Question for those who would retreat

[Dilloduck]

How do you think the region will look if America withdraws all it's troops and what will be the consequences for America ?

[manu1959]

How do you think the region will look if America withdraws all it's troops and what will be the consequences for America ?

it will look like iran......the consequenses will be that america will need to withdraw all its troops from around the world as we will need them

[SassyLady]

can't answer - wouldn't retreat. Use a new strategy, but no retreat.

[Dilloduck]

can't answer - wouldn't retreat. Use a new strategy, but no retreat.

Turkey might like a chunk of the north--guess the Kurds could kiss thier asses goodbye.

[SassyLady]

I'd rather fight the fight we are fighting now than to retreat/withdraw and have another power step in and gain a foothold (Iran) and then have to come back and deal with the new alliance that could be forged.

[Dilloduck]

I didnt think that the cut and runners could think this far ahead.

[SassyLady]

I didnt think that the cut and runners could think this far ahead.

They don't think..........OCA has a word for them. They are obstructionists!!! Don't ask them for solutions.....they can't rationally come up with any ........ their modus operandi is to just refute anything we come up with! Easier that way........oh, and refuting sources is their main game play.

[Dilloduck]

They don't think..........OCA has a word for them. They are obstructionists!!! Don't ask them for solutions.....they can't rationally come up with any ........ their modus operandi is to just refute anything we come up with! Easier that way........oh, and refuting sources is their main game play.

I think they want the US to fall back in with the rest of the world and act all "sophisticated". It's just plan rude to be #1. They have no concept of what that will do to life in America.

[SassyLady]

I think they want the US to fall back in with the rest of the world and act all "sophisticated". It's just plan rude to be #1. They have no concept of what that will do to life in America.


I think you hit the nail on the head. It's just not PC to be the most powerful nation on Earth!!! We should subjugate ourselves to the NWO. Ugh!!!

I know I must be going to hell.....my compassion just doesn't extend to every other human being in the world.

I'm not the type to turn my cheek.......if you slap me you better be ready to get smacked. And then you can decide if you want to turn the other cheek and be the peacknik.

[Gaffer]

If we leave:

iran will begin supplying the shites with weapons and manpower. Saudi arabia will begin suppying the sunni's with weapons.The whole region will erupt into a slaughter and the gulf will be unusable for shipping.All the countries in the region will become involved in the conflict which iran will eventually win. The areas will be divided up into sunni and shea regions with iran as the central point of power. Much like the old ottoman empire.

The kurds will be slaughtered and turkey pressed into the growing caliphate of iran. Oil prices will skyrocket. Southern europe will then be under immediate threat and well within range of missiles. Which could well be tipped with nukes withing a few years.

All muslims will then be called on for jihad throughout the world. Any that don't respond will be considered kaffer and will be killed like all the infidels.

That's what happens if we leave. Its all written down as a manifesto. Its posted below.




Expert provides Al-Qaeda's timeline
This should put a dent in the short-sighted assertions we get from the left that Islamic terrorism is all our fault.

Expert provides Al-Qaeda's timeline
Donna Jacobs, The Ottawa Citizen
Published: Monday, September 18, 2006

In an article published in the current International Journal of Intelligence and Counterintelligence, Carleton University security expert Martin Rudner presents an Islamic terrorist timeline for the next 20 years.

On al-Qaeda's conquest calendar, the beginning of "total war on non-believers" begins seven years from now. And it ends with Islamic victory in 2020.

Ask Mr. Rudner, director of Carleton's Canadian Centre of Intelligence and Security Studies, how he assesses this declared march to world domination.

"I take it very seriously," he says. "Obviously."

So, too, does Jordanian journalist Fouad Hussein, who publicized the timeline based on his talks and correspondence with al-Qaeda members. "Al-Qaeda makes no compromises," says Mr. Hussein. He published his findings in the book al-Zarqawi -- al-Qaida's Second Generation a year before Mr. al-Zarqawi's death in June in a U.S. air strike in Iraq.

Al-Qaeda's seven-stage plan:

Stage 1: Awakening. Strategic time line: Sept. 11, 2001. Tactical Objective: Provoke U.S. attack on Muslims, galvanize jihadism.

Stage 2: Opening Eyes. Time: 2003-2006. Objective: Force West on defensive.

Stage 3: Arising and Standing Up. Time: 2007-2010. Objective: Assault on Turkey and Israel.

Stage 4: Downfall of Apostate Muslim regimes. Time: 2010-2013. Objective: Saudi Arabia, Jordan, oil producers.

Stage 5: Declaration of Caliphate. Time: 2013-2016. Objective: Mobilization of Muslim forces.

Stage 6: Total Confrontation.

Time: 2013-2020. Tactic: Total war on non-believers by 1.5 billion Muslims.

Stage 7: Definite Victory. Time: 2020. Objective: A Muslim world.

In a video al-Qaeda released to celebrate the fifth anniversary of its 9/11 attacks, Ayman al-Zawahiri, Osama bin Laden's deputy, warned that al-Qaeda would attack Israel and the Gulf Arab states next.

Mr. Rudner notes that Stage 3 "explicitly" targets energy: "It tells us where they think they are.

"And, by the way," he adds, "they're on target."

Whether a literal or inspirational timeline, the jihadists see it as "a viable strategy to bring about their victory.

Mr. Rudner's analysis:

Stage 2: Opening Eyes. "Yes, on the defensive is exactly where they've put us.

"To me, the NDP resolution (passed nine days ago in Quebec City) that asks for Canada to leave Afghanistan reflects the fact that we're being pressed by the Taliban. I think it reflects a fear of casualties, and also this notion that Canadians should not be involved in doing counterviolence.

NDP leader Jack Layton "would probably say 'Let's offer enhanced development assistance or do peacekeeping'." But that is the very strategy that al-Qaeda detests, says Mr. Rudner. The jihadists regard western aid as bribery, corruption and a perversion of Islamic values.

Stage 3: Arising. In the past three weeks, al-Qaeda has bombed Turkish resorts, targeting Turkey's important tourism industry. They have already bombed banks, synagogues and the British consulate in Istanbul.

Mr. Rudner observes that Israeli and Palestinian Authority sources say there's evidence that al-Qaeda is trying to organize terror attacks on them to disrupt peace talks. Mr. Hussein says al-Qaeda will select Jordan for attack.

Stage 4: Downfall. "It's happening as we speak," Mr. Rudner says. "The Taliban are now struggling to bring down an apostate regime in Afghanistan." An apostate regime runs by man's law -- not by God's law. "Whether you're modern or traditional, republican or military, you're an apostate.

"The fighting in Iraq is not only between the Baathists and the Coalition, but between al-Qaeda and everybody else," Mr. Rudner says. Al-Qaeda has explicitly targeted the Shia-led government. "They say things about the Shia that I think even Hitler would have been reluctant to say about Jews, horrendously racist kinds of language -- 'these are serpents, snakes.'

"When al-Qaeda says today they're attacking the Arab Gulf, what they mean is that they could make the West walk and freeze" by depriving them of fuel for their cars and furnaces, Mr. Rudner says. "Or in Osama's words: 'I could bleed America bankrupt'."

How shaky are these oil-rich targets -- Saudi Arabia, Jordan, United Arab Emirates, Kuwait, Qatar, Yemen, Libya, Algeria and Iran? Does al-Qaeda really expect to destroy them in four years?

"They are shaky in the sense that, as the dominos begin to fall and al-Qaeda does target oil, and does push the West onto the defensive, then the ability of those regimes to sustain themselves is grossly weakened.

"Saudi Arabia without oil is what? UAR without tourism and oil? Imagine terrorist attacks on those beautiful hotels going up in Dubai where people are prepared to spend $1,000 a night. You tell them they could be blown up in the market tomorrow morning, and they're gone.

"Bin Laden sees these governments as rickety shacks. You kick in the door and the structure collapses.

"I'm not justifying the shah of Iran," Mr. Rudner says. "But as the rug was pulled from under him, his regime collapsed. Now al-Qaeda plans the same fate for Egypt or Saudi Arabia or Jordan." Al-Qaeda wants us to "pull out of a robust society like that of Egypt, then they give it a couple of good kicks."

Mr. Hussein says al-Qaeda will target the U.S. economy with cyber-terrorism.

Stage 5: The Caliphate. "When they have knocked down all the Muslim countries and these governments no longer exist, they can mobilize: Hezbollah-type forces, standing armies and terror forces," says Mr. Rudner. "Now they can fight any kind of warfare."

Stage 6: Total Confrontation. "Now," Mr. Rudner says, "we go at Dar ul-harb. Dar ul-harb means the world of the sword -- the world of violence, of chaos, of moral degeneration -- in other words, us. And that's how we're seen.

"They intend to use all military means" to defeat the West and to replace it with global Dar ul-Islam -- the world of Islam, of the Caliphate, of Taliban-style rule under strict shariah law.

"And it's not just the West," Mr. Rudner says. "It's India and China."

It sounds insane.

Mr. Rudner replies: "If Osama bin Laden were listening to us now, he would say: 'Give me all the oil in the Middle East, all the populations of the Middle East and, boy, I could take on the rest of the world.'

"He would say: 'Imagine the weakness of your economy when we kick the trade from under you, when we deprive you of energy resources, when we hit your financial resources, when we stop depositing our foreign currency with you.'

"And he'd be saying, 'We're robust. We have all the oil, all the money, all the troops'."

Stage 7: Definite Victory. How could al-Qaeda mobilize westernized Islamic populations who are hostile to rigid, violent Taliban-style regimes?

"I don't think they do mobilize these populations," Mr. Rudner says. "But imagine a 'Grand Afghanistan'. You simply enact a fatwa saying that every male aged 14 to 40 must show up in the village square at a certain hour to receive military training and their gun. Everybody does. The alternative is death.

"We're describing how they see it," he says. "First of all, no, they will not win. We, the West, will not fragment, panic and run away. Nor will moderate and sometimes not-so-moderate Arab and Muslim regimes. They're going to defend themselves and we are going to defend ourselves."

Alliances will form -- some unusual. "They already have. Among our major sources of intelligence on al-Qaeda over the past five years are the Syrians -- not out of love for Canada, the United States and West, but because they recognize they are a target of the (radical) Muslim Brotherhood. In Iran, likewise.

"The terrorists intend to harm us and they will try," Mr. Rudner says. "They are already active in a range of activities that hurt our society. We know they've targeted trains, civil aviation and critical infrastructure."

The RCMP, he says, have at least 20 active terrorism investigations under way.

"The Canadian public finds it very difficult to accept the notion that there's evil. These people are evil in the sense that their values are utterly antithetical to ours -- and they want to impose them on us by force.

"Canadians think that if we could correct the root cause, we could correct this and it would disappear. Sorry. It's not sociopathy or psychopathy.

"You have to persuade the public that this is not posturing. Take a look at what they (terrorists) are really telling us. They mean it."

Makes it pretty clear that the Islamists are at war with us

[Grumplestillskin]

Iraq would have a civil war. About it. The consequences for America would probably be similar to what they were before the war (which was bugger all), although I would say there will be thousands - if not 10s of thousands - who now hate the US, whereas previously they either liked or were ambivilous to the country...Of course there will be some who like America more, but not as many who now hate her.......

[Dilloduck]

Iraq would have a civil war. About it. The consequences for America would probably be similar to what they were before the war (which was bugger all), although I would say there will be thousands - if not 10s of thousands - who now hate the US, whereas previously they either liked or were ambivilous to the country...Of course there will be some who like America more, but not as many who now hate her.......

Shit Grump------your big worry is that we might lose the miss congeniality award ???????? :puke3:

[SassyLady]

Shit Grump------your big worry is that we might lose the miss congeniality award ???????? :puke3:

This is what happens when we teach our children that there are no losers or winners.

My husband's favorite quote about competition is:

"Show me a GOOD loser and I'll show you a LOSER".

[Grumplestillskin]

Shit Grump------your big worry is that we might lose the miss congeniality award ???????? :puke3:

Did I say that?

[Gunny]

Iraq would have a civil war. About it. The consequences for America would probably be similar to what they were before the war (which was bugger all), although I would say there will be thousands - if not 10s of thousands - who now hate the US, whereas previously they either liked or were ambivilous to the country...Of course there will be some who like America more, but not as many who now hate her.......

Simplistic and naive assessment, at best.

And the same people who hate the US now hated us before we invaded Iraq. It amounts to penis envy.

[Grumplestillskin]

Simplistic and naive assessment, at best.

And the same people who hate the US now hated us before we invaded Iraq. It amounts to penis envy.

Do you want times and dates of civil war battles? Probably re those hating you before, just that there are a lot more of them now. I doubt the dude who lost his little kid to "collateral damage" gives two shits about America's "penis", only that America is responsible for his/her death...

[avatar4321]

Iraq would have a civil war. About it. The consequences for America would probably be similar to what they were before the war (which was bugger all), although I would say there will be thousands - if not 10s of thousands - who now hate the US, whereas previously they either liked or were ambivilous to the country...Of course there will be some who like America more, but not as many who now hate her.......

I think you really believe that, but it's really naive. If we left Iraq there wouldnt be a civil war, there would be a regional war. Iran would invade Iraq. Saudi Arabia would counter. Turkey would try to claim kurdish territory and im sure the Kurds would do their best to protect themselves from all three groups. Syria would likely move as well.

In fact, the only state that might not be involved would be Israel... Which might be rather Ironic.

[Gaffer]

Do you want times and dates of civil war battles? Probably re those hating you before, just that there are a lot more of them now. I doubt the dude who lost his little kid to "collateral damage" gives two shits about America's "penis", only that America is responsible for his/her death...

Times and dates would be good.

The only collateral damage going on in iraq right now is what the al queda and iranian thugs cause. along with the execution squads. They are not getting recruits from the population that weren't already available to them. islamist don't need the death of a child to hate Americans.

[Pale Rider]

How do you think the region will look if America withdraws all it's troops and what will be the consequences for America ?

China would SHIT! Because we're doing their dirty work right now. We're a deflection in Iraq for islamo-jihadists hitting other places on earth. If we pull out, then the jihadists will have an entire region, oil rich, to train and plan new attacks on "infidels"... "us". Let 'em. There's too many whinny, pencil necked, slack jawed, mouth breathing liberals in this county that think if we leave, everything will "MAGICALLY" be better. They're so full of shit their breath smells like a turd, but I guess 9/11 wasn't enough for them. They're going to have to see a nuke set off here and MILLIONS dead before they'll GET THE FUCKING IDEA!

But China is soon, if not now, the biggest consumer of oil in the world. Let them go over there with their BILLIONS of troops and do some fighting. They've got more of an interest in the middle east than anyone as far as I see it.

[avatar4321]

China would SHIT! Because we're doing their dirty work right now. We're a deflection from in Iraq for islamo-jihadists hitting other places on earth. If we pull out, then the jihadists will have an entire region, oil rich, to train and plan new attacks on "infidels"... "us". Let 'em. There's too many whinny, pencil necked, slack jawed, mouth breathing liberals in this county that think if we leave, everything will "MAGICALLY" be better. They're so full of shit their breath smells like a turd, but I guess 9/11 wasn't enough for them. They're going to have to see a nuke set off here and MILLIONS dead before they'll GET THE FUCKING IDEA!

But China is soon, if not now, the biggest consumer of oil in the world. Let them go over there with their BILLIONS of troops and do some fighting. They've got more of an interest in the middle east than anyone as far as I see it.

Im not sure a nuclear blast would convince them. In fact, Im sure the Democrats would try to act as though it was President Bush's fault.

[Grumplestillskin]

I think you really believe that, but it's really naive. If we left Iraq there wouldnt be a civil war, there would be a regional war. Iran would invade Iraq. Saudi Arabia would counter. Turkey would try to claim kurdish territory and im sure the Kurds would do their best to protect themselves from all three groups. Syria would likely move as well.

In fact, the only state that might not be involved would be Israel... Which might be rather Ironic.

Iran, Saudi and Turkey would not move at all - unless the fighting spilled over into their territory. How is it naive? Absolutley there would be a civil war. In fact, most in the know already say the place is in a state of civil war...

[Grumplestillskin]

Times and dates would be good.

Sorry, can't see that far into the future.


The only collateral damage going on in iraq right now is what the al queda and iranian thugs cause. along with the execution squads. They are not getting recruits from the population that weren't already available to them. islamist don't need the death of a child to hate Americans.

Insurgents are not causing collateral damage, they are murdering. I'm not talking about Islamists hating America, that is a foregone conclusion. I'm talking about your everyday, average Muslim.

[avatar4321]

Iran, Saudi and Turkey would not move at all - unless the fighting spilled over into their territory. How is it naive? Absolutley there would be a civil war. In fact, most in the know already say the place is in a state of civil war...

You dont think they would move? based on what? We already have the Saudi's saying that if Iran is going to act in Iraq they will too. We know Turkey will jump at the chance for the Kurdish lands they think is theirs anyway. Syria does just about anything Iran wants them to do.

[Grumplestillskin]

You dont think they would move? based on what? We already have the Saudi's saying that if Iran is going to act in Iraq they will too. We know Turkey will jump at the chance for the Kurdish lands they think is theirs anyway. Syria does just about anything Iran wants them to do.

Turkey would only be interested in the Kurds if the Iraqi-based kurds start trying to take over their land and try and hook up with Turkish kurds. Turkey has no interest in gaining any land in Iraq.

Iran might become involved if the shi'ites start getting the shit kicked out of them by the sunni's, which is doubtful as shi'ites outnumber them. Iran has far too many problems of its own to become directly involved.

Saudi Arabia's royal family are a bunch of pussies, and their armed forces are crap. If it spills over to their border, I can see them involved. Outsida that, nada...

[Dilloduck]

Iran, Saudi and Turkey would not move at all - unless the fighting spilled over into their territory. How is it naive? Absolutley there would be a civil war. In fact, most in the know already say the place is in a state of civil war...

How is it naive? Because it's not a civil war as much as it is a sectarian and tribal war. The sects and tribes are not impressed with artificially placed borders and ths war as already crossed boundries. Canavar would be happy to tell you all about it.

[GW in Ohio]

For those who are predicting the shit will hit the fan if we pull out of Iraq, here is a news bulletin.....

The shit has already hit the fan.

The Middle East is on fire with sectarian hatred and murder. These assholes are basically crazy. They think Allah smiles on them when they blow up civilians and children.

If we pulled out of the Middle East and left the region to sort things out for itself, I can't really say what would happen. But it can't be any worse than what's happening now. There would be a power struggle within the region. But there's a power struggle going on now.

I say, get our people out of harm's way and let these assholes sort things out for themselves.

Maybe Iran will dominate the region, but you have to remember that Iran is full of Shiites and the rest of the Middle East, with the exception of Iraq, is Sunni. So Iran's power will only extend so far.

Maybe the Saudi Arabian monarchy will be overthrown. So let it happen. Maybe that's for the best.

[avatar4321]

For those who are predicting the shit will hit the fan if we pull out of Iraq, here is a news bulletin.....

The shit has already hit the fan.

The Middle East is on fire with sectarian hatred and murder. These assholes are basically crazy. They think Allah smiles on them when they blow up civilians and children.

If we pulled out of the Middle East and left the region to sort things out for itself, I can't really say what would happen. But it can't be any worse than what's happening now. There would be a power struggle within the region. But there's a power struggle going on now.

I say, get our people out of harm's way and let these assholes sort things out for themselves.

Maybe Iran will dominate the region, but you have to remember that Iran is full of Shiites and the rest of the Middle East, with the exception of Iraq, is Sunni. So Iran's power will only extend so far.

Maybe the Saudi Arabian monarchy will be overthrown. So let it happen. Maybe that's for the best.

We have a security interest in the middle east. Maybe it would turn out better if we pulled out and let them kill each other. But i think chances are high that we would have to go back in at some point. I dont think it would be wise to do nothing and hope things work out for the best. I think it would be better if we made things work out for the best.

[GW in Ohio]

avatar: We need to keep in mind that, while we may have economic and security interests in the Middle East, we don't own the Middle East. The region is full of autonomous nations. They may be governed by murderous assholes who think they have a mandate from Allah to kill other people, but they're still autonomous nations.

While we may have the baddest, kick-ass-est military on earth, we can't just invade or intervene in other countries whenever we think our interests are at stake. Acting in that kind of arrogant, high-handed fashion will continue to turn much of the rest of the world against us.

Despite what some people might think, we do have to give a shit what other countries think of us. We can't conduct international affairs with a policy of, "Screw you. Don't mess with us or you'll get what Iraq got." That's been the Bush foreign policy for 6 years and it's made us a lot of enemies.

We can't afford to make enemies. (Yes, I know there are butt-munchers like the al Qaeda clowns out there, who will hate our guts no matter what we do. I'm talking about the moderate elements in the Muslim world and the third world. We can't afford to alienate them; it will eventually bring us down.)

[Dilloduck]

avatar: We need to keep in mind that, while we may have economic and security interests in the Middle East, we don't own the Middle East. The region is full of autonomous nations. They may be governed by murderous assholes who think they have a mandate from Allah to kill other people, but they're still autonomous nations.

While we may have the baddest, kick-ass-est military on earth, we can't just invade or intervene in other countries whenever we think our interests are at stake. Acting in that kind of arrogant, high-handed fashion will continue to turn much of the rest of the world against us.

Despite what some people might think, we do have to give a shit what other countries think of us. We can't conduct international affairs with a policy of, "Screw you. Don't mess with us or you'll get what Iraq got." That's been the Bush foreign policy for 6 years and it's made us a lot of enemies.

We can't afford to make enemies. (Yes, I know there are butt-munchers like the al Qaeda clowns out there, who will hate our guts no matter what we do. I'm talking about the moderate elements in the Muslim world and the third world. We can't afford to alienate them; it will eventually bring us down.)


ohhhhhhhhhhh I thought you WERE talking about al quaeda !!

[manu1959]

avatar: We need to keep in mind that, while we may have economic and security interests in the Middle East, we don't own the Middle East. The region is full of autonomous nations. They may be governed by murderous assholes who think they have a mandate from Allah to kill other people, but they're still autonomous nations.

While we may have the baddest, kick-ass-est military on earth, we can't just invade or intervene in other countries whenever we think our interests are at stake. Acting in that kind of arrogant, high-handed fashion will continue to turn much of the rest of the world against us.

Despite what some people might think, we do have to give a shit what other countries think of us. We can't conduct international affairs with a policy of, "Screw you. Don't mess with us or you'll get what Iraq got." That's been the Bush foreign policy for 6 years and it's made us a lot of enemies.

We can't afford to make enemies. (Yes, I know there are butt-munchers like the al Qaeda clowns out there, who will hate our guts no matter what we do. I'm talking about the moderate elements in the Muslim world and the third world. We can't afford to alienate them; it will eventually bring us down.)


i don't disagree but these same enemies during clintons eight years seemed to hate us, i left out all the russian french spanish and british attacks:

1993

January 25: Mir Aimal Kansi, a Pakistani, fires an AK-47 assault rifle into cars waiting at a stoplight in front of the Central Intelligence Agency headquarters, killing two and injuring three others, see FBI Ten Most Wanted Fugitives.

February 26: World Trade Center bombing kills six and injures over 1000 people, by coalition of five groups: Jamaat Al-Fuqra'/Gamaat Islamiya/Hamas/Islamic Jihad/National Islamic Front,[33] see FBI Most Wanted Terrorists, FBI Ten Most Wanted Fugitives, Ramzi Yousef.

March 20: IRA bomb in Warrington kills two children (See Warrington Bomb Attacks).

June: Failed New York City landmark bomb plot, see FBI Most Wanted Terrorists

1994

March 1: In the Brooklyn Bridge Shooting, Rashid Baz kills a Hasidic seminary student and wounds 4 on the Brooklyn Bridge in New York City in response to the Cave of the Patriarchs massacre.[35]
July 26: Israeli Embassy Attack in London and a Jewish charity are car-bombed, wounding 20. Attributed by Britain, Argentina, and Israel to Hezbollah.
December 11: A small bomb explodes on board Philippine Airlines Flight 434, killing a Japanese businessman. Authorities found out that Ramzi Yousef planted the bomb to test it for his planned terrorist attack, see FBI Most Wanted Terrorists, FBI Ten Most Wanted Fugitives
December 24: Air France Flight 8969 is hijacked by GIA members who planned to crash the plane on Paris but didn't succeed.

1995

Wreckage of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City following the April 19 bombing. January 6: Oplan Bojinka plot to bomb eleven U.S. airliners is discovered on a laptop computer in a Manila, Philippines apartment by authorities after an apartment fire occurred in the apartment, by Jemaah Islamiyah/Konsojaya/Abu Sayyaf Group/Ramzi Yousef/Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, see FBI Most Wanted Terrorists

March 8: Terrorists in Karachi, Pakistan, armed with automatic rifles, murdered two American consulate employees and wounded a third as they traveled in the consulate shuttle bus. See Rewards for Justice.

April 19: Oklahoma City bombing kills 168 people, 19 of them children; the most deadly act of domestic terrorism in the United States to date.

October 9: An Amtrak Sunset Limited train is derailed by anti-government saboteurs near Palo Verde, Arizona. One person is killed and 78 are injured.

November 13: Bombing of OPM-SANG building in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia kills seven

November 19: Bombing of Egyptian Embassy in Islamabad, Pakistan kills 19.

1996
February 25 - March 4: A series of four suicide bombings in Israel leave 60 dead and 284 wounded within ten days.

June 25: Khobar Towers bombing -- In all, 19 U.S. servicemen and one Saudi were killed and 372 wounded, by Hizballah Al-Hijaz (Saudi Hizballah) with Iranian support, see FBI Most Wanted Terrorists

July 27: Centennial Olympic Park bombing, killing one and wounding 111.

1997

Israeli settlers spray pesticides on grapevines in two Palestinian villages, destroying up to 17,000 metric tons of grapes.[17]

February 24: An armed man opens fire on tourists at an observation deck atop the Empire State Building in New York City, United States, killing a Danish national and wounding visitors from the United States, Argentina, Switzerland and France before turning the gun on himself. A handwritten note carried by the gunman claims this was a punishment attack against the "enemies of Palestine".

November 17: Luxor Massacre – Islamist gunmen attack tourists in Luxor, Egypt, killing 62 and injuring 24 people, most of them European and Japanese vacationers.

1998

August 7: U.S. embassy bombings in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania and Nairobi, Kenya, killing 225 people and injuring more than 4,000, by al-Qaeda, see FBI Most Wanted Terrorists

1999
January 3: Gunmen open fire on Shi'a Muslims worshipping in an Islamabad mosque, killing 16 people injuring 25.

April 20: Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold kill twelve students and a teacher and wound 24 others in the Columbine High School massacre. (Note: this may be commonly considered a general massacre and thus included in the List of massacres, but it also followed death threats on the website of Harris – an attempt to terrorize.)

December: Jordanian authorities foil a plot to bomb US and Israeli tourists in Jordan and pick up 28 suspects as part of the 2000 millennium attack plots

December 14: Ahmed Ressam is arrested on the United States–Canada border in Port Angeles, Washington; he confessed to planning to bomb the Los Angeles International Airport as part of the 2000 millennium attack plots

December 24: Indian Airlines Flight 814 from Kathmandu, Nepal to Delhi, India is hijacked. One passenger is killed and some hostages are released. After negotiations between the Taliban and the Indian government, the last of the remaining hostages on board Flight 814 are released in exchange for release of four terrorists.

2000

The last of the 2000 millennium attack plots fails, as the boat meant to bomb USS The Sullivans sinks.

October 12: USS Cole bombing kills 17 US sailors and wounds 40 off the port coast of Aden, Yemen, by al-Qaeda, see FBI Most Wanted Terrorists, the Buffalo Six Lackawanna Cell.[41]

[Grumplestillskin]

How is it naive? Because it's not a civil war as much as it is a sectarian and tribal war. The sects and tribes are not impressed with artificially placed borders and ths war as already crossed boundries. Canavar would be happy to tell you all about it.

Same thing. Nothing naive at all.

[Dilloduck]

Same thing. Nothing naive at all.

Your claiming a sectarian war is the same as a civil war. Then why are the Iranians backing the Shiites?

[Grumplestillskin]

Your claiming a sectarian war is the same as a civil war. Then why are the Iranians backing the Shiites?

How many Iranians troops are on the ground? And what is the difference between a sectarian war and a civil war?

[Pale Rider]

Insurgents are not causing collateral damage, they are murdering. I'm not talking about Islamists hating America, that is a foregone conclusion. I'm talking about your everyday, average Muslim.

Ya know what grump.... the "everyday, average muslim" can KISS MY ASS!!!

When they start CONDEMING, OPENLY, and LOUDLY, NON-STOP, the actions of the jihadists, THEN maybe I'll give a FUCK what they think.

[Grumplestillskin]

Ya know what grump.... the "everyday, average muslim" can KISS MY ASS!!!

When they start CONDEMING, OPENLY, and LOUDLY, NON-STOP, the actions of the jihadists, THEN maybe I'll give a FUCK what they think.

They probably feel the same way about you...:eek:
How do you know that they do not condemn loudly and non-stop? You can't trust the MSM to report it, right?

[Gaffer]

How many Iranians troops are on the ground? And what is the difference between a sectarian war and a civil war?

They captured at least eight and killed a bunch more. who knows how many more are as yet unreported.

There is a sectarian war between shite's and sunni's that is going on. Two groups of the same religion fighting it out. Not attempting to over throw the government, which is what a civil war is all about. They each want to have a major say in the government but not over throw it. Therefore its NOT a civil war.

[GW in Ohio]

It's not a civil war in Iraq.........?

Oh. Jesus, the tortured reasoning you use to arrive at that conclusion.....

You ought to be booked on a charge of assault and battery on the the truth.

It's not a civil war in Iraq, and up is down, and George W. Bush is a brilliant Commander in Chief. :dance: :salute: :dance:

[manu1959]

It's not a civil war in Iraq.........?

Oh. Jesus, the tortured reasoning you use to arrive at that conclusion.....

You ought to be booked on a charge of assault and battery on the the truth.

It's not a civil war in Iraq, and up is down, and George W. Bush is a brilliant Commander in Chief. :dance: :salute: :dance:

if it was a civil war why is the north not at war?

anyway, there are several wars going on:

a religous war similar to northern ireland catholic protestant gig
a criminal war, simply crime
a political war, bathists trying to regain power similarto eta vs spain
a mercenary war, outsiders, iran, al queda, syrian etc.. vs the coalition

so i guess this makes the president brilliant

[Gaffer]

As usual manu has it right on the money.

[trobinett]

It's not a civil war in Iraq.........?

Oh. Jesus, the tortured reasoning you use to arrive at that conclusion.....

You ought to be booked on a charge of assault and battery on the the truth.

It's not a civil war in Iraq, and up is down, and George W. Bush is a brilliant Commander in Chief. :dance: :salute: :dance:


Keep twisting the truth GW, at some point I'm sure it will fit your perspective of the world. The sad thing? It won't be the TRUTH........:read:

Sweet dreams..................