Huckabee (&Thompson&Romney) Say All Illegals Go Home -- McCain Says 10 Million Stay

[Pale Rider]

From: Roy Beck, President, NumbersUSA
Date: Saturday 19JAN08 1:30 a.m. EST


Huckabee (&Thompson&Romney) say all illegals go home -- McCain says 10 million stay

GOOD MORNING, SOUTH CAROLINA VOTERS,

The rest of the nation is waiting to see if predictions are correct that you will vote in the Republican Primary to send a pro-amnesty message which may set the direction for the rest of the Primaries and perhaps guarantee another pro-amnesty President.

John McCain is polling in first place in South Carolina as you head to the polls today.

But McCain has taken the side of amnesty for illegal aliens in nearly two dozen votes and co-sponsorships. You can look at all McCain pro-amnesty actions on this link. (http://grades.betterimmigration.com/testgradescategory.php3?District=AZ&Category=4&Status=Career&VIPID=33)

Here is history of McCain immigration actions. (http://grades.betterimmigration.com/view_history.php3?District=AZ&VIPID=33)

McCain says he got the message last year that voters didn't like all of his giant amnesty bills. But his only change is that he promises to secure the border before he gives legal status to at least 10 million illegal aliens so they can permanently keep American jobs. He even says this on his South Carolina radio ads, noting that he would only require that the illegal aliens pay a fine and learn English.

If you are as concerned as I am about a pro-amnesty victory for McCain, you may want to print out this one-pager and make copies to hand out just outside the voting stations today. (http://www.numbersusa.com/PDFs/mccainonepager.pdf)

I have been rather shocked to read reports of South Carolina Republican voters who say they are very concerned about illegal immigration and that they plan to vote for Sen. McCain as the best candidate to take care of the problem.

That certainly is not the indication from our Presidential Grid (http://www.betterimmigration.com/candidates/2006/prez2008.html)that rates each candidate on 16 immigration categories.

What a contrast to McCain (and the equally pro-amnesty Giuliani) is Sen. Thompson.

Look at our NumbersUSA home page (http://www.numbersusa.com/index)for our description of how Thompson has the best immigration promises and plan of all the candidates polling above 5%.

Both Thompson and Romney have promised to make illegal aliens go home.

But McCain's pro-amnesty plans received their greatest exposure this week when Gov. Huckabee signed NumbersUSA's "no-amnesty pledge" in front of a busload of national news media at North Greenville University in South Carolina.


Huckabee has placed the full pledge on his blog on his campaign website (http://www.mikehuckabee.com/?FuseAction=Blogs.View&Blog_id=1206)

January 17, 2008 - 11:38 PM

by Mike Huckabee

Yesterday, I signed the following pledge:

"I pledge to oppose amnesty or any other special path to citizenship for the millions of foreign nationals unlawfully present in the United States. As President, I will fully implement enforcement measures that, over time, will lead to the attrition of our illegal immigrant population. I also pledge to make security of our borders a top priority of my administration."

Important points:

1. The 12 million illegal immigrants now here will have to go home.

2. They will not get any legal status while here that allows them to remain long-term.

3. Once in their home countries, they may apply for re-admittance to the U.S. as immigrants, visitors or temporary workers through normal channels.

4. Once in their home countries, they will not receive any special privileges on the basis of their having been in the U.S. illegally, such as being put to the front of a visa line.

5. There will be no new categories or programs through which they may re-enter the U.S.

6. There will not be an expansion of green cards in any existing categories that will speed up their movement to the front of the line.

(The Governor agreed to this pledge made to the American people with his public signing before the national media on Jan. 16, 2008 at North Greenville University, South Carolina.)

In creating this pledge, NumbersUSA believed it closed nearly all of the loopholes that our members have seen in the promises of some candidates, some Members of Congress and the President when they say they oppose amnesty.


NumbersUSA's strategy in offering these 'no-amnesty pledges.'


We offered a pledge to all candidates about six weeks ago and said that I would appear at a press conference with any candidate who signed it.

Hunter, Thompson and Romney have all earned EXCELLENT ratings on amnesty through other methods. However, last weekend, Huckabee contacted us expressing interest in sending a clear signal that he understands what the public wants when it cries out for no amnesty.

Huckabee's willingness to sign such a tightly worded and strong pledge really shows the power of grassroots pressure. Just a couple of months ago, Huckabee was still making some really awful comments about amnesty, sounding very much like McCain's current pro-amnesty plan. Yet, this week, he committed himself to arguably the most detailed and iron-clad no-amnesty pledge out there.

[Pale Rider]

Here's your mccain. The pro amnesty piece of shit. This man is a danger to America, and so is anyone who supports him.

[red states rule]

This should come as no surprise. McCain wants amnesty, in state tutition, and SS benefits for illegals

And the liberal media is trying to provide him cover


The martyrdom of John McCain

By: Jonathan Martin
Jan 18, 2008 06:24 AM EST

COLUMBIA, S.C. —The national media thinks John McCain is under siege again, and his campaign is only too happy to help reporters file their stories.

At a rally Thursday, outside McCain’s headquarters just down the street from the state capitol here, the candidate and a key local supporter, Sen. Lindsey Graham, are explaining that sorcerers of the dark political arts are at work.

“There’s a lot being said out there on phone calls, in the mail, that’s a bunch of garbage — ignore it,” Graham proclaimed. “We know the truth.”

“You know that a lot of nasty things are going on,” McCain added, “but ignore that stuff.”

The truth is, not that many nasty things are going on in 2008, certainly not compared to the bare-knuckled 2000 GOP presidential primary here, and probably not much more so than in your garden-variety campaign for elected office.

A nasty flier touching on McCain’s POW experience has surfaced and a round of anti-McCain automated phone calls has been launched by a pro-Huckabee third-party group — but those are the same calls that were placed in every other early primary state. Other than that, there’s been little in the way of dirty tricks.

McCain’s lagging rivals don’t mention his name in stump speeches, they don’t criticize him and they aren’t even airing negative ads against him.

for the complete article

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0108/7962.html

[PostmodernProphet]

at least we have ONE practical man amongst the dreamers.....

you boys realize we could have solved this problem a year ago if the far right didn't wet it's pants over the thought of LEGAL immigration, right?........

[red states rule]

at least we have ONE practical man amongst the dreamers.....

you boys realize we could have solved this problem a year ago if the far right didn't wet it's pants over the thought of LEGAL immigration, right?........

As usual, you do not have a clue as to what happened

The right has no problem with LEGAL immigration. It is the ILLEGAL immigration we have a prblem with. And RINO'S like McCain want to reward the illegals for their ilegal behaviour

[AFbombloader]

at least we have ONE practical man amongst the dreamers.....

you boys realize we could have solved this problem a year ago if the far right didn't wet it's pants over the thought of LEGAL immigration, right?........

WTF are you talking anout!?! The bill I think you are refering to had no "legal immegration" in it. It allowed for those who broke our laws coming in to this country to stay. Period.

I know of noone who has any issues with legal immigration. I think our laws need to be enforced to the letter, a secure border need to be achieved, and a better screening process needs to be installed for those who want to come here legally.

McCain wants to allow criminals to stay, that is why I will not support him.


AF:salute:

[PostmodernProphet]

As usual, you do not have a clue as to what happened

The right has no problem with LEGAL immigration. It is the ILLEGAL immigration we have a prblem with. And RINO'S like McCain want to reward the illegals for their ilegal behaviour

wrong....any effort to create a legal immigration program results in the far right running for the door shouting AMNESTY!........and don't pretend it's about illegal behavior......you have no intent to punish illegal behavior.....you plan to grant amnesty to everyone who offered a job to an illegal immigrant or didn't deport an illegal immigrant.....they violated the law just as much as the immigrant did......

[PostmodernProphet]

I know of noone who has any issues with legal immigration.

well, if you have no problem with creating an immigration system that would allow 12 million workers to enter the country legally, why make them go home to fill out the papers.....is it because you want to pump the economy through the transportation industry?......

[PostmodernProphet]

McCain wants to allow criminals to stay, that is why I will not support him.


and you think only half the criminals are criminals and are selective in your grant of amnesty....that is why I cannot agree with you......

[red states rule]

wrong....any effort to create a legal immigration program results in the far right running for the door shouting AMNESTY!........and don't pretend it's about illegal behavior......you have no intent to punish illegal behavior.....you plan to grant amnesty to everyone who offered a job to an illegal immigrant or didn't deport an illegal immigrant.....they violated the law just as much as the immigrant did......

My, you twist and turn the facts better then Bill twisted and turned his interns

[82Marine89]

Enough said...


Sen. McCain Champions Illegal Aliens & Business
Lobbyists Over American Working Families
• Nearly every time there is a choice, Sen. McCain favors business lobbyists’
desires for foreign workers vs. protecting American workers’
wages and jobs. View his voting record at:
http://grades.betterimmigration.com/compare.php3?District=AZ&Category=5&Status=Career&VIPID=33
• John McCain’s hopes of giving permanent residency to millions of illegal aliens will
saddle American taxpayers with huge costs. A 2007 Heritage Foundation study
found that a household headed by the typical high-school-drop-out illegal alien costs
taxpayers a net of about $20,000 for every year allowed to stay in this country.
• McCain has taken the pro-amnesty position in nearly two dozen
votes and co-sponsorships. View the long list at:
http://grades.betterimmigration.com/testgradescategory.php3?District=AZ&Category=4&Status=Career&VIPID=33
• For six years after the 9/11 attacks, McCain held our border security as a
hostage to his desires for amnesty. He was willing to work to secure our borders and
try to prevent illegal immigration ONLY if it was tied to providing permanent residency
for illegal aliens already here. Our borders are still sieves.
For the last 2 years, John McCain & Ted Kennedy were the
key leaders trying to ram a path to citizenship for millions of
illegal aliens through Congress.
• Sen. McCain claims it is not amnesty to give illegal aliens U.S. citizenship if they have to
pay a fine and learn English. Whatever he chooses to call it, allowing illegal aliens
to keep the very things they broke the law to obtain – U.S. residency
and an American job – is an incredibly generous reward for violating the rule of law.
• After his leadership for amnesties caused his Presidential
campaign to collapse last spring, McCain said he “got the message” from the
voters and no longer pushes rewarding illegal aliens ahead of everything else. He says he
wants to secure our borders first. But he only promises to make 2 million of the 12-20
million illegal aliens go home.
McCain has the worst Republican platform for
ending future illegal immigration
http://www.betterimmigration.com/candidates/2006/prez08_gop1.html
Prepared by www.NumbersUSA.com and www.CongressGrades.org

[Pale Rider]

wrong....any effort to create a legal immigration program results in the far right running for the door shouting AMNESTY!........and don't pretend it's about illegal behavior......you have no intent to punish illegal behavior.....you plan to grant amnesty to everyone who offered a job to an illegal immigrant or didn't deport an illegal immigrant.....they violated the law just as much as the immigrant did......

So you think it's a alright to have 20 million illegal aliens already here in this country to be able to just STAY? By what logic do you think that is a good idea?

[red states rule]

So you think it's a alright to have 20 million illegal aliens already here in this country to be able to just STAY? By what logic do you think that is a good idea?

Who said he is using logic PR?

[Pale Rider]

Who said he is using logic PR?

I don't know. Pmp just surprises the shit out of me sometimes with the things he says. Not long ago he was defending the outrageously disproportionate degree of black violent crime on white people. Now he's defending 20 million illegal aliens being in this country illegally. *shakes head*... WTF? :dunno:

Can't imagine where his heads at.

[red states rule]

I don't know. Pmp just surprises the shit out of me sometimes with the things he says. Not long ago he was defending the outrageously disproportionate degree of black violent crime on white people. Now he's defending 20 million illegal aliens being in this country illegally. *shakes head*... WTF? :dunno:

Can't imagine where his heads at.

He is probably checking for polyps

[manu1959]

So you think it's a alright to have 20 million illegal aliens already here in this country to be able to just STAY? By what logic do you think that is a good idea?

what if they got to stay but had to pay taxes and did not get citizenship or the right to vote.....

[Pale Rider]

what if they got to stay but had to pay taxes and did not get citizenship or the right to vote.....

If they get to stay under ANY circumstances, that's called amnesty. No way.

[red states rule]

If they get to stay under ANY circumstances, that's called amnesty. No way.

Which is why McCain lost so bad in NV

At least according to the exit polls

[Pale Rider]

Which is why McCain lost so bad in NV

At least according to the exit polls

McCain is getting SPANKED! I'd say it's in part because he's pro amnesty, and that Mitt has run here as strong on business reconstruction, and right now the economy is big on people's minds.

[red states rule]

McCain is getting SPANKED! I'd say it's in part because he's pro amnesty, and that Mitt has run here as strong on business reconstruction, and right now the economy is big on people's minds.

On this one PR we agree completly

Mitt may pick up some votes in SC due to his huge win over McCain

[Pale Rider]

On this one PR we agree completly

Mitt may pick up some votes in SC due to his huge win over McCain

Hey... we're still pards. Even if we do disagree, we do it in a respectful manner... :beer:

[AFbombloader]

well, if you have no problem with creating an immigration system that would allow 12 million workers to enter the country legally, why make them go home to fill out the papers.....is it because you want to pump the economy through the transportation industry?......

Did you stop reading my post when you found something you could disagree with? Keep reading and you will find my solution to the 12 million people you refer to.

and a better screening process needs to be installed for those who want to come here legally.

I think we could adapt a policy like Australia and New Zealand, where you apply and if we need someone of your talent we allow you in.

And how does any of this pump up the transportation industry? If I had any ties to that particular industry maybe itwould be a good plan, but I don't, so try again.

AF:salute:

[red states rule]

Hey... we're still pards. Even if we do disagree, we do it in a respectful manner... :beer:

Of course we are. Reasonable people can agree to disagree

If I ever have the pleasure of meeting you, the first drink is on me

[PostmodernProphet]

So you think it's a alright to have 20 million illegal aliens already here in this country to be able to just STAY? By what logic do you think that is a good idea?

it's quite simple actually.....by the logic that they are 20 million people who want to work and there are people who want to hire the 20 million people.....I say keep em here and ship out 20 million American citizens that won't work instead......

[red states rule]

it's quite simple actually.....by the logic that they are 20 million people who want to work and there are people who want to hire the 20 million people.....I say keep em here and ship out 20 million American citizens that won't work instead......

By logic there are 20 million who are here illegally. You seem to have no problem with them breaking our laws and want to reward them for doing so

[PostmodernProphet]

I don't know. Pmp just surprises the shit out of me sometimes with the things he says. Not long ago he was defending the outrageously disproportionate degree of black violent crime on white people. Now he's defending 20 million illegal aliens being in this country illegally. *shakes head*... WTF? :dunno:

Can't imagine where his heads at.

???....I suspect the surprise comes when an intelligent idea slips into your mind.....it must feel quite lonely upon arrival.......perhaps it is because you don't read very well, but let me clarify.....I did not defend 20 million aliens being in this country illegally....I said, make them legal so there are 20 million aliens in this country legally...........


I thought it best to clarify that so that some day you don't make the same mistake you just did....since I also didn't "defend an outrageously disproportionate degree of black violent crime on white people".....what I actually did was call you on a racist comment....unfortunately, since you are in denial, you missed that point and thought I was arguing with the issue......

[red states rule]

???....I suspect the surprise comes when an intelligent idea slips into your mind.....it must feel quite lonely upon arrival.......perhaps it is because you don't read very well, but let me clarify.....I did not defend 20 million aliens being in this country illegally....I said, make them legal so there are 20 million aliens in this country legally...........


I thought it best to clarify that so that some day you don't make the same mistake you just did....since I also didn't "defend an outrageously disproportionate degree of black violent crime on white people".....what I actually did was call you on a racist comment....unfortunately, since you are in denial, you missed that point and thought I was arguing with the issue......

Thanks for confirming you want to reward illegal behaviour. We tried that in the 80's and the problem has gotten worse

[PostmodernProphet]

we currently allow 65k people a year in....we have 12 million plus already working here.....are you going to allow 12 million in or not.....if not then you DO have a problem with legal immigration.....

[PostmodernProphet]

By logic there are 20 million who are here illegally. You seem to have no problem with them breaking our laws and want to reward them for doing so

don't pretend this is about "law"....you have no problem ignoring the employers who have broken the law....are you going to give THEM amnesty? or do we go back and prosecute every employer who hired an illegal alien over the last twenty years.....

[PostmodernProphet]

Thanks for confirming you want to reward illegal behaviour. We tried that in the 80's and the problem has gotten worse

our present problem isn't the result of Reagan's amnesty.....our present problem is the result of trying to limit legal immigration to under 100,000 a year....

open immigration has always been a conservative principle.....you protectionist Democrats annoy me......

[red states rule]

don't pretend this is about "law"....you have no problem ignoring the employers who have broken the law....are you going to give THEM amnesty? or do we go back and prosecute every employer who hired an illegal alien over the last twenty years.....

Yes I do support enforcing all laws

But then we get this from the liberal media when we do


USAT Report on Okla. Immigration Law: Anecdotes with Few Facts
By Tom Blumer | January 10, 2008 - 23:45 ET

USA Today's Emily Bazar wrote a long article Wednesday ("Strict immigration law rattles Okla. businesses") on the early impact of Oklahoma's recently-passed immigration reform legislation, apparently now well-known as "1804," or "House Bill 1804, the Oklahoma Taxpayer and Citizen Protection Act of 2007, arguably the nation's toughest state law targeting illegal immigrants," which became effective November 1.

Bazar's report is dominated by plenty of downbeat anecdotes and dire warnings to relay to her readers from employers and others. Here are a few:

..... workers at the sprawling Greenleaf Nursery were prepping for deadly frosts. They needed to ship plants, erect greenhouses and bunch trees together to protect them against the cold.

But in late October, about 40 employees disappeared from the 600-acre nursery about an hour's drive from Tulsa. "Some went to Texas, some went to Arkansas," nursery President Randy Davis says. "They just left."

Why did the workers, all immigrants, flee? "Those states don't have 1804," Davis says.

..... Many business owners are especially nervous about provisions of 1804 that kick in July 1, when employers with government contracts must start checking new hires against a federal database to make sure they are legally eligible to work. If the employers don't, they won't get the contracts.

"I've already had customers who came in here and told me they've fired employees because they didn't know if they were here legally," says Tim Wagner, an owner of Cocina De Mino, a Mexican restaurant in Oklahoma City. He predicts industries such as agriculture will face worker shortages.

Widespread reports of vanishing employees and schoolchildren suggest thousands of illegal immigrants have left Oklahoma for neighboring states or their native countries. Cotton gins, hotels and home builders have lost workers. Restaurant and grocery store owners complain of fewer customers.

Some businesses and lawmakers are warning that the economic effects will hit consumers hard.

..... Republican state Rep. Shane Jett, who opposed 1804, offers a more dire prediction. Without changes, the law "will be the single most destructive economic disaster since the Dust Bowl," he says.

..... At Plaza Santa Cecilia, a mall filled with Hispanic shops in Tulsa, Simon Navarro's customer base has evaporated. Navarro, owner of a money-wiring service, says 500 people would come in every day to send money to relatives in Mexico and Central America. "Now," he says, "I have 100."

for the complete article

http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/tom-blumer/2008/01/10/usat-report-okla-immigration-law-anecdotes-few-facts

[Pale Rider]

???....I suspect the surprise comes when an intelligent idea slips into your mind.....it must feel quite lonely upon arrival.......perhaps it is because you don't read very well, but let me clarify.....I did not defend 20 million aliens being in this country illegally....I said, make them legal so there are 20 million aliens in this country legally...........
Blah, blah, blah, you're a smart ass, blah, blah, blah.... Jesus... what load of crap.

But OK... we get it... you're all about legalizing twenty million illegal aliens so they can stay here forever. You also probably think they should get Social Security, the right to vote, welfare, bring the families in, TAKE OVER. Yeah... again... where the hell is your head at?



I thought it best to clarify that so that some day you don't make the same mistake you just did....since I also didn't "defend an outrageously disproportionate degree of black violent crime on white people".....what I actually did was call you on a racist comment....unfortunately, since you are in denial, you missed that point and thought I was arguing with the issue......
Sure... just because I made the point that blacks were screaming like stuck pigs about being VICTIMS, when the FACTS prove otherwise in a very COLOSAL WAY... yeah... that makes me a racist. What a fuckin' joke pmp. The way you talk is why you remind me of a liberal. You're right on topic with their agenda.

[Psychoblues]

Dig that, pmp.



our present problem isn't the result of Reagan's amnesty.....our present problem is the result of trying to limit legal immigration to under 100,000 a year....

open immigration has always been a conservative principle.....you protectionist Democrats annoy me......

I wonder if anyone else notices that fallacy in the now so-called conservative regime? Actually they do. And they're getting voted out of office and out of American politics as fast as they can say, "Kill The Immigrants".

[Pale Rider]

Dig that, pmp.

I wonder if anyone else notices that fallacy in the now so-called conservative regime? Actually they do. And they're getting voted out of office and out of American politics as fast as they can say, "Kill The Immigrants".

"Kill the immigrants".... :laugh: - - - You've got a sense of humor after all.

"Send them home" would be closer to the truth. But you knew that. You just wanted to tell a funny.

[PostmodernProphet]

But OK... we get it... you're all about legalizing twenty million illegal aliens so they can stay here forever. You also probably think they should get Social Security, the right to vote, welfare, bring the families in, TAKE OVER. Yeah... again... where the hell is your head at?

my head is at America....where people like you wanted to keep the Irish and Chinese out......wanted to keep the Polish out.....wanted to keep the Vietnamese out.....and conservatives fought for letting them in while Democrats fought to keep them out......you showing your true colors here?......liberal?.....

[red states rule]

my head is at America....where people like you wanted to keep the Irish and Chinese out......wanted to keep the Polish out.....wanted to keep the Vietnamese out.....and conservatives fought for letting them in while Democrats fought to keep them out......you showing your true colors here?......liberal?.....

Down to playing the race card? You are scraping the bottom of the barrel now

[red states rule]

Another example of the liberal media bellowing against enforcing the law


ID law packs fear factor

Hospitals and nonprofits that help the needy say a law barring state funds for illegal immigrants has kept away those eligible for aid.

By Jennifer Brown, Allison Sherry and Elizabeth Aguilera
Denver Post Staff Writers
Article Last Updated: 08/05/2007 12:32:06 AM MDT

A homeless man tried to yank out his abscessed tooth with pliers and fishing line after he was turned away from three hospitals because he wasn't an emergency patient and had no proof of U.S. citizenship.

The leader of a nonprofit agency is worried he might have to turn away subscribers to a newspaper-reading service for the blind because some of its elderly listeners could lack identification.

And some illegal immigrants are too scared to ask for food at soup kitchens or medical care at free clinics - even those funded by private or federal money - because word has spread of a Colorado crackdown on illegal immigration.

A year after state lawmakers passed what they called the toughest illegal-immigration laws in the nation, there is no proof illegal immigrants have been caught taking advantage of taxpayers. Instead, there are abundant stories of citizens eligible for services who can't prove it because they lack the required ID.

Supporters of Colorado's get- tough stance argue, though, that it's impossible to tell how many illegal immigrants are not asking for public services because of the new laws.

for the complete article

http://www.denverpost.com/arcade/ci_6541776

[Pale Rider]

my head is at America....where people like you wanted to keep the Irish and Chinese out......wanted to keep the Polish out.....wanted to keep the Vietnamese out.....and conservatives fought for letting them in while Democrats fought to keep them out......you showing your true colors here?......liberal?.....

Oh... you mean way back when there wasn't hardly anybody in this country. Yeah... we had room for everybody back then. That's a far cry from the case today. We don't NEED anymore people in this country. We can't AFFORD twenty million illegal aliens suddenly to start sucking off the American tit when they didn't pay anything in. Most of the illegal aliens that have broken our laws and snuck across the border are illiterate. How does that benefit America?

Why do you have such a lust to see this country turned into a third world shit hole?

And please show me, while you're at it, where I said I had a problem with "LEGAL" immigration.

[red states rule]

Oh... you mean way back when there wasn't hardly anybody in this country. Yeah... we had room for everybody back then. That's a far cry from the case today. We don't NEED anymore people in this country. We can't AFFORD twenty million illegal aliens suddenly to start sucking off the American tit when they didn't pay anything in. Most of the illegal aliens that have broken our laws and snuck across the border are illiterate. How does that benefit America?

Why do you have such a lust to see this country turned into a third world shit hole?

Pale, do you have $2.6 trillion on ya?

That is what amnesty will cost the taxpayers



Amnesty Will Cost U.S. Taxpayers at Least $2.6 Trillion
by Robert E. Rector
WebMemo #1490
The Senate is currently considering a massive immigration reform bill, the "Secure Borders, Economic Opportunity and Immigration Reform Act of 2007" (S. 1348). This bill would grant amnesty to nearly all illegal immigrants currently in the United States.

The fiscal consequences of this amnesty will vary depending on the time period analyzed. It is expected that many illegal immigrants who are currently working "off the books" and paying no direct taxes will begin to work "on the books" after receiving amnesty, and therefore tax payments will rise immediately. By contrast, under S. 1348, benefits to these immigrants from Social Security, Medicare, and most means-tested welfare programs (such as Food Stamps, public housing, and Temporary Assistance to Needy Families) will be delayed for many years. In consequence, then, the increase in taxes and fines paid by amnesty recipients may initially exceed slightly the increase in government benefits received. In the long run, however, the opposite will be true. In particular, the cost of retirement benefits for amnesty recipients is likely to be very large. Overall, the net cost to taxpayers of retirement benefits for amnesty recipients is likely to be at least $2.6 trillion.


for the complete article

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/wm1490.cfm

[Kathianne]

my head is at America....where people like you wanted to keep the Irish and Chinese out......wanted to keep the Polish out.....wanted to keep the Vietnamese out.....and conservatives fought for letting them in while Democrats fought to keep them out......you showing your true colors here?......liberal?.....

I understand what you are talking about can appreciate why there are feelings that a 'welcome mat' should be laid at the various doors to our country. I know that historically the anti-Asian feelings in particular are seen as underlying the original reasoning of immigration laws. I also believe that some studies have missed the huge influx of white, non-English speaking peoples from Eastern and Southern Europe coming at the same time and the role this change in immigration also brought to bear. Both brought serious Balkanization problems into cities that had not had to cope with those numbers before, (it wasn't called Balkanization then, but it serves it's purpose here).

I wouldn't say that there aren't 'know nothings' involved in the anti-illegal forces, however I do not believe that most are anti-immigrant, the way too many want to knee jerk react to it. I'm very pro-immigrant, yet want the laws followed and the borders closed. I happen to believe that if we enforce our laws, a fence probably isn't necessary. I also think that the fence argument has more to do with getting the government to do something, than nothing. I don't think that allowing overwhelming numbers of unskilled, non-English speaking people into the US is a great idea. I also know that in light of the now recognized terror threat, there could be serious problems with this long standing practice of doing just that.

There are many people from all over the world, particularly in Eastern Europe, that would love to enter legally into the US to work, perhaps even become citizens. Their quotas are too low. Many are well educated. There are also many well educated people in Mexico that would welcome coming in legally, but they can't. The Philippines and other island nations, not too mention China, (also a large source of illegals here), have people that would want to be in the US, legally.

We need a rational immigration plan, which does not grant amnesty or promised wholesale deportation. Secure the borders, enforce the laws already on the books. Millions will leave over time, hopefully to return legally. Those that don't are either well off financially or probably not here for good reasons, the first aren't a problem, the second would eventually cross with law enforcement and be deported.

[PostmodernProphet]

And please show me, while you're at it, where I said I had a problem with "LEGAL" immigration.

conveniently, right in the same post......"We don't NEED anymore people in this country."

{actually, I can't believe you were dumb enough to do that}........

[PostmodernProphet]

Down to playing the race card? You are scraping the bottom of the barrel now

Red, you simple minded poser, what race are the Irish?.....

[PostmodernProphet]

We need a rational immigration plan, which does not grant amnesty or promised wholesale deportation.

sorry, but you either let em stay or you throw them out.....there aren't any other options......unless you intend to maintain the status quo and pretend it isn't really happening....

[Kathianne]

sorry, but you either let em stay or you throw them out.....there aren't any other options......unless you intend to maintain the status quo and pretend it isn't really happening....

Wrong, you're just wrong. You are now reflecting the government and that will get the fence and more vigilantism.

[PostmodernProphet]

Wrong, you're just wrong. You are now reflecting the government and that will get the fence and more vigilantism.

how is that wrong....what is the other option besides making them go or letting them stay.....

[Kathianne]

how is that wrong....what is the other option besides making them go or letting them stay.....

Unlike what you've been doing, I wrote out at least a partial rationale. That you chose to ignore it, is not my problem.

[Dilloduck]

sorry, but you either let em stay or you throw them out.....there aren't any other options......unless you intend to maintain the status quo and pretend it isn't really happening....

You're other option is to acknowledge them for what they are--illegal. Any further action SHOULD NOT be whitewashed by claiming them to be victims of enticement or victims at all. Any future decisions regarding their presence here should be conditional upon them being legally and overtly punished for breaking American law.

[PostmodernProphet]

Unlike what you've been doing, I wrote out at least a partial rationale. That you chose to ignore it, is not my problem.

I'm sorry, but you have stated we need a rational immigration plan....what does that mean.....if you mean we need a plan that permits people to enter if they have a job available to them, I can agree with you.....logically, that covers the 12 million who are here working......why send them home first?......

[PostmodernProphet]

Any future decisions regarding their presence here should be conditional upon them being legally and overtly punished for breaking American law.

I can agree with that, so long as we also punish every person who hired them to do a job....every person who knew they were illegal but rented them an apartment, sold them groceries, taught their children, treated them at medical clinics.....after all, it's a matter of honoring the law.....

and don't go trying to whitewash it, either.....

[Dilloduck]

I can agree with that, so long as we also punish every person who hired them to do a job....every person who knew they were illegal but rented them an apartment, sold them groceries, taught their children, treated them at medical clinics.....after all, it's a matter of honoring the law.....

and don't go trying to whitewash it, either.....

Whose law ? State? Federal? City ? You provide everyone with method of determining an American citizen from an illegal alien and most would comply. What law prevents a grocery store for selling an illegal groceries and what is the perscribed penalty for breaking that law ?

[Kathianne]

I can agree with that, so long as we also punish every person who hired them to do a job....every person who knew they were illegal but rented them an apartment, sold them groceries, taught their children, treated them at medical clinics.....after all, it's a matter of honoring the law.....

and don't go trying to whitewash it, either.....

That is what I meant by enforcing our laws. Seems to be reasonable to say, 1st a warning; second stiff penalty; 3rd jail time.

[PostmodernProphet]

Whose law ? State? Federal? City ? You provide everyone with method of determining an American citizen from an illegal alien and most would comply. What law prevents a grocery store for selling an illegal groceries and what is the perscribed penalty for breaking that law ?

whitewash, and not very good whitewash, either......there is no ambiguity about the immigration law is there?.....if somebody who can't even read English is expected to understand it, every American citizen should.....

[PostmodernProphet]

That is what I meant by enforcing our laws. Seems to be reasonable to say, 1st a warning; second stiff penalty; 3rd jail time.


so, we say to the illegal alien, this is your warning....now this is your green card.....problem solved.....

[Dilloduck]

whitewash, and not very good whitewash, either......there is no ambiguity about the immigration law is there?.....if somebody who can't even read English is expected to understand it, every American citizen should.....

Show me the law that says that you cannot sell groceries to an illegal alien. Once they get through that border the "law" is about as clear as mud.

[PostmodernProphet]

Show me the law that says that you cannot sell groceries to an illegal alien. Once they get through that border the "law" is about as clear as mud.

okay.....

http://www.americanpatrol.com/REFERENCE/AidAbetUnlawfulSec8USC1324.html

"HARBORING MEANS ANY CONDUCT THAT TENDS TO SUBSTANTIALLY FACILITATE AN ALIEN TO REMAIN IN THE U.S. ILLEGALLY."

how about it, Duck.....if we check your landscaper's records, are you headed for the slammer?......

[Dilloduck]

okay.....

http://www.americanpatrol.com/REFERENCE/AidAbetUnlawfulSec8USC1324.html

"HARBORING MEANS ANY CONDUCT THAT TENDS TO SUBSTANTIALLY FACILITATE AN ALIEN TO REMAIN IN THE U.S. ILLEGALLY."

how about it, Duck.....if we check your landscaper's records, are you headed for the slammer?......

I AM the landscaper. :laugh2:

I didn't see the "grocery clause" in that law BTW.

[PostmodernProphet]

and I suppose you expect amnesty......

[Pale Rider]

I AM the landscaper. :laugh2:

Papers please... :cool: - - :laugh:

[Dilloduck]

Papers please... :cool: - - :laugh:

I left em at the hacienda---

[Dilloduck]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,92966,00.html

Here's a good example of that great immigration law in practice.

[actsnoblemartin]

im not sure if i can vote for mccain, it really wont be that much of a difference between hillary and mccain.

I cannot support any candidate who supports amnesty, and mccain already supported it.

[actsnoblemartin]

would you support huckabee?


From: Roy Beck, President, NumbersUSA
Date: Saturday 19JAN08 1:30 a.m. EST


Huckabee (&Thompson&Romney) say all illegals go home -- McCain says 10 million stay

GOOD MORNING, SOUTH CAROLINA VOTERS,

The rest of the nation is waiting to see if predictions are correct that you will vote in the Republican Primary to send a pro-amnesty message which may set the direction for the rest of the Primaries and perhaps guarantee another pro-amnesty President.

John McCain is polling in first place in South Carolina as you head to the polls today.

But McCain has taken the side of amnesty for illegal aliens in nearly two dozen votes and co-sponsorships. You can look at all McCain pro-amnesty actions on this link. (http://grades.betterimmigration.com/testgradescategory.php3?District=AZ&Category=4&Status=Career&VIPID=33)

Here is history of McCain immigration actions. (http://grades.betterimmigration.com/view_history.php3?District=AZ&VIPID=33)

McCain says he got the message last year that voters didn't like all of his giant amnesty bills. But his only change is that he promises to secure the border before he gives legal status to at least 10 million illegal aliens so they can permanently keep American jobs. He even says this on his South Carolina radio ads, noting that he would only require that the illegal aliens pay a fine and learn English.

If you are as concerned as I am about a pro-amnesty victory for McCain, you may want to print out this one-pager and make copies to hand out just outside the voting stations today. (http://www.numbersusa.com/PDFs/mccainonepager.pdf)

I have been rather shocked to read reports of South Carolina Republican voters who say they are very concerned about illegal immigration and that they plan to vote for Sen. McCain as the best candidate to take care of the problem.

That certainly is not the indication from our Presidential Grid (http://www.betterimmigration.com/candidates/2006/prez2008.html)that rates each candidate on 16 immigration categories.

What a contrast to McCain (and the equally pro-amnesty Giuliani) is Sen. Thompson.

Look at our NumbersUSA home page (http://www.numbersusa.com/index)for our description of how Thompson has the best immigration promises and plan of all the candidates polling above 5%.

Both Thompson and Romney have promised to make illegal aliens go home.

But McCain's pro-amnesty plans received their greatest exposure this week when Gov. Huckabee signed NumbersUSA's "no-amnesty pledge" in front of a busload of national news media at North Greenville University in South Carolina.


Huckabee has placed the full pledge on his blog on his campaign website (http://www.mikehuckabee.com/?FuseAction=Blogs.View&Blog_id=1206)

January 17, 2008 - 11:38 PM

by Mike Huckabee

Yesterday, I signed the following pledge:

"I pledge to oppose amnesty or any other special path to citizenship for the millions of foreign nationals unlawfully present in the United States. As President, I will fully implement enforcement measures that, over time, will lead to the attrition of our illegal immigrant population. I also pledge to make security of our borders a top priority of my administration."

Important points:

1. The 12 million illegal immigrants now here will have to go home.

2. They will not get any legal status while here that allows them to remain long-term.

3. Once in their home countries, they may apply for re-admittance to the U.S. as immigrants, visitors or temporary workers through normal channels.

4. Once in their home countries, they will not receive any special privileges on the basis of their having been in the U.S. illegally, such as being put to the front of a visa line.

5. There will be no new categories or programs through which they may re-enter the U.S.

6. There will not be an expansion of green cards in any existing categories that will speed up their movement to the front of the line.

(The Governor agreed to this pledge made to the American people with his public signing before the national media on Jan. 16, 2008 at North Greenville University, South Carolina.)

In creating this pledge, NumbersUSA believed it closed nearly all of the loopholes that our members have seen in the promises of some candidates, some Members of Congress and the President when they say they oppose amnesty.


NumbersUSA's strategy in offering these 'no-amnesty pledges.'


We offered a pledge to all candidates about six weeks ago and said that I would appear at a press conference with any candidate who signed it.

Hunter, Thompson and Romney have all earned EXCELLENT ratings on amnesty through other methods. However, last weekend, Huckabee contacted us expressing interest in sending a clear signal that he understands what the public wants when it cries out for no amnesty.

Huckabee's willingness to sign such a tightly worded and strong pledge really shows the power of grassroots pressure. Just a couple of months ago, Huckabee was still making some really awful comments about amnesty, sounding very much like McCain's current pro-amnesty plan. Yet, this week, he committed himself to arguably the most detailed and iron-clad no-amnesty pledge out there.

[Psychoblues]

Two negatives never make a positive, martin. Are you certain that you want to entertain the screeds of such a negative. Keep on the Sunny Side, my friend. I know, I ain't no shining example myself!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Pale Rider]

Two negatives never make a positive, martin. Are you certain that you want to entertain the screeds of such a negative. Keep on the Sunny Side, my friend. I know, I ain't no shining example myself!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Shit... I'm going to pos rep ya for that little admission Pb. I don't care if you lie about everything else, that my friend I believe was the truth.... :beer:

[Psychoblues]

Don't mess your drawers, pr. I don't for a moment think we're through with our conversations!!!!!!!!!!



Shit... I'm going to pos rep ya for that little admission Pb. I don't care if you lie about everything else, that my friend I believe was the truth.... :beer:

Thanks for the pos rep, my friend. I'll return the favor the moment I see anything redeeming that you have written. Right now the board refuses to let me pos rep you!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Pale Rider]

Don't mess your drawers, pr. I don't for a moment think we're through with our conversations!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for the pos rep, my friend. I'll return the favor the moment I see anything redeeming that you have written. Right now the board refuses to let me pos rep you!!!!!!!!!!!!

We ain't through by a long shot ya dumb ass mother fucker... ya think I'm going somewhere? :D

Well... maybe to bed for the night right now... but I'll be back to make sure you realize the error of your ways... indefinitely! :beer:

Have a good night my friend... I'm otta here for now. :salute: