Stimulus package just big government welfare!

[gene430]

Here we go again, instead of the markets being allowed to run their natural course, we have politicians trying to play God.
http://www.politibyte.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=43

No one wants a recession, but, every market has its peaks and valleys. Remember the crash of 1987, that was followed by one of the biggest run ups in history. Who is to say a recession now would not be a great buying opportunity?

Four weeks ago the Democrats were complaining that Bush has spent us into bankruptcy with the war in Iraq. Now all of a sudden we can come up with $150 billion to spark the economy? Where is this money going to come from? I thought we were broke?

Wake up America. Politicians are spending your money in order to get themselves elected. Doesn't everyone see the hypocrisy of this?

[Dilloduck]

Here we go again, instead of the markets being allowed to run their natural course, we have politicians trying to play God.
http://www.politibyte.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=43

No one wants a recession, but, every market has its peaks and valleys. Remember the crash of 1987, that was followed by one of the biggest run ups in history. Who is to say a recession now would not be a great buying opportunity?

Four weeks ago the Democrats were complaining that Bush has spent us into bankruptcy with the war in Iraq. Now all of a sudden we can come up with $150 billion to spark the economy? Where is this money going to come from? I thought we were broke?

Wake up America. Politicians are spending your money in order to get themselves elected. Doesn't everyone see the hypocrisy of this?

Fire up that priniting press !! We'll all be rich !!!!

[82Marine89]

Four weeks ago the Democrats were complaining that Bush has spent us into bankruptcy with the war in Iraq. Now all of a sudden we can come up with $150 billion to spark the economy? Where is this money going to come from? I thought we were broke?



That's our money and the folks in Washington think by giving it back to us that they are doing us a favor. Fuck them and fuck this stimulus package. I say we go back to the days when folks had to write a check to the IRS when taxes were due instead of the employers removing it from paychecks. I guaranfuckingtee that there will be a revolt.

[bullypulpit]

Fuck the check. How about long term investment in rebuilding crumbling infrastructure in this country? Generate good paying jobs in the construction industry rebuilding/repairing highways...schools...water systems...the possibilities are enormous, and would provide a longer term stimulus than a 600 dollar check. But then, that would require elected officials capable of seeing beyond their own political fortunes. For the most part, such individuals are lacking on both sides of the aisles

[red states rule]

Fuck the check. How about long term investment in rebuilding crumbling infrastructure in this country? Generate good paying jobs in the construction industry rebuilding/repairing highways...schools...water systems...the possibilities are enormous, and would provide a longer term stimulus than a 600 dollar check. But then, that would require elected officials capable of seeing beyond their own political fortunes. For the most part, such individuals are lacking on both sides of the aisles

Infrastructure is funded by gas taxes. last I saw they have not been cut (taxes add 40 to 60 cents to the price of a gallon of gas)

Then you have state and local budgets that fund infrastructure programs

The Federal budget is near $3 trillion - the government is awash with money. perhaps if the Dems honor the promise they made to cut the pork, maybe they could find more money to fund the things you say are desperate for more vital government funding

[Kathianne]

Bush appears determined to follow the road to failure that Carter did. Tax rebates. Reneging on his own policy of the road to two state solution, requires the end of rockets falling in Israel. His general demeanor of malaise. He has a chance to turn some of this around tonight, my guess is he won't.

[red states rule]

I have no problem with taxpayers getting more of their money back. I do not like people who do NOT pay taxes getting a tax rebate

Overal the economy is doing fine. There is no huge crisis

Here are the numbers that show the sky is not falling

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120147855494820719.html?mod=opinion_main_comment aries

[Kathianne]

I have no problem with taxpayers getting more of their money back. I do not like people who do NOT pay taxes getting a tax rebate

Overal the economy is doing fine. There is no huge crisis

Here are the numbers that show the sky is not falling

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120147855494820719.html?mod=opinion_main_comment aries

There's no reason for anyone to get 'rebate.' Tax cuts would be justified, IF they weren't borrowing the money for the rebates. Bottom line, first cut spending, then taxes.

[red states rule]

There's no reason for anyone to get 'rebate.' Tax cuts would be justified, IF they weren't borrowing the money for the rebates. Bottom line, first cut spending, then taxes.

Yes spending needs to be cut. This current Congress ran on the failures of the previous Republican Congress (and they had a valid point)

But alas, they are worse then the Republicans are

One can hope if they have less money to blow on pork - they might actually cut the pork

[glockmail]

This whole thing makes me sick. All it is is transfer of wealth from the upper middle class on up to those poorer.

[red states rule]

This whole thing makes me sick. All it is is transfer of wealth from the upper middle class on up to those poorer.

I would like to know how Dems extending unemployment benefits will help the economy

All it will do is make people sit on thier ass longer and NOT work

[Classact]

There's no reason for anyone to get 'rebate.' Tax cuts would be justified, IF they weren't borrowing the money for the rebates. Bottom line, first cut spending, then taxes.If we had 100 senators that think like this guy we would have a budget surplus http://coburn.senate.gov/ffm/ Please take time to look at this resume.

Has everyone forgotten that poor taxpayers, those who only pay SS/Medicare get an UnEarned Tax refund every year of $1,000.00 already?

[red states rule]

If we had 100 senators that think like this guy we would have a budget surplus http://coburn.senate.gov/ffm/ Please take time to look at this resume.

Has everyone forgotten that poor taxpayers, those who only pay SS/Medicare get an UnEarned Tax refund every year of $1,000.00 already?


Yes they get the UnEarned Tax credit - so why give them MORE of OUR money?

Dems want to keep these people hooked on the handouts and not go out and earn an better life

[glockmail]

I would like to know how Dems extending unemployment benefits will help the economy

All it will do is make people sit on thier ass longer and NOT work Any "solution" the Dems comes up with causes people to work less and the government to spend more.

[red states rule]

Any "solution" the Dems comes up with causes people to work less and the government to spend more.

By doing that they increase their gold and power over the masses that actually believe the Dems "care" about them

[glockmail]

By doing that they increase their gold and power over the masses that actually believe the Dems "care" about them
If you mean hold and power than that would be correct. That is their only goal.

[gabosaurus]

Fuck the check. How about long term investment in rebuilding crumbling infrastructure in this country? Generate good paying jobs in the construction industry rebuilding/repairing highways...schools...water systems...the possibilities are enormous, and would provide a longer term stimulus than a 600 dollar check. But then, that would require elected officials capable of seeing beyond their own political fortunes. For the most part, such individuals are lacking on both sides of the aisles

:clap:

[Hagbard Celine]

Fuck the check. How about long term investment in rebuilding crumbling infrastructure in this country? Generate good paying jobs in the construction industry rebuilding/repairing highways...schools...water systems...the possibilities are enormous, and would provide a longer term stimulus than a 600 dollar check. But then, that would require elected officials capable of seeing beyond their own political fortunes. For the most part, such individuals are lacking on both sides of the aisles
While they're rebuilding everything they could also build trains leading into every major city that service all the surrounding suburbs. If we're really serious about becoming "energy independent," we need to get our heads out of our asses and invest in public transportation. If I could spend $1000 for a year pass on the metro I'd save thousands every year on gasoline for my personal automobile and the country would save billions.

[glockmail]

While they're rebuilding everything they could also build trains leading into every major city that service all the surrounding suburbs. If we're really serious about becoming "energy independent," we need to get our heads out of our asses and invest in public transportation. If I could spend $1000 for a year pass on the metro I'd save thousands every year on gasoline for my personal automobile and the country would save billions. Although I do not agree that spending money on public projects is a good economic stimulus I do agree that the US train system is severely lacking. Trains are underused for metropolitan transport as well as inter-city routes and long distance freight hauls. The government subsidized Con-Rail and AmTrak are soley to blame for the second two issues.

[JohnDoe]

I would like to know how Dems extending unemployment benefits will help the economy

All it will do is make people sit on thier ass longer and NOT work


good afternoon Rsr...

I watched the capital hill hearing on this on c-span. The reason extending unemplyment benefits for those that are falling off is an excellent stimulus is because this money would go right back in to the economy IMMEDIATELY and be spent IMMEDIATELY, with most all of this money coming right back in to the economy according statistics, along with giving rebates to those with income under 40k....on average, 67% of this money given will go right in to the economy, verses giving a rebate to someone who makes over 100k, where only 32% of these rebates went back in to the economy....they based these results on FACTS from the last rebates given by president bush.

waiting for the rebates alone and until May or June before they get in to our hands due to being in income tax filing season is waiting too long and is not an immediate stimulus to the economy where as extending unemplyment would get money in to the economy immediately, as i said.

these rebates and stimulus package, in the manner they are doing it will affect the economy the LEAST....and is a waste of money, if it is REALLY ONLY about stimulating the economy....

But of course it is NOT.

IT is about buying votes from both sides of the aisle....imo.

jd

[82Marine89]

This whole thing makes me sick. All it is is transfer of wealth from the upper middle class on up to those poorer.

Didn't you know Robin Hood lives in Washington D.C.? [/sarcasm]

[JohnDoe]

This whole thing makes me sick. All it is is transfer of wealth from the upper middle class on up to those poorer.

Not necessarily!

It is a tax rebate....$100 billion of it, comes from our own taxes and when we file our returns this money will not be there as a refund if let's say you normally would get a refund after filing, is my understanding of it?

Then $50 billion is perhaps stealing from the wealthy that get phased out of the rebate, and giving to Small Businesses in tax incentives and tax breaks.

Yes, those that work for a living that happened to owe nothing in income tax because their income is below $15 grand or so that automatic tax exemptions for the two brings them to a position of owing nothing in income tax for the $15k.....

Well think of it this way, the wealthiest or ANY couple higher than 15k in income that pays taxes, also got the FIRST $15K of their income exempt from income taxes as the original example implies....the below $15k couple.

The $300 per person, $600 for this couple, puts the money in to the hands of the people most likely to put that money directly back in to the economy in the timeliest manner.... This is NOT suppose to be about who paid what, in to taxes, this is SUPPOSE to be a stimulus to the economy plan....something to get it kicking....

ONCE it gets kicking, the small businesses, the Big Businesses, the average joe out there with a better job opportunity ends up benefiting much more so than that guy at the bottom with the initial hit....

At least in THEORY......hahahahahaha! And this was what was being touted in the c-span hearings i watched on this.....and honestly, it does make sense.

And extended unemployment benefits for those ready to fall off that have still not found a job was one of the things some office, i think it was the GAO?, had said was shown as getting back in to the economy the quickest.

Now, i can't say that i agree with the strategy that has been put forth....looks like a buy off to me.... for votes in the future election imho!

And I also can NOT speak to the amount of money needed to be put back in to the economy to tweak it enough to at least shorten the length of the inevitable recession that i think we are in already.... I am clueless, and $150 billion might be the magic number....but it doesn't seem so, cuz in truth the small business breaks of $50 billion will really be the least effective for stimulus and the tax breaks to those couples making $150k is also the least stimulating....so alot of money is being thrown out there that will not hit anybody's bottom line and will not spur a thing....but campaign donations spurred perhaps :(!

jd

[red states rule]

good afternoon Rsr...

I watched the capital hill hearing on this on c-span. The reason extending unemplyment benefits for those that are falling off is an excellent stimulus is because this money would go right back in to the economy IMMEDIATELY and be spent IMMEDIATELY, with most all of this money coming right back in to the economy according statistics, along with giving rebates to those with income under 40k....on average, 67% of this money given will go right in to the economy, verses giving a rebate to someone who makes over 100k, where only 32% of these rebates went back in to the economy....they based these results on FACTS from the last rebates given by president bush.

waiting for the rebates alone and until May or June before they get in to our hands due to being in income tax filing season is waiting too long and is not an immediate stimulus to the economy where as extending unemplyment would get money in to the economy immediately, as i said.

these rebates and stimulus package, in the manner they are doing it will affect the economy the LEAST....and is a waste of money, if it is REALLY ONLY about stimulating the economy....

But of course it is NOT.

IT is about buying votes from both sides of the aisle....imo.

jd

Good morning JD

JD, people have SIX MONTHS of unemployment benefits - SIX MONTHS to find a job. Hell, I pass a McDonalds everyday on my way to work and they are offering $12/hr plus health benefits

If you can't find a job in SIX MONTHS - you are not looking

Between the tax rebates, falling interest rates, and Dems making the tax cuts permanent will be ahuge boost to the economy

But that is the last thing Dems want. They want failure when it comes to the US economy - much like they did for Iraq (which they call Bush's war)

[gene430]

Good morning JD

JD, people have SIX MONTHS of unemployment benefits - SIX MONTHS to find a job. Hell, I pass a McDonalds everyday on my way to work and they are offering $12/hr plus health benefits

If you can't find a job in SIX MONTHS - you are not looking

Between the tax rebates, falling interest rates, and Dems making the tax cuts permanent will be ahuge boost to the economy

But that is the last thing Dems want. They want failure when it comes to the US economy - much like they did for Iraq (which they call Bush's war)

You hit the ball out the park with your last statement. Good post

[red states rule]

You hit the ball out the park with your last statement. Good post

It is easy to counter the posts of libs Gene

All you have to do is use logic, common sense, and reason

Something you do as well in your posts

[Classact]

I think the Democrats in the Senate will change the package so much that it will be vetoed. Bush will remind the people that he did not stutter in his speech about what was expected of congress.

And that would be a good thing!

[red states rule]

I think the Democrats in the Senate will change the package so much that it will be vetoed. Bush will remind the people that he did not stutter in his speech about what was expected of congress.

And that would be a good thing!

That may happen. It is well know Dems would rather have election time issues, then actually solve problems

[glockmail]

I think the Democrats in the Senate will change the package so much that it will be vetoed. Bush will remind the people that he did not stutter in his speech about what was expected of congress.

And that would be a good thing!
Its a piss-poor state of affairs when we have to hope that Democrats will come in and save the day here.

[red states rule]

Its a piss-poor state of affairs when we have to hope that Democrats will come in and save the day here.

Why the hell would Dems come in and save the day? Dems live for the failure of the US economy as they did in Iraq

Good thing for us they will lose that fight as they did in their dreams of surrender in Iraq

BTW, check out how mortgage rates have fallen

http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/rates/

[Classact]

Its a piss-poor state of affairs when we have to hope that Democrats will come in and save the day here.That's a good point! I hope the liberals load that bill up to the brim and Bush veto's it and at the same time announces the Senate took to long trying to buy votes with more pork... then he saves the day by flooding the oil market with the strategic oil reserve causing the gas prices to fall along with heating fuel to spur the economy.

[glockmail]

That's a good point! I hope the liberals load that bill up to the brim and Bush veto's it and at the same time announces the Senate took to long trying to buy votes with more pork... then he saves the day by flooding the oil market with the strategic oil reserve causing the gas prices to fall along with heating fuel to spur the economy. There's not enough there to flood it, and besides, that's not what its for. If he opened up ANWR and the east coast to drilling, OPEC would respond by dropping oil prices and trying to discourage private investements from buying the drilling rights. All Americans would save at the pump and for heat, injecting more money into the economy than a lousy 600 buck giveaway, and it wouldn't cost us a red cent. The only downside is we'd have a lot of pissed of environmental whackos...

[red states rule]

There's not enough there to flood it, and besides, that's not what its for. If he opened up ANWR and the east coast to drilling, OPEC would respond by dropping oil prices and trying to discourage private investements from buying the drilling rights. All Americans would save at the pump and for heat, injecting more money into the economy than a lousy 600 buck giveaway, and it wouldn't cost us a red cent. The only downside is we'd have a lot of pissed of environmental whackos...

How is it a downside to have pissed of environmental whackos?

[Classact]

There's not enough there to flood it, and besides, that's not what its for. If he opened up ANWR and the east coast to drilling, OPEC would respond by dropping oil prices and trying to discourage private investements from buying the drilling rights. All Americans would save at the pump and for heat, injecting more money into the economy than a lousy 600 buck giveaway, and it wouldn't cost us a red cent. The only downside is we'd have a lot of pissed of environmental whackos...But the president doesn't have the authority to open ANWR/coastal drilling, only congress can do that. If you take a look at this link http://www.fossil.energy.gov/programs/reserves/ you will see in 2005 the reserve was expanded and exceeds defence stocks by far... much of the oil was purchased at $50 a barrel and could be sold for $50 a barrel... when that happened world oil prices would fall to $50/$60 a barrel within days... then the reserve could be refilled with the lowered priced oil offered on the market without knowledge of the OPEC dealers.

[red states rule]

But the president doesn't have the authority to open ANWR/coastal drilling, only congress can do that. If you take a look at this link http://www.fossil.energy.gov/programs/reserves/ you will see in 2005 the reserve was expanded and exceeds defence stocks by far... much of the oil was purchased at $50 a barrel and could be sold for $50 a barrel... when that happened world oil prices would fall to $50/$60 a barrel within days... then the reserve could be refilled with the lowered priced oil offered on the market without knowledge of the OPEC dealers.

and in 2000, if the Dems would have started drilling in ANWR, the oil could be flowing right now

Another failure of the Dems and the enviro wackos

[glockmail]

But the president doesn't have the authority to open ANWR/coastal drilling, only congress can do that. If you take a look at this link http://www.fossil.energy.gov/programs/reserves/ you will see in 2005 the reserve was expanded and exceeds defence stocks by far... much of the oil was purchased at $50 a barrel and could be sold for $50 a barrel... when that happened world oil prices would fall to $50/$60 a barrel within days... then the reserve could be refilled with the lowered priced oil offered on the market without knowledge of the OPEC dealers.

Good point I did not realize that we had so much. Best use it before the tanks leak! j/k

Republicans should have acted on drilling when they had the congress.

[Classact]

and in 2000, if the Eems would have started drilling in ANWR, the oil could be flowing right now

Another failure of the Dems and the enviro wackosI agree. If you look at the sub links on the aforementioned link you will find the reserve has been used a lot... http://www.fossil.energy.gov/programs/reserves/spr/spr-drawdown.html

Non-Emergency Sales
Although the Reserve was established to cushion oil markets during energy disruptions, three times during 1996, non-emergency sales of oil from the Reserve were authorized by Congress to raise revenues. The total quantity sold was 28.1 million barrels. Hey that was the Clinton years?

[glockmail]

...
Hey that was the Clinton years?
Looks like Clinton ordered non-emergency sales three times, twice "to reduce the federal budget deficit". That makes sense, fill it up at high cost and sell it at low cost. I wonder what the net interest rate we paid was. :lame2:

[Classact]

Looks like Clinton ordered non-emergency sales three times, twice "to reduce the federal budget deficit". That makes sense, fill it up at high cost and sell it at low cost. I wonder what the net interest rate we paid was. :lame2:We were wallowing in an era of prosperity with projected budget surpluses? I say sell some oil at our costs now.

[glockmail]

We were wallowing in an era of prosperity with projected budget surpluses? I say sell some oil at our costs now. It appears that sales must be at or above 97.5% market, so at Crude around 100 bucks, now would be a good time. Its a better plan than taking money from the upper middle class and giving it to those who make less.