The Story of Stuff

[typomaniac]

I don't agree with every single thing this woman says, but the technical information she explains is very accurate.

Watch the entire video before you start poking holes in it. (I think it's fairly interesting whether you agree with it or not.)

http://www.storyofstuff.com

[Psychoblues]

Sorry, tm, I'm on dial up. "Stuff" like that just ain't easy for me. Have you ever heard the "stuff" argument by George Carlin? Google it!!!!!! It's GREAT!!!!!




I don't agree with every single thing this woman says, but the technical information she explains is very accurate.

Watch the entire video before you start poking holes in it. (I think it's fairly interesting whether you agree with it or not.)

http://www.storyofstuff.com

I suspect your link is very informative and entertaining. I have nothing positive or negative beyond that to say about it.

[Dilloduck]

I don't agree with every single thing this woman says, but the technical information she explains is very accurate.

Watch the entire video before you start poking holes in it. (I think it's fairly interesting whether you agree with it or not.)

http://www.storyofstuff.com

I thought it was fairly well done but again--solutions to the problem were lacking. They had a great little chart explaining a problem but NO chart when it came to explaining a solution.

[typomaniac]

I thought it was fairly well done but again--solutions to the problem were lacking. They had a great little chart explaining a problem but NO chart when it came to explaining a solution.

Frankly, I doubt that anyone has an elegant solution to the problem yet.

That doesn't mean that people can't or shouldn't take steps to minimize the damage that each of the five steps in the linear model does to the closed system of the planet. Not to mention the damage that it does to nations, including the US.

[Psychoblues]

What steps do we need to take, typo?




Frankly, I doubt that anyone has an elegant solution to the problem yet.

That doesn't mean that people can't or shouldn't take steps to minimize the damage that each of the five steps in the linear model does to the closed system of the planet. Not to mention the damage that it does to nations, including the US.

Seriously, I think you are on to something here!!!!!!!!!!

[typomaniac]

What steps do we need to take, typo?

Seriously, I think you are on to something here!!!!!!!!!!

There are lots of areas, and people have already begun to make progress with some of them.

For example, CFCs are no longer used in making refrigeration systems, and a lot of furniture is now made from pressboard instead of wood to reduce the amount of deforestation required.

We could also legislate that big-box retailers provide their employees with decent health coverage. And that manufacturers not design their products with "planned obsolescence."

Bottom line: 100% sustainability is not possible in a linear system, but anything we can do to raise the percentage is worth doing until there's a better option.

[Classact]

There is some merit to what she says but much of corrections by big business is omitted like recycling. Also, the environmentalmental cases cause more forests to burn down than business use for products. Trees are grown as farm crops all over the south and Joe Schmucks trees are never in danger for being cut down for paper production... damn they plant them in rows like corn and harvest them with more ease to make cheap paper... paper is recycled efficiently along with iron, aluminum, nickle and other resources commonly used.

[typomaniac]

There is some merit to what she says but much of corrections by big business is omitted like recycling.I suppose that everything she says about consumer recycling also applies to business. It all helps, but it's far from a solution to the entire problem.
Also, the environmentalmental cases cause more forests to burn down than business use for products.Hold on: you're saying that random lighting strikes burn more trees per year than humans chop down? Really!? I'd have to look at some statistics on that - from a source that doesn't get lumber company funding.

Trees are grown as farm crops all over the south and Joe Schmucks trees are never in danger for being cut down for paper production... damn they plant them in rows like corn and harvest them with more ease to make cheap paper...So when they are cut down, can Joe Schmuck tree farmer really wait long enough to grow a new crop?
paper is recycled efficiently along with iron, aluminum, nickle and other resources commonly used.Efficiency is relative. And in these cases, probably nowhere near 100%.

[Dilloduck]

Frankly, I doubt that anyone has an elegant solution to the problem yet.

That doesn't mean that people can't or shouldn't take steps to minimize the damage that each of the five steps in the linear model does to the closed system of the planet. Not to mention the damage that it does to nations, including the US.

No one has even a half assed solution yet. I'm all for recycling, being realistically green and consuming as little as possible but you still wind up with consumerism lite. The linear model looks nice going around in that little circle yet there was no expalantion as to how it worked. How can you really effect a real change without a vision of what the goal is ?

[typomaniac]

No one has even a half assed solution yet. I'm all for recycling, being realistically green and consuming as little as possible but you still wind up with consumerism lite. The linear model looks nice going around in that little circle yet there was no expalantion as to how it worked. How can you really effect a real change without a vision of what the goal is ?
Simple answer: you can't.

My original point was: the less damage you can get the linear model to do, the more time you have to figure out how to affect a real change.

[Classact]

I suppose that everything she says about consumer recycling also applies to business. It all helps, but it's far from a solution to the entire problem.Hold on: you're saying that random lighting strikes burn more trees per year than humans chop down? Really!? I'd have to look at some statistics on that - from a source that doesn't get lumber company funding.
So when they are cut down, can Joe Schmuck tree farmer really wait long enough to grow a new crop?Efficiency is relative. And in these cases, probably nowhere near 100%.Millions of acres of national forests burn every year... the environmentalists will not allow human maintenance to prevent them from burning. When I was young there were very few fires at the level they are today because lumber companies thinned the forests. Georgia Pacific and other large companies have private tree farms all over the south that they use for paper and plywood and other wood products. Look around and see if you can find a federal land or private land where trees are being cut for paper or lumber... most of our lumber comes from Canada because the environmental nuts would rather see our trees burn down as intended by nature.

Edited to add:This is a link that shows how wacco's let forests burn http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/nation/20021211-1149-bush-wildfires.html

And here is the tree farm link: http://www.treefarmsystem.org/

[typomaniac]

Millions of acres of national forests burn every year... the environmentalists will not allow human maintenance to prevent them from burning. When I was young there were very few fires at the level they are today because lumber companies thinned the forests.And there's no thinning going on today? That's hard for me to believe.

Even if it's true, though, how can you be sure that the thinning that went on years ago prevented more fires, and not some other factor?
Georgia Pacific and other large companies have private tree farms all over the south that they use for paper and plywood and other wood products. Look around and see if you can find a federal land or private land where trees are being cut for paper or lumber... most of our lumber comes from Canada because the environmental nuts would rather see our trees burn down as intended by nature.I would have thought that most of our lumber comes from Candada because they had a much larger supply of it to begin with.


Edited to add:This is a link that shows how wacco's let forests burn http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/nation/20021211-1149-bush-wildfires.htmlI saw nothing in that story about environmentalist wackos. It seemed mostly to be about how the GWB admin is trying to fast-track as much lumbering as it can.


And here is the tree farm link: http://www.treefarmsystem.org/It's a nice idea, but for how many generations has this model been tested so far? I couldn't find any information like that on the site.

[Said1]

Even if it's true, though, how can you be sure that the thinning that went on years ago prevented more fires, and not some other factor?I would have thought that most of our lumber comes from Candada because they had a much larger supply of it to begin with.

Mostly softwood lumber from the west coast. There's a big battle going on aboot it right now.