army unit in 2005) was an unfit parent.

(TBA) Mrs. Air is doing well, having just finished Chinese New Year last week. The blog is cool, just hardly any time anymore with full-time work & full-time school... Thank you for asking, I hope all is well on your front.

[gabosaurus]

What do you expect from lawyers?
In a Texas divorce case, the attorney for the woman portrayer her Viet Nam vet husband as "a psychotic killer."
Pretty pathetic if you ask me.

[Hobbit]

I find the very idea of child custody cases unsettling. I find the idea of parents fighting over children or using them to bludgeon each other sickening. I also find it quite unsettling that the welfare of the child, much less the opinion of the child, are factoring in less and less to each case. Children have become the new slick car, another commodity used to impress people you don't like.

[rppearso]

I cant really feel sorry for the military, I figure the lawyers are getting a rare opprotunity to shaft the military after all the shafting the military has done to people for years and years. Where is a kid suppost to stay when the parent is deployed until the end of time .... the other parent!! so why should the kid be subjected to being passed around just because someone plays the military card, a single military parent is unfit to raise a kid period just like someone who works in Azerbaijan for a year at a time. I dont care if you play the GI Joe hero card or if you bank cash in Azerbaijan your not there and it gets old hearing the same sob story about how you should get special treatment because your GI Joe, in child support cases the kid comes first and it is the one case where court orders can be issued while someone is deployed because the kid does not stop existing until you come back from you hiadus in the desert for 6, 12, or 24 months with possible extentions on to that. The only exception would be if the civilan parent was a crack addict or a bum. Anyone who flames me here does not have a leg to stand on.

[DragonStryk72]

I cant really feel sorry for the military, I figure the lawyers are getting a rare opprotunity to shaft the military after all the shafting the military has done to people for years and years. Okay, what people have the military shafted? before we get any further into his, I want an answer on that one.


Where is a kid suppost to stay when the parent is deployed until the end of time .... the other parent!! so why should the kid be subjected to being passed around just because someone plays the military card, a single military parent is unfit to raise a kid period just like someone who works in Azerbaijan for a year at a time. so the child should be passed around, like they are doing right now by using this?

I dont care if you play the GI Joe hero card or if you bank cash in Azerbaijan your not there and it gets old hearing the same sob story about how you should get special treatment because your GI Joe, in child support cases the kid comes first Obviously, you've never gone through a divorce battle. I'm not even certain where to begin on this one


and it is the one case where court orders can be issued while someone is deployed because the kid does not stop existing until you come back from you hiadus in the desert for 6, 12, or 24 months with possible extentions on to that. The only exception would be if the civilan parent was a crack addict or a bum. Right, except that, in many of these instances, the other parent has no job, and no source of income other than.... you guessed, the military parent (who is apparently 'unstable'). So basically, we should automatically slap our GIs with this burden of payment, but custody should stay with the leech. Now, bear in mind, every GI who has become a single parent is REQUIRED by their command to make certain there is someone to take care of the child while they are deployed, this is not a 'it would be a good idea', it is a standing order, meaning that, should they not comply, they can be held accountable.


Anyone who flames me here does not have a leg to stand on. You made a naive, blatantly inflammatory remark, insulted the military, then decided to throw in this line? seriously, if you wanted one line to ensure getting slammed in here, that was the one. Do your research next time.

[pegwinn]

I cant really feel sorry for the military, I figure the lawyers are getting a rare opprotunity to shaft the military after all the shafting the military has done to people for years and years. Ah Grasshopper. We meet again. Your Kung Fu is still weak. But, just for funsies, go ahead and prove your assertion.

Where is a kid suppost to stay when the parent is deployed until the end of time .... the other parent!! You are falling into the trap of false logic grasshopper. The correct way to say it would be "Where is a kid suppost to stay when the parent is deployed until the end of time? The obvious answer would be the other parent unless they are judged to be unfit. In any event, the service member is required to designate a caregiver in the event of a deployment and provide a plan to support the child." Of course you would have to have knowledge of how the military works to have made a correct statement. You have just learned Ghin Tzu technique number seven...... cutting the heart from the opposition with facts.

so why should the kid be subjected to being passed around just because someone plays the military card, a single military parent is unfit to raise a kid period Well then grasshopper that should have been the end of your post. By continuing the run on sentences and misspelling you only demonstrate a lack of skill in this particular fight. By extending yourself, you leave yourself open to Ghin tzu technique number four....... slicing your opponent lengthwise.

just like someone who works in Azerbaijan for a year at a time. I dont care if you play the GI Joe hero card or if you bank cash in Azerbaijan your not there and it gets old hearing the same sob story about how you should get special treatment because your GI Joe, in child support cases the kid comes first and it is the one case where court orders can be issued while someone is deployed because the kid does not stop existing until you come back from you hiadus in the desert for 6, 12, or 24 months with possible extentions on to that. You now are wide open by showing a key weakness. Your bias against the military is obvious and easily defeated by ghin tzu technique number three..... Chopping off the Bias by exposing the lack of true knowledge.

The only exception would be if the civilan parent was a crack addict or a bum. But, grasshopper, earlier you said that "a single military parent is unfit to raise a kid period". And yet you ramble on to finally declare an exception. You are now in the crucifix position. Standing tall arms spread wide showing a feeble attempt at the "on the other hand" sleight of hand technique. That Kung Fu is strong only if the force is strong within. For those with weak Kung fu we merely wait for your arms to drop. Then with lightning strokes of the blades of logic we apply ghin tzu technique number two.... the cutting remark.

Anyone who flames me here does not have a leg to stand on. I only need one leg grasshopper. The honorary Ghin Tzu master Miyagi said it all, "Crane technique Daniel san. No can defend".

You are right about one thing Grasshopper. There is no need to flame when you are so easy to fillet.

[rppearso]

You are right about one thing Grasshopper. There is no need to flame when you are so easy to fillet.

As far as the military screwing people here is a good link to start, I also posted links on the PTRP and no one has given me a satisfactory reason why it is honoralbe or acceptable its just torture plain and simple no matter what kind of training excuse you want to give because you cant train when your severly injured. But here is some more food for thought. Also keep in mind even when someone in the military does something really f'ed up to someone lower rank there is no ture punishment, there is a slap on the wrist and no policy is ever changed they put on a dog and poney show until the media coverage passes and its buisness as usuall. For instance the marine recruit drowning or service academy sexual assult

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=2829

As far as family care plans who is going to watch a kid for 2 years while your in the desert just because the military "mandates" or has a "standing order" does not amount to a hill of beans and lawyers know this, unless you are in a very fortunate situation (which btw the military will do very little to facilitate a fortunate situation on your behalf, they just mandate the order) the other parent is going to be the one to end up watching the kid and if there divorced they will have to get a job hence removing the argument that the civilian spouse is a leach (I know what military people get paid and child support based on that income is not even close to enough to keep from getting a job), this argument does not absolve the civilian parent and if the civilian parent is a bum the kid should go up for adoption, military regulations and orders are meaningless to me all it is is a memorandum some idiot produced the real world is what matters and the real world says fat chance finding someone other than your recently divorced spouce to watch your kid for 2 years. Military regulations are not the bible nor do they improve your standard of living like the bible does. My state a few years ago past a law removing the need to have a consealed weapons permit to carry a concealed weapon and a few months later the army commander generated a toilet paper memorandum reversing that law for all army personel, so it shows they have no regard for local law unless its agreeable to the army, I have no respect for an institution that cant respect state law so when you quote an army regulation your not kung fu ing anything, present some facts based in reality and I will be willing to concede, army regulations are toilet paper unless they can be substantiated through independant real life sources.

I hate the military for a reason, its not like I just woke up one morning and decided I will hate the military today, I have seen first hand all the chicken s@@t, and there is no way a rational thinking person can justify 90% of it without quoting a military reg or UCMJ which is more toilet paper. Also FYI the RFID chips in your military ID make it able to read any information remotly from up to 300 ft away and if they can read the information they know where you are, this is the same thing they are proposing for the new "Real ID", I never thought I would see the end times in my lifetime but it is starting to look like I will.

[nevadamedic]

in custody battles. We should all be well aware she is not the only victim of this flawed legal logic. It makes my blood boil that some slick lawyer would dare claim a soldier lost their rights as a parent when they joined the military.

h

I offer a few solutions at my blog:

http://hiddenunities.wordpress.com/2008/02/16/deployed-soldiers-losing-custody-of-their-kids/

If they are a single parent don't they have to sign over guardianship or terminate their parental rights before they let you enlist?

[pegwinn]

RP, all kidding aside, who do you think you are fooling?

You washed out of the Army National Guard because you simply could not hack it.

I know that is tough for you to accept since you are an educated professional and a power lifter to boot. Obviously you are superior to the lowly enlisted slime in the Army. It cannot possibly be a weakness of your body, mind, or character huh?

You now hate the Military simply because you were not man enough to get it done. And you point to PTRP and this Chis White idiot as the facts to prove your case.

The problem is that you simply don't know enough to actually make a case for your bias. Psychologically speaking, you are projecting your own self loathing for willful failure into hatred for the group you were unable to belong to for a long term.

If you wish to peddle this nonsense, you really need to apply that degree of yours with some basic writing skill. Then you need to present your assertions and facts to back them up. The link you provided was to a rant by a former Marine who was unable to prove any of the so-called abuses of the system or dishonest tactics. The courts call that stuff unsubstantiated allegations.

The best advice I can give you is to get a job, work well and efficiently, accumulate some life experience so that you have a pattern of success to even out your failures. That way you may achieve some balance and not feel the need to post unsubstantiated nonsense that you cannot adequately defend.

[rppearso]

RP, all kidding aside, who do you think you are fooling?

You washed out of the Army National Guard because you simply could not hack it.

I know that is tough for you to accept since you are an educated professional and a power lifter to boot. Obviously you are superior to the lowly enlisted slime in the Army. It cannot possibly be a weakness of your body, mind, or character huh?

You now hate the Military simply because you were not man enough to get it done. And you point to PTRP and this Chis White idiot as the facts to prove your case.

The problem is that you simply don't know enough to actually make a case for your bias. Psychologically speaking, you are projecting your own self loathing for willful failure into hatred for the group you were unable to belong to for a long term.

If you wish to peddle this nonsense, you really need to apply that degree of yours with some basic writing skill. Then you need to present your assertions and facts to back them up. The link you provided was to a rant by a former Marine who was unable to prove any of the so-called abuses of the system or dishonest tactics. The courts call that stuff unsubstantiated allegations.

The best advice I can give you is to get a job, work well and efficiently, accumulate some life experience so that you have a pattern of success to even out your failures. That way you may achieve some balance and not feel the need to post unsubstantiated nonsense that you cannot adequately defend.

How else are you suppost to substantiate it if you dismiss any and all evidence simply because you dont want to admit the military is so far out of line it has become a religion, I point to the PTRP becasue I had to experence a very small taste of it and saw people that were in basic who had been in for almost a year that is nothing short of torture (being subjected to inspections riding around in the back of flat bed trucks while you have a serious injury being made to do menial tasks while you are suppost to heal being forced to be away from familiy or spouce for an undetermined amount of time, using the suck it up excuse only gets you so far in a rational persons mind, you suck up your 2 mile run, your suck up your rifle marksmanship test or morning PT or push ups or whatever but no one should be subjected to phycological terror and abuse like they do in the PTRP suck it up gets you so far before you just become a tormenter for the sole purpose of making someones life hell with no usefull work being done, but I guess torture is a subjective term and the military uses that subjectivity to justify all kinds of things. I do have a good job and I am a highly skilled professional and I vehminatly oppose torture, abuse and human rights violations, and the military is very good and putting on a show to mask what is really going on and they write off the media attention events as flukes or one offs when really that line is walked every day in military training and thoes are just the cases that they push a little to far over and when they pull it in its just enough to let the media coverage pass and the problems are never truely corrected they continue to ride that line, guantonomo bay is a case where it went way over the top, I have less sympathy in that case because thoes supposidly our enemys, but when our own people are treated this way its totally unacceptable and how there have not been more congressional inquirys into this I do not know, PTRP and CTMC should be 100% civilian and have congressional oversight along with the VA, its tough to have "substaniative evidence" when the victems are in such a controled enviornment and have very little access to resources that give them there rights and the fear of retaliation if great, if they put a leash on some of these dogs (ie drill sgts and other abusers) and had constant congressional oversight you could get way better results. As far as everyday life in the military from what I experenced its a bunch of chicken s$$t, there was very little useful work getting done just a bunch of customs and courtisies for people on power trips, if you want to maintain an elevated blood pressure all the time thats your choise, the big problems I have are people who no longer want to be there and are imprisoned and tortured. I dont feel I failed, I completed basic and chose not to attend OCS because of the agregious abuse that I witnessed during my short time and I was not about to subject myself to the same torture I had just came out of, the first time was shame on them (the military) the second time would have been shame on me and I made sure the second time did not happen. If you notice in my posts my hatred is not to all in the military just towards thoes who perpetuate the dishonor and abuse, there are some good people in the military I met good poeple in the national gaurd but there are a very large percentage of crappy ones as well.

There is very outragious behavior that is accepted in the military that would never be anywhere close to being accepted in the civilian world and in the training enviornment that behavior can cross the line to torture and there not one offs or flukes, every day I went to the CTMC they had drills there hazing people that were sick screaming at them to not sleep duh why do you think they might be sick in the first place. You still have not given me a good reason why this behavior in such settings is acceptable, you keep quoting its an aspect of training people dont understand, why dont you elaborate, if the stress of basic training is causing someone to have physical health issues or they are weak and broken how is forcing someone to stay in honorable, just because your low on troops for an optional war does not justify dishonor and if the war were great enough to engage the entire population then you could put that broken individual into a GS position or non combat support position that would be the honorable thing to do not keep them in the PTRP as prisoners and you would get way more use out of them.

This gets boring if you write off everything using an army memorandum that says its ok so its ok or what I say is unsubstantiated, I experenced it first hand and others testimony adds substance to my experence.

BTW the military (especially the army and marines) is not all that, you would not have a pot to pi$$ in if it were not for the contractors who supply everything you use and people who are way smarter than you building the high tech weapons you use down to the M-16.

[rppearso]

Back to the OP, people in the military are subject to deployments of undetermined length and at undetermined times this is very unstable for a kid period, just because you are not deployed when the kid is 2 does not mean you wont be deployed when the kid is 4, I think if you want custody of the kid you should have less than 2 yrs left on your 8 yr contract and if you reenlist you loose your kid permenantly, the militay is one of the crappiest enviornments you can raise a kid as a single parent, the kid has a right to a stable enviornment and the kids well being overrides the service members ego. If the military really cared about its people it would clean up its act, but they dont have to because people keep joining and the people who are in that want out dont fight tooth and nail to get out and dont do what they have to to get out without an OTH. The OTH is the biggest sham and I think should be illegal and should be disolved, if you cant nail someone with a dishonorable through court martial you have no right to unilatterally ruin someones life, I think gov GS positions should add OTH discharges right there with honorable discharges for security clearances, some maj or col with a basket weaving degree should have no right to make such determinations without a general court martial to prove that you deserve a dishonorable discharge.

[Kathianne]

Doesn't everyone think rppearso is way a supporter of the troops?

[DragonStryk72]

Back to the OP, people in the military are subject to deployments of undetermined length and at undetermined times this is very unstable for a kid period. Okay, I apologize for the alteration of your text to begin with, due to fact that simply, you writing style is a horrible mess, and requires to break it up as such.

Now, as to this point, then that self-same law should apply to all areas applicable, such as Teachers, seeing as the majority of teachers are required to work overtime as a baseline for their jobs, without the benefit of overtime, then of course doctors and nurses, I mean, 60+ hours a week? hell, they can't be raising a child. Also Policemen, Firemen, Ambulance drivers, and so forth, who are 'on call', since that of course means that they have to put their jobs first.

Deployments ARE for specified, hence why the Navy talks about "6-month cruises", as well as "shore duty rotations", because there are times associated with it. Oh yes, they might be a whole few days to a week off on the timeline, dueto transport troubles.


Just because you are not deployed when the kid is 2 does not mean you wont be deployed when the kid is 4, I think if you want custody of the kid you should have less than 2 yrs left on your 8 yr contract and if you reenlist you loose your kid permenantly. Right, that'll work, that's why there's a line forming for the preisthood. The surest way to end the Military in this country to tell them that they have no right to have children.

The militay is one of the crappiest enviornments you can raise a kid as a single parent, the kid has a right to a stable enviornment and the kids well being overrides the service members ego. wow, I wasn't aware that free, guaranteed health care was instability, as well as base schools, where mil brats can be around other mil brats. Let's, a set housing allowance, along with extra provision for the child's food costs, yeah that's tantamount to welfare living.

Also, worst? serisously? you don't think that the inner city could possibly be maybe a bit worse than the above descriptory? you have no idea what you are talking about.

If the military really cared about its people it would clean up its act, but they dont have to because people keep joining and the people who are in that want out dont fight tooth and nail to get out and dont do what they have to to get out without an OTH. Maybe because they mainly want to finish their tour, or here's one, they want to be there, you know, do that whole pesky "defend the country" bit, and get some college money on top of that?

The OTH is the biggest sham and I think should be illegal and should be disolved, if you cant nail someone with a dishonorable through court martial you have no right to unilatterally ruin someones life, I think gov GS positions should add OTH discharges right there with honorable discharges for security clearances, some maj or col with a basket weaving degree should have no right to make such determinations without a general court martial to prove that you deserve a dishonorable discharge.The OTH discharge, is a general discharge, you are not required list it anywhere, save for places like getting a job with the FBI CIA or federal law enforcement group. And shit, you can get it turned over after six months, it's not a world collapser.

;

[pegwinn]

Dragon, good post. Facts are facts although RP will tell you they aint.

RP, I will be back tonight after work to address your stuff. IF you don't mind, how about editing it to reflect your education. I don't mind folks calling me stupid, but when I have to edit the educated to coherently make a point......

[rppearso]

;

Even nurses and emergency workers come home at night and have some weekend days off even if they are on call, when your in iraq your in iraq period and that can be up to 24 months or more and that is totally unacceptable, if congress caped the deployment time to 6 months with 0 exceptions for extentions and only allowed 2 deployments every 4 years you might have a case but such policies dont exist so a kid could end up with a parent who does not exist to them, so nurses and emergency workers is a non argument. Even people who work in remote locations are usually on a 2 week rotation and get 2 weeks off not a 2 year rotation where they have to return to regular duty when they get back.

As far as ending the military, I would have no problems dramaticly scaling back the size of our military and drafting only during times of an actual crisis and only doing what we have to to defend our nation and our peoples interests not the interests of other nations, thats another issues though, but if we only fought out of nessecity it would eliminate all of these extreme deployments and then someone in the military could reasonably raise a child.

As far as raising a kid "in the hood" sure thats probably worse or living in a third world country or the surface of the moon, you got me there but that does not qualify a constantly deployed parent as "stable" just because living on the surface of the moon is worse.

BTW there are alot of people in the military that dont really want to be there, they are forced to be there so lets not kid ourselves, they are just not willing to do what it takes to get out and actually I cant fault them because I was in the guard and only required to show up one weekend a month and could defer my training to prevent deployment I could see how someone on active duty could feel incredibly trapped especially with the stong arm tactics used by alot of military officers and NCO's to "convince" people to stay in and usually the methods of getting out of the military are slow and painful because the tormentors have access to you 24/7 where in the guard I had to put up with it for one weekend and the rest of the time I could eat mcdonalds play video games and be with my wife I could initiate paperwork and the process of getting out without it dramaticly effecting my day to day life at my leisure. When someone else controls your life you dont really have any rights, kinda like in prison, sure you get to sit in a concrete room and talk to your lawyer but once your "right" has been executed you go back to your "cell" which is what will happen to you when the military figures out you are dilibertly trying to get kicked out they will make your life suck for a very long time before you actually get out so most people figure they might as well just finish, but dont patronize me by saying they want to be there, they are choosing the lesser of 2 evils imposed upon them by evil men and women who impose such strong arm tactics, you of course already know this but are trying to blow smoke. I am just wondering when people are going to wake up.

[rppearso]

Dragon, good post. Facts are facts although RP will tell you they aint.

RP, I will be back tonight after work to address your stuff. IF you don't mind, how about editing it to reflect your education. I don't mind folks calling me stupid, but when I have to edit the educated to coherently make a point......

I never called anyone stupid unless you were the one producing idiotic memorandums or strong arming people or any other dishonorable action I addressed. Gauging from your posts you sound like a decent person, but for some reason feel the need to defend what is wrong with the military. You know and I know what goes on in places like the PTRP, CTMC, basic or OCS whether you want to call it unsubstantiated or not we both have experence with the chicken s$$t and for some reason you choose to defend it or cover it up by stating my facts are unsubstantiated even though you know better.

[AFbombloader]

BTW there are alot of people in the military that dont really want to be there, they are forced to be there

Support this or it will be looked at as just part of your continued rambling. Who, where, anything to back this claim up. I know for a fact because I am not a weekender like you were that you are not forced to stay in. It is not possible for me to force any of the Airmen or NCO's under me to stay n the Air Force. If you don't want to be in, you do your time and get out, period. I may ask that you consider all your options, but that is as far as it goes.
.

AF:salute:

[rppearso]

AF:salute:

I started to look for something and then realized its a loaded question, it is common knowlage that there are people in the military that dont want to be there I should specify army and marines and maybe navy because the air force is in a unique situation where they are actually cutting back so people who want out may be able to get out without completeing but im not going to provide a link that is designed to waste my time, I dont really care if you want to deny common knowlage, if everyone wanted to be there they would not have such extreme regulations in place to prevent people from quiting. If you want to debate thats fine but I wont allow you to waste my time.

[rppearso]

Here is a post I found in short order so I thought I would post it and you dont have to read past the first sentence, you can also go to free advice forums and see the numerous people who go AWOL all the time it does not get any more "I dont want to be there" than that.

http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/generalinfo/a/getout.htm

[theHawk]

Also FYI the RFID chips in your military ID make it able to read any information remotly from up to 300 ft away and if they can read the information they know where you are, this is the same thing they are proposing for the new "Real ID", I never thought I would see the end times in my lifetime but it is starting to look like I will.

ROFL, hahaha. You are the biggest moron in the planet. We can't even get our new fast entry system to read the IDs from 2 FEET away at our base. Its shit technology that doesn't work hardly at all.

Carry on dipshit, this is good stuff. :laugh2:

[rppearso]

ROFL, hahaha. You are the biggest moron in the planet. We can't even get our new fast entry system to read the IDs from 2 FEET away at our base. Its shit technology that doesn't work hardly at all.

Carry on dipshit, this is good stuff. :laugh2:

Can you back that up or are you just flaming with a red herring, the comment I made that you chose to comment on represented about 1% of what I was saying, could you try to focus on the main points and stop showing your ignorance.

[pegwinn]

Lord, please watch out for those who've come here in the spirit of competition and debate. And Lord, please comfort them in advance for the butt whippin they are about to receive.


How else are you suppost to substantiate it if you dismiss any and all evidence simply because you dont want to admit the military is so far out of line it has become a religion, Easy. Post something other than anecdotal evidence from people who obviously have an axe to grind. Independent studies that present facts w/o judgement are best. If not them, then discuss your sources and convince me that I should accept them in spite of obvious logical flaws. This is a discussion board is it not?

I point to the PTRP becasue I had to experence a very small taste of it and saw people that were in basic who had been in for almost a year that is nothing short of torture (being subjected to inspections riding around in the back of flat bed trucks while you have a serious injury being made to do menial tasks while you are suppost to heal being forced to be away from familiy or spouce for an undetermined amount of time, using the suck it up excuse only gets you so far in a rational persons mind, you suck up your 2 mile run, your suck up your rifle marksmanship test or morning PT or push ups or whatever but no one should be subjected to phycological terror and abuse like they do in the PTRP. Obviously we are going to disagree on the definition of torture. I have also explained part of the rationale behind that experience for your benifit. The bottom line is that you have direct knowlege of one mans experience, your own. The rest is based on one sided observations and reading more one sided observations. Your experience does not logically lead to a conclusion that all bases PTRP or MRP function the same way. Your experience does not logically lead to a conclusion that none of the injured are malingerers.

suck it up gets you so far before you just become a tormenter for the sole purpose of making someones life hell with no usefull work being done, but I guess torture is a subjective term and the military uses that subjectivity to justify all kinds of things. Your experience does not logically lead to a conclusion that all troop handlers are as you assert. You do understand that there are two chains of command there right. I thought I covered it in an earlier post. The medical chain of command is the one that says you will or will not return to full duty.

I do have a good job and I am a highly skilled professional and I vehminatly oppose torture, abuse and human rights violations, and the military is very good and putting on a show to mask what is really going on and they write off the media attention events as flukes or one offs when really that line is walked every day in military training and thoes are just the cases that they push a little to far over and when they pull it in its just enough to let the media coverage pass and the problems are never truely corrected they continue to ride that line, guantonomo bay is a case where it went way over the top, I'm glad you have a good job. Thank a soldier you live in a country where that is possible. We will disagree on what constitutes torture, abuse and human rights violations. Your comment on military training cannot be anything more than anecdotal since you have nothing but one mans experience to go on. How did gitmo go over the top, and how was that the military's fault?

I have less sympathy in that case because thoes supposidly our enemys, but when our own people are treated this way its totally unacceptable and how there have not been more congressional inquirys into this I do not know, There have been CONGRINTS before. The problem is that it's not a conspiracy theory. The abuses that are substantiated are dealt with.

PTRP and CTMC should be 100% civilian and have congressional oversight along with the VA, A great opinion. So tell me, how should those soldiers be reintegrated into the active duty forces? Considering that those programs are intended for those who didn't complete training do you want to punish the soldier by having them start over at the bottom again?

its tough to have "substaniative evidence" when the victems are in such a controled enviornment and have very little access to resources that give them there rights and the fear of retaliation if great, if they put a leash on some of these dogs (ie drill sgts and other abusers) and had constant congressional oversight you could get way better results. Please tell me you are not this dense all the time. Leash the dogs? Like that isn't just a tad bit biased? Constant congressional oversight? However would we get anything in congress, like the steroid investigations, accomplished? I told you once that my kid went thru MRP. The first assumption they make is that you are a malingerer. Why? Could it be that some folks fake an illness or injury to get out? After you see enough of that is it possible to begin to form a "prove it" mentality? Interesting thing. Again, your personal observations do not automatically indict the entire system successfully.

As far as everyday life in the military from what I experenced its a bunch of chicken s$$t, there was very little useful work getting done just a bunch of customs and courtisies for people on power trips, Spoken like any other PFC. Hell I used to say the same thing. Until I grew up, made rank, learned the reasons why, etc etc that is. See, you never made it to the level that you thought you deserved and so you are pissed.

if you want to maintain an elevated blood pressure all the time thats your choise, the big problems I have are people who no longer want to be there and are imprisoned and tortured. There is that imprecise communications issue again. Perhaps you would like to restate that in a coherent manner? Or, source it. Your call.

I dont feel I failed, I completed basic and chose not to attend OCS If you did not fulfill your oath and complete your contract, you failed.

because of the agregious abuse that I witnessed during my short time and I was not about to subject myself to the same torture I had just came out of, the first time was shame on them (the military) the second time would have been shame on me and I made sure the second time did not happen. If you notice in my posts my hatred is not to all in the military just towards thoes who perpetuate the dishonor and abuse, there are some good people in the military I met good poeple in the national gaurd but there are a very large percentage of crappy ones as well. Actually the figure is about ten percent. Ten percent of the group, no matter the category, don't deserve to be there. I never said that anyone was perfect. And in your posts, there is more than simple hatred. There is hatred coupled with an obvious sense of superiority to the enlisted folks.

There is very outragious behavior that is accepted in the military that would never be anywhere close to being accepted in the civilian world for good reason since the two are diametrically opposed.

and in the training enviornment that behavior can cross the line to torture and there not one offs or flukes, every day I went to the CTMC they had drills there hazing people that were sick screaming at them to not sleep duh if screaming is torture, then we are almost done talking.

why do you think they might be sick in the first place. You still have not given me a good reason why this behavior in such settings is acceptable,
you keep quoting its an aspect of training people dont understand, why dont you elaborate, Initial entry training, boot camp, basic, OCS, TBS etc is stressful for many reasons. The first is to eliminate the "me first" mentality that society conditions you with. The second is to introduce you to some foriegn concepts like honor, courage, commitment, teamwork, and leadership by example. I offered to hook you up with a 21 day program. You turned it down if memory serves. Anyway, the stress is there to toughen up the kids who have been taught that physical confrontation is bad. It's there to toughen up the kids who've never competed but always got a purple ribbon for participating. It's there to teach failure to the kids who have never been allowed to fail. It's there to teach responsibility to those who learned that it's never anyones fault. How's that for elaborating?

if the stress of basic training is causing someone to have physical health issues or they are weak and broken how is forcing someone to stay in honorable, So, requiring someone to live up to a bargain they made is dishonorable? See the above. Those who break in training are immediately evaluated for future service potential. Those with no potential are given a med board. The average med board in 2003 lasted twelve weeks and involved testimony from medical authorities as well as chain of command reps. That was for Marines who had successfully become Marines as opposed to the guys who broke in the pipeline. Those cases take longer because there are more people concentrated in one place.

just because your low on troops for an optional war does not justify dishonor and if the war were great enough to engage the entire population then you could put that broken individual into a GS position or non combat support position that would be the honorable thing to do not keep them in the PTRP as prisoners and you would get way more use out of them. You wanna debate the war, start a new thread.

This gets boring if you write off everything using an army memorandum that says its ok so its ok or what I say is unsubstantiated, I experenced it first hand and others testimony adds substance to my experence. See the above discussion of anecdotal v. substantiated.

BTW the military (especially the army and marines) is not all that, you would not have a pot to pi$$ in if it were not for the contractors who supply everything you use and people who are way smarter than you building the high tech weapons you use down to the M-16. Hmmm, and you would not be here to discuss this without fear of retaliation except for folks who "aint all that". BTW, I don't need a pot to piss in. I can piss on a tree without getting my hands wet, while eyeballing the area to ensure that Ibrahim the Insurgent isn't watching. I don't mind not being the smartest guy in the room, so long as I can kick his ass.


Back to the OP, people in the military are subject to deployments of undetermined length and at undetermined times this is very unstable for a kid period, Agreed. But should that be the sole reason to terminate parental rights?

just because you are not deployed when the kid is 2 does not mean you wont be deployed when the kid is 4, I think if you want custody of the kid you should have less than 2 yrs left on your 8 yr contract and if you reenlist you loose your kid permenantly, Wow. You really are not for freedom and individual liberty are you? S'alright, I think that if you have kids and go off to Alaska to check out oil, then well, you don't deserve kids either.

the militay is one of the crappiest enviornments you can raise a kid as a single parent, You know this from.........what?

the kid has a right to a stable enviornment and the kids well being overrides the service members ego. Personal attacks on single parents will not help your case.

If the military really cared about its people it would clean up its act, but they dont have to because people keep joining and the people who are in that want out dont fight tooth and nail to get out and dont do what they have to to get out without an OTH. Yeah, the military doesn't care. That's why they offer tuition free college educations. Then there is the huge amount of money spent on MWR programs. Let's not forget the civilian run family resource support centers on every base. All those leadership schools that taught Mission First, Marines Always are just way off base.

The OTH is the biggest sham and I think should be illegal and should be disolved, if you cant nail someone with a dishonorable through court martial you have no right to unilatterally ruin someones life, I think gov GS positions should add OTH discharges right there with honorable discharges for security clearances, some maj or col with a basket weaving degree should have no right to make such determinations without a general court martial to prove that you deserve a dishonorable discharge. Your ignorance on the process is exceeded only by your ..... well I digress. An OTH requires a board, independent of the chain of command, to convene. The service member has the right to an attorney to argue on his behalf. An OTH is not a punitive discharge. It is an administrative discharge. That means that if you keep your nose clean, you can petition to have it upgraded to a general discharge. I cannot decide if you are ill informed or uninformed.


I never called anyone stupid unless you were the one producing idiotic memorandums or strong arming people or any other dishonorable action I addressed. If I were to quote every post you made I could highlight the multiple occasions that you have denigrated the enlisted community in general. Scroll up for a decent example.

Gauging from your posts you sound like a decent person, but for some reason feel the need to defend what is wrong with the military. Wrong again sport. I defend the military against the uninformed and the ill informed. There are other posts where I go all out against it. They are rare. That's because they are substantiated flaws in the system rather than anecdotal incidents.

You know and I know what goes on in places like the PTRP, CTMC, basic or OCS whether you want to call it unsubstantiated or not we both have experence with the chicken s$$t and for some reason you choose to defend it or cover it up by stating my facts are unsubstantiated even though you know better. That is the problem. I do know what goes on in those places in more than one place, spanning more than one year. I know it from the position of the trainee, and from the troop handler. I know it from the position of the docs who are overworked at those places also. I understand the philosophy behind why it is, to quote my kid, "eternal fucking bootcamp". You OTOH have no such knowledge. You have a limited view as we discussed above. Oh BTW, chicken shit helps develop self discipline. Self discipline from time to time may save a life in theatre.

RP. I am getting tired of trying to educate you in a reasonably civil manner. A person of your qualifications should be able to think critically and discuss this in a rational manner. Instead, you insist on being ill or uninformed, rude, and inflammatory. This will be my last civil post unless your posts become more adult. From now on you will get what you give. Fair enough?

[rppearso]

Lord, please watch out for those who've come here in the spirit of competition and debate. And Lord, please comfort them in advance for the butt whippin they are about to receive.





[/COLOR][/COLOR]

RP. I am getting tired of trying to educate you in a reasonably civil manner. A person of your qualifications should be able to think critically and discuss this in a rational manner. Instead, you insist on being ill or uninformed, rude, and inflammatory. This will be my last civil post unless your posts become more adult. From now on you will get what you give. Fair enough?

Lets just keep it simple then, to the last paragraph you quoted me on. "eternal fucking bootcamp", lets say the person is a malingerer and hate the training and hates you and has absolutly no motivation to be there, how can you feel it is ok to keep this person in "eternal fucking bootcamp" when all it is doing is breeding contempt and is doing none of the honorable things that you mentioned, what is the point, subjecting someone to this for more time just makes it worse. We can look at it from a legalistic stand point all day long and talk about it until we are blue in the face but thats not any fun, I want to get to the underlying motivation of keeping in such an individual, I can think of no other reason other than to make his life hell until he is cut loose, how is that honorable. What if the PTRP that you defend so much burned her so bad she got an ELS or general discharge and never spoke with you for the rest of your life because you defend such institutions more than your family, would you continue to tout the legalistic montra, thats what it boils down to. You are correct in all of your quotes of my comments from a legalistic stand point the military has a legal right to do what it is doing and they ride that line as close as they can but what about the human factor that is what I have been trying to get answers too and you keep dodging it. Or what if your daughter came out of that experence so messed up she had to have counseling for years and had major phycological problems would you tell her to suck it up and she is a weenee, if so I would have to say you have no heart and no soul. You have to respect someone as a fellow human being. I denigrate where I see fit and I also note exceptions, not everyone I encountered in the military enlisted or officer were bad people, the problem is the system has very little restraint for thoes that choose to abuse there rank and deal harshly with others of lower rank.

[rppearso]

In regards to the OP I thought it was pretty clear, I will make a list.

1. working in the oil patch is 2 on 2 off, that = 2 weeks to spend with your kid and there is not potential to be sent away for 2 full years at a time with very little R&R inbetween. In the military you are subject to up to 2 yr deployments plain and simple, thats 2 full yrs with minimal presence in your childs life. No other carrer option has this extreme of an absense requirement. And even if you had to go to some other country for work for a long time you can bring your family, but not for a forward deployed location for 2 years at a time. Thats the bottom line.

2. thoes benifits you keep quoting can be got at numerous other civilian employment, I have all of thoes benifits and they are better than the military.

3. In regards to the OTH, they outprocess people with OTH's who are DFR and turn themselves in to one of the outprocessing bases all the time just go to the free advice forums, so even if there is a board all it is is a puppet board to rubber stamp an OTH, its not a special assembly for each individual case like a dishonorable is through a full court martial but an OTH can have equally devistating consequences in regards to security clearances and employment and that is wrong, people go AWOL for a reason they dont just wake up one morning and decide it for no reason. GS positions have nice AC and heating and offices so i have no reason to up and quit as long as civilian work place laws are abided by so why is going AWOL held against someone for a security clearance.

In closing,

My opinions are going to dictate the decisions I make whether substantiated or not, in my opinion the legal facts dont really matter as long as im uncomfortable or unhappy and if im going to choose to be in an unhappy situation the rewards better match or exceed the unpleasentness im going through because I realize that in life you have to sometimes deal with unpleasantness to get where you want to be. I partially live by the quote teddy rosevelt made and this is a paraphrase "far and away one of lifes greatest gifts is the chance to work hard at WORK WORTH DOING, thoes are all just my opinion, but when someone flames me for the decisions I make based on my personal convictions and opinions I am not going to have much respect for that person and that is how a large majority of military members view someone who did not finish there enlistment contract for whatever reason and its flat out wrong.

[Mr. P]

I see our village IDIOT is back. :laugh2:

[DragonStryk72]

In regards to the OP I thought it was pretty clear, I will make a list.

1. working in the oil patch is 2 on 2 off, that = 2 weeks to spend with your kid and there is not potential to be sent away for 2 full years at a time with very little R&R inbetween. In the military you are subject to up to 2 yr deployments plain and simple, thats 2 full yrs with minimal presence in your childs life. No other carrer option has this extreme of an absense requirement. And even if you had to go to some other country for work for a long time you can bring your family, but not for a forward deployed location for 2 years at a time. Thats the bottom line.

2. thoes benifits you keep quoting can be got at numerous other civilian employment, I have all of thoes benifits and they are better than the military.

3. In regards to the OTH, they outprocess people with OTH's who are DFR and turn themselves in to one of the outprocessing bases all the time just go to the free advice forums, so even if there is a board all it is is a puppet board to rubber stamp an OTH, its not a special assembly for each individual case like a dishonorable is through a full court martial but an OTH can have equally devistating consequences in regards to security clearances and employment and that is wrong, people go AWOL for a reason they dont just wake up one morning and decide it for no reason.

In closing,

My opinions are going to dictate the decisions I make whether substantiated or not, in my opinion the legal facts dont really matter as long as im uncomfortable or unhappy and if im going to choose to be in an unhappy situation the rewards better match or exceed the unpleasentness im going through because I realize that in life you have to sometimes deal with unpleasantness to get where you want to be. I partially live by the quote teddy rosevelt made and this is a paraphrase "far and away one of lifes greatest gifts is the chance to work hard at WORK WORTH DOING, thoes are all just my opinion, but when someone flames me for the decisions I make based on my personal convictions and opinions I am not going to have much respect for that person and that is how a large majority of military members view someone who did not finish there enlistment contract for whatever reason and its flat out wrong.

RP, you stepped into this debate being argumentative, judgmental in the extreme, you warn against flames even now, when frankly, you jumped in here, made rampant judgments about what a number of people on this forum do, or have done for a living.

You do not substantiate any claim that you make, and when forced to reconcile that, you use the excuse of 'This gets boring', and it is unbecoming of you. you have greater capacity than this argument, and yes, that is an argument. Debates have facts attached to them, and argument is all opinion, and that is all you are looking, except, really, not even that.

You hide behind your poor experience, and you decide that it must be this, and then, when people do talk to you, and bring up valid, solid points, points that can in fact be backed with information, you dig in, and theorize away. That is not what debating is, and this is why your rep is where it's at. you are not ignorant, honestly, that would be an improvement. Ignorance can be educated, but willful avoidance of fact is another thing. Nothing that any of us will say will reach you, because that would encompass something that you simply cannot accept: That maybe, you're wrong.

[AFbombloader]

How was my asking you to back up your claim a loaded question? Show me people who are being "forced" (your word) to stay in. Anything at all....



Here is a post I found in short order so I thought I would post it and you dont have to read past the first sentence, you can also go to free advice forums and see the numerous people who go AWOL all the time it does not get any more "I dont want to be there" than that.

http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/generalinfo/a/getout.htm

From the above link...

"If you thought this was an article detailing the "secret tips" to getting out of the military, I'm sorry to have to disappoint you. I can't write such an article, because there are no "secret tips." Joining the military is not like getting a job a McDonalds™. You can't simply quit because you don't like it. You signed a contract, and you took an oath, and you are legally (and morally) obligated to complete the terms of the contract, even if you don't like it."

There may be people in all the branches who do not like where they are and they want out. We have discussed the obligation attached to military service in previous posts and I will not go back into it again. The ones I know serve their time and move on, no one forces them to stay. I have regulations, aritcles of the UCMJ and other things telling me that I cannot do this, but I will not list them because you stated earlier what you felt about those. I believe you called them worthless (or something very close).

I read every line of your link, how does this fit into yout assertion that there are people being forced to stay in the service? It explained, in detail, the ways to get out of the service. I looked around and could only find a few articles talking about the "stop loss" program. And those were from 2004.

You are allowed to have your opinion. But don't be surprised to have to back up assertions like this.

AF:salute:

[rppearso]

How was my asking you to back up your claim a loaded question? Show me people who are being "forced" (your word) to stay in. Anything at all....




From the above link...

"If you thought this was an article detailing the "secret tips" to getting out of the military, I'm sorry to have to disappoint you. I can't write such an article, because there are no "secret tips." Joining the military is not like getting a job a McDonalds™. You can't simply quit because you don't like it. You signed a contract, and you took an oath, and you are legally (and morally) obligated to complete the terms of the contract, even if you don't like it."

There may be people in all the branches who do not like where they are and they want out. We have discussed the obligation attached to military service in previous posts and I will not go back into it again. The ones I know serve their time and move on, no one forces them to stay. I have regulations, aritcles of the UCMJ and other things telling me that I cannot do this, but I will not list them because you stated earlier what you felt about those. I believe you called them worthless (or something very close).

I read every line of your link, how does this fit into yout assertion that there are people being forced to stay in the service? It explained, in detail, the ways to get out of the service. I looked around and could only find a few articles talking about the "stop loss" program. And those were from 2004.

You are allowed to have your opinion. But don't be surprised to have to back up assertions like this.

AF:salute:

The very first sentence of the article, people are always looking for ways to get out which means they dont want to stay in but are being forced to stay in until there enlistment contract is up, I understand the military does not force you to stay in beyond your 8 yr contract (there is exception to this which is total BS http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4578639 can this individual walk away from an engagement the second his 8 years are up, technically his contract is up but the military will not honor there own contracts so why should anyone else) but 8 yrs is a very very long time to hate your life.

[AFbombloader]

The very first sentence of the article, people are always looking for ways to get out which means they dont want to stay in but are being forced to stay in until there enlistment contract is up, I understand the military does not force you to stay in beyond your 8 yr contract (there is exception to this which is total BS http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4578639 can this individual walk away from an engagement the second his 8 years are up, technically his contract is up but the military will not honor there own contracts so why should anyone else) but 8 yrs is a very very long time to hate your life.

Sorry, but I read beyond the first line. The article did say that people are asking him how to get out, just like people ask him all the time about enlisting. It did not say that they were being "forced" to stay in. Nobody forced them to enlist; nobody forces them to reenlist or to get out (unless there are issues, but we are not talking about troubled people).

Name me one company anywhere where everyone is 100% happy all the time (especially one with 2.2 million employees). The difference with the military is you sign a legally binding contract saying you will give 2,4,6 years of active duty time with the remainder on inactive reserves. I can't recall the Air Force ever using the inactive reserve (the others may have, but I will not speak from ignorance). They are there to be recalled if the shit hit the fan, like WWIII. As for the stop loss, the military has the right to do it, in time of war (which we are in) and for critical career fields. They do not blanket stop loss people. There are ways out if you are unhappy, but most of the time you are required to fulfill the committment you signed.

AF:salute:

[rppearso]

Sorry, but I read beyond the first line. The article did say that people are asking him how to get out, just like people ask him all the time about enlisting. It did not say that they were being "forced" to stay in. Nobody forced them to enlist; nobody forces them to reenlist or to get out (unless there are issues, but we are not talking about troubled people).

Name me one company anywhere where everyone is 100% happy all the time (especially one with 2.2 million employees). The difference with the military is you sign a legally binding contract saying you will give 2,4,6 years of active duty time with the remainder on inactive reserves. I can't recall the Air Force ever using the inactive reserve (the others may have, but I will not speak from ignorance). They are there to be recalled if the shit hit the fan, like WWIII. As for the stop loss, the military has the right to do it, in time of war (which we are in) and for critical career fields. They do not blanket stop loss people. There are ways out if you are unhappy, but most of the time you are required to fulfill the committment you signed.

AF:salute:

The air force is having the least problems with all of this, it is the army and marine corp and mostly the army that I refer to, the air force is cutting back so you are in a whole different situation. Also you acnolaged my point that there are people who want to get out before there contract is up. I agree the military has a right to keep someone up to 8 years, stop loss or whatever, but the bottom line is dont expect cooperation from someone who would have already quit if it had been a civilian job and dont expect it to get better for that individual expect it to get worse, when people are unhappy they dont care about the contract they signed its a piece of paper with black ink on it and it does not bring the comfort of your living room to some ditch in iraq.

[pegwinn]

I see our village IDIOT is back. :laugh2:

Heyyyyyyyy Now. Watch the name calling. Only my wife can call me an idiot and get away with it....... :salute:


Lets just keep it simple then, to the last paragraph you quoted me on. "eternal fucking bootcamp", lets say the person is a malingerer and hate the training and hates you and has absolutly no motivation to be there, how can you feel it is ok to keep this person in "eternal fucking bootcamp" when all it is doing is breeding contempt and is doing none of the honorable things that you mentioned,

Addressed and covered in earlier posts. Scroll up, back, and to other threads. Your arguments are boiling down to "I didn't like it. I don't agree with it. And so I aint gonna do it." How very modern of you.

what is the point, subjecting someone to this for more time just makes it worse. We can look at it from a legalistic stand point all day long and talk about it until we are blue in the face but thats not any fun, I want to get to the underlying motivation of keeping in such an individual, I can think of no other reason other than to make his life hell until he is cut loose, how is that honorable.

You can think..... of no other reason? Please. Now whom is wasting whos' time? As a PFC I learned that USMC also stood for...... wait for it...... You Signed a Motherfuckin Contract. I had a Sergeant tell me (PFC Gwinn, the eternal challenge to squad leaders everywhere) that I could do my four years as a private, or make something of myself, but four years would be done. It is called personal responsibility for decisions you made. What I cannot understand is how some people are so pussywhipped that they feel they deserve special treatment because life isn't going according to thier wants or likes.

What if the PTRP that you defend so much burned her so bad she got an ELS or general discharge and never spoke with you for the rest of your life because you defend such institutions more than your family, would you continue to tout the legalistic montra, thats what it boils down to.

Actually, she hated MRP for essentially the same reasons you hated PTRP. The difference is that she carried on, and now can look back at it with a different perspective. IOW she grew up. Oh, and as to "What if?"......

What if worms had guns? Birds wouldn't fuck with em.

You are correct in all of your quotes of my comments from a legalistic stand point the military has a legal right to do what it is doing and they ride that line as close as they can

I know I am correct. Better than that, I am right. Experience counts lad. Playboy is no substitute for a girlfriend.

but what about the human factor that is what I have been trying to get answers too and you keep dodging it. Or what if your daughter came out of that experence so messed up she had to have counseling for years and had major phycological problems would you tell her to suck it up and she is a weenee, if so I would have to say you have no heart and no soul.

The human factor is that you do the best you can. So does the staffs of those places. So do the docs. Shit happens. That's because no one is perfect and everything can be improved. BTW, if my daughter came out fucked up, I would have some ass both officially and on the side. You can too. If you are true to what you are spouting here, bring suit. Just remember, like here at DP, bring the shit, don't sling the shit.

You have to respect someone as a fellow human being. I denigrate where I see fit and I also note exceptions, not everyone I encountered in the military enlisted or officer were bad people, the problem is the system has very little restraint for thoes that choose to abuse there rank and deal harshly with others of lower rank.

Ah well. I tried to educate you. But you don't wish to hear the truth because it conflicts with your preferred reality. For now...... Dismissed.




The very first sentence of the article, people are always looking for ways to get out which means they dont want to stay in but are being forced to stay in until there enlistment contract is up,

A slacker website. Guess I should have expected that.

I understand the military does not force you to stay in beyond your 8 yr contract (there is exception to this which is total BS http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4578639 can this individual walk away from an engagement the second his 8 years are up, technically his contract is up but the military will not honor there own contracts so why should anyone else) but 8 yrs is a very very long time to hate your life.

Ill informed or un informed? With seven years plus change in uniform how was this nitwit unable to figure it out? As a PFC I can see not being aware or understanding what STOP LOSS is. As a 7yr vet..... No pity here.


Here I go again trying to reason with you. I dunno, sooner or later I am going to get tired of it. BTW, folks who go UA (AWOL for the Army/Airforce types) normally ping out as pussies, weaklings, and part of the ten percent I told you about elsewhere. There may be exceptions. But in over twenty years of being aware of such cowards, not one of the rationalisations stood up to fair scrutiny. Fair warning, don't - try - to - justify - running - away around me. I will change the ROE quick, fast, and in a hurry then likely get banned.

[rppearso]

Heyyyyyyyy Now. Watch the name calling. Only my wife can call me an idiot and get away with it....... :salute:





Here I go again trying to reason with you. I dunno, sooner or later I am going to get tired of it. BTW, folks who go UA (AWOL for the Army/Airforce types) normally ping out as pussies, weaklings, and part of the ten percent I told you about elsewhere. There may be exceptions. But in over twenty years of being aware of such cowards, not one of the rationalisations stood up to fair scrutiny. Fair warning, don't - try - to - justify - running - away around me. I will change the ROE quick, fast, and in a hurry then likely get banned.

A fair justification is if they admited they were weaklings and could not handle it that is exactly what I wrote in my counseling statement before I was discharged, I dident try to make excuses maybe thats why they discharged me without incident, I also dident run away I indicated I would stay if they forced me but would not go to AIT or OCS (because I did not meet AR 600-9 regs) so I would just be an OC for another 4 years thats a waste of time, I dident use the word weakling but basicly the same thing, I was that 10% and I did not deny it, I spent 2 years as an OC (an E-0) and got out, but like I said I got lucky and others are not so lucky. You can get yourself in trouble when you "make something of yourself" because then you become an asset and thats when you get stop lossed, if you can barely do your job and have all kinds of counseling statements your not going to get stop lossed. The problem with bringing suit against the military is no one truely wins, you might win in the trial court but it will eventually be overruled for the good of the nation or some other such crap, thats just my opinion. But you are correct on your assertions of military regulations.

[AFbombloader]

A fair justification is if they admited they were weaklings and could not handle it that is exactly what I wrote in my counseling statement before I was discharged, I dident try to make excuses maybe thats why they discharged me without incident, I also dident run away I indicated I would stay if they forced me but would not go to AIT or OCS (because I did not meet AR 600-9 regs) so I would just be an OC for another 4 years thats a waste of time, I dident use the word weakling but basicly the same thing, I was that 10% and I did not deny it, I spent 2 years as an OC (an E-0) and got out, but like I said I got lucky and others are not so lucky. You can get yourself in trouble when you "make something of yourself" because then you become an asset and thats when you get stop lossed, if you can barely do your job and have all kinds of counseling statements your not going to get stop lossed. The problem with bringing suit against the military is no one truely wins, you might win in the trial court but it will eventually be overruled for the good of the nation or some other such crap, thats just my opinion. But you are correct on your assertions of military regulations.


Just one thing. The military does not stoploss an individual. They do it to a career field. So how can it be personal in any way?

AF:salute:

[Monkeybone]

A fair justification is if they admited they were weaklings and could not handle it that is exactly what I wrote in my counseling statement before I was discharged, I dident try to make excuses maybe thats why they discharged me without incident, I also dident run away I indicated I would stay if they forced me but would not go to AIT or OCS (because I did not meet AR 600-9 regs) so I would just be an OC for another 4 years thats a waste of time, I dident use the word weakling but basicly the same thing, I was that 10% and I did not deny it, I spent 2 years as an OC (an E-0) and got out, but like I said I got lucky and others are not so lucky. You can get yourself in trouble when you "make something of yourself" because then you become an asset and thats when you get stop lossed, if you can barely do your job and have all kinds of counseling statements your not going to get stop lossed. The problem with bringing suit against the military is no one truely wins, you might win in the trial court but it will eventually be overruled for the good of the nation or some other such crap, thats just my opinion. But you are correct on your assertions of military regulations.

way to half ass it quitter! wooooo!

you are just too much dude. seriously.

and AF
Just one thing. The military does not stoploss an individual. They do it to a career field. So how can it be personal in any way?

remember, you are talking to someone (loser & whiner) who the military (those big meanies and their unfair commitment contracts) has personally wronged (with a dildo) and he is just out there (way out there) to infrom (give his chip on the shoulder opinion) of just how messed up (cuz he was in there for a couple years...or didn't make it through boot...i forget which one he stuck with..) the whole thing can be.

[rppearso]

way to half ass it quitter! wooooo!

you are just too much dude. seriously.

and AF

remember, you are talking to someone (loser & whiner) who the military (those big meanies and their unfair commitment contracts) has personally wronged (with a dildo) and he is just out there (way out there) to infrom (give his chip on the shoulder opinion) of just how messed up (cuz he was in there for a couple years...or didn't make it through boot...i forget which one he stuck with..) the whole thing can be.

You can not honestly say you have never met anyone like me through your time in the military.

[shattered]

How else are you suppost to substantiate it if you dismiss any and all evidence simply because you dont want to admit the military is so far out of line it has become a religion, I point to the PTRP becasue I had to experence a very small taste of it and saw people that were in basic who had been in for almost a year that is nothing short of torture (being subjected to inspections riding around in the back of flat bed trucks while you have a serious injury being made to do menial tasks while you are suppost to heal being forced to be away from familiy or spouce for an undetermined amount of time, using the suck it up excuse only gets you so far in a rational persons mind, you suck up your 2 mile run, your suck up your rifle marksmanship test or morning PT or push ups or whatever but no one should be subjected to phycological terror and abuse like they do in the PTRP suck it up gets you so far before you just become a tormenter for the sole purpose of making someones life hell with no usefull work being done, but I guess torture is a subjective term and the military uses that subjectivity to justify all kinds of things.

That's the longest single sentence I've ever seen.

What WERE you trying to say in all that blathering?

[Nukeman]

You can not honestly say you have never met anyone like me through your time in the military.I can honestly say "I have never met anyone like you in regular life"! The amount of whinning and pissing and moaning coming from you is beyond pety, its down right pathetic.....

Here's a little saying we use.

"Cry me a river, build a bridge, and get over it"! Truer words have never been spoken to one such as you.....:poke:

[pegwinn]

You can not honestly say you have never met anyone like me through your time in the military.

I can.

I once saw a former Marine wear out a biker who talked shit about the Corps. The former Marine had been kicked out with a BCD years earlier for multiple assault and battery, in a club, using a pool stick, because some idiots mouth wrote checks his body could not cash.

I once knew a Marine who was on suicide watch because his buddy was killed overseas and the Marine blamed himself.

I even met Marines that hated the Corps. They felt let down. The recruiter pumped em up with song and story of songs and glory. Problem is that cigarette butts still need to be policed and field day goes every thursday. A lat move to the grunts made it all better. Happy Marines are a great thing.

But, met one like you? No. Can't say I have.

[rppearso]

I can.

I once saw a former Marine wear out a biker who talked shit about the Corps. The former Marine had been kicked out with a BCD years earlier for multiple assault and battery, in a club, using a pool stick, because some idiots mouth wrote checks his body could not cash.

I once knew a Marine who was on suicide watch because his buddy was killed overseas and the Marine blamed himself.

I even met Marines that hated the Corps. They felt let down. The recruiter pumped em up with song and story of songs and glory. Problem is that cigarette butts still need to be policed and field day goes every thursday. A lat move to the grunts made it all better. Happy Marines are a great thing.

But, met one like you? No. Can't say I have.


What about thoes 10% you speak of or have you never actually met any of them other than indirectly. BTW I dont act like this in real life.

[AFbombloader]

What about thoes 10% you speak of or have you never actually met any of them other than indirectly. BTW I dont act like this in real life.

To be honest, yes I have met a few people like you in the years I have been in the Air Force. And I am proud of the fact that I got their asses kicked out of my Air Force. There is no place for them here. Sorry, but I cannot trust an individual to do what I require if they whine and cry and ask why all the time. this is the military, you are expected...no required to do what I say, when I say, no questions. I work on the weapons system of fighter aircraft. They have one mission....to fly 100 miles north and kill North Koreans. If I (and the pilots) cannot 100% trust anyone to do their job every time I need it done without any backtalk, you are welcome to walk out the gate and never look back.

As far as you not acting like this in "real life". There is no way to prove that statement. I would wager that you are very close to your online persona.

AF:salute:

[Nukeman]

What about thoes 10% you speak of or have you never actually met any of them other than indirectly. BTW I dont act like this in real life.I find this very hard to believe. Most people who post on here have a substantial amount of their own personality come through. For you to make a statement like this is utter BS and tells of the type of person YOU REALLY ARE!!!!:poke:

[rppearso]

I find this very hard to believe. Most people who post on here have a substantial amount of their own personality come through. For you to make a statement like this is utter BS and tells of the type of person YOU REALLY ARE!!!!:poke:

Just because its how I feel about the military does not mean I always talk about the military, this is one of the few topics I feel this strongly about.

[rppearso]

To be honest, yes I have met a few people like you in the years I have been in the Air Force. And I am proud of the fact that I got their asses kicked out of my Air Force. There is no place for them here. Sorry, but I cannot trust an individual to do what I require if they whine and cry and ask why all the time. this is the military, you are expected...no required to do what I say, when I say, no questions. I work on the weapons system of fighter aircraft. They have one mission....to fly 100 miles north and kill North Koreans. If I (and the pilots) cannot 100% trust anyone to do their job every time I need it done without any backtalk, you are welcome to walk out the gate and never look back.

As far as you not acting like this in "real life". There is no way to prove that statement. I would wager that you are very close to your online persona.

AF:salute:

So you just got him kicked out, you dident try to get him sent to getmo to be tortured a little bit to teach him a lesson before kicking him out or some dingey barracks in the middle of nowhere? That must be because its the air force, I know the army would have done some messed up stuff to you before cutting you loose to get there jollys off.

[Monkeybone]

So you just got him kicked out, you dident try to get him sent to getmo to be tortured a little bit to teach him a lesson before kicking him out or some dingey barracks in the middle of nowhere? That must be because its the air force, I know the army would have done some messed up stuff to you before cutting you loose to get there jollys off.

ooooo yaaaaahhhhh...bashing the army, even though i was gaurd :wank2: ooooooooooooo

grow up dude...or should i say mature up?
Just because its how I feel about the military does not mean I always talk about the military, this is one of the few topics I feel this strongly about. have you even posted about anything else on your time here at the board? try to go one post without getting your jollies off of bashing something that you couldn't hack.

[Nukeman]

So you just got him kicked out, you dident try to get him sent to getmo to be tortured a little bit to teach him a lesson before kicking him out or some dingey barracks in the middle of nowhere? That must be because its the air force, I know the army would have done some messed up stuff to you before cutting you loose to get there jollys off.

You know I could post a whole slew of things in response to you but I think I will allow AF to handle you all by himself. I do believe that if you were to meet him in person and speak to him the way you do hiding behind you computer you would be in for on hell of a ass whoopin.

People can be very brave behind the safety of a computer screen and fake name but when push-comes-to-shove they hide and tail and run like the little bitches they are. So what are you?

Monkey brings up a very valid point, WHAT THE HELL ELSE HAVE YOU COMMENTED ON ON THIS BOARD OTHER THAN BASHING THE MILITARY YOU COULDN'T HACK!!!!!!

[Mr. P]

So you just got him kicked out, you dident try to get him sent to getmo to be tortured a little bit to teach him a lesson before kicking him out or some dingey barracks in the middle of nowhere? That must be because its the air force, I know the army would have done some messed up stuff to you before cutting you loose to get there jollys off.

No you don't, since you NEVER even made it through training you have (as I've said before) " NO CLUE". You remain an IDIOT.

[Nukeman]

Just because its how I feel about the military does not mean I always talk about the military, this is one of the few topics I feel this strongly about.HEY FUCK HEAD!!!!

I just went through all 84 post you have made on this board since you got here, guess what. EVERY FUCKING ONE OF THEM IS BASHING THE MILITARY IN SOME WAY.

Sounds to me like you have a very large chip on your shoulder.... GET THE HELL OVER IT ALREADY!!!!!!!!!

My God man you carry around this much angst/annimosity for the military it will spill over from the safety of your computer into real life and I guarentee you will get the shit kicked out of you!!!!!!!

[AFbombloader]

So you just got him kicked out, you dident try to get him sent to getmo to be tortured a little bit to teach him a lesson before kicking him out or some dingey barracks in the middle of nowhere? That must be because its the air force, I know the army would have done some messed up stuff to you before cutting you loose to get there jollys off.

If what they did warranted going to prison I would have pushed for that. But it didn't. You have a very twisted and corrupt view about the military. I realize it is because of your personal experience, but you could not be further from the truth. Don't tell me my experience is different because I am in the Air Force. You can't assume anything about the Air Force, you have not been here.

Nuke made a valid point. I have not seen a post from you that did not negatively portray some aspect of the military. Your experience is not how the military operates as a whole. Maybe it happened because of your attitude? If I have 2 Airmen, one with a good attitude and one with yours, which is gonna get the good jobs and who is gonna get the shit details? Just maybe, you brought everything on yourself. Not once on this board have you truly taken personal responsibility for how your attempt at the military went. Try it. You may just grow a bit from the experience.

AF:salute:

[Nukeman]

If what they did warranted going to prison I would have pushed for that. But it didn't. You have a very twisted and corrupt view about the military. I realize it is because of your personal experience, but you could not be further from the truth. Don't tell me my experience is different because I am in the Air Force. You can't assume anything about the Air Force, you have not been here.

Nuke made a valid point. I have not seen a post from you that did not negatively portray some aspect of the military. Your experience is not how the military operates as a whole. Maybe it happened because of your attitude? If I have 2 Airmen, one with a good attitude and one with yours, which is gonna get the good jobs and who is gonna get the shit details? Just maybe, you brought everything on yourself. Not once on this board have you truly taken personal responsibility for how your attempt at the military went. Try it. You may just grow a bit from the experience.

AF:salute:You must first spread more reputation before giving it to AF!!!!!

[rppearso]

If what they did warranted going to prison I would have pushed for that. But it didn't. You have a very twisted and corrupt view about the military. I realize it is because of your personal experience, but you could not be further from the truth. Don't tell me my experience is different because I am in the Air Force. You can't assume anything about the Air Force, you have not been here.

Nuke made a valid point. I have not seen a post from you that did not negatively portray some aspect of the military. Your experience is not how the military operates as a whole. Maybe it happened because of your attitude? If I have 2 Airmen, one with a good attitude and one with yours, which is gonna get the good jobs and who is gonna get the shit details? Just maybe, you brought everything on yourself. Not once on this board have you truly taken personal responsibility for how your attempt at the military went. Try it. You may just grow a bit from the experience.

AF:salute:

My attitude should not have been all that relavant, my qualifications should have been, I should have been able to get a direct commission into the army corp with the qualifications I had or with a few more flight hours into aviation which is what I was branched in the first place, of course the issues that crept in regarding national guard deployments makes it all irrelavant anyways because I dident join the guard to go to iraq. I dont care how sucky your attitude is people with engineering degrees dont dig ditches or get chewed out by basket weavers, unless they dont need you and thats fine too I can go else where but I refuse to be treated with disrespect after the hard work I went through to get an engineering degree on my own dime and my pilots licence on my own dime. Regarding my posts, my posts regarding this OP were directly related to the OP you probably just dident like my opinions so now all of a sudden everything I say slams the military, I even stated there are good people in the military but the system as a whole is corrupt. Military people are subject to gross amounts of time away from there kids that are hugely disperporcinate to any other civilian carrer field, and thats the bottom line if you want to call that a "slam on the military" whatever, its just the facts, and thats why so often the civilian parent can get custody unless there are some sort of extreme extenuating circumstances. As far as getting my a$$ kicked, im not going to walk into a dingy bar and and start randomly harrassing a military person because im not an idiot, I will ignore recruiters in the mall to the point of blatent disrespect but I dont say anything and if they attacked me I could nail them to the cross legally because I did not provok anything and believe it or not I am capable of defending myself, I may not win but he wont come out of it unscathed, and ultimately he losses because I will win legally and he will be totally f**ed legally and the military could get kicked out of the mall over an incident like that. So other than that I dont know what other opprotunity there would be for me to even be in the same room as someone in the military in uniform (I work with people in the military but they are in civilian clothes and if they act crazy I just report them)

[pegwinn]

What about thoes 10% you speak of or have you never actually met any of them other than indirectly. BTW I dont act like this in real life.

I met a lot of ten percenters. I didn't meet anyone who failed to complete recruit training and still managed to think they were superior. BTW. IF you fucked the dog around this Master Sergeant, the dog would turn around and bite your dick off. I'm glad you don't act like this in real life. I can assume that this is like porn for virgins? Masturbatory Greatness?


So you just got him kicked out, you dident try to get him sent to getmo to be tortured a little bit to teach him a lesson before kicking him out or some dingey barracks in the middle of nowhere? That must be because its the air force, I know the army would have done some messed up stuff to you before cutting you loose to get there jollys off.

Dude. You are pushing it. Remember what I said about changing the ROE and getting banned? I have many friends who are Soldiers. Some have died within the last five years.


My attitude should not have been all that relavant, my qualifications should have been, I should have been able to get a direct commission into the army corp with the qualifications I had or with a few more flight hours into aviation which is what I was branched in the first place, of course the issues that crept in regarding national guard deployments makes it all irrelavant anyways because I dident join the guard to go to iraq. I dont care how sucky your attitude is people with engineering degrees dont dig ditches or get chewed out by basket weavers, unless they dont need you and thats fine too I can go else where but I refuse to be treated with disrespect after the hard work I went through to get an engineering degree on my own dime and my pilots licence on my own dime. Regarding my posts, my posts regarding this OP were directly related to the OP you probably just dident like my opinions so now all of a sudden everything I say slams the military, I even stated there are good people in the military but the system as a whole is corrupt. Military people are subject to gross amounts of time away from there kids that are hugely disperporcinate to any other civilian carrer field, and thats the bottom line if you want to call that a "slam on the military" whatever, its just the facts, and thats why so often the civilian parent can get custody unless there are some sort of extreme extenuating circumstances. As far as getting my a$$ kicked, im not going to walk into a dingy bar and and start randomly harrassing a military person because im not an idiot, I will ignore recruiters in the mall to the point of blatent disrespect but I dont say anything and if they attacked me I could nail them to the cross legally because I did not provok anything and believe it or not I am capable of defending myself, I may not win but he wont come out of it unscathed, and ultimately he losses because I will win legally and he will be totally f**ed legally and the military could get kicked out of the mall over an incident like that. So other than that I dont know what other opprotunity there would be for me to even be in the same room as someone in the military in uniform (I work with people in the military but they are in civilian clothes and if they act crazy I just report them)

Whole lotta words. You cannot practice ghin tzu on the message boards and so you will defend yourself with I Sue in court if attacked? Most .mil types don't need to beat up civilians just to prove themselves. They did that (proved themselves) in boot camp or basic. But, from time to time you will meet a dinosaur. Big, scaly, mean, green mother fucker with teeth who can do exactly as advertised and who is not impressed with college degrees or court dates. He may be due for extinction. But, until the comet hits I am the baddest motherfucker in the valley.

[pegwinn]

You must first spread more reputation before giving it to AF!!!!!

I hooked him up for ya.

[AFbombloader]

Ok, here goes nothing.



My attitude should not have been all that relavant, my qualifications should have been, Ever hear that attitude is everything? Your qualifications were good enough to get you into the National Guard. Lowest ASVAB requirements, lowest medical requirements, loosest morals and drug requirements.

I should have been able to get a direct commission into the Army corp with the qualifications I had or with a few more flight hours into aviation which is what I was branched in the first place, But you didn't get direct commission so either you weren't qualified for it, or were not savy enough to see what was happening to you.

of course the issues that crept in regarding National Guard deployments makes it all irrelavant anyways because I didn't join the guard to go to Iraq. You knew there was a possibility and signed your name anyway. So why you joined doesn't matter when the Op Order comes down.

I dont care how sucky your attitude is people with engineering degrees dont dig ditches or get chewed out by basket weavers, If they outrank you they do. And who lied to you and told you than an engineering degree made you the top of the heap? Get off your high horse. Your degree holds is the same as anyoe elses i the military. I kwow F-16 pilots with History degrees, are you better than them?

unless they dont need you and thats fine too I can go else where but I refuse to be treated with disrespect after the hard work I went through to get an engineering degree on my own dime and my pilots licence on my own dime. Yawn.


Regarding my posts, my posts regarding this OP were directly related to the OP you probably just didn't like my opinions so now all of a sudden everything I say slams the military, Go back an look at your posts! The majority of them do exactly what we said. They portray you as an "I'm better than all of the military" snob. Yes, you said there were good people in the military, but that does not outweigh everything else you said. You have slammed the services whenever you got a chance. Go back and look.

I even stated there are good people in the military but the system as a whole is corrupt. Military people are subject to gross amounts of time away from there kids that are hugely disperportionate to any other civilian carrer field, and thats the bottom line if you want to call that a "slam on the military" whatever, its just the facts, and thats why so often the civilian parent can get custody unless there are some sort of extreme extenuating circumstances.So because I have to go away I am not a good parent? Or I should not have my kids? Dude, I have deployed like 9 times and am on a year long trip now. Should I lose my kids?


As far as getting my a$$ kicked, im not going to walk into a dingy bar and and start randomly harrassing a military person because im not an idiot, I will ignore recruiters in the mall to the point of blatent disrespect but I dont say anything and if they attacked me I could nail them to the cross legally because I did not provok anything and believe it or not I am capable of defending myself, I may not win but he wont come out of it unscathed, and ultimately he losses because I will win legally and he will be totally f**ed legally and the military could get kicked out of the mall over an incident like that. So other than that I dont know what other opprotunity there would be for me to even be in the same room as someone in the military in uniform (I work with people in the military but they are in civilian clothes and if they act crazy I just report them) the rest of this is not on my concern. I didn't say any of this and you should answer the people who said that. I may agree,but I never posted it.

[rppearso]

Ok, here goes nothing.

"I should have been able to get a direct commission into the Army corp with the qualifications I had or with a few more flight hours into aviation which is what I was branched in the first place, But you didn't get direct commission so either you weren't qualified for it, or were not savy enough to see what was happening to you."

Ah touche, I should shut my mouth regarding this issue, because if I were savy enough I would not have joined in the first place. I am striking out. Regarding the kids though, unless you are in some sort of unique position for your parents or whoever to watch them while you are away until the end of time you should loose them, an absent parent is a bad parent regardless of how noble the cause for there absence.

[DragonStryk72]

"I should have been able to get a direct commission into the Army corp with the qualifications I had or with a few more flight hours into aviation which is what I was branched in the first place, But you didn't get direct commission so either you weren't qualified for it, or were not savy enough to see what was happening to you."

Ah touche, I should shut my mouth regarding this issue, because if I were savy enough I would not have joined in the first place. I am striking out. Regarding the kids though, unless you are in some sort of unique position for your parents or whoever to watch them while you are away until the end of time you should loose them, an absent parent is a bad parent regardless of how noble the cause for there absence.

You are not away until the END OF TIME. ALL Deployments have SET TIMES TO THEM. Now look, I have not slapped at you, but you refuse to admit you're ignorant and dug a hole with it.

[rppearso]

You are not away until the END OF TIME. ALL Deployments have SET TIMES TO THEM. Now look, I have not slapped at you, but you refuse to admit you're ignorant and dug a hole with it.

You should know that all deployments are subject to extention and can go up to 24 months with unknown extentions on top of that, how is that set, I know better than that.

[Nukeman]

"I should have been able to get a direct commission into the Army corp with the qualifications I had or with a few more flight hours into aviation which is what I was branched in the first place, But you didn't get direct commission so either you weren't qualified for it, or were not savy enough to see what was happening to you."

Ah touche, I should shut my mouth regarding this issue, because if I were savy enough I would not have joined in the first place. I am striking out. Regarding the kids though, unless you are in some sort of unique position for your parents or whoever to watch them while you are away until the end of time you should loose them, an absent parent is a bad parent regardless of how noble the cause for there absence.
This right here tells me what a piece of shit you are!!!! To make a callus statement like this is just plain ignorant.

How many children do you have??? Any???? If not you are niether able or qualified to give your opinion or "observation" on this topic. Most of the worst things done in our world today start with "it's for the children".

You are a piece of shit and that is all you will ever be. You have a bad attitude, obviously have a problem with authority, can't take orders without whinning like a bitch, and can't take discipline without screaming harrasment.

You are a selfabsorbed, whinny, pathetic little man... IF...... and I say IF you ever amount to anything I for one will be very surprised!!!

[AFbombloader]

"I should have been able to get a direct commission into the Army corp with the qualifications I had or with a few more flight hours into aviation which is what I was branched in the first place, But you didn't get direct commission so either you weren't qualified for it, or were not savy enough to see what was happening to you."

Ah touche, I should shut my mouth regarding this issue, because if I were savy enough I would not have joined in the first place. I am striking out. Regarding the kids though, unless you are in some sort of unique position for your parents or whoever to watch them while you are away until the end of time you should loose them, an absent parent is a bad parent regardless of how noble the cause for there absence.

So if we use your logic and apply it to a wider picture.....should every one of the millions of members of the greatest generation that served in WWII have lost their kids? Many of them served for 3-4 years....yeah, years without coming home for more than a few weeks of R&R. Would you have taken my mother away from my grandfather (101st Airborne, Normandy) as well as my two sons (very well adjusted even tho I am a "bad parent"?) Your opinion is plain wrong here. Just because an individual deploys or has a job where he is away does not mean he/she is a bad parent and should have no access to their children. What about truckers? They are away for weeks at a time? Or fishermen; the guys working on the oil rigs off the coast of CA and in the Gulf of Mexico??? See, when you apply it to other fields you can see how wrong it is. Also, I have seen many parents who were home every day who should have their kids taken away. Being there does not make you a good parent. It just makes you there.

[rppearso]

So if we use your logic and apply it to a wider picture.....should every one of the millions of members of the greatest generation that served in WWII have lost their kids? Many of them served for 3-4 years....yeah, years without coming home for more than a few weeks of R&R. Would you have taken my mother away from my grandfather (101st Airborne, Normandy) as well as my two sons (very well adjusted even tho I am a "bad parent"?) Your opinion is plain wrong here. Just because an individual deploys or has a job where he is away does not mean he/she is a bad parent and should have no access to their children. What about truckers? They are away for weeks at a time? Or fishermen; the guys working on the oil rigs off the coast of CA and in the Gulf of Mexico??? See, when you apply it to other fields you can see how wrong it is. Also, I have seen many parents who were home every day who should have their kids taken away. Being there does not make you a good parent. It just makes you there.

If you can find decent people to raise your kids while you are on extended deployments thats fine, but kids should not be passed around just so you can maintain custody. I agree there are crappy parents who are always there and im saying its ok for them to keep there kids either. You have to keep in mind no other carrer field requires such extreme absences even in oil fields its at most 4 to 6 weeks on with 2 to 4 weeks off not 2 years on 6 months off (and really that off time is not off you still have regular duty days where with shift rotations on oil pads when your off your off). So if you can make it work thats fine but if not the kid should not have to endure being passed around between relatives and switched schools etc etc just so you can stay in the military and keep custody. Is everyone just going to ignore how extreme military deployments can be which is the whole basis of my argument, if deployments were capped at 4-6 months and you only had to do one or 2 per 4 year hitch that would be a different story but thats not even close to the case.

[rppearso]

This right here tells me what a piece of shit you are!!!! To make a callus statement like this is just plain ignorant.

How many children do you have??? Any???? If not you are niether able or qualified to give your opinion or "observation" on this topic. Most of the worst things done in our world today start with "it's for the children".

You are a piece of shit and that is all you will ever be. You have a bad attitude, obviously have a problem with authority, can't take orders without whinning like a bitch, and can't take discipline without screaming harrasment.

You are a selfabsorbed, whinny, pathetic little man... IF...... and I say IF you ever amount to anything I for one will be very surprised!!!

Nice, way to not debate anything and just make a bunch of flames, you are right I have no respect for authority unless that authority earns my respect

[Monkeybone]

Nice, way to not debate anything and just make a bunch of flames, you are right I have no respect for authority unless that authority earns my respect

same goes for whiney-ass bastards that come in here with a superiority/wronged poor little me complex. way to earn our respect! :2up: