Economic Stimulus

[Classact]

I hope there isn't a thread on this topic all ready.

To stir and start the debate on the issue I ask first is economic stimulus necessary to boost the economy away from recession?

What do you find as the main problem for the downturn in the economy?

Would giving people a check to spend help and if so how could that help?

Would a tax cut help and if so for whom or on what?

I think all of the problems in the economy is based on the cost of energy and the only way to fix the problem is to fix our energy problem. Don't send a check, remove all federal tax from gas pumps for three to six months and end ethanol subsidies.

I say end ethanol subsidies because outside of gas the largest inflation is in the food area directly related to the diversion of corn to make fuel.

Open federal lands to natural gas exploration to reduce the price of natural gas. If natural gas price was cut in half electricity and heating costs would follow. Likewise it would be more profitable for businesses if natural gas was equal to the price in Mexico or Canada. Plentiful natural gas would be a deflating factor equal to a pay raise for every American in my opinion.

[red states rule]

What we need is more tax cuts from the government. The Bush tax cuts have done wonders for the US economy. Revenues are at record highs, and we have a 95% employment rate

The Fed will probably cut interest rates in a couple of weeks, which will also help

The Dems on the other hands want more government hand outs, and tax increases on the producers. Which will hurt the economy and do little to spur economic growth

[Classact]

What we need is more tax cuts from the government. The Bush tax cuts have done wonders for the US economy. Revenues are at record highs, and we have a 95% employment rate

The Fed will probably cut interest rates in a couple of weeks, which will also help

The Dems on the other hands want more government hand outs, and tax increases on the producers. Which will hurt the economy and do little to spur economic growthYou are right on!

I think another thing that could help the economy would be for President Bush to open the strategic oil supply to the oil industry at prices the oil was purchased, Bush was filling the thing when oil was $55 a barrel and if he did this it would cause the oil futures to fall like a rock as surplus oil hit the market. Then as the cheaper oil hit the market let Bush administration refill the SPR.

Same block on the Rep guess I'll have to contact admin.

[red states rule]

You are right on!

I think another thing that could help the economy would be for President Bush to open the strategic oil supply to the oil industry at prices the oil was purchased, Bush was filling the thing when oil was $55 a barrel and if he did this it would cause the oil futures to fall like a rock as surplus oil hit the market. Then as the cheaper oil hit the market let Bush administration refill the SPR.

Same block on the Rep guess I'll have to contact admin.

I do not agree with releasing the oil Classact. If the government wants to help with gas prices - repeal the taxes on gas

When you add up the taxes by local, state, and the federal government - you get about 45 to 60 cents per gallon

What we need to do is to build and expand refineries, drillo for all the oil we have within our borders

Expand nuclear power, use more coal, and tel the envio wackos to shut the hell up

[Hagbard Celine]

I think it's all about energy and the housing market. We're on the cusp of going into a recession now mainly because lenders went batsh*t crazy giving out subprime mortgages and now that interest hikes are hitting borrowers they're unable to pay, which is breaking the backs of lenders and it's sending a ripple effect through the economy that's affecting the stock markets, consumer spending, etc. When you add the fact that we're at war and the Arabs have got our nuts in a vice with their disgraceful oil prices the middle class especially is feeling the hurt. I think we need to declare a "war on energy dependence" --start drilling Alaska and the Gulf. Open up the gov't strategic oil supply and flood the market with cheap oil. I don't think another tax cut for the wealthy is the answer.

[red states rule]

I think it's all about energy and the housing market. We're on the cusp of going into a recession now mainly because lenders went batsh*t crazy giving out subprime mortgages and now that interest hikes are hitting borrowers they're unable to pay, which is breaking the backs of lenders and it's sending a ripple effect through the economy that's affecting the stock markets, consumer spending, etc. When you add the fact that we're at war and the Arabs have got our nuts in a vice with their disgraceful oil prices the middle class especially is feeling the hurt. I think we need to declare a "war on energy dependence" --start drilling Alaska and the Gulf. Open up the gov't strategic oil supply and flood the market with cheap oil. I don't think another tax cut for the wealthy is the answer.

The Bush tax cuts went to people who pay taxes. When you have 50% of the wage earners paying 97% of the taxes - guess who get the tax cut?

The people who pay the taxes

Only 5% of homeowners are late with their mortage payments,a nd the government has no business trying to regulate the issue

Cut the taxs on gas and you will lower the price. Flooding the market will not do much for the long term

[Pale Rider]

To stir and start the debate on the issue I ask first is economic stimulus necessary to boost the economy away from recession?

What do you find as the main problem for the downturn in the economy?
A combination of government spending, entitlements, the cost of energy/fuel, and the cost of living going up far faster than people's incomes.


Would giving people a check to spend help and if so how could that help?
No. In essence, you'd be giving people their own money to spend because that money would have came from taxes they paid. That would be like borrowing money from the bank to pay off the money you just borrowed.


Would a tax cut help and if so for whom or on what?
What we need to do is completely do away with our present tax code and enact a flat tax. Everybody pays the same. Poor, middle class and rich. 13% on income above $35K a year.


I think all of the problems in the economy is based on the cost of energy and the only way to fix the problem is to fix our energy problem. Don't send a check, remove all federal tax from gas pumps for three to six months and end ethanol subsidies.

I say end ethanol subsidies because outside of gas the largest inflation is in the food area directly related to the diversion of corn to make fuel.

Open federal lands to natural gas exploration to reduce the price of natural gas. If natural gas price was cut in half electricity and heating costs would follow. Likewise it would be more profitable for businesses if natural gas was equal to the price in Mexico or Canada. Plentiful natural gas would be a deflating factor equal to a pay raise for every American in my opinion.
Absolutely our energy dependency is a large part of our problems. We need to wean ourselves off that middle eastern tit. We need new oil and natural gas exploration, a new refinery or two, and massive incentives for research and development for new energy solutions. If we could tell the rag heads to fuck off and die, drink your fucking oil, we don't need it, we'd never have to deal with the sons a bitches again, unless it was to make a fucking parking lot out of the M.E..

[Hagbard Celine]

The Bush tax cuts went to people who pay taxes. When you have 50% of the wage earners paying 97% of the taxes - guess who get the tax cut?

The people who pay the taxes

Only 5% of homeowners are late with their mortage payments,a nd the government has no business trying to regulate the issue

Cut the taxs on gas and you will lower the price. Flooding the market will not do much for the long term

Well see you're arguing that the gov't shouldn't regulate by helping-out the housing industry, but you want them to do exactly that by cutting taxes to regulate the energy sector of the economy. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Have you ever thought that maybe they could do both? If you cut taxes on gas AND flooded the market with cheap oil it would be like jumpstarting the economy by putting "liquid schwartz" into the proverbial tank.

[Classact]

I think it's all about energy and the housing market. We're on the cusp of going into a recession now mainly because lenders went batsh*t crazy giving out subprime mortgages and now that interest hikes are hitting borrowers they're unable to pay, which is breaking the backs of lenders and it's sending a ripple effect through the economy that's affecting the stock markets, consumer spending, etc. When you add the fact that we're at war and the Arabs have got our nuts in a vice with their disgraceful oil prices the middle class especially is feeling the hurt. I think we need to declare a "war on energy dependence" --start drilling Alaska and the Gulf. Open up the gov't strategic oil supply and flood the market with cheap oil. I don't think another tax cut for the wealthy is the answer.I think the people who took the sub-prime loans should suck it up on one hand and then the government was complicit just like illegal immigration... I don't think regulation is the answer but these semi govt backed Fanny's need to have their wings clipped for making crappy loans. Damn every time I bought a house there was a lawyer there that answered every question I had and I can't imagine a situation where a home buyer and a banker sit down alone ending with the borrower not knowing what is going down or what could go down under different situations.

The fact is there are billions of dollars of value lost in sub-prime homes and, more importantly everyone else's home. American savings is mostly in homes and now a lot of that savings is lost on paper until the market recovers. To compound the problem so many people have taken second mortgages and are at a minus in home value and maxed out on their credit cards. Housing is a fair sized percentage of the US economy since we don't manufacture hardly anything these days so if you have a negative savings and a maxed credit card and are a home builder, salesman or related you are in deep kimchee... and, it's like being second player on a pool game when on ball is hit more are moved around and more folks are hurt when service industry jobs cut back because less and less folks have spending money.

Maybe a freeze on foreclosures for a period would help other home owners to build some equity in their homes so an implosions doesn't occur?

Perhaps a national savings incentive would help? Perhaps the gvt could offer a higher percentage rate for federal debt that is offered to the world marker to keep money in the US. Or, workplace US savings bonds with an exceptional interest rate... $12.50 would buy a $30 bond redeemable in eight years, or $25 would make $60 and so on. The banks need money to lend and now it is out on credit cards and little in equity in homes. With a national savings our debt could be better kept at home in stead of going to Saudi Arabia or China and when the bonds were cashed it would be spent here.

[red states rule]

Well see you're arguing that the gov't shouldn't regulate by helping-out the housing industry, but you want them to do exactly that by cutting taxes to regulate the energy sector of the economy. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Have you ever thought that maybe they could do both? If you cut taxes on gas AND flooded the market with cheap oil it would be like jumpstarting the economy by putting "liquid schwartz" into the proverbial tank.

How is cutting taxes the same as telling mortgaga holders they have to freeze their rates?

What do Dems want to do to stimulate the economy?

The elements of the package, as described by the campaign:

— Establishing a $30 billion Emergency Housing Crisis Fund to assist states and cities in mitigating the effects of foreclosures: “Her $30 billion fund would provide immediate, time-limited resources to states, cities and community organizations to help prevent unnecessary foreclosures. States and communities could also use the funds to offset the costs associated with vacant properties by supporting efforts like community-level anti-blight programs and helping local housing authorities buy up vacant properties and rent them to working families.”

— Providing $25 billion in emergency energy assistance for families facing skyrocketing heating bills: “The grants will the purchasing power of energy assistance to where it was five years ago. And they will ensure that hardworking families and seniors on fixed incomes will not have to choose between heating their homes, putting food on the table or purchasing prescription drugs this winter.”

— Accelerating $5 billion in energy efficiency and alternative energy investments to jump-start green collar job growth: “The immediate actions that could be part of a 2008 stimulus could include a crash weatherization program to cut home energy costs by up to 20 percent this winter; expanded tax credits to encourage families and businesses to accelerate purchases of hybrids and other low-emission vehicles and to reduce energy costs by purchasing efficient appliances, new windows and other clean, efficient technologies; and acceleration of a Green Building Fund and green collar job training program to put tens of thousands of people to work making schools and other public buildings energy efficient.”

— Investing $10 billion in extending and broadening unemployment insurance for those who are struggling to find work: “By strengthening our unemployment insurance program and extending unemployment insurance for workers who are laid off for extended periods, this effort will empower more Americans to re-enter the labor market in good-paying jobs.”
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0108/7842.html

In other words, nothing for the economy - but plenty of handouts to buy votes

[Kathianne]

I do not agree with releasing the oil Classact. If the government wants to help with gas prices - repeal the taxes on gas

When you add up the taxes by local, state, and the federal government - you get about 45 to 60 cents per gallon

What we need to do is to build and expand refineries, drillo for all the oil we have within our borders

Expand nuclear power, use more coal, and tel the envio wackos to shut the hell up

I agree with this. I also think the feds, states, local municipalities should reduce or end their gas taxes for 6 months or so. Make permanent the Bush tax cuts, set to expire in 2010.

[red states rule]

I agree with this. I also think the feds, states, local municipalities should reduce or end their gas taxes for 6 months or so. Make permanent the Bush tax cuts, set to expire in 2010.

The local, state, and federal governments are awash with our money - they can suspend the gas tax and give working families a break

After all. Dems CLAIM to care about working families - right?

[retiredman]

RSR... why does the economy NEED stimulation? Haven't you been bellowing for the past two years at how MARVELOUS the economy is behaving under President Bush? What gives? Why would an economy, that has been performing as wonderfully as you have been continuously claiming, need any stimulus in the first place?????:laugh2:

[Classact]

Why do you folks from Maine always want to draw the Repubs into the race debate? You know damned well the poor blacks that were fooled by the man to sign sub-prime mortages were the reason the US economy needs stimulation. Let me save you some time... it's all Bush's fault Fanny and Freddy didn't splain it to the folks of color.

[Kathianne]

Why do you folks from Maine always want to draw the Repubs into the race debate? You know damned well the poor blacks that were fooled by the man to sign sub-prime mortages were the reason the US economy needs stimulation. Let me save you some time... it's all Bush's fault Fanny and Freddy didn't splain it to the folks of color.

Where was he dragging blacks into the subprime mess? My guess the racial breakdown of those irresponsible enough to be in the mess crosses racial lines. Meaning, there are more white caught in the problem than blacks. Bet a few Hispanics too. Perhaps even a few Orientals?

[JohnDoe]

Whatever the refund $200 or $500, people are going to use it for the purchases they have already made, like their Damn OIL heating bill, my first bill was $480 that i just got (for 2 months)!

I am uncertain that people will be going out and buying more this time around, but paying their energy bills or Christmas bills this time of year....verses the first rebate it was in August...

jd

[Psychoblues]

Don't kid yourselves. It's more Republican Corporate Welfare and none of it will raise the living standards of a single working person. Believe me. I've seen it before.

[actsnoblemartin]

I think its a complicated issue, I dont want corporate welfare for the 1% of businesses who never need it, but for the 99% of businesses that are real small businesses, im ok with that.

sending jobs overseas, no

bringing in foreigners to do it for half of what americans can do it for , no

letting illegals flood the market with cheap labor, no

Im a very novice on this issue


Don't kid yourselves. It's more Republican Corporate Welfare and none of it will raise the living standards of a single working person. Believe me. I've seen it before.

[red states rule]

RSR... why does the economy NEED stimulation? Haven't you been bellowing for the past two years at how MARVELOUS the economy is behaving under President Bush? What gives? Why would an economy, that has been performing as wonderfully as you have been continuously claiming, need any stimulus in the first place?????:laugh2:

Given how revenue to the US government is at record highs, and how the pork is increasing under the Dem run Congress - it is a perfect time for more tax cuts

The Dems have way to much of our money and we can spend it better then they can

[red states rule]

Whatever the refund $200 or $500, people are going to use it for the purchases they have already made, like their Damn OIL heating bill, my first bill was $480 that i just got (for 2 months)!

I am uncertain that people will be going out and buying more this time around, but paying their energy bills or Christmas bills this time of year....verses the first rebate it was in August...

jd

Yes JD, with more tax cuts, you will get to keep more of your money to spend it as you wish

To bad your party is always wanting to give tax cuts to people who do not pay taxes

[Classact]

Where was he dragging blacks into the subprime mess? My guess the racial breakdown of those irresponsible enough to be in the mess crosses racial lines. Meaning, there are more white caught in the problem than blacks. Bet a few Hispanics too. Perhaps even a few Orientals?Perhaps I was unfair? He was using talking points... the economy was and is roaring along quite fine with the exception of the sub-prime influence. The sub-prime is directly related to race but isn't mentioned on politically correct news reporting... here is a link http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2005/04/racial_disparities_in_home_lending/

The reality is the government responsible for Fanny and Freddy Mac or however you spell it. Prez Bush did brag that more people of color have owned their own homes than any time in history. The sales of homes during this boom did contribute to our service based economy. The absence of sales will damage our service based economy.

But, the largest damage to the economy is the cost of energy and the Democratic Party has seen the price almost double since they have been in the majority in congress. The DP cannot blame the Repubs for blocking their efforts to make gas or heating prices lower because they haven't tried to take action on the issue. They want higher energy prices so the environmentalists will be happy that Alternative Energy can be produced and sold without a loss. If energy prices fall then AE will be abandoned in the free market so the Dems want high energy prices for the polar bears... screw the citizens of America it is about bears and global warming.

[red states rule]

Perhaps I was unfair? He was using talking points... the economy was and is roaring along quite fine with the exception of the sub-prime influence. The sub-prime is directly related to race but isn't mentioned on politically correct news reporting... here is a link http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2005/04/racial_disparities_in_home_lending/

The reality is the government responsible for Fanny and Freddy Mac or however you spell it. Prez Bush did brag that more people of color have owned their own homes than any time in history. The sales of homes during this boom did contribute to our service based economy. The absence of sales will damage our service based economy.

But, the largest damage to the economy is the cost of energy and the Democratic Party has seen the price almost double since they have been in the majority in congress. The DP cannot blame the Repubs for blocking their efforts to make gas or heating prices lower because they haven't tried to take action on the issue. They want higher energy prices so the environmentalists will be happy that Alternative Energy can be produced and sold without a loss. If energy prices fall then AE will be abandoned in the free market so the Dems want high energy prices for the polar bears... screw the citizens of America it is about bears and global warming.

Only 5% of homeowners are late with their house payments, and those with ARM's are being offered refi options

As far as gas prices, Dems promised they would lower prices if they won in 06

What happened?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhIAphdavPU

[Classact]

Only 5% of homeowners are late with their house payments, and those with ARM's are being offered refi options

As far as gas prices, Dems promised they would lower prices if they won in 06

What happened?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhIAphdavPUYou are 100% correct! They like the prices high and their energy bill proves it. They don't mind a little inflation on food because the corn is being diverted with the help of our tax dollars to support farmers selling it for fuel instead of food products... milk, all types of meat and grain products like cereal and bread will be up 10 to 30% as a result of the high gas and corn subsidies. They care about their environmentalist backers and the polar bears more than the citizens. They will demand heating assistance from the government for poor and elderly that are using $8+ natural gas but won't let the Republicans cross the Environmentalists picket line to allow capped natural gas wells on federal parks that could cut that price in half. Go Dems!!!

[retiredman]

Given how revenue to the US government is at record highs, and how the pork is increasing under the Dem run Congress - it is a perfect time for more tax cuts

The Dems have way to much of our money and we can spend it better then they can


so let me get this straight: you are saying that the economy is just fine?

[Hagbard Celine]

How is cutting taxes the same as telling mortgaga holders they have to freeze their rates?

What do Dems want to do to stimulate the economy?

The elements of the package, as described by the campaign:

— Establishing a $30 billion Emergency Housing Crisis Fund to assist states and cities in mitigating the effects of foreclosures: “Her $30 billion fund would provide immediate, time-limited resources to states, cities and community organizations to help prevent unnecessary foreclosures. States and communities could also use the funds to offset the costs associated with vacant properties by supporting efforts like community-level anti-blight programs and helping local housing authorities buy up vacant properties and rent them to working families.”

— Providing $25 billion in emergency energy assistance for families facing skyrocketing heating bills: “The grants will the purchasing power of energy assistance to where it was five years ago. And they will ensure that hardworking families and seniors on fixed incomes will not have to choose between heating their homes, putting food on the table or purchasing prescription drugs this winter.”

— Accelerating $5 billion in energy efficiency and alternative energy investments to jump-start green collar job growth: “The immediate actions that could be part of a 2008 stimulus could include a crash weatherization program to cut home energy costs by up to 20 percent this winter; expanded tax credits to encourage families and businesses to accelerate purchases of hybrids and other low-emission vehicles and to reduce energy costs by purchasing efficient appliances, new windows and other clean, efficient technologies; and acceleration of a Green Building Fund and green collar job training program to put tens of thousands of people to work making schools and other public buildings energy efficient.”

— Investing $10 billion in extending and broadening unemployment insurance for those who are struggling to find work: “By strengthening our unemployment insurance program and extending unemployment insurance for workers who are laid off for extended periods, this effort will empower more Americans to re-enter the labor market in good-paying jobs.”
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0108/7842.html

In other words, nothing for the economy - but plenty of handouts to buy votes

I'd really like to know why everytime you respond to me you bring up dems? I don't give two sh*ts about Dems. Tell it to somebody who cares.

[PostmodernProphet]

government works projects including a half dozen new petroleum refineries.....a score of nuclear power plants.....fifty switchgrass ethanol plants....ten thousand retail distribution centers for biofuels......

instead of going to Mars in twenty years, switch to a completely domestic energy supply in ten.......

[Classact]

government works projects including a half dozen new petroleum refineries.....a score of nuclear power plants.....fifty switchgrass ethanol plants....ten thousand retail distribution centers for biofuels......

instead of going to Mars in twenty years, switch to a completely domestic energy supply in ten.......Imagine this...

Repairing water distribution in the US while providing exceptionally inexpensive electricity. The drought in Atlanta and water issues in the western and southwest indicates there is a looming water crisis. Why not cure two evils with one action?

The concept I submit could be very environmentally friendly and could be done with low expense by utilizing engineer departments and students from state universities, National Guard units mobilized for training, prison inmates and a developed work force within each geographical area for the specific tasks required.

The idea goes like this, water is collected from reservoirs for customers in an environmentally manner right now... water is routinely collected from the bottom of the reservoir through large gravel and sand pits that doesn't disturb creatures that may be living in the reservoir... this results in relatively clear water to be moved to city processing centers and then cleaned for public use.

If water was collected in a similar method in high elevations ranging from the Canadian border and then placed in a pipe network leading to lower elevations to the gulf of Mexico it could be tapped between the reservoir of each reservoir for each city to have it directed to the next reservoir. This would allow all reservoirs to remain completely full at all times. Imagine it like a reservoir is a bathtub and the first bathtub is high altitude in the north from a large river or lake... as it is drained (in the case of the river it can't be drained) it flows into the bathtub at the lower level... there a tap is put in the drain to service the city and then send water to the next tub... the tub stays full at all locations... as the pipeline lowers elevation it develops extreme head pressure, pressure to operate electric generating turbines... as the water enters the reservoir at very high pressure it leaves the reservoir at equal amounts with the community removing necessary water for their community sending the remaining excess water south... The result is electricity production at each reservoir without harming any fish migration or the environment.

Sense the water is drawn off from the same sources already there would be little environmental harm and eternal electricity would result that would be inexpensive... this could allow for hybrid vehicles to become viable further aiding the environment. Because the water would always be flowing at high volume strong PVC or steel pipes could be used without fear of freezing... Jobs, water, energy and entertainment for the prison population.

[red states rule]

You are 100% correct! They like the prices high and their energy bill proves it. They don't mind a little inflation on food because the corn is being diverted with the help of our tax dollars to support farmers selling it for fuel instead of food products... milk, all types of meat and grain products like cereal and bread will be up 10 to 30% as a result of the high gas and corn subsidies. They care about their environmentalist backers and the polar bears more than the citizens. They will demand heating assistance from the government for poor and elderly that are using $8+ natural gas but won't let the Republicans cross the Environmentalists picket line to allow capped natural gas wells on federal parks that could cut that price in half. Go Dems!!!

The point is, Dems, they fools that vote for him, and the liberal media NEVER mention the long list of broken and forgotten promises the Dems made to get elected

The US economy has some issues to work out, but we do not have a crisis as the libe want you believe

After all, they said the tax cuts would cripple the economy 4 years ago, and we were losing in Iraq

Consider the source

[red states rule]

I'd really like to know why everytime you respond to me you bring up dems? I don't give two sh*ts about Dems. Tell it to somebody who cares.

I am pointing out what your party wants top do. More handouts which will do nothing

Sorry if you have a problem with facts - something you would know about working at CNN

[red states rule]

Now the liberal media is in a tizzy the people who pay the taxes will get the tax rebate


Lauer Worries About Tax Rebates for the 'Rich'
By Justin McCarthy | January 18, 2008 - 11:18 ET
Class warfare seeped into the January 18 edition of "Today." Upon interviewing Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson on the Bush administration’s proposed economic stimulus package and rebates, Matt Lauer pitched the liberal "tax cuts for the rich" line inquiring "you're not going to give rebates to the rich here, correct?"Secretary Paulson declined to answer the question saying he does not "want to get ahead of the president."

Just as he did yesterday, Matt Lauer asked again if the media’s gloomy economic news is a "self fulfilling prophecy."

"Do you ever worry that the media, we get the ‘r’ word on our lips, recession and we chant it and that eventually it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, the consumers of TV and the media hear it and they are also consumers of the economy and they spend themselves into a recession or don't spend themselves?"

Secretary Paulson noted that he does "believe that we get a pretty steady dose of more negative news from the media," but he added that he thinks "the evidence is pretty clear."

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/justin-mccarthy/2008/01/18/lauer-worries-about-tax-rebates-rich


Why would it come as a shock that the people who pay the majority of taxes will get the majoirity of tax rebates

Why do libs always want to give tax cuts and tax rebates to people who do not pay taxes?

[manu1959]

so let me get this straight: you are saying that the economy is just fine?

well according to my local news and the dems running for pres and the dems in congress.....the answer is no......the economy sucks.....

and if a dem is elected....and if we only withdraw from iraq.....rasie taxes on the rich and corporations....create more social programs....give all the immigration felons amnesty......

the economy will turn around just like that......

of and the world will love us and terrorist will stop trying to kill anything non islamic...

[red states rule]

well according to my local news and the dems running for pres and the dems in congress.....the answer is no......the economy sucks.....

and if a dem is elected....and if we only withdraw from iraq.....rasie taxes on the rich and corporations....create more social programs....give all the immigration felons amnesty......

the economy will turn around just like that......

of and the world will love us and terrorist will stop trying to kill anything non islamic...

In fact the Dems want to repeal all the Bush tax cuts, and raise some taxes close to the levels they were at in the late 1970's

and we all know what a great economy the US had under Pres Peanut and a Dem run Congress

[manu1959]

In fact the Dems want to repeal all the Bush tax cuts, and raise some taxes close to the levels they were at in the late 1970's

and we all know what a great economy the US had under Pres Peanut and a Dem run Congress

well lets see...the economy sucks because....

gas costs too much and thus everything that depends on gas in turn goes up......the dem congress could cut the tax on gas thus stimulating the economy.....ya right.....

the dollar is weak...so we shouldn't buy foriegn stuff but should encourage foriegners to come here and buy our stuff.....oh wait that is already happening.....nevermind...

if we are short on money we should stop giving it to other countries....not to mention pass billions in pork programs....

no stimulus packages.....suck it up.....no bail outs for subprimers....suck it up.....

ah forget it....these brilliant buisnessmen will simple raise taxes.....ya that will work pay your employees less.....

[red states rule]

well lets see...the economy sucks because....

gas costs too much and thus everything that depends on gas in turn goes up......the dem congress could cut the tax on gas thus stimulating the economy.....ya right.....

the dollar is weak...so we shouldn't buy foriegn stuff but should encourage foriegners to come here and buy our stuff.....oh wait that is already happening.....nevermind...

if we are short on money we should stop giving it to other countries....not to mention pass billions in pork programs....

no stimulus packages.....suck it up.....no bail outs for subprimers....suck it up.....

ah forget it....these brilliant buisnessmen will simple raise taxes.....ya that will work pay your employees less.....

The economy has some issues, but it does not suck

The best way to boost the economy is to make the Bush tax cuts permanent, and increase them at the same time

[manu1959]

The economy has some issues, but it does not suck

The best way to boost the economy is to make the Bush tax cuts permanent, and increase them at the same time

well in every media source i hear they economy is awuful and the only way it can be fixed is to raise taxes and elect democrats......

[red states rule]

well in every media source i hear they economy is awuful and the only way it can be fixed is to raise taxes and elect democrats......

That is the answer the liberal media has to every issue.

I remember the liberal media "reporting" how the Bush tax cuts were going to cause a $500 billion deficit (the deficit never came close), the deficit would grow for years to come (the deficit has dropped more then 50%), would drain vital government programs (the annual budget has grown to nearly $3 trillion) and how a recession was right around the corner (has not happened)

So why would anyone believe what the liberal media tells them?

[manu1959]

That is the answer the liberal media has to every issue.

I remember the liberal media "reporting" how the Bush tax cuts were going to cause a $500 billion deficit (the deficit never came close), the deficit would grow for years to come (the deficit has dropped more then 50%), would drain vital government programs (the annual budget has grown to nearly $3 trillion) and how a recession was right around the corner (has not happened)

So why would anyone believe what the liberal media tells them?

bush bush and the pubs are all liars and the media tells the truth.....

[red states rule]

bush bush and the pubs are all liars and the media tells the truth.....

The gospel according to Keith Olbermann

[manu1959]

The gospel according to Keith Olbermann

watch it every night....he is so smart...and he is never wrong....just like chris mathews.....

[red states rule]

watch it every night....he is so smart...and he is never wrong....just like chris mathews.....

Next thing, you will say Bill did not commit perjury and witness tampering

[manu1959]

Next thing, you will say Bill did not commit perjury and witness tampering

perjury is such a strong word ..... the question was confusing ...... he is from the south ...... sexual realtions are different down there ....... can you link me up to his conviction on perjury and witness tampering ..... besides bush is a bigger liar....he stole two elections and tricked the honest dems into going to war ..... plus he is getting all the money from the oil and is friends with OBL .....

[red states rule]

perjury is such a strong word ..... the question was confusing ...... he is from the south ...... sexual realtions are different down there ....... can you link me up to his conviction on perjury and witness tampering ..... besides bush is a bigger liar....he stole two elections and tricked the honest dems into going to war ..... plus he is getting all the money from the oil and is friends with OBL .....

Hey Jim, MM has a duel account and is posting under manu1959

[manu1959]

Hey Jim, MM has a duel account and is posting under manu1959


damn i was going for TM......:laugh2:

[red states rule]

damn i was going for TM......:laugh2:

Try being a wee bit more irrational and paranoid :laugh2:

[manu1959]

Try being a wee bit more irrational and paranoid :laugh2:

ok i will work on it....:link:

[red states rule]

ok i will work on it....:link:

Try getting your facts from the Democrat Underground, Daily Kos, and Air America

[manu1959]

Try getting your facts from the Democrat Underground, Daily Kos, and Air America

been banned from all those chat rooms....i like the irony of air america given the cias air america gig in laos and cambodia

[red states rule]

been banned from all those chat rooms....i like the irony of air america given the cias air america gig in laos and cambodia

Amazing how the libs love to protect free speech, up until you disagree with them

[manu1959]

Amazing how the libs love to protect free speech, up until you disagree with them

so as long as you agree it is free......

[red states rule]

so as long as you agree it is free......

and according to libs like MM, if you disagree with them you are an enemy of the state

[retiredman]

and according to libs like MM, if you disagree with them you are an enemy of the state


I do not think that you are an enemy of the state because you disagree with me. I think you are an enemy of the state because you admit to not caring about upholding article VI of the constitution.

[red states rule]

I do not think that you are an enemy of the state because you disagree with me. I think you are an enemy of the state because you admit to not caring about upholding article VI of the constitution.

Since I do not give a damn about the comfort of terrorists, to you that makes me an enemy of the state

[Kathianne]

I do not think that you are an enemy of the state because you disagree with me. I think you are an enemy of the state because you admit to not caring about upholding article VI of the constitution.

What if he disagrees with your conclusion regarding waterboarding and Article VI? Reasonable people disagree with your interpretation.

[red states rule]

What if he disagrees with your conclusion regarding waterboarding and Article VI? Reasonable people disagree with your interpretation.

The term "reasonable people" would disqualify MM from your theory

[Kathianne]

The term "reasonable people" would disqualify MM from your theory

Please do me a favor, don't drag me into confrontations. I was trying to discuss a point, which so far Maineman has responded to.

[red states rule]

Please do me a favor, don't drag me into confrontations. I was trying to discuss a point, which so far Maineman has responded to.

Not trying to "drag you in" at all. I am only repsonding to your post

[manu1959]

I do not think that you are an enemy of the state because you disagree with me. I think you are an enemy of the state because you admit to not caring about upholding article VI of the constitution.

so let me see.....i can kill someone that wants to waterboard someone that wants to destroy the very constitution you want upheld.....but i can not waterboard the enemy to prevent the destruction of the people that the constitution was designed to protect ...... this should work out well .....

[red states rule]

so let me see.....i can kill someone that wants to waterboard someone that wants to destroy the very constitution you want upheld.....but i can not waterboard the enemy to prevent the destruction of the people that the constitution was designed to protect ...... this should work out well .....

Welcome to the wonderful and wacky world of liberalism

[retiredman]

so let me see.....i can kill someone that wants to waterboard someone that wants to destroy the very constitution you want upheld.....but i can not waterboard the enemy to prevent the destruction of the people that the constitution was designed to protect ...... this should work out well .....


the constitution is what it is. Either you swear to uphold and defend it or you don't. your choice.

[Kathianne]

the constitution is what it is. Either you swear to uphold and defend it or you don't. your choice.

I agree, though you cannot just say that 'the constitution applies in certain scenarios, because you want it to.

[retiredman]

I agree, though you cannot just say that 'the constitution applies in certain scenarios, because you want it to.

I never do. IMO, waterboarding violates the treaty on torture - and I know you disagree - but RSR is on record as not caring.... he would violate that treaty in a heartbeat, article VI be damned.

[Classact]

well lets see...the economy sucks because....

gas costs too much and thus everything that depends on gas in turn goes up......the dem congress could cut the tax on gas thus stimulating the economy.....ya right.....

the dollar is weak...so we shouldn't buy foriegn stuff but should encourage foriegners to come here and buy our stuff.....oh wait that is already happening.....nevermind...

if we are short on money we should stop giving it to other countries....not to mention pass billions in pork programs....

no stimulus packages.....suck it up.....no bail outs for subprimers....suck it up.....

ah forget it....these brilliant buisnessmen will simple raise taxes.....ya that will work pay your employees less.....Everything that is wrong with the economy is not the Democrats fault but 99.999% is.

The Democrats will not allow exploration for oil in the US... they will not allow large portions of US federal lands to be utilized in any manner that could produce jobs or energy. Large quantities of natural gas are located on federal lands. Democrats will not allow the use of the natural gas and as a result it is over $8 a unit... Mexico and Canada have natural gas at less than $3 a unit and wonder why businesses move to Canada and Mexico as they spend tax dollars to help US citizens heat their homes because the heating costs are high.

Unions, and backing of unions have destroyed the Airline and Automotive industries and have increased the cost while reducing the value when unions were allowed in state and federal government.

Taxing businesses kills business. The tax cost is simply passed along to the citizen when they purchase the finished product. As long as other nations don't tax business then taxing business encourages businesses to move to those countries that don't tax business.

Both parties subsidise farmers for wrong reasons, like corn for ethanol, peanuts, goat wool and more that are merely an exchange for votes.

[red states rule]

here is how Dems will stimulate the economy. A $1 trillion tax increase

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0108/A_tax_attack.html

[Classact]

I never do. IMO, waterboarding violates the treaty on torture - and I know you disagree - but RSR is on record as not caring.... he would violate that treaty in a heartbeat, article VI be damned.Why are you so fascinated with a person getting water-boarded? What does that have to do with stimulus to the economy?

A bunch of rich, smart white guys built some ships and navigated the ships to North America and established some colonies... they killed the former residents that resisted their "rights" to do so. Then they had a war with the richer white guy who made it possible for them to come in the first place and won... They winners then established the rule of laws we live under and every person that has violated a law or treaty since then has been punished. Bull crap! What about the treaties with the American Indians that were violated? What about the superior US army force against a weak Mexican force that established our southern border?

If someone is really concerned about rule of law then they should support giving back everything illegally taken west of the original 13 colonies.

Get back on topic about the economy and stop acting like you are far removed from those who took this land by force against another human owner. If you believe in the rule of law then you should support giving it all back since it was illegally taken, You seem to be trapped in a United Nations dream interlocked with the lyrics of the song Imagine... no borders, no God just everyone living in perfect harmony... duh

[red states rule]

Why are you so fascinated with a person getting water-boarded? What does that have to do with stimulus to the economy?

A bunch of rich, smart white guys built some ships and navigated the ships to North America and established some colonies... they killed the former residents that resisted their "rights" to do so. Then they had a war with the richer white guy who made it possible for them to come in the first place and won... They winners then established the rule of laws we live under and every person that has violated a law or treaty since then has been punished. Bull crap! What about the treaties with the American Indians that were violated? What about the superior US army force against a weak Mexican force that established our southern border?

If someone is really concerned about rule of law then they should support giving back everything illegally taken west of the original 13 colonies.

Get back on topic about the economy and stop acting like you are far removed from those who took this land by force against another human owner. If you believe in the rule of law then you should support giving it all back since it was illegally taken, You seem to be trapped in a United Nations dream interlocked with the lyrics of the song Imagine... no borders, no God just everyone living in perfect harmony... duh

MM is a proud liberal who hates Pres Bush so much - he has to express his blame America first rants wherever he can

[red states rule]

Back to the topic at hand

If Obama tax hike was not enough - here is another huge tax increase wiating for all of us


The trillion dollar tax fight

By: Lisa Lerer
Oct 9, 2007 06:05 AM EST

By now, everyone knows Rep. Charles B. Rangel is poised to introduce the “mother” of all tax reforms, the biggest and most expensive tax code overhaul since 1986. But what they don’t know is how the New York Democrat plans to pay the more than $1 trillion price tag — and that uncertainty is fueling rampant speculation from Capitol Hill to K Street.

The classic Washington guessing game is frustrating anxious corporate lobbyists but amusing others, including the House Ways and Means Committee chairman who started it all. “It is surprising how nervous people get when I use the words ‘fairness’ and ‘equity’ to describe our efforts to simplify the tax code and encourage economic investment,” the New York Democrat told Politico.

The fiscal fortunetellers fall into four categories: Robin Hoods, Goldilockses, Chicken Littles and Scarecrows.

The Robin Hoods predict Rangel will increase taxes on the very rich and expand breaks for the poor. Rangel’s most talked-about goal is to eradicate the alternative minimum tax, expected to hit 23 million high- and middle-income families this year.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1007/6250.html

[Classact]

here is how Dems will stimulate the economy. A $1 trillion tax increase

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0108/A_tax_attack.htmlI don't think borrowing money from other countries to pay for building up our economy is such a great idea. I think we should shut down large portions of discretionary government. End unions in government. Develop domestic energy, all sources of energy.

No tax on business and a minimum tax on all purchases to fund essential government functions.

America should not be around the world influencing other nations if it cannot fund the money given to other nations from earned tax revenues.

Until we develop our own energy and guarantee fair trade we will be in debt to the world and some day the world will collect their debts.

[red states rule]

I don't think borrowing money from other countries to pay for building up our economy is such a great idea. I think we should shut down large portions of discretionary government. End unions in government. Develop domestic energy, all sources of energy.

No tax on business and a minimum tax on all purchases to fund essential government functions.

America should not be around the world influencing other nations if it cannot fund the money given to other nations from earned tax revenues.

Until we develop our own energy and guarantee fair trade we will be in debt to the world and some day the world will collect their debts.


The Dems have the same answer to all problems

Expand handouts to the nonproducers while taxing the hell out of the producers to pay for the handouts

Dems have blocked all attempts to drill and refine our own oil - then whine when gas prices go up

[red states rule]

In reality, the Dems have a plan to stimulate inflation


Liberals' Plan to Stimulate Inflation
Liberals propose to follow the same game plan that gave us stagflation in the 1970s.

Read More...

As success with the military surge in Iraq increasingly belies their claim that the war is already irretrievably lost, liberals have changed the subject from Iraq to the economy and the rising possibility of a recession. Liberal Republicans and Democrats, as usual, prescribe Federal deficit spending and higher taxes on “the rich.”

That is the doctrine of Keynesian economics, which advocates consumer spending as the exclusive highway to full employment and prosperity. According to Keynes, consumer and business savings must be offset by massively increased Federal spending. What the money is spent for doesn’t matter; just flood the market with money created by bookkeeping entries at the Federal Reserve banks.

Keynesian economics failed to end the Depression. Its repetition, as we saw in the bitter experience of Great Society stagflation in the 1970s, discouraged investment in projects of long term value and led to speculations that promised high rates of return in the short-run.

For example, during the 1970s stagflation, is was only marginally profitable to build rental apartments, because the rate of return on those investments was far below the inflation rate. What occurred, instead, was an unprecedented boom in hotel construction, because room rates could be increased every day. By 1980, there was a shortage of rental apartments and an oversupply of hotels.

for the complete article

http://www.thomasbrewton.com/

[Classact]

Think about this... $1 billion dollars is 1,000 million dollars and the President has recommended a economy bost by using $140 billion dollars that is 140 thousand millions...There are only about 150 thousand million workers in America.

Why not give a million dollars to every worker that doesn't have a million dollars already and be done with it?

[red states rule]

Think about this... $1 billion dollars is 1,000 million dollars and the President has recommended a economy bost by using $140 billion dollars that is 140 thousand millions...There are only about 150 thousand million workers in America.

Why not give a million dollars to every worker that doesn't have a million dollars already and be done with it?

All we have to figure out is who is going to pay for it. If the Dems have their way, we will all be on welfare, but hey - we will all have Hillarycare :laugh2:

[Classact]

All we have to figure out is who is going to pay for it. If the Dems have their way, we will all be on welfare, but hey - we will all have Hillarycare :laugh2:Did I do my math wrong or what? That seems like there is enough money being floated on this stimulus to do a check for every legal worker of nearly 3/4 million dollars. If they are only going to give "adults" that pay taxes $800.00 each then that means they plan to give a lot of money to someone else.

My math must be wrong but I think we can't have much more than 150 million workers since we have much less than 325 million citizens... many are retired and many are children and, many work two or more jobs.

Edited to add: My math is wrong: To give 150 million people $1 dollar each would cost $150 million so to give them $1,000 each would cost $150 billion. So the $200 dollars is going to businesses and unemployment I guess.

[red states rule]

Did I do my math wrong or what? That seems like there is enough money being floated on this stimulus to do a check for every legal worker of nearly 3/4 million dollars. If they are only going to give "adults" that pay taxes $800.00 each then that means they plan to give a lot of money to someone else.

My math must be wrong but I think we can't have much more than 150 million workers since we have much less than 325 million citizens... many are retired and many are children and, many work two or more jobs.

You see, if we just give money to the legal workers, then you are a racist. Why should the illegals be left out?

Why not give the money to retired folks as well. Do you want to snub the old folks?

We can't forget about children either. We would have to give them a check so they can buy that new vido game and maybe set aside some for college

And if folks are working more then one job - why should they get only one check? Why not a check for each job they are holding?

This is how the left will pick apart your idea.