Obama's racist bullshit church........

[Sitarro]

What a load of racist assholes. How funny that Romney is criticized for the church he belongs to, Huckabee is criticized for being an ordained minister and yet Obama is a member of this church and there isn't a peep from the "news" media. This is their site, read it for yourself, but don't try to join them if you are white because they won't let you in......... I wonder what they say to Obambam's mammy.

http://www.tucc.org/about.htm

"About Us

We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian... Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community.

The Pastor as well as the membership of Trinity United Church of Christ is committed to a 10-point Vision:

A congregation committed to ADORATION.
A congregation preaching SALVATION.
A congregation actively seeking RECONCILIATION.
A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.
A congregation committed to BIBLICAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to CULTURAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE IN DIASPORA.
A congregation committed to LIBERATION.
A congregation committed to RESTORATION.
A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY."

[Psychoblues]

You are such a sucker for the internet, zorro. Why don't you just continue to jack-off and otherwise enjoy yourself?

[Sitarro]

You are such a sucker for the internet, zorro. Why don't you just continue to jack-off and otherwise enjoy yourself?

Did you try to say something Ted? Go drink another fifth and take a swim in the Atlantic...... really, it'll be fun for you.:finger3:

[Psychoblues]

Sorry to mess you up, zorro.



Did you try to say something Ted? Go drink another fifth and take a swim in the Atlantic...... really, it'll be fun for you.:finger3:

I quess you'll have to start all over again.

[PostmodernProphet]

This is the third time I have asked this question, maybe this time I will get an answer......

where do you see hatred of other races in anything posted by this church?.......is there anything wrong with self-awareness, self-promotion, self-help?.....

[Sitarro]

This is the third time I have asked this question, maybe this time I will get an answer......

where do you see hatred of other races in anything posted by this church?.......is there anything wrong with self-awareness, self-promotion, self-help?.....

If you were to substitute white where they say black and European where they say African..... would you get it then? How quick would many call it a KKK church? If Africa is who they pledge allegiance to, they should get their African asses back to their pretend homeland..... they might be surprised at how they would be treated.

I know a number of Africans and they aren't impressed at all with this bullshit put out by American blacks, they overwhelmingly think that American blacks are lazy assholes that do nothing but whine in a country they took great steps to immigrate to. They love their adopted country and are amazed at the attitudes of the black citizens of this country who were lucky enough to be descendants of people that went through great hardships getting here and building lives for themselves.

[retiredman]

I think it would be good for sitarro to read the comments of the president of the UCC concerning Trinity UCC.

http://www.ucc.org/news/thomas-denounces-smear-1.html

And please highlight where they pledge ALLEGIANCE to Africa.

[Sitarro]

I think it would be good for sitarro to read the comments of the president of the UCC concerning Trinity UCC.

http://www.ucc.org/news/thomas-denounces-smear-1.html

And please highlight where they pledge ALLEGIANCE to Africa.

I didn't reference an e-mail, I posted the link to the actual church. I've read the crap that "Rev." Thomas wrote and it is nothing but a deflection to the general church and away from the Trinity UCC in Chicago. They don't need to pledge allegiance to Africa, they are allegiant to their supposed homeland, they admit it on their own site.

[Hagbard Celine]

They just look like every other black church (shrug) They probably wouldn't care if white people joined their congregation.

[PostmodernProphet]

If you were to substitute white where they say black and European where they say African..... would you get it then?

nope....I would just see white folks doing the same thing to black churches that they bitch about black folks doing....."turning everything into a racial issue".....

payback may be sweet, but it is still a stupid policy......

I repeat, do you see hate somewhere that I am overlooking?.....

[PostmodernProphet]

They just look like every other black church (shrug) They probably wouldn't care if white people joined their congregation.

watch the video....many of their members and staff are white.....

[retiredman]

I didn't reference an e-mail, I posted the link to the actual church. I've read the crap that "Rev." Thomas wrote and it is nothing but a deflection to the general church and away from the Trinity UCC in Chicago. They don't need to pledge allegiance to Africa, they are allegiant to their supposed homeland, they admit it on their own site.

I never said you referenced any email. And why, pray tell, would you place REV in quotation marks? Are you suggesting that the president of MY denomination is not an ordained minister? And they are not "allegiant" (whatever the fuck that means) to their supposed homeland, they are true to their cultural roots. But you really have no desire to learn or accept anything about them or the UCC - even though they would accept YOU with open arms if you were to worship there. You just want to justify your dislike of Obama and of democrats.

[Yurt]

This is the third time I have asked this question, maybe this time I will get an answer......

where do you see hatred of other races in anything posted by this church?.......is there anything wrong with self-awareness, self-promotion, self-help?.....

My answer is: (and don't forget, this guy is running for POTUS)


A congregation committed to ADORATION.
A congregation preaching SALVATION.
A congregation actively seeking RECONCILIATION.

Ok, but ask yourself, since the "church" leaves it ambiguous -- what is reconciliation?


A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.

This is beyond just a "private" faith, this is a NON-NEGOTIABLE commitment to AFRICA. Again, this is the president of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, not Africa. You do realize how large Africa is ........... and how many countries there oppose the US. This is more than just a commitment to .... a "god" if you will, this is a non-abstract commitment to another continent comprised of many countries.


A congregation committed to BIBLICAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to CULTURAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE IN DIASPORA.

What about Jewish diaspora? Hey, who exactly are "African People?" This is not a president of a country with the power we have, this is just a senator.... thats it.


A congregation committed to LIBERATION.
A congregation committed to RESTORATION.
A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY."

Liberation and Restoration? Why did you even ask the question?

[Sitarro]

I never said you referenced any email. And why, pray tell, would you place REV in quotation marks? Are you suggesting that the president of MY denomination is not an ordained minister?

No, the "reverend" did. Pray tell????? I didn't think anyone used that outside of really old movies and William Shakespeare.:laugh2::laugh2: I find the term "Reverend" a joke, you can become one with a buck and the back of a cereal box. Anybody that wants to call themselves that can...... Al Sharpton????? Jesse Jackson????? Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan???????????? In fact I want everyone to start referring to me as Reverend Sitarro....... a truly meaningless, bullshit title.



And they are not "allegiant" (whatever the fuck that means) to their supposed homeland, they are true to their cultural roots.


al·le·giant \-jənt\ adjective.... To have allegiance to something or someone.
Their homeland is America, they were born here, they are Americans. The fact that they use the obnoxious term African-American says what continent they have allegiance to. If they are African Americans, what are real Africans that become Americans?



But you really have no desire to learn or accept anything about them or the UCC - even though they would accept YOU with open arms if you were to worship there. You just want to justify your dislike of Obama and of democrats.


No I don't want to learn about your club. I was raised Catholic, the Church that Christ himself told Peter to build and I don't even want to go there. I don't want or need to be a member of a club started by men to raise tax free money, I don't need others to have a relationship with my creator. When all of the churches from all of the fabricated denominations start building a home each year for people with real need, with the billions of tax free money they bring in each year, then I might start taking them seriously. Until then, I find them all repulsive, hypocritical money making schemes that have found a way around contributing to the nation they live off of...... but you can believe whatever you want...... don't make fun of Romney or Tom Cruise though because their beliefs are just as valid as yours.

[actsnoblemartin]

I dont like obama's church, they only care about black people, racist basterds


What a load of racist assholes. How funny that Romney is criticized for the church he belongs to, Huckabee is criticized for being an ordained minister and yet Obama is a member of this church and there isn't a peep from the "news" media. This is their site, read it for yourself, but don't try to join them if you are white because they won't let you in......... I wonder what they say to Obambam's mammy.

http://www.tucc.org/about.htm

"About Us

We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian... Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community.

The Pastor as well as the membership of Trinity United Church of Christ is committed to a 10-point Vision:

A congregation committed to ADORATION.
A congregation preaching SALVATION.
A congregation actively seeking RECONCILIATION.
A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.
A congregation committed to BIBLICAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to CULTURAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE IN DIASPORA.
A congregation committed to LIBERATION.
A congregation committed to RESTORATION.
A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY."

[PostmodernProphet]

This is beyond just a "private" faith, this is a NON-NEGOTIABLE commitment to AFRICA.

/shrugs....so what....they aren't asking YOU to make a comitment to Africa.....they aren't saying they hate people who aren't from Africa.....they aren't even saying the US government should give a hand out to people from Africa.....they are stating THEIR commitment to do something.....do you think it is a bad thing for private individuals from the US to make a commitment to take action in Africa?.....


, this is the president of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, not Africa. You do realize how large Africa is ...........

so what is your point...that membership in a church that chooses to act in Africa permenantly disqualifies all it's members from ever being elected president?.....

look, if you want to be opposed to Obama because you don't like his policies, more power to you....but to be opposed to him because you are going to pretend this is racism is as stupid as some Democrat thinking is entitled to hate Bush because he "lied about WMD".......

[Yurt]

/shrugs....so what....they aren't asking YOU to make a comitment to Africa.....they aren't saying they hate people who aren't from Africa.....they aren't even saying the US government should give a hand out to people from Africa.....they are stating THEIR commitment to do something.....do you think it is a bad thing for private individuals from the US to make a commitment to take action in Africa?.....

what country should POTUS commit to?

[Sitarro]

/shrugs....so what....they aren't asking YOU to make a comitment to Africa.....they aren't saying they hate people who aren't from Africa.....they aren't even saying the US government should give a hand out to people from Africa.....they are stating THEIR commitment to do something.....do you think it is a bad thing for private individuals from the US to make a commitment to take action in Africa?.....

Like I said earlier, they can join any bullshit club they want but I certainly don't want a President that has allegiance to another country or continent. I will do everything I can to make sure that doesn't happen.

[Yurt]

/shrugs....so what....they aren't asking YOU to make a comitment to Africa.....they aren't saying they hate people who aren't from Africa.....they aren't even saying the US government should give a hand out to people from Africa.....they are stating THEIR commitment to do something.....do you think it is a bad thing for private individuals from the US to make a commitment to take action in Africa?.....



so what is your point...that membership in a church that chooses to act in Africa permenantly disqualifies all it's members from ever being elected president?.....

look, if you want to be opposed to Obama because you don't like his policies, more power to you....but to be opposed to him because you are going to pretend this is racism is as stupid as some Democrat thinking is entitled to hate Bush because he "lied about WMD".......

answered you before your edit....

your edit..... well, read my post again, i think you are missing the point.

[retiredman]

No, the "reverend" did. Pray tell????? I didn't think anyone used that outside of really old movies and William Shakespeare.:laugh2::laugh2: I find the term "Reverend" a joke, you can become one with a buck and the back of a cereal box. Anybody that wants to call themselves that can...... Al Sharpton????? Jesse Jackson????? Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan???????????? In fact I want everyone to start referring to me as Reverend Sitarro....... a truly meaningless, bullshit title.





al·le·giant \-jənt\ adjective.... To have allegiance to something or someone.
Their homeland is America, they were born here, they are Americans. The fact that they use the obnoxious term African-American says what continent they have allegiance to. If they are African Americans, what are real Africans that become Americans?





No I don't want to learn about your club. I was raised Catholic, the Church that Christ himself told Peter to build and I don't even want to go there. I don't want or need to be a member of a club started by men to raise tax free money, I don't need others to have a relationship with my creator. When all of the churches from all of the fabricated denominations start building a home each year for people with real need, with the billions of tax free money they bring in each year, then I might start taking them seriously. Until then, I find them all repulsive, hypocritical money making schemes that have found a way around contributing to the nation they live off of...... but you can believe whatever you want...... don't make fun of Romney or Tom Cruise though because their beliefs are just as valid as yours.


If you could find a post from me where I made fun of Cruise OR Romney, that woud be real nice.

I'll wait.

[PostmodernProphet]

what country should POTUS commit to?

when he takes his oath of office he will commit to the US....but this church isn't running for POTUS.....

[PostmodernProphet]

answered you before your edit....

your edit..... well, read my post again, i think you are missing the point.


not at all.....just commenting on the fact that people are making up a point which isn't really there......

in truth, the "point" is that whites are tired of being accused of racism so they want to turn the tables on a black and accuse HIM of racism.....in doing so they accomplish nothing except making themselves look as petty as they have accused the blacks of being......it's time to give it a rest......

[bullypulpit]

What a load of racist assholes. How funny that Romney is criticized for the church he belongs to, Huckabee is criticized for being an ordained minister and yet Obama is a member of this church and there isn't a peep from the "news" media. This is their site, read it for yourself, but don't try to join them if you are white because they won't let you in......... I wonder what they say to Obambam's mammy.

http://www.tucc.org/about.htm

"About Us

We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian... Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community.

The Pastor as well as the membership of Trinity United Church of Christ is committed to a 10-point Vision:

A congregation committed to ADORATION.
A congregation preaching SALVATION.
A congregation actively seeking RECONCILIATION.
A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.
A congregation committed to BIBLICAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to CULTURAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE IN DIASPORA.
A congregation committed to LIBERATION.
A congregation committed to RESTORATION.
A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY."

And your point is? What do you see in this declaration that is racist? Or is your little rant simply a projection of your own racism?

[bullypulpit]

I didn't reference an e-mail, I posted the link to the actual church. I've read the crap that "Rev." Thomas wrote and it is nothing but a deflection to the general church and away from the Trinity UCC in Chicago. They don't need to pledge allegiance to Africa, they are allegiant to their supposed homeland, they admit it on their own site.

And the post above is just another example of your own racism.

[bullypulpit]

Like I said earlier, they can join any bullshit club they want but I certainly don't want a President that has allegiance to another country or continent. I will do everything I can to make sure that doesn't happen.

Oh...Come on! Admit it! A darky in the White House as anything other than a servant or a flunky like Condi just gives sends you into fits of apoplexy.

[Sitarro]

Oh...Come on! Admit it! A darky in the White House as anything other than a servant or a flunky like Condi just gives sends you into fits of apoplexy.

Actually, what sends me in to fits of apoplexy(how full of shit you are) is having to deal with a socialist asshole in the White House, whatever color or gender. None of your candidates qualify for paper weights and shouldn't even be a consideration, your lousy party should be ashamed....... pathetic.

[actsnoblemartin]

Thats a very racist statement in a way, NO im not calling you racist, im saying... for you to inject race into this and minimize a black persons role, when clearly she is a bright, educated, woman who is black, is shameful of any democrat or liberal


Oh...Come on! Admit it! A darky in the White House as anything other than a servant or a flunky like Condi just gives sends you into fits of apoplexy.

[REDWHITEBLUE2]

Oh...Come on! Admit it! A darky in the White House as anything other than a servant or a flunky like Condi just gives sends you into fits of apoplexy.:fu: You only wish even 1 of your Liberal puke Buddy's had 1/2 the brains Condi has

[retiredman]

:fu: You only wish even 1 of your Liberal puke Buddy's had 1/2 the brains Condi has

brains? perhaps.

training, experience, gravitas to be secretary of state? perhaps not.

[Sitarro]

:fu: You only wish even 1 of your Liberal puke Buddy's had 1/2 the brains Condi has

Condi would get my vote today.

[REDWHITEBLUE2]

Condi would get my vote today. :clap:Mine too and Ill bet she would win the Republican Nomination and go on to beat either of the 2 Liberal clowns :coffee:

[bullypulpit]

Actually, what sends me in to fits of apoplexy(how full of shit you are) is having to deal with a socialist asshole in the White House, whatever color or gender. None of your candidates qualify for paper weights and shouldn't even be a consideration, your lousy party should be ashamed....... pathetic.

I bet you've got your Klan robes all cleaned, pressed, starched and ready for the cross burning if Obama is elected POTUS. :laugh2:

[Sitarro]

brains? perhaps.

training, experience, gravitas to be secretary of state? perhaps not.

As opposed to whom, those ubber experienced front runners for the Democrat nominee......... please. Condi was smarter at 15 when she graduated from the University of Denver than Bambam, croc-tears Hill or that faggot jon boy Edwards the tree whacker....... she's more intelligent than the three combined and certainly has years more foreign policy experience. In fact, I would put her accomplishments ahead of any top 20 Democrats in Congress.

[Sitarro]

I bet you've got your Klan robes all cleaned, pressed, starched and ready for the cross burning if Obama is elected POTUS. :laugh2:

Sure......if Bambam is elected....... huge if
:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

[No1tovote4]

This is the third time I have asked this question, maybe this time I will get an answer......

where do you see hatred of other races in anything posted by this church?.......is there anything wrong with self-awareness, self-promotion, self-help?.....

Let's see...

If I were a candidate for President, and you saw this on the website for my church:



We are a congregation which is Unashamedly White and Unapologetically Christian... Our roots in the White religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an Aryan people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of war, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a White worship service and ministries which address the White Community.


I just changed one or two words, from "African" to "Aryan" and from "Black" to "White"...

With that on my church website, I would be out of the race. A person who just USED to be KKK was totally discredited and out of an R race before he ever got started. If he had continued to go to a church with such a message he would have practically been executed rather than just castigated....

So, where do I find racism in that message of Obama's Church?

Well... In their message. That's where I find it.

[No1tovote4]

I bet you've got your Klan robes all cleaned, pressed, starched and ready for the cross burning if Obama is elected POTUS. :laugh2:

I think that coupled with his brother... would lead him to be the worst candidate the Ds would ever select to nominate. The US has barely been introduced to him. I don't think it would take long in a one on one race for such stuff to get out. Even as a VP candidate he would be hard to elect with such a message....

[manu1959]

Oh...Come on! Admit it! A darky in the White House as anything other than a servant or a flunky like Condi just gives sends you into fits of apoplexy.

you know you use more racial slurs than anyone on this website....

[retiredman]

As opposed to whom, those ubber experienced front runners for the Democrat nominee......... please. Condi was smarter at 15 when she graduated from the University of Denver than Bambam, croc-tears Hill or that faggot jon boy Edwards the tree whacker....... she's more intelligent than the three combined and certainly has years more foreign policy experience. In fact, I would put her accomplishments ahead of any top 20 Democrats in Congress.

as opposed to nearly every other secretary of state in the modern era. really. parse out her CV regarding foreign policy. Do you think she got a LOT of that while provost at stanford?

[REDWHITEBLUE2]

Originally Posted by bullypulpit View Post
Oh...Come on! Admit it! A darky in the White House as anything other than a servant or a flunky like Condi just gives sends you into fits of apoplexy.
you know you use more racial slurs than anyone on this website.... HEY at least he didn't call them niggers. even thou we know that's what he meant. bully is a Racist Bastard

[retiredman]

HEY at least he didn't call them niggers even thou we know that's what he meant bully is a Racist Bastard

so the use of words in rhetorical contexts is lost on you, I take it?

[Black Lance]

Well... In their message. That's where I find it.

I have to agree, when a church identifies itself as intending to service the needs of a specific race of people, there is a serious problem.

[retiredman]

I have to agree, when a church identifies itself as intending to service the needs of a specific race of people, there is a serious problem.

if they are situated smack dab in the middle of a black neighborhood? really?

and did you MISS the fact that Trinity has many white members and a good percentage of white staff?

[No1tovote4]

if they are situated smack dab in the middle of a black neighborhood? really?

and did you MISS the fact that Trinity has many white members and a good percentage of white staff?

I don't miss the message at all. And I'm looking at their website right now. I see not one white face on their Pastoral Staff list. (There is pictures). I have yet to see anything on there other than the requisite "EEO" statement that shows that what you say here is truth.

I'll bet that most of those are in the Higher Education portion rather than Church staff members, and that is because they get Federal funding and therefore have to use different criteria for hiring.

[Black Lance]

if they are situated smack dab in the middle of a black neighborhood? really?

and did you MISS the fact that Trinity has many white members and a good percentage of white staff?

My church back home is located smack dab in the middle of a white neighborhood, but guess what: my congregation doesn't define itself as existing to serve the needs of white people. Nor do many other churches that I know of see the need define themselves along racial lines.

[No1tovote4]

My church back home is located smack dab in the middle of a white neighborhood, but guess what: my congregation doesn't define itself as existing to serve the needs of white people. Nor do many other churches that I know of see the need define themselves along racial lines.

QFT. This. I have never even been to a church that defined themselves so heavily by race. Nor did I ever know of such except those who were for White Racists.

[retiredman]

My church back home is located smack dab in the middle of a white neighborhood, but guess what: my congregation doesn't define itself as existing to serve the needs of white people. Nor do many other churches that I know of see the need define themselves along racial lines.

and tell me again...were YOUR people broght over on ships against their will and sold as property and treated as such for two full centuries and then, treated as second class citizens for another full century?

rac·ism [rey-siz-uhm] –noun
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

Trinity UCC is not racist.

[Psychoblues]

Are you trying to say that accusations by whites of racism by Obama or his Christian Church exposes the soft underbelly of the racist accusers?



QFT. This. I have never even been to a church that defined themselves so heavily by race. Nor did I ever know of such except those who were for White Racists.

If so, I agree. Truly big boys and girls can take the heat.

[Sitarro]

if they are situated smack dab in the middle of a black neighborhood? really?

and did you MISS the fact that Trinity has many white members and a good percentage of white staff?

A black neighborhood? Are you saying that neighborhoods are allowed to be racist too? I thought that their were laws against that.

It's cute that they allow a few token crackers, are they the wives of the more affluent members? What amount qualifies as many and how do you know?

I went to a funeral for a friend's son last year. It was near downtown Houston where they drive 35 miles each way to attend church services numerous times each week. The church was filled to capacity. A neighbor of mine and his wife and 2 others were caucasian. I had never been in a church that was so segregated, it was quite an eye opener. All of the Catholic churches I attended growing up were very diverse, it didn't matter where we lived, most races were represented in the congregation.

White staff? Let me guess,white janitors, how diverse.

[Psychoblues]

Your racism never ceases to amaze me, zorro. You didn't mention how they treated you at that church. I've been in the same situation and the folks there treated me very well and invited me back. Your inclination to find disdain with the fact you found yourself in a segregated through no fault of their own environment is quite telling about you.

[theHawk]

Your racism never ceases to amaze me, zorro. You didn't mention how they treated you at that church. I've been in the same situation and the folks there treated me very well and invited me back. Your inclination to find disdain with the fact you found yourself in a segregated through no fault of their own environment is quite telling about you.

Funny, doesn't stop you from making racists comments!


I'll never again misunderestimate the ignorance and hypocrisy of the rednecks in South Carolina.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=11004

[Psychoblues]

"racists" remarks? And just what the fuck are you talking about? Are you offended by the "redneck" thing? If that shoe fits you then I suggest you wear it.




Funny, doesn't stop you from making racists comments!



http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=11004

Some of these dumbasses beat about everything else I have ever seen or heard about.

[Sitarro]

Your racism never ceases to amaze me, zorro. You didn't mention how they treated you at that church. I've been in the same situation and the folks there treated me very well and invited me back. Your inclination to find disdain with the fact you found yourself in a segregated through no fault of their own environment is quite telling about you.

My inclination to find disdain? Did you read my post through your empty fifth of Southern Comfort? I find it hilarious that a number of lilly white assholes are so quick to accuse me of racism and yet none of my black, hispanic, asian, islander or African friends have ever made the same accusation. :finger3:

[Psychoblues]

Look, zorro, it was through your own description of feeling so alone in a black church that inspired my comment.



My inclination to find disdain? Did you read my post through your empty fifth of Southern Comfort? I find it hilarious that a number of lilly white assholes are so quick to accuse me of racism and yet none of my black, hispanic, asian, islander or African friends have ever made the same accusation. :finger3:

Maybe you don't like the word "disdain" but you sure as hell felt uncomfortable and you expressed it well. Please suggest another word I might use to describe your feelings of inadequacy and all aloneness in the foreign environment in which you so eloquently describe?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Southern Comfort? Ain't that the drink of the queers and Janis Joplin?

[Sitarro]

Look, zorro, it was through your own description of feeling so alone in a black church that inspired my comment.

You're delusional. I was with my friend's family, they had just lost their son in an auto accident and I went to his funeral service, I didn't feel alone. I merely described the congregation, you read into it what you wanted. I am an extreme minority where I work and I am perfectly comfortable with that. You want to describe me as a racist and yet I put myself in a lot of situations a racist never would. I described an event that I attended with a family that I consider my friends (not neighbors or acquaintances)as they do me, you turned it into what worked for your warped theory.



Maybe you don't like the word "disdain" but you sure as hell felt uncomfortable and you expressed it well. Please suggest another word I might use to describe your feelings of inadequacy and all aloneness in the foreign environment in which you so eloquently describe?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Again, I never felt threatened or alone. I was there to support my friends family and honor their son who I knew well........ you totally misread my post. Oh by the way, my friends family attended my Fathers funeral as well.
I admit to being surprised at such a segregated church full of people but uncomfortable??? No! It is the same reason that in the year 2008 a church like Obambam's can even exists surprises and angers me. I see their attitude, like Al Sharpton's, perpetuating racial disharmony and dividing us all.



Southern Comfort? Ain't that the drink of the queers and Janis Joplin?


Yea, and redneck mud-track racers...... seems it fits. Myself, I can't even read the label without wanting to throw up.

[Psychoblues]

Do you now want to paint a much prettier picture of your experience or should I repost what you said in the beginning about it?



You're delusional. I was with my friend's family, they had just lost their son in an auto accident and I went to his funeral service, I didn't feel alone. I merely described the congregation, you read into it what you wanted. I am an extreme minority where I work and I am perfectly comfortable with that. You want to describe me as a racist and yet I put myself in a lot of situations a racist never would. I described an event that I attended with a family that I consider my friends (not neighbors or acquaintances)as they do me, you turned it into what worked for your warped theory.




Again, I never felt threatened or alone. I was there to support my friends family and honor their son who I knew well........ you totally misread my post. Oh by the way, my friends family attended my Fathers funeral as well.
I admit to being surprised at such a segregated church full of people but uncomfortable??? No! It is the same reason that in the year 2008 a church like Obambam's can even exists surprises and angers me. I see their attitude, like Al Sharpton's, perpetuating racial disharmony and dividing us all.





Yea, and redneck mud-track racers...... seems it fits. Myself, I can't even read the label without wanting to throw up.

I agree with you on the mud track racers. They don't make much sense to me either. The short dirt track racers, however, really kick ass and that's what I am all about, dig it, zorro?

[Sitarro]

Do you now want to paint a much prettier picture of your experience or should I repost what you said in the beginning about it?


post away.


I agree with you on the mud track racers. They don't make much sense to me either. The short dirt track racers, however, really kick ass and that's what I am all about, dig it, zorro?

No I really don't dig it, waste of fuel and effort but I guess it keeps a bunch of goofballs busy doing that instead of something more destructive....... go for it.

[Psychoblues]

post away.

Following your lead in this, zorro:

How about this little nugget:

"A black neighborhood? Are you saying that neighborhoods are allowed to be racist too? I thought that their were laws against that.

It's cute that they allow a few token crackers, are they the wives of the more affluent members? What amount qualifies as many and how do you know?

I went to a funeral for a friend's son last year. It was near downtown Houston where they drive 35 miles each way to attend church services numerous times each week. The church was filled to capacity. A neighbor of mine and his wife and 2 others were caucasian. I had never been in a church that was so segregated, it was quite an eye opener. All of the Catholic churches I attended growing up were very diverse, it didn't matter where we lived, most races were represented in the congregation.

White staff? Let me guess,white janitors, how diverse."

Or, we can go back to the beginning and retell this lie or these lies that you told:

"What a load of racist assholes. How funny that Romney is criticized for the church he belongs to, Huckabee is criticized for being an ordained minister and yet Obama is a member of this church and there isn't a peep from the "news" media. This is their site, read it for yourself, but don't try to join them if you are white because they won't let you in......... I wonder what they say to Obambam's mammy.

http://www.tucc.org/about.htm

"About Us

We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian... Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community.

The Pastor as well as the membership of Trinity United Church of Christ is committed to a 10-point Vision:

A congregation committed to ADORATION.
A congregation preaching SALVATION.
A congregation actively seeking RECONCILIATION.
A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.
A congregation committed to BIBLICAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to CULTURAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE IN DIASPORA.
A congregation committed to LIBERATION.
A congregation committed to RESTORATION.
A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY."


No I really don't dig it, waste of fuel and effort but I guess it keeps a bunch of goofballs busy doing that instead of something more destructive....... go for it."

Racing is like professional wrestling. It's only for entertainment. Racing is my excuse for no longer suffering the demands and low pay of the band stands. Are you now denying that you posted any of this bullshit that you now intimate as truth?

[Sitarro]

"

Racing is like professional wrestling. It's only for entertainment. Racing is my excuse for no longer suffering the demands and low pay of the band stands. Are you now denying that you posted any of this bullshit that you now intimate as truth?

There is real racing and then there is dirt track where any dimwit with enough cash can get behind the wheel of an ugly pile of shit and run like crazy around a short little oval....... about as interesting as watching paint dry.

No I'm not denying that I posted what you have quoted..... so what? I was pointing out the ridiculousness of the bullshit church that Obambam is so proud to claim membership of. You and others don't seem to grasp the incredible hypocrisy of their Pastor and members that include a usefull puppet running for President. I don't like the idea of a President that has allegiance to anywhere but here, the United States of America. The fact that he refers to himself as an African American tells me he feels he is African first and American secondary. There are plenty of people that are better qualified and true Americans to run for President, Obammy's candidacy is nothing more than the Democrats pandering to those that only see skin color...... Oprah?

[Psychoblues]

You just don't get it, do you, zorro? You can obfuscate all you want about my love for short dirt track stock car racing or my affinity for the spirits of low brow Busch Beer or even my love for this great country of ours that includes even you but you can't argue the point or excuse your attitude. That's your problem, cowgirl, not mine and I don't intend to make it mine. Dig it?

[PostmodernProphet]

I see their attitude, like Al Sharpton's, perpetuating racial disharmony and dividing us all.

thank God I am white...when you are white you are allowed to think differently than other white people....it must suck to be black and have to think like everyone else......

[retiredman]

A black neighborhood? Are you saying that neighborhoods are allowed to be racist too? I thought that their were laws against that.

It's cute that they allow a few token crackers, are they the wives of the more affluent members? What amount qualifies as many and how do you know?

I went to a funeral for a friend's son last year. It was near downtown Houston where they drive 35 miles each way to attend church services numerous times each week. The church was filled to capacity. A neighbor of mine and his wife and 2 others were caucasian. I had never been in a church that was so segregated, it was quite an eye opener. All of the Catholic churches I attended growing up were very diverse, it didn't matter where we lived, most races were represented in the congregation.

White staff? Let me guess,white janitors, how diverse.

no. not white janitors. and you never answered my question why you feel it is perfectly OK for you to disrespect the president of my denomination?

[bullypulpit]

you know you use more racial slurs than anyone on this website....

Even more than OCA? Wow!

[Black Lance]

and tell me again...were YOUR people broght over on ships against their will and sold as property and treated as such for two full centuries and then, treated as second class citizens for another full century?

Yes. They were enslaved by arabs during the Middle Ages, and the captives were bred out of existance by institutional rape.



rac·ism [rey-siz-uhm] –noun
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

Trinity UCC is not racist.

So, essentially, you are arguing that providing special services just for black people is not racist. Okay then.

Suppose for a moment that I start a restaraunt that only serves white people, and justify my restaraunts policy on the basis that my restaraunt exists to serve the special needs of white culture. What do you think my odds would be of winning the inevitable civil suit in court?

[Psychoblues]

Look, zero, you are only you and I seriously doubt if you'll ever be much better.


There is real racing and then there is dirt track where any dimwit with enough cash can get behind the wheel of an ugly pile of shit and run like crazy around a short little oval....... about as interesting as watching paint dry.

No I'm not denying that I posted what you have quoted..... so what? I was pointing out the ridiculousness of the bullshit church that Obambam is so proud to claim membership of. You and others don't seem to grasp the incredible hypocrisy of their Pastor and members that include a usefull puppet running for President. I don't like the idea of a President that has allegiance to anywhere but here, the United States of America. The fact that he refers to himself as an African American tells me he feels he is African first and American secondary. There are plenty of people that are better qualified and true Americans to run for President, Obammy's candidacy is nothing more than the Democrats pandering to those that only see skin color...... Oprah?

That said, kiss this::pee:

[bullypulpit]

My inclination to find disdain? Did you read my post through your empty fifth of Southern Comfort? I find it hilarious that a number of lilly white assholes are so quick to accuse me of racism and yet none of my black, hispanic, asian, islander or African friends have ever made the same accusation. :finger3:

It's amazing to think that you would even have friends, let alone those of other ethnic backgrounds, and we only have your word in either case.

The simple fact is that the right is grasping at ANY straw in order to counter the candidacy of an African-American, ignoring the fact that he is an American first. And if they have to, they won't hesitate to play the race card. Karl Rove fired the first volley in that campaign with his commentary in "<a href=http://online.wsj.com/public/article_print/SB119992615845679531.html>The Wall Street Journal</a>" attributing a number of cheap stereotypes of African-Americans to Obama, stopping short of claiming Obama loves watermelon.

[Sitarro]

It's amazing to think that you would even have friends, let alone those of other ethnic backgrounds, and we only have your word in either case.

Really..... should I give a shit what you attempt to think or believe? I don't.


The simple fact is that the right is grasping at ANY straw in order to counter the candidacy of an African-American, ignoring the fact that he is an American first. And if they have to, they won't hesitate to play the race card. Karl Rove fired the first volley in that campaign with his commentary in "<a href=http://online.wsj.com/public/article_print/SB119992615845679531.html>The Wall Street Journal</a>" attributing a number of cheap stereotypes of African-Americans to Obama, stopping short of claiming Obama loves watermelon.

Being that the man that provided the sperm to create him was from Kenya, the term African American is almost fitting except that the Mother that bore him was from Kansas and he was born in Hawaii, that would make him an American whether he wants to claim it or not. Typical of abandoned children, he identifies with the sperm donor rather than the one that actually cared for him enough to raise him. That is seen all too often with the offspring of black assholes that take no responsibility for the children they take part in creating.

What is equally typical is the liberal adoration of the perfect light skinned mulatto that will allow them to be oh so "progressive" by backing him no matter how unqualified he is for the job...... after all, it isn't about him or the welfare of the country, it's all about guilt ridden libs that, deep down inside, hate the really dark blacks..... but they can stomach the ones that are light enough to pass for exotics. Seems that defines you exactly bully..... I find that truly hilarious if not a bit pathetic. By the way, Republicans are the ones that have provided the highest jobs in the land for truly black people....... Supreme Court Judge, Secretary of Defense, Secretary of State....... remember those people? Republicans don't want them for photo ops or pets, they offer them real jobs that they are qualified for.

Refer to my avatar.

[glockmail]

What a load of racist assholes. How funny that Romney is criticized for the church he belongs to, Huckabee is criticized for being an ordained minister and yet Obama is a member of this church and there isn't a peep from the "news" media. This is their site, read it for yourself, but don't try to join them if you are white because they won't let you in......... I wonder what they say to Obambam's mammy.

http://www.tucc.org/about.htm

"About Us

We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian... Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community.

The Pastor as well as the membership of Trinity United Church of Christ is committed to a 10-point Vision:

A congregation committed to ADORATION.
A congregation preaching SALVATION.
A congregation actively seeking RECONCILIATION.
A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.
A congregation committed to BIBLICAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to CULTURAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE IN DIASPORA.
A congregation committed to LIBERATION.
A congregation committed to RESTORATION.
A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY."

Sittar, this is the whitewasjed version, recently changed to make it more politically correct. Here is the older version, still archived on their site:

TRINITY United Church of Christ

About Us

We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian... Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community.

Trinity United Church of Christ adopted the Black Value System written by the Manford Byrd Recognition Committee chaired by Vallmer Jordan in 1981. We believe in the following 12 precepts and covenantal statements. These Black Ethics must be taught and exemplified in homes, churches, nurseries and schools, wherever Blacks are gathered. They must reflect on the following concepts:

1). Commitment to God
2). Commitment to the Black Community
3). Commitment to the Black Family
4). Dedication to the Pursuit of Education
5). Dedication to the Pursuit of Excellence
6). Adherence to the Black Work Ethic
7). Commitment to Self-Discipline and Self-Respect
8). Disavowal of the Pursuit of "Middleclassness"
9). Pledge to make the fruits of all developing and acquired skills available to the Black Community
10).Pledge to Allocate Regularly, a Portion of Personal Resources for Strengthening and Supporting Black Institutions
11).Pledge allegiance to all Black leadership who espouse and embrace the Black Value System
12).Personal commitment to embracement of the Black Value System.

http://www.tucc.org/about.htm

Now that should really piss you off.

[glockmail]

Imagine if a Republican went to a church that expoused this:

2). Commitment to the White Community
3). Commitment to the White Family
6). Adherence to the White Work Ethic
9). Pledge to make the fruits of all developing and acquired skills available to the White Community
10). Pledge to Allocate Regularly, a Portion of Personal Resources for Strengthening and Supporting White Institutions
11). Pledge allegiance to all White leadership who espouse and embrace the White Value System
12). Personal commitment to embracement of the White Value System.

[Sitarro]

Sittar, this is the whitewasjed version, recently changed to make it more politically correct. Here is the older version, still archived on their site:


Now that should really piss you off.

Isn't that more like the black stained one?:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

I run into people like that every day. They will purposely walk into you and if you don't move over they will try to start something with you, all of their conversations are with others that look and smell just like them, they segregate themselves into corners in a defensive posture, they take over the television sets in break rooms and only allow BET or basketball on them, their work is well below standard and if you call them on it you're a racist, they will only truly confront you if they have a bunch of their "boys" around them. They drive the most tasteless crap you will ever see until you find yourself in a Mexican neighborhood, then it's a toss up. You'll notice those little Buick fake exhaust ports on all types of cars but mostly Chevys and Cadillacs. They wear silly looking African headwear and have big maps of Africa on their walls but they would never go there or even be able to find it on a globe.

The black men and women that are my friends are the polar opposites.

[Psychoblues]

bp touched a nerve, zero?




Really..... should I give a shit what you attempt to think or believe? I don't.



Being that the man that provided the sperm to create him was from Kenya, the term African American is almost fitting except that the Mother that bore him was from Kansas and he was born in Hawaii, that would make him an American whether he wants to claim it or not. Typical of abandoned children, he identifies with the sperm donor rather than the one that actually cared for him enough to raise him. That is seen all too often with the offspring of black assholes that take no responsibility for the children they take part in creating.

What is equally typical is the liberal adoration of the perfect light skinned mulatto that will allow them to be oh so "progressive" by backing him no matter how unqualified he is for the job...... after all, it isn't about him or the welfare of the country, it's all about guilt ridden libs that, deep down inside, hate the really dark blacks..... but they can stomach the ones that are light enough to pass for exotics. Seems that defines you exactly bully..... I find that truly hilarious if not a bit pathetic. By the way, Republicans are the ones that have provided the highest jobs in the land for truly black people....... Supreme Court Judge, Secretary of Defense, Secretary of State....... remember those people? Republicans don't want them for photo ops or pets, they offer them real jobs that they are qualified for.

Refer to my avatar.

You make a lot of excuses to explain your lonliness. Wake up, jerk, and smell something other than your own stinking ass. Dig it?

[Microcosmos]

I don't see anywhere on that site the phrase mentioned above. I challenge you to find it, even in the archives.

[nevadamedic]

I don't see anywhere on that site the phrase mentioned above. I challenge you to find it, even in the archives.

So you support Obama Bin Laden eh?

[Psychoblues]

From the absense of a reply by him I suspect your sickness is not contagious.



So you support Obama Bin Laden eh?

Have you spoken with your doctor concerning your illusions?

[Microcosmos]

So you support Obama Bin Laden eh?

Cute. Original. Witty. Um, I support Mr. Obama & Mrs. Clinton. If McCain wins, he'll have my support. I support our current President, though I admit I will sigh with relief when he's out of office. I very much like Obama's tactic of building up rather than tearing down, even when it seems to be against his best interests to act that way. And I very much doubt that his mother, or anybody for that matter, would be shunned by the congregation of his church.

[Psychoblues]

'Zactly.



Cute. Original. Witty. Um, I support Mr. Obama & Mrs. Clinton. If McCain wins, he'll have my support. I support our current President, though I admit I will sigh with relief when he's out of office. I very much like Obama's tactic of building up rather than tearing down, even when it seems to be against his best interests to act that way. And I very much doubt that his mother, or anybody for that matter, would be shunned by the congregation of his church.

Are you certain about that?

[Sitarro]

Cute. Original. Witty. Um, I support Mr. Obama & Mrs. Clinton. If McCain wins, he'll have my support. I support our current President, though I admit I will sigh with relief when he's out of office. I very much like Obama's tactic of building up rather than tearing down, even when it seems to be against his best interests to act that way. And I very much doubt that his mother, or anybody for that matter, would be shunned by the congregation of his church.

His mother is dead so they wouldn't have a chance to "shun" her.

[Microcosmos]

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/sliming_obama.html

And I quote:

Sliming Obama
January 10, 2008
Dueling chain e-mails claim he's a radical Muslim or a 'racist' Christian. Both can't be right. We find both are false.
Summary
If these two nasty e-mail messages are any indication, the 2008 presidential campaign is becoming a very dirty one.

One claims that Obama is "certainly a racist" by virtue of belonging to Chicago's Trinity United Church of Christ, which it says "will accept only black parishoners" and espouses a commitment to Africa. Actually, a white theology professor says he's been "welcomed enthusiastically" at the church, as have other non-blacks.

Another e-mail claims that Obama "is a Muslim," attended a "Wahabi" school in Indonesia, took his Senate oath on the Koran, refuses to recite the Pledge of Allegiance and is part of an Islamic plot to take over the U.S. Each of these statements is false.

Analysis
We turn first to the most recent of these Internet whispering campaigns: a widely forwarded e-mail that says Barack Obama’s church, the Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, is anti-American, will only accept black parishioners and tilts toward Africa at the expense of the United States. The e-mail claims Obama is therefore "certainly a racist" and "desires to rule over America while his loyalty is totally vested in a Black Africa."

We've had scores of queries about the accuracy of this one. It's bunk. For one thing, the church welcomes whites, according to a University of Chicago professor of divinity who says he has attended. And while its controversial pastor is a fiery advocate for blacks and liberal causes and a fierce critic of anti-black discrimination, we've seen no evidence that he preaches hatred of or discrimination against whites.

End quote.

[Psychoblues]

Obviously you miss the point, zero. The Church did not shun her before her death.



His mother is dead so they wouldn't have a chance to "shun" her.

Do you have a problem with that, zero? Or are you just blowing wet farts as you usually do?

[nevadamedic]

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/sliming_obama.html

And I quote:

Sliming Obama
January 10, 2008
Dueling chain e-mails claim he's a radical Muslim or a 'racist' Christian. Both can't be right. We find both are false.
Summary
If these two nasty e-mail messages are any indication, the 2008 presidential campaign is becoming a very dirty one.

One claims that Obama is "certainly a racist" by virtue of belonging to Chicago's Trinity United Church of Christ, which it says "will accept only black parishoners" and espouses a commitment to Africa. Actually, a white theology professor says he's been "welcomed enthusiastically" at the church, as have other non-blacks.

Another e-mail claims that Obama "is a Muslim," attended a "Wahabi" school in Indonesia, took his Senate oath on the Koran, refuses to recite the Pledge of Allegiance and is part of an Islamic plot to take over the U.S. Each of these statements is false.

Analysis
We turn first to the most recent of these Internet whispering campaigns: a widely forwarded e-mail that says Barack Obama’s church, the Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, is anti-American, will only accept black parishioners and tilts toward Africa at the expense of the United States. The e-mail claims Obama is therefore "certainly a racist" and "desires to rule over America while his loyalty is totally vested in a Black Africa."

We've had scores of queries about the accuracy of this one. It's bunk. For one thing, the church welcomes whites, according to a University of Chicago professor of divinity who says he has attended. And while its controversial pastor is a fiery advocate for blacks and liberal causes and a fierce critic of anti-black discrimination, we've seen no evidence that he preaches hatred of or discrimination against whites.

Actually when he lived with his father he was a practicing Muslim and has several family members who are Muslim. Face facts he was a Muslim and is a Muslim sympathizer and will probably give Osama Bin Laden(His Mentor) the key to New York City for his hard work and dedication in causing 9/11.

[Microcosmos]

And so I quote again:

Readers have also asked us about an oft-forwarded e-mail falsely claiming that Obama is a Muslim and suggesting that he is part of an Islamic plot to take over the U.S. "from the inside out" with "one of their own." This screed reads like the outline of a bad remake of the 1962 movie The Manchurian Candidate, in which Frank Sinatra unravels a Communist plot to make "one of their own" the president.

There is little excuse for those who continue to circulate this one. The most audacious falsehood it contains (of several) is a claim near the top: "We checked this out on 'snopes.com'. It is factual. Check for yourself." Anyone who actually does that would quickly find that Snopes.com, the respected debunker of urban myths, judges the message to be "false." And yet we continue to receive examples sent to our readers by others who either don't take the time to check, or who don't care that they are repeating false and damaging statements.


And the quote ends.

[Psychoblues]

I'll bet you shit your pants every time the Honor Guard salutes our fallen veterans?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?




Actually when he lived with his father he was a practicing Muslim and has several family members who are Muslim. Face facts he was a Muslim and is a Muslim sympathizer and will probably give Osama Bin Laden(His Mentor) the key to New York City for his hard work and dedication in causing 9/11.

Have you considered entering the lying contests held every year in your hometown? You haven't? Why am I not surprised? You and I both know you would lose big time!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[nevadamedic]

I'll bet you shit your pants every time the Honor Guard salutes our fallen veterans?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?





Have you considered entering the lying contests held every year in your hometown? You haven't? Why am I not surprised? You and I both know you would lose big time!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You talk about me lying? What about you Mr. I have been in every major war in history, im the grand pubah od the Masonic Temple, im a world famous blues player yadda yadda yadda. Go have another drink.


And so I quote again:

Readers have also asked us about an oft-forwarded e-mail falsely claiming that Obama is a Muslim and suggesting that he is part of an Islamic plot to take over the U.S. "from the inside out" with "one of their own." This screed reads like the outline of a bad remake of the 1962 movie The Manchurian Candidate, in which Frank Sinatra unravels a Communist plot to make "one of their own" the president.

There is little excuse for those who continue to circulate this one. The most audacious falsehood it contains (of several) is a claim near the top: "We checked this out on 'snopes.com'. It is factual. Check for yourself." Anyone who actually does that would quickly find that Snopes.com, the respected debunker of urban myths, judges the message to be "false." And yet we continue to receive examples sent to our readers by others who either don't take the time to check, or who don't care that they are repeating false and damaging statements.


And the quote ends.

Obama Bin Laden has some of the best spin doctors around. He realizes that the more people that find out about his past the more up shit creek he will be.

[Psychoblues]

And you think this gives you credibility? When have I said any of that as you imply?




You talk about me lying? What about you Mr. I have been in every major war in history, im the grand pubah od the Masonic Temple, im a world famous blues player yadda yadda yadda. Go have another drink.



Obama Bin Laden has some of the best spin doctors around. He realizes that the more people that find out about his past the more up shit creek he will be.

Admittedly, I probably do far more than you have the energy or the interest but that's another topic, reich?

[red states rule]

Cute. Original. Witty. Um, I support Mr. Obama & Mrs. Clinton. If McCain wins, he'll have my support. I support our current President, though I admit I will sigh with relief when he's out of office. I very much like Obama's tactic of building up rather than tearing down, even when it seems to be against his best interests to act that way. And I very much doubt that his mother, or anybody for that matter, would be shunned by the congregation of his church.

Obama was rated the moost liberal Senator last year. He will tax us into oblivion, and add to the pork via more social spending

That is why I do not support him, not for his Religion

[Psychoblues]

Obama promotes tax cuts for the poor and middle class. Just where do you get your lies and more importantly why do you repeat them?

[Sitarro]

Obama promotes tax cuts for the poor and middle class. Just where do you get your lies and more importantly why do you repeat them?

Tax cuts for the poor??????? I know you don't understand how it works and obviously that semi white boy Obammy doesn't get it either, one has to actually pay taxes to get a cut in taxes? It's not brain surgery. It does make some cute headlines for the ignorant, illiterate masses.:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

[Psychoblues]

Wow, I didn't think you could get less than zero but there you go!!!!!!! You express your racism and otherwise misunderstanding eloquently.




Tax cuts for the poor??????? I know you don't understand how it works and obviously that semi white boy Obammy doesn't get it either, one has to actually pay taxes to get a cut in taxes? It's not brain surgery. It does make some cute headlines for the ignorant, illiterate masses.:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

I hope you're having a good time, less than zero, I am certainly ahead of you in these arguments.

[Yurt]

Obama promotes tax cuts for the poor and middle class. Just where do you get your lies and more importantly why do you repeat them?

of course, he parrots the dem party joke - line.

the masses love this because they do not understand what is really going on, like you. tax cuts for the "poor" and "middle" class? Are you sane? So because someone makes 4 million vs 100,000 they should be taxed MORE?

why is that fair jack daniels?

and why don't you support republican tax cuts, but somehow support obama sir sociashit?

[Psychoblues]

Our system allows many to achieve more thus their responsibilty to the rest of us increases. Do you not agree or have some particular problem with that economic and societal observation?



of course, he parrots the dem party joke - line.

the masses love this because they do not understand what is really going on, like you. tax cuts for the "poor" and "middle" class? Are you sane? So because someone makes 4 million vs 100,000 they should be taxed MORE?

why is that fair jack daniels?

and why don't you support republican tax cuts, but somehow support obama sir sociashit?

Who said I don't support tax cuts by whomever offers them? You are so full of shit that even I can hardly wait for your ridiculous response. Put up or shut up, jerk. And don't confuse me with JD, OK?

[red states rule]

Our system allows many to achieve more thus their responsibilty to the rest of us increases. Do you not agree or have some particular problem with that economic and societal observation?




Who said I don't support tax cuts by whomever offers them? You are so full of shit that even I can hardly wait for your ridiculous response. Put up or shut up, jerk. And don't confuse me with JD, OK?

When you achieve more - libe reward you by taking more of your money and at the same time tell you you really do not need any tax cut

[Psychoblues]

You are so drunk on yourself that you cannot read or write a simple statement.



When you achieve more - libe reward you by taking more of your money and at the same time tell you you really do not need any tax cut

Get back with me in a more coherent manner.

[red states rule]

You are so drunk on yourself that you cannot read or write a simple statement.




Get back with me in a more coherent manner.

What is so hard to understand? The harder you work, and the more money you make - the more in taxes Dems want from you

Dems punish achievement. It is a fact

[Psychoblues]

This is the quote as posted by you:

"When you achieve more - libe reward you by taking more of your money and at the same time tell you you really do not need any tax cut"

Are you truly that ignorant?

[red states rule]

This is the quote as posted by you:

"When you achieve more - libe reward you by taking more of your money and at the same time tell you you really do not need any tax cut"

Are you truly that ignorant?


It is true. When you achivev more you make more money. Libs reward you by taking more of your moeny in taxes. At they same time, while they are taking more of your moeny in taxes, libs tell you you do not need a tax cut

It is standard operating procedure for libs

They punish achievement

[REDWHITEBLUE2]

It is true. When you achivev more you make more money. Libs reward you by taking more of your moeny in taxes. At they same time, while they are taking more of your moeny in taxes, libs tell you you do not need a tax cut

It is standard operating procedure for libs

They punish achievementYour just wasting your time trying to explain anything to a brain dead Liberal. Media Matters and The Kos have brain washed them into believing up is down regarding taxes

[red states rule]

Your just wasting your time trying to explain anything to a brain dead Liberal. Media Matters and The Kos have brain washed them into believing up is down regarding taxes

Libs have yet to explain why it is fair that a very small majority of workers pay a majority of the taxes

The top 25% pay 85% of Federal income taxes

And the Dems want more from them

[Psychoblues]

So, this explains the ridiculous rascist Churh of Obama? You simpletons have a lot to consider with very little to operate.

[actsnoblemartin]

I consider a church that says, only my race is important to be racist.

It is my humble opinion that the pastor of barracks church is racist

[Psychoblues]

Reich wing myth. Post your beliefs and why you believe them. Otherwise you're just kidding, joking or masturbating on your keyboard.

[actsnoblemartin]

I cant remember, where it was but i saw or heard something, about obama's pastor, only caring about blacks.

You know me psycho, I am the first to admit, when im an ignorant son of a bitch, and i dont even mind. If I am so insecure and arrogant, that i cant be wrong, or corrected, or learn from people

then im wasting your time, and everyone elses

But for the record, ill do my masterbating in private thank you :laugh2:


Reich wing myth. Post your beliefs and why you believe them. Otherwise you're just kidding, joking or masturbating on your keyboard.

[actsnoblemartin]

actually im jewish, not german

Im just teasing


Reich wing myth. Post your beliefs and why you believe them. Otherwise you're just kidding, joking or masturbating on your keyboard.

[Psychoblues]

I took your quote as factual, martin. I didn't know you were just kidding.



I cant remember, where it was but i saw or heard something, about obama's pastor, only caring about blacks.

You know me psycho, I am the first to admit, when im an ignorant son of a bitch, and i dont even mind. If I am so insecure and arrogant, that i cant be wrong, or corrected, or learn from people

then im wasting your time, and everyone elses

But for the record, ill do my masterbating in private thank you :laugh2:

You are still a hero of mine. I know a genuine American when I see one!!!!!!!!

[actsnoblemartin]

Well, you are a hero of mine too sir

:salute:


I took your quote as factual, martin. I didn't know you were just kidding.




You are still a hero of mine. I know a genuine American when I see one!!!!!!!!

[actsnoblemartin]

so i hear some people alluding to the income tax, which taxes how much money you make.

if you dont like it, what tax would you like?

if you do like income tax, would u reform any part of it, or keep our current system

[Psychoblues]

I adhere to the old system that if you make more you thusly require more and should subsequently be expected to pay more. Cheating your employees out of their fair share has a price to pay if not to them then to the government that you expect to protect you from them. Dig it?

[actsnoblemartin]

What do you think would happen if taxes were raised 10% accross the board, and 10% cut in government spending?

what do you also think taxes rates for different tax payers should be.

im quite curious to know what you think


I adhere to the old system that if you make more you thusly require more and should subsequently be expected to pay more. Cheating your employees out of their fair share has a price to pay if not to them then to the government that you expect to protect you from them. Dig it?

[Psychoblues]

If income increases 10% across the board you make sense. It doesn't so you sound rather out of sync. Would you care to further explain or demonstrate your analogy?



What do you think would happen if taxes were raised 10% accross the board, and 10% cut in government spending?

what do you also think taxes rates for different tax payers should be.

im quite curious to know what you think

[actsnoblemartin]

My stupid lil idea :laugh2:

The government is in a time of war, normally you dont do tax cuts, or in other words, were in a defecit, the government needs more revenue.

Thats youre 10% increase

then cut spending 10%

its like an accumalitive effect of 20%

:cheers2: or maybe in my mind lol


If income increases 10% across the board you make sense. It doesn't so you sound rather out of sync. Would you care to further explain or demonstrate your analogy?

[Psychoblues]

Don't tell me, martin.



My stupid lil idea :laugh2:

The government is in a time of war, normally you dont do tax cuts, or in other words, were in a defecit, the government needs more revenue.

Thats youre 10% increase

then cut spending 10%

its like an accumalitive effect of 20%

:cheers2: or maybe in my mind lol

You failed economics and you never took much mathematics beyond 5th grade?

[actsnoblemartin]

oh, ouch :laugh2:

i am at about 7th or 9th grade math lol

only took economics once, for a short time

so yeah, im a novice on math and economics



Don't tell me, martin.




You failed economics and you never took much mathematics beyond 5th grade?

[Psychoblues]

Get a high school freshman level of the subjects and throw in a semester of political science and American history and you just might start getting it, martin.



oh, ouch :laugh2:

i am at about 7th or 9th grade math lol

only took economics once, for a short time

so yeah, im a novice on math and economics

You never know?!?!?!?!!?!!? What you learn can help you or hurt you. Dig it?

[actsnoblemartin]

yeah i agree, its always good to learn, and re learn, and then learn again

:cheers2:


Get a high school freshman level of the subjects and throw in a semester of political science and American history and you just might start getting it, martin.




You never know?!?!?!?!!?!!? What you learn can help you or hurt you. Dig it?

[Psychoblues]

Once has been good for me. What's all that learning and re-learning about?



yeah i agree, its always good to learn, and re learn, and then learn again

:cheers2:

But, when it comes to national politics and the gazillions spent to promote particular hidden ideologies I understand your confusion.

[red states rule]

I adhere to the old system that if you make more you thusly require more and should subsequently be expected to pay more. Cheating your employees out of their fair share has a price to pay if not to them then to the government that you expect to protect you from them. Dig it?

The fact is, the top 25% of earners pay 85% of Federal income taxes - how much more do you want from them?

Meanwhile, the bottom 50% of earners pay only 4% of Federal Income taxes - why should they pay so little?

[retiredman]

The fact is, the top 25% of earners pay 85% of Federal income taxes - how much more do you want from them?

Meanwhile, the bottom 50% of earners pay only 4% of Federal Income taxes - why should they pay so little?

because they make so little

[red states rule]

because they make so little

So libs think it is fair for the top 50% to pay 96% of Federal income taxes - and then tell them they need to pay more?

[retiredman]

So libs think it is fair for the top 50% to pay 96% of Federal income taxes - and then tell them they need to pay more?

your question was why the lowest bracket pays so little. I answered you.

[red states rule]

your question was why the lowest bracket pays so little. I answered you.

So do you want to tell the small minority of taxpayers who are paying the huge majority of taxes they need to fork over more of their money to the government?

[retiredman]

So do you want to tell the small minority of taxpayers who are paying the huge majority of taxes they need to fork over more of their money to the government?


I do. I happen to know from personal experience, that very wealthy Americans can pay a marginal increase in income taxes and not have it diminish their lifestyle one iota. I grew up in a very wealthy family back when the top marginal tax rate was 90%...and we still had all the toys - all the bells and whistles - all the perks, and my father felt it was his civic duty - in this country that had given him so much opportunity and in which he had had such enormous success - to help keep itrunning effectively and to make sure that that government helped those who were less fortunate.

You, on the other hand, would increase the tax burden on those who can barely make ends meet and pass the savings on to the wealthy.

Two different approaches.

[red states rule]

I do. I happen to know from personal experience, that very wealthy Americans can pay a marginal increase in income taxes and not have it diminish their lifestyle one iota. I grew up in a very wealthy family back when the top marginal tax rate was 90%...and we still had all the toys - all the bells and whistles - all the perks, and my father felt it was his civic duty - in this country that had given him so much opportunity and in which he had had such enormous success - to help keep itrunning effectively and to make sure that that government helped those who were less fortunate.

You, on the other hand, would increase the tax burden on those who can barely make ends meet and pass the savings on to the wealthy.

Two different approaches.

and I thought libs were for fairness - but that does not apply to their policies.

Here is the numbers on who pays taxes

MM, when will enough be enough for you guys? And who died and made you the decider on how much in taxes people can pay?

I always here libs whine how the government can't afford a tax cut - but they never ask us if we can afford a tax increase


Top 1% Pay More Income Tax Than Bottom 90%
The Tax Foundation has published Summary of Latest Federal Individual Income Tax Data:

New data released by the IRS today offers interesting insights into the distributional spread of the federal income tax burden, new analysis by the Tax Foundation shows. The new data shows that the top-earning 25% of taxpayers (AGI over $62,068) earned 67.5% of the nation's income, but they paid more than four out of every five dollars collected by the federal income tax (86%). The top 1% of taxpayers (AGI over $364,657) earned approximately 21.2% of the nation's income (as defined by AGI), yet paid 39.4% of all federal income taxes. That means the top 1% of tax returns paid about the same amount of federal individual income taxes as the bottom 95% of tax returns.

http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2007/10/top-1-pay-more-.html

[retiredman]

and I thought libs were for fairness - but that does not apply to their policies.

MM, when will enough be enough for you guys? And who died and made you the decider on how much in taxes people can pay?

I always here libs whine how the government can't afford a tax cut - but they never ask us if we can afford a tax increase

1. There is a difference between the word "fair" and the word "equitable"
2. The political process has always decided how much in taxes people will pay.
3. Democrats would not give YOU a tax increase, RSR.... YOU would get a tax cut.

[red states rule]

1. There is a difference between the word "fair" and the word "equitable"
2. The political process has always decided how much in taxes people will pay.
3. Democrats would not give YOU a tax increase, RSR.... YOU would get a tax cut.

Wrong. Dems are on record of wanting to repeal ALL the Bush tax cuts

I remember another Clinton promising a tax cut to get elected- he lied

So again, Dems are telling the small minority of tax payers they need to pay more. What Dems do not understand, tax increases will slow economic growth, will reduce investments, and slow the economy

[retiredman]

So again, Dems are telling the small minority of tax payers they need to pay more. What Dems do not understand, tax increases will slow economic growth, will reduce investments, and slow the economy

that is the standard line from the republican party... it is not, however, a fact. taxation and the economy have a much more complex relationship than that.

And like I said.... I know for a fact that the very wealthy can easily afford a margninal increase.... and that many of them are more than willing to do so out of a sense of gratitude to this nation for giving them the opportunity to amass great wealth.

[red states rule]

that is the standard line from the republican party... it is not, however, a fact. taxation and the economy have a much more complex relationship than that.

And like I said.... I know for a fact that the very wealthy can easily afford a margninal increase.... and that many of them are more than willing to do so out of a sense of gratitude to this nation for giving them the opportunity to amass great wealth.

So how do you explain the huge increases in revenues to the government AFTER tax cuts?

Yes, libs say they want people to amass wealth - so they come in and take more then half of it in taxes

[retiredman]

So how do you explain the huge increases in revenues to the government AFTER tax cuts?



post hoc ergo propter hoc

[red states rule]

post hoc ergo propter hoc

Another tax and spend liberal tried to duck those questions as well

Here are the facts MM on how tax cuts increase revenues

Many critics of reducing taxes claim that the Reagan tax cuts drained the U.S. Treasury. The reality is that federal revenues increased significantly between 1980 and 1990:

Total federal revenues doubled from just over $517 billion in 1980 to more than $1 trillion in 1990. In constant inflation-adjusted dollars, this was a 28 percent increase in revenue.3

As a percentage of the gross domestic product (GDP), federal revenues declined only slightly from 18.9 percent in 1980 to 18 percent in 1990.4

Revenues from individual income taxes climbed from just over $244 billion in 1980 to nearly $467 billion in 1990.5 In inflation-adjusted dollars, this amounts to a 25 percent increase.
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Taxes/bg2001.cfm

On the Bush tax cuts increaseing revenues to the government:

Meanwhile, tax revenues continue to roll into the Treasury and state coffers. Federal receipts rose by 14.6% in fiscal 2005, another 11.8% in 2006, and kept rising by 9% in this year's first two months despite slower GDP growth. The budget deficit, in turn, has fallen by $165 billion in two years, and including state surpluses is now down to about 1% of GDP, which as an economic matter is negligible. Tax revenues as a share of the economy are also back above 18.5%, which is their modern historical norm.
http://www.opinionjournal.com/weeken.../?id=110009489

On the increase in revenue from the capital gains tax cut:

Capital Gains Tax Cut Generated More Revenue to Federal Government

WASHINGTON — Despite claims by opponents of capital gains tax cuts, the 2003 reduction on capital gains fully paid for itself and more. A new analysis released today by the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office (pdf ) (CBO) shows capital gains increased 51.1 percent from calendar year 2002 through 2004, far surpassing the forecast by an astonishing $45 billion over three years. This should come as no surprise since history has repeatedly demonstrated a capital gains tax cut is one of the few tax cuts which produce more tax revenue following a rate cut.

http://www.atr.org/content/pdf/2006/...a-capgains.pdf

[retiredman]

you asked a question:


So how do you explain the huge increases in revenues to the government AFTER tax cuts?

I gave a perfectly reasonable answer:


post hoc ergo propter hoc

no dodging whatseover.

[retiredman]

Another tax and spend liberal tried to duck those questions as well

Here are the facts MM on how tax cuts increase revenues

Many critics of reducing taxes claim that the Reagan tax cuts drained the U.S. Treasury. The reality is that federal revenues increased significantly between 1980 and 1990:

Total federal revenues doubled from just over $517 billion in 1980 to more than $1 trillion in 1990. In constant inflation-adjusted dollars, this was a 28 percent increase in revenue.3

As a percentage of the gross domestic product (GDP), federal revenues declined only slightly from 18.9 percent in 1980 to 18 percent in 1990.4

Revenues from individual income taxes climbed from just over $244 billion in 1980 to nearly $467 billion in 1990.5 In inflation-adjusted dollars, this amounts to a 25 percent increase.
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Taxes/bg2001.cfm

On the Bush tax cuts increaseing revenues to the government:

Meanwhile, tax revenues continue to roll into the Treasury and state coffers. Federal receipts rose by 14.6% in fiscal 2005, another 11.8% in 2006, and kept rising by 9% in this year's first two months despite slower GDP growth. The budget deficit, in turn, has fallen by $165 billion in two years, and including state surpluses is now down to about 1% of GDP, which as an economic matter is negligible. Tax revenues as a share of the economy are also back above 18.5%, which is their modern historical norm.
http://www.opinionjournal.com/weeken.../?id=110009489

On the increase in revenue from the capital gains tax cut:

Capital Gains Tax Cut Generated More Revenue to Federal Government

WASHINGTON — Despite claims by opponents of capital gains tax cuts, the 2003 reduction on capital gains fully paid for itself and more. A new analysis released today by the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office (pdf ) (CBO) shows capital gains increased 51.1 percent from calendar year 2002 through 2004, far surpassing the forecast by an astonishing $45 billion over three years. This should come as no surprise since history has repeatedly demonstrated a capital gains tax cut is one of the few tax cuts which produce more tax revenue following a rate cut.

http://www.atr.org/content/pdf/2006/...a-capgains.pdf

of your three links, two don't work and the third is from the Heritage Foundation. Would you allow me to post "facts" from moveon.org?

[red states rule]

Nice duck and dodge MM

More on how money if flowing into DC - but to Dems it is not enough


The Shrinking Deficit

We hate to be the bearers of good news, but someone's got to do it: The Congressional Budget Office has released its preliminary estimates for Fiscal Year 2007 that ended September 30, and the federal budget deficit fell again, this time by 35% to $161 billion.

There's more to applaud, if you can stand it: Since 2004, deficit spending has tumbled by $251 billion, which is one of the most rapid three-year declines in U.S. history. The deficit as a share of the economy is down to 1.2%, or about half the average of the last 50 years. This improvement is especially remarkable given the $150 to $200 billion a year of post-9/11 expenses for homeland security and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Americans coughed up a record $2.568 trillion in taxes to the IRS in 2007, or 6.7% more than in 2006. This means federal receipts have climbed by $785 billion since the 2003 investment tax cuts, the largest four-year revenue increase in U.S. history. Income, dividend and capital gains tax rates were all cut in 2003, but individual income tax receipts have soared by 46.3% in four years, with payments by the wealthy accounting for most of the windfall. Last year's increase in individual income payments was 11.3%, or more than double the rate of growth in nominal GDP. Don't worry, class warriors: Hannah Montana and others among the "new rich" are paying their taxes.

Overall federal revenue is now 18.8% of GDP, compared with the 18.2% average of the past 40 years. The nearby table shows how far off CBO was, as usual, in its static-revenue estimates that failed to anticipate the impact of taxes on incentives and growth.

The biggest surprise in fiscal 2007 was the slower growth in federal spending. CBO reports that federal outlays crept up just 2.8% last year (2.5% after adjusting for timing in payments), which was "well below the 7.3 percent average over the previous five years." The decline was largely due to lower disaster-related payments compared with Hurricane Katrina's aftermath the year before, plus the budget deal last winter that kept domestic spending stable as Congress changed hands.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119189497675953035.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

[retiredman]

no dodging or ducking. I answered your question. my answer is legitimate and reasonable.

[red states rule]

no dodging or ducking. I answered your question. my answer is legitimate and reasonable.

Yea, to a tax and spend liberal

Your message to the folks who pay the majority of taxes is "Shut the hell up and fork over more of your money to us"

[retiredman]

here is your question:


So how do you explain the huge increases in revenues to the government AFTER tax cuts?

I explained it like this:


post hoc ergo propter hoc

google it if you need to.

[retiredman]

Yea, to a tax and spend liberal

Your message to the folks who pay the majority of taxes is "Shut the hell up and fork over more of your money to us"
and of course they don't have to shut up...they can get involved in the political process and take an active role in determining national tax policy.

Given your theory, one wonders how we were arble to have any economic success whatsoever during the Clinton administration....:laugh2:

[red states rule]

and of course they don't have to shut up...they can get involved in the political process and take an active role in determining national tax policy.

Given your theory, one wonders how we were arble to have any economic success whatsoever during the Clinton administration....:laugh2:

Pres Bush inherited Clintons recession - and even with 9-11 - his tax cuts broguth the economy back

Even after winning elections, Dems fought tax cuts with all they had - and even today - they ignore the facts on how well the tax cuts worked

Just like you

[retiredman]

his tax cuts broguth the economy back


my answer remains the same.

post hoc ergo propter hoc

[red states rule]

my answer remains the same.

post hoc ergo propter hoc

Translation - Please stop hitting me with facts, my head is about to explode

[retiredman]

Translation - Please stop hitting me with facts, my head is about to explode

translation of RSR's dodging: I really don't have a fucking clue what post hoc ergo propter hoc means so I will just insult MFM as a cover for my ignorance.:lol:

[red states rule]

translation of RSR's dodging: I really don't have a fucking clue what post hoc ergo propter hoc means so I will just insult MFM as a cover for my ignorance.:lol:

I know what it means

As I said, another tax and spend lib used the exact same reply when he was unable to deal with the fact about taxes and who pays them

[retiredman]

I know what it means

As I said, another tax and spend lib used the exact same reply when he was unable to deal with the fact about taxes and who pays them

I understand who pays taxes and I am perfectly happy in repealing the marginal tax breaks to wealthy Americans and returning us to Clinton-era tax rates.

and if you know what it means, prove it. :laugh2:

and don't go cutting and pasting a response. tell me in your own words what post hoc ergo propter hoc means. I dare ya.

[red states rule]

I understand who pays taxes and I am perfectly happy in repealing the marginal tax breaks to wealthy Americans and returning us to Clinton-era tax rates.

and if you know what it means, prove it. :laugh2:

and don't go cutting and pasting a response. tell me in your own words what post hoc ergo propter hoc means. I dare ya.

The "wealthy" are paying MORE in taxes now then they were under Clinton

Why should they have their rates increased?

[glockmail]

....and don't go cutting and pasting a response. tell me in your own words what post hoc ergo propter hoc means. I dare ya.
:lol: Mainemain just learned himself last week: http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=197025&postcount=19

Now he thinks he's an expert.

[red states rule]

:lol: Mainemain just learned himself last week: http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=197025&postcount=19

Now he thinks he's an expert.

Being a liberal he lives by their #1 rule - do not do as I do, do as I say

[retiredman]

:lol: Mainemain just learned himself last week: http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=197025&postcount=19

Now he thinks he's an expert.


actually...my Dad made me take Latin in high school...he had hoped that I would want to follow him into the law. I am no "expert", but I have been aware of the meaning of that particular phrase for about 44 years.:laugh2:

[red states rule]

actually...my Dad made me take Latin in high school...he had hoped that I would want to follow him into the law. I am no "expert", but I have been aware of the meaning of that particular phrase for about 44 years.:laugh2:

You are using it when you are boxed into a corner and counter the facts

[retiredman]

The "wealthy" are paying MORE in taxes now then they were under Clinton

Why should they have their rates increased?

actually, people making over $250K are paying a little less...and they can afford to pay a little more.

[retiredman]

You are using it when you are boxed into a corner and counter the facts

you are attempting to say that because tax cuts preceded government revenue increases, that they also caused those increases, and I do not think you have proven that assertion.

[red states rule]

actually, people making over $250K are paying a little less...and they can afford to pay a little more.

Not so

snip

Consequently, from 2000 to 2004, the share of all individual income taxes paid by the bottom 40 per*cent dropped from zero percent to –4 percent, mean*ing that the average family in those quintiles received a subsidy from the IRS. (See Chart 6.) By contrast, the share paid by the top quintile of households (by income) increased from 81 percent to 85 percent.

Expanding the data to include all federal taxes, the share paid by the top quintile edged up from 66.6 percent in 2000 to 67.1 percent in 2004, while the bottom 40 percent's share dipped from 5.9 per*cent to 5.4 percent. Clearly, the tax cuts have led to the rich shouldering more of the income tax burden and the poor shouldering less

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Taxes/bg2001.cfm

[glockmail]

actually...my Dad made me take Latin in high school...he had hoped that I would want to follow him into the law. I am no "expert", but I have been aware of the meaning of that particular phrase for about 44 years.:laugh2: Just because you took latin in HS doesn't mean that you knew logic. Fact is you only used that or any other logic phrase after I handed you ass to you in that other thread. You get a point for learning, but it gets taken away for failing to admit where you learned it. :slap:

[retiredman]

Just because you took latin in HS doesn't mean that you knew logic. Fact is you only used that or any other logic phrase after I handed you ass to you in that other thread. You get a point for learning, but it gets taken away for failing to admit where you learned it. :slap:

your assumption is incorrect, but feel free to continue with your presumptious egotistical rants. I do find them the source of much humor.

[red states rule]

Hey MM, more facts on taxes

snip

Myth #7: Reversing the upper-income tax cuts would raise substantial revenues.
Fact: The low-income tax cuts reduced revenues the most.

Many critics of tax cuts nonetheless support extending the increased child tax credit, marriage penalty relief, and the 10 percent income tax bracket because these policies strongly benefit low-income tax families. They also support annually adjusting the alternative minimum tax exemption for inflation to prevent a massive broad-based tax increase. These critics assert that repealing the tax cuts for upper-income individuals and investors and bringing back the pre-2001 estate tax levels can raise substantial revenue. Once again, the numbers fail to support this claim.

In 2007, according to CBO and Joint Committee on Taxation data, the increased child tax credit, mar*riage penalty relief, 10 percent bracket, and AMT fix will have a combined budgetary effect of $114 bil*lion.[14] (See Table 2.) These policies do not have strong supply-side effects to minimize that effect.

By comparison, the more maligned capital gains, dividends, and estate tax cuts are projected to reduce 2007 revenues by just $36 billion even before the large and positive supply-side effects are incorporated. Thus, repealing these tax cuts would raise very little revenue and could possibly even reduce federal tax revenue. Such tax increases would certainly reduce the savings and investment vital to economic growth.

The individual income tax rate reductions come to $59 billion in 2007 and are not really a tax cut for the rich. All families with taxable incomes over $62,000 (and single filers over $31,000) benefit. Repealing this tax cut would reduce work incentives and raise taxes on millions of families and small businesses, thereby harming the economy and min*imizing any new revenues.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Taxes/bg2001.cfm

[glockmail]

your assumption is incorrect, but feel free to continue with your presumptious egotistical rants. I do find them the source of much humor.
How does pointing out the fact that you're a borderline socialist who the Navy won't hire make me egotistical? Are you having problems with the English language again?

Hmmmm... maybe that's why they rejected you. Couldn't fill out the application?

[retiredman]

so you are going to be perfectly OK when I start posting op-ed pieces from moveon.org or democratic underground or working for change?:lol:

[red states rule]

so you are going to be perfectly OK when I start posting op-ed pieces from moveon.org or democratic underground or working for change?:lol:

The numnbers being used come from the IRS - they know who makes the money and who pays the taxes

[glockmail]

so you are going to be perfectly OK when I start posting op-ed pieces from moveon.org or democratic underground or working for change?:lol: So you equate those to the Heritage Foundation? I can't wait for this! :laugh2:

[red states rule]

So you equate those to the Heritage Foundation? I can't wait for this! :laugh2:

MM is pissed because his ass was blown out the water once again

Damn those pesky facts!

[retiredman]

The numnbers being used come from the IRS - they know who makes the money and who pays the taxes

the heritage foundation is a well know ultra conservative think tank. and again....your suggestion that tax cuts were the cause of increased revenues has not been proven by you or your links to heritage.

[glockmail]

MM is pissed because his ass was blown out the water once again
....

I have a vision of the Navy tossing his him overboard after feeding him 5 alarm chili, with the resulting eruption doing exactly that. :lol:

[red states rule]

the heritage foundation is a well know ultra conservative think tank. and again....your suggestion that tax cuts were the cause of increased revenues has not been proven by you or your links to heritage.

So the IRS has no idea on who pays the taxes?

I have posted numbers from the IRS that prove you are wrong (nothing new)

Like Iraq, you ingore the facts and the truth and fall back on your DNC approved talking points

[glockmail]

the heritage foundation is a well know ultra conservative think tank. and again....your suggestion that tax cuts were the cause of increased revenues has not been proven by you or your links to heritage. Ronald Reagan subscribed to the HF theories and put them into practice. That caused the longest period of sustained economic growth in US history.

You have just added "Economics" and "Recent US History" to your list of unknowns.

[retiredman]

So the IRS has no idea on who pays the taxes?

I have posted numbers from the IRS that prove you are wrong (nothing new)

Like Iraq, you ingore the facts and the truth and fall back on your DNC approved talking points

I said, that your assertion that lower marginal tax rates for the wealthy CAUSED the increase in revenues is unproven. that is true.

[red states rule]

I said, that your assertion that lower marginal tax rates for the wealthy CAUSED the increase in revenues is unproven. that is true.

No so - not that facts will mean anything to you. Youare either not reading the information or lying


Myth #1: Tax revenues remain low.
Fact: Tax revenues are above the historical average, even after the tax cuts.

Tax revenues in 2006 were 18.4 percent of gross domestic product (GDP), which is actually above the 20-year, 40-year, and 60-year historical aver*ages.[1] The inflation-adjusted 20 percent tax revenue increase between 2004 and 2006 represents the largest two-year revenue surge since 1965–1967.[2] Claims that Americans are undertaxed by historical standards are patently false.

Some critics of President George W. Bush's tax policies concede that tax revenues exceed the his*torical average yet assert that revenues are histori*cally low for economies in the fourth year of an expansion. Setting aside that some of these tax pol*icies are partly responsible for that economic expan*sion, the numbers simply do not support this claim. Comparing tax revenues in the fourth fiscal year after the end of each of the past three recessions shows nearly equal tax revenues of:

18.4 percent of GDP in 1987,
18.5 percent of GDP in 1995, and
18.4 percent of GDP in 2006.[3]
While revenues as a percentage of GDP have not fully returned to pre-recession levels (20.9 percent in 2000), it is now clear that the pre-recession level was a major historical anomaly caused by a tempo*rary stock market bubble.

and

Consequently, from 2000 to 2004, the share of all individual income taxes paid by the bottom 40 per*cent dropped from zero percent to –4 percent, mean*ing that the average family in those quintiles received a subsidy from the IRS. (See Chart 6.) By contrast, the share paid by the top quintile of households (by income) increased from 81 percent to 85 percent.

Expanding the data to include all federal taxes, the share paid by the top quintile edged up from 66.6 percent in 2000 to 67.1 percent in 2004, while the bottom 40 percent's share dipped from 5.9 per*cent to 5.4 percent. Clearly, the tax cuts have led to the rich shouldering more of the income tax burden and the poor shouldering less.[18]

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Taxes/bg2001.cfm

[retiredman]

No so - not that facts will mean anything to you. Youare either not reading the information or lying



no. you misunderstand what I am saying. I am not doubting that Bush cut taxes for the wealthy. I am not doubting that the wealthy are nonetheless paying a marginally greater effective percent of the tax burden now than they did before. I am saying that your assertion that the lower marginal tax rates are the CAUSE for increased government revenues is unproven.

[red states rule]

no. you misunderstand what I am saying. I am not doubting that Bush cut taxes for the wealthy. I am not doubting that the wealthy are nonetheless paying a marginally greater effective percent of the tax burden now than they did before. I am saying that your assertion that the lower marginal tax rates are the CAUSE for increased government revenues is unproven.

Lets see, tax cuts increased revenues for JFK

Tax cuts caused revenues to double under Pre Reagan

and pnce again revenues are at record highs after the Bush tax cuts

I know for a loyal liberal like you, seeing proof tax cuts increase revenues is hard for you - but learn to deal eith the truth

Everyone who earns a paychek got a tax cut MM - not just the "wealthy" you libs love to attack

[eighballsidepocket]

This is the third time I have asked this question, maybe this time I will get an answer......

where do you see hatred of other races in anything posted by this church?.......is there anything wrong with self-awareness, self-promotion, self-help?.....

It's so close to you, you might be overlooking it. :)

Jesus.....the recognized Founder of Christianity, was all inclusive of race and nationality in His church.....or the Body of Christ.

Do you see that all inclusive spirit in Obama's church?

It's pretty obvious, that an actual bible believing Christian of any race other than Black of African decent, is excluded in definite wording.
*******
Not far from where I live, there is a very large non-denominational Christian church that has a majority of Black American members, but also has a minority of latino, Asian and White members too. It's preacher's name is Paul Shepherd. He is black. It is totally following biblical principles and is all inclusive, regardless of race or color. The services there are a blessing to attend. It is not my home church, but I've visited there many times. As a white/caucasian, I am welcomed there with not a hint of rascism.

The very doctrinal statement of Obama's church is anti-biblical, as it is not all inclusive of all mankind of every race or color.

To call oneself a Christian is not to take some biblical doctrine and exclude others. Thats when problems arise when man dictates/fabricates doctrine rather than following what God laid out clearly in scripture.

[Lee~*]

Hello .... :slap: Somewhere in the midst of this pissing match I think ya'll are overlooking some major issues!! The church that Obama has joined to "prove" his christianity will likely help him out with the black vote. If white folks had a church dedicated to Ireland ... and all that bull pucky they express for Africa was redirected to Ireland ... We would be called racists, and the ACLU would be in every orrifice we have and some that they made up for the occasion. I personally think his choice of churches sux, but most likely makes sense to someone who was raised as a Muslim. And educated in an extremist Muslim school. Now maybe I'm just a bit tecthed in the head here, but bear with me a minute longer. If the extremist muslims, who have been carrying on their "Jihad" for several hundred years now, had the patience to put their people in place, educate them in American schools to fly American aircraft in order to execute 9/11 ... what makes you think that they don't have the patience to put one of their own in line to become POTUS? I'm beginning to fear that this nation will be brought down by arrogance and complacency. We are arrogant enough to believe that we, as Americans in America, are safe ... and complacent enough to believe that the government will protect us. Even now, after 9/11 when they flew in right under our noses and in our own planes and wiped out Americans ... we still want to think that we are safe, as if the government has some big force-field around us. I think we need to wake up and smell the damn coffee :coffee:

And that is my two cents worth. Lee~*

[Microcosmos]

Lee~*, I like you, so I'm just gonna gently point out that you probably didn't read this whole thread (which I understand, because it got a little long). If you had, you would have seen the link I posted to a fairly well-recognized objective source, which has this to say:


This claim, and others similar to it, originated with a Jan. 2007 Insight Magazine article – a publication owned by News World Communications, which also owns the conservative Washington Times newspaper:

"Insight: Are the American people ready for an elected president who was educated in a Madrassa as a young boy and has not been forthcoming about his Muslim heritage?"

This article, citing anonymous sources, claimed that "Mr. Obama, 45, spent at least four years in a so-called madrassa, or Muslim seminary, in Indonesia." But this allegation was quickly shown to be false. Days after the article appeared, CNN sent reporter John Vause to Jakarta, Indonesia, to visit the school. He reported:

"CNN: I came here to Barack Obama's elementary school in Jakarta looking for what some are calling an Islamic madrassa ... like the ones that teach hate and violence in Pakistan and Afghanistan. … I've been to those madrassas in Pakistan ... this school is nothing like that."

CNN interviewed the school's deputy headmaster, Hardi Priyono, who said: "This is a public school. We don't focus on religion."

That same day, Obama’s Senate office issued a press release saying the claims in the magazine story were false and citing CNN and other reports. Subsequent news stories in The Washington Post, The Los Angeles Times and The Chicago Tribune found no merit in the madrassa claim. Obama’s childhood in Indonesia, a country with the world’s largest Muslim population, is not something he has attempted to hide. He dedicates pages in his best-selling book "Dreams from My Father" to his life overseas.

This e-mail cobbles together some other false claims that have been circulating for months.

Swore on Koran? The e-mail says "when he was sworn into office he DID NOT use the Holy Bible, but instead the Koran" – bunk yet again. Obama did not place his hand on the Koran when he was sworn into the U.S. Senate. This claim confuses Obama with the first and only Muslim member of Congress, Democratic House member Keith Ellison of Minnesota. Obama was sworn in using his own Bible, as widely reported in newspaper accounts and pictured above. That's his wife holding the Bible with Vice President Dick Cheney swearing him in. (Under the Constitution, the vice president serves as president of the Senate.)

Pledge of Allegiance? The slime doesn’t stop there. The e-mail also claims Obama "will NOT recite the Pledge of Allegiance nor will he show any reverence for our flag" and that "while others place their hands over their hearts, Obama turns his back to the flag and slouches." These e-mails usually come with this photo, seen here as it appears on Time.com's Web site.

The photograph was taken during a "steak-fry" for Sen. Tom Harkin of Iowa on Sept. 16, 2007. What is pictured is the singing of the national anthem, not a recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance. For proof, see this video taken by ABC News during the event.

And for proof that Obama has no problem reciting the Pledge of Allegiance, check this video of C-SPAN’s recording of the Senate’s morning business, with Obama presiding, on June 21, 2007. Or this one from Feb. 1, 2007.

A point not raised in this e-mail: Some have complained that Obama should have placed his hand over his heart during the singing of the anthem, as pictured in the Time photo. It is true that the U.S. Code states that "all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart." But the word "should" rather than "shall" makes that a recommendation and not a legal requirement. To confirm, we spoke with Anne Garside, director of communication for the Maryland Historical Society – home of the original manuscript of "The Star-Spangled Banner," and asked if anyone could be punished for not placing their hands over their hearts during the national anthem. She quickly replied, "Oh, of course not," adding that "there is no obligation to put your hand over your heart." Garside told us she has been asked numerous times about this rumor and finds the controversy to have "gotten a little bit ridiculous."

Here is the link, so you can see the photos and videos mentioned, along with the rest of the article: http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/sliming_obama.html

I see that you're a Republican, but I'd also like to see that you're a well-informed Republican!

Cheers,

Sean

[Lee~*]

Ok Sean, I am not afraid to be wrong, nor to admit when I am. Thankyou for your diplomatic way of enlightening me! I must admit to not being a news hound, so I am not "up" on all the news that is news. Most of my info is gleaned from the internet, and I'm beginning to believe that its as bad as the media! I perhaps should have picked Independant instead of Republican ... I'm going to vote for the person who makes the most sense to me, regardless of their party affiliation. Even if it comes down to voting as I did in the last election ... I voted for the one that I saw as the lesser of two evils.

Some folks live and learn ... others just live. Lee~*

[Microcosmos]

& this is why I like you!
:rock:
you rock!

[nevadamedic]

& this is why I like you!
:rock:
you rock!

You realize your buying a load of crap from the worlds largest fertalizer salesman(Obama Bin Laden).

[Microcosmos]

name calling does not impress me. Facts do.

[red states rule]

You realize your buying a load of crap from the worlds largest fertalizer salesman(Obama Bin Laden).

Seems like McCain has that title - and it is working

[glockmail]

bump

[westcoast]

bump

Your purpose for bumping this?

[red states rule]

Lee~*, I like you, so I'm just gonna gently point out that you probably didn't read this whole thread (which I understand, because it got a little long). If you had, you would have seen the link I posted to a fairly well-recognized objective source, which has this to say:



Here is the link, so you can see the photos and videos mentioned, along with the rest of the article: http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/sliming_obama.html

I see that you're a Republican, but I'd also like to see that you're a well-informed Republican!

Cheers,

Sean

Sen and Ms Obama both suffer from the hate whotey syndrome. They are racists of the worst kind.

[westcoast]

Sen and Ms Obama both suffer from the hate whotey syndrome. They are racists of the worst kind.

And didn't they both suffer at the hands of white men?

[red states rule]

And didn't they both suffer at the hands of white men?

Let's see, they both attened the finest schools in America

She makes a huge 6 figure income where she works

He had a couple books published, and elected the the US Senate

He is close to being the Dem nomination for President

They live in a $1 million plus home

IS that what you call "suffering"?

[Gaffer]

And didn't they both suffer at the hands of white men?

Suffer how?

[red states rule]

Suffer how?

They both got a blister from counting all the money they made

[Yurt]

Let's see, they both attened the finest schools in America

She makes a huge 6 figure income where she works

He had a couple books published, and elected the the US Senate

He is close to being the Dem nomination for President

They live in a $1 million plus home

IS that what you call "suffering"?

ha, and they bitch about being behind the "curve" LOOL

[red states rule]

ha, and they bitch about being behind the "curve" LOOL

and how Amercia is run by rich whites

[glockmail]

Your purpose for bumping this? Because, according to a certain pansy that shall remain un-named, I'm an arrogant tread bumper. Is that a problem for you? :pee:

[glockmail]

Let's see, they both attened the finest schools in America

She makes a huge 6 figure income where she works

He had a couple books published, and elected the the US Senate

He is close to being the Dem nomination for President

They live in a $1 million plus home

IS that what you call "suffering"?

You forgot to mention that her salary tripled when B. Hussein became a senator, and they bought their mansion at 40 cents on the dollar through a lobbyist.

I wish I was behind the same curve. :pee:

[red states rule]

You forgot to mention that her salary tripled when B. Hussein became a senator, and they bought their mansion at 40 cents on the dollar through a lobbyist.

I wish I was behind the same curve. :pee:

Be a slimy IL politican with a mobbed up fund raiser and you can be behind the curve as well

[glockmail]

Be a slimy IL politican with a mobbed up fund raiser and you can be behind the curve as well But I'm not black, and my ears are regular sized.

[Kathianne]

And didn't they both suffer at the hands of white men?

Please expound with examples.

[glockmail]

Someone looked at them funny. Of course the fact that he has huge ears and she has a nice rack had nothing to do with that....

[red states rule]

But I'm not black, and my ears are regular sized.

With Obama, color and ears did not matter. He had all the necessary qualifications to deal with the mobbed up fundraiser - he was elected and could peddle his services

[red states rule]

Grab the barf bag folks. The liberal bimbos on the view gave us this gem yesterday


'View' Co-Hosts Compare Jeremiah Wright to Martin Luther King
By Justin McCarthy | April 7, 2008 - 14:35 ET

"The View" co-hosts will go so far to defend Reverend Jeremiah Wright and by extension Barack Obama, that they will even throw Martin Luther King Jr. under the bus. Discussing Wright again on the April 7 edition, the ladies justified Wright’s words by noting some very controversial remarks by the late Dr. King. Sherri Shepherd, apparently taking Michael Eric Dyson’s cue, quoted King predicting America "will put black people in a concentration camp." Joy Behar, in a hopeful tone, added "Maybe someday Reverend Wright’s words will be taken out of- in a different context. It’s possible."

Whoopi Goldberg also justified Wright’s extreme sermons, opining he is bringing his anger from a different era. Elisabeth Hasselbeck wondered what happened to "Father forgive them for they know not what they do." Whoopi Goldberg again justified Wright’s anger.

"But in America, what I’m, I guess I’m trying to say is, yeah it’s, it’s very easy to say, you know, ‘forgive them Father.’ And, you know, black folks are real resilient. We have forgiven and we continue to forgive and we get up and we get down, and we get up and we get down. But you can’t, you can’t take someone’s anger from them when that’s how they feel. Just like for me, when I’m angry about something, this is a good place for me to go do it. I might not be able to do it any place else. So it’s just an interesting thing to see that the same kinds of things are happening but in a different way."

for the complete article

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/justin-mccarthy/2008/04/07/view-co-hosts-compare-jeremiah-wright-martin-luther-king

[midcan5]

What a load of racist assholes. How funny that Romney is criticized for the church he belongs to, Huckabee is criticized for being an ordained minister and yet Obama is a member of this church and there isn't a peep from the "news" media. This is their site, read it for yourself, but don't try to join them if you are white because they won't let you in......... I wonder what they say to Obambam's mammy.

Talk about great irony. Romney and Huckabee were criticized by their own party, you need to show us where it differed for any other candidate. And more irony as Obama is the only one getting criticized for his minister over and over and over...

And your last line is racist, you at least recognize that I hope, or is that more irony. Too funny, now move on to something important.

"For we have a choice in this country. We can accept a politics that breeds division, and conflict, and cynicism. We can tackle race only as spectacle – as we did in the OJ trial – or in the wake of tragedy, as we did in the aftermath of Katrina - or as fodder for the nightly news. We can play Reverend Wright’s sermons on every channel, every day and talk about them from now until the election, and make the only question in this campaign whether or not the American people think that I somehow believe or sympathize with his most offensive words. We can pounce on some gaffe by a Hillary supporter as evidence that she’s playing the race card, or we can speculate on whether white men will all flock to John McCain in the general election regardless of his policies.

We can do that.

But if we do, I can tell you that in the next election, we’ll be talking about some other distraction. And then another one. And then another one. And nothing will change." Barack Obama

[red states rule]

Talk about great irony. Romney and Huckabee were criticized by their own party, you need to show us where it differed for any other candidate. And more irony as Obama is the only one getting criticized for his minister over and over and over...

And your last line is racist, you at least recognize that I hope, or is that more irony. Too funny, now move on to something important.

"For we have a choice in this country. We can accept a politics that breeds division, and conflict, and cynicism. We can tackle race only as spectacle – as we did in the OJ trial – or in the wake of tragedy, as we did in the aftermath of Katrina - or as fodder for the nightly news. We can play Reverend Wright’s sermons on every channel, every day and talk about them from now until the election, and make the only question in this campaign whether or not the American people think that I somehow believe or sympathize with his most offensive words. We can pounce on some gaffe by a Hillary supporter as evidence that she’s playing the race card, or we can speculate on whether white men will all flock to John McCain in the general election regardless of his policies.

We can do that.

But if we do, I can tell you that in the next election, we’ll be talking about some other distraction. And then another one. And then another one. And nothing will change." Barack Obama

Obama is a racist, much like his mentor

Only libs would think America created AIDS to wipe out blacks, or America deserved 9-11

You can try to duck and spin, but the bottom line is Obama(and his wife) are black racists who holds America in low esteem

[Classact]

is spouting CHANGE! And if he doesn't get his way he will hold his breath and turn purple.


But if we do, I can tell you that in the next election, we’ll be talking about some other distraction. And then another one. And then another one. And nothing will change." Barack ObamaHow can anyone listen to this double talk and not see through it?

When, oh when has Obama caused change?

When, oh when has Obama indicated he can play well with others?

This election, the general election will see race set back by three decades thanks to Obama's inability to explain to the Afro-American base that his Rev. Wright is a racist, those that follow his teaching are racists.

Yes, we will have distractions like Obama's minister and his failure to identify his teachings as racists clearly. We will hear about Obama's affiliation with terrorists that brag about attacking American and only complain they were not successful on the day of 9-11... And, yes we will learn that Obama was supported by the Communist Party along with other black leaders in Illinois.

These things are distracting! They are so distracting that no other elected member will desire to be affiliated with an Obama administration and the change he would bring to America. He desires communism, hates America and thinks the black race is being held down by the "man". Very distracting and void of reality.

[red states rule]

is spouting CHANGE! And if he doesn't get his way he will hold his breath and turn purple.

How can anyone listen to this double talk and not see through it?

When, oh when has Obama caused change?

When, oh when has Obama indicated he can play well with others?

This election, the general election will see race set back by three decades thanks to Obama's inability to explain to the Afro-American base that his Rev. Wright is a racist, those that follow his teaching are racists.

Yes, we will have distractions like Obama's minister and his failure to identify his teachings as racists clearly. We will hear about Obama's affiliation with terrorists that brag about attacking American and only complain they were not successful on the day of 9-11... And, yes we will learn that Obama was supported by the Communist Party along with other black leaders in Illinois.

These things are distracting! They are so distracting that no other elected member will desire to be affiliated with an Obama administration and the change he would bring to America. He desires communism, hates America and thinks the black race is being held down by the "man". Very distracting and void of reality.

If Obama would tell the truth about Wright, Obama would lose most of the black vote

Obama is putting his own political gain ahead of the truth, logic, and reason

[bullypulpit]

Man...Talk about beating a DEAD horse...:laugh2: Y'all have beat the poor animal to death, stood it up and have kept beating it!

That you, and the RWN talking heads, continue to do so show just how utterly, intellectually bankrupt the right wing-nut base of the GOP is. You dredge up this corpse, which Obama laid to rest, and parade it about like it was a living, breathing issue (Necrophilia comes to mind here) because y'all can't debate either Obama OR Hillary Clieberman on the issues 'cause you'll get beaten like a gong EVERY time.

[red states rule]

Man...Talk about beating a DEAD horse...:laugh2: Y'all have beat the poor animal to death, stood it up and have kept beating it!

That you, and the RWN talking heads, continue to do so show just how utterly, intellectually bankrupt the right wing-nut base of the GOP is. You dredge up this corpse, which Obama laid to rest, and parade it about like it was a living, breathing issue (Necrophilia comes to mind here) because y'all can't debate either Obama OR Hillary Clieberman on the issues 'cause you'll get beaten like a gong EVERY time.


So Lanny Davis is a WRN? Or only WRN's call a racist on thier racist statements?


Obama's Minister Problem
By LANNY J. DAVIS
April 9, 2008; Page A15

snip

My concerns were retriggered when I read for the first time three excerpts from Rev. Wright's sermons published several weeks ago in a national news magazine:

- "We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon, and we never batted an eye. We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought right back to our own front yards. America's chickens are coming home to roost."
-- Sept. 16, 2001 (the first Sunday after 9/11)

- "The government . . . wants us to sing God Bless America. No, no, no. God damn America; that's in the bible, for killing innocent people. God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human."
-- 2003

- "The United States of White America."
-- July 22, 2007

As I read and reread these words, I keep thinking: If my rabbi ever uttered such hateful words from the pulpit about America and declared all Palestinians to be terrorists, I have no doubt I would have withdrawn immediately from his congregation.

In his eloquent Philadelphia speech, Mr. Obama likened Rev. Wright to a beloved, but politically extremist, family member with whom one profoundly disagrees but whose rage one understands.

But this comparison just doesn't work for me. I don't get a chance to choose my family members. I do get a chance to choose my spiritual or religious leader and my congregation. And I do not have to remain silent or, more importantly, expose my children to the spiritual leader of my congregation who spews hate that offends my conscience.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120770107738700007.html?mod=opinion_main_comment aries

[bullypulpit]

So Lanny Davis is a WRN? Or only WRN's call a racist on thier racist statements?


Obama's Minister Problem
By LANNY J. DAVIS
April 9, 2008; Page A15

snip

My concerns were retriggered when I read for the first time three excerpts from Rev. Wright's sermons published several weeks ago in a national news magazine:

- "We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon, and we never batted an eye. We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought right back to our own front yards. America's chickens are coming home to roost."
-- Sept. 16, 2001 (the first Sunday after 9/11)

- "The government . . . wants us to sing God Bless America. No, no, no. God damn America; that's in the bible, for killing innocent people. God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human."
-- 2003

- "The United States of White America."
-- July 22, 2007

As I read and reread these words, I keep thinking: If my rabbi ever uttered such hateful words from the pulpit about America and declared all Palestinians to be terrorists, I have no doubt I would have withdrawn immediately from his congregation.

In his eloquent Philadelphia speech, Mr. Obama likened Rev. Wright to a beloved, but politically extremist, family member with whom one profoundly disagrees but whose rage one understands.

But this comparison just doesn't work for me. I don't get a chance to choose my family members. I do get a chance to choose my spiritual or religious leader and my congregation. And I do not have to remain silent or, more importantly, expose my children to the spiritual leader of my congregation who spews hate that offends my conscience.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120770107738700007.html?mod=opinion_main_comment aries

Davis is a die-hard Clintonista who keeps beating the same dead horse y'all are because the Clinton Presidential campaign is in desperation mode. Grasping at ANY straw, no matter how feeble it is, he and other Clinton supporters are trying to gain traction. The air of inevitability the Clinton campaign claimed at the beginning of the primaries has evaporate like a fog in the morning sun.

BTW, why are so many RWN's so eager to see Hillary get the nomination?

[red states rule]

Davis is a die-hard Clintonista who keeps beating the same dead horse y'all are because the Clinton Presidential campaign is in desperation mode. Grasping at ANY straw, no matter how feeble it is, he and other Clinton supporters are trying to gain traction. The air of inevitability the Clinton campaign claimed at the beginning of the primaries has evaporate like a fog in the morning sun.

BTW, why are so many RWN's so eager to see Hillary get the nomination?

Sems libs like you BP are checking the standards they hold Republicans to when it come to racism at the door

I love seeing your party being ripped apart with their little civil war.

Obama is a racist idiot, along with his angry wife.

It is funny to see so many libs who praised them for 8 years are now turning on them because they are using their usual hardball tactics against a black liberal

[bullypulpit]

Sems libs like you BP are checking the standards they hold Republicans to when it come to racism at the door

I love seeing your party being ripped apart with their little civil war.

Obama is a racist idiot, along with his angry wife.

It is funny to see so many libs who praised them for 8 years are now turning on them because they are using their usual hardball tactics against a black liberal

What the fuck are you talking about? Nothing in your post even approaches rational thought. But then, what's new and different about that?

[red states rule]

What the fuck are you talking about? Nothing in your post even approaches rational thought. But then, what's new and different about that?

I am not surprised you do not understand the facts about Obama and your party

Libs are on constant watch for any hint of racism (real or not) from republicans. They pounce the moment they hear anything with a hint of racism (real or not)

Yet with Obama, his wife, and pastor they ignore, spin, and lie about the blatant racism strictly for political reasons

Since 1992 libs have sang the parises of Bill and Hillary and cheered as they used every dirty trick against Republicans. Libs told us what great Amercicans were as they battled the evil Republicans

However when they use the same tactics against a black liberal, these same libs now turn on the Clintons, and say how they are destroying their party

[retiredman]

a few excellent articles from a great magazine entitled "The Christian Century". When the April 22nd edition, which I got in the mail last week, gets posted online, I will link to a few other articles on this same subject:

http://www.christiancentury.org/article.lasso?id=4676

http://www.christiancentury.org/article.lasso?id=4678

I recommend then to anyone who wishes to broaden their perspective on Jeremiah Wright.

I realize full well that many on here have no desire to have their perspectives on that issue broadened and that is sad.

[Dilloduck]

a few excellent articles from a great magazine entitled "The Christian Century". When the April 22nd edition, which I got in the mail last week, gets posted online, I will link to a few other articles on this same subject:

http://www.christiancentury.org/article.lasso?id=4676

http://www.christiancentury.org/article.lasso?id=4678

I recommend then to anyone who wishes to broaden their perspective on Jeremiah Wright.

I realize full well that many on here have no desire to have their perspectives on that issue broadened and that is sad.

It's sad that you can accept this whitewash job of Wrights' speech.

http://www.christiancentury.org/article.lasso?id=4676

If he hadn't have given his speech he might be an OK guy. :laugh2:

[red states rule]

a few excellent articles from a great magazine entitled "The Christian Century". When the April 22nd edition, which I got in the mail last week, gets posted online, I will link to a few other articles on this same subject:

http://www.christiancentury.org/article.lasso?id=4676

http://www.christiancentury.org/article.lasso?id=4678

I recommend then to anyone who wishes to broaden their perspective on Jeremiah Wright.

I realize full well that many on here have no desire to have their perspectives on that issue broadened and that is sad.

Lets see, he slimed whites, Italians, and Jews

Has he added any other groups?

I find him a typical liberal - he smears rich whites, the he has his chuirch build him a huge mansion in an all white gated community

[bullypulpit]

With all of the right wing bullshit that's being sprayed on this thread about Obama's relationship with the Rev Wright and how he should stop going to the church, I got to thinking. Does that mean that given the abuse of children by Catholic priests and the inaction of the Church, all Catholics should abandon the Church? That is the same logic in a nutshell.

[red states rule]

With all of the right wing bullshit that's being sprayed on this thread about Obama's relationship with the Rev Wright and how he should stop going to the church, I got to thinking. Does that mean that given the abuse of children by Catholic priests and the inaction of the Church, all Catholics should abandon the Church? That is the same logic in a nutshell.

Ah, just like a liberal - change the subject and attack

What's the matter BP - hate to see outrught liberal racism on display?

And examples of Barry's piss poor judgement and racism?

[Kathianne]

With all of the right wing bullshit that's being sprayed on this thread about Obama's relationship with the Rev Wright and how he should stop going to the church, I got to thinking. Does that mean that given the abuse of children by Catholic priests and the inaction of the Church, all Catholics should abandon the Church? That is the same logic in a nutshell.

Actually many Catholics did stop going to certain churches and overall donations are down. For me personally, I was disgusted when our diocese mandated that we cannot take kids for overnight trips, meaning DC, NYC, Boston, and Philadelphia could not be done. Even Springfield in IL is a problem, as it takes 3 hours each way.

[bullypulpit]

Ah, just like a liberal - change the subject and attack

What's the matter BP - hate to see outrught liberal racism on display?

And examples of Barry's piss poor judgement and racism?

No, taking the logic used by you, and other dupes, to its conclusion.

What racism?

Barry who?

Do you have "spell-check" on your browser? If so, you really need to use it.

[retiredman]

Lets see, he slimed whites, Italians, and Jews

Has he added any other groups?

I find him a typical liberal - he smears rich whites, the he has his chuirch build him a huge mansion in an all white gated community

did you bother to read either of those articles?

[red states rule]

No, taking the logic used by you, and other dupes, to its conclusion.

What racism?

Barry who?

Do you have "spell-check" on your browser? If so, you really need to use it.

You are just another Kool Aide drinking liberal who never sees liberal racism, even when it right beofre your eyes

But is always on wacth for any conservative racism (real or not)

[red states rule]

did you bother to read either of those articles?

I do not need to read any books to know Wright is a racist asshole. he has alrwady made that point very clear

Except to the Barry Kool Aide drinkers, who know it to be true, but will not admit it

[retiredman]

I do not need to read any books to know Wright is a racist asshole. he has alrwady made that point very clear

Except to the Barry Kool Aide drinkers, who know it to be true, but will not admit it


so The Christian Century is now a publication of Barry koolaide drinkers?

I DARE you to read those two articles. They are not very long. Considering all the cut and paste spam that you foist upon this board every single day, it really isn't TOO much to ask for you to have to do a little reading of someone else's links once in a while.

Or do facts scare you?

[red states rule]

so The Christian Century is now a publication of Barry koolaide drinkers?

I DARE you to read those two articles. They are not very long. Considering all the cut and paste spam that you foist upon this board every single day, it really isn't TOO much to ask for you to have to do a little reading of someone else's links once in a while.

Or do facts scare you?

I alrwady need to know all about the racist, and huckster Rev Wright. He is a moonbat kook who tells his flock one thing, and then does the exact opposite

He preaches hate toward whites and America

But because your boy is buddies with him, you give him a pass and refuse to accept reality

Party above all else with you as usual

[retiredman]

I alrwady need to know all about the racist, and huckster Rev Wright. He is a moonbat kook who tells his flock one thing, and then does the exact opposite

He preaches hate toward whites and America

But because your boy is buddies with him, you give him a pass and refuse to accept reality

Party above all else with you as usual
what does The Christian Century have to do with party?

Why won't you read these two short articles? YOu post articles for me to read all the time and claim I am running away from facts when I don't stop doing whatever it is I am doing and address your posts. Your turn. Don't be afraid of two short articles from a religious - and not political - journal.

[red states rule]

what does The Christian Century have to do with party?

Why won't you read these two short articles? YOu post articles for me to read all the time and claim I am running away from facts when I don't stop doing whatever it is I am doing and address your posts. Your turn. Don't be afraid of two short articles from a religious - and not political - journal.

I know you will never bring yourself to admit Wright is a racist bigot - that is how you operate. Being one of Barry's friends (along with terrorsts) you will defend to your last breath

[retiredman]

I know you will never bring yourself to admit Wright is a racist bigot - that is how you operate. Being one of Barry's friends (along with terrorsts) you will defend to your last breath

two short articles. go ahead... it won't take you that long to read. For all those op-eds you have foisted on me over the years....just go ahead and read two short articles.

[red states rule]

two short articles. go ahead... it won't take you that long to read. For all those op-eds you have foisted on me over the years....just go ahead and read two short articles.

Once again, I donnot have to read annthing about Wright to know he is a racist asshole

You se him as a guiding light for your boy - another racist

[retiredman]

Once again, I donnot have to read annthing about Wright to know he is a racist asshole

You se him as a guiding light for your boy - another racist

I don't see him as any such guiding light in the least.

But as I said, if you are so unwilling to face facts that don't conform with your predetermined view, don't expect me to waste a moment of MY time reading shit that YOU post. Fair is fair....you wanna post articles and expect folks to read them, you need to be willing to read what others post for your enlightenment. sorry.

[red states rule]

I don't see him as any such guiding light in the least.

But as I said, if you are so unwilling to face facts that don't conform with your predetermined view, don't expect me to waste a moment of MY time reading shit that YOU post. Fair is fair....you wanna post articles and expect folks to read them, you need to be willing to read what others post for your enlightenment. sorry.

You do not read anything not approved on your fax list form Obama 08 :laugh2:

Besides, since when have you ever been interested in facts?