McCain Does Not Fit 'Conservative' Definition

[Pale Rider]

McCain Does Not Fit 'Conservative' Definition



Friday, January 25, 2008 8:01 AM
By: David Limbaugh

Many conservatives have said Sen. John McCain is not conservative enough to suit them. Some of McCain's defenders have not only disagreed but have impugned his critics, hypocritically blaming them for divisiveness. But intramural bickering isn't the issue.

What's important is that conservatives have an intellectually honest and open discussion about GOP presidential contenders.

It's disappointing to watch good conservatives demean themselves by trying to present McCain as something he's not. No matter how much they spin, they can't fool conservatives familiar with McCain's record. McCain's detractors are not the ones having to stretch and massage the facts in order to turn McCain — overnight — into a Reagan conservative.

McCain is not only not conservative enough; he has also has built a reputation as a maverick by stabbing his party in the back — not in furtherance of conservative principles but by betraying them. McCain delights in sticking it to his colleagues while winning accolades from the mainstream liberal media.

Article continues here... (http://www.newsmax.com/limbaugh/mccain/2008/01/25/67382.html)

[JohnDoe]

Here's the kicker though Pale, McCain may not be a "conservative" according to some or even according to many, but Romney is not one either.....and this is why many republicans in the know about this, are still supporting mccain imo.(i personally do not support him for his Iraq, 100 more years stance, or for the Hawkishness of him the past decade)

Granted, there is an easier route to tracking Mccain's liberal/conservative history through his voting record and a couple of heated issues that made him stand out, but if you do a little searching and putting two and two together, even without a voting record, you will find that Romney too, is not a "conservative" imho....

Or if he is one, he is quite wishy washy.... I suppose the bottom line is, Romney might be better looking, and might also TALK a good game, but he will be measuring his responses and running this country with the readings of the public polls and will sway with the best of the best Palm Trees... this IS WHO HE IS.....and any kind of real research on him, will show such imo.

jd

[Pale Rider]

Here's the kicker though Pale, McCain may not be a "conservative" according to some or even according to many, but Romney is not one either.....and this is why many republicans in the know about this, are still supporting mccain imo.(i personally do not support him for his Iraq, 100 more years stance, or for the Hawkishness of him the past decade)

Granted, there is an easier route to tracking Mccain's liberal/conservative history through his voting record and a couple of heated issues that made him stand out, but if you do a little searching and putting two and two together, even without a voting record, you will find that Romney too, is not a "conservative" imho....

Or if he is one, he is quite wishy washy.... I suppose the bottom line is, Romney might be better looking, and might also TALK a good game, but he will be measuring his responses and running this country with the readings of the public polls and will sway with the best of the best Palm Trees... this IS WHO HE IS.....and any kind of real research on him, will show such imo.

jd

With mccain, it's more than just "a couple issues" that separate him from true conservatives. See my other thread. (http://debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=11512) Romney may not be perfect, but he has nowhere near the history of "sticking it to his party" that mccain does. Not to mention mccain is surrounding himself with known open border attack dogs like his outreach director, "mexico first" juan hernandez (http://debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=11488), and neoconservatives like giuliani and schwarzenegger, and piling up endorsements from the biggest liberal outlets in the country like the NYT and the LA times. There's no question mccain is a liberal. Romney on the other hand, one has to spin, twist, and contort his record in order to even come close to the same conclusion.

[JohnDoe]

Setting that aside, it could be that the "power" behind the RNC or GOP, have decided that they WANT to lose this election, thus putting forth mccain and giving him a nice pat on the way out the door.

"They" may want the republicans to lose because we are coming in to a recession, the housing bust has got another year of record bankruptcies, and devaluing of ALL of our homes, the baby boomers coming in to retirement and medicare costs going through the roof...a whole bunch of negative crud coming our way in the next economic cycle that they think they can exploit if the Democrats are in control and earn more seats back in the Senate and HOuse and also probably an assured presidency down the road....

The big wigs of each party really run the show....

I am about ready to give up the electoral college and the way we do primaries and caucuses with delegates....i am ready for one man one vote to mean something again..... :(

Anyway, my thoughts are....there is more than what we happen to see or they allow us to see going on behind the scenes imho.

jd

[Dilloduck]

McCain Does Not Fit 'Conservative' Definition



Friday, January 25, 2008 8:01 AM
By: David Limbaugh

Many conservatives have said Sen. John McCain is not conservative enough to suit them. Some of McCain's defenders have not only disagreed but have impugned his critics, hypocritically blaming them for divisiveness. But intramural bickering isn't the issue.

What's important is that conservatives have an intellectually honest and open discussion about GOP presidential contenders.

It's disappointing to watch good conservatives demean themselves by trying to present McCain as something he's not. No matter how much they spin, they can't fool conservatives familiar with McCain's record. McCain's detractors are not the ones having to stretch and massage the facts in order to turn McCain — overnight — into a Reagan conservative.

McCain is not only not conservative enough; he has also has built a reputation as a maverick by stabbing his party in the back — not in furtherance of conservative principles but by betraying them. McCain delights in sticking it to his colleagues while winning accolades from the mainstream liberal media.

Article continues here... (http://www.newsmax.com/limbaugh/mccain/2008/01/25/67382.html)

Just think North American Union. That about covers it all.

[Pale Rider]

Setting that aside, it could be that the "power" behind the RNC or GOP, have decided that they WANT to lose this election, thus putting forth mccain and giving him a nice pat on the way out the door.

"They" may want the republicans to lose because we are coming in to a recession, the housing bust has got another year of record bankruptcies, and devaluing of ALL of our homes, the baby boomers coming in to retirement and medicare costs going through the roof...a whole bunch of negative crud coming our way in the next economic cycle that they think they can exploit if the Democrats are in control and earn more seats back in the Senate and HOuse and also probably an assured presidency down the road....

The big wigs of each party really run the show....

I am about ready to give up the electoral college and the way we do primaries and caucuses with delegates....i am ready for one man one vote to mean something again..... :(

Anyway, my thoughts are....there is more than what we happen to see or they allow us to see going on behind the scenes imho.

jd

Interesting theory JD, and who knows... you could be more right than we'll ever know.

I'm voting, but not for mccain. I'll write my vote in if mccain is the repub nominee. And I'm almost with you. I almost wish that mccain would get the nod and lose in a land slide. Maybe then the republican party would get it's head out of it's ass and quit trying to push these RINO's and neoconservatives at us.

[Dilloduck]

Interesting theory JD, and who knows... you could be more right than we'll ever know.

I'm voting, but not for mccain. I'll write my vote in if mccain is the repub nominee. And I'm almost with you. I almost wish that mccain would get the nod and lose in a land slide. Maybe then the republican party would get it's head out of it's ass and quit trying to push these RINO's and neoconservatives at us.

Both parties want a North American union.


check it out

http://www.nowpublic.com/obama-cfr

[JohnDoe]

With mccain, it's more than just "a couple issues" that separate him from true conservatives. See my other thread. (http://debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=11512) Romney may not be perfect, but he has nowhere near the history of "sticking it to his party" that mccain does. Not to mention mccain is surrounding himself with known open border attack dogs like his outreach director, "mexico first" juan hernandez (http://debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=11488), and neoconservatives like giuliani and schwarzenegger, and piling up endorsements from the biggest liberal outlets in the country like the NYT and the LA times. There's no question mccain is a liberal. Romney on the other hand, one has to spin, twist, and contort his record in order to even come close to the same conclusion.

okkkkkk

Then if this is the case, WHAT record of Romney's can you point out to me, that assures you without any twisting, that he is a conservative? I am all ears, cuz right now i don't see what you say is there, as far as true conservatism.

Did Romney do anything to rid Boston of their illegal alien population when he was in massachusetts? Did he even talk about doing anything?

Did Romney donate money and visit prochoice groups and assure them they had his support in massachusetts in order to win an election there....?

Did Romney increase taxes by $700 million through regulatory state fees while he was governor?

Did Romney sign in to law MANDATORY universal health care through the private sector for all massachusetts citizens?

Now, as i said, i am all ears to hear what you can find in Romney's record, that is a limited record compared to McCain's no question, but anything that really makes YOU think, (all on your lonesome) that Romney has some sort of conservative record?

And btw, i am just playing devil's advocate here! :)

jd

[JohnDoe]

Both parties want a North American union.


check it out

http://www.nowpublic.com/obama-cfr


yah, but i bet Romney with his supposed "business" experience and background supports this moreso than most politicians....

still haven't read the link yet....that wasn't a comment regarding the link, but just my thinking on how the north American union and the cross country highway from mexico to canada is FOR BUSINESSES.....so Romney would be their "man" for the job to git it done....is just some pondering type thoughts based on what i do know about it all....hmmmm...


jd

[Dilloduck]

yah, but i bet Romney with his supposed "business" experience and background supports this moreso than most politicians....

still haven't read the link yet....that wasn't a comment regarding the link, but just my thinking on how the north American union and the cross country highway from mexico to canada is FOR BUSINESSES.....so Romney would be their "man" for the job to git it done....is just some pondering type thoughts based on what i do know about it all....hmmmm...


jd

A candidate who is NOT for the NAU doesn't have a chance but Romney is toast. The only question now is who is going to face McCain

[JohnDoe]

A candidate who is NOT for the NAU doesn't have a chance but Romney is toast. The only question now is who is going to face McCain
Obama or Hillary.... I think it is time for the two of them to leak who might be their cabinet picks.... we need much more info before the decision between the two is really made... and we need some real specifics on things before hillary should be chosen over obama or visa versa imho.

and i still believe if it is obama vs mccain, mccain could win, a good possibility of such....depending if there is any foreign rumors of war going on... people might feel mccain is the one with experience....

If it is Clinton against mccain, i think that clinton will win.

If it is Clinton vs Romney, then it could be a flip of the coin....their healthcare plans are the exact same....he's better looking than she is....:)

I guess if i had to venture out, i would say, a clinton verses romney is also a win for clinton, cuz alot of dems will come out with a vote against romney...

jd

[Dilloduck]

Obama or Hillary.... I think it is time for the two of them to leak who might be their cabinet picks.... we need much more info before the decision between the two is really made... and we need some real specifics on things before hillary should be chosen over obama or visa versa imho.

and i still believe if it is obama vs mccain, mccain could win, a good possibility of such....depending if there is any foreign rumors of war going on... people might feel mccain is the one with experience....

If it is Clinton against mccain, i think that clinton will win.

If it is Clinton vs Romney, then it could be a flip of the coin....their healthcare plans are the exact same....he's better looking than she is....:)

I guess if i had to venture out, i would say, a clinton verses romney is also a win for clinton, cuz alot of dems will come out with a vote against romney...

jd

To quote from a great movie-------IT JUST DOESN"T MATTER !

Tripper: And even if we win, if we win, HAH! Even if we win! Even if we play so far above our heads that our noses bleed for a week to ten days; even if God in Heaven above comes down and points his hand at our side of the field; even if every man woman and child held hands together and prayed for us to win, it just wouldn't matter because all the really good looking girls would still go out with the guys from Mohawk because they've got all the money! It just doesn't matter if we win or we lose. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER!
Rest of group: IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER! IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER...


http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0079540/quotes

[Dilloduck]

we need much more info before the decision between the two is really made... and we need some real specifics on things before hillary should be chosen over obama or visa versa imho.

Then someone needs to sit them down and ask them both about the CFR and NAU. Then ask McCain and Romney the same question.

[JohnDoe]

Then someone needs to sit them down and ask them both about the CFR and NAU. Then ask McCain and Romney the same question.yah, for sure! I am reading the first link now...before giving up the internet line to the hubby.

oh, and good morning Dillo.

jd

[Dilloduck]

yah, for sure! I am reading the first link now...before giving up the internet line to the hubby.

oh, and good morning Dillo.

jd

Here's McCains mushmouth stab at dealing with illegal immigration and I don't see any candidate thats willing to me more firm with them. America is going to have it's sovereignty given away by traitors that we elect under the guise of helping our economy, helping the environment and protecting us from terrorism. The perfect storm.


Border Security & Immigration Reform


Immigration is one of those challenging issues that touch on many aspects of American life.
I have always believed that our border must be secure and that the federal government has utterly failed in its responsibility to ensure that it is secure. If we have learned anything from the recent immigration debate, it is that Americans have little trust that their government will honor a pledge to do the things necessary to make the border secure.

As president, I will secure the border. I will restore the trust Americans should have in the basic competency of their government. A secure border is an essential element of our national security. Tight border security includes not just the entry and exit of people, but also the effective screening of cargo at our ports and other points of entry.

But a secure border will contribute to addressing our immigration problem most effectively if we also:


Recognize the importance of building strong allies in Mexico and Latin America who reject the siren call of authoritarians like Hugo Chavez, support freedom and democracy, and seek strong domestic economies with abundant economic opportunities for their citizens.

Recognize the importance of pro-growth policies -- keeping government spending in check, holding down taxes, and cutting unnecessary regulatory burdens -- so American businesses can hire and pay the best.

Recognize the importance of a flexible labor market to keep employers in business and our economy on top. It should provide skilled Americans and immigrants with opportunity. Our education system should ensure skills for our younger workers, and our retraining and assistance programs for displaced workers must be modernized so they can pursue those opportunities

Recognize the importance of assimilation of our immigrant population, which includes learning English, American history and civics, and respecting the values of a democratic society.

Recognize that America will always be that "shining city upon a hill," a beacon of hope and opportunity for those seeking a better life built on hard work and optimism.
Border security and our failed immigration system are more examples of an ailing Washington culture in need of reform to regain the trust of Americans. In too many areas -- from immigration and pork barrel spending to Social Security, health care, energy security and tax relief -- business-as-usual politics prevents addressing the important challenges facing our nation.

[gabosaurus]

McCain sounds like he is already campaigning in the General Election. He is saying different things to conservatives and moderates. He denies being "liberal," yet reached out to liberal interests when he was campaigning in California.

[Dilloduck]

McCain sounds like he is already campaigning in the General Election. He is saying different things to conservatives and moderates. He denies being "liberal," yet reached out to liberal interests when he was campaigning in California.

He knows he's the annointed one. and disgustingly cocky I might add---. He reminds me of Lieberman whne he was running as VP nominee. All giggly and full of himself.

[Pale Rider]

okkkkkk

Then if this is the case, WHAT record of Romney's can you point out to me, that assures you without any twisting, that he is a conservative? I am all ears, cuz right now i don't see what you say is there, as far as true conservatism.

Did Romney do anything to rid Boston of their illegal alien population when he was in massachusetts? Did he even talk about doing anything?

Did Romney donate money and visit prochoice groups and assure them they had his support in massachusetts in order to win an election there....?

Did Romney increase taxes by $700 million through regulatory state fees while he was governor?

Did Romney sign in to law MANDATORY universal health care through the private sector for all massachusetts citizens?

Now, as i said, i am all ears to hear what you can find in Romney's record, that is a limited record compared to McCain's no question, but anything that really makes YOU think, (all on your lonesome) that Romney has some sort of conservative record?

And btw, i am just playing devil's advocate here! :)

jd

Lots of questions I believe you could answer yourself quite easily with five or ten minutes on the internet JD, which I'd prefer you do. I'm not going to do it all for you just to have you trash it all when I post it. I'm not trying to convince you to vote for Romney here... I'm trying it get you to NOT vote for mccain, which I have EXTENSIVELY posted reason WHY NOT. But then again, you ARE a liberal. The more liberal I expose mccain as being, the more you probably like him.

[Pale Rider]

A candidate who is NOT for the NAU doesn't have a chance but Romney is toast. The only question now is who is going to face McCain

I don't think that's even predictable. It may even come right down to the convention with all four of the candidates we still have.

[Dilloduck]

I don't think that's even predictable. It may even come right down to the convention with all four of the candidates we still have.

All of which are CFR members. It just doesn't matter.

[JohnDoe]

Lots of questions I believe you could answer yourself quite easily with five or ten minutes on the internet JD, which I'd prefer you do. I'm not going to do it all for you just to have you trash it all when I post it. I'm not trying to convince you to vote for Romney here... I'm trying it get you to NOT vote for mccain, which I have EXTENSIVELY posted reason WHY NOT. But then again, you ARE a liberal. The more liberal I expose mccain as being, the more you probably like him.

heyyyyyyyy pale

Bulloney, I have already told you the main reason why i don't support mccain...and your comment on me probably liking him because i am a "liberal" is hogwash...and you know it!

I mean, have i given you any reason for you to label me as such? I am a moderate! :) with liberal leanings....:laugh2:

jd

[Pale Rider]

heyyyyyyyy pale

Bulloney, I have already told you the main reason why i don't support mccain...and your comment on me probably liking him because i am a "liberal" is hogwash...and you know it!

I mean, have i given you any reason for you to label me as such? I am a moderate! :) with liberal leanings....:laugh2:

jd

Sorry then.... I know liberal is a dirty word... :laugh:

Didn't you start out here leaning pretty heavy that way? Please correct me if I'm wrong. You're a pretty decent poster, and I wouldn't want to unfairly label you a liberal.

[JohnDoe]

Sorry then.... I know liberal is a dirty word... :laugh:

Didn't you start out here leaning pretty heavy that way? Please correct me if I'm wrong. You're a pretty decent poster, and I wouldn't want to unfairly label you a liberal.
I have always been a Moderate or Centrist, take the side of Liberals on some things and the side of conservatives on others and the side of Libertarians on others....

ANYONE who is not right wing that comes on to this site is accused of being Liberal in the negative sense!!! So yes, I am sure all of you guys accused me of being such!!!! lol In fact I nearly RAN like the dickens away from here when i was going through my initiation period with you guys....damn near cried every night!!! LOL


btw, "liberal" is a beautiful word....;)the definition gives me goose bumps! It's too bad that it no longer has the meaning originally given to it in the unabridged dictionary!

And last but not least, Good Morning Pale!

jd

[Pale Rider]

I have always been a Moderate or Centrist, take the side of Liberals on some things and the side of conservatives on others and the side of Libertarians on others....

ANYONE who is not right wing that comes on to this site is accused of being Liberal in the negative sense!!! So yes, I am sure all of you guys accused me of being such!!!! lol In fact I nearly RAN like the dickens away from here when i was going through my initiation period with you guys....damn near cried every night!!! LOL


btw, "liberal" is a beautiful word....;)the definition gives me goose bumps! It's too bad that it no longer has the meaning originally given to it in the unabridged dictionary!

And last but not least, Good Morning Pale!

jd

Well, I'll admit I'm pretty hard right, Christian, conservative. So yeah, liberal to me does carry some pretty heavy duty negative connotations. But I'll remember you saying you're a centrist... :salute:

And good morning jd... :coffee:

[Pale Rider]

Just our two new mccain campaign plants. Please read...