For truthmatters and her studies

[jimnyc]

Lets see what kind of response this gets from her, if any at all, since she believes in studies as if they are gospel.

Report: More Democrat than Republican Operatives Involved in Voter Fraud

A report by a voting rights group regarding allegations of voter fraud, intimidation and suppression during the 2004 presidential election has found that "paid Democrat operatives were far more involved in voter intimidation and suppression activities than were their Republican counterparts during the 2004 presidential election."

The report by the American Center for Voting Rights Legislative Fund found that thousands "were disenfranchised by illegal votes cast and a coordinated effort by members of certain 'nonpartisan' organizations to rig the election system through voter registration fraud in more than a dozen states."

For example, the report noted, paid Democrat operatives were charged with slashing tires on Republican get-out-the-vote vans in Milwaukee, and an Ohio court order stopped Democrat operatives from calling voters and telling them the incorrect date for election and polling place information.

http://www.crosswalk.com/1343648/

[jimnyc]

Let's add in this little tidbit.

When Republicans win elections, liberals are quick to cry fraud. But when actual fraud is found, they are just as quick to deny it, if Democrats are the ones who benefit.

...snip

The Florida secretary of state’s office reported it had found “legally sufficient” evidence that some 60 people in Palm Beach County had committed voter fraud by voting both there and in New York state. The Florida Department of Law Enforcement has launched a formal probe. In 2004, New York’s Daily News found that 46,000 people were illegally registered to vote in both New York and Florida.

...snip

But the most interesting news came out of Seattle, where on Thursday local prosecutors indicted seven workers for Acorn, a union-backed activist group that last year registered more than 540,000 low-income and minority voters nationwide and deployed more than 4,000 get-out-the-vote workers. The Acorn defendants stand accused of submitting phony forms in what Secretary of State Sam Reed says is the “worst case of voter-registration fraud in the history” of the state.

http://polipundit.com/index.php?p=18362

[truthmatters]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACVR

Read the list of people who made up this group which is now not even in exsistance. It exsisted only a couple of years and when the DOJ scandal came along it disbanded.

It was run by people who campaigned for Bush Jim.


ACVR's officers included:

Mark F. "Thor" Hearne, founder and general counsel. Former vice president and director of election operations for the Republican National Lawyers Association.[5] Served as national election counsel to George W. Bush's 2004 campaign and Missouri counsel to his 2000 campaign. Founded ACVR with encouragement from Karl Rove and the White House.[6] Helped Missouri Senator Delbert Lee Scott draft Missouri's voter ID law,[7] which was later ruled unconstitutional.[8]

[Nukeman]

So your telling all of us here on DP that all the investigation of voter fraud against republicans is always done in a non partisan manner with no intent of malice towards the republicans they are ONLY LOOKING FOR THE TRUTH.

My God woman do you ever get tired of the same stupid line of bull shit......:slap:

[Monkeybone]

well you can't argue against Wikipedia as a source since it is the source of all knowledge.

[Nukeman]

well you can't argue against Wikipedia as a source since it is the source of all knowledge.
:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2: soooooo true....:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

[truthmatters]

Well go get the information which proves wiki is wrong here?

They are right and this entity no longer exsists.


http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=American_Center_for_Voting_Rights_ Legislative_Fund



http://www.answers.com/topic/american-center-for-voting-rights


Its just the facts guys. It was a thinly vieled arm of the Bush team.

[Said1]

well you can't argue against Wikipedia as a source since it is the source of all knowledge.

Actually, wikipedia is a pretty good source given that the authors cite their references.

[Nukeman]

Wikiepedia can be edited BY ANYONE AT ANY TIME that is what makes its information suspect. anyone with an agenda can change information to suit their interpretation.....

Do you understand this or should I use smaller words for you??????

[truthmatters]

I gave you other sources.

Please give me just one which disproves any of this?

Im sure this thread will now fall to the bottom of the page huh?

[Monkeybone]

Wikipedia strikes again!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truthmatters

[retiredman]

if you google "American Center for Voting Rights" the numbers of articles blasting its biased nature are pretty overwhelming.

[Nukeman]

if you google "American Center for Voting Rights" the numbers of articles blasting its biased nature are pretty overwhelming.Not disputing that at all what the problem is, is that TM uses wiki exclusively and it is reader based and edited. So it can not be trusted 100%

That being said she never answerd my question as to if all the voter fraud investigation ladged against republicans are without malice and non-partisan....

I'm going togo out on a limb here and say NO....

[Jon]

Wikipedia strikes again!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truthmatters

Look at the deletion log.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log/delete&page=Truthmatters

I think your entry was deleted by the time you posted here. Looks like they police it pretty regularly. ;)

[Monkeybone]

i figured as much....but it felt nice to write it :cheers2:

[jimnyc]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACVR

Read the list of people who made up this group which is now not even in exsistance. It exsisted only a couple of years and when the DOJ scandal came along it disbanded.

It was run by people who campaigned for Bush Jim.

Sorry, you are wrong. ACVR is not ACORN, dumbass! LOL I suggest you use more than your lame Wikipedia in the future when researching.


Guess which left-wing group is at the center of the worst case of voter-registration fraud in Washington state history? Yep, you guessed it: ACORN.http://michellemalkin.com/2007/07/26/acorn-falls-again-the-worst-case-of-voter-registration-fraud-in-washington-state-history/


JEFFERSON CITY - The U.S. Attorney’s Office in Kansas City today handed up four indictments against workers with the Democrat Party-backed Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) for allegedly submitting thousands of fraudulent voter registration cards in a direct assault against free and fair elections in Missouri.
The Kansas City Star reports that the four face two felony counts each: of providing false information to the Kansas City Election Board, and of filing a false voter application with the board. Each carries a 5 year/$250,000 fine.
“It is very disturbing that members of this left leaning group have been indicted for engaging in serious voter fraud designed to cause chaos and controversy at the polls in order to help Democrats try to steal next week’s elections,” said Paul Sloca, communications director for the Missouri Republican Party.
http://www.mogop.org/wp/2006/11/02/democrat-linked-acorn-members-indicted-for-voter-fraud-in-kansas-city/


St. Louis ACORN (http://www.acorn.org/) workers, who have still not been paid by the way, reveal that all of the people who were being trained at ACORN headquarters (many at the same time) were told to go out and canvas for "(Democrat) Victory 2006" and Claire McCaskill!

Federal authorities are already investigating this growing (http://www.therolladailynews.com/articles/2006/10/15/news/news06.txt) scandal involving Democrats and the McCaskill Campaign!http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2006/10/mccaskill-campaign-implicated-in-acorn_18.html


That is the public face of ACORN and it all sounds quite benign… until we take a much closer look at the role they play in helping organized labor swell the ranks of uninformed, disinterested, but obedient Democrat voters.http://www.theconservativevoice.com/article/27062.html


The new 110^th Congress convened earlier this month with something it hadn’t had in a dozen years: a Democratic-controlled House and Senate. But amid the party’s hoopla over Nancy Pelosi’s ascent to House Speaker is the reality that its Senate majority is a thin 51-49. That edge is partly the result of a close 2006 race in <st1:state><st1>:place>Missouri</st1>:place></st1:state>, where Democratic challenger Claire McCaskill defeated incumbent Republican Senator Jim Talent. By more than one account her margin of victory in some measure owed to voter fraud. And the likely culprit is an operator long familiar to the American political landscape: the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, or ACORN. Investigative reporting by the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, the Wall Street Journal and other news sources reveals that the nationwide network of Leftist nonprofit groups aggressively played fast and loose with the voter registration process in the <st1:city><st1>:place>St. Louis</st1>:place></st1:city> and <st1:city><st1>:place>Kansas City</st1>:place></st1:city> areas. And <st1:state><st1>:place>Missouri</st1>:place></st1:state> isn’t the only state where ACORN has worked its strange magic.

http://www.nlpc.org/view.asp?action=viewArticle&aid=1859

[retiredman]

Not disputing that at all what the problem is, is that TM uses wiki exclusively and it is reader based and edited. So it can not be trusted 100%

That being said she never answerd my question as to if all the voter fraud investigation ladged against republicans are without malice and non-partisan....

I'm going togo out on a limb here and say NO....

the POINT is: this thread was BEGUN as a "gotcha" thread and the group whose study is used is clearly suspect - as thousands of google links clearly indicate, so the gotcha turned around and bit the originator.

[truthmatters]

This group has proved to be a front group for Bush instead of a true fact finding entity.


Its sad to have people not recognise the truth when its just so plain.

[jimnyc]

This group has proved to be a front group for Bush instead of a true fact finding entity.


Its sad to have people not recognise the truth when its just so plain.

How can you say a group that backs Democrats is a front group for Bush? Did you not read my links? ACORN is NOT the group you posted earlier!

[jimnyc]

MY BAD, I see where the confusion lies, and it was my fault. I thought the dispute was over the report about ACORN in Seattle referenced in one of my posts...

[jimnyc]

Its sad to have people not recognise the truth when its just so plain.

Now, with my admission that I misinterpreted what you wrote, you still have not addressed the other facts I posted about fraud and you only concentrate on what you feel you can dispute. Since you haven't responded to the other discussion about fraud can I assume you acknowledge it, and acknowledge that the democrats were involved in fraud?

[AFbombloader]

Actually, wikipedia is a pretty good source given that the authors cite their references.

How can a source accessable by all, witht the ability to change the info, be a valid source. My professors will not accept it for anything. And I agree. If you want me to believe you and possibly change my point of view, find another source.

AF:salute:

[truthmatters]

I gave several.

The group was fully discredited and no longer even exsists.

There findings differed from every other study done.

They were a sham group.

[jimnyc]

I gave several.

The group was fully discredited and no longer even exsists.

There findings differed from every other study done.

They were a sham group.

And the other instances of fraud I listed? Would you like me to list many, many more instances before you admit that the dems are quite capable of fraudulent activity and the republicans are not solely to blame for crookedness in our government?

[jimnyc]

Let me add a little more...


Democrat Corruption Rocks Pennsylvania

Pennsylvania lawmakers promised much-needed political reform this year but instead the state capitol has been rocked by several scandals, including the unrelated indictments of two powerful Democrats. Last week a state Representative, Democrat Frank LaGrotta, was charged by Pennsylvania’s Attorney General (http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/press.aspx?id=3117) for putting two relatives on the state payroll as ghost employees. The disgraced legislator paid his niece and sister thousands of taxpayer dollars for work they never did.
http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/democrat-corruption-rocks-pennsylvania


- An independent counsel who investigated possible tax violations by former Housing and Urban Development Secretary Henry Cisneros charged that the Clinton administration thwarted his efforts to get to the truth.
- U.S. Rep. William Jefferson (D-La.) is under criminal investigation by the U.S. Justice Department for possible bribery in exchange for promoting business deals in Africa
- Federal prosecutors alleged in court documents that Ernest Newton, a former state Democrat Connecticut senator worked with a reputed mobster and his associate to try to stop police raids on businesses and advance their business interests
- Clarence Norman Jr., the longtime powerbroker of Brooklyn NY Democrats was found guilty of intentionally soliciting illegal campaign contributions.
- A top aide to Jim Black, the Democratic speaker of the state Legislature of North Carolina, resigned amid reports he had received payments from a company hoping for the lottery contract. The .State Board of Elections is investigating Black's campaign finances. The investigation comes after the group Democracy North Carolina said it found evidence that video-poker operators were funneling money through unsuspecting donors to Black's campaign.
- West Virginia.Logan County Clerk Glen Dale "Hound Dog" Adkins admitted to selling his vote for $500 in the 1996 Democratic Party primary, while Perry French Harvey Jr. pleaded guilty to conspiring to bribe voters in last year's Democratic contest
- Former Democrat Gov. Donald Siegelman of Alabama was charged in a "widespread racketeering conspiracy" that includes accusations he took a bribe from former hospital executive Richard Scrushy for a key state appointment.
- Frank Ballance - a former Democrat Rep. from North Carolina was sentenced to four years in federal prison for conspiring to divert taxpayer money to his law firm and family through a charitable organization he helped start. Ballance, was a state senator before being elected to Congress in 2002, also agreed to repay $61,917 and to forfeit $203,000 in a bank escrow account in the name of the John A. Hyman Memorial Foundation.
- Five Democratic activists in Wisconsin accused of slashing the tires of vans rented by Republicans on Election Day 2004 are currently on trial
- Chuck Chvala, a Former Democrat Wisconsin Senate Majority Leader was sentenced to nine months in jail for felony misconduct in office and illegally funneling campaign contributions. Chvala had reached a plea deal with prosecutors earlier this year, admitting to charges that he directed a state employee to run a political campaign and used an independent expenditure group to funnel campaign contributions to a fellow Democrat.
- Brett Pfeffer, a former legislative director to Rep. William Jefferson, D-La., pleaded guilty to aiding and abetting bribery of a public official and conspiracy.
- Raymond Reggie, a New Orleans political Democratic consultant and fund-raiser who is Senator Kennedy's brother-in-law was sentenced to a year in prison yesterday after pleading guilty to bank fraud charges.
http://www.boycottliberalism.com/Commentary/Corruption.htm


Here then is the list of former Democratic members of Congress who were convicted or pleaded guilty to major offenses between 1992 and 1999:
Nick Mavroules, Massachusetts Democrat: tax evasion, accepting illegal gratuity (1992).
Albert Bustamante, Texas Democrat: racketeering (1993).
Carroll Hubbard, Kentucky Democrat: fraud and corruption (1994).
Carl Perkins, Kentucky Democrat: fraud (1994).
Charlie Rose, North Carolina Democrat: financial-disclosure irregularities (1994).
Larry Smith, Florida Democrat: tax evasion (1994).
Walter Fauntroy, District of Columbia Democrat: financial-disclosure misdemeanor (1995).
Gerald Kleczka, Wisconsin Democrat: arrested for DWI (1995 and 1990); convicted DWI (1987).
Mel Reynolds, Illinois Democrat: sexual misconduct (1995).
Walter Tucker, California Democrat: extortion (1995).
Charles Wilson, Texas Democrat: paid $90,000 fine to Federal Election Commission (1995).
Joe Kolter, Pennsylvania Democrat: fraud and conspiracy (1996).
Dan Rostenkowski, Illinois Democrat: mail fraud (1996).
Mary Rose Oakar, Ohio Democrat: financial-disclosure irregularities (1998).
Austin J. Murphy, Pennsylvania Democrat: vote fraud (1999).http://www.urbin.net/EWW/polyticks/democrats.html

[jimnyc]

TM - if you like, I can go on for hours pointing out the corruption and fraud of those you find nothing wrong with whatsoever.

[Abbey Marie]

How can a source accessable by all, witht the ability to change the info, be a valid source. My professors will not accept it for anything. And I agree. If you want me to believe you and possibly change my point of view, find another source.

AF:salute:

Wiki isn't even accepted as a valid source in my daughter's high school classes.

[truthmatters]

I have never said anything resembling that Democrats are incapable of fraud.

They are people and people are corruptable.

I have posted evidence of voter fraud and I even posted evidence of such Harming republicans.

I post things about things I believe are destroying our country. The Current republican Leadership is harming all the people on here no matter who they vote for.

You all seem to see that as a personal attack on you. It is not.
It is an attempt to have the truth be told.

[Dilloduck]

I have never said anything resembling that Democrats are incapable of fraud.

They are people and people are corruptable.

I have posted evidence of voter fraud and I even posted evidence of such Harming republicans.

I post things about things I believe are destroying our country. The Current republican Leadership is harming all the people on here no matter who they vote for.

You all seem to see that as a personal attack on you. It is not.
It is an attempt to have the truth be told.

a poor attempt--that's the problem

[truthmatters]

That is your opinion Dillo, I think it may have something to do with which side of the street you stand on.

I post facts that people here dont much like. Does that mean they are not facts wether you think Im a shitty debator or not?

[Dilloduck]

That is your opinion Dillo, I think it may have something to do with which side of the street you stand on.

I post facts that people here dont much like. Does that mean they are not facts wether you think Im a shitty debator or not?

no--it means that half of the facts do not represent the truth.

[truthmatters]

hmmmm Some facts are not truth?

Are you OK?

[Dilloduck]

hmmmm Some facts are not truth?

Are you OK?

I'm fine------a zebra is black and white. If I say a zebra is black, it is true.
It doesn't describe the zebra very well tho.
What I find interesting is that you pursue your agenda in the same manner that Bush pursued his.

[truthmatters]

No not true .

I may see the facts differently than you but I have followed the facts.

You see all those years ago when I was telling people that the facts were not pointing to Iraq having WMDs and AQ ties we went to war and then it took years before some would even admitt they were not true.

I was truely looking at the facts in a way that proved true. Many were not.

I have a better track record than many who attack my point of view.

[Dilloduck]

No not true .

I may see the facts differently than you but I have followed the facts.

You see all those years ago when I was telling people that the facts were not pointing to Iraq having WMDs and AQ ties we went to war and then it took years before some would even admitt they were not true.

I was truely looking at the facts in a way that proved true. Many were not.

I have a better track record than many who attack my point of view.

yes ---you most definately look at "facts" differently than I do-----you only look at the ones that support what you want us all to believe and when you are caught propagating things that are NOT facts you simply pretend you weren't caught.

[truthmatters]

I really dont recall having that happen here?

can you link me to them?

[Dilloduck]

I really dont recall having that happen here?

can you link me to them?

Selective amnesia ? I can but I've wasted enough time arguing with a brick wall. Get someone who you trust to point it out to you. Proving you are nothing but a partisan hack is just not that important to me. Wanna dance?:dance:

[truthmatters]

Oh I remember people "saying" it happen I just dont remember it really happening.

You see when you get a whole bunch of people to pretend facts are not facts and they all vote to agree that is actually different than facts not being facts.

[Dilloduck]

Oh I remember people "saying" it happen I just dont remember it really happening.

You see when you get a whole bunch of people to pretend facts are not facts and they all vote to agree that is actually different than facts not being facts.

That's pretty similar to you repeating over and over ad nauseum that republicans have caused all the problems in America. Repetition doesn't make something the truth either.

[truthmatters]

Never said that either.

I said they are to blame for the things I said they are to blame for.

[Dilloduck]

Never said that either.

I said they are to blame for the things I said they are to blame for.

While at the same time ignoring all the contributions that Democrats made to the war effort.

[Abbey Marie]

That's pretty similar to you repeating over and over ad nauseum that republicans have caused all the problems in America. Repetition doesn't make something the truth either.


Never said that either.

I said they are to blame for the things I said they are to blame for.

So, TM, if that is true, why don't you then regale us with all of the problems in America not caused by Republicans? I'm sure we'd all love to hear them.

[truthmatters]

Were you any where near me while it was going down?

I was not happy with anyone who was supporting the war in the lead up.

Go ask the posters who were posting with me at the time. I think you know where to find them.

[Dilloduck]

So, TM, if that is true, why don't you then regale us with all of the problems in Amercia not caused by Republicans? I'm sure we'd all love to hear them.

It's not her style----TM's truth is that republicans are bad and she plans on proving that ad nauseum or until someone offends her. The she says " See, I told you so ". :laugh2:

[Abbey Marie]

Well, it is a verrry long list. We must give her time to type it all, Dillo. ;)

[Dilloduck]

Well, it is a verrry long list. We must give her time to type it all, Dillo. ;)

hell--she can just cut and paste it all from her anti-republican data base. :coffee:

[truthmatters]

So, TM, if that is true, why don't you then regale us with all of the problems in Amercia not caused by Republicans? I'm sure we'd all love to hear them.

The majority of problems in American are caused by the monied interests trying to improve their financial situations by either securing tax cuts or preferancial treatment under the laws. The republicans are just easier for them to buy than dems and I have said this on this site many times before.

Dems were worse than Rs at times in history.

I would LOVE to see the Republican party return to its former glory and stand against these interests like they have in the past. Ike kicked ass and was the person who coined the phrase "military industrial complex".

I love IKE and if your party was to run an IKE I would vote for him/her in a red hot second. The Dems are far from perfect they just have a harder time staying in office when they sell out because its more obvious to their constituients when they sell out so they are less likely to get reelected.


I want the country back I remember as a child where people were more interested in making our coutnry great and creating opportunity for young Americans than thinking only of their own interests and saying "Fuck everyone else".

I want the world to look up to us again instead of seeing us a cheating bullies who will torture at will to create the intell we want to hear.

Im tired and Im really hoping this country can once again be great.

[gabosaurus]

Jim, you might try posting a "study" that does not originate in a publication of the Religious Right. :)

[truthmatters]

In his credit I do think he made efforts to recognize the groups false credentials.

[jimnyc]

Jim, you might try posting a "study" that does not originate in a publication of the Religious Right. :)

Does this mean that the group that posted a study today about "false statements" made by the Bush administration is bogus?


In his credit I do think he made efforts to recognize the groups false credentials.

False credentials? Whatever. Then I must say the group who posted the "false statements" story today has "false credentials".

But I still see you are concentrating on the initial article and avoiding the tens of other corrupt Democrats you love so much posted in this thread.

[Abbey Marie]

Does this mean that the group that posted a study today about "false statements" made by the Bush administration is bogus?



False credentials? Whatever. Then I must say the group who posted the "false statements" story today has "false credentials".

But I still see you are concentrating on the initial article and avoiding the tens of other corrupt Democrats you love so much posted in this thread.

I would call this the methodical propagation of falsehoods. Very bad for the board's image, no?

[truthmatters]

Lets see what kind of response this gets from her, if any at all, since she believes in studies as if they are gospel.

Report: More Democrat than Republican Operatives Involved in Voter Fraud

A report by a voting rights group regarding allegations of voter fraud, intimidation and suppression during the 2004 presidential election has found that "paid Democrat operatives were far more involved in voter intimidation and suppression activities than were their Republican counterparts during the 2004 presidential election."

The report by the American Center for Voting Rights Legislative Fund found that thousands "were disenfranchised by illegal votes cast and a coordinated effort by members of certain 'nonpartisan' organizations to rig the election system through voter registration fraud in more than a dozen states."

For example, the report noted, paid Democrat operatives were charged with slashing tires on Republican get-out-the-vote vans in Milwaukee, and an Ohio court order stopped Democrat operatives from calling voters and telling them the incorrect date for election and polling place information.

http://www.crosswalk.com/1343648/



I thought this study was the subject of this thread?

I provided several links to the information on this group. This group has been roundly discredited as propaganda group connected to the Bush admin. They also disbanned as soon as the DOJ scandal came to light because their "studies" were being used by the corrupted DOJ stacked by Bush with unqualified cronnies to falsely prosicute people.

[jimnyc]

I thought this study was the subject of this thread?

It was about general corruption of the Democrat party. And although you responded to the first post you have a habit of ignoring what you can't refute, and in this case it was the subsequent posts about the criminals from your party that cannot be denied.

[Said1]

Never said that either.

I said they are to blame for the things I said they are to blame for.

:laugh2: Yes. TM finds the anomalies, erasing the paradigm. :lol:

[truthmatters]

It was about general corruption of the Democrat party. And although you responded to the first post you have a habit of ignoring what you can't refute, and in this case it was the subsequent posts about the criminals from your party that cannot be denied.

Im not really understanding what it is you want me to refute?

If you found a list of scumbags who commited crimes and got caught Im glad they got caught. We can all make list of scumbags who got caught right?


BTW I have made posts here about Dems who got caught myself.

[jimnyc]

Im not really understanding what it is you want me to refute?

If you found a list of scumbags who commited crimes and got caught Im glad they got caught. We can all make list of scumbags who got caught right?

My point exactly. All you do is report to us about perceived wrongdoings from the Republican side but you pretty much ignore the Dems. You don't seem to ever want to admit that both parties have their fair share of dimwits. THAT'S why I claim you are a partisan hack. And even when people show you this you come back and only claim the R's are worse and had control longer, blah, blah, blah... The point of the thread is that BOTH parties are quite capable of being up to no good.

[truthmatters]

http://debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=9367

[jimnyc]

http://debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=9367

C'mon, TM, let's be honest. Would I be lying when if I stated you have made well over 3,000 posts on this board and likely less than 5 of them were solely condemning actions of the democrats?

[truthmatters]

When was the last time you praised a democrat?

[jimnyc]

When was the last time you praised a democrat?

Just the other day when I stated I thought Clinton was a decent president. But that's not the point, we're talking about condemning right now, and many of us conservatives have plenty to condemn the current crop of "conservatives" about. Just look at the endless threads about immigration condemning various conservatives stances. Quite a few here have outright stated Bush could have done things in Iraq much better and planned better. We are quite capable of admitting the republicans aren't Gods.

[truthmatters]

I have not seen these posts. Im not saying they dont exsist but I have not seen these posts.

Imigration is the closest thing I have to come to agreeing with Bush on.

At some point you may realize many people in America think bush has made many horrible mistakes in policy. I think the main reason they have handled everything so badly is htey were not acting in Americas interests but in the interest of the monied interests. When you look at the "mistakes" this admin makes in that light it begins to become clear why they did what they did. To me there is nothing worse than a president not acting in our countries best interest. Its evil in my mind. Follow the money and their Bad decisions start making sense. If you believed that were true would you post Nicey nice things about Bush?

[jimnyc]

I have not seen these posts. Im not saying they dont exsist but I have not seen these posts.

Imigration is the closest thing I have to come to agreeing with Bush on.

At some point you may realize many people in America think bush has made many horrible mistakes in policy. I think the main reason they have handled everything so badly is htey were not acting in Americas interests but in the interest of the monied interests. When you look at the "mistakes" this admin makes in that light it begins to become clear why they did what they did. To me there is nothing worse than a president not acting in our countries best interest. Its evil in my mind. Follow the money and their Bad decisions start making sense. If you believed that were true would you post Nicey nice things about Bush?

It's not my fault you don't read the endless threads condemning republicans by conservatives here on this board. Just go to the election forum and read the thoughts many have posted here about the current candidates! And nobody is stating you are wrong if you speak out about the current administration, just that you do this and at the same time fail to see the many faults of your own party.

[gabosaurus]

Nice twisting of the facts there. If you are going to make a point, trying presenting it from a non-biased source.

[truthmatters]

I just sent Harry reid a negative email today.

I have posted things on the threads of others who brought up Democratic memebers doing wrong with comments such as Good Im hope they throw the book at him. And will get nothing but negative comments from people saying I never admitt Dems do wrong. I just dont get it?

[jimnyc]

Nice twisting of the facts there. If you are going to make a point, trying presenting it from a non-biased source.

Who are you replying to? If me, how about you prove the information wrong, and don't forget to prove the information wrong that is presented about the Democrats that have already been convicted of their crimes. Or haven't you read the whole thread and you're just throwing blind jabs without facts again?

[jimnyc]

I just sent Harry reid a negative email today.

I have posted things on the threads of others who brought up Democratic memebers doing wrong with comments such as Good Im hope they throw the book at him. And will get nothing but negative comments from people saying I never admitt Dems do wrong. I just dont get it?

When you make literally a handful of posts condemning on party and a couple thousand towards the other, I'm afraid you're going to be called on being somewhat of a hack.

[truthmatters]

No it makes me a democrat.

Have you paid much attention to the people on the right here who do much worse than me in the opposite?

[jimnyc]

No it makes me a democrat.

Have you paid much attention to the people on the right here who do much worse than me in the opposite?

Supporting only one group regardless of their shortcomings and refusing to acknowledge their many faults makes one a Democrat?

Tell me who on the conservative side that refuses to acknowledge that republicans can do plenty wrong and I'll tell you if I've called them on it or not.

[truthmatters]

I only see the the thread I go into and the ones Ive been in are barraged by people walking lock step with Bush as if he is a god.

If my posts were met with real questions (it is getting better here)and any realization that there may be some merit to the facts presented then I might have a different impression of the place. Pretty much everyone I know from other sites consider this place pretty right wing.

When you post an NIE report or a GAO report and have it met with scepticism you pretty much know people will accept nothing but what they want to hear as fact.

There are non partisan sources but so many refuse to see them as such because they dont like the facts anymore.

[Said1]

There are non partisan sources but so many refuse to see them as such because they dont like the facts anymore.

Do you post anything from a non-partisan sites?

[jimnyc]

I only see the the thread I go into and the ones Ive been in are barraged by people walking lock step with Bush as if he is a god.

If my posts were met with real questions (it is getting better here)and any realization that there may be some merit to the facts presented then I might have a different impression of the place. Pretty much everyone I know from other sites consider this place pretty right wing.

When you post an NIE report or a GAO report and have it met with scepticism you pretty much know people will accept nothing but what they want to hear as fact.

There are non partisan sources but so many refuse to see them as such because they dont like the facts anymore.

I'll tell you right now - I question everything. It doesn't mean we think everything is false, but I can only speak for myself when I say I'd rather deal in proven facts as much as possible. Even official reports leave room for questioning many times.

As for people thinking this site is "right wing" - that's ok, it does have more conservatives here than liberals. That doesn't mean anyone is prevented from joining and having their say. There was never a plan to make the site lean in any one direction but rather provide a place for the debates to happen. In fact, I'd lose if I wanted it to continue forever leaning more to one side as I WANT the debates to get better and more active.

[truthmatters]

Do you post anything from a non-partisan sites?

I guess not if you dont consider the GAO and the NIE non partisan.

[Said1]

I guess not if you dont consider the GAO and the NIE non partisan.

I have no idea what those acronyms mean. Also, I don[t read every thread you start, hence my question. However, from what I have read, I would be inclinde to think you are partial to sensationalized stories, peppered with phrases and words like 'allegedly accused, claimed, may, might or possibly the reason'.